- 16 hours ago
Essence Relationships and Wellness Director, Charli Penn talked to Spirit, Dr. Ayanna, and Dr. Sherry in a live conversation about Black Women and Trauma.
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00:00Good evening, everyone. My name is Charlie Penn. I am the Relationships and Wellness Director
00:05here at Essence Magazine. This is the Town Hall on Trauma and Black Women. Look, I'm not okay.
00:14You're not okay. As a community, we are not okay. I can't tell you how many text messages,
00:21chains, emails of people saying, I don't know if I can get out of bed. I don't know why this feels
00:25harder and more difficult to get through than so much of what we've already been through
00:30as a community, and in particular, Black women. As we all know, until we unpack this trauma,
00:36this hurt, and this pain that we were feeling, we will continue to carry it with us. That is
00:41something that we just cannot do. Tonight, we are going to talk about it. We're going to unpack it.
00:46We're going to deal with it. I invited three wonderful women who always drop gems when it
00:52comes to mental health and Black women to join me this evening to really unpack this.
00:57Please welcome clinical psychologist Dr. Sherry Blake, an Essence columnist, clinical psychologist
01:03Dr. Ariana Abrams, and licensed therapist and host of Love, Goals, and Own Spirit. Welcome, ladies.
01:10Thank you. Hi, Charlie. Thanks for having us. I can't thank each of you enough for making the time
01:17for something so important. It's heavy in our hearts. I would normally open this by saying,
01:21how are you doing? But I know how we're doing. We're hurting.
01:27So let me just start by asking each of you, let's just get right to it. What are Black women feeling
01:33right now? Like I said, I've had friends say, you know, I can't get out of bed. This is just too much.
01:39You know, I can't eat. I can't sleep. I'm crying through the day, right? We're all sort of
01:44simultaneously feeling such heightened pain, even more so than in some cases usual. So can we talk about
01:51what is this that we're feeling? What's happening? I don't know. I would just kind of jump in here
01:58and say, I think that the key word that you kind of alluded to, but went all the way around is
02:03exhausted, right? It's just that there is this overwhelming sense of exhaustion, but still having
02:09to try to figure it out. Because so many of us recognize that even through our exhaustion, we cannot
02:15stop. We are the head of our households. Many of us are still running single parent households. We are,
02:21you know, a huge number of essential workers, whether we are doctors and mental health providers,
02:27or we are the bankers or the corner store workers that are making things go. We are the backbone to
02:34the movement. I mean, even in this situation here, it was a young Black woman who catapulted all of this
02:40by being able to videotape the very thing that has brought this country to this precipice of this
02:46moment. So in all of that, we are exhausted, but we are energized and we are doing what we as Black
02:52women have always done, carry the world on our shoulders. That is, that is so true. In addition
02:59to that, you know, we are, we carry the world, but we feel and we hurt, we hurt like everyone else.
03:07And I think so many women out there, we stuff our feelings, we hold them in, and we experience the
03:14anger, the frustration, the anxiety, all those things, the depression, and feeling of helplessness,
03:21feeling of like, what do we do? How do we, you know, how do we move on? And so, you know, but as women,
03:28as we're taught to be strong Black women, and stuff it in and suck it up through the tears,
03:35and move forward. And I think sometimes, and that's why I'm really grateful for to have this
03:40today, we need to unpack that. We need to allow ourselves to feel, allow us ourselves to get in
03:46touch with what's really going on within us. Yeah. So I'd like to add to that, that, that all of that
03:53speaks to me in a way in that we're feeling really vulnerable. Yes. We're feeling really raw in all of
03:58this. We, there's, there's, there's fear that's there, right? That kind of goes along with the
04:03helplessness. And then that leads to this exhaustion of being heightened in this sense,
04:06time and time again, year after year, decade after decade of this, right? But we feel really
04:13vulnerable in this because we don't know what else we can do in this. So we do what we know how to do,
04:18right? Which is keep on ticking. Keep moving. Yeah. Yeah. It's what we do. It's like we are programmed,
04:25right? On autopilot, but we're feeling things. And I'm so happy that you all addressed the different
04:30ways in which we are feeling them. And for those people watching, I'll start with you, Spirit,
04:36how, you know, so often as black women, we're the last to be recognized in life and in death,
04:41you know, and that is traumatic. We feel like we don't matter. Our efforts sometimes feel like
04:47they're in vain when we're protesting, we're out there, we're saying, hear us, say her name,
04:51right? Be there. How can black women feel more seen? Well, you know, I don't even think that it's
04:58about feeling more seen because I think we recognize that we are literally the backbone
05:03of every movement. We recognize that time and time again, that we are going to jump in to save you.
05:10We are going to jump in and pick up the pieces. We are going to jump in even in spite of ourselves
05:16to do what needs to be done. And so I think more than it's about us being seen, it's about us being
05:22honored. It's about us being validated. And it's about somebody saying, sis, woman, wife, daughter,
05:29mother, I've got you. Let me hold you up. Because for so long, it has been women holding up women,
05:35and it's been black women holding up black women. But now we need everybody to rally around us so that
05:41we can continue to do what we do best, but also allow us to take off those superwomen capes. Because
05:47as you're hearing us all say, we are human, just like everybody else. That's a good point.
05:54Absolutely. Dr. Ayana, we are, I mean, anger, rage, frustration, right? These are words that we're
06:01all saying more regularly, I feel like, than many of us have in our lives. We're also saying that we
06:06feel triggered, particularly by news headlines, coverage, the things that we're seeing in the news,
06:12the actions of the police and our government. How are black women triggered in their daily lives?
06:19What does that mean? And can you give some examples? Yeah, I think that you named it,
06:24you called it, right? When we are exposed pretty consistently and constantly and pervasively,
06:30right, to images, to videos, to narratives that tell us that we're not worthy, right? Narratives that
06:37tell us that we're unsafe, right? The narrative that actually don't allow us to feel seen, right,
06:42in the larger picture, that absolutely begins to take a toll on you when that is what you are seeing
06:47as all of us do this, as we are scrolling and scrolling and scrolling, right? We wake up scrolling,
06:54we go to bed scrolling, right? That is what we are exposed to day in and day out with how many hours
06:59we spend on social media or watching news. And a lot of us not being able to kind of tease apart
07:06what's the boundary to set with feeling informed, kind of knowing what is going on versus feeling
07:12really overloaded and really overstimulated by what's happening, right? And some of us,
07:16what we're noticing is that there's a numbing that comes with that versus while some of us are feeling
07:20more activated in it, right? So I think anger is showing up in a lot of different ways for people,
07:26right? Anger in and of itself is a really useful emotion, right? It gives you data, right,
07:30about something that has felt, you know, in some way, some kind of violation that has happened
07:34for you, right? It's the consonants, it's the pervasive kind of anger, that fight or flight
07:40response, right? When your body's just constantly activated in that way, that's where we become
07:44more exhausted, right? And that's where the triggering comes in, that I don't really have
07:48a way to get away from this. Because this is, we've had week after week after week of incidents
07:54that have been in the news, right? It's also not being able to get away from the consistency
07:58of the racism and of the brutality.
08:02And Dr. Sherry, can you talk a little bit about how we're triggered at work and when our colleagues
08:07and our friends, because, you know, we're seeing a lot of articles like, hey, your Black colleagues
08:11are not okay.
08:12Right. You know, we're triggered every day. And I can't think of many settings where we're not
08:18triggered. Let me feel like this, work being one of them. And, you know, with that said,
08:24you know, it's the little things sometimes. It's even not the overt things. It's the subtle
08:29comments. It's the responses you get. It's a constant struggle. You have to do more. You
08:36have to be better. You have to achieve more. And you look around to your counterparts. And
08:41of course, that's not the same measuring stick for them. So we get triggered and we get reminded
08:47that we're Black. We get reminded not only by skin color, but by others' reaction around
08:53us. And I have tried to help people understand that has become a thread. That is part of the
09:01American culture. And I think that we have to understand that to understand how do we learn to
09:07respond? Because if we soak it all in and just hold it in, then we start believing what people say.
09:14We start believing that we're less than. We start believing that we can't. And we can't afford to do
09:20that. Yes, in spite of the rage and the anger and all the other things, we know who we are. And we
09:27have to, you know, be able to tell ourselves, we're only going to respond to those things that we know
09:33matter. Because what people say, you know, yes, it's very painful. But what is it they're doing? And how
09:40do we respond to that? And what are we going to do with that? So triggers all around us every day. And
09:48it's around our children. That's something else. You know, it's one thing as adults to be able to
09:53deal with this. But we're seeing it with our kids and the young ones. And they're responding quite
09:59different than we are as an older, more mature group. Because the young ones, hey, they said,
10:06listen, let's go out here. Let's burn something. Let's, you know, let's take our anger out in
10:11destructive ways. And so we have to remind them that, yes, you're angry. But what are you going
10:17to do with that anger? How are you going to make it productive?
10:21I'm so happy that you bring that up. That's really leading me to my next question. Spirit,
10:25I'll start with you. What do we do with this stress, this anger, this rage? How do we process it? And
10:34what happens if we don't process it properly?
10:36Yeah, well, you know, part of it that makes it so difficult is, and I tell my clients this all the
10:41time, is that you cannot heal while you're in survival mode. And so because we're in survival
10:47mode, we're in fight, flight, or freeze, we're not having the ability to really process what it is that
10:52we're experiencing. So we're just taking it in, we're taking it in, we're taking it in, and we're
10:57just doing our best to get through. We're still showing up at work unbothered. And so I want all of
11:02our coworkers to know that, that in the middle of a pandemic, when we're trying to take care of our
11:07parents and our grandparents and our children and our girlfriends and our colleagues, that we're
11:14still putting on a great face in the middle of not only a viral pandemic, but also a racial pandemic.
11:19We're trying to figure out still on the backs of this homeschooling and everything else that we've
11:24got going on. And many people are still sheltering in place and working from home. So there are so many
11:29layers to the stressors. And so what I'm trying to explain to everybody is, if you are not feeling
11:35it, understand that that is normal, but it does not mean that you are not experiencing it. And so
11:40your body is under pressure. And in particular, if you're not feeling it, then I want you to know that
11:46your body is probably even under more stress, because it's having to work harder to keep you
11:51disconnected from the feeling. So it's important that you take care of yourself, even when you don't
11:56realize that you need to eat every couple of hours, even when you're not hungry, exercise,
12:02even though you feel too tired to do that, go to bed and make sure that you're getting that six to
12:07eight hours of sleep a night. And I'm even telling my clients to control your environment, even when
12:11you exercise, you know, I had somebody earlier this week, they said, I feel absolutely enraged,
12:17I need to do something to get this out of my body, what do I do? And I said, I want you to get on a
12:22treadmill. And then I want you to cry and do both for as long as you need to. And what she said is
12:27she said, spirit, you know, I thank you so much. But what I actually did was I did a three mile walk.
12:31And then I was really more upset because the county that I live in, I kept seeing all of these
12:36monuments and flags, and it was right back to frustration. And I said, sis, that's exactly why
12:42I told you a treadmill, because you can control your environment. So then that way, you will not
12:49be unexpectedly triggered, which takes you right back to the very place that you're trying to get
12:54relief from. So we have to know how to take care of ourselves. And we have to remember, it is not
13:00your job to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm. And you also have to recognize that
13:05joy and happiness is the ultimate form of protest and resistance. So you have to find that in the
13:11midst of all of this and recognize you don't have to be on the front lines protesting in order to be a
13:17part of the movement. We need you in every place and space that you are, whether you're sitting in
13:22law enforcement or in a hospital or in a part of this conversation, you are a part of the movement
13:26and we need you there. So take it all in, but take care of you first so that you can continue to take
13:32care of community and also be a global citizen. Absolutely. Ladies, would either of you like to add to that
13:39before we move on. Yeah. What I was going to add to what Spirit is saying is that even in terms of
13:48how Black women pay attention to our bodies and where we are holding stress is really important,
13:52right? That we have been taught to kind of use markers of how other people hold stress and how
13:57it looks for them, typically non-Black people. And that's not the way in which we hold stress,
14:02right? So paying attention to your gut, paying attention to the tension that you hold here and
14:05your lower back, right? That is where we are more likely to hold our stress, right? So if we miss
14:10those cues and miss those markers, we do then kind of walk around like, I'm unbothered. I'm not feeling
14:15in this or this or this way and my heart's not racing in this way. Yeah, but how long your back
14:19been hurting? How long have you literally been holding this load and carrying the world on you and
14:26you begin to feel it in these ways that, again, we tend to misattribute, right? So also paying attention
14:31to all do these body scans and say, oh, something is hurting, right? And oftentimes that's attributed
14:36to stress. You're absolutely right. And the only thing I would add to both of that is that, you
14:42know, self-care, which you Spirit mentioned is so important. What happens is as Black women,
14:48we run on empty. We run on empty and we have no reserve. And that's even worse because when things
14:56happen like what's happening in society now, we have nothing. We're just like, you know,
15:01what more? It's like throw your hands up. But we have to understand that we're responsible for
15:08refueling ourselves. And we have to do that by taking care of ourselves, by creating that me time,
15:15by doing some things. And I love the idea of doing the exercise on a treadmill where you can control
15:21your environment. Because what happens is running on empty, you know, you're out.
15:27You're going to run out.
15:28You're out. I mean, you're just out.
15:30And you can't get anywhere on empty.
15:32And you cannot get anywhere and we ignore all the telltale signs. It's like driving down the road
15:37in a car and all your lights are coming on on the bed. You're low in gas, your oil light is coming.
15:44And we just keep driving. And pretty soon we're just going to fall apart. You're going to stop.
15:49And so we want to refuel before we get to that point, because that's a point that many of us
15:55we feel now because when it's like one more thing, it's like, what else can happen? And we're not able
16:03to function at that, at that point. And if you can't do anything else, let me say, have a good cry.
16:10Just cry. Yes. We're taught in our community to suck it up, hold it all in. You know, black men don't cry.
16:17Women. I didn't even know that it was a thing. We don't even talk about actually crying. We talk
16:22about cutting onions. We have tears. But as I explained, the toxin is in your body. The tears
16:31take it away. So if you can't do anything else, get it out. Fall apart. The world will wait for you.
16:41Fall apart. Recollect yourself and keep moving. But you need to allow yourself the space to get
16:48out. That's right. You're taking in all day. And trust me, the tears will stop eventually.
16:54I was just going to say.
16:56That is what I hear consistently from clients. If I start crying, I won't stop. And I'm like,
17:01have you ever heard that somebody has been crying for years? Right.
17:05It's going to stop. It's a biological function. Let your body do what it's telling you it really
17:11needs to do. Yeah. And, you know, I'm glad you guys are using like these analogies and really
17:16talking about it because I feel like for me, you know, when I'm crying, that's a sign that all the
17:21lights are on on the dash. Right. That's when, you know, I'm a happy, bubbly person. And I know so
17:26many black women like me, like you said, and we're just, that's the armor. Right. And then like, for me,
17:31it manifested, and I wrote about this in the last issue of Essence, it manifested as panic attacks.
17:36Out of nowhere, I just wasn't okay because I was just smiling, moving, smiling. But usually that
17:42right before those panic attacks was a good cry in the shower. Right. So to me, like you have to find,
17:47I guess, your own, like you said, your own signals. Can we talk a little bit about like a lot of women,
17:52I've heard them say, like, I'm just, like I said, I'm disassociating. Like, I'm not getting out of bed.
17:57I'm not responding to texts. Like, I don't want to talk on the phone. And, you know,
18:00we can't shut down, but I, but we do have to tell people how to treat us. So starting with you,
18:06Dr. Ariana, can you talk about some language we can use maybe for like our friends who are reaching
18:11out and saying, I want to be an ally, or for like a colleague, or even people in your lives that
18:17aren't understanding your depression? Yeah. One thing I do want to highlight that does,
18:21as I've been talking to clients and as I've been talking to other women, that what feels
18:24much more present in this space is white people reaching in to us. So white people being in our
18:31inboxes, these companies making statements, being in our text messages, you know, saying things like,
18:35I see you, I hear you, I'm reaching in, I'm reaching in, I'm reaching in. And I have a lot
18:41of clients and people who have been saying like, that doesn't feel comfortable for me. I don't want
18:45that. Depending on the person that feels, you know, kind of fine and safe, but it feels invasive
18:49in some other ways when I'm just trying to figure out what is going on with me moment to moment.
18:54And I think you can offer that, whether that be a thank you, and it can end right there. Whether
18:59that be a thank you, I appreciate it, it can end right there. Whether it be, I don't have it to talk
19:03right now. I'm not up for talking right now. I'm not in the mood to talk right now. And again,
19:09telling the truth about I feel exhausted, right? So even the same things that we have been
19:13talking about and kind of offering as language for ourselves, you also get to offer that to other
19:18people so they know that they are clear of how you are functioning, what you are doing
19:22and or what you are needing, right? Because I'm functioning this way, it'd be really great
19:26if this, right? But you get to set up your boundaries and you know your body better than
19:31anyone else does, right? You know whether you are setting this intentional boundary because
19:35you are trying to hold space for yourself versus whether you are avoiding because it feels
19:39like too much for you. Continuing to listen to your body, right? And if you do have safe spaces
19:43where you can be more transparent around that, tell the truth. Tell people what is going on so
19:48that you can even get a glimpse of what some assistance could look like, what some comfort
19:52can look like, what some holding and some grounding can look like for you, all right? Because we tend to
19:57do a lot of this alone, right? And then we make assumptions that people cannot be there for us
20:01because of past experiences. This can be an opportunity to allow people to actually be there for you.
20:06And one of the things I would want to add to that, it's interesting, you know,
20:10talking about wanting people in the inboxes and it's sort of invading this space. I had an
20:16interesting long, long text this week from a previous white client of mine that was apologizing
20:23on behalf of all the wrongdoing. And I thought it was interesting and I had, and I could hear and I
20:29felt her compassion, but she wanted to open it up for a whole discussion to sort of solve the world
20:36problems. And, you know, this is in the midst of them already to trying to arrest the other guys.
20:42And you have to learn to say, no, you have to put up those boundaries. Thank you, but not now.
20:48Thank you. But, you know, this is not the time. And I think sometimes we feel as women that we have
20:53to soak in and accept everything that people are bringing to us. And, you know, I could say,
20:58you know, I appreciate you reaching out. I'm okay. You know, in terms of, I'm not ready for this
21:04conversation. I'm not, you know, not interested, but at the moment I'm not, you know, I'm not doing
21:10this. And so we have to be able to say that because we get pulled in and then we're overwhelmed
21:16by other people's stuff. You have to separate what's your issue from their issue. And right now,
21:23that's not my issue. My issue is how do we feel safe? How do we survive to live another day? How are
21:30we going to make it to tell our black? And so we have to be able to put boundaries up.
21:35And that's critical because a lot of us, we, we allow people to invade our space.
21:41And I would say to, to kind of bring in what both of my lovely colleagues are talking about,
21:48it's a combination of the safe space and being able to communicate because people cannot respond
21:54to what you do not communicate. And we are not a homogenous group. As we know, it's black women.
21:59We are not all the same. And what a black woman needs is not what another black woman is going
22:04to need. So in this place, it was very important for me, for example, to create that safe space
22:09by bringing in all of my allies, by bringing in all of my friends. And I communicated that loud and
22:15clear. I needed my white friends and my Asian friends and my Hispanic friends and my African
22:19friends and, and, and all of my folks, I needed to hear their voice in this space. I needed them to
22:26cover me so that I could be vulnerable and fall apart. I needed them to talk to their white
22:31friends and to their Asian friends and to our Hispanic friends and say, you know what? You are
22:36not in this alone because for me, I didn't want to just hear about black people in this struggle.
22:41We have been trying to isolate for so long. I needed to hear the collective voice, but this
22:46is racist against everybody else. And for me, that's important. I need to know that whether
22:51you're in the Netherlands or whether you're in Australia, whether you're in, in Mississippi,
22:58that you got me. I needed to know that this is a human issue and that matters to me, but how it
23:04matters to me may not matter in the same way to somebody else. And the other part of that is this,
23:09that knowing that it's okay, you know, all get there differently, that we all need something
23:13differently. And what we need in one space may not be what we need in the next. And that's why
23:18communication is so important. And that's by letting our people know around us what we need
23:24is so important. Yeah. Yeah. Also being ready for it because again, you know, we're ready at
23:29different times. You know, we're ready for, you know, we can take things in at different,
23:33different pieces. And this is all about learning the communication and how you communicate and when.
23:40Yeah. You guys, before we go, I think it's really important that we talk about like how the other
23:46relationships in our lives are affected, particularly as black mothers raising children.
23:51It is, I'm not yet a mother, but it's breaking my heart to hear so many women say,
23:56it's the scariest thing in the world to raise a little black boy or girl right now,
24:01a pregnant friend saying, I hope it's not a son. You know, like we know these struggles all too much.
24:06And then having children now who are saying, why are people in the streets? What's happening?
24:10What are they angry about? And trying to explain that it's not safe for us in this country.
24:14So can you talk a little bit about dealing with that trauma as a parent, which is ongoing,
24:19because you are raising your children, starting with you, Spirit, and then Dr. Sherry.
24:24Okay.
24:24I was not going to cry. I had cried all day. I thought I was done. And then you talk about children.
24:29The kids.
24:30The kids.
24:30And for me, this is very personal because I have seven children, right? And so as I talked about in
24:36the wake of this pandemic, my oldest children are not with me. I haven't seen my daughter and
24:41touched her in three months. My son is on the other side of the country because we're sheltered
24:48in place. And so having to have the fear of watching them be out there alone and also watching
24:55them be impassioned and on fire. You know, I had to tell my son the other day, I don't care what is
25:01happening out there. You stay your butt in the house. And he said, you know, it's funny that you're
25:07saying that because my girlfriend told me the exact same thing. So maybe I need to take that
25:10as a sign, but I need to go out and be with my people. I need to be in the streets. And I had
25:15to say to him, son, while we are a collective group, you are also on the other side of the country by
25:20yourself with nobody that knows you. If you get arrested, if you get killed, hospitalized, you are
25:26a John Doe and we're in the middle of a pandemic and I can't get to you. And so while I understand your
25:31fire, for you to figure out how you protest differently, because we all have to be in
25:36our lanes. And so as I look to this, as I look to my oldest who are in college and college graduates,
25:42and then I look to my youngest who is two and my four-year-old said to me the other day,
25:47and it almost broke my heart when he saw the marchers and he said, why? And I'm trying to
25:51explain to him, he said, mommy, I thought you said my skin was beautiful. And to try to have that
25:58conversation to him that not everybody in the world is going to see him, this beautiful little boy that I
26:05see with the same love and the same adoration and the same possibility. And so it's a very tough
26:11thing to explain this to our children who also model back and forth. That is, as much as there
26:17is hard times and rough times and hate in the world, we still have to stay in the light. We still have to
26:24find our Black girl magic and our Black boy joy. And again, that is the ultimate act of resistance.
26:29And so we have to continue to resist and continue to persist, but not just in survival mode. We have
26:36to thrive. We have to thrive. Absolutely. And I would echo the same thing that as we are talking
26:44to younger children, adolescents, older children about what they are experiencing and what they
26:49are seeing, it is our responsibility to ground them in how awesome we are. Ground them in the power
26:56right that we have shown across centuries, right? That this is who they are. This is where they come
27:01from. Because we know that the narratives will tell them different. We know that the books will
27:04tell them different. We know that some of the teachers will tell them different, but we get to
27:08offer them this way that grounds them so that when they are faced with these things that they walk into
27:12the world, they have a backing. They have a whole foundation that's rooted in there, right? And they can
27:18only kind of veer but so far from that. Those are the conversations to have. We know that as Black
27:23families, we will have to have the talk and several talks as they kind of hit different age points or
27:28in different, you know, social groups or any of that kind of as they become to be more and more
27:32autonomous. You continue to keep them grounded in who you, they are and who we are and who we are as
27:38this collective. And that's actually something that can allow them to kind of move in the world,
27:44right? In that way, with more power, right? Yeah. And vibrantly.
27:49Absolutely. Dr. Sherry, would you like to add anything as we close?
27:52Yes. You know, what both of you say, I did know. I want to leave people with the understanding as we
27:59talk to our children, as we talk to our grandbabies and especially our boys, we have to leave them with
28:04a sense of hope. You know, although things are upside down right now and people are in the streets,
28:10things are happening all around us. We have come through so much in the past and we will get through
28:16this, but you cannot just give up. You have to go out. You have to vote. You, we don't, I feel like
28:22we have no choice because it changed. Does not come easy. Change never comes without resistance,
28:29but we have to be a part of it in a productive manner. So I say that, you know, there's hope.
28:35We're going to keep hope alive. We're going to push forward in spite of what we see and what we hear,
28:41because we know that if we do it collectively, we will get there, but it's not easy. And we just
28:48can't fall over and say we can't because we will get there.
28:53Thank you ladies so much for this important and impactful and powerful conversation. I want to
29:00say to everyone out there, these, all of these women are licensed therapists, counselors, women
29:05like them are out there for you. They're out there for you. If you think you need help, get help. You
29:10get to feel your feelings. We will continue to have important town halls like this one, because we are
29:16all in this together. We love you. Love can be hate, beat hate. And ladies, thank you so much for your
29:22time. Thank you for offering this. Thank you. Keep talking mental health. Yeah.
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