00:00Commissioner, thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
00:03You are the man of the hour in Strasbourg.
00:06Some would say you just saved the car industries.
00:09Others would argue that you just killed the Green Deal
00:12by scrapping this ban on the combustion engine cars.
00:16Which one is it?
00:17Let's face it, neither is true.
00:19What we're doing here is we do seek to help this hugely important industry
00:24not just to survive but also thrive on European soil going forward.
00:28That is one.
00:28Secondly, this is going to be absolutely climate neutral.
00:32The only thing we're doing is we're introducing a provision
00:35that allows companies to continue to sell, for example, hybrids or plug-ins
00:41and compensate the emissions with green steel.
00:44That's a win also for climate.
00:46So you argue there is too much drama around this question
00:49because you've seen it.
00:50The response from some groups has been
00:51this is a commission that is now erratic and it's killing the Green Deal.
00:55Well, let's see because the debate, of course, still needs to play out.
01:01But if you look at this whole package with greening the corporate fleet,
01:04with Made in Europe local content,
01:07with making sure that on the one hand we introduce flexibilities,
01:10but at the same time we're carbon neutral,
01:13as carbon neutral as we were before,
01:15my assessment is that this package will get broad political support.
01:22And how much pressure?
01:24You know this very well.
01:24There's been reports that the German car lobby pressured you,
01:28pressured the commission very heavily to get this done.
01:31What really happened behind the scenes?
01:32How do you get to this decision?
01:34So the thing is that many member states have opposing views,
01:38that many in parliament have opposing views.
01:40And as always in politics, what you do need to do
01:42is carve out what you think is best in the short,
01:46but particularly also in the long run,
01:48and that has a landing zone.
01:50And there will be no one who likes all the elements of this compromise.
01:53But many will see that the package with green steel,
01:58with flexibilities, with carbon neutrality,
02:01with corporate fleet, with local content,
02:03that that combination actually is a winner for Europe
02:06from a climate perspective and also from a competitiveness perspective.
02:10So you say there was no pressure.
02:12You never felt pressured by the German industry,
02:14maybe by the German government to take this turn.
02:16You're saying this is my decision and my decision only.
02:19This is of course a decision by the commission
02:22where you take into account all the arguments.
02:26But again, let's face it,
02:27various countries have various objectives.
02:31And what you need to do in politics is,
02:33one, make sure you do what is wise, what is intelligent,
02:37what is in the interest of Europe in the long run.
02:40And at the same time, you do need to have a political landing zone.
02:43And I'm not going to hide that this is for many an important topic.
02:48For some it is even an emotional topic.
02:50So people will make sure that their voices are heard.
02:53But that is true from people from all walks of life here,
02:56not just one specific country or actor.
02:59Is there just too much drama around this narrative of the Green Deal is coming under attack?
03:05Because they accuse you of erratic policy,
03:07but also if you look at some of the measures that different groups are asking,
03:11you could argue there are also erratic asks,
03:13flexibility, but also maintain this Green Deal intact.
03:16Has the moment arrived to simply say the Green Deal as it was conceived in 2019
03:21simply cannot continue because the world has changed?
03:24So the name of the game here is making sure we do our utmost on climate,
03:30competitiveness and independence.
03:32Always that combination, never one at the expense of the other.
03:36That is the North Star, if you will, going forward.
03:41That is what this commission will fight for.
03:43We are completely continuing with all our climate policies.
03:45Once again, this proposal is as climate neutral as what we had yesterday.
03:52But you are right, it continues to be something that draws political attention.
03:58Now there is criticism that we might not be doing enough.
04:01Only four weeks ago there was the opposite criticism,
04:04that the 2040 goal of 90% was too much.
04:06So let's look at the facts.
04:09Let's look at what we're really doing, what we aim to do,
04:12again, with climate, competitiveness and independence as our true North.
04:18And Commissioner, one thing we can agree is that there's whiplash all over the place.
04:21There's too little for some, there's too much for others.
04:23But I wonder, going back to my initial question,
04:25is this now the time to really say the commission cannot continue with this Green Deal
04:30as it was continued in 2019 because the world has changed
04:34and it's time to say it and put it out in the open.
04:36So we're continuing with the ambition.
04:39We're actually even stepping up the ambition if you would compare
04:43what we plan to do between 2030 and 2040
04:46in comparison with this current decade.
04:50But the recipe cannot be the same, right?
04:53If the world changes, the elements and the how is changing.
04:57The why and the what are crystal clear.
04:59But changing the how, making sure that this is effective,
05:03making sure that we take into account, for example,
05:06that the marketplace is flooded by heavily state-subsidized products.
05:09I mean, we cannot ignore the world around us.
05:13That means China, to a large degree, heavily subsidies.
05:16The French president has now said very openly
05:19that this relationship really needs to change.
05:22How do you deal with a country like China?
05:24Well, that is, and I think the French president is exactly right.
05:28The best example is maybe not even cars, but the solar panel industry.
05:33That was a great European industry.
05:3595% of solar panels from 10 years ago were produced in Europe.
05:39That is now less than 5%.
05:41And that is something that we as Europe cannot allow
05:45to have happen in a range of industries, right?
05:48We need a clean transition.
05:50We also need competitiveness.
05:52We also need our independence.
05:53And that combination is what this commission is all about.
05:57The imbalances with China, however, the numbers speak for themselves.
06:00It's not getting better.
06:01So how do you deal with this country now going forward?
06:04You need to get a much more assertive policy
06:07when it comes to the trade tools that you can apply.
06:09How do you deal with a country like China?
06:11Well, that is exactly what the dialogue in Europe,
06:13but also with China, should be all about, right?
06:16That we're open to trade.
06:19We're in favor of competition.
06:20But it needs to be fair competition.
06:22It needs to be fair trade.
06:23And if we cannot have that, then we will change our recipe.
06:27And that's exactly the conversation we're in.
06:29So what does that recipe look like?
06:31You say if it's not working, then we're going to change it.
06:33What does that look like?
06:34I mean, you know the examples.
06:35And you know that the commission, for example,
06:37in the domain of cars have already taken steps in the past.
06:41I'm not going to elaborate on what we might do
06:44and all the what-ifs that are there.
06:47But what is crystal clear and what it is that Europe can
06:51and should expect from others is, on the one hand, competition.
06:55Competition is good for you and me as consumers.
06:57It gives us better products against lower prices.
06:59But it needs to be fair.
07:01It needs to be under the same conditionalities
07:04as we are asking from our European companies.
07:07And to move now into a global scale, perhaps you went to COP.
07:11Obviously, the mood felt very differently.
07:14Big delegations from the United States, China and India,
07:17to some extent, decided to skip the meeting.
07:20What needs to change also in this global dynamic?
07:22Because it is clear now that this is not a priority for the United States,
07:25but also it's also clear that Europe cannot pay, or maybe should not even,
07:30pay for everything.
07:31Indeed, and will not, right?
07:33We do more than our fair share on European soil, but also abroad.
07:37If you look at how much we are investing also in climate action abroad,
07:41that is second to none.
07:43And rightly so.
07:45But that needs to be, with solidarity, you also need to have reciprocity.
07:49You cannot just assume that Europe will always save the day.
07:52So that has consequences for the recipe of the COP,
07:55and that is something where we're inviting also the new co-presidency to look into.
08:01And in general, we do need to make sure that not just we step up,
08:05but others do their fair share as well.
08:07So where's the value for money, and who are the others?
08:11So, I mean, just look at the emissions.
08:13Europe is responsible for less than 6% of global emissions.
08:18That means that 94% of global emissions are taking place outside of the European Union.
08:23China is roughly responsible for 30%.
08:25The U.S. is roughly responsible for 12%.
08:28And the list goes on.
08:31This is really something where everyone needs to take more responsibility.
08:37That's just the name of the game.
08:38Just to end on COP, some would argue the format is just not working anymore.
08:42It's time to move on or create something new.
08:44But COP, as it stands, it's becoming irrelevant.
08:47You are there.
08:47Is it irrelevant?
08:49It is relevant, but we will need to look, as I just said, at the very design, right?
08:55Because in the end, there's only one measure of success, and that is impact.
09:00And, yes, we had impact in the domain of particularly adaptation finance, which is hugely important for, for example, our friends in the small islands development states.
09:11But if you look at the overall assessment on mitigation, steps were taken, but it is not enough given the size of the problem we're currently facing.
09:22What I hear from you is that Europe is not going to take the full burden.
09:25You're saying, well, we're not going to be paying for everyone.
09:28You can always look at us to take responsibility on European soil.
09:31You can also look at us to help out others with less affluence.
09:36And that is what we have consistently done over the course of over the last decades.
09:40And even last year, compared to this year, we have, again, once again stepped up our financing.
09:46But it takes more than the proverbial to tango here.
09:52And just as a final question, this is a very important week for Europe.
09:55There's a lot of big decisions at stake.
09:57When you look at Ukraine, the reparations loan, the Mercosur, will it happen?
10:01Or is this the end of it if it's not approved in, well, the end of the week?
10:05How do you face this week?
10:07What do you think will happen and what do you wish will happen?
10:10Because those are two different things.
10:11Look, it is a packed agenda with a clear course of action.
10:17And I am confident we will be able, like we did with the cars, like we did with CBAM just today on the carbon border adjustment mechanism,
10:25we will be able to do the same with Mercosur.
10:28And we will do our utmost.
10:30We'll do our utmost to make sure we also stand by our Ukrainian friends to make sure that what we get there is just and fair,
10:39first and foremost, for their sake.
10:42On the Mercosur, just a final question here, because if it's not approved and it does not get done,
10:47some say it's international embarrassment for the European Union,
10:50but beyond, it just means the party's over, the Mercosur will die.
10:54If it's not done now, it is dead for good now.
10:57Do you agree?
10:57Let's not do all sorts of what-ifs and what maybe could happen.
11:01I am confident that this is a deal that is good for Europeans, that is good for European member states,
11:08that is good for European industry.
11:09And the same is true for our counterparts in Latin America.
11:14And therefore, in my view, there is a clear imperative to continue with this deal,
11:20to sign it off and then enjoy the fruits of it.
11:24Well, Commissioner, thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
11:26Always good to see you.
11:27Thank you very much.
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