- 23 hours ago
ESSENCE Deputy Editor Allison McGevna sat down with three experts, Krystal Nicole Duhaney, Asaiah Harville, and Carmen Green to discuss all things Black women and breastfeeding.
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00:00Good afternoon, everybody. I am so happy to be here to be having this discussion in Black
00:16Breastfeeding Week. My name is Allison McGevna, and I'm the deputy editor of Essence. And we have
00:22such a great show for you guys today. It is, as I said, Black Breastfeeding Week, and we are talking
00:29all things resources, information, challenges with some of the greatest experts in the business and in
00:37the industry to help you on your journeys and to help the women who you love in your circles. And
00:44I'm just really excited to get into it. So I'm going to introduce you to our incredible panel today,
00:50starting with Crystal Nicole Duhaney, who's the founder of Milky Mamas. She's a registered nurse,
00:57international board certified lactation consultant and breastfeeding mommy of two. And her products
01:03were so integral to me in my journey of breastfeeding, which I just ended a couple months
01:09ago. So Crystal, welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you, Allison. You're so welcome.
01:15Our next panelist is Asaya Harville, who is an international board certified lactation consultant
01:21at MLK Junior Community Hospital in Los Angeles. So welcome, Asaya. Thank you. Thank you so much for
01:29having me. And a breastfeeding mama of two. Oh, okay. I love it. I love it. Breastfeeding moms
01:36unite. And then our final panelist is Carmen Green, who is the vice president of research and strategy
01:43at the National Birth Equity Collaborative, where they create solutions that optimize black maternal and
01:49infant health through training, research, advocacy, and community centered collaboration. So welcome,
01:55Carmen. Thank you so much. Glad to be here. I'm so glad to have you all here. Now, I wanted to start
02:02with if you guys could just kind of explain how you got into doing the work that you do, specifically
02:09serving, of course, breastfeeding mothers, but specifically serving black breastfeeding mothers,
02:14aside from, you know, your own journeys, I would love to just hear, you know, how you started. So
02:20Crystal, let's start with you. Yeah, so I started this company after I struggled to breastfeed my first
02:26child, my son. And I went to my healthcare provider and said, Hey, I'm having trouble. And he said,
02:31just skip formula. And he didn't really give me any resources, which was really disheartening.
02:36So I used my own knowledge, and we struggled our way to breastfeeding for over two years. And when I
02:42became pregnant with my daughter, my second child, I knew that I just wanted a better experience. And
02:47then I also began to share stories with other moms and realized that they were having the same
02:51experiences, specifically moms in the black community. So I knew that something had to change.
02:56So I began researching ways to support both my breastfeeding journey and others and became a
03:02lactation consultant, an international board certified lactation consultant, and also developed an amazing
03:08line of products to help support and promote lactation, and created a really amazing community
03:14to help educate and empower breastfeeding mothers of all types and all colors and nationwide and worldwide.
03:23And it's really, really near and dear to my heart. And it's hopefully we can change the breastfeeding
03:28rates in the black community with the extra support and education.
03:32That's wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing. And Aseah, I'd love to hear about your journey
03:39and what brought you to the work that you do.
03:44You're on mute, sis. I do that all the time, too.
03:49Yeah.
03:50My journey started, you know, personally as well. And I will say it didn't start with me. It actually
03:55started with my mother, who breastfed myself and my sister 30 plus years ago, when breastfeeding
04:01really wasn't a thing, right? It was something some people did, but not a whole lot of people. So I
04:06always, that's where my starting point was, because my mom changed our family tree just by breastfeeding
04:12my sister and myself. And then fast forward to myself. I had my first daughter when I was young,
04:18I was 20 years old. But I knew I was going to breastfeed because I knew my mom breastfed. And for me,
04:23that was all I really needed to kind of get me that start. I was able to breastfeed her for 18 months.
04:29And my second baby, who is two and a half, we actually just finished breastfeeding a few months
04:35ago. And I just really was empowered by my mom. I feel like I had a ton of family support with
04:42breastfeeding. And for me and my family, that was what was normal. And it wasn't until I really
04:48started working in the hospital setting about seven or eight years ago that I realized that wasn't the
04:53norm for black women and for women of color. And I didn't really understand why. And so one of the
04:58things that I really made it a mission for myself to do was to become that support that I had for
05:04these other women and these other families, so that they knew that they could do it too. And that's where
05:10my work kind of started. And, you know, fast forward seven or eight years later, I'm supporting black women
05:16and black families. I became an international board certified lactation consultant a few years ago, and have
05:22been supporting families in the Los Angeles area for several years now.
05:28That's incredible. Thank you for sharing. And Carmen, I would love to hear about your journey as well.
05:34Absolutely. Thanks again. Well, my research focus and my focus as a VP at National Birth Equity Collaborative
05:44is all for black family wellness, really. And that's my mission. So in undergrad, I was at Wake Forest
05:52University, and I first learned about the huge gap between black maternal and white maternal health
06:02outcomes and our infant health outcomes. And so right then, I just became a freedom fighter. So I continued
06:09on that line of study through sociology and public health at Tulane. And at that point, I started to
06:17look at my own reproductive health journey and think of our relationship with our bodies as black women
06:25and our relationship with our breasts, independent if we have any traumatic experiences lurking in the
06:31background or not. And at that same time, I was there with and supporting my very best friend and line
06:39sister who had a son and learning so much about pregnancy and childbirth and what an incredible
06:48transition that is. And her son passed away. And so in that moment, and it was only, you know, a month or two
06:57after his birth. But in that moment, I started to realize that, you know, we have so many things to unpack as black
07:04families with breastfeeding. So at the same time, in grad school, I was on the foundational team for
07:11national birth equity collaborative, and began to research more and write more and become really,
07:17really ingrained in this passion. But moving forward, in my studies, I'll be a doctoral student
07:24in sociology at the University of California, San Francisco, and wanting to, again, focus on
07:30applications of reproductive justice and black feminist theories on what black family health
07:35and wellness looks like. You know, what does culture change look like? Because all of you all
07:39are breastfeeding mamas, but I'm not there yet. And so I'm really anticipating on when I become,
07:45you know, become a mother and start that journey. But I want to walk into that world, knowing that,
07:51you know, we're all taken care of. I want to be part of the change in the world that I want to
07:56be in when I'm a mother. So that's how I got started in this journey, for sure.
08:02That's incredible. And I just, I salute you all so much. You know, this is a deeply personal topic
08:08for me. I had gave birth to my son in July of 2019, had a very traumatic birth experience.
08:15And, you know, when I had my C-section, I was actually not able to start breastfeeding my son
08:25immediately after birth. And it was very, very challenging for me. And I knew even in my own
08:31personal journey, you know, while I was pregnant, many, many women close to me and all black women
08:38or women of color, but black women specifically, I had several, you know, women I knew who in my
08:46pregnancy alone lost children. And so it really, I think, opened my eyes, you know, you read statistics,
08:52but when you're kind of going through it, you really, really experience, you know, just the
08:57critical nature of it. So I very much wanted to breastfeed and did. And I successfully breastfed,
09:04not quite as long as I had wanted, but you know, I was happy to be able to take the journey,
09:08but really was reaching out and looking for a lot of resources. So I want to start with the basics,
09:14because this was a question in my journey that I had all the time of just, you know, why is
09:20breastfeeding so critical, right? It's, it's something that I think we know, and we know that,
09:26you know, that it's the first food, but really, you know, Asaya, maybe you could speak to why the
09:32process is so critical to the health and vitality of our children.
09:37Sure, absolutely. So, you know, I think now most people know, oh, yes, there's, there's benefits
09:43to breastfeeding, right? There's benefits for the baby, for the immune system, those sorts of things.
09:47But I don't really, I sometimes wish people really knew what the truth was behind that. And the truth
09:53is, is that breast milk and human milk cannot be recreated. It cannot be reproduced. It cannot be
10:00duplicated. Your milk is very specific to your baby, and your milk changes to meet your baby's
10:08needs throughout development. So we have this first milk that's called colostrum. And a lot of times,
10:13I see it in the hospital where mommies think, oh, well, that's not enough. It's not enough. I don't
10:17have enough milk. That milk is the perfect amount in the perfect quantity of the most perfect setup of
10:26things that your baby needs to build this immune system that they're really born without, right?
10:30And so when we talk about benefits for baby, let's talk about building that baby's immune system and
10:36reducing risks of many diseases and disorders that we in the especially in the black community have
10:43come to think of as common or normal. So things like reducing the risk of asthma, of allergies, of
10:49tummy issues, so gastrointestinal things, earaches, ear infections, right? Those are
10:55some of the benefits for baby. But I think people also don't know that it also helps them lifelong.
11:01So when you breastfeed your baby, it actually helps to reduce their risk of childhood obesity,
11:06of adult onset obesity, of things like diabetes. So it reduces the risk of diabetes, heart disease,
11:14other heart related issues and cardiac related issues. For baby girls, it actually helps to reduce
11:20their risk of getting any of the female cancers. So the hormonal cancers like breast cancer,
11:25ovarian cancer, uterine cancer. By you breastfeeding your baby girl, you are reducing her risk of
11:32getting those things. But it's not just benefits for baby. I think also people don't know that
11:37there's benefits for mom, right? When we talk about the infant mortality, we also have to address the
11:42maternal mortality and things like postpartum hemorrhage and other things that unfortunately take
11:48the lives of our mothers and black mothers more so than others. So by breastfeeding your baby,
11:54you help to reduce your risk of postpartum hemorrhage. So that's that excessive bleeding
11:59that can happen after delivery. You also reduce your risk of getting other issues later in your life.
12:05So things like heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, those same female cancers that you're
12:11protecting your baby girl against getting when she gets older, it's protecting you against getting as
12:16well. So your risk of breast cancer, ovarian cancer, uterine cancer, all of those things are reduced by
12:23breastfeeding your baby. And so things like that, I think people don't really, there's just a general
12:28sense of how the health benefits can impact the baby. But they're so specific and so numerous in number
12:35that oftentimes, you know, people just don't even realize what they're doing to help protect and
12:42promote the health of their family just by breastfeeding their baby.
12:46Absolutely. That's such valuable information because it really, I don't think people
12:53understand the depths of how critical it is. And Crystal, I know, you know, again, for my journey, I
13:00loved your products. They were super helpful for me. They helped me extend the amount of time that I was
13:06breastfeeding. I didn't get to breastfeed as long as I had wanted to, which is something that I think a lot of
13:12black mothers that I know are struggling with and mothers in general, but you know, black mothers,
13:16especially, I feel like there are a few things of even if you breastfeed for, you know, a couple of
13:22months or a couple of weeks, and then you might struggle and you know, maybe you kind of make it to
13:27six months, which is great, like however long you can make it is wonderful. But you know, I see a lot of
13:33debate about how long to do it, how to extend it, you know, and you know, a lot of people talk a lot
13:40about like, when your kids have teeth, that's the time to stop, you know, everybody has these cultural
13:44ideas around it. So I'd love to hear from you just as someone who's business as a healthcare
13:49professional, and then someone whose business helps women extend that journey, you know, about
13:53the timing and why there's such a stigma around it, and what kind of challenges women face in their
14:00own personal journeys. You know, I think any amount of breast milk for your baby is beneficial. So
14:06whether you breastfeed for a week or a year, any amount of breast milk is beneficial. One drop of
14:12breast milk is full of so many nutrients and germ fighting cells. So that's really important. I think
14:17it's important that you celebrate your journey, don't compare with anyone else's and just celebrate
14:23your accomplishments. Additionally, I think that the amount of time you breastfeed is up to you.
14:30I think worldwide, the average weaning age is about 2.4 to seven years of age, depending on what culture
14:36and what country you visit. So there really is only, unfortunately, in America, where we have those
14:44kind of societal, you know, backlash when we see a mother or parent breastfeeding an older baby per se.
14:51But the World Health Organization does recommend that you give your baby breast milk for at least
14:56two years. The benefits of breastfeeding don't stop, even when your baby has teeth. Just because
15:02they have teeth doesn't mean that they can't breastfeed. Some babies are born with teeth.
15:06So I really think that it's up to you and your baby and that as long as you understand the benefits
15:11of breastfeeding and know that those don't end and that the longer you do breastfeed, the longer your
15:16baby is getting those benefits is super important. Thank you so much for that. And, you know, you bring
15:24up a great point of, you know, seven years old, you know, I kind of chuckle at the idea of that,
15:30but I realize that that's my own conditioning around, you know, kind of how long you should
15:35breastfeed. And Carmen, I would love to talk to you on the advocacy side a little bit about,
15:40you know, black women, we have a very long and complicated and emotional and heartbreaking history
15:48when it comes to breastfeeding in our history, going back to slavery and then, you know, trauma
15:55and things that we've just been through that we carry. And so I would love to talk a little bit
15:59about, you know, if the politics of it, if you will, you know, because there is, and there are
16:06politics involved. So could you break down for me just, you know, the history of it and why it's so
16:11critical for us to talk specifically about black women and breastfeeding? Absolutely. Well, we all
16:18know, hopefully in this audience that black women have been taking care of humans since the beginning
16:25of time. And we continue to do that. I learned a lot from a book I read from Kimberly Seals Allers,
16:34who is a major breastfeeding advocate, called The Big Letdown, How Medicine, Big Business and
16:40Feminism Undermine Breastfeeding. And so in that book, I learned so much about the history on how it
16:48was culturally removed from us. And it's now being given back to us so many hoops and hurdles and face
16:58these barriers on how we normalize and shift back and really and grasp that practice
17:03for everyone. But the perspective of reproductive justice is one, you can have as many children as you
17:12want, you can choose to not have children at all, but you should be able to raise those children that you
17:17have in a safe and sustainable community. And the very first part of that is personal bodily autonomy. So
17:24that means, you know, as long as the baby is fed and that baby is healthy, we want to honor and respect
17:31that. Well, it's about the personal bodily autonomy of that mom, if she wants to do so or not. And
17:37thinking of all of the ways that breastfeeding is undermined. And if a black mom wants to breastfeed
17:47and take that practice back for her family and provide for her children that way, there should be
17:52no structural thing that is blocking that. There should be no interpersonal thing that's blocking
17:57that ability. So advocacy-wise, you mentioned NBEC is doing policy advocacy. That's a huge part of our
18:06organization. So one, linking up with all the black woman-led maternal and infant health organizations
18:14that's affiliated with Black Mamas Matter Alliance. So thinking of roles and black mothers breastfeeding
18:22association, even those really cross-sectorial alliances like Health Connect One or Baby Cafe USA,
18:35talking about breaking down structural barriers in New Orleans and shout out to NOLA Baby Cafe.
18:43But when there is not resources and ways made to provide access to black breastfeeding, then the
18:57community needs to take that on and do it ourselves. So at National Birth Equity Collaborative, we share
19:04office space with NOLA Baby Cafe. And just being able to sit with those IBCLCs and talk with moms that are in and out of the community,
19:13it's a real blessing. And we think through different points of advocacy for them as working moms,
19:23especially thinking about COVID, workplace policies, paid family leave and sick leave is critically important
19:31because if you don't have enough time to even get into the flow and the routine of breastfeeding,
19:37it's highly unlikely that you'll continue. And so, so many black mamas are making those decisions
19:42based on their work situation. And that's a structural barrier and policies thing that we need to think
19:50about. Workplace policies like if they have adequate breaks, if there's a sink and a place for sanitation,
19:58if there's a refrigerator to store the milk that you just pumped out, and if there's a private place to
20:04pump other than the bathroom that everyone else is using. So those are the type of policies that we
20:09talk about frequently, and that are moving at varied paces across different states.
20:16Absolutely. Thank you for that. And, you know, I, when we talk about policy, and we talk about just
20:23real support, I remember, you know, again, I, in my journey, I think it was very, very, you know,
20:31difficult to have been struggling and not happy with my doctor, not happy with my experience. And
20:37then in those critical first few hours, I did have, you know, I guess I should say first few days,
20:46you know, I did have the support of a lactation consultant, but I didn't, my lactation consultant,
20:53I really struggled to find a black lactation consultant in my area, a black doula. And maybe it
20:59was, it was probably part of the fact that I didn't maybe know the resources to look. And so I was just
21:03kind of like looking around the hospital and hoping that I would, you know, interact with one, but it's
21:08a very intimate and emotional moment, right? Your hormones are crazy from just giving birth. And, you
21:15know, then you have someone in the room, and it's just like, you know, pull out your breast, and I'm
21:19going to show you how to latch. And, you know, you're trying to figure it out. And you're, you know, you
21:24think you're doing it right. And then another person tells you, you're doing it wrong. And
21:28there's a whole thing that you have to go through, right? So I would have loved to have had
21:33a woman who looked like me to help me through the journey, as much as I appreciated the lactation
21:38consultants who I worked with, who are wonderful, I really would have, I think I just, that was
21:43something I was seeking in that time. So I say all that to say that the diversity in the industry
21:47seems to be an issue. So I would love to hear from you guys just about, you know, what are the
21:52challenges why we're not seeing that diversity? And how do women not end up where you're just
21:58hoping you'll run into one who looks like you or who understands your unique needs? How
22:04do you really actively seek out black lactation consultants and doulas?
22:12I think that you just, you know, unfortunately, there aren't very many resources. But there are
22:17organizations like Blacktivist and Black Breastfeeding Week and Black Moms, you know,
22:23Alliance, there are organizations that you can reach out to that have these resource lists of
22:28professionals that look like you. I think that we need more. I think that we need more resources and
22:35more availability. But the truth of the matter is, is that the, I believe there's 135 or 35,000 total
22:44lactation consultants worldwide. And a very, very small percentage of them are actually Black or
22:49women of color. So we just need more in general. Hopefully soon, that will happen. At Milky Mama,
22:56we are working on a, we just launched a scholarship fund to help certify and educate more Black
23:01lactation consultants. So if you're interested, please apply, because we'd love to see more in the
23:05lactation field. So I'm really hoping that that changes so that we can have more representation.
23:10Because although other races and other lactation consultants are very knowledgeable,
23:15sometimes it takes someone that looks like you experiences those same experiences and injustices
23:21and disparities that you've gone through to really help guide you and give you the support that you
23:26need. Absolutely. Yeah. And that was, you know, that's really what it is, is you feel like you just
23:35want someone who understands kind of what you've been through. And, you know, I say, I would love to
23:40know just in terms of, you know, the world has completely changed in the last six months with COVID. And
23:47we were already operating at this total dearth of diversity and Black female lactation consultants and
23:55doulas. How has COVID-19 further impacted that? And what are some of the ways that women who are
24:03preparing to give birth or in the, on their breastfeeding journey in this time, what are
24:08some resources they can look to and, you know, how can they prepare themselves for an even bigger
24:14challenge at this point? That's a great question. You know, I say that I feel so much sympathy for the
24:20women who are pregnant and having to give birth during this crazy time. I mean, imagine you have this,
24:26you know, mental picture of what your pregnancy and birth experience is going to be like. And then all of a
24:32sudden a pandemic hits and you're being told, not only can you not have your family members and your
24:38support persons in the room with you, but you're lucky if you can even see a doctor in person during
24:44your pregnancy, right? I know here in South Los Angeles, several of the clinics have closed for
24:52in-person prenatal visits. This is a critical time when you have questions, especially imagine being a
24:58first time mom and having questions about your pregnancy, about what's going on. And you maybe
25:03get a five or 10 minute telephone visit with your provider who you may or may not actually ever see
25:09again, because most likely that's not the person who is going to be present at the hospital to deliver
25:14your baby. And besides that, you know, things like how do you identify what support looks like or should
25:22look like when you are maybe being told you can't have a support person in the hospital? I know several
25:29of the hospitals locally have allowed one visitor, which has been great, but it makes it difficult for
25:36the mom to choose. Does she choose her mother who has delivered a baby before? Does she choose her
25:41partner? Does she choose her sister? Does she have a doula? Does she know what a doula is? Is there access to
25:47that additional support for her to deliver during this crazy time? And so I know one of the things
25:53that we have done here in the Los Angeles area is this is actually based on the African-American
26:00infant and maternal mortality disparity that we have nationwide, but also obviously mimics in Los
26:06Angeles. There were created several community action teams to address the disparity for African-American
26:13infants and mothers. And out of those community action teams and those meetings, we were able to
26:19establish a partnership with the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health to provide free
26:24doulas for Black women in the Los Angeles area. And they were provided funding. They were provided doulas.
26:31Our doulas were able to transition to a virtual space. So the moms who were able to get this doula,
26:38and it's a free doula, and they get full services with this doula, they were able to transition to
26:44virtual support. And so the mommies here in South LA who were able to connect with the doula are still
26:50able to get that additional support and education and information that likely they're not getting from
26:56their clinics anymore. That will include prenatal education about breastfeeding because our doulas went
27:02through a training to become lactation education specialists. So they're able to still continue
27:08to receive that information, to receive the education, receive the support that they need,
27:13so that hopefully they don't feel as isolated and as alone as they otherwise would if they didn't have
27:19that support. I'm happy to also report that here at MLK Community Hospital, we are allowing partner or
27:27one support person and the doula as well. We consider the doula to be an integral and essential part of
27:33the birthing person's journey and their labor. And so from the beginning, even when the pandemic just
27:39started, we identified the importance of having a doula present because this doula has already created
27:46a rapport with this family. All of the doulas for the LA County doula program are black. So it's like
27:52you were talking about having someone that looks like you that you can relate to. So they're able to come in to
27:58our hospital, they're able to be present with the mom, they're able to be present with the partner, to answer
28:04any concerns that they might have to be supportive. And I think that we've seen that that's actually helped the
28:10moms to feel a little bit more comfortable. We talked a little bit earlier, you guys talked about the disparities for
28:17lactation professionals and lactation consultants. And like Crystal said, there are very few of us who are not going to be a
28:20And like Crystal said, there are very few of us. It's less than 1% nationally. And so think about how many
28:26babies that impacts, how many moms, how many families that impacts to not be able to access
28:32a black lactation consultant, someone that you can really reference, someone that you can have a
28:38rapport with, someone who looks like you, someone who you just feel comfortable with. So there definitely needs
28:43to be more programs where we are encouraging black women to get into this field, get into the birth
28:48worker field, become a doula, become a lactation specialist, become an international board certified
28:53lactation consultant, because all of those things help to be help to provide solutions for these
28:59challenges that we're facing.
29:03Absolutely. And I love that that's such great news and such great resources. And, you know, we need,
29:10we need all the positive news we can get. So thank you for sharing that. Carmen, I would love to also,
29:16you know, just kind of touch on what Isaiah was saying. And that, you know, even if you are not
29:23currently breastfeeding, or even if you, you know, are not a mother, or, you know, even not a woman,
29:29you know, at this point, it's like, you know, looking to people in our community, I don't think we ever
29:33need to tell, you know, black women why to care about each other, where we are always at the center of
29:39uplifting each other as a community. But why is this a community issue? Why is this bigger than just when
29:45it's your own breastfeeding issue? And why do we really need to put that investment in our,
29:51as a community behind it? I think you're on mute.
29:57I sure am. Thanks. A couple of things that you all said about the workforce had me thinking,
30:07I do want to uplift a couple of the doula trainers and certifiers that are black women led as ancient
30:15song doula services in, in New York City, their sister midwife productions in New Orleans, Louisiana,
30:23and also Shafia Monroe birthing change in Portland, Oregon. And these are all black women led
30:28organizations that do doula certifications. If we want to enter into this field, that is a major touch
30:34point. And mind you, um, people are doing virtual meetings and virtual, um, appointments, but doula
30:43certifications and, um, CLC certifications are also going virtual. So this may be a good opportunity for
30:49you to, um, enter into that field because creating a pipeline for birth workers, it shouldn't have to
30:57be all on us. It's also a systems responsibility. The systems know that black providers, um,
31:04we get great outcomes, then it should be a system's responsibility and responsibility to make that
31:09happen as well. But, um, like I said earlier, community is always going to do for ourselves.
31:15Community is always going to pick up the slack and, um, and make things happen. So, um, I know a couple
31:22examples of just like, um, Crystal said, uh, creating a pipeline, making sure that young women are getting
31:29trained to be, um, uh, certified lactation consultants. Think about being trained right
31:35out of high school as you're entering college. Now you have your own business. You know, now you have
31:40a way to take care of yourself as you take care of community as well. Um, and a couple other things
31:45I do want to uplift as far as, you know, us taking care of each other. There's, um, on a,
31:52of the Chantelle Norris that the Alabama prison birth project, and she started the mother's milk
31:57initiative. And this was a way for her to make sure that incarcerated moms are able to provide for
32:04their infants as well. So she would support them. She made, you know, all the connections, all the
32:10necessary connections, and she would support those birthing people and transport their milk to their
32:17infants. I mean, pack it up, freeze it up and drive it to wherever it needed to go. And it is, um, it's
32:23advocates and activists like that who are, who are helping to make that change and like really uplifting
32:29this issue in the community. Um, another one I want to uplift is the, the impact of climate change
32:36and, and movement for breastfeeding. And it was a sister in Canada, an indigenous sister in Canada who
32:42really educated me on this at first. And I'm hating, I'm forgetting her name, but she was talking about
32:47how, um, uh, you know, imagine it's hurricane season. People are going to be moving, but if you don't have
32:56safe water and your formula feeding, we have to really think through access and possibilities
33:02for feeding our infants, because wherever there are birthing people, there's going to be infants
33:06that need to be fed. And so we can think about, uh, advocacy that impacts our communities in all
33:12these different ways as the world is changing. That is such critical information. And I just,
33:20I'm so grateful to you guys. I really would love to continue our conversation. Um,
33:25but of course time, time gets away from us. Right. But the good news is we have plenty more
33:30on essence.com, uh, for the rest of black breastfeeding week. And I would love to also
33:36just encourage our audience to make sure that they are following all of you and you know,
33:40the organizations that you work for or that you own, and that we are really, really making sure that
33:46we stay, uh, educated and on top of things and know that we're not alone. I think that's really
33:51critical that, you know, we have each other. Um, so we will be sure to again, you know, put your,
33:58your social handles and your links in our comments. I am so, so grateful to you guys for
34:03this conversation and for the work that you do. It's so important. It's critical. And we just uplift
34:09you collectively here on that front. So thank you guys, please, thank you for more and we will talk
34:17soon. Have a great rest of your day. Take care.
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