- 22 hours ago
A discussion between Black moms and white moms about raising children and more in today's political climate.
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00:00Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Mother to Mother, what we tell our kids.
00:09I'm Jodi Patterson. I'm a mom of five, and I'm also the chair of the board of the Human Rights Campaign Foundation.
00:16And today I'm here with some incredible women who are also moms for hopefully a very vulnerable and valuable discussion conversation between black moms and white moms.
00:26The goal today is to speak candidly on what we teach our children and what we can teach our children when it comes to race and color and privilege and power.
00:36As a mom of five children growing up in America, there's nothing else I want to speak about right now.
00:41There's no other conversation that I want to have rather than this one.
00:45I'm proud to be part of this circle of moms, and hopefully we'll be able to chat about mothering with a capital M.
00:51For me, mothering is building. It's taking a 360 look at the process of mothering, right?
01:00And this determines the strategy of keeping us all together, keeping our families together and strong.
01:05I'm here with some great women. We have entertainer and mom of three, Alison Holker.
01:11Actress, star of BET series, First Wives Club, and mom of two, Ryan Michelle Bethea.
01:17The chief strategy officer of the Riveter and mom of two, Giovanna Gray Lockhart, an actress, producer, designer, and mom of three, Sarah Jessica Parker.
01:30Welcome, moms.
01:31Thank you so much for having us for having us here.
01:35So I want to start, I just want to take a pulse check, right?
01:38If you can, where are we today in this very moment as moms?
01:42There's a lot on our plate. But if you can all just give me one word, if you can, what does it feel like right now to be mothering in this time?
01:54I'll start.
01:56I think if I picked one word, it would be vulnerable.
02:02You know, we, as parents are in a very different place where our kids really want to hear from us.
02:10They want to be involved. And that can be scary, but it's also very inspiring to me.
02:16But I think as a mom, what I'm learning that I really want for my kids is to see that I might not have all the answers.
02:24You know, and I want them to feel comfortable with coming to me and asking something.
02:29And I might have to say, we're going to have to figure this out together.
02:33You know, I don't need to have all the answers as your parent, because I still, like, I'm still a student in life.
02:40You know, and that's scary as in real.
02:43Yeah, I hear you on that.
02:45Yeah.
02:45Brian, Michelle.
02:49The word that keeps coming up for me is, is, is terrifying.
02:52You know, there's so many things that happened these, these past couple of months and weeks.
02:59The world has turned on a dime so quickly at every point that I'm so used to, you know, we build for our children this, this sort of, like, schedule, right?
03:12Everything is scheduled and they like consistency.
03:16Children need consistency as long as you're consistent.
03:19And that's the one thing that we can't, I feel that I can't give them right now, because we have no, I just feel like from moment to moment, I have no idea what's coming next.
03:30And without being able to provide them that sort of, I'm trying to redefine what consistency means for me, so that I'm not so terrified, you know, so that that word doesn't take on such a, a meaning that, that I, I can't achieve.
03:48I have to readjust my expectations and readjust what consistency means so that I can provide that for myself and then my children.
03:56Flexibility is terrifying for people who like routine and schedule and control mothers, right?
04:05Yeah.
04:05Jovanna?
04:07Frankly, I've been humbled.
04:10I didn't realize how much my kids needed me as a working mom who, you know, has set up a great life for them.
04:19I thought that beyond the basics, they were, they were covered, they were okay.
04:25But my choices, the words I use, the choices that I make about the type of work I do, the type of conversations and people I have around me, that's really shaping who they are.
04:38And so I've just, in this moment of reflection, really found myself being humbled by the task of raising them.
04:46Yeah.
04:46Beautiful.
04:48Sarah, Jessica?
04:49Um, I think the word that comes to mind lately is, um, vigilance.
04:57Um, and I think in large part because of what so many of you have said, um, partly because the conversations that are necessary, that are important, that are often heart-rending, that are inspiring, are really complicated.
05:16I, you know, I, you know, I have a son that's complicated, I have a son that's almost 18, I have daughters that just turned 11 last week.
05:21So the tone of the tone of the conversations are different, um, uh, the urgency, the urgency of the conversation, you know, changes as, as has been described, you know, time collapses and things are changing so radically.
05:36There's really exciting, there's really exciting, there's really exciting, there's really exciting, there's conversations about what is happening on the streets and why.
05:44And, and, and, and it, it's, um, confounding as described, you know, it's, um, it's really challenging to get it right, to not have the answers.
05:55But I say vigilance or to be vigilant because I don't want to give up as sometimes to retreat because it's overwhelming, because I don't have the answers, because it changes, because there's so much grief and we're talking about it and feeling it and seeing it.
06:14And I don't want to be, um, confounded so much that I step back for a minute, because there just doesn't seem time anymore to make that choice.
06:25So I try to be as vigilant, I try to talk about it and read them, try to understand the questions they're asking and how far they want to go and how much do I want to push.
06:35Um, but we all sort of have demanded it of each other around the dinner table in passing.
06:42And I just don't want to give up, even at its most uncomfortable.
06:48So to be vigilant as a parent right now, it's my goal.
06:52I think that the word vigilant is so important.
06:55I mean, we look at this moment and it feels like nothing we've ever seen before.
06:59But if we talk to our parents, it's a very similar moment.
07:03I mean, if you look at 68 when King was murdered, and you look at today in 2020, when George Floyd was murdered in public view,
07:10we can see that there after a moment when everyone is charged up in 68 and coming together, there have been rollbacks, right?
07:20And I'm so vigilant is vigilance is so important to stick with our eyes wide open.
07:26And I'm curious to know, by show of hands, how many of us have shown the video and shared the video of George Floyd with our children?
07:39Yeah.
07:40So three out of five.
07:42How and this is, you know, how do we share such a heavy, such a brutal moment with children?
07:49Can you explain how and how you did that?
07:54I just want to because people are curious.
07:56Moms are curious.
07:57How can we give them the truth?
07:58How can we inform them without breaking them?
08:01Well, I'll say that I was terrified to see it.
08:05You know, I I read about it.
08:08I kept hearing about it, but I was I was afraid of the brutality.
08:14I don't think I I know I'd never seen anything like that.
08:18And and I didn't want to offer it as something I felt my children should see until I understood what what the impact would be on me and how I might find words, how I could convey.
08:33Not only my reaction, but why I felt it was necessary.
08:36And they are just 11 new 11s, but they were talking about it and talking about it and talking about it.
08:44And they were consumed, I think, in a healthy way.
08:48By what they felt was happening.
08:50So, you know, my my 17 year old son, very different than shepherding my 11 year old daughters.
08:57And I assume some people might find it irresponsible.
09:00It's arguable whether.
09:03But I know what my parents did.
09:06I know what they made me hear and listen to and watch and witness.
09:11And I think I'm better for it.
09:13So I made the choice as a parent and it fired up my daughters.
09:20It really I mean, they don't need to see it.
09:22They don't need to.
09:23They don't need to.
09:25It's not something that I feed them.
09:27It's no overdosing of it.
09:28Yeah.
09:28Yeah.
09:29But I think, you know, they've not exhibited.
09:33You know, you're I mean, that hasn't affected them, except that they want to be active citizens.
09:40They want to see the kind of change that they believe and understand this country promised.
09:47Yeah.
09:48Allison, how about you and your family?
09:50Well, you know, my daughter, excuse me, sorry.
09:53My daughter is 12 years old.
09:56So I feel you on that.
09:57Like there's a lot of heaviness with allowing her at her age to see this video.
10:04But I felt it was very important.
10:07Now, I didn't need it.
10:08I didn't show the whole thing, though.
10:10You know, I think I gave her a clip into it, which I think she felt the energy of it.
10:14She understood what happened.
10:15But I also feel like we allow our children to see these movies with superheroes, with all this content.
10:26They play these video games, but then we don't want to show it in real time, in real time, in real time.
10:32These things are in movies because they're telling a story of what really happened at some point, you know.
10:37And so if we're going to allow our kids to see these battles and these fights happening, I think it's important to say that this isn't fake, you know.
10:48And it's really it's hard and it's heavy, but this is a real thing that's happening.
10:53And another point that I've actually learned that I didn't even realize, I think, fully in my brain as a parent at this time, is our kids in elementary are doing drills for school shootings.
11:05Yeah, you know, and so these kids are way more aware than we even already understand.
11:14So I think the dialogue is very important to start in the household where they feel like they can bring up the awareness.
11:23And I know this is very scary to bring up, but I'm just going to kind of go there.
11:29My daughter was in the LAUSD public school system out here in L.A.
11:34And they had, this is very scary to say, a bomb threat at the LAC program a couple of years ago.
11:44And they were allowed at school for two weeks while they searched all the schools.
11:49And my daughter was only in fourth grade and had to be like, Mom, we told they we were told they told these kids openly what had happened.
11:58They couldn't hide it from the kids.
12:01But so since my daughter was in fourth grade, we had to start having these discussions that were, I mean, no one expects it as a parent to be having those conversations, especially at an age like that.
12:12But that's why these kids, when I look at Gen Z and I see them on the front lines protesting, they're very aware of what's happening.
12:20And they wanted to move this.
12:22You're absolutely right.
12:23You know, and I know it's really scary to bring that up, but that happened to my house.
12:26I had to go home and talk to her about it.
12:29Yeah.
12:30I'm glad you're bringing this up because as you're frozen on my screen, I hope I'm not interrupting.
12:37But I'm glad that you're bringing up what we can do at home to combat what we're experiencing in our schools.
12:43Our children spend so much time in school, and what I'm noticing is there are these Instagram pages that are being set up by alumni from some of our most prestigious schools, some of the highly recommended places to send our children for education.
12:59And the students are telling stories of racism and discrimination and unjust treatment that are heartbreaking.
13:06We know them, but every time I read them, I'm like, oh, it makes me so scared and sad and angered.
13:11How are we addressing as moms what they're experiencing in school?
13:15Because for so many years, it's gone unaddressed.
13:19And I want to know if we're talking about how has any of us talked about what they're experiencing in schools?
13:28Jodi, I thought it was interesting when you asked us to show our hands.
13:33And Ryan, Michelle, and I did not raise our hands.
13:36And I have a four-year-old and a five-and-a-half-year-old.
13:40And so while I didn't show them the video, I did talk to them about what had happened.
13:47And I didn't do it right away because I honestly didn't know how.
13:51And I had a text chain with other mom friends all discussing how, when, what's the right age.
13:59And what we came up with was talk about something you can do and then work it back from there.
14:06So we organized a little family-oriented protest in this tiny town where we're quarantining.
14:12And that's when the kids asked, okay, what does Black Lives Matter mean?
14:17And while my kids don't understand what privilege means at their age, they do know what it means to be lucky.
14:24So to answer the question you just asked, I mean, we're raising our kids in New York City intentionally, despite how difficult and expensive it is to do so.
14:36But because we want to make sure that they grow up with diversity around them, because by virtue of the fact of being our kids, they're going to have a certain amount of privilege.
14:47So talking about that at an early age, I've noticed was the right way in with them.
14:53And then talking about race and police.
14:57And I mean, gosh, the superhero thing is really tough because my four-year-old son is obsessed with superheroes.
15:04And he thought that policemen were superheroes.
15:07And I said, no, they're not.
15:10It is.
15:11But he could take it in at this age.
15:14It wasn't so crushing.
15:16I think if I had waited, it would be different.
15:19So if anything, I wish I had started talking to them about race sooner than now.
15:25Do they see race, in your opinion?
15:28Yeah.
15:30Absolutely.
15:32Ryan, Michelle, do your children see race?
15:35Oh, absolutely.
15:36I mean, yeah.
15:39My oldest son is very, very, very aware.
15:44He's always just been very aware and present.
15:48Like, I, you know, I tried very hard to keep Santa Claus in the house.
15:53By four and a half, he was like, if there was a Santa Claus, why are there homeless children?
15:58Why doesn't Santa Claus bring them home?
16:00I had absolutely no answer.
16:03So he's just been that aware as, like, just that kid.
16:08And we also, we live in Los Angeles, too.
16:11So we've had to be very mindful because that's, that's actually one of the reasons why we put him in a public school system.
16:19Because I didn't know how to navigate the private school system in Los Angeles as a Black mother with a Black child, right?
16:29And a Black husband.
16:31I didn't know how to navigate being an angry Black woman if something happened to my child.
16:37I didn't know how to navigate him being seen as difficult.
16:43So I've noticed that in some of our most prestigious schools across the country, places where we are sending our children to with faith that they will educate them,
16:54our children are experiencing race and prejudice and unfair treatment.
16:58And a lot of alumni are setting up IG pages that describe the pain that they've gone through and the racism that they've experienced.
17:08I'm wondering how parents, how mothers in particular, how we have addressed that at home.
17:13Do we have the words to help our children navigate what they're experiencing, the racism that they're experiencing at school?
17:21Anyone?
17:21Well, I'll, I'll jump in because I, I have two Black children and my oldest is in the elementary system.
17:32My youngest is still in preschool and we made a conscious choice, my husband and I, to put him in public school, particularly because we felt like, I personally felt like I didn't know how to navigate.
17:48I went to a public school myself, but it was also, I experienced a ton of racism.
17:53It was a very privileged community in Stanford, Connecticut, Fairfield County.
17:57For those of you on the East Coast, you know what I'm talking about.
18:00And while it was not a private school, it may as well have been given the resources.
18:06The economics.
18:07The economics that we had.
18:09So I actually made the choice to put my oldest in public school because I knew that in the public school system, particularly here in Los Angeles,
18:17and the school that we sent him to, which is a language immersion school, that the majority of his teachers would be Brown.
18:24You know, he doesn't have any Black teachers, but he has a, he had a Brown principal.
18:29And I felt more comfortable because I know that Brown children often, you know, have the same struggles as our little Black boys and girls.
18:39And I just felt more comfortable that way.
18:42And I didn't want to put him in a situation where we, he would have to fight every single day.
18:48And have you had to follow up experiences that they've, that, that they've had at school, at home, at the dinner table and sort of break them apart and help them navigate their school experiences?
19:00Or have the experience has been perfect?
19:02No, they have not been perfect.
19:04There have been a few instances.
19:09And my child is not perfect.
19:11Please, to be clear.
19:13You know, but there have been a few instances and we had to just sort of talk through with him.
19:19And my, my husband is a much more, you know, I feel like he's exposed our children to things a little bit earlier than I wanted him to.
19:27If I had, you know, had a choice, but, you know, we, he, he's very mature, my oldest, and we have had to talk certain things through.
19:36We have had to say, we've had to explain to him, yes, this racism exists in the world, but it's still your responsibility to match your behavior when you can to, to meet the moment.
19:48And I'm not going to be with you all the time, and you are going to have to meet the moment.
19:53Yeah.
19:53Yeah.
19:54And it's interesting because I think as, as our, as our families change, as our social groups widen, our children are seeing the world differently, oftentimes, than we do.
20:05I mean, I'm a mother of a trans child, a genderqueer child, and they see, in many instances, the world differently, right?
20:11And so, because of the way we marry and how diverse our families are, oftentimes, moms are forced to see the world through our children's eyes.
20:19And so, I'm curious to know how that's affected us.
20:23Have we changed, have we changed the way we've seen police brutality?
20:27Do we change the way we see race because of our children?
20:30Does anyone?
20:30Well, I will start by saying, you know, my husband is black, and my oldest daughter is 12, and she's white, but then we have two mixed children that are four and seven months old.
20:41So, it's a very interesting dynamic because my daughter kind of came into this and had to learn a lot, right?
20:49So, our conversation-
20:50The older daughter.
20:51Huh?
20:51The older daughter.
20:52Yes.
20:53Okay.
20:53She was 12, and, you know, I think something that's been very important is we are seeing this police brutality, which is kind of raising all these conversations.
21:05But beyond just that conversation, what I've been talking with my daughter about is being 12 years old, there's racism starting at schools with just conversations, just in tone, in teacher discipline,
21:20in the healthcare system, and seeing who thinks you can handle what kind of, you know, there's just, it's all over the place.
21:30So, I wanted to teach her that at your age, you can actually spot it and hopefully bring some awareness to someone, maybe if they say something inappropriate.
21:38You know, so I think sometimes people forget there's so many different levels to racism, you know, and it's in so many different places.
21:47You know, and it's her job, you know, when being the older sibling of these two younger, like, she might at some point, even though they're very young now, she might have to step up for them at some point.
21:58Mm-hmm.
21:59100%.
21:59And her friends, you know, because we are fortunate to be here in L.A., and her, oh my gosh, I love her group of friends.
22:07It's so diverse, everyone's got their own opinions, and they talk about these topics.
22:12But being that she is white, I was like, I want you to know you do have a privilege, but with that, you need to know that we do not live from it.
22:21Yeah.
22:21Speak from your privilege.
22:22Do something with it.
22:24Yeah, do something with it, but don't abuse it ever.
22:26You know, like, that's not what we do, and it starts at your age being aware of it, you know, and so I know she's had conversations with her friends, you know, but if you hear something at school, you need to step in, you know, and so, you know, it's, I think sometimes people jump to that top, too, when there's so many levels.
22:46It's so deep-rooted that those conversations are important from the, you know, the whole way up the ladder.
22:52And I think the other thing that's really been enormously transformative is that, you know, you can think you've lived in a progressive home, and you've had conversations, and race and equality has been part and parcel of, you know, the way you live your life, the way you parent.
23:16But then something happens, specifically the killing of Mr. Floyd, and the plates shift, and you realize that they're seeing race now in an entirely different way because it commands the conversation shift.
23:37And what I think is important is also to talk about, like you've just mentioned, you know, access to healthcare, how are we funding our public schools, housing, issues of wage, you know, all the things that play a huge part in all, I think, are hand in glove in this conversation about equality.
24:00And so, you know, when we think we've talked about race, we haven't, if we can't have the far more global conversation, I think, about the ways in which inequality has insidiously sort of been accepted and what we can do about that as well.
24:22And how do we want to be active citizens, and that's about, like, voting, and why is it so important for young people to work on campaigns, you know, that's what I grew up doing.
24:32I couldn't vote for government, but damn sure my mom made us work the polling places and drive, you know, drive people to the polling places and knock on doors and canvas and lick envelopes.
24:43And that is how you get involved.
24:45So the conversation, I think, has fortunately allowed for the, you know, the other parts of these, this puzzle that needs to be addressed and solved.
25:02And you grew up, who knew, I didn't know, as an activist, in an activist family.
25:07And I'm sure that shaped the way that you're approaching now, and I want to hear a little bit more about that.
25:13I want to ask this question.
25:14So if we are looking at, just take Black Lives Matter as an example, there are so many nuances to that, because we have not all been taught to connect the dots, right?
25:27And so we'll see that we have to remind folks, Black Lives Matter also means Black trans lives matter.
25:32And that also means Black women, their lives matter, right?
25:35And so if we're looking at the very nuanced conversation of alliedship, how do we teach our children?
25:43Let's say we didn't grow up as activists.
25:45How do we teach our children today to be activists and to be allies?
25:49What does real alliedship look like?
25:51Anyone take that?
25:52I know it's a big conversation.
25:54We can all get to it.
25:56I didn't grow up as an activist, although I was one in my heart.
26:01And so my parents were forced to sort of, like, make room for that where they could.
26:07But for me, representation matters so much.
26:11And electing Black women has been something that I've focused on in the last few years, working closely with Higher Heights, an awesome organization that helps fund Black women candidates.
26:21I just think when my kids see me doing that work, when we have candidates to our home for an event, they're there in their pajamas, usually, you know, sitting down in the living room, listening to what these candidates have to say.
26:34They may not understand it, but when I explain this woman wants to represent us and the things that we care about to protect all of the people in this country and to give people opportunities that you have, but not everybody else has.
26:50And I think that's the way that I show up, at least as an ally for them, because it's just, that didn't exist when I, you know, growing up in the 80s, I mean, it just, it wasn't the same, unfortunately, as Sarah Jessica's experience.
27:08But hopefully my kids will take that on and become activists themselves when they have a little more, a few more years under their belt.
27:17Demonstrating, modeling.
27:18Ryan, Michelle?
27:19Yeah.
27:20Yeah, that is, that's excellent.
27:23I mean, I think the best way to be an ally is to use your vote.
27:27You know, in the most concrete way.
27:29I mean, I've gotten, you know, so many Black women have texted me like, girl, how many white people have asked me what they can do?
27:38And it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's kind and it's thoughtful, but it's also overwhelming.
27:44I'm like, I don't know, but I'm so glad you said that because it's true.
27:48Vote.
27:48Vote, vote, organize, canvass, vote.
27:51Vote, organize, canvass.
27:52You can go to Ballotpedia and find out all of the ballots and races throughout the country.
27:58You can be involved.
27:59You can send $5 here.
28:01You can look a stamp here.
28:02And that's-
28:03Voting is key.
28:04Voting is the most direct action if you want to be an ally, put Black women in office, put Black trans in office, put people in office who are going to fight for our rights and represent us, and then hold those people accountable.
28:18I think another thing with allyship is I've heard someone else say this, and I just found it to be very profound and resonated with me that it's not enough to say that you're not a racist.
28:31It's just not enough.
28:33It's just not enough.
28:34You've got to sign petitions.
28:35You've got to let your voice be heard.
28:36You've got to have those conversations with someone that you might have known has said something inappropriate.
28:41You know, it's speaking out and making people own up to the fact that they need to maybe have their eyes opened, you know, instead of just sitting back and letting stuff keep happening and keep going by and keep going by.
28:55You know, it's voting, but it's also signing the petitions.
28:58It's donating money where you can, you know, and getting involved with your local communities.
29:04I think sometimes people forget that there's so much you can do for your town and your little, like, neighborhood that would even make a change, you know, and it might take you one day out of the year that you go volunteer your time and really get involved and see someone, actually a person.
29:18But I think we forget sometimes as a community that you actually can physically go out and do something.
29:24I love what you said.
29:25It's not enough to say I'm not racist.
29:27And I also would say it's not enough to say with words I believe in diversity and inclusion, right?
29:33We have to actually live life that way.
29:35And I remember a few years ago I looked back at my Facebook friends and I said, well, wait a minute, my Facebook community looks just like me.
29:45Black woman, cisgender, educated, over 40, mother, upper middle class.
29:49Well, that I thought was a good thing, but it's actually not realistic to the world.
29:53It's not even representative of my family.
29:55So I'm curious to know.
29:56And so I made a conscious decision to expand my friend group and my children's to include gender diversity and many ways being diverse.
30:07I'm wondering how do your children's friends group actually look versus what you would want them to look like?
30:13And are you actively working to expand your friend groups on your level and on your children's level?
30:20Anyone can take that.
30:21I will say that it's my children's, once again, three children, different lives, different personalities.
30:34But there is some diversity, but it's not satisfying.
30:39And, you know, that's, you know, in large part due to, you know, the school, you know, how those circles sort of, so it is something we talk about.
30:52I don't think for me that my circle professionally and personally is diverse enough.
31:00And it's, you know, I think it's something we actually talk about a lot, but it's, you know, and so how, you know, how do you grow that authentically?
31:13Where are you, where is there a place for you to, you know, to reach out?
31:20How do you, you know, and I had that same awkward moment.
31:24No, yes.
31:25It's awkward, but I actually took the awkward moment and I made it even more awkward, but more intentional.
31:29And I told my children, we don't have any friends who are gender non-conforming, trans, intersex, and queer.
31:36And this year, all of our friends, all of our new friends, keep your old friends, but your new friends have to be intersex, gender non-conforming, trans.
31:45And they thought that was really strange, but it's the only, you have to be very intentional in terms of expanding our friend group.
31:51And so, again, I will put that out there.
31:53How diverse are our friends and our children's friends?
31:56I mean, I feel very fortunate.
31:59I think my husband being black, me being white, we're also dancers.
32:05And I feel like the dance community is very, very all, everyone is welcome.
32:11And so, I feel very fortunate that our friend group has always been very diverse, gender-friendly across the board.
32:20And a lot, I mean, our friends coming over, I mean, you're going to get one of everything, if I'm honest, which is beautiful.
32:27And I feel very fortunate to have been a part of that and seeing that.
32:30And my kids get to see that.
32:31So, my kids' friends' groups, as well, are just as diverse.
32:36I feel like, but I will say it's because I'm in the dance community, you know, and it's-
32:42Chosen family.
32:43Yeah.
32:44You know, so, even if I'm honest, a lot of trans and in the gay community, a lot of them feel comfortable in the dance community because it's where they can express themselves.
32:54So, they all fall into that category because it is such an open, warm place for them.
33:00So, I do feel very fortunate that that world that I have grown up in has always been that way.
33:06So, I didn't even know any different from myself.
33:10Sarah, Jessica, are you about to say something?
33:11I was just going to say, you know, because I am an actor and I've worked in, you know, the theater and film and spent a lot of years in fashion.
33:21And, you know, part of that is far more fulfilled.
33:27I think the place that we, as a family, socially lack is in color, frankly.
33:33You know, I work in the theater, so it's a fairly integrated community.
33:39And, you know, lots and lots of gay friends and trans friends and it's been a huge part of my life, but I think it's color, frankly, that is lacking.
33:53And, you know, that's the area that I feel is underserved in our lives in a way that's more meaningful in the way you've described and requires that awkward, you know, that maybe mandated.
34:10Mom mandated.
34:11How enormously satisfying to find those new friendships, by the way.
34:17How good for all of us.
34:18And it takes some time.
34:20I'm glad that you recognize it.
34:21It needs to be mandated by moms.
34:23We need to give ourselves some time, but we will evolve.
34:25Well, I want to make sure that we get one last question in, which for me is, as a mother of a Black child and anyone here on the panel, a mother of a Black child, can you give us some direction for our listeners who are non-Black folks?
34:41What is it that you would like us to know about your child who is Black?
34:45And how was your suggestion on fostering equality, equanimity between Black children and non-Black children?
34:55It's huge.
34:56That is an enormously huge question, but it's also a question that I deal with every single day.
35:03I want, we have a very diverse friend group, right?
35:08And I want my white friends to know, my white mother friends to know, that when I send my child with you, I hold my breath for, like, just a minute.
35:24Yes, the typical mom, my child's leaving, but also, I don't know how to express to my white mom friends, please, you've got to have an extra eye for my Black son.
35:37Because if my Black son is playing with your white son, and somebody drives by and says something to a police officer, my son is now, his life is in danger.
35:49And I don't know how to have that conversation with my white mom friends.
35:54Because I feel like if I do, I don't know if I'm going to be met with, you're playing the race card, or that's ridiculous.
36:01And that would hurt me so deeply.
36:04So as a mom, I'm constantly in this situation where I just want to be free to express to you as a white mom what I'm feeling as a Black mom, and how I see the dangers that my Black son has to go through, that I wish I could share with you.
36:21I wish I could share that with you.
36:23I wish that I could share these things in a safe space as a mom, without you feeling like I'm making something up.
36:29That's my one wish, you know?
36:32So powerful.
36:33If I give my child to you and let you go with them, there is such a level of trust that I've developed with you that you've got to know what that is.
36:48It's open conversation.
36:49It's open conversation between moms so that you can then see my children.
36:55So you can see me, and then you can see them.
36:57I want to thank you for being so open with that answer, and I know we have a closing moment to happen right now.
37:04We can't go on all day, although I could speak with you all day about this.
37:07Giovanna, just can you give me a thought in response to what we just heard as a mother of white children?
37:13Just a closing thought, and then I'm going to close up with a few words as well.
37:17Sure.
37:18I thought it was beautiful what you just said, Ryan, Michelle.
37:22And I, as a white mom, would be very open to having that conversation if you and I had kids in the same class.
37:29So I am open to those conversations, and I'm open to changing my behaviors just as I'm open to creating the space that women need to have, right, in our friendships or professionally to say,
37:43let's just get it out there and talk about it, and not just talk, but act.
37:48I think that's the thing.
37:49Like, we're grown women.
37:50We know how to do things, right?
37:52We know how to make things happen.
37:54It means that we know how to make changes in our lives, in our friend circles, in our kids' lives.
38:01So I'm committed to creating that space in my life and my family for that.
38:06Thank you so much.
38:07I just want to say thank you, Allison, Ryan, Michelle, Giovanna, Sarah, Jessica.
38:11This was more than I wanted, more than I expected.
38:15I would love some more talk with you, but I appreciate the honesty, the openness, and I hope that, as moms, we realize it starts with us.
38:22We are the leaders of our teams, and if we are going to change anything, it's going to happen in the home and then hopefully beyond in the world.
38:29So thank you so much.
38:30And all the listeners, thank you for tuning in.
38:32I would love to be the same.
38:33You ladies are amazing.
38:35We had to do dinner.
38:37Yeah.
38:38Great.
38:39Thank you guys so much for the open space.
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