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00:00Kip Winger is a bona fide classical composer now.
00:05The guy that when I think back to like Beavis and Butthead making fun, Kip was chosen.
00:10As the poster child of all things to make fun of, unfairly treated as.
00:15Like a talentless hack, but he's having the last laugh.
00:20Welcome to this episode of Talkin' Rock.
00:25Don't forget to follow the audio-only Talkin' Rock podcast on all podcast platforms.
00:30And now, it's time for today's conversation.
00:33Here's Meltdown.
00:35Rod, good to see you.
00:36You know, I've been in this business 36 years.
00:38I think this is the first time I've had it.
00:40A chance to talk to you.
00:40I think I might have met you once decades ago, but I don't even remember, and I'm sure you
00:45don't either.
00:45So, good to see you.
00:47Great to be here.
00:48You know, I grew up in Buffalo.
00:50And it's kind of funny because I've been in Detroit now for the past 30 years, but you
00:54have this tool called.
00:55It's called the wing thing, and where I come from, it's a little bit different than a tool.
01:00It's a tool for drummers, I suppose, but that seems to be everywhere, man.
01:03That's taking off for you, eh?
01:05It's very exciting.
01:06You know, I'm probably going.
01:10Going back 40, 50 years where I had my first idea.
01:15For a product, and then it never came to pass, but then when.
01:20My ears started ringing full time after, it was almost near the hundred.
01:25100th concert of Winger on tour with Cinderella and the Bullet Boys back in.
01:301989, I came off stage, my ears were ringing like they always ring.
01:35And I woke up the next morning, and the ring was still there.
01:39So, this is.
01:401989, the ring never went away.
01:42And so, one thing led to another, and I started using.
01:45I started using shooting range headphones, and then I discovered that the sound.
01:50The sound was so good, having like a 24 decibel drop.
01:55And then when I had to learn on some, learn some new music for the next Winger record.
02:00I was using a Walkman, if people remember that, and I put the speakers.
02:05Upside down on me and with the isolation phones.
02:10And then I was able to listen to the music super quietly instead of blasting.
02:15How it always had been, you know, in a recording studio with a traditional headset.
02:19And one thing.
02:20Something led to another, and I brought the idea of isolation headphones.
02:25To, oh my God, like, I can't remember how many companies.
02:29Everybody said, right.
02:30God, there's no need for an isolation headphone.
02:33And ultimately.
02:35I sat down with Vic Firth, the owner of Vic Firth Drumsticks, and sold him on the.
02:40idea, and they've become, you know, this ridiculously popular item.
02:45And so I realized, hey, you know what, maybe you have a knack for products.
02:48So I'd say about 30.
02:5030 or 40 years ago, I had the idea to come up with like a.
02:55Drummer's Survival Toolkit, and then as the years passed, I thought.
03:00Finally found someone to partner up with and sold him on the idea.
03:05of having like specialty tools for drummers.
03:08And so here we.
03:10have, you know, there it is, the wing thing, I mean, it's unbelievable.
03:15How much time and effort, blood, sweat, and tears it takes, you know, just to get a.
03:20product like that one conceived and manufactured and then.
03:25You know, when you're just two people trying to take care of every aspect of running a business.
03:30It's insane.
03:31But at this point, you know, a couple years in, we have so many.
03:35drummers using it and praising it.
03:38It's very flattering.
03:40Recently, we received a photograph of.
03:45Russia's new drummer, Anika Niles, smiling for the camera and holding.
03:50Using the tool.
03:51Well, how did that happen?
03:52Well, Neil Peart's drum tech.
03:54Um.
03:55Um.
03:56Lorne Wheaton.
03:57Uh.
03:58Somehow he came across.
03:59Somehow he came across.
04:00He came across.
04:00the tool loves it and now he's working with Annika for the upcoming
04:05rush to her and sent me and my partner a photo of her holding it and he said
04:10use it as you wish you know we're fans of the tool and so
04:15you know little by little getting other people using it Jimmy Clark Lars Ulrich
04:20he's got a dozen of them because on the rush
04:25on the Metallica tour there's like four drum sets or something so he has one parked
04:30by each drum set and then he wanted 12 of them you know so
04:35and Mike Portnoy's drum tech Jose Baracchio and on and on and on
04:40Mike Mangini Ray Loser it's great it's great so um we're doing it
04:45everything we can to just get the word out there and uh very exciting it really saves
04:50your hands and your fingers um I don't know if you've ever played drums but
04:55as a drummer if a long time passes before you loosen a wingnut you can't
05:00and so usually drummers clumsily take their two sticks they put it over the wing
05:05nut and you know crank it to loosen it and then when you're setting
05:10up uh a symbol stand or any kind of stand if you don't crank it hard enough
05:15I still had this happen not cranking things down enough
05:20you know you slam a symbol and then either it starts spinning if it's on a on a
05:25uh you know on a symbol stand that uh has uh the
05:30the um the what am i a symbol stand not a um boom
05:35boom boom Sam thank you um and um
05:40so instead of like clumsily using drumsticks or really hurting your hands
05:45uh you just put this beautiful tool over the wingnut and gently crank
05:50to tighten or left to loosen all right no it looks great I mean I am not a
05:55drummer by the way but man that's a lot to unpack right there you just
05:57brought up a lot of things but uh uh Anna
06:00nika niles I mean do you know anything about her are you gonna go see these
06:03these any of these rush shows with her
06:05yeah uh I'm gonna make every effort to to go to
06:10at least one of the shows they're doing four in new in new york city
06:13so I might go to that
06:15I'm not sure if they have a long island show
06:17plan uh I've never I've never met her or
06:20seen her play live but I've seen a lot of video clips and she's amazing she's like
06:25a fantastic fusion drummer mm-hmm okay so
06:30so many chops and very well versed in polyrhythms and you know
06:35odd time and playing over the bar line amazing yeah and it's like uh
06:40the way I've been talking about on the radio too it's like if if Alex and Getty give her the seal of
06:44approval I suppose
06:45I suppose that's good enough for me yeah and in fact it's so funny talking about right
06:50um back in I think it was november december of 19
06:551885 and january of 86 uh I was the the dixie
07:00dregs had disbanded until further notice but steve morris our guitarist
07:05asked me if I'd like to continue playing with him he wants to start a trio called
07:10steve morris band so um so I started playing with steve we did two records the
07:15second album was called stand up and it had a couple of vocals on it we had uh
07:20alex ligertwood who was the singer with santana at the time and albert lee
07:25the great guitarist um and we we
07:30got three legs of the power windows rush tour and
07:35we wanted we wanted we wanted to do the vocals so we brought uh you know
07:40a local singer guitarist um on tour with
07:45us and did like 45 shows with rush so we all got to know the
07:50those three guys extremely well and um in fact the first time
07:55the first time I ever traveled on a tour bus this is before I was in winger right winger
08:00happened in 1988 so I'd never been on a tour bus and when we got to know
08:05uh neil alex and getty fairly well um
08:09um
08:10um
08:10one day they just put out the offer they said hey if if one night
08:13as we
08:14you
08:15travel to the next city any of you guys want to come on the bus with us you're
08:18more than welcome
08:18so
08:20i traveled you know on their tour bus which was just the three
08:25of them in their tour manager
08:26uh
08:26um
08:27and got that whole experience for the
08:29um
08:30first time in my life they're three of the nicest gentlemen forget the
08:34music
08:35relationship or in addition to just being the musicians that they are
08:38um
08:40they went out of their way to make us as their support band
08:45feel special
08:46and
08:47and i just
08:48like two days ago
08:50finished reading um
08:51getty lee's
08:52my effing life
08:53yeah yeah yeah
08:54what have i
08:55and
08:56knowing him
08:58you know or
08:59you
09:00having gotten to know him like i did on tour
09:02uh
09:03i can
09:04you
09:05feel every word that's coming off the pages i i feel his
09:10personality
09:10and i hear him speaking the words he is such
09:14a
09:15a lovely human being
09:16yeah i would
09:17yes interview obviously i've interviewed getty
09:20an interview to alex i've never met uh neil of course neil was always kind of an enigma
09:23uh but
09:24wrapped in a mystery but i did get to read his uh his book ghost rider did you read that one
09:28yeah i sure did
09:29i i was somehow i got on a on a mailing list of getting a lot of
09:34his things or rushes uh recordings and neil's book
09:39books you know the side projects that they do yes so um
09:43you
09:44oh my god i have so many neil pierce stories because um
09:48i
09:49you know i i got to spend a fair amount of time with him too
09:52he shunned being in the
09:54spotlight
09:55he was
09:56i don't want to say he was a shy human being
09:59he just didn't want to have to um just sort of
10:04talk
10:05gibberish or
10:06things
10:08of
10:09non-importance to him well he seemed like the kind of person haven't never met him that didn't didn't
10:14enjoy the adulation no no no he he was not
10:19not in in it for that reason at all it was just to push himself but i but
10:24but
10:24since we're talking about him i just have to tell you like a quick story so a typical
10:29day on the road with rush back then again i'm telling you it's 40 years
10:34ago neil um in later years he got into the
10:39you
10:39motorcycle but when i met him he was riding his bicycle he was a serious
10:44cyclist and if if the next show was within a
10:49150 miles he would not go on the tour bus after
10:54the show to the next city he would sleep in the town that we played and get
10:59up at the crack of dawn to get on his bicycle and pedal
11:04upwards of eight hours to the next city so
11:09i would typically be in the arena throwing a baseball with getty lee
11:13because
11:14you know getty is a right insanely you know uh um
11:19um
11:19insane fan of baseball and uh and you would see this
11:24figure
11:24figure come riding into the arena and then the bike would be
11:29put down and then it was time for their sound check so they would do their sound
11:34check
11:34and then immediately following the sound check a local french
11:39tutor a french teacher was waiting for neil to give him a one hour
11:44lesson in conversational french french because i you know sadly he lost
11:49his both his wife and daughter within the same year or within a year
11:54of time back in 97 and 98 i think um but his daughter
11:59was a young girl then and they lived in toronto and his daughter learned
12:04to speak uh french as well as english so neil wanted to be able to converse
12:09in his daughter in both languages so he would do that then
12:14then they would do their two plus hour show and then after the show
12:19neil would he'd hang out for a little bit and then he'd excuse himself to the bus because
12:24he was in the midst of writing his first literary work so that was a typical
12:29day uh in the life of neil peer yeah i could imagine you know
12:34yeah the other guys were into partying a little bit more
12:37yeah did did you ever sign a base
12:39baseball for getty no you never did okay
12:44but um i had this is packed up um a lot of celebrities
12:49who would come out to the rush shows right and uh uh one of their fans his name
12:54was warren cromarty so he was a professional baseball player he played on the montreal expos
12:59and then he was a troublemaker and he ended up being sent to japan and he became a base
13:04baseball star there but um on the last night that he was coming out
13:09out to hang with the band and watch them play he gave me
13:14his baseball glove it might have been his all-star glove and he signed it with a pen
13:19and that has since kind of disappeared it's faded away
13:24when i have that baseball glove it those three legs
13:29that we did with them were life-changing for all of us in the steve moore
13:34band but for me it put me on the map as a drummer because
13:39if you think about it what other environment will there be thousands
13:44thousands of drummers in the same place so at any rush show with say 12 000
13:49people you're going to have 2 000 drummers if not 4 000 drummers and they're all air drum
13:54drumming every note of every song of of rushes
13:59like that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing that's the only thing
14:04year and it was because tens of thousands of drummers got to
14:09see me play i mean that that's what i attributed to did uh you know the the movie
14:14i love you man rush was in that movie do you know i'm talking about it came out like 2009
14:19i know i saw it and you know i i need to watch it again because he talks about it in the book
14:24yeah because uh what happened was i got to go i went to new york city and i interviewed paul rudd
14:28and jason c
14:29who are in the movie and they told me this really funny story about
14:31where they were watching the band and they were explaining
14:34to the guys from the band they're like we're gonna be watching you guys but we're kind of
14:37mad at each other and so we're gonna be
14:39standing there with our arms folded watching you guys but we love the band but we're mad at each
14:42other and i think it was getty or
14:44someone said oh so it's gonna be like every rush concert ever
14:49i thought that was the funniest line but uh so it was was that one of the best tours that that you
14:53ever been
14:54in your life do you think oh hands down yeah of course like
14:58you
14:59well certainly you know first off meeting people of that stature
15:04and you know i've always been or fashioned myself you know
15:09a serious musician and i went to college and i have a music degree um
15:14and so to be touring with a band of real musicians and
15:19i mean serious musicians that took their art you know to uh
15:24to another level and i had so much respect for them because they didn't play
15:29by the rules you know radio didn't accept them for years
15:34and uh they never did what the label was trying to get them to do which is right
15:39three-minute songs it was like no um this is what we do and in the
15:44book he's talking about it too it wasn't just the record label is their own management that that
15:49that just kept trying to pressure them to do things you know you gotta play
15:54the game you gotta play the game no we're not gonna play the game
15:57we're gonna do it our way
15:59and we're gonna succeed or not yeah getty told me that you know they really
16:04broke through with 2112 and that was hardly an album with three-minute songs on it yeah
16:09yeah right um i'm just reacquainting myself with a lot of their music so
16:14i've probably listened to about 50 songs so far so when i do my
16:1930-minute power walk you know i go to youtube and i bring up one of their
16:24albums you know you you say serious musicians but you know winger
16:29they were they were serious musicians i mean reb and kip and stuff like that and you think that
16:32sometimes maybe the serious
16:34this or the musicianship was maybe lost in the world that was the 80s back then
16:39totally yeah totally um
16:43you
16:44kip winger is a bona fide classical
16:49composer now i sat in uh the san francisco upper house and why
16:54watched the san francisco ballet dance to his first classical piece called ghost
16:59ghost who was choreographed by a world famous dance choreographer christopher wieldin
17:04from the new york city ballet and then um six months ago or nine months ago
17:09uh i sat in symphony hall in nashville
17:12yeah and uh
17:14listened to kip winger's first violin concerto and they had
17:19listened to kip winger's first violin concerto and they had
17:19listened to kip winger's first violin concerto and they had
17:19listened to kip winger's first violin concerto and they had
17:19listened to kip winger's first violin concerto and they had
17:19listened to kip winger's first violin concerto and they had
17:19listened to kip winger's first violin concerto and they had
17:19listened to kip winger's first violin concerto and they had
17:19listened to kip winger's first violin concerto and they had
17:19listened to kip winger's first violin concerto and they had
17:19listened to kip winger's first violin concerto and they had
17:19listened to kip winger's first violin concerto and they had
17:19listened to kip winger's first violin concerto and they had
17:19A world-famous concertmaster violinist performed the piece.
17:24I'm not sure.
17:24I'm not sure if he's from the Chicago Symphony.
17:28And I'm too...
17:29Two or three years ago, Kip was invited to Berlin, where it was the 100-year anniversary.
17:34It was the anniversary of the Rite of Spring by...
17:38Oh, who's the composer?
17:39The composer, the Rite of Spring.
17:40I couldn't tell you, but I know what you're saying.
17:44Oh, I see.
17:44I see his face, too.
17:46And the conductor said, Kip...
17:49We know you've written a piece called Conversations with Nijinsky.
17:54Nijinsky...
17:54Nijinsky, being the dance choreographer for the Rite of Spring, we're playing your...
17:59Peace before the Rite of Spring.
18:02We'd love to have you fly over to Berlin.
18:04To be the guest of honor.
18:06So this is Kip Winger, the guy that when I think...
18:09Think back to like Beavis and Butthead making fun.
18:12You know, Kip was chosen.
18:14Kip was chosen as the poster child of all things to make fun of.
18:19It would...
18:19The hairband, so-called hairband movement.
18:23And, you know, he...
18:24He was so unfairly treated as like a talentless hack, but he's having the...
18:29Last Laugh, because he's probably the rock musician who has...
18:34Taken the jump into the classical world further than anybody.
18:39Now, there are bands or artists that, you know, have an orchestra...
18:44You know, perform some of their music so you have deep...
18:49Purple playing Smoke on the Water and then a hundred-piece orchestra going...
18:53Da-da-da...
18:54But this is a whole different thing.
18:57Kip has been up for Grammy Awards.
18:59For Best Classical Album, you know, it's a whole different kind of music.
19:04This is now...
19:04Without winger with strings, it is modern classical music.
19:09I'm so proud of him.
19:12And so, we're still...
19:14As a band, we played what might have been our last show in...
19:19L.A. at the Rainbow.
19:21Right.
19:21Ron Brill, the infamous birthplace of...
19:24A heavy metal in the United States, and they've started putting on one or two concerts a year.
19:29Where they built a stage in the parking lot and led a bunch of...
19:34And so, we did that August 31st.
19:37We thought, what a fitting way to make...
19:39Maybe play our last show.
19:41But instead of saying, this is our last show, we said...
19:44Never Say Never.
19:46So, in April, we're playing the...
19:49Is it called...
19:49Is it called the Bangers Something Festival in Sao Paulo, Brazil?
19:54Oh, wow.
19:54And in October, the...
19:57I wrote it down.
19:58What's it called?
19:58What's it called?
19:59Where did I write it?
20:01I can't even remember.
20:03Oh, Rock Wayne.
20:04Rock Wayne in Cancun, the Rock Wayne Rock Festival, and then we have a couple of shows in the...
20:09United States, and yeah, so we're doing occasional...
20:14But, you know, we've been a band for 37 years.
20:19We're in our 38th year.
20:21We're starting to wind things down.
20:24Yeah.
20:24And, you know, you're 72, and now you've got this other project you're working with, this...
20:29Well, tell me about Voice of Extreme, because that band has been around for a while, but did you just join the...
20:34Yeah, yeah, yeah, so Don Chafin is...
20:39I was the vocalist and the guitarist, and several years ago, I was kind of...
20:44I was contacted by a guitarist whose name is Joe Canjemi.
20:48He's from...
20:49My area, Long Island, and tragically, he and his wife...
20:54Lost their four-year-old son.
20:57This is going back about...
20:58It's probably six...
20:59Six or eight years now.
21:00He was playing on their front lawn and someone who was texting on their phone.
21:04And driving their car, went right up the curb, ran him over, killed him instantly.
21:09That didn't even know it.
21:11So, Joe...
21:13I hadn't met...
21:14I hadn't met these guys until I got together for this project where Joe...
21:19I found, like, a year later, that writing music was his escape from the...
21:24The horrible, dark thoughts he was having.
21:27So, he contacted me...
21:29And Billy Sheehan...
21:31Oh, yeah, I know, Billy, yeah.
21:32...to perform...
21:34A bunch of music that he had written and...
21:39John Chafin was the singer on it, and everything was recorded at...
21:44John's recording studio.
21:46And that's how I met Don.
21:48And so, that was...
21:49I think, several years ago, we ended up playing one concert...
21:52As a band, which was great.
21:57And then...
21:57About a year and a half ago, Don contacted me to see...
22:02If I'd like to work on some voices of extreme music.
22:07With him and his partner, Paul Raniere...
22:12Paul's an amazing fretless bass player, like...
22:17A la Jaco Pistorius.
22:20Jaco, yeah, yeah.
22:21But in a rock context.
22:22And so, I've recorded a bunch of music with them.
22:25There's one video online, right?
22:27Now, called Stoned Babies.
22:30And we're getting ready to shoot a second...
22:32Video called Pain and Love.
22:35And record maybe three more songs.
22:37To have an album's worth of material.
22:39And that record will come out on Brave...
22:42Words, records, sometime later this year.
22:47No.
22:47All right.
22:47I was going to ask you about a date, but I guess...
22:49The record's called Faith in Action.
22:51Yes.
22:52Yeah.
22:52And yeah, so sometime this year...
22:55Yeah, Voices of Extreme, like I said...
22:57You know, did you join in with this band?
23:01Because you could see that winger was going to...
23:02And start to wind down?
23:03Are you just looking for something to do?
23:05Is it just another project?
23:06Tell me what you're thinking.
23:07What's your thoughts are about joining another project in your 70s?
23:10Yeah.
23:12No.
23:12No, it had nothing to do with winger winding down.
23:15It's just, you know, throughout the years...
23:17You get called by people you may never...
23:22Have met to see if they could hire you to do something.
23:27But now with winger winding down, I'm kind of going through a whole...
23:32Soul-searching period myself, you know, being at the...
23:37Age that I'm at and trying to decide, do I still want to tour?
23:42You know, playing is still fine.
23:45I'm in good physical shape, knock wood.
23:47And I love music.
23:50I love to play drums.
23:52And I'm still...
23:52I'm still playing at a pretty good level.
23:56But...
23:57I hit my 50 year as a pro back in September.
24:02And so I've put in a lot of time.
24:07I'm not sure...
24:07That I want to throw in the towel yet.
24:10And music's not like a regular job, you know.
24:12It's like...
24:13And also, I kept hearing Getty...
24:17In his book, you know, kind of making remarks like, you know, when I grow up, well...
24:22There's that joke where the father says to his kid...
24:27Because the kid says, Dad, when I grew up, I want to be a musician.
24:30And then the dad says, son, you can't be...
24:32You can't be both.
24:34And Getty kept alluding to that in the book.
24:37Like, there's always a child inside you or that young...
24:41Uh...
24:42Kid with that burning desire to play a musical...
24:47Instrument and have a band and make it somehow.
24:51Or at least to make a...
24:52And so that's how...
24:55I've never had a regular job.
24:56I've been a musician.
24:57My entire life.
24:59The closest I've come to having a regular job is when I was...
25:02I was a professor of music at Berklee College of Music.
25:05I mean, I worked my way over...
25:07Over the 20 years that I taught there in person in Boston...
25:12Shooting from Long Island.
25:14It was like a 500...
25:17135-mile trip.
25:2130 weeks a year.
25:22For 20 years.
25:24And sometimes having to fly from Boston...
25:27To do winger gigs or Dixie Dregs gigs.
25:31And then fly back to Boston.
25:32To teach the next week.
25:34And then come home for a couple of days.
25:36It's...
25:37It's a crazy life.
25:39But if you're able to have some...
25:42Success at it.
25:44It's a very fun, enjoyable...
25:46Exist...
25:47Yeah, you talk about never growing up.
25:50It's like...
25:50Like I said at the start.
25:51I've been in this business for...
25:52For 36 years.
25:54There are things I do in my life.
25:56In my daily life that...
25:57In the world of rock and whatnot...
25:59That my father would never do at my age.
26:02Wouldn't even do 25 years ago.
26:04Just because.
26:05I think it keeps you young.
26:06I just saw...
26:07I have a...
26:07I don't know if you know who they are.
26:08They're a Swedish metal man.
26:10And I'm like...
26:10I couldn't get enough of them.
26:12You know.
26:14You know.
26:15That kind of thing.
26:16Yeah.
26:16I mean some people...
26:17In fact...
26:20I mean we're losing so many...
26:22You know.
26:23Big name musicians.
26:25I remember...
26:27In May we played some shows.
26:31And then we were not...
26:32Going to play another show...
26:34From the beginning of May...
26:36Until the end of August.
26:37Doing two shows.
26:39The last one being...
26:40In L.A.
26:42Right?
26:42At the Rainbow.
26:45But in the middle of May...
26:47We were...
26:47We were called...
26:48By the...
26:51Like the biggest...
26:52Saucer...
26:52Festival in the...
26:54In the United States.
26:55Like in Wisconsin.
26:57A...
26:57Ace Frehley just cancelled.
27:01He fell or...
27:02Or he has a...
27:03Cold or...
27:04We didn't know anything...
27:05About how bad...
27:07His situation was.
27:08You know.
27:09So we filled in.
27:10We kind of did...
27:11That show.
27:12And then...
27:12In August...
27:14I forget...
27:15I think maybe Warrant...
27:16Canceled the show...
27:17Opening for Joan Jett...
27:19In Pittsburgh...
27:20Which is Red Beach's hometown...
27:22And so of course...
27:23We had to...
27:24Do that show...
27:25Especially for Reb and...
27:27My sister...
27:29Is like best friends...
27:30With Joan Jett's...
27:32Wife...
27:32And really good friends...
27:34With her husband...
27:35The husband who's the manager...
27:37Okay.
27:37I didn't mean Joan Jett's wife...
27:39So...
27:40The manager and his wife...
27:42Of Joan Jett...
27:43My sister...
27:44Is like best friends with them...
27:46You know.
27:46She's like...
27:46You gotta do it!
27:48I've never been in a band...
27:49That played with Joan Jett...
27:51I've met Joan...
27:52At my sister's house...
27:54But that was really...
27:57Really good because...
27:58The tour manager...
28:00Someone in the road crew...
28:02Like...
28:03Has been a fan...
28:05Of mine for years...
28:06And so...
28:07It was really nice...
28:07To meet him...
28:08And chat with him...
28:10Well...
28:10I just have to tell you...
28:12The way...
28:12It came about was...
28:13My sister...
28:15Was at...
28:16The manager's house...
28:17Kenny Laguna...
28:18And his wife...
28:19Meryl...
28:20And...
28:21She was...
28:22Just talking...
28:24About...
28:24Her brother...
28:25Rod...
28:26You know...
28:27And something about drums...
28:29And then...
28:30This...
28:31Tech...
28:32Or...
28:32Code manager...
28:33He said...
28:34Rod...
28:36As in...
28:36Morgenstein?
28:37And she...
28:37She said...
28:38Yeah...
28:38Because her...
28:39Her name at the moment...
28:40Is Harris...
28:41Her last name...
28:42And he had no idea...
28:44For all the years...
28:45That he knew my sister...
28:47That I...
28:47Was her brother...
28:48So she said...
28:49It was just a hilarious moment...
28:52At Kenny...
28:52In Meryl's...
28:54Home...
28:54It's a small world thing...
28:55Of course...
28:56In this...
28:56That's...
28:57That's why I said...
28:58When we first started...
28:59I can't believe I'd never interviewed you before...
29:01Or talked to you before...
29:02But...
29:02Last thing here for you...
29:03Rod...
29:03And we'll cut you loose...
29:05Because I could talk about stuff...
29:06And you know...
29:07For hours...
29:07With you...
29:08But real fast...
29:09Voices of Extreme...
29:10Really want to get a plug in for that...
29:11That's coming up...
29:11Stone Babies...
29:12To put that in the story...
29:13And what not...
29:14It spurred my memory...
29:16I saw a video of...
29:17Of Kip opening up a winger box set...
29:20And to me...
29:22One of my...
29:22Favorite records from winger...
29:23Was pull...
29:24A record that I think...
29:26Came out at the exactly...
29:27For a long time...
29:29Oh my god...
29:30This is heartbreaking...
29:31And I have to say...
29:32Every show that winger does...
29:36Somewhere in the show...
29:37Kip comes over to the drum riser...
29:40And we have eye contact...
29:42And the melancholy...
29:44That we feel about...
29:46If owned...
29:47So winger came out...
29:49You don't know...
29:51About...
29:52History...
29:52Until it happens...
29:54And then you look back...
29:55With 2020...
29:56Right?
29:56So...
29:57Winger's album came out...
30:00In the latter part of 1988...
30:02And...
30:02Nirvana came out...
30:04A couple of years ago...
30:05And it was over...
30:06And so...
30:07Pull...
30:08Kind of came out...
30:11When the whole...
30:12Hair metal thing...
30:14Was...
30:15You know...
30:15On the downward slide...
30:17And...
30:17And we feel...
30:19In our hearts...
30:20If we had come out...
30:21Maybe one or two albums...
30:22Earlier...
30:24More in the mid-80s...
30:25Than the late 80s...
30:26We...
30:27Would have been a huge...
30:29Force...
30:30To reckon with...
30:31You know...
30:32Like some...
30:32Some of the bands...
30:33That are still around...
30:35And like...
30:35A song like...
30:36Um...
30:37Spill them under...
30:38The ballad...
30:40You know...
30:40It's like...
30:41It would...
30:41Like...
30:42Equals any...
30:42Def Leppard song...
30:43To me...
30:44I mean...
30:44I think Def Leppard's...
30:45An amazing band...
30:46But I'm also so proud...
30:47Of Winger...
30:48And the Pull album...
30:50Which was the third...
30:51Winger album...
30:51Was so mature...
30:52And kind of different...
30:55Than the first two...
30:56Where...
30:57You know...
30:58In order to get a record deal...
31:00You're talking...
31:01We're...
31:02Talking about...
31:02You're talking about...
31:02You know...
31:02Rush going...
31:03We don't care...
31:04What you're telling us...
31:05We're not doing it...
31:06So in the case of...
31:07Winger was kind of like...
31:08Okay...
31:10Kip and Reb...
31:12Wrote...
31:12Demos for years...
31:13And kept getting rejected...
31:15And rejected...
31:15And rejected...
31:16From every record...
31:17Record label in New York...
31:19Right...
31:19And so then...
31:21They...
31:21You know...
31:22Kip was...
31:22Just studying...
31:24The charts...
31:25And saying...
31:25Okay...
31:26So like...
31:26Who's in the top 20...
31:27Let me listen to their music...
31:29What is it that...
31:30Are some of the elements...
31:32That just have to be there...
31:34To maybe even be lucky enough...
31:36To get a record deal...
31:37But in addition to that...
31:41He...
31:42He always wanted there to be...
31:43Elements in the band...
31:44That sets it apart...
31:46From...
31:47All...
31:47All the other bands...
31:48Of like...
31:49Cinderella...
31:50Def Leppard...
31:51Bon Jovi...
31:52Kiss...
31:52Poor...
31:52Poison...
31:53Buh-Buh-Buh-Buh-Buh...
31:53And...
31:54That's how I got in the band...
31:56He had a list of...
31:5720 or 30 of the...
31:59Rock drummers in New York...
32:00And when we had this...
32:02In an inadvertent meeting...
32:04In an office...
32:05It was a Japanese...
32:06Management company...
32:07That was trying to help...
32:08Kip and Reb...
32:09And I was up there...
32:10To meet about...
32:11Maybe doing a...
32:12Kataro tour...
32:13He was a New Age artist...
32:15And when we were introduced...
32:17Just...
32:17Just by chance...
32:18Kip didn't know who I was...
32:20But Reb...
32:21Was free...
32:22Breaking out...
32:23Because the Dixie Dregs...
32:25Were like...
32:25One of his favorite bands...
32:26And Steve Morris was...
32:27Him and George Lynch...
32:29Were his two favorite guitarists...
32:31At the time...
32:31He was going...
32:31Kip!
32:32You don't know who this guy...
32:33You know...
32:34And so...
32:35We ended up...
32:36And jammed...
32:37Like the next week...
32:41And I was so concerned...
32:42About...
32:44You know...
32:44Turning him off...
32:45By playing in my fusion...
32:47So I intentionally...
32:50Just hit the drums hard...
32:51I didn't do any...
32:52Drum fills...
32:53I just played...
32:54You know...
32:54Those couple of basic rock beats...
32:57Because he walked over to me...
32:58And started pumping on his bass...
33:00Dun dun dun dun dun dun...
33:01And after...
33:02About 10 seconds...
33:03He stopped...
33:04And he said...
33:04What are you doing?
33:06I said...
33:07What do you mean?
33:07I'm doing what...
33:08What I think is appropriate...
33:10He said...
33:10Great!
33:11I see you hit the drums hard...
33:12And play simple...
33:13But Reb said...
33:14You could lose me...
33:16You know?
33:17I said...
33:18I'm intentionally not doing that...
33:20He goes...
33:20Well...
33:21I'm looking for ways...
33:22That when we get a record deal...
33:24And make a record...
33:25We could be a little bit different...
33:27Than everybody else...
33:28And one way is to maybe have a drummer...
33:30Who comes from a different background...
33:32And can do things...
33:34That you don't necessarily hear on rock records...
33:36And so case in point...
33:37When we cut the song 17...
33:39When we cut the drums for it...
33:41After the guitar...
33:42It's all aware...
33:43That rift's happening...
33:46I...
33:47I cut the track...
33:48And then...
33:49They said...
33:50Hey Rod...
33:51Can you do something...
33:51That you'd never hear...
33:52You're on a rock record...
33:54In those two measures...
33:56So I went...
33:56Alright...
33:57You're probably gonna...
33:57Hate it...
33:58And so I turned the beat around...
34:00You know...
34:00It's a...
34:01It's a...
34:01Fusion kind of...
34:02Concept...
34:03So I...
34:04I delayed...
34:05Oompa...
34:06Oompa...
34:07But...
34:07By an eighth note...
34:08And I went...
34:08One...
34:09Two...
34:09Three...
34:10Four...
34:10Oompa...
34:11Oompa...
34:12Oompa...
34:12Oompa...
34:13Oompa...
34:14Oompa...
34:15Two measures...
34:17And when I look...
34:17Through the double panes...
34:19Of glass...
34:19Into the...
34:20Studio...
34:21Uh...
34:22Where...
34:23Where they're...
34:24You know...
34:24All the recording gear was...
34:26Like...
34:27Kip and...
34:27And the producer...
34:28Bo Hill...
34:29They disappeared...
34:29They fell off their chairs...
34:31And they were laughing...
34:32And they...
34:32Loved it...
34:33And that's what's on the record...
34:35And hundreds and hundreds of musicians...
34:37Uh...
34:38Have asked me...
34:39What's going on there...
34:40What time signature is that...
34:42Why did...
34:42The bottom drop out...
34:43And I try to explain...
34:45And back in the day...
34:47I would rattle off a lot of my peers...
34:50From the fusion world...
34:51So I would say...
34:52You know...
34:53Dave Weckl...
34:54Vinnie Kaliuta...
34:55Steve Smith...
34:56Simon Phillips...
34:56They'd go who?
34:57Who?
34:58Who?
34:58Who?
34:59Who?
34:59The only...
35:00Jazz drummer...
35:01They knew...
35:02Was Neil...
35:02Appeared...
35:03You know...
35:05Or...
35:06Some of them may be new...
35:07Mike Portnoy...
35:08Because Dream Theater...
35:10Had their Images and Words album out...
35:12Right, yeah...
35:12And it always goes back to Neil Peer...
35:14Well, I'll tell you what, Rod...
35:15I gotta cut you loose...
35:16Because this thing is gonna...
35:17This thing is...
35:17It's gonna end on me...
35:18But really great talking to you...
35:20Awesome stories...
35:21I wish you nothing but the best...
35:22Voices of Extreme...
35:24And maybe next time you're in Detroit...
35:25You come by and say hello...
35:27Everyone...
35:27Wonderful...
35:28Thank you, Meltdown...
35:29Pleasure...
35:29Check out Talking Rock with Meltdown...
35:32On all...
35:32Podcast Platforms...
35:33And WRIF.com...
35:37...
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