- 4 days ago
John and Chino examine the final months of Hobart Freeman's life, tracing how divine-healing doctrine, positive confession theology, and doomsday expectations collided with physical reality. As Freeman's health visibly deteriorated, Faith Assembly members were told healing had already occurred "at Calvary," even as legal pressure, media scrutiny, and internal fractures intensified. The episode walks through Freeman's last sermons, his self-identification with biblical deliverers, and the psychological mechanisms used to keep followers committed as contradictions mounted.
The discussion exposes how faith-healing systems respond when leaders themselves are not healed, revealing the emotional, spiritual, and ethical consequences for congregations trapped inside closed belief structures. This episode highlights the human cost of suppressing reality, the dangers of coercive fasting and confession practices, and why these patterns continue to reappear across modern charismatic movements.
CHAPTER LIST
00:00 Introduction
01:54 Doomsday expectations and divine healing culture
06:50 Freeman’s preaching schedule and declining health
10:02 Legal pressure, deaths, and media scrutiny
15:29 “Comfort for Troubled Times” and Romans 8
19:36 Contradictions of faith healing and visible illness
23:41 Cult psychology and the doctrine of “the squeeze”
27:05 Positive confession versus medical reality
31:29 Salvation, healing, and suppressed doubts
36:30 Church-wide fast and ethical consequences
52:29 The final night and unanswered expectations
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
The discussion exposes how faith-healing systems respond when leaders themselves are not healed, revealing the emotional, spiritual, and ethical consequences for congregations trapped inside closed belief structures. This episode highlights the human cost of suppressing reality, the dangers of coercive fasting and confession practices, and why these patterns continue to reappear across modern charismatic movements.
CHAPTER LIST
00:00 Introduction
01:54 Doomsday expectations and divine healing culture
06:50 Freeman’s preaching schedule and declining health
10:02 Legal pressure, deaths, and media scrutiny
15:29 “Comfort for Troubled Times” and Romans 8
19:36 Contradictions of faith healing and visible illness
23:41 Cult psychology and the doctrine of “the squeeze”
27:05 Positive confession versus medical reality
31:29 Salvation, healing, and suppressed doubts
36:30 Church-wide fast and ethical consequences
52:29 The final night and unanswered expectations
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00:30Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:00:40at william-branham.org, and with me I have my co-host, researcher, minister, and friend,
00:00:46Cheno Ross, pastor and the voice of the understanding scripture and truth by Cheno D. Ross YouTube
00:00:51channel.
00:00:53Cheno, it's good to be back and to talk through the last moments of Hobart Freeman's life.
00:00:59I think this gives a special insight to people who are in a group like this.
00:01:05They build up to this expectation that the leader is going to carry them through to the
00:01:09other side.
00:01:10Well, what happens when the leader doesn't?
00:01:12And that's really where this gets – it's all too familiar for me.
00:01:17I think back to the Branham religion, the moments leading up to his death.
00:01:22I'm certain that people thought, well, oh my gosh, what's going to happen?
00:01:25All of the things that were prophesied that we would be part of, is all of that in question
00:01:30now?
00:01:30Do I question the whole thing?
00:01:32So there had to be this moment in time where everybody's just re-evaluating what it is
00:01:37they believe and what they were told.
00:01:39And then, as we'll get into in future podcasts, this takes a whole new direction when people
00:01:45kind of bury deeper after the event happens.
00:01:48So we'll get into that.
00:01:49But right now, this is a critical snapshot in time for a cult who is, A, I don't know
00:01:58if you would frame it like this, but in my opinion, it was a doomsday cult.
00:02:02They were building up to the doomsday.
00:02:04B, they were a divine healing cult, much like what I came out of.
00:02:08In fact, they were – if you look at the threads of history, they were an extension
00:02:12of it.
00:02:13So a doomsday cult that implodes from a leader who's dying of an illness that was not cured
00:02:19from a divine healing makes this an all-too-unusual scenario.
00:02:23And with that, I'll let you take it off.
00:02:26Well, I totally agree on both of those analogies, a doomsday cult and a divine healing cult, John.
00:02:34It was a doomsday cult in the sense that if you listen to the last few months of Dr.
00:02:40Freeman's preaching, especially in a series on Exodus, he was preparing the people for
00:02:49the worst.
00:02:49He was expecting faith assembly to be delivered from the jaws of the media and legal and medical
00:02:59world, just as the children of Israel had been delivered from Egypt.
00:03:04In the book of Exodus, he did see himself as a second Moses.
00:03:09He made all the analogies and comparisons of how Moses had been trained in all the wisdom
00:03:15of Egypt so that he could be that person who would eventually be sent by God back down there
00:03:22to Egypt, to the courts of Pharaoh, to deliver the Israelites from the Egyptians.
00:03:27And he saw, in his mind, similar parallels, how God had taken him through Southern Baptist
00:03:34Seminary, Grace Seminary, prepared him in all the wisdom of the denominational world so
00:03:41that he could be the Moses to lead them out of that.
00:03:44And I have to say, from my own perspective, that I was not, I guess their terminology there
00:03:55would be, I was not in fellowship with faith assembly in 1984.
00:03:59I had written some letters asking Hobart about some of the issues happening at faith assembly.
00:04:08So I was on the outside.
00:04:11So I was not a part emotionally of the summer and the fall of 1984 that led up to his deaths.
00:04:22So, for instance, we talked last time, and we'll talk some more today about the serious
00:04:27problems he had with both of his feet, especially his left foot, the one that had been damaged
00:04:33in an automobile accident where a big factory truck had run over him when he was 13 years
00:04:39old and had just crushed the leg, the foot, and he had lifelong permanent damage as a result
00:04:45of that.
00:04:46And consequently, you know, a wound, a sore had opened up there, and he was not able to
00:04:54stand up as he had in the past and preach.
00:04:57So I wasn't aware of any of that.
00:04:59You've got to keep in mind that if you were part of faith assembly and you were there in
00:05:03the main building, or if you were a member in good standing at one of the satellite churches,
00:05:10you had all kinds of inside information.
00:05:13You not only were on what they call the automatics and what that was, Dr. Freeman's tapes were
00:05:19automatically mailed out if you signed up to get on the automatics, and you got those,
00:05:24the latest tapes on a regular basis.
00:05:27You also had friends and contacts there at the Mother Church, so you could find out what
00:05:32was being said and done and what things looked like before and after a service.
00:05:39The tapes just had Dr. Freeman's message.
00:05:41You couldn't get a feel for everything else unless you were there, unless you had a friend.
00:05:45And I was not privy to any of that.
00:05:47All of my information was going to come later and was going to come secondhand because I
00:05:55was not a member there.
00:05:57Hobart's preaching schedule over the years had evolved, and that's something I want to
00:06:05talk about to begin with.
00:06:06And it's true for any minister.
00:06:08When I was a young minister, I had a period in my life where I think I taught during the
00:06:14day, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, maybe Thursday, maybe Friday, I'm sure Saturday, and definitely
00:06:21Sunday.
00:06:22That little flurry of activity didn't last long.
00:06:26But when you're newer in the ministry, you do preach a whole lot.
00:06:30And as Dr. Freeman got older, and I'm not faulting him for this.
00:06:36I think a lot of ministers do this.
00:06:38You know, you've preached for years.
00:06:40You've preached for decades.
00:06:41So you kind of evolve into an easier schedule.
00:06:46So his schedule by the end of his life was he preached on Sunday evening, and he preached
00:06:54on Wednesday evening.
00:06:56You would think Sunday morning because that's the main church service, but Hobart was not
00:07:02a morning person.
00:07:02He liked to stay up till 1 or 2 a.m. and then sleep in late.
00:07:06He was just not a morning person, and he let that be known on a lot of different messages.
00:07:12So at the end of his life, he was only responsible for Sunday evening and Wednesday evening.
00:07:18Another routine that he had later in his life was that he would take a month off from preaching.
00:07:24You know, he had preached 11 months, and he would take a month off.
00:07:28And again, I'm just documenting what the facts were.
00:07:31I don't have any criticism of that.
00:07:34You know, seminary professors or college professors will teach for, you know, seven years and then
00:07:41take a sabbatical because you need to recharge, have time to do research, get things fresh again
00:07:48in your mind before you resume teaching.
00:07:50So it was his habit to take a month off in the fall.
00:07:57Earlier in his life, because he had lived, he had moved from Kentucky to Tampa and then
00:08:04had moved from Tampa to St. Petersburg, Florida, he had a connection to Florida.
00:08:11He liked the weather.
00:08:12Who wouldn't?
00:08:13You know, it's pretty and warm down there most of the time.
00:08:16And so earlier in his ministry, when he would take that month off, he would often travel
00:08:23down to Florida.
00:08:24The last year that he did his regular monthly seminars was 1976.
00:08:32And that's how I first heard of Hobart Freeman.
00:08:34He came to Memphis in the spring of 1976.
00:08:38And each month, except the month he would take off, he would go to Lafayette, Louisiana,
00:08:45Albuquerque, New Mexico, Knoxville, Tennessee, Milton, Florida was one of the places he would
00:08:52go, which is not far from Pensacola.
00:08:56It's up in the panhandle.
00:08:58So earlier in his ministry, he would take his month off and they would go to Florida.
00:09:03But in the later years, they liked to go out West.
00:09:07So they would get in their little recreational vehicle and they would, you know, just drive
00:09:13out to places like Colorado.
00:09:16But in 1984, he's also going to have his month vacation, but it's coming a lot later in the
00:09:26year than it normally did.
00:09:28I mean, this church was in Northern Indiana.
00:09:30So when you want to take a month off, you don't want to do it in November and December
00:09:36and January when cold weather and snow are going to arrive.
00:09:39You're definitely going to do it in September or preferably October.
00:09:42And that was his normal routine.
00:09:45But 1984, he did not get that month off.
00:09:50We've got to remind ourselves of the last year worth of podcasts, John, and of all the
00:09:56things that were beginning to happen in 1984 for Dr.
00:09:59Freeman.
00:10:01In February of that year, he was served these papers.
00:10:05He says on a message entitled Avoiding an Unsettled Mind, I think part two, he had a hundred
00:10:14and four page document he had gotten from the court of a civil lawsuit.
00:10:20And we documented all this many, many podcasts ago.
00:10:25People will have to go back and find that.
00:10:27But a couple in Illinois had hired a Michigan attorney and they were after not criminal proceedings,
00:10:34but civil proceedings in Dr.
00:10:36Freeman's life to uncover how much money he was worth and to see if they could sue him for
00:10:42some of that money.
00:10:43There also were just numerous deaths that were happening all during the spring and summer
00:10:51and early fall, either at Faith Assembly or in one of her satellite churches.
00:10:58Indiana had passed new laws.
00:11:00So because people were continuing to die, now the court system, the legal system could go
00:11:07after them.
00:11:08And they definitely did that.
00:11:09So in addition to the deaths, now you have all of these trials where these different
00:11:14families, such as David and Kathleen Bergman and Gary and Margaret Hall were being arrested
00:11:23and charged and convicted and sentenced.
00:11:27And Gary Hall actually ends up going to prison as one of the members of Faith Assembly who had
00:11:33had a person in his home die.
00:11:37So as a consequence of that, you have a swarming media.
00:11:42The media is just all over the place trying to get to the bottom of the situation.
00:11:49Also that fall, whom I would call the heir apparent to the pulpit at Faith Assembly, Dr.
00:11:57Freeman's son-in-law, Bruce Kinsey, up and quit the sect.
00:12:02Bruce wrote me a letter and said, I'm leaving because of, and he gave the list that we've
00:12:09talked about before.
00:12:10Women can't wear pants and you can't watch and own TVs.
00:12:15No hunting is allowed in the church.
00:12:17No medicine, no certain athletic shoes, no prostitute purses and so forth.
00:12:24And then finally, the two things that really came to bear on Dr.
00:12:31Freeman in the fall of 1984 were, first of all, a criminal indictment.
00:12:37And that had to do with the death of a 15-year-old girl, Pamela Meany, who had died of a kidney
00:12:45disease.
00:12:47Left untreated.
00:12:48Her parents were members of the church and they were following Dr.
00:12:54Freeman's teaching of no medicine.
00:12:57Jesus is your doctor.
00:12:59If you go to the medical field, you're leaning to the arm of the flesh and you'll put God's
00:13:05curse upon you.
00:13:06And so consequently, a grand jury had been convened and Dr.
00:13:13Freeman had been indicted.
00:13:14Again, John, we've talked about all of this in much detail earlier.
00:13:18People can research that on the earlier podcast.
00:13:22But he received the summons on October the 17th of 1984, which was a Wednesday.
00:13:32He preached that night, by the way.
00:13:34And then he was to report to court and jail the next morning, the morning of Thursday, October
00:13:40the 18th, which he did.
00:13:41He was arrested, fingerprinted, booked in Kosciuszko County Jail, photographed, obviously weighed.
00:13:53All of this will, the weighing part will come into importance in our discussion here in the
00:13:59upcoming weeks.
00:14:00And he also went before the judge.
00:14:02The judge is trying to determine, you know, the validity of the claims of the indictment.
00:14:09And he asked Dr.
00:14:12Freeman about his teaching on divine healing, what he taught.
00:14:15And again, this is all public knowledge that is available in the reports that when he asked
00:14:21Dr.
00:14:21Freeman, did he teach his church members not that they could not go to the doctors?
00:14:30He said, no, he didn't teach that.
00:14:31He said what he taught was that healing was in the atonement.
00:14:35And if they would pray, they could be healed.
00:14:38And it was his own private position that medical science was not the route he was going to take.
00:14:44But he did not teach that to the church.
00:14:46And of course, we provided many clips and excerpts from tapes to show that was a false statement
00:14:53he made to the judge.
00:14:54He most definitely warned everyone against going to doctors.
00:14:59He said, God will lower the boom on you.
00:15:02And one of his messages, another one, he said, you just have no place here in faith assembly
00:15:06if you can't trust the Lord for your healing.
00:15:10And then the second of these big issues hitting Dr.
00:15:14Freeman at this time in 1984 were his own personal health issues.
00:15:18Those were simply becoming enormous.
00:15:21So I say all that, John, to say this, consequently, that's why you have this message that he preached
00:15:30in two parts, part one on October the 17th and part two, a week later, a Wednesday night,
00:15:36October the 24th, entitled Comfort for Troubled Times.
00:15:42Now, he says that, oh, the Lord had already given me this before I got the indictment.
00:15:50Just so you know, the Lord had already given me this message.
00:15:53Well, whether that's true or not, I don't know.
00:15:56But he clearly was talking to himself in preaching these messages.
00:16:01And it was from Romans 8.
00:16:03And he just kind of works his way through Romans 8.
00:16:08Again, the title of the message was Comfort for Troubled Times.
00:16:12And just look at the trouble that he was experiencing personally.
00:16:17So these messages, which are available online, are pretty fascinating to listen to.
00:16:25I would recommend anyone who's curious to hear a couple of the last sermons of Hobart Freeman's
00:16:32life to look those up and hear them.
00:16:35On one of them, I think the first one, you'll hear the ban against hunting.
00:16:39No hunting is allowed.
00:16:42And that caused all kinds of problems.
00:16:44You'll hear, and we played that quote before, there's no sense in doing it again.
00:16:49But he gets himself into a little trouble as he's talking about overcomers are not going
00:16:54to have anything to do with weapons of death or hurting or harming God's creation.
00:17:00I think then to his mind comes the story of Jesus and the apostles fishing after the resurrection.
00:17:08So he says, now, I'm not saying you can't go fishing to catch fish.
00:17:13You'll just have to work all that out in your own mind.
00:17:16And I thought, how convenient that you want us to take your responsibility for your confusion.
00:17:23I think the confusion might have hit him as he was saying that.
00:17:27But be that as it may, what's the difference between catching a fish, throwing it in the
00:17:32bottom of the boat and watching it starve to death for lack of oxygen in the water and going
00:17:37out and shooting a squirrel.
00:17:39Anyway, that was something that came out on these messages, as well as you will hear him
00:17:44saying, look, the reason I'm leaning on the pulpit, in case any of you wonder, I'm not
00:17:51nervous, but I have to stay off of that other foot because it has a big hole in it.
00:17:56And I think the end of the quote, John, goes something like this, and I don't even have
00:18:02it in front of me, but I've heard this enough that I'm aware of it.
00:18:06It goes something like this, but I was healed at Calvary 2,000 years ago, so I have no problem.
00:18:14So that's the context of this last fall of Dr. Freeman's life before he is getting ready
00:18:22to be gone from the pulpit for a month.
00:18:25And for me, for a divine healer to stand up behind the pulpit and say, I've got a hole
00:18:32in my foot, while you can be healed of anything, just ask me, it would be like taking your car
00:18:37to a mechanic, and the mechanic says, sure, bring your car, but the one that just drove
00:18:42off of here, it blew up before it got onto the freeway.
00:18:47I mean, that's exactly what this is.
00:18:49And you look back through history, and you just see example after example.
00:18:53I've mentioned them, and I won't go deep into the names, but William Branham, the biggest
00:18:57one for me, the biggest real exposure to this is before the recorded history.
00:19:05He has this booming faith healing ministry.
00:19:07He documents this in one of his publications that just completely crashes.
00:19:13But he doesn't mention why it crashes.
00:19:15He just says, I went off the field for four or five years.
00:19:18And then later, he comes back, he reinvents himself, new stage persona, etc.
00:19:23Well, what happened?
00:19:24His wife died.
00:19:25His wife died of tuberculosis.
00:19:27And to a faith healer, that's a big deal.
00:19:29Well, picture Hobart Freeman.
00:19:31To a faith healer who has a hole in his foot, that's a big deal.
00:19:34But I'm thinking more as you're talking about the destructive nature of a doomsday cult during
00:19:44this time.
00:19:45You've got the walls are closing in on him.
00:19:48You've got the hole in the foot, obviously, but you've got the legal issues.
00:19:52You have all of these things that are building up weights where, if you listen to the recordings,
00:19:57he is clearly upset.
00:19:59He's emotionally unstable.
00:20:01You can hear it in his voice.
00:20:02Well, to a doomsday cult, when they sense that the leader is unstable, and they have
00:20:08given everything to this movement, there's part of them that just wants to leave.
00:20:14Inwardly, you can tell that some of the people just want to, but they can't, and they're
00:20:18trapped.
00:20:20And leading up to this, I'm sure Hobart Freeman did, if I were to examine the sermons.
00:20:25I know all of the other doomsday cults do.
00:20:27When it gets to the point where they sense that something's going to happen that might
00:20:34put their leadership in question, they start introducing the notion that the walls will
00:20:39close in in our doctrine.
00:20:41So the doctrine starts to take shape that before we leave, you'll see, in Branhamism, we called
00:20:48it the squeeze.
00:20:49You'll see the squeeze happen.
00:20:51The government will come in.
00:20:52There's different phrases that they use, but they all use this.
00:20:56And what it does psychologically for the leader, it prepares them for an escape route should something
00:21:04go wrong with everything that they're saying.
00:21:06But to the person who's trapped on the inside in the rank and file, they look at this like,
00:21:12oh, well, we're expecting something bad to happen.
00:21:15It's going to challenge our faith.
00:21:17I think that's the big thing.
00:21:18So what happens is they burrow deeper and deeper into it, even though they see the walls
00:21:22are closing in on them and the walls are crumbling in this case.
00:21:26Well, they bury themselves deeper into it because they have been manipulated through that the squeeze
00:21:32doctrine or however it's called in Hobart Freeman's cult.
00:21:35And I'm sure, John, that that's true for the people listening to this podcast who were
00:21:40a part of Faith Assembly.
00:21:41You know, I didn't experience it only because I wasn't there.
00:21:44And I didn't feel this was after the fact when I was able to hear the messages.
00:21:51You know, no one, I was not allowed to be sent any of those messages that were happening
00:21:57during that fall and winter of 84.
00:22:00So I'm hearing this afterwards.
00:22:03But had I heard that live, you know, in the moment as as it was going down, then, yeah,
00:22:10I'm sure that's exactly what everyone is feeling.
00:22:13And you can listen to the Exodus series.
00:22:15I mean, the Exodus series, which I think is only nine tapes.
00:22:19You know, he just got through, I don't know, 10 or 12 or 14 chapters.
00:22:23And as I've said about Dr. Freeman all the time, and this is the honest truth, he was
00:22:28never interested in teaching the people.
00:22:29So they understood the historical second book of the Pentateuch, the book of Moses, Exodus.
00:22:36That was not his concern or interest at all.
00:22:39And that just can't be gainsaid.
00:22:41If you listen to the messages, he is looking for faith assembly in Exodus 1 to 14.
00:22:48And he's looking for himself.
00:22:51And in those messages, he talks so much about the the world is closing in, you know, the
00:22:57authorities and the media.
00:22:59Now they're writing laws against us.
00:23:02You know, the state legislature has convened just because of us.
00:23:06That's how important we are.
00:23:08And they're they are crafting laws directed specifically against us because we're God's chosen people.
00:23:18We're God's faithful people.
00:23:20We're the only true church.
00:23:22I'm the only true minister.
00:23:23100% a doomsday cult and 100% psychologically manipulating the people's minds into this us
00:23:37against them mentality.
00:23:40So he does take this month off.
00:23:43It's just a little unusual because it's later in the year.
00:23:48But people who are at faith assembly should still have been suspicious because they've
00:23:56seen him leaning on the pulpit.
00:23:59They've seen him sitting in a chair because he couldn't stand up anymore to preach.
00:24:04They've heard his constant references to the hole in his foot.
00:24:09And I would not blame a normal person, John, or a normal minister to reference, you know,
00:24:18a cold, a flu, my foot hurts, my back hurts, my dog died, my wife is ill, whatever, because
00:24:24those are normal experiences human beings go through.
00:24:28And it's OK to talk about them.
00:24:30However, he put himself in a different category.
00:24:32He was healed at Calvary.
00:24:34He said, I was healed 2000 years ago.
00:24:36OK, if you were, then you don't have a hole in your foot.
00:24:42I mean, by your own teaching, you don't have that's a lying symptom by your own teaching.
00:24:48So I would have to definitely fault him for constantly referencing the hole in his foot.
00:24:57And look, people say, you know, don't be so insensitive.
00:25:00The man was in a lot of pain.
00:25:01I realize that, and I think that's terrible and horrible.
00:25:05And that's probably why he did mention the hole in his foot.
00:25:09He needed some sympathy from people.
00:25:11We all need sympathy from people when we're not feeling well.
00:25:15But you have taught such a message that you have put yourself in a corner where you don't
00:25:21get sympathy because you're not sick.
00:25:24You don't have a heart condition.
00:25:26You don't have deformed feet.
00:25:28You don't have a hole in your foot.
00:25:30You don't have any of that.
00:25:31According to you, you've been healed.
00:25:34So people, when they saw him take a month off, they should have been suspicious.
00:25:40I think there's more going on here than meets the eye.
00:25:45But look, they also had this accompanying view of positive thinking and confession.
00:25:52You know, I mean, what a trap these people are in.
00:25:57The man is leaning.
00:25:58He's got a hole on his foot, in his ankle and in his foot.
00:26:02One of the medical reports actually said it was necrosis caused by gangrene that had gone
00:26:09up three inches up his ankle.
00:26:13Necrosis, this is irreversible.
00:26:16This is dead, destroyed, wasted.
00:26:19This skin, muscle tissue is gone.
00:26:23It just doesn't exist.
00:26:25That's what gangrene necrosis is.
00:26:29But he doesn't have it because of positive thinking and confession.
00:26:34What are you supposed to do if you are his wife and you are soaking and dressing that?
00:26:41You're soaking and dressing something that isn't there, right?
00:26:45Isn't that a normal, perfectly like baby's flesh ankle?
00:26:48Yeah, that's the problem, John.
00:26:51That is the serious problem of this positive thinking and confession.
00:26:55That prevents people from even going down the path of addressing the reality of what poor Dr. Freeman was experiencing.
00:27:06And as I say, those closest to him, his wife, his daughters, his aides, the higher up in the pecking order of the ministry there,
00:27:21they would know what this man was going through.
00:27:24And the congregation had a feel for it.
00:27:27But, you know, it'd be interesting to poll, John, all the people out there.
00:27:34I think there probably were around 2,000 at that time.
00:27:39Parathetically, I did have a conversation back in 2023.
00:27:43So that's just two and a half years ago with Jeff Barnett, who was one of the main top dog ministers there.
00:27:51It was a phone conversation that Jeff and I had.
00:27:54And Jeff said, by that time, he said the attendance channel had been around 2,400, but it was probably down to around 2,000.
00:28:04There's 400 people that had looked at the doomsday cult walls closing in around them.
00:28:11And for one reason or the other, but that's probably the main reason, had decided they were going to leave.
00:28:17But I have to put, even though I understand this is family, this is a dear wife to whom you've been married, I guess that would be 42 years.
00:28:31I believe Hobart and June had been married.
00:28:34Yeah, they married in 1942 when Hobart was 22 and when June was 20.
00:28:41And we're talking about 1984, this is a long-term marriage.
00:28:45He's got three daughters.
00:28:47He has sons-in-law.
00:28:49He has grandchildren.
00:28:51You know, I understand for sure the human side of all of this.
00:28:56And we'll talk more about that here in a moment, too, and how terrible that would have been for them.
00:29:01But here is the problem with positive thinking and confession, where you think and you confess that what I see is not a reality.
00:29:12I don't have a heart condition.
00:29:14I don't have a headache.
00:29:15I've got 20-20 vision.
00:29:17I don't have a hole in my foot.
00:29:19My youth is renewed like the eagles.
00:29:22Psalm 103, 1 to 5, he said he quotes that every morning.
00:29:25He quotes Psalm 91.
00:29:27No evil will ever befall me.
00:29:29No plague will ever come nigh in my dwelling.
00:29:32Then what are we supposed to do with the facts?
00:29:37What are we supposed to do with the facts?
00:29:39They had been so trained and so manipulated as to look at those things because Hobart had said this and call them lying vanities or call them lying symptoms.
00:29:52And so the poor people were up a creek without a paddle and there's just nothing they could do.
00:29:57That's the other thing that really bothers me about all of this.
00:30:00Whenever I think through this event, as it's building up to the climax, which would be his death, I feel sorry for everybody involved.
00:30:08I feel sorry for Hobart Freeman because he is truly suffering in ways that I don't think even his congregation really understood.
00:30:14Both psychologically and physically, he is suffering the rank and file members, they're suffering because they don't really know what's next.
00:30:24There's this unknown.
00:30:25If something happens and he goes to prison, well, how does that affect us?
00:30:30What will we do when our leader is in prison?
00:30:33But take it a step further.
00:30:34Think about the positive confession.
00:30:36You had this notion that F.F.
00:30:39Bosworth trained Branham.
00:30:41Bosworth learned it from Dowie and others.
00:30:43There was this idea that there was this dual atonement.
00:30:46Salvation included Jesus dying for your sins, but it also included healing and they're one in the same.
00:30:53It's in the same bundle.
00:30:55So now you have a faith healer who is the central figure of the cult who clearly is not being healed.
00:31:01He's got a hole in his foot.
00:31:03Well, now the question in the back of the heads of the listener who has been trained with his dual atonement,
00:31:09they have to wonder, well, is he saved?
00:31:12Because he has told us over and over and over again, salvation comes with healing.
00:31:17If he's not healed, is he saved?
00:31:19Is he preaching to us unsaved?
00:31:22I mean, all of those questions are forming in the back of their minds.
00:31:25However, whenever you're in a destructive cult, the cult identity suppresses the authentic self.
00:31:33So inside you, all of those questions are being pushed down.
00:31:38And as we'll get into in some of the aftermath of all of this, afterwards, whenever all of this happens,
00:31:44that's when the questions really surface and people have to make an active decision.
00:31:49Do I suppress the questions?
00:31:51Was he really unsaved because salvation and healing are the same?
00:31:55And sadly, as we know, I mean, the cult still exists today.
00:31:59There were people that chose to suppress those questions and continue.
00:32:04Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started?
00:32:08Or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign,
00:32:13charismatic, and other fringe movements into the New Apostolic Reformation?
00:32:17You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website,
00:32:22william-branham.org.
00:32:24On the books page of the website,
00:32:26you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery,
00:32:32John McKinnon, and others,
00:32:34with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.
00:32:38You can also find resources and documentation
00:32:41on various people and topics related to those movements.
00:32:45If you want to contribute to the cause,
00:32:47you can support the podcast by clicking the Contribute button at the top.
00:32:52And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version
00:32:56that you're listening to or watching.
00:32:58On behalf of William Branham Historical Research,
00:33:01we want to thank you for your support.
00:33:03Another thing I have realized,
00:33:07I don't think I realized it back in those days,
00:33:10but I've definitely realized it as I aged,
00:33:13as I got older,
00:33:14when Hobart was teaching the Preaching from the Prophets,
00:33:18which was a series, quote unquote, on Jeremiah.
00:33:21It was really just to talk normal faith assembly, pet peeve doctrine.
00:33:26And when he was teaching exhortations from Exodus,
00:33:29Hobart was living in his own little,
00:33:34I hate to say it,
00:33:36but his own little make-believe world.
00:33:38He never went anywhere, John.
00:33:39He went from his study to church twice a week
00:33:43and back home to his study where he lived.
00:33:46And he was ill-prepared to deal with the power
00:33:50of the United States government.
00:33:52But on his messages,
00:33:55you could see how out of touch he was
00:33:59with reality.
00:34:01If they try to arrest me,
00:34:03you know,
00:34:03I'll just preach in jail.
00:34:06He didn't understand what jail was.
00:34:09He doesn't understand.
00:34:10These are real concrete bars.
00:34:13These are real walls.
00:34:15And the court system,
00:34:17these are real judges
00:34:18who are elected officials
00:34:21and who have power and authority.
00:34:24And I'm sure Dr.
00:34:28Freem was not living in reality.
00:34:31He would probably have thought,
00:34:33well,
00:34:34you know,
00:34:34if God doesn't just deliver me
00:34:37in front of the judge,
00:34:38you know,
00:34:38by sending a chariot of horses
00:34:41and angels right out of heaven
00:34:43to rescue me
00:34:44and I end up in prison,
00:34:47surely,
00:34:47you know,
00:34:47I've read the book of Acts
00:34:49and,
00:34:50you know,
00:34:50the angel of God
00:34:51just in Acts 12
00:34:52just came and released
00:34:54the apostle Peter
00:34:56in a miraculous way
00:34:58and he was able
00:34:58to go on his way.
00:35:00I guarantee you
00:35:01those were
00:35:02the faults
00:35:03of Dr. Freeman
00:35:04because he was not
00:35:05living in reality.
00:35:07Peter got released
00:35:08because Peter
00:35:09wasn't going around
00:35:10killing people
00:35:11with his false message
00:35:13of healing
00:35:13and positive thinking
00:35:14and confession.
00:35:15And Paul and Silas
00:35:16got released
00:35:17in Acts 16
00:35:19because they were
00:35:20truly healing people.
00:35:22I don't find
00:35:23any of those guys
00:35:24saying,
00:35:25well,
00:35:25I prayed for you
00:35:26but the reason
00:35:28you haven't received
00:35:29your manifestation yet
00:35:30is,
00:35:31you know,
00:35:31fill in the blank,
00:35:3225 words or less.
00:35:34No,
00:35:34when they laid hands
00:35:35on people,
00:35:36they were healed.
00:35:37When Paul told
00:35:39that demon
00:35:39to come out
00:35:40of the young lady
00:35:42in Acts 16
00:35:44in Philippi,
00:35:45the spirit of divination,
00:35:46when he said
00:35:47come out,
00:35:48the demon came out.
00:35:49He didn't have
00:35:50any choice.
00:35:51He came out.
00:35:52When Dr. Freeman
00:35:53prayed all these prayers,
00:35:55oh,
00:35:55now you take it
00:35:56by faith
00:35:56and go and
00:35:57await your manifestation.
00:35:59And if your manifestation
00:36:00never comes,
00:36:01then of course,
00:36:02always it's your fault.
00:36:03Well,
00:36:03you must have sin,
00:36:04unconfessed sin
00:36:05in your life.
00:36:06Isn't it interesting
00:36:07that none of the apostles
00:36:08ever come along
00:36:08and say,
00:36:09now the reason
00:36:09you didn't get healed
00:36:10is you had
00:36:11unconfessed sin
00:36:12in your life.
00:36:14So Dr. Freeman
00:36:14was just living
00:36:15in a make-believe world
00:36:17that he had created
00:36:18in his own mind.
00:36:20Didn't understand
00:36:21what was going on.
00:36:22So let's come
00:36:23to this last week,
00:36:24John,
00:36:24of the week
00:36:25of beginning
00:36:26with December 2,
00:36:281984,
00:36:29which is a Sunday.
00:36:31Dr. Freeman
00:36:32had been away
00:36:33from the church
00:36:34for several weeks
00:36:35and, you know,
00:36:37you could say
00:36:38on the outside
00:36:39if you were
00:36:40a peripheral member
00:36:42and you did not know
00:36:43what's going on,
00:36:44well, you know,
00:36:45he always took
00:36:45a week off.
00:36:46So this is just
00:36:47his week off.
00:36:48Again, I say
00:36:49I think everyone knew
00:36:50and they were suspicious
00:36:51because of
00:36:52the public announcements
00:36:54about the hole
00:36:55in his left foot.
00:36:56If they had any doubt
00:36:58on December 2,
00:37:00those doubts
00:37:01were erased
00:37:02because the entire
00:37:03church
00:37:03was asked
00:37:05to pray
00:37:05for their pastor
00:37:06because he was
00:37:08seriously,
00:37:09seriously ill.
00:37:10Well, you can't
00:37:12be seriously,
00:37:13seriously ill
00:37:14if you were healed
00:37:15at Calvary
00:37:162,000 years ago
00:37:17and I'm just
00:37:19going to continue
00:37:20to repeat that
00:37:20because there's
00:37:21some kind of
00:37:22disconnect.
00:37:22There's something
00:37:23wrong.
00:37:24There's something
00:37:25wrong in
00:37:26someone's doctrine
00:37:27to say I was
00:37:28healed 2,000
00:37:29years ago
00:37:30but I'm so
00:37:32seriously ill
00:37:33I need the church
00:37:34to pray for me.
00:37:35There's something
00:37:35wrong with that.
00:37:36Something needs
00:37:37to change.
00:37:38Either your
00:37:38experience
00:37:39needs to change
00:37:40and you need
00:37:41to be healed
00:37:41and then you
00:37:42can go see
00:37:43I was healed
00:37:44or you have
00:37:45to change
00:37:45your doctrine
00:37:46because your
00:37:47doctrine does
00:37:48not line up
00:37:49with scripture
00:37:49and of course
00:37:50I would vote
00:37:51for the second.
00:37:52I wish everyone
00:37:53were healed
00:37:53when they were
00:37:54praying
00:37:54then we wouldn't
00:37:54be having
00:37:55these podcasts
00:37:56but that's
00:37:57not those
00:37:58aren't the facts
00:37:59so we are.
00:38:01They were not
00:38:01only asked to
00:38:02pray for their
00:38:04pastor they were
00:38:05asked to go on
00:38:05a three-day fast
00:38:07from Sunday
00:38:08to the Wednesday
00:38:09night service
00:38:10in the middle
00:38:11of that week.
00:38:13The church
00:38:14had never been
00:38:14asked to do
00:38:15anything like
00:38:15that before.
00:38:16Maybe a day
00:38:17fast as a group
00:38:18but a three-day
00:38:19fast for all
00:38:20of the membership
00:38:21that's a pretty
00:38:22big deal
00:38:24and I don't
00:38:25know that
00:38:26people have
00:38:27thought of it
00:38:29like this John
00:38:30but I have
00:38:30thought of it
00:38:31as I have
00:38:31watched other
00:38:32people under
00:38:34Freeman's ministry
00:38:35Freeman himself
00:38:36included
00:38:36who have
00:38:38claimed their
00:38:39healing
00:38:40confessed it
00:38:41broadcast it
00:38:42to everyone
00:38:43and yet they
00:38:44aren't healed
00:38:45and in the
00:38:47process of
00:38:48this claiming
00:38:49and confessing
00:38:50they have
00:38:50rejected all
00:38:51medicine
00:38:52all medical
00:38:53science
00:38:54all medical
00:38:54help
00:38:55that if you're
00:38:56an adult
00:38:57if you're an
00:38:57adult that's
00:38:58your prerogative
00:38:59that's your
00:38:59right to do
00:39:00that
00:39:00however if
00:39:02you do that
00:39:03then I don't
00:39:05think the
00:39:05burden of
00:39:06your care
00:39:07should be on
00:39:08any other
00:39:09people
00:39:09you have
00:39:10professional
00:39:11people available
00:39:12for your
00:39:14care
00:39:14and that's
00:39:15called medical
00:39:16doctors
00:39:16that those
00:39:17are health
00:39:17professionals
00:39:18who are
00:39:19trained who
00:39:19actually can
00:39:20help you
00:39:21if you choose
00:39:22not to use
00:39:23them and you
00:39:24continue to
00:39:25profess and
00:39:26confess that
00:39:27you were healed
00:39:28at Calvary
00:39:292000 years ago
00:39:30then you're
00:39:31healed
00:39:32it's as
00:39:32simple as
00:39:32that
00:39:33that should
00:39:34be the
00:39:34fact of
00:39:34the matter
00:39:35and you
00:39:36shouldn't be
00:39:37placing this
00:39:38burden of
00:39:39your health
00:39:40care on
00:39:41people around
00:39:41you
00:39:42now of course
00:39:42the people
00:39:43around you
00:39:43your wife
00:39:44your children
00:39:44love you
00:39:45and I
00:39:45understand
00:39:45they love
00:39:46you and
00:39:47they're going
00:39:47to help
00:39:47you
00:39:48I'm trying
00:39:48to point
00:39:49out just
00:39:50the stark
00:39:51reality of
00:39:52the situation
00:39:53that if you
00:39:54want to
00:39:54let's say
00:39:55for instance
00:39:55that you
00:39:57you want to
00:39:58claim healing
00:39:59for your bad
00:40:00vision and
00:40:01you can't
00:40:02see well
00:40:02enough to
00:40:03pass the
00:40:03driver's test
00:40:04consequently you
00:40:05would have to
00:40:06wear glasses
00:40:06to drive
00:40:07but you
00:40:08refuse to
00:40:09do that
00:40:09because you
00:40:11were healed
00:40:11at Calvary
00:40:122000 years
00:40:13ago you
00:40:14have every
00:40:14right if
00:40:15you're an
00:40:15adult to
00:40:16go down
00:40:16that path
00:40:17however if
00:40:18no one's
00:40:18responsibility
00:40:19to drive
00:40:20you around
00:40:20you can't
00:40:22burden other
00:40:23people you
00:40:24can't make
00:40:24them a
00:40:26victim of
00:40:27your lack
00:40:28of manifestation
00:40:29that's all
00:40:29on you
00:40:30if you've
00:40:31taken that
00:40:32upon yourself
00:40:33to believe
00:40:33this weird
00:40:35and crazy
00:40:35doctrine
00:40:36believe I
00:40:37have received
00:40:38and wait
00:40:38a month
00:40:39a moment
00:40:40a millennium
00:40:41for my
00:40:42manifestation
00:40:42then that's
00:40:44all on you
00:40:45and another
00:40:45point I would
00:40:46make here
00:40:47is I'm
00:40:48sure I
00:40:49know I
00:40:50mean it's
00:40:50a fact there
00:40:51had been
00:40:51many many
00:40:52members of
00:40:53faith assembly
00:40:53John who
00:40:54had been
00:40:54sick
00:40:54and who
00:40:56had died
00:40:57I doubt
00:40:58Hobart Freeman
00:40:59had ever
00:40:59gone on a
00:41:00three-day fast
00:41:01for any of
00:41:01them I
00:41:02don't know
00:41:03that I
00:41:03can't prove
00:41:04that that
00:41:05would be my
00:41:05guess because
00:41:07had he done
00:41:09that he would
00:41:09have never
00:41:10gotten to
00:41:10eat the
00:41:11last year
00:41:12or two
00:41:12he had
00:41:13that many
00:41:14people
00:41:14seriously
00:41:16ill and
00:41:17sick and
00:41:18then dying
00:41:19so surely
00:41:22people can
00:41:23see where
00:41:24I'm going
00:41:24with this
00:41:24how is
00:41:25it right
00:41:26although I
00:41:26understand the
00:41:27human side
00:41:28of it our
00:41:29pastor is
00:41:29terribly ill
00:41:30we're going
00:41:31to fast and
00:41:32pray for him
00:41:33for three days
00:41:33but how is
00:41:34that right
00:41:34how is that
00:41:36right to
00:41:37require the
00:41:38members of
00:41:39the church
00:41:39who are
00:41:41mothers raising
00:41:43children and
00:41:43homeschooling
00:41:44them and
00:41:45fathers getting
00:41:46up and going
00:41:46to work and
00:41:48you're asking
00:41:49them as a
00:41:51church body
00:41:52to go
00:41:54without food
00:41:55for three
00:41:56days that's
00:41:57hard I
00:41:58know I
00:41:59don't like to
00:41:59go without
00:42:00food for one
00:42:01day let
00:42:02alone three
00:42:02days and
00:42:03I'm sure
00:42:04many people
00:42:05John were
00:42:06you know
00:42:07willing to
00:42:09do it and
00:42:09happy to do
00:42:10it and I
00:42:11understand that
00:42:11that's that's
00:42:12your pastor and
00:42:13you don't
00:42:13understand the
00:42:14nature of
00:42:15this terribly
00:42:16destructive
00:42:17manipulative
00:42:19religious cult
00:42:20that you're
00:42:21in so I
00:42:22understand when
00:42:22you don't see
00:42:23that then
00:42:25you're just
00:42:25looking at this
00:42:26is my pastor
00:42:27and I love
00:42:27my pastor and
00:42:28he's taught me
00:42:29faithfully in
00:42:30their opinion in
00:42:31their mind all
00:42:31these years and
00:42:32so yes I want
00:42:34to fast and
00:42:35pray for him but
00:42:35I'm just asking
00:42:36in hindsight and
00:42:38it should have
00:42:39been thought of
00:42:40at that moment
00:42:41how is it
00:42:43right for the
00:42:45burden of going
00:42:46without food
00:42:47for three days
00:42:49to be placed
00:42:49on the people
00:42:50when Hobart's
00:42:51healed he says
00:42:52in that message
00:42:54comfort for
00:42:55troubled times he
00:42:56said I have no
00:42:57problem I was
00:42:58healed 2000 years
00:42:59ago I have no
00:43:00problem well if
00:43:01you don't have a
00:43:02problem there's no
00:43:02need to fast for
00:43:03three days and
00:43:05if everyone is
00:43:06willing to fast
00:43:07for Hobart then
00:43:08I just have to
00:43:09wonder was he
00:43:10willing to fast
00:43:11for all the
00:43:12people who had
00:43:14been sick and
00:43:15who had died
00:43:16terrible deaths
00:43:17under his
00:43:18ministry two
00:43:19other stories and
00:43:20I'll shut up for
00:43:20a moment here and
00:43:22I'm sure there are
00:43:22so many more John
00:43:24but two ladies over
00:43:25the last couple of
00:43:26years who have
00:43:27followed the
00:43:28podcast who were
00:43:31a part of this
00:43:32whole dreadful
00:43:35last month and
00:43:37now last week
00:43:38experience of
00:43:40faith assembly as
00:43:42we knew it with
00:43:43Dr. Freeman at
00:43:44the helm the
00:43:46leader behind the
00:43:46pulpit one of the
00:43:48young ladies said
00:43:49that when she
00:43:52heard this no
00:43:53food for three
00:43:54days she was a
00:43:55young adult and
00:43:57she had was
00:43:58taking a trip to
00:43:59Florida with some
00:44:00girlfriends I think
00:44:01I don't know there
00:44:02were four or five
00:44:03of them their late
00:44:04teens early 20s I
00:44:06don't know their
00:44:07age and so she
00:44:09tells in her
00:44:10correspondence with
00:44:11me just very you
00:44:13know you can't
00:44:14help but laugh at
00:44:15these stories you've
00:44:16got these young
00:44:17girls who are down
00:44:18in Florida you know
00:44:19probably just trying
00:44:20to relax and get
00:44:21away from northern
00:44:22Indiana cold and
00:44:23snow and we're so
00:44:24excited we're going
00:44:25to Florida and
00:44:26there's all kinds of
00:44:28delicious seafood down
00:44:29there and oh no
00:44:31we have to go on a
00:44:34fast so I think the
00:44:37way she told me the
00:44:38story and please
00:44:39forgive me dear if I
00:44:41don't have all of
00:44:41these details right
00:44:42because this was a
00:44:43long time ago and
00:44:44I've been told so
00:44:45many different
00:44:45stories but I think
00:44:47it only lasted for
00:44:48so long and then
00:44:49they had some of
00:44:50the little I don't
00:44:51know Vienna
00:44:52sausages in a can
00:44:53they just couldn't
00:44:54last any longer
00:44:55and they had to pop
00:44:56that can open and
00:44:57wolf those things
00:44:58down and I don't
00:44:59know that they made
00:45:00it all the way
00:45:00through their three
00:45:01day fast and then
00:45:03the second story is
00:45:04is similar and also
00:45:06humorous but also
00:45:07tragic this woman
00:45:09who's an adult now
00:45:10was only 12 years
00:45:11old at the time and
00:45:12she had younger
00:45:13siblings and of
00:45:14course her parents
00:45:15are going to be
00:45:16involved in this
00:45:17three-day fast so
00:45:19you know it's kind
00:45:20of hard for mom to
00:45:22be preparing food for
00:45:23all the little young
00:45:24young children you
00:45:25can't expect a
00:45:26four-year-old to go
00:45:28on a three-day fast
00:45:29so you still got to
00:45:30provide food for the
00:45:31young children in the
00:45:32family that's going to
00:45:33be very hard for mom
00:45:34to do it since mom
00:45:36can't eat for three
00:45:37days so the 12-year-old
00:45:38daughter is somewhat
00:45:41responsible for taking
00:45:42care of the younger
00:45:44siblings and she told
00:45:46me the story she was
00:45:47trying a wonderful
00:45:49young lady 12 years
00:45:51old trying to fast
00:45:52three days for her
00:45:53pastor say you don't
00:45:55really understand what
00:45:56fasting is when you're
00:45:57three years when you
00:45:59I'm sorry when you're
00:45:5912 years old but she's
00:46:02trying to do it for
00:46:02three days and she
00:46:04said but I was
00:46:05making a PB&J
00:46:07sandwiches for the
00:46:09little ones and I
00:46:10just couldn't help and
00:46:11I just took a bite
00:46:12and the tragic that's
00:46:16the funny part John
00:46:17the tragic part of that
00:46:19story for this young
00:46:20lady is a couple of
00:46:23days later at church
00:46:25the following Sunday
00:46:26when they find out that
00:46:28Hobart Freeman died
00:46:29she felt surely he died
00:46:32because I ate that
00:46:34peanut butter and jelly
00:46:36sandwich that's the
00:46:38kind of pressure and
00:46:39burden put by a in my
00:46:42opinion a false shepherd
00:46:44on his poor people
00:46:46that's awful I've got a
00:46:48grandfather who much
00:46:50like me likes to pull
00:46:51pranks and jokes and he
00:46:53would often go up to
00:46:54people after church and
00:46:55he would say I really
00:46:57appreciate you brother I
00:46:58think you're in the spirit
00:47:00let's let's spend a few
00:47:01days fasting and in
00:47:02prayer together and you
00:47:03can see the look on
00:47:04their face nobody wants
00:47:05to do this man you don't
00:47:07want to go without food
00:47:08especially three days I
00:47:10fasted I don't I don't
00:47:11know if you have ever
00:47:12done it but those first
00:47:13three days are killer you
00:47:15think you're gonna die but
00:47:17you know all jokes aside
00:47:20this is an awful thing that
00:47:22they're doing it's it was
00:47:24integrated into the
00:47:25movement we've talked
00:47:26about this you had William
00:47:28Branham and his
00:47:29spiritualism doctrines and
00:47:30you had Franklin Hall and
00:47:31his fasting doctrines and
00:47:33those were the catalysts
00:47:34that birth latter rain those
00:47:36two things you can go
00:47:37back and read through some
00:47:38of that history but the
00:47:40point is this they brought
00:47:42the fasting doctrine as
00:47:43though they could summon
00:47:44Jesus that's really the
00:47:46key difference between what
00:47:48the Bible says about
00:47:49fasting and what the
00:47:49movement said they were
00:47:51trying it was on the fears
00:47:53of World War three World
00:47:55War two had just came and
00:47:56gone and there's this
00:47:58period of happiness where
00:47:59everybody felt now we're
00:48:00peace right but then
00:48:02suddenly all the fears that
00:48:03it was going to happen again
00:48:04would come and this would be
00:48:05the big one this would be the
00:48:06end of the world and so what
00:48:08they were trying to do they're
00:48:09trying to summon Jesus and
00:48:10make Jesus come faster and
00:48:12Christianity is not like that
00:48:15some of the occult religions are
00:48:16like that but Christianity you
00:48:17don't summon that's what they
00:48:20were trying to do and they were
00:48:22pushing it they were building
00:48:24themselves up into the spiritual
00:48:26fervor where not just in you
00:48:29know not just in the revival
00:48:30itself but some of the groups
00:48:32started to have fasting
00:48:34doctrines even for the children
00:48:35and that still continues today
00:48:37there are churches that do this
00:48:38like you said no child wants to do
00:48:40that no child is even biblically
00:48:44they're not in the right state of
00:48:46mind to do this fasting is
00:48:47something that not just
00:48:49Christianity but many different
00:48:50religions do to get yourself into
00:48:52a state of submission so that you
00:48:55can be overcome with the spirit of
00:48:56whatever is the God that you're
00:48:57serving it's a common thing but it
00:49:00has to be a person who's wanting to
00:49:02get in the spirit it's not the
00:49:03random person who I'm going to make
00:49:05you suffer because I'm suffering too
00:49:06and that's what this doctrine really
00:49:08comes out to be yeah and I have
00:49:10fasted John I've never fasted longer
00:49:12than three days we've talked about
00:49:14fasting before where people have said
00:49:16they fasted 40 days 49 days one of
00:49:20them the guy said that Hobart loved
00:49:23to quote no food or water well you
00:49:26know I'm just I'm just going to leave
00:49:27that there I have I'm not an expert on
00:49:3040-day fast because I've never done
00:49:32one I have fasted for three days I
00:49:34don't know if I've ever fasted longer
00:49:36and I believe in fasting I think you
00:49:39probably believe in fasting it's in
00:49:40the Bible Jesus taught it in the
00:49:42Sermon on the Mount we're not making
00:49:43fun of fasting at all Jesus taught it
00:49:46in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew
00:49:486 he said when you fast you know don't
00:49:50appear to others to fast that's the
00:49:52context and in which he is teaching and
00:49:55later in the gospel accounts I think
00:49:58the Pharisees came and they want to
00:50:00know why Jesus disciples didn't fast
00:50:03and and he said well they don't fast
00:50:06because they have the bridegroom with
00:50:07them but the days will come when the
00:50:09bridegroom has left meaning himself
00:50:11and in those days they will fast so
00:50:13fasting is definitely something that
00:50:15is a is something that is appropriate
00:50:18within a Christian church and Christian
00:50:21environment as you said it's in many
00:50:23other environments but yes it has to be
00:50:25something that adults do or I couldn't
00:50:30put an age on it if you're 12 or 13 or
00:50:3314 and it's comes to you in your own
00:50:35mind and your own walk with God and you
00:50:37want to fast by all means you know
00:50:39there are no restrictions that's the
00:50:41whole purpose of the New Testament is
00:50:43that you you can't bind people there
00:50:46are no restrictions on on on fasting or
00:50:50praying you you simply do what you want
00:50:54to do but I do think that it has to come
00:50:56from the person's heart and I think it's
00:50:59so right John what you said that they we
00:51:03these movements tend to think they can
00:51:06manipulate God into doing what they want
00:51:09him to do and that's just not
00:51:12Christianity God is sovereign he's going
00:51:14to do what and when and where and why and
00:51:17with whom he wants and you can do all the
00:51:21fasting that you want fasting is good
00:51:24praying is good I know one of the things
00:51:27that I always had a problem with and I
00:51:29have a problem John to this day of these
00:51:31conferences that all of these groups
00:51:33have and they say we're gonna have a big
00:51:35conference you know at the end of this
00:51:37month those three days you may come
00:51:39prayed up and God is gonna meet you in a
00:51:42way like he has never met you before we
00:51:45can't schedule the Holy Spirit like that
00:51:48he may come then he may not he may come
00:51:51tomorrow when you're at home by yourself
00:51:53in your bedroom you simply it's okay to
00:51:56have a conference and all get together but
00:51:59you can't have it under the pretense it's
00:52:02the same as we're talking about with this
00:52:03fasting you can't do any of this under
00:52:05the pretense that we can assure the
00:52:08people promise the people get the people
00:52:11pumped up into hoping for expecting to see
00:52:15some great something from God I mean the
00:52:19Holy Spirit is sovereign he is the Holy
00:52:22Spirit and he moves when and where he
00:52:24wills we only have a few moments left so
00:52:29I'm on the evening now John they have
00:52:31fasted from Sunday to Wednesday of course
00:52:35Dr. Freeman is not in the pulpit on that
00:52:37Wednesday night the fast comes to an end
00:52:40they have Thursday they have Friday they
00:52:45have Saturday which is December the 8th of
00:52:491984 this will be Dr. Freeman's last day
00:52:52alive on this earth and you know we just
00:52:56have all kinds of reports and these reports
00:53:01are not difficult to come up with some of
00:53:04them are in the newspaper some of them are
00:53:07in legal documents some of them are in
00:53:09medical reports some of them many of them
00:53:13are firsthand reports some of them come
00:53:16from the neighbors who lived around the
00:53:20Freeman home on the corner of Shoe Lake
00:53:24there in Indiana I know last summer John I
00:53:27think we put up a lot of pictures of Dr.
00:53:30Freeman's house I have been in that house
00:53:33I've been in all the rooms of that house
00:53:35have pictures of everything there June
00:53:37gave me a tour through the house some of
00:53:41the pictures we put up in the past you
00:53:43actually see June as she's got a pair of
00:53:45gloves on and wanting to show us some
00:53:48little hand carved things that Hobart had
00:53:51done so their neighbors that's you know
00:53:55they're not a lot of neighbors that house
00:53:56by the way still exists you can find it
00:54:00on you know Google Earth like you can find
00:54:04everything else but there was a flurry of
00:54:08activity all around the Freeman residence on
00:54:12Shoe Lake on that Saturday of December the
00:54:158th 1984 and the neighbors testified to this
00:54:19effect especially as as evening came and as
00:54:24that night wore on there were lots of cars
00:54:29coming and going at the Freeman residence
00:54:32now I'm saying this because I don't think
00:54:36that the run-of-the-mill average faith
00:54:40assembly person or maybe even more so those
00:54:43in outlying satellite groups and settings
00:54:46would know the facts of the case and we are
00:54:51going to continue to talk about we're going
00:54:53to end up with Dr. Freeman dead before we're
00:54:56through with this podcast but the story is
00:54:58not dead there is so much more to say
00:55:01after that but to wrap up with this last
00:55:05evening and again just remember the people
00:55:08who are following the podcast we have a lot
00:55:10more to say about it there was a flurry of
00:55:13activity obviously there are relatives which
00:55:17would mean Dr. Freeman's wife and daughters
00:55:20there are top ministers we'll talk maybe more
00:55:25about some of those individuals later their
00:55:30top ministers this is I mean Dr. Freeman is
00:55:35so bad off that June is having to summon help to
00:55:40the house I think she was able to realize and
00:55:45the other people such as Pam and Kathy two
00:55:48daughters who were caring for their father at
00:55:51this time and I'm sure doing the best job they
00:55:54could possibly do none of them believed in
00:55:57medical science none of them believed in any
00:56:00type of medical help or aid or medicine so it's
00:56:04just as one medical report has said that we
00:56:07referenced earlier soaks and dressings you know
00:56:10they're soaking this thing this is gangrene that
00:56:14is it's irreversible when it's at this point you
00:56:18can't soak that or dress that in such a way as to
00:56:23make it go away of course I understand they're
00:56:26simply trying to keep Dr. Freeman as comfortable as
00:56:29possible and that's what any loved one would
00:56:31do but they're realizing that this is the moment when
00:56:36the rubber is meeting the road you don't know how
00:56:39much longer he is going to survive apart from a
00:56:45miracle you know John everyone in this doomsday
00:56:49divine healing mindset is literally expecting a last
00:56:55moment miracle and God simply was not going to do
00:57:00that and and we can see why had God done that that
00:57:04would have validated and justified this mess that had
00:57:09become faith assembly that was the last thing God
00:57:13would ever consider doing because it would justify this
00:57:16and he didn't do it which means it wasn't his will for
00:57:20this to happen and so I know this and we'll talk about
00:57:26this as it connects to the subject of deliverance and
00:57:31demonology we haven't even approached yet John Dr. Freeman's
00:57:34views on deliverance they are disturbing and profoundly
00:57:40unbiblical as you would probably guess even though you
00:57:43and I have never done a podcast we focused on the divine
00:57:46healing side the divine healing side was terrible because
00:57:49people actually died the deliverance side you can end up
00:57:53pretty messed up but you don't necessarily actually die under
00:57:57Dr. Freeman's false teaching on deliverance he had
00:58:00horrifically unbiblical views on demons Christians with
00:58:05demons deliverance the whole business we'll spend some
00:58:08podcasts in the future on that my point in bringing it up is
00:58:13Dr. Freeman thought of himself as somewhat of an authority
00:58:18on the occult and he said you know I've written this book
00:58:22every wind of doctrine and I've written this book angels of
00:58:25light and I've written this little tract on occult oppression
00:58:28so he had done a lot of study about cults and the occult and
00:58:34so we had a lot of material in his home that last evening there
00:58:39was a flurry of activity to get rid out of his house all of
00:58:45his books which were resource material for him all of his books
00:58:51on cults on demons on Freemasonry on anything that they thought
00:58:59listen to the crazy way they were trained to think that they thought
00:59:06might could possibly be the calls for Dr. Freeman's healing not being
00:59:12manifested that here this man is a faithful servant of God claimed his
00:59:17healing has done valid research on cults has taught on cults and now God is
00:59:24somehow going to not heal him because he simply has these books no I mean what I
00:59:32see there is just terrible fear fear and not knowing what are we supposed to do
00:59:38this man is going to die they're looking for any possible thing they can do to
00:59:46manipulate God into healing him they don't understand God as the great almighty
00:59:52loving and merciful heavenly father they understand him as you have to have
00:59:57every I dotted and every T crossed and if you don't if you have some sin in your
01:00:03life like maybe you have a book on Herbert W. Armstrong over on the bottom shelf of
01:00:09that allowed demons and their interference in the healing process into this house and we
01:00:17have to rid the house of all of this before we can expect God to heal him that was part
01:00:24of what was going on that evening and with that Dr. Freeman died later that evening it's it's been
01:00:34said by his daughters anywhere between 8 30 p.m. and 11 p.m. why there's such a big time gap in that
01:00:43estimation we'll we'll talk about that in the future sounds good and I'm looking forward to getting into
01:00:49that because there's so much to say about the demonology I remember my father had this whole
01:00:56collection of red books that were collections of Branham sermons obviously one of them was called
01:01:01demonology the religious realm or something like this I'm told that as my brother was being birthed
01:01:08in the hospital my dad had this open and was like reading in the hospital demonology and and the nurses
01:01:16would come in and look at that oh my gosh did he did he birth the child from Satan you know who knows
01:01:21what's going through their head but the the views that the movement has on this is a little bit skewed
01:01:26I'll just say it like that but look forward to it thank you so much for doing this thanks for having
01:01:31me John well if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information you can check us out on the
01:01:35web you can find us at william-branham.org for more about the dark side of the new apostolic
01:01:40reformation you can read weaponized religion from christian identity to the nar available on amazon
01:01:46kindle and audible
01:01:56and you can find us at william-branham.org for more information you can find us at william-branham-branham.org
01:02:01you
01:02:26you
01:02:56you
01:03:03you
01:03:05you
01:03:07you
01:03:08you
01:03:09you
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