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Mercosur, India and the EU: Trade ambitions meet political resistance in The Ring
In this week’s episode of The Ring, MEPs Warborn (EPP) and Mullooly (Renew Europe) engage in a heated debate over the EU–Mercosur agreement, following the Parliament’s decision to refer it to the Court of Justice of the European Union.
READ MORE : http://www.euronews.com/2026/01/28/mercosur-india-and-the-eu-trade-ambitions-meet-political-resistance-in-the-ring
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In this week’s episode of The Ring, MEPs Warborn (EPP) and Mullooly (Renew Europe) engage in a heated debate over the EU–Mercosur agreement, following the Parliament’s decision to refer it to the Court of Justice of the European Union.
READ MORE : http://www.euronews.com/2026/01/28/mercosur-india-and-the-eu-trade-ambitions-meet-political-resistance-in-the-ring
Subscribe to our channel. Euronews is available on Dailymotion in 12 languages
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NewsTranscript
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00:28of trade. From South America to India, the EU has signed not one.
00:33But two massive trade deals in 2026 alone.
00:38Business communities are euphoric, but farming communities are concerned.
00:41Luis Alberto has more.
00:43As global trade becomes increasingly entangled.
00:48With geopolitics, the EU is being forced to rethink what its economic openness is.
00:53For growth or strategic power, with the United States becoming a less.
00:58Reliable partner and China an ever more dominant competitor, trade is no longer.
01:03Just about lowering tariffs, but about securing supply chains, influence and.
01:08Autonomy.
01:09Negotiations with India renewed momentum on a deal with Mercosur.
01:13And outreach to Indo-Pacific partners reflect this shift.
01:18Reporters say these trade deals secure Europe's place in a fragmented global economy.
01:23Critics fear they hurt farmers, weaken environmental standards and erode public.
01:28Trust.
01:29Can the EU use its standards as leverage rather than.
01:33Compromise them for access and influence?
01:35Or will internal divisions reduce it to a large.
01:38Market.
01:39Market.
01:40Reacting to decisions made elsewhere.
01:43We hope to pose to our contenders.
01:44Let's meet them.
01:48Lulee.
01:49Jean Lulee.
01:50An Irish MEP and a member of the Renew Europe group.
01:52He is a Vice-Chapter or Norse.
01:53Chair of the Special Committee on Housing and a member of the Committee on Regional Development.
01:58Before becoming an MEP, he worked as a journalist for over three decades.
02:03He has also been a consistent critic of the EU-Mercosur Trade Agreement, arguing that in its current
02:07form...
02:08It poses significant risks to European farmers, food standards and public health.
02:13The Mercosur trade deal will do nothing of substance for the non-agricultural sector.
02:18In Europe, he said.
02:22Jürgen Warburg
02:23A Swedish MEP and a member of the European People's Party Group.
02:27He served as a member of the European People's Party.
02:28He serves on the Committee on International Trade, where he has played a prominent role in shaping the European Party.
02:33He served as a member of the European Parliament's trade policy agenda.
02:35His work focuses on strengthening the EU's competitive...
02:38...and supporting open markets.
02:42On the Mercosur...
02:43...the Mercosur deal, he said.
02:45We owe citizens facts, not fear.
02:48The safeguards in this agreement are stronger than in any previous EU trade deal.
02:53Kieran Mullooly and Jürgen Warburg, welcome to The Ring.
02:58The idea here is to give our viewers a glimpse of what your debates are like inside the...
03:03...M.A. cycle, so I hope you feel right at home.
03:05Kieran Mullooly, let's start with you.
03:08334 members of the European Parliament voted in favour of referring the EU...
03:13...the Mercosur deal to the European Court of Justice.
03:15You were one of them.
03:16Why do you dislike this deal?
03:18So much.
03:19Well, I suppose, firstly, that issue on that vote last week wasn't entirely just on the Mercosur.
03:23issue.
03:24It was on the issue of what we're there for as a parliament.
03:26We're there, as you know, to...
03:28...co-legislate and also to be there to scrutinise trade deals as well.
03:32So we're effectively...
03:33...what we were asking for last week was just one thing at the moment...
03:36...a legal referral.
03:37We want our top courts...
03:38...in Europe to look at the issues, particularly look at that balancing mechanism.
03:41It's something new in terms...
03:43...of the parliament over the last 30 years.
03:45And as we know, the European Court of Justice moves very...
03:48...slowly, so we could be looking at perhaps two more years before they finish their work.
03:53And 324 members of the European Parliament disagreed with this and they...
03:58...they voted against referring the deal to the European Court of Justice.
04:01Tell you why you like the deal so much.
04:03I think the viewers saw that China is now pressing us on...
04:08...one part and US on the other parts.
04:11From a geopolitical standpoint, this...
04:13...is a good deal.
04:14From an economic standpoint, this is a good deal.
04:17It is creating...
04:18...and more jobs in Europe.
04:19So we need it as soon as possible.
04:21And you mentioned...
04:23...one of the issues that made you want to send it for a legal...
04:28...to check.
04:29But that is not really true.
04:30That's the rebalancing mechanism.
04:32It's covered for...
04:33...within the agreement.
04:34There is no issue there.
04:36And there is a potential...
04:37...denay that the...
04:38...the deal could be provisionally implemented.
04:40And that's...
04:41...that's what we need now because...
04:42How would you...
04:43...feel about that?
04:44If the Commission already...
04:45...already...
04:46...provived the interest?
04:47I have a major problem.
04:48Yeah, I have a major problem.
04:48I have to stick with the vote this week.
04:49The majority of our MEPs...
04:51...in all around Europe.
04:53I have felt that this issue...
04:54...needs to be referred.
04:55It needs to be looked at in depth.
04:57Remember in...
04:58...right across Europe.
04:59Take countries like France and Poland.
05:01127 MEPs.
05:03...in those areas voted yes...
05:04...for this decision.
05:05They represent the biggest industries...
05:06...in Europe.
05:07Germany the biggest...
05:08...economy is in favour...
05:09But the French MEPs and the...
05:10...and the Polish...
05:11...to a person.
05:12A represent...
05:13...Industries in Bordeaux and Paris...
05:15...and in Amsterdam...
05:16...and right across Warsaw...
05:17...and yet they said...
05:18...they need a legal referral.
05:19I trust their...
05:20Do you trust their...
05:21Jürgen, do you not trust their...
05:22...judgment that this needs to go back...
05:23...in terms of industry and their countries?
05:24So we need...
05:25No, it's the other way around.
05:26I mean, it's in...
05:27...for the rebalance...
05:28...mechanism...
05:29...as you mentioned...
05:30...one of the most important parts...
05:31...from you...
05:32...it is actually...
05:33...in the agreement.
05:34But they want it to be reviewed...
05:35...so you might not...
05:36But they want it to be reviewed...
05:37...obviously...
05:38So why did you want...
05:38...members of parliament are asked...
05:40...members of parliament are asked...
05:41...to come forward...
05:42...and to represent...
05:43...their constituents?
05:44The industries...
05:45...in France...
05:46...and in Poland...
05:47...and in Ireland...
05:48...said...
05:48...we don't...
05:49...we want to see...
05:50...a proper legal review.
05:51So, if you read...
05:52...article 21 14 10 C...
05:53...you will see...
05:54...the rebalancing mechanism...
05:55...out there.
05:56Have you read that article?
05:57No, I haven't...
05:58That's right.
05:59That's why you voted...
06:00...the way you did.
06:01I've looked at the precedents...
06:02...that have been suggested as precedents...
06:03...in the...
06:03...cases...
06:04...there were previous trade agreements...
06:05...with the European Union.
06:06There's no previous trade agreement...
06:07...with regard to...
06:08...the Mercosur countries...
06:09...and in those circumstances...
06:10...it's in order that we do this.
06:11It's true.
06:12We haven't used it before.
06:13I agree with that.
06:13But it's also within all the WTO rules.
06:16And since it's in the agreement...
06:18...which you...
06:19...obviously haven't read...
06:21...you still voted to send it for...
06:23...the legal checks.
06:24Because I represent my country...
06:25...and the industry in my country...
06:26...the same as the French...
06:27...in Bur...
06:28...and Bordeaux...
06:29...and Paris...
06:30...and Warsaw...
06:31...say...
06:32...we want a legal review of this agreement.
06:33What are you afraid of, Jörg?
06:33Are you afraid it will come back?
06:34I'm afraid.
06:35That it will not come back at all?
06:36No, no.
06:37What are you afraid of?
06:38I'm afraid of losing...
06:40...economic development.
06:43I'm afraid of losing jobs in Europe.
06:46I'm afraid of the small business...
06:48...of its owners.
06:49I'm afraid of all that growth...
06:50...that Europe needs in this moment.
06:52My issue...
06:53...and one of the big issues...
06:54...I have with this deal...
06:55...is the scale of it.
06:56It's overrated.
06:57It's overstated.
06:58I'm pro-trade.
06:59I'm in favour of the EU-India trade agreement.
07:01I was cheering yesterday...
07:03...why?
07:04Because of the scale of it.
07:05We're talking about a country...
07:06...with 1.5 billion people...
07:08...as opposed to Mercosur...
07:09...with 300 million people.
07:11We're talking about a country...
07:12...with limited trade...
07:13...as opposed to India...
07:14...which has shown a willingness to trade.
07:16These are totally different situations...
07:18...you're afraid they won't come back.
07:20The scale is not there, Jurgen.
07:22I'm not really worried.
07:23Oh, the scale is definitely there.
07:25It's 270 million consumers...
07:28...in the Mercosur countries.
07:29A million and a half...
07:30No, but I'd like to have both.
07:31I'd like to have both.
07:32I'd like to have both.
07:33We have US pressing us with tariffs...
07:35...we have China pressing us with subsidies...
07:37...and...
07:38...you are choosing one agreement...
07:40...I'm choosing two.
07:41And you...
07:42...you say...
07:43...well, it's not...
07:43...not enough growth...
07:44...but it's still growth.
07:45And Ciarán, are you not worried...
07:46...about the EU's relevance...
07:47...on the global stage?
07:48I'm...
07:49EU has to be relevant.
07:50We have to do trade deals.
07:51But I want to...
07:52But I want to...
07:53I want to trade with countries, May.
07:55I want to trade with countries that are not...
07:56...putting...
07:57...cutting down the...
07:58...of the rainforest.
07:59I want to trade with countries that do not have a major...
08:01...issue with regard to food quality and food safety.
08:03I want to trade...
08:04But did you not read the fine print...
08:05...of the safeguards?
08:06Don't talk to me about safeguards.
08:07We're really...
08:08Let's talk about safeguards with regard to the...
08:09Let's talk about the safeguards.
08:10...in a European context.
08:12Let's look at the safe.
08:13...
08:13We've had tremendous agreements in this house...
08:15...going over the last number of years.
08:16Do you remember the EU-Israel trip?
08:18We had a marvellous safeguarding article too...
08:20...which said if any of the parties were particularly guilty...
08:23...in terms of breach of human rights...
08:26...that was going to be a problem.
08:27I wonder is this real...
08:28...actually breached article.
08:29Do most people in the UN think they have?
08:31Have you seen the safeguard cut in?
08:32Have we suspended the...
08:33...in agreement, Jurgen?
08:34Why haven't we suspended?
08:35That was a safeguard.
08:36It was never implemented.
08:37What happened to that safeguard?
08:38Are you...
08:38mindful of these concerns?
08:39It's the strongest safeguards in any...
08:43...trade agreements.
08:44Okay?
08:45It's not been stronger...
08:46It doesn't work.
08:47...for any.
08:48Yeah.
08:48Okay?
08:49So...
08:50The...
08:51The...
08:52There is a 5%...
08:53If the price increases by more than 5% and the volume...
08:57Uh...
08:58...increases by more than 5%...
09:00...formers are protected.
09:01And that's not only the...
09:03...in what period of time will they be protected?
09:04In what period of time will they be protected?
09:05It's also the tariff rate quotas.
09:06Can we ring the bell?
09:07When will they be protected?
09:08When will they be protected?
09:08next year this year you have three well that's also the thing
09:13this is unprecedented absolutely when it comes to the safeguards how fast they will
09:18kick in so nobody knows is the answer 25 21 days yeah it's also
09:23unlimited import quotas on sensitive products does not satisfy you
09:28i think ursula von der einen she sat down she met with the farmers on the sidelines of that
09:33summit that took place before christmas was that not enough when i came to this parliament in the
09:36very first week i met her
09:38and i raised this issue on on day one and in that meeting in in parliament in strasbourg
09:43said to me but kieran we are we are working with the the farmers in brazil things are going to be
09:47different
09:48they are already improving the situation and yes in my country member state in the
09:53last six months we've seen brazilian meat come in with a legal growth promoters
09:58with carcinogenic products and not just come in but go straight into the food chain
10:03and be consumed she told me this was not going to happen again it did happen how can we trust and this
10:08of course has been a massive scandal and covered a lot in the last couple of weeks in ireland these are the genuine concern
10:13that communities in ireland and france and greece in fact there's been farmers out protesting so how do you
10:18address those concerns and viewers here today who are concerned you know i i think i think that is a valid uh
10:23valid argument actually one of your first valid arguments uh which is also
10:35you
10:28that is why the commission has acted on this and the standards they are there
10:40you
10:33no matter the mercos trade agreement or not they will be there it will not
10:47you
10:38change with the agreement we will still have our stats standards there will still be imports of products
10:43plots from the mercosur countries
10:44from the mercosur countries
10:45from the mercosur countries but we will lose out on the opportunities
10:47how
10:48How do we then make sure that consumers, animal welfare and plants...
10:53The plant protection is there. We do checks, more checks and of course...
10:58And money, I know there's 6.3...
11:00Hang on, hang on.
11:01Unfortunately, they're not working.
11:02No.
11:033 billion euros earmarked as well for farmers in the next budget.
11:06And climate control and all sorts of other issues.
11:08We always have to read the fine print, of course, but...
11:11Could I just say...
11:12No, let me stop you there because actually...
11:13We're just getting warmed up here and it's time to take the gloves off.
11:18So now you both have the opportunity to kick off with your own quest.
11:23So I will stay quiet for a minute.
11:24Kiran, you go ahead, please, with your first question.
11:26Yeah, I mean, I want to ask Juergen.
11:28Up straight if he knows what antimicrobial resistance is in terms of medical situation.
11:33It's basically a medical condition which occurs after the overuse of...
11:38Antibiotics.
11:39It's something that affects you and me.
11:40Forget about the animals for the moment.
11:41It's you and me.
11:42Your kids...
11:43Your family.
11:44And if in an emergency situation you go into hospital, you require antibiotics.
11:48If you've been exposed to more antibiotics than you knew in the course of your life, you're
11:52in big trouble.
11:53Brazilian media is coming in at the end of the day.
11:55We know antibiotics are in it.
11:56We've seen it.
11:57In my country...
11:58We've had an expose with regard to right across Brazil.
12:01It's still going on.
12:02From your source?
12:03So the question is very...
12:03Very straightforward.
12:04The question is very straightforward at the end of the day.
12:06What price do you put on the safety?
12:08Of your family?
12:09So the meat is coming in.
12:11No matter with the Mercosur agreement.
12:13Is it possible?
12:14Is it possible?
12:15Is it possible or not?
12:16And what happens if we have the Mercosur agreement is that we increase...
12:18the checks.
12:19In fact, we will do 50% more checks...
12:23In the Mercosur countries, we will do 33% more checks...
12:28At the border...
12:29At the European borders.
12:31And there will be a task...
12:33To improve the border efficiency.
12:36So actually...
12:37For health...
12:39For people...
12:40And for animals...
12:41And for the plants...
12:42There will be more...
12:43More checks...
12:44With the Mercosur agreement...
12:45You can guarantee this?
12:46Without the argument.
12:47You can guarantee this?
12:48So...
12:48Yes.
12:49Because on the 25th of September last year, they came in to Ireland.
12:52I've asked the Commission...
12:53Since that...
12:54About the checks...
12:55Where the meat came from...
12:56Where it went to...
12:57The Commission doesn't...
12:58They still don't know.
12:59They still don't know.
13:00Five months later...
13:01So you're not reassured by what Jörgen said?
13:02Five months later...
13:03That's a fact!
13:03We can ask...
13:04You can ask anybody in the Parliament next week...
13:05When we ask the Commissioner...
13:06Where did it come from?
13:07Where did it go...
13:08The checks...
13:09But are your voters not excited about cheaper stakes?
13:11Fortunately...
13:12The EU...
13:13One of the fantastic...
13:13About the EU...
13:14Is the reference...
13:15Is the focus on quality...
13:16And health over the years...
13:17Our Irish...
13:18The Irish consumer...
13:19Largely...
13:20Our Irish consumer...
13:21Wants to see the continuation of proper quality...
13:22And sales...
13:23Quality over quality...
13:23That's the big issue for me...
13:24Fair food...
13:25And your family...
13:26And my family...
13:27We can be sure of our reason...
13:28We can pose your first question...
13:29Please...
13:30To Ciarán Malouly...
13:31We have US and China...
13:32Pressing us from two parties...
13:33It's been very...
13:34Very hard with US lately...
13:36And we need more trading...
13:38With US agreements...
13:39India...
13:40It's very good...
13:41That you are pro...
13:42The Indian one...
13:43And...
13:43We have several others...
13:44The Chile one...
13:45I guess you voted for...
13:46As well...
13:47Why...
13:48Do you choose...
13:49Not to have the growth...
13:51That comes...
13:52With the Mercosur...
13:53Agreement...
13:54You say it's too small...
13:55But it's still growth...
13:56It's still more jobs...
13:58For...
13:59For European businesses...
14:00It supports...
14:01Small and medium-sized businesses...
14:03We need growth in Europe...
14:05So...
14:06Why can you not...
14:07Help...
14:08With...
14:08With...
14:09Providing that growth...
14:10It's a fair question...
14:11The geopolitical situation...
14:12Has been one of the...
14:13The...
14:13Big unsettling issues...
14:14As I joined the Parliament...
14:15Every week...
14:16There's a different agenda...
14:17And usually driven by...
14:18The...
14:18The United States or otherwise...
14:19But...
14:20The point is...
14:21You're right...
14:22We need to do...
14:23More trade...
14:24But for me as an MVP...
14:23I have to balance...
14:24On one side...
14:25The better good of the EU...
14:26And on the other side...
14:27The better good of the EU...
14:28And when the people of France...
14:30And the people of Poland...
14:31The people of Austria...
14:32Ireland...
14:33And even Belgium on this...
14:34Have come in and said...
14:35At the end of the day...
14:36We have more to lose...
14:37In a deal...
14:38Of this size...
14:39Because it's so small...
14:40That's what they're saying to me...
14:41Even though I don't know...
14:42If the French economy...
14:43Should be a good example...
14:43Well...
14:44Nevertheless...
14:45The French reunites on this...
14:46We've seen it in the Parliament...
14:47I mean...
14:48127 MPs can be wrong...
14:49Can they all be wrong, Jürgen?
14:50Yes...
14:51Can they all be wrong?
14:52They can all be wrong...
14:53Yes...
14:53A bit of a...
14:54A statement about you...
14:55And democracy...
14:56Because at the end of the day...
14:57They represent left...
14:58Right...
14:59And middle...
14:58Sir Mullooly...
14:59You've transferred...
15:00Another question there...
15:01Are you in favour...
15:02Of a deal...
15:03Which at the end of the day...
15:03Continues to leave...
15:04Workers in Brazil...
15:05On an average...
15:06Monthly salary...
15:07Of just one...
15:08A thousand euro...
15:09It's doing nothing for trade...
15:10How could you support that?
15:11Nothing for employees...
15:12And workers in Brazil...
15:13You're right answer...
15:14So...
15:15If we vote down the Mercosur trade agreement...
15:18How will it help...
15:20The workers in Brazil...
15:22How...
15:23How will it help...
15:24The workers...
15:25In...
15:26In Europe...
15:27In Ireland...
15:28It would...
15:28be the opposite and we spoke about it. It's about growth. Europe is facing
15:33a huge growth problem and it's good that the Commission is now pushing.
15:38To change this position, we have the Draga report, we need to do a lot of things.
15:43The rest of the world is growing faster than Europe and that's why we need to...
15:48We tap into that growth and we do that with the trade agreements.
15:53That you do not want to tap into that growth to 270 million.
15:58That can sell the cars, the pharmaceuticals...
16:03The trade unions tell us that, and actually I misquoted, 500 euros per month is the average
16:08one. At the top 10% are on 1200 euros per month.
16:11That's today. That's today.
16:12That has been...
16:13We've been away for some time and you know that.
16:15So, with an agreement...
16:16You know the point, it complicates this matter as well.
16:18Just to complicate it even further for you, you want to sell...
16:21People want to sell cars into this...
16:23How many of these workers are going to be able to afford a Volvo car?
16:26At that wage?
16:28What salary?
16:29Never.
16:30Just allow Mr. Wargan to answer.
16:31No, much more.
16:33Of the workers will afford it if we have the Mercosur agreement.
16:36Not a chance.
16:37Because economic...
16:38That development will increase with the agreement.
16:41That's what trade does.
16:42Actually, the...
16:43The European export will grow by 39%.
16:47That's a huge...
16:48No, no, that's...
16:48The rentability for cars, for car parts, for machineries...
16:53For pharmaceutical products, and for farmers.
16:56And that's why the industry have called it the...
16:58The big trophy that they took home from Paraguay.
17:00And you mentioned Mario Draghi.
17:01Yeah.
17:02He has been invited...
17:03To the EU leaders' retreat in February.
17:05And that just describes how bad really our economy is right now.
17:08What Kiran is doing is saying no to growth.
17:11And I'm saying yes to growth.
17:12I'm saying balance.
17:13I'm saying balance it out.
17:14Well, I'm curious to hear what our viewers think.
17:16Do write to us at the ring at yournews.com.
17:18And to tell us our view.
17:19But now I would like to bring in another voice.
17:21Because regulars here on your...
17:23News will have noticed that Ursula von der Leyen was in New Delhi earlier this week.
17:27And the red carpet...
17:28News was rolled out for her.
17:30We can take a listen to what she had to say during the EU India history...
17:33The American history of the EU media reasoning...
17:34Where is the American history Clinical
18:01So charming, the Indian communities there with her traditional dress.
18:06This is not so controversial as the Mercosur.
18:09Why do you really like the EU-India deal?
18:11It's a huge deal, it's a fantastic deal.
18:16It's a fantastic market for European products, it's 1.4 billion consumers.
18:21And in a time where, once again, when we are oppressed by you...
18:26US and China, we need more partners, and that's why this agreement is so good.
18:31Beef, sugar are protected here, so nobody wants a food fight with the farmers in front of the...
18:36Which is why it's a good deal.
18:38You know what, I think the EU negotiators have learned from Mercosur.
18:41Having waited for 20 years, and we've seen it, little or no beef involved in this deal at all.
18:46So that's why your voters will love it, because there's no beef here.
18:49It's a key indigenous industry right across Europe.
18:51So at the end of the day, Europe must protect its markets as well.
18:55So the balance was needed.
18:56And she's found the balance.
18:56We're quite happy with this, but Irish whiskey will sell into India in better volumes than ever before.
19:01We're really pleased.
19:01But we're also glad to see it going the other way.
19:04We think it's good for Europe because of the scale.
19:06That's the key issue of balance, what Europe has, and the scale of what's possible.
19:10Okay.
19:11And so now...
19:11The other workforce is they can afford to buy a Volvo, you mean, in India.
19:16And the Irish can afford to buy another car in Ireland with the whiskey sales increase.
19:21It's...
19:21It's a win-win.
19:22It's a win-win.
19:23Which will happen in Mercosur as well.
19:24Well, not because of the scale, Jörg.
19:26I'm quite...
19:26It doesn't have the scale.
19:28If you look, see, in Ireland at the moment, we've got half a billion.
19:31Sales already into India in terms of whiskey.
19:34Already.
19:34Before we start.
19:36Where's the Mercosur?
19:36Exports are tiny, from an Irish perspective.
19:39270 million consumers.
19:40I think the viewers...
19:41Can assess that.
19:431.5, 1.4 billion.
19:44We will continue discussing it in one minute.
19:46But just, we must take a short break here on The Ring.
19:49But stay with us, because we'll be back very soon.
19:51With some more political punch from the Parliament.
20:01Welcome back to The Ring, Eurie News' weekly debating show.
20:06Here, broadcasting from the Parliament in Brussels.
20:09I'm joined by MEP's Ciaran Mulloo.
20:11I'm Jürgen Warburne.
20:13And the idea here is to bring the Parliament debates to your sofa.
20:16What about you?
20:18Well, according to a recent Eurobarometer, what do Europeans think?
20:21What do you think of the EU trade policy?
20:23Well, 77% support the EU's common trade policy.
20:2683% say that the EU should strengthen its economic industry.
20:31Dependence and diversify its trade relations, but at least...
20:3675% of citizens agree that agricultural imports should only ever...
20:41enter the European Union if they comply with the EU's environmental animal...
20:46welfare and labour standards.
20:49Are you surprised there?
20:50No, not a bit.
20:51Not a bit.
20:51I'm pro...
20:51Pro trade, and I'm the person who says we have to make these deals and make sure that
20:55they're the right deals.
20:56The key one is the last stat, the 75%.
20:59At the end of the day, people want to have safe food.
21:01And if...
21:01If the safeguards are to mean anything, then they've got to come back in front of Parliament.
21:05We start looking at them again.
21:06We've got to find out, where did the meat come from last September in Ireland?
21:09Nobody knows.
21:10It's still a mystery.
21:11We...
21:11We can't go forward until we have clear safeguards on these issues.
21:15You're going to...
21:15Your reaction there to...
21:16I'm not surprised at all.
21:18Well, if I am surprised, it's rather that the...
21:21The last number isn't higher, because of course, we are all concerned with food safety.
21:26And my point is that with the Mercosur agreement, food safety...
21:31will actually increase.
21:33We will have more checks, 50% more checks in the Mercosur.
21:36countries, 33% more checks as our border, a task force of increasing efficiency.
21:41So, I guess that means that we will find...
21:46The meat or other products that are not good for us.
21:51Why is the Mercosur deal so toxic then?
21:54Is there a communications issue here?
21:55Have you been miscommunicated?
21:56This deal and the benefits, perhaps?
21:58I think so.
21:59And I...
21:59You know, I also admit that there are sensitive...
22:01For the agriculture sector as a whole, it's huge, it's potent...
22:06It's huge potential for dairy, for wine, for a lot of different products, but...
22:11For some products, they are sensitive.
22:13It's beef, it's poultry, it's sugar, it's a few others.
22:16But here, the Commission has really been clever in negotiating it.
22:21It's tariff rate...
22:21Meaning, the volumes are small, relatively small, 1.5...
22:265% maximum in consumption of the European consumption for beef.
22:31One steak per year.
22:32For an opening standard.
22:33On opening day.
22:34One steak.
22:35And then it goes...
22:36And then it grows...
22:36No, it doesn't. It's in the agreement.
22:38So it's one state committee.
22:40And then, with a quote,
22:41then you have the safeguards,
22:44meaning that prices cannot decrease too much.
22:46Then tariffs kick in.
22:48And there is also an insurance policy in terms of money.
22:51I think the good news on the vote last week
22:53is that Europe is changing its mind
22:55about the entire America's ordeal now.
22:57We've seen...
22:58Who is?
22:58I was told that...
22:59Who in Europe?
22:59I haven't seen a commission president change her mind.
23:01I think social...
23:01To be very clear about it...
23:03These statistics says something else.
23:04To be very clear about it,
23:05when we voted on...
23:06But does who...
23:06Who has changed their mind?
23:07I'm really curious.
23:08Can I answer the question?
23:08Last year, when we had a vote,
23:10we had 10, 11...
23:11Social Democrats who abstained.
23:13This week, they voted in favour of the legal agreement.
23:15I believe they'll vote in...
23:16to knock down Mercosur.
23:18That's who's changed their mind.
23:19That's why we won this week, by the way.
23:21It wasn't...
23:21So the left put the motion for it.
23:23The right were involved.
23:24But at the end of the day,
23:24it was Social Democrats from Romania...
23:26and Hungary that changed their mind in this situation.
23:29And that's happening right across the border.
23:31with regard to Mercosur.
23:32But it's very political.
23:33Because of the safety issues.
23:34It's very political too.
23:34At the end of the day, it's about food quality.
23:36It's...
23:36You asked the question,
23:38what did the commission do wrong?
23:39The commission failed to recognise
23:40the cultural problem in Britain.
23:41This is an examination that went over 3,000 kilometres,
23:46over 14...
23:46You disagree, sir.
23:48It's right across the border.
23:48You can't change that overnight.
23:50You can't.
23:51Okay, let's just hear from...
23:51We're putting forward great arguments
23:54for provisional application, actually.
23:56Meaning that the Mercosur agreement should now start
24:00to be in force...
24:01As soon as possible.
24:03Because the vote last week...
24:06You didn't...
24:07You didn't read the agreement,
24:09but you still voted to send it for legal...
24:11Checks.
24:13Meaning that what you are really against
24:15is the Mercosur agreement.
24:16And that's why it was a delaying process
24:20from you and some colleagues.
24:21But we cannot afford to delay the process.
24:24We have been negotiating this for 25...
24:2625...
24:2625 years, indeed.
24:28And now we need to put it into force.
24:30And I think...
24:30And forget about 250.
24:31If we...
24:31Not happening.
24:32No, no, no.
24:32We do more checks.
24:33So when we put it into action...
24:36Then, export will grow.
24:39Jobs will grow.
24:40And that will be very good for you.
24:41The only thing that won't grow,
24:42that's the trees in the Amazon.
24:43You seem to have forgotten that issue.
24:45And I'm sure your Swedish viewers
24:46are interested in that as well.
24:46We heard at Christmas...
24:47They are. They haven't.
24:48We heard at Christmas...
24:49That's why we have...
24:49That the biggest soya producers in Brazil...
24:51are going back into the rainforest.
24:53And on that point, Kieran Malouly...
24:55That's what you're voting for.
24:56No, no.
24:56That's what you're voting for.
24:56But that's a fact.
24:57No, no, no.
24:58They have breached an agreement...
24:59Once again...
25:00They have breached an agreement...
25:01And they're going back...
25:01into the rainforest.
25:02We're going to see more trees cut...
25:04than ever before.
25:05And you're saying that's fine.
25:06We're going to go ahead on a provisional...
25:08I want to continue quizzing you.
25:09...we're going to have two years to go ahead?
25:10So haven't we...
25:11I don't think so.
25:11So that's the view from...
25:13You didn't read the agreement.
25:15That is the view from Kieran Malouly...
25:16Now it is time though...
25:19to move on to our fifth and final round.
25:21Are you ready?
25:26So I'm going...
25:26to ask our MEPs a set of questions...
25:28and you only can answer with a yes or no.
25:31Is that doable?
25:33Debatable.
25:34Debatable.
25:34Not easy at all.
25:36Ursula von der Leyen a good leader?
25:38Kieran.
25:38Yes or no?
25:39No.
25:39Yes.
25:40Do you like that Brussels...
25:41trades on behalf of the 27?
25:43Kieran.
25:44Yes.
25:44In key areas.
25:45Yes.
25:46Is globalisation a good thing, Jorgen?
25:50Yes.
25:51Yes, India.
25:51In control and regulated.
25:53Kieran, is the EU relevant on the world stage now in 2020?
25:56Well, yes is the answer and I'm a big believer in that.
25:59But we have to be even more relevant and not reacting to the US.
26:01and other parties, other world powers.
26:03Yes.
26:03And with the Mercosur agreement, even more so.
26:05Was it...
26:06made a mistake to sign the EU-US trade deal back in Scotland back in July?
26:12No.
26:13Yes, because we were bullied.
26:15On that Sunday in July, we were...
26:16our president of the commission was bullied into submission.
26:19Not the circumstances...
26:20Could I maybe comment?
26:21Should that...
26:21deal be ratified, yes or no?
26:23I think it should stay suspended until we clarify exactly what's going on.
26:26in the United States.
26:27We need that deal.
26:29We need it concrete and we thought we had it.
26:30We're getting there with the yes or no.
26:31No, Mr. Malouli.
26:32We need more predictability.
26:34I say more.
26:34We cannot create a lot of...
26:36We can...
26:36We cannot create absolutely stable situation for businesses at the moment.
26:40So should the deal be ratified?
26:41It should be.
26:41Because it creates more predictability than today.
26:44Final question, Mr. Malouli.
26:45Did you agree with anything?
26:46That Jürgen Varbon said today.
26:48Oh, I certainly did.
26:49I mean, we...
26:49The overall trade, Jürgen is right.
26:51We need to do the big deals.
26:53That's why I'm happy with India.
26:55But it all comes down at the end of the day for me.
26:56to a personal choice.
26:58Jürgen, would you be happy with your family eating Brazilian meat tomorrow?
27:01And what about you?
27:01Yes, yes, absolutely.
27:04I do eat Brazilian meat and Irish meat.
27:06Even though you have no idea where it came from?
27:08I have no problems with that.
27:09And just a final point with you.
27:09Did you agree with anything Kieran Malouli said?
27:11Yes, I think it is very good that Kieran is supportive of the Indians.
27:16We need the agreement with India.
27:19We need that.
27:20We need more trade agreements.
27:21Okay.
27:21What a lively debate.
27:23I think we've given our viewers a real glimpse of what it's like inside the heated...
27:26Thank you so much, Jürgen Vorborn and Kieran Malouli for being our guests.
27:31It was great to hear.
27:31your views.
27:32And we'd also like to hear yours.
27:34So please do reach out.
27:35Their ring at your...
27:36That is our email address.
27:38Get in touch.
27:39We love hearing from you.
27:40But stay with us here on your own news.
27:41Peace.
27:42Peace.
27:43Peace.
27:44Peace.
27:46Peace.
27:51Peace.
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