- 11 minutes ago
Kristen Stewart, Jessica Chastain, Jennifer Hudson, Tessa Thompson, Kirsten Dunst and Emilia Jones joined The Hollywood Reporter to talk about their respective projects.
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00:00I love the idea of being underappreciated in your time.
00:03Yes!
00:04Oh, it's so fun!
00:05I think it's fantastic!
00:06I'm provocative, I'm creating a conversation.
00:08Oh, I'm polarizing! Amazing!
00:30Hi, everyone, and thank you for tuning in to the Hollywood Reporter's Actress Roundtable.
00:42I'm the host, Scott Feinberg, and I am so thrilled to be joined in person by six tremendous actresses
00:48who did outstanding work in 2021.
00:51There are a lot of people tuning in who, you know, for a moment like this seems very far away.
00:56They might have ambitions to follow, whether it's in acting or something else.
01:01And I think that they might find it interesting to know when, for you, a moment like this felt furthest away, let's say,
01:10and what kept you going.
01:12So, Jessica, do you, we'll start with you.
01:14Was there a moment when, you know, did you waver?
01:19Was there ever a time when you almost did not keep going on this path?
01:24No, because I grew up very poor.
01:29So, it kind of was like, I, and I think it's a great thing because I never had parents who were like,
01:34you need to be a doctor.
01:35It was just kind of like, whatever you want to do, go for it, you know.
01:38So, I kind of just, even starting out, I was, I would have been, when I was in high school,
01:43I dreamed about being in the Ashland, Oregon Shakespeare Festival and working in the Repertory Company.
01:49So, this is beyond. It's pretty cool.
01:52And so, as long as I could pay my rent and I had food, I was happy.
01:57I never really had a moment of like, I'm going to give it all up.
02:00Jennifer?
02:01Jennifer?
02:02Wow.
02:03Um, I still feel like I have moments like that, but I don't allow that to be the thing to drive me.
02:10I do everything because I'm passionate about it and hopefully it's received well.
02:16Because to me, the gift is being able to do what we love to do.
02:19You know what I mean?
02:20So, I like to focus on being my passion.
02:24Yeah.
02:25And let whatever happens, happen.
02:27Yeah.
02:28You know?
02:29Well, Kristen, you started in this business at a very young age.
02:31And all these years between then and now, have you ever thought about doing something else?
02:38Oh yeah, I'm just, I'm tormented every day of my life.
02:41I've got to get out of this business and it's killing me.
02:44Um, no, I, I, uh, no, if I hadn't gotten to the place, this beautiful, luxurious place of choice,
02:55and like, you know, um, uh, I would have found my way into production.
03:01I want to make movies.
03:02I, I grew up in a, in a sort of film centric family and, um, I'm pretty still starving for it.
03:10I'm really luck, lucky in that way.
03:13Yeah, I think, uh, maybe there was one, one point I told my mom that she didn't have to keep driving me to auditions
03:18because it just wasn't really happening.
03:20And so then, I think right after that point, I got my first job.
03:25And so, at nine, thank God, I, I stuck with it.
03:30Hadn't, yeah, hadn't knocked me down yet.
03:33Absolutely.
03:34Tessa, how about you?
03:35I, uh, well, I grew up in Los Angeles.
03:38I'm a Los Angeles native.
03:40And we lived, my dad is a musician, and we lived in a studio just on, like, Yucca and Ivar.
03:45So, the Hollywood Walk of Fame was, like, my front yard, essentially.
03:50Wow.
03:51And I don't know.
03:52I think for some reason there are no actors in my family because of the proximity to the industry.
03:58I was, in some ways, so close to it and yet so far, like, I never understood how people ended up in movies.
04:04It didn't make sense to me.
04:06Like, the only thing that made sense was going to New York or something or being in theatre.
04:10I liken it to, if you were in Detroit at the height of the automotive industry, you wouldn't be like, I want to make cars.
04:17You know?
04:18You'd be like, I want to do something else somewhere else.
04:20Because that's what you think of when you're young, is how do you get away from where you are, even if the place you are is lovely.
04:26So, I will say, like, this is always a dream to me and I just love storytelling.
04:32So, on the days where I'm like, I'm going to pack up my stuff and leave, I still want to, like, pack it up and be involved in story in some way.
04:40I just, it feels unavoidable for me.
04:43And now I've done it so long, there's nothing else I can do.
04:46You're in.
04:47I'm not certified to do anything else.
04:49Well, Kirsten, you're another person who started very young in this business.
04:53Was there such a moment for you?
04:55I feel like I've had so many moments like that.
04:57Yeah.
04:58Like, being 16 and working with Sofia Coppola at an age where it was like, oh, this is like the sexiest role I've ever played, but it's through a woman's eyes.
05:06So, that was a really, that for me, like, set me up in a huge way that I didn't realize until later in life.
05:13So, that was, that was a turning point.
05:16And also, just approaching acting and growing as I grew up, learning more about acting.
05:24And hopefully, everyone gets better at your job, you know, the older you get.
05:29So, for me, it was, yeah, just approaching what I do differently and making it more exciting for myself rather than giving to other people.
05:39Amelia, at 19, you are our junior guest.
05:44And yet, you have been at this for a very long time, too.
05:47You're another person who started in the business at a young age, was doing very big projects at a young age.
05:52You know, I, it would be understandable if that moment, you know, if you haven't, but I'm just curious, you know, similar.
05:57Like, I have been acting since I was really young, but at the same time, I feel like I'm kind of just starting out.
06:03I always wanted to act.
06:05I was kind of always role-playing and constantly in my imagination.
06:08I used to drive my parents mental.
06:10They used to just hate role-playing with me all day every day.
06:12I didn't have a sibling at that point in time.
06:13So, I was always dragging them to play with me.
06:16And then, it wasn't really until I had my first kind of lead role in Brimstone, a film that I did when I was 13,
06:25and then I realised, okay, I want to actually do this professionally.
06:28I want to do this for the rest of my life.
06:30I want to do this as a job.
06:31But there were moments where, you know, you're kind of too young and then to play certain roles,
06:36but then you're too old to play the kids, and then you kind of don't, you're at that awkward age,
06:39because, of course, you can find an 18-year-old that can play younger and work up all day, you know, adult hours.
06:45So, there was a moment where I wasn't really working, but I love telling stories as well.
06:50And also, I think learning a lot.
06:53This job, for me, educates me.
06:55I get to see places I would never see.
06:57I get to meet people I would never meet.
06:58I get to learn about people's stories.
07:00And, yeah, I feel like now I've done some projects, and I've been challenged and educated,
07:07and now there's no going back.
07:09I love it.
07:10Well, let's talk about the specific roles that you guys are representing here today.
07:14Jennifer, Aretha Franklin seems like she's been a presence in your life from as far back as you can go.
07:22Can you just share what she meant to you before you crossed paths with her,
07:27and then how that itself changed things?
07:31Wow.
07:32Well, I guess this answer will start from the musician in me, you know what I mean?
07:37Because I always seem to discover everything through music first.
07:41And Aretha was one of those people for me.
07:44Like, I grew up in the church, singing in the choir, and she was like the ideal thing to be growing up in the church choir.
07:51So I was introduced to her through music first.
07:54But then fast forward later, it's like, okay, now portray her, you know?
07:58And it's like, wow.
07:59So that took a whole nother perspective of how to look at it, which completely changed the game for me.
08:06Whereas like, I know her musically, but then once I was blessed to be able to meet her as a person, be around her, or tribute her in song versus portraying her.
08:16But I think it ended up helping in a lot of ways.
08:20Because again, I like to, no matter what I'm doing, music is always the undertone.
08:25I wake up, my baby up in the morning is through music.
08:27You know what I mean?
08:28If I'm in a commercial, it's through music.
08:30It's through music.
08:31Church is through music.
08:33So that's always the insight first for me.
08:36And that's my first connection to her and with her and still is.
08:41Well, and if we want to talk about sort of fate, what was your American Idol audition song?
08:45My American Idol audition song was Share Your Love With Me by Miss Aretha Franklin.
08:51That was my introduction to the world.
08:53And that is what I mean by, it's crazy, right?
08:56Like, I guess like how things, things, I always say nothing is just.
09:03And everything prepares you for what's to come.
09:05And I don't know if you guys can relate, but I find that when you're preparing for a character,
09:10for me, it's like somehow I'm already kind of connected to it in some type of way.
09:16Or even after.
09:17Yeah, something inside you already percolating kind of.
09:19Yeah.
09:20Yeah.
09:21I don't know what that means, but that was my audition song and my introduction to the world.
09:25And I sit and say, well, look at that.
09:27Yeah, I guess.
09:29I can only think.
09:30And in this case, you were literally, I guess after the Oscar for Dreamgirls,
09:35you're very much on her and everyone else's radar.
09:38There's a personal relationship that starts and she was, you were her.
09:42Wow.
09:43Yes.
09:44And then it was my dream to want to just be like her as a singer, you know?
09:48And it's one thing when you get to meet the people you look up to.
09:51And then for her to say, oh, I want you to play me.
09:54Huh?
09:55That's a lot of pressure.
09:56That's a lot of pressure.
09:57Yeah, that's a lot of pressure.
09:58It's a dream, but a lot of pressure at the same time.
10:00And it's like, oh my God, I can't wait to do this.
10:02And then, oh my God, what did I do?
10:04It's a bit of both, you know, that comes with it.
10:08But her having that faith in me gave me the courage and the faith to be able to get through it.
10:15Well, and speaking of, you know, somebody having confidence in you to do something that maybe you yourself need some convincing.
10:23Initially, Kirsten, you've talked about the fact that Pablo Lorraine reaches out and says, I see you as Princess Diana.
10:30And it maybe was not as obvious on the surface to you.
10:34Is that the way you reacted basically?
10:37Yeah, I mean, his confidence was contagious and kind of assuring in this way.
10:45But then as soon as I wasn't on the phone with him, like, give me five minutes to sit in my room alone.
10:51And I'm like, I don't know this woman yet.
10:53I don't, it's, I also at this point, you know, people ask about the initial sort of knee jerk reaction and what it felt like to get the call.
11:02I hadn't read the script yet.
11:04He was talking a lot about it being a projected, imagining, poetic sort of fever dream that takes place over three days.
11:15And so it didn't feel, basically, he was like, he didn't really give me much of an option.
11:20I sort of approached it like, who am I to say no to this?
11:24Like, you're an actor. You want to do good stuff? You want to challenge yourself?
11:28Like, what are you doing if you, like, retreat?
11:32So, kind of before it was a responsible yes, I was like, yeah, of course.
11:39I mean, sure, I can't, I mean, it's either, like, fall on your face completely, which is fine.
11:45At least, you know, die trying.
11:47But yeah, like when I said, yes, let's do this movie.
11:51It's not like I knew her well enough or how my body and my heart and my mind was going to react to her.
11:59I did not know that I was going to do anything with it.
12:03I just sort of, as you guys know, like, even if it's a real person that you're playing, I can't know her.
12:10You still have to sort of comprise this character out of a list of attributes and things you love about them.
12:17It doesn't exist. Like, it exists in the world of cinema only.
12:20And like, I can only get as close to her as I could get to myself and blah, blah, blah.
12:23But at this point, I was just like, yeah, for sure. I mean, I have to. I can't say no.
12:29I'm not the first person to observe that this movie picks sort of focuses on her as she comes out of her 20s of being under the microscope, the public eye, the spotlight to some degree tormented by that.
12:42You were one of the people in your 20s throughout the 20s who was probably most under the microscope.
12:49It's a different era. It's a different kind of fame.
12:52But I do wonder if you felt you could connect with her in some way about, you know, how you handle that.
12:59Yeah, it seems like the most clear sort of parallel similarity thing.
13:07That there are like a lot of cameras in our lives, but the reason that they're there is so different.
13:13And I can, you know, sprawlingly just navigate life like a person that's allowed to learn and choose and make mistakes.
13:25And yeah, I mean, I guess it's it's a not to say that your question isn't incredible and it is.
13:33It's just a really common one because I think it's it's from an outsider's perspective.
13:46It's really easy to be like, oh, that's the same. It couldn't couldn't be more different.
13:51I'm not running from anything. I'm running towards everything.
13:55Do you know what I mean? Like this person wasn't even allowed to, you know, be a person.
14:01And she was so young when it all started. Imagine being 19.
14:05Like that is just such a stilted process of developing and figuring out who you are and whatever.
14:11So I I know what it's like to sort of assume even maybe sometimes wrongly that everyone's looking at you when you walk into a room,
14:19even if they're not sort of to be like, well, they probably are that that I can relate to sort of going like, oh,
14:26I'm gonna go to the bathroom right now and I wonder if anyone's gonna like walk in there after me.
14:30But that's that's only the small sort of weird stuff that I can relate to.
14:34Other than that, it's like a just horribly different life.
14:39Yeah, I hear you.
14:41Kirsten, Jane Campion, how did you first hear from her?
14:45I think we actually go back well before the power of the dog.
14:48Yeah, I saved this letter she wrote me on my phone because, you know, it's Jane Campion.
14:52And I was like, oh, my God, she wrote me in my early 20s about working together.
14:56And it never came to fruition, obviously.
14:59But she's someone who, you know, her movies, her heroines in her movies or her are have inspired me in my own career.
15:07Like those performances are things that as I learned about film and got to know about performances and and what made me feel brave in it as an actress and just like lay it all out there.
15:18I mean, that's like performances in her movies.
15:21So for me, yeah, I didn't I don't I read the script, but I mean, I if she calls, you say yes.
15:28You know what I mean?
15:29You just you don't really.
15:30Yeah, you don't mess around with Jane Campion.
15:32Yeah, absolutely.
15:34And Tessa, I want to ask you, this is your movie is originally, you know, the original source material is this novel from the 20s novella.
15:44Were you familiar with the story that that that it was based on when you got the script or what was the order of events here?
15:52Embarrassingly, no.
15:53I think that's a testament to the fact that Nella Larson, who wrote Passing, this beautiful, slim, it's 93 pages and so much happens.
16:03But I didn't know about the book.
16:06And I think so many people don't because she's sort of unsung and underappreciated in her time.
16:11She made one other book called Quicksand, which is also really exquisite.
16:16But I got a phone call saying, I don't think you can make this movie, but you might want to.
16:21It's based on this book.
16:22You should read the book and then you should read the screenplay.
16:25And I opened the book and I read it in one sitting and I closed it.
16:29And I remember just having it in my hand for a long time.
16:32I couldn't move.
16:33I was so haunted by it.
16:34And then I opened my laptop and I read what Rebecca Hall wrote.
16:38And it was such a beautiful, dedicated adaptation of this thing that feels unadaptable.
16:45Because there's a real interiority to the book.
16:49And I didn't know how you could communicate that on screen.
16:52But Rebecca did.
16:54In exploring her American side of her family, she found that there may have been a close relative of hers who had lived his or her life passing.
17:04Yeah, her mother's from Detroit and she had always sort of had some sense.
17:10And also she would look at her mom and think like, I feel like there's a there there.
17:14And her mom would kind of allude to maybe her grandfather was maybe this or maybe that.
17:21And so 13 years ago someone gave her this book and said you should read this book.
17:26And it was the first time that she had this context for what passing was.
17:31She didn't have the language around what her grandfather might have done.
17:35And he sort of passed this legacy on to her mom and thereby to Rebecca.
17:41And so she started to adapt the book, not thinking necessarily she would make the film,
17:45but she needed to exorcise all of these feelings and ideas around her own identity that was a mystery to her through these pages.
17:54And I think that was one of the things that attracted me to the project
17:57because I feel like when you make something, particularly an adaptation, you want to have skin in the game.
18:03You want to have a personal reason to be telling the story.
18:07And I love that Rebecca did.
18:10And stuck with it for a long time.
18:12It took us some time to get away too, yeah.
18:15So Amelia, you, I guess, are going about your business as the star of this Netflix series, Lock and Key.
18:23You are, I guess, just sort of out of the blue here about a project from Sean Hader.
18:30Or what was the, what was the, was it an audition?
18:33Yeah, well, so I hadn't even started Lock and Key when I thought I got Coda.
18:37So I really, I read the script and the minute I read it, I thought,
18:41okay, whoever gets to play this role is an incredibly lucky actress
18:45because it's not every day where you get to learn sign language.
18:48I have always wanted to learn, but I just never had the opportunity.
18:52They didn't, I didn't learn it at school.
18:54They didn't offer it.
18:55I loved the family and I loved that Coda's about a family and a culture that's like rarely seen on screen,
19:01but it's also not just focusing on the fact that they're deaf.
19:04It's about a family dynamic, you know, we're dysfunctional like most families are,
19:08although we don't like to admit it.
19:10I'll admit it.
19:12I admit it.
19:14So I play Ruby and she's a Coda.
19:16And Codas basically feel like they're part of two worlds,
19:20both the hearing world and the deaf world, but they don't really feel like they belong to either.
19:24And then my character discovers his love for singing and that was also fun.
19:29I'd never had a singing lesson before.
19:31So I was...
19:32You hadn't?
19:33No.
19:34So that I was scared.
19:35You sing so well.
19:36Oh my gosh, what a compliment.
19:39No, I mean, I like, I sing in the shower and around the house.
19:42And my dad's a singer.
19:43So I'd kind of grown up around music, but I had no technique and didn't bell or anything.
19:48And then I did this tiny cover when I auditioned, although I haven't for a while.
19:55But it was nice because I trained for nine months with sign language and just singing.
20:00But it was nice because in terms of singing while we were shooting,
20:03we kind of shot chronologically, musically-wise.
20:06So it meant that as my voice was growing, Ruby's voice was growing too.
20:10So that was nice because I was very scared going into...
20:13Everyone was like, oh, were you most scared about the sign language?
20:15And I was like, actually, it's kind of singing.
20:17I just knew that I had to get into Berkeley.
20:19And I was like, I have to be able to get into this amazing school.
20:22But it was the hardest thing I've ever done, but also the most rewarding.
20:26I'm still learning sign language.
20:28But I auditioned with Landslide by Fleetwood Mac.
20:32And I did this kind of gentle cover on my guitar.
20:34I was ill at the time.
20:35So I was like, I don't know sign language.
20:38I'm ill and I'm 17 and I'm British.
20:40So I was like, this is just not going to happen.
20:42But I auditioned anyway because I loved the script.
20:44And then I spoke with Sean about Coda and about Ruby.
20:47And I was like, oh my gosh, I'd love to do this project.
20:49And then Sean said to me, look, I know you don't know any sign language,
20:52but if I send you my friend signing this scene, will you kind of copy it the best you can?
20:57And I was like, okay.
20:58I was like, I love a challenge, obviously.
21:00So I was like, okay, yeah, I'm going to do it.
21:02I watched the link.
21:03They sent it on Friday night.
21:04I watched it.
21:05I think I was flying to do Lock and Key on the Tuesday morning.
21:09So I was like, okay, Friday, I'm going to work all weekend on it.
21:11I watched the link and then obviously I'm British.
21:14So I went to make a cup of tea.
21:15And then I went to come back to watch it and like properly work on it.
21:18And the link expired.
21:20And I was like, there's just no way I can do this justice.
21:23Like I watched it twice.
21:24But I remembered that Ruby would fingerspell Berkeley.
21:27And fingerspelling is so hard at first.
21:28Like B, E, R.
21:30So all weekend I was just like, Berkeley, Berkeley, Berkeley, Berkeley, Berkeley.
21:34And then I stayed up till like 4am when I finally got the link on the Monday.
21:37And then I remember Sean called me and she was like, the role's yours if you want it.
21:41No one could believe how fast your fingerspelling was.
21:44And what I thought was a disaster not having the link actually, I guess, worked in my face.
21:48Luckily, no one knew me when I was doing it.
21:50So I didn't have any pressure.
21:51Although it was a lot of pressure.
21:52I was like, I'm just going to give it my all and work really, really hard.
21:55So Jessica, you are both the star and producer of your film.
22:00And I think it kind of traces back to a documentary, right?
22:03That it's that, I mean, people knew.
22:05You go to the supermarket, you look at the tabloids.
22:07There's Tammy Faye and Jim Baker at a certain time in our lives.
22:11But you found, I guess, from the documentary that there was a lot more to the story.
22:15Yeah, I was on the press tour for Zero Dark Thirty, jet lagged somewhere.
22:18I saw the documentary.
22:19And actually my first response was I felt really guilty.
22:23Because I realized, and so when we're talking about media and all of these things,
22:28we're fed these ideas.
22:30And my memory of her was that she was vulgar,
22:33that she was a criminal, she was a bad person, all of these things.
22:36And then I saw the documentary and I was like,
22:38why have we spent so much time talking about the amount of mascara she wore
22:43rather than actually what she did?
22:45And in 1985, she brought on Steve Peters onto her show.
22:49This is a time when the Reagan administration wasn't even talking about the AIDS epidemic.
22:53And she looked into the camera.
22:55Steve Peters was an openly gay minister with AIDS.
22:58And she reminded Christians what it means to be Christian and that you love through anything.
23:02And that's the way with Jesus.
23:03And she went up against Jerry Falwell and all of the guys in the televangelist community.
23:11And she was awesome and it was a radical act of love.
23:15And I felt it was my responsibility to try to, because I had personal guilt,
23:20I guess the judgment that we may have against women in history that the media has fed us one story.
23:29I felt like I needed to right that wrong.
23:32Also, Zero Dark Thirty was all about a woman who wanted revenge.
23:36And Tammy's the opposite.
23:38She was a woman who believed in unconditional love and forgiveness.
23:41So I think I needed that medicine, you know, at that time.
23:45So for you, Jessica, and anyone else who's here representing a character that was or is a real person,
23:53how do you calculate whether or not you want to reach out, if it's possible, to that person or a survivor?
24:02Or, you know, there are, I'm sure, numerous considerations, even if you want to do it, when do you do it?
24:08Tammy Faye is no longer with us.
24:10Jim is, I don't know if he's still in jail or where he is, but she's got...
24:14He's selling COVID cures.
24:16Really?
24:17Yeah.
24:18Oh, my God.
24:19Well, but I think she has kids, right?
24:21Yeah, she has two kids.
24:22He likes to say it.
24:23What?
24:24She's just like...
24:25No, she is.
24:26No, no, no.
24:27He's had so many different lives.
24:29And our film, you know, so much of the media connected her to him and his, you know, misdeeds.
24:36And I really wanted to show her separate from the man that was in her life.
24:42So we stopped.
24:43I read his book, which was titled, I Was Wrong, that he wrote in jail.
24:47And ever since then, he's gone on to do other things.
24:50Listen, go with God.
24:53But I reached out to her children, who are incredible.
24:59They continue her legacy.
25:01Her daughter sings the song in our credits.
25:04She does her mom's song.
25:06And her son, Jay Baker, started his own church, Revolution Church, officiates gay weddings.
25:11It's incredible.
25:12I mean, it was a tough call to make because you have to get their trust.
25:17And these are kids who were traumatized by the media.
25:20And so that was difficult.
25:23But once they understood my intention, it was, it was heaven to me.
25:27Like they told me she wore this perfume from this year to this year.
25:30I asked this, then this one.
25:32I asked the daughter, what was your mom's favorite color?
25:35And she said, pink and leopard.
25:38Yeah.
25:39So it was just, you know, it's a scary thing.
25:44It was scary to reach out, but I'm glad I did.
25:47Yeah.
25:48And Kristen, I mean, obviously, it's been 24 years since we lost Princess Diana, but there
25:54are plenty of people who knew and remember her.
25:57Is there a temptation to reach out to any of them?
26:01Well, it's a pretty insulated world, you know?
26:06I think people that want to speak to that period of time or weigh in in any meaningful way have
26:15written memoirs and they're available.
26:18And, you know, there are many perspectives duly expressed.
26:27And we kind of absorbed everything that we could.
26:31For me, the script was so precisely written and such a tone poem versus anything kind of
26:38educational.
26:39Like we watched all the documentaries and stuff and read all the memoirs and the, you know,
26:44the personal protection officer's memoir and the actual maid's memoir talking about like
26:49the hairs that she would find on pillowcases and stuff, like really invasive stuff.
26:55Yeah.
26:56And there were so many contradicting sort of kind of misleading, but still very interesting things
27:07that you could accumulate and put together.
27:10And ultimately, I think because the movie is so really not presenting anything new, you bring all of your,
27:19and not just me having done all the research, but people in the world watching the movie,
27:23interacting with what it is, they're going to bring everything that they already know about the story,
27:28what actually happened, all of their impressions of her to us.
27:32And we kind of exist in this realm, like in this in between very internal space.
27:39So we kind of couldn't do anything wrong.
27:41As long as there wasn't anything starkly wrong that like jutted out, she hated cigarette smoke.
27:47There was a scene between Sally Hawkins character and myself, kind of this reprieve where we go outside and have a smoke.
27:53And I was like, we can't do that.
27:54And they're like, yeah, but we don't, this is, we're not the authoritative tale.
27:56I'm like, but for people that know and care and are connected to it, that will take them out of it immediately.
28:01And I want everyone to be in with us.
28:03So in terms of reaching out personally to people that are involved, they've sort of endured our curiosities enough.
28:11I mean, or as much to the extent that they would like to, and I would never want to sort of penetrate that.
28:16Having said that, we so led with love on this, like we make no presumptions.
28:23I have no idea how she felt.
28:24I have no idea what actually went on behind closed doors.
28:27But she is somebody that wanted to bridge gaps.
28:30And she is somebody that, that so unabashedly and without any creepy earnestness, but true craving, wanted to bring people together and herself be closer to others.
28:45And that's all we're trying to do on this movie too.
28:48So for anyone who is, for the kids, for people, I mean, look, Harry and William are in this movie.
28:55We like, they, they, you know, we have these, whatever.
28:58But I will say that, you know, not to like lean into this, but I guess I was given the opportunity, but they're the strongest aspect of the story.
29:09They're the only thing that we know.
29:12As in, when you see pictures of her or videos of her, there is an instability and a brokenness that is apparent even when she's feeling strong.
29:20That is never present when she is with her children, because that is like the only thing in her life that was sure.
29:26She knew that one thing, and it was an unconditional thing.
29:29And that was what she wanted so badly, to just like have something to know, something to hold on to.
29:34So the one thing that I think is kind of an unshakable, at least attempt, I don't know if, I mean, look, it's hard to talk about results in cases like this.
29:42But the coolest thing for me was to be able to really show that that little bubble is the coolest part of her.
29:50It's the coolest part of her.
29:52Yeah.
29:53It comes through.
29:54Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
29:56Jennifer, you were maybe one of the, you were certainly one of the last people to even talk to Aretha Franklin, and it was a regular conversation, right?
30:05I mean, how many years from when you started a personal relationship with her to when she says, I want you to play me one day, to her passing away?
30:17For me, it's a long time span.
30:20So you're testing my mind.
30:23Okay, let me go back.
30:26My American Idol audition was Show Your Love With Me, right?
30:30Yeah.
30:31Everybody there?
30:32Okay.
30:33Two years later, I got Dreamgirls.
30:34Right.
30:35Next year after that, I won the Oscar for Dreamgirls.
30:38And then right after that, we had our first meeting about me playing her.
30:42And then once I was eliminated from American Idol, she allowed me to open up for her show in Maryville, Indiana.
30:49So I got to meet her.
30:50Wow.
30:51I got to open up the show and watch her perform.
30:53So that was like, oh my God, imagine coming off of a show like Idol and then Aretha Franklin is allowing you to open up a show.
31:00And I was seven plates, okay?
31:02So it's like, what's happening?
31:04And then two years later after that, I went and Oscar, what?
31:08And then after that, Aretha calls and says, let's sit at a table just like this.
31:11Okay, I want you to play me, huh?
31:13I'm just trying to catch up to everything.
31:17So that was 15 years ago, our initial meeting.
31:21Wow.
31:22Yeah.
31:23And then it wasn't until I was on Broadway doing Color Purple where she said, I've made my decision.
31:29And that was eight years after that.
31:31Wow.
31:32It is you who I want to play me.
31:33She reconfirmed.
31:34Yeah.
31:35She was like, I still used to go about it.
31:37Exactly.
31:39It went well, yeah.
31:40Right.
31:41Throughout my career musically, I'm tributing her in song many times.
31:44But having that in the back of my mind, like, okay, every performance was my audition.
31:48It's like the longest audition.
31:50Yeah, right.
31:51So what you said, and I'm like, okay, hold on, let me think about it.
31:54And then, I guess it was 2017.
31:57Like, she literally, we would speak weekly, whether it was through texts or calls.
32:02And I heard from her, it was like August 8th, I want to say.
32:05And then the next day, it was like, she's no longer competent.
32:09And I'm like, and I was one of the last people.
32:12She called, you know what I mean?
32:14So I miss hearing from her, you know?
32:16So it's like, that's like 15 years of my life.
32:19And you really got, I mean, there's no way, you could have read 20 biographies.
32:23There's not going to give the same insight as dealing with somebody for that long.
32:27Yeah.
32:28And then there's so many ways to look at it.
32:29It's like it's Aretha Franklin.
32:30How do you even begin to embody that?
32:32You know?
32:33And that's what I mean by musically.
32:34I'm a fan musically.
32:35So I know what that means, what she represents from that perspective.
32:40And then when you get to know the person, for me as an actor, I like to care for you.
32:46Leading up to it, I'm like, okay, I sing and I act.
32:49So I get why you say, okay, Jennifer played me.
32:52But it wasn't until when we were filming.
32:55And I remember shooting the scene when the Aretha mother comes to her at the piano.
32:59And I was drained from all the emotion of the scene.
33:03And Audre McDonald's like, this is a heavy life to tell.
33:05And in that moment, that's when it hit me.
33:08I was like, this is she saw so much more in me than I saw in myself.
33:12And I was like, I don't think I would have been able to tap into such a vulnerable, honest place in space without my own life experiences.
33:21So if I had to do this 15 years ago, there's no way in the world I would have been ready or able to do it.
33:26You know, so again, it's I just took you through 15 years.
33:29That's amazing.
33:30But things do come to you at certain times when you're more ready, you know.
33:35Or your body needs it almost.
33:37I remember after I did one movie, I played someone depressed.
33:40And then I just kept getting offered these depressing roles.
33:42And I was like, I'm going to do a comedy.
33:44Like, you know, if you won't give it to me, I'll just do something else.
33:47Because I'm like, I can't, you know.
33:49So that's what's neat.
33:50Okay.
33:51Yeah.
33:52So much in like the headspace that a role sometimes demands.
33:54In this case, you are in a film, your real life partner's playing your husband in the film.
34:02Yes.
34:03But your interactions, this is Jessie Plum, it's a great actor.
34:07So cute, yes.
34:08So cute.
34:09The best actor.
34:10Yeah.
34:11But you, I heard there are moments where, you know, Jane would maybe say, I don't think it was,
34:18it's not like chastisingly, but just like, it's not, you know, don't be too familiar.
34:23Don't be, this is a different.
34:25Well, I've told this story.
34:26Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:27So now I'm getting a verbatim back to me.
34:28No, that's what I mean.
34:29Oh yeah.
34:30One scene, I like linked his arm.
34:31And Jane was like, oh, that's a little familiar.
34:33And I was like, oh, you're right.
34:34Just because, you know, it's funny to be so proper with someone that you've had a child with.
34:38It's just not, you know, instinctually, you're like, oh, yes, yes, this is a very, you know, a very 1920s proper.
34:46Yeah, one take, I just linked arms with him to talk to him.
34:49And it was a little too familiar for the characters we were playing.
34:52But basically, the thing here was like, to play a woman who's dealing with a toxic male, the brother-in-law character, Benedict Cumberbatch,
35:01you found ways, I guess, of kind of isolating yourself to get in the headspace of a woman who's shut out like that?
35:10I mean, yes, Benedict and I decided not to speak to each other on set.
35:14Just, we're not even in very many scenes together.
35:17It's kind of like this, you know, he gives me a little tickle in my brain and I just run with it myself.
35:22So she's already in a vulnerable, insecure place where like one person can say something and it just puts you in a tailspin.
35:28But yeah, there were times when I just didn't talk in the day because, you know, when you haven't talked all day and then you speak your first words to somebody,
35:34you're like, oh, it just gives you that lump in your throat and that feeling of just crushing insecurity that that felt for Rose and playing her.
35:43It wasn't like, oh, I need to play Rose. It was such an old past feelings of being young and, you know, overanalyzing things.
35:53And so if this really painful, sad place to live in when you like overcome all these things as a person, to like go back and just live in it every day is just, it just wasn't a fun.
36:05It wasn't a fun, you know, fun, whatever. Nothing's really like, you can't, I hate that.
36:11You know, nothing's like, oh, this was a fun movie, but there are movies where it's better to see what it's weird to see you be like that.
36:18Yeah. Cause you know me. It's like, I'm like a confident human being.
36:21I've worked very hard to just, you know, enjoy this, this, you know, what we do like for myself, you know?
36:28And so to, to play someone who's feels so terrible and it's spinning out of control is, is a very, um, it's just a really hard place to, to live in and go home with. And yeah.
36:42Is there a, uh, coping mechanism that you've found to be able to do that?
36:48Well, thank God I had Jesse on set. To be honest, I thought about that. I was like, well, at least we had lunch together in the trailer and there was a reprieve and we'd ride home together.
36:55And we could, you know, I could say whatever. So I had him.
36:59I can relate hearing you speak. And actually when I watched the film yesterday morning, I thought about the threads between our characters in a way.
37:10Um, Irene is someone that lives pretty squarely in her head and her head is a pretty treacherous place.
37:18So there's discomfort with that. And then I also think in terms of expressing the interiority of the character, there's also like, as an actor, sometimes uncomfortable with, do, does anyone see it?
37:31Does anyone understand? Cause you have the challenge of both not showing because the character doesn't, but showing because you have to let the audience in.
37:38And so that felt, yeah, tricky. I don't know that I figured out the reprieve, like my dog was with me. That was helpful.
37:47Right. Yeah. But yeah, you, yeah.
37:49I think if I didn't have a kid that I had to like engage. Yeah.
37:52Well, that's why the dog was really great. Cause then he'd be there and I'm like, all right, you need to be fed.
37:56You know, like get out of, I didn't get, and then also I'd be like, oh, or you ate my lunch that I left in the little trailer. Like help.
38:04Um, but I remember having a feeling that I've never felt before really is like finishing the scene. Yeah.
38:10Um, it was macaroni and cheese too. I was so impressed. He ate such a big thing and we were in Harlem. He ate like jerk chicken and macaroni and cheese.
38:16I was like, are you okay? He's okay. He's still around. Um, but, but I remember one day finishing the scene and thinking, I felt, I'm sure maybe some of you have felt this.
38:31I felt really horrified that anyone would see it. Um, not because I worried it was bad, just because it, it, there, and I'm, and I'm not sure.
38:43I don't know. Maybe it is bad, but it has more to do with, um, a level of privacy and, and intimacy. And, um, those moments are rare. I mean, you're always aiming for it. But in actuality, I think they're, yeah, they're rare.
38:59They're like lightning in a bottle and, uh, and yeah, I don't know.
39:07Well, and it's interesting just to note that you're both of these characters, Kirsten and Tessa's are 1920s, very different places out in the West, out in Harlem.
39:17In Harlem, but, uh, I guess dealing with.
39:19They'd be friends. They'd help each other.
39:21Yeah, yeah.
39:23Oh, yes. They'd go to therapy together.
39:25It feels like in some ways life is it, you know, inching back. Um, but at the same time, there are many parts of the world where it's slower. Uh, movie theaters are still struggling. So, you know, to reopen. Um, even a, a James Bond movie is sort of underperforming expectations.
39:45So I wonder, in this climate, what metric do you guys use to decide, you know, to evaluate whether you're, you know, to evaluate success? Like, Jessica, your movie's been in theaters.
39:57Is it a box office figure? Is it reviews? Like, how do you evaluate if this thing's been what you wanted it to be?
40:05Well, it's interesting when you say, like, James Bond is underperforming in a pandemic. Like, it's never been anything we've ever seen in our lifetime.
40:15So, you know, I, I love going back to the movie theaters. It's something I feel safe doing it, but a lot of people are nervous too. So for me, I'm not, I wouldn't say James Bond is underperforming.
40:28I'm like, thank goodness. There's like, you know, um, product that these theater owners can show and then everyone can make their choice if they feel safe or not.
40:37But we're, it's like baby steps until we get back to normal. We're really inside.
40:42I don't even think we understand how traumatic the past two years have been for everyone.
40:47Absolutely. A hundred percent everything you said, but I wonder, you know, is there, if, if the normal metrics that we use, rotten tomatoes, box office,
40:57Mojo, whatever these things are, if they're not, um, necessarily on the table in the same way, how do you, what, is there something just a feeling that, that you, uh, is it just the experience?
41:09Like what define, define success for, for you in this, in this time?
41:13I guess for me, the only way I can define.
41:15Your grandparents are alive?
41:16Yeah.
41:17I don't know. It's like hard to be like, you know, I don't know.
41:20It's like, how do you define success?
41:22Yeah.
41:23Like, you know, it's a weird time. We have kids, like it's weird still.
41:28And I, I don't think we can really like look at each product and say, okay, the, all of these factors equals this is now a success.
41:38And I, and I like to offer up that in this industry, if that's what you're focused on, you're going to have a lot of difficulty in the industry.
41:45You have to live for, and you have to work for the experience of working.
41:50And it's got to be something that fulfills you and offers you something and helps you grow as a human being.
41:57And if you're kind of like, well, I need to check this box and this box and this box of how it performs.
42:03It's really, it's all you're going to be is unhappy.
42:06I mean, like when, when is it completely congruent that your experience and how people consume it are lined up?
42:13Yeah.
42:14Like it's pretty rare.
42:15And it's thrilling when it is, it's really nice when you do a movie and you're like, I think that's a good movie and I had a good time making it and people seem to like it.
42:21Like that is a miracle.
42:23They actually don't think that's like alphabetically.
42:25But the reality is what's ever happened.
42:27But some movies also are like made before their time.
42:31Like 2001 Space Odyssey.
42:32Yeah.
42:33When it came out, it got, like there's someone in the New York Times said it was immensely boring.
42:38You know what I mean?
42:39It's a classic.
42:40So sometimes.
42:41Look at the Rotten Tomato percentage on your favorite movies.
42:43Yeah.
42:44Some of them are like, 10% you're like, that's a masterpiece.
42:46Like Death Reconcer, I love these movies.
42:47Definitely don't judge movies by Rotten Tomatoes.
42:50That is a measure.
42:52I think that's definitely a measure of success for me, which is probably not a good thing.
42:56But I love the idea of being underappreciated in your time.
42:59Yes.
43:00It's so fun.
43:01I think it's fantastic.
43:02Because you're like, I'm provocative.
43:03I'm creating a conversation.
43:04Oh, I'm polarizing.
43:05Amazing.
43:06Yes.
43:07I think it's totally interesting.
43:09People talk about it.
43:10I don't know.
43:11I don't know.
43:12I don't know.
43:13I don't know.
43:14I don't know.
43:15I don't know.
43:16I don't know.
43:17I don't know.
43:18I don't know.
43:19I don't care.
43:20I did my job.
43:21I got to do what I wanted to do.
43:23It was my dream to do this.
43:24Or I got to do what I love.
43:26That's winning.
43:28And that's it for me.
43:30The rest, you asked me to play this role.
43:32I wanted to do it.
43:33I did it.
43:34Success.
43:35So in our home stretch here, gonna do just something fun.
43:39First thing that comes to your mind, which living actor who you've not worked with do you most want to work with?
43:44That's a good one.
43:45I actually, I really have such a girl crush on Penelope Cruz.
43:48That's great.
43:49She's awesome.
43:50Yeah, put this out there.
43:51You never know.
43:52This could lead to something.
43:53Jennifer?
43:54I'm gonna just say things though.
43:55Watch this so you say it quick.
43:56Okay.
43:57All right.
43:58Good, good, good.
43:59Amelia?
44:00Viola Davis.
44:01Awesome.
44:02That's a good one.
44:03Tessa?
44:04Tilda Swinton.
44:05Tilda Swinton.
44:06Kirsten?
44:07Do you think that we're in one scene together?
44:08Mm-mm.
44:09Well, you're gonna make me cry.
44:10I know.
44:11No, but I'm like, look, we're friends and I love Kirsten, but I also like love Kirsten.
44:16She's fucking incredible.
44:18Yeah.
44:19I'm gonna say like Kate, someone like Kate Blanchett.
44:21That would be great.
44:22If you couldn't play your part, but you had to play one of the other ladies' parts on this table,
44:28whose would you have found it interesting to play?
44:31I think I could probably do Aretha.
44:33I think I could probably kill that one.
44:35Yeah.
44:36I think given the opportunity, I think we could have killed that.
44:40I think we could.
44:41And this is what we're stipulating.
44:43It's no offense to the person who played it.
44:46It's just who made it seem like a part you'd want to play.
44:48I mean, every project I would...
44:50But I mean, obviously, Spencer, you'd want to play.
44:53I mean, honestly, after watching, I'm like, well, I mean, I am British.
44:58You know what?
44:59I will say, any time I'm watching something, I always imagine if I had to do it.
45:03I don't know if you guys do that.
45:05You know, like, how would I approach that?
45:07I think we can't help to do that, but to do it creatively in some way.
45:11I really can't imagine myself playing any of these characters.
45:14Not really.
45:15I know we're having fun, but like, I just think, like, everyone is so phenomenal.
45:19So, our closing one, we'll bring it back to the beginning where, again, there's somebody
45:23listening who's thinking, I would like to be where these ladies are sitting one day.
45:28What's the best piece of advice you've received, most useful piece of advice you've received
45:34en route to this moment, Amelia?
45:36Oh, my gosh.
45:37I knew you were going to come to me first.
45:38That's why I looked down.
45:40Um, to never give up.
45:43You hear no so much more than you hear yes.
45:46So much more.
45:47I mean, maybe it's me, but I hear no a lot.
45:50And also to challenge yourself.
45:51If you read a script and it scares you, do it.
45:54Because it's the most rewarding thing of you when you finish and you conquer it.
46:00You have to stay creatively true to yourself, because that really is, you know, you're your
46:06own career.
46:07Like, it's up to you.
46:08The choices you make lead to other choices, lead to this, to that.
46:11I mean, so I think just really making sure that, you know, to say no is more powerful,
46:18I think, a lot of the times.
46:20Jennifer?
46:21Nothing is just.
46:22And also, if you keep at it, it has no choice but to give in and do it because you love it,
46:28and it will make room for you.
46:30Don't worry about the success, the accolades, the attention.
46:33We're all here because we simply love what we do.
46:37And I love to always remind everyone of that, you know.
46:40And then there's no set formula to success.
46:42It's not.
46:43It's your own idea of what that is.
46:46Mine would be to not be comfortable in your work.
46:51So, sometimes, you know, it's an industry that creates a lot of difficulty and a lot of rejection,
46:58and so we seek comfort.
47:01You know, we seek to feel like, okay, I feel safe or I'm safe in this part or I'm safe in this point.
47:07And I think that's kind of like not a great thing for curiosity and creativity.
47:14And I know with myself, the most uncomfortable I've ever been has grown me the most as a person.
47:25And it feels weird to say it as an artist, as an actor.
47:29You're an artist.
47:30Well, that's a weird thing to say.
47:31It sounds so like...
47:33Tessa.
47:34I would say something that really changed my perception was to understand that whatever nerves I felt was relative to how much I cared about the thing.
47:43When I could recontextualize it to that where I was like, oh, this is like the one thing that sets my body on fire in this way because I mean to do it.
47:54Like this is, for whatever it's worth, this is what I'm supposed to be doing.
47:59And I think to get out of my head and just focus on the people across from me, which is what our job asked us to do, I think was really paramount for me.
48:11So I would say that's a good thing for especially young actors to think about and remember.
48:17Krista?
48:18I definitely lean towards what feels scary and vibratey and uncomfortable.
48:24But at the same time, when I was younger, I figured that it was like the only way because it is indicative of passion.
48:34And it is, there's like the, you know, when something becomes physical and almost debilitatingly so, something's going on that is significant and worthwhile.
48:44But also, sometimes it feels good to actually, with ease, approach something in a more thoughtful way.
48:52And like as I am getting older, maybe my advice when I was younger would have been like, lean into that fear. Use it. That's what it is. Like just, you know, that's like, you know, I would have said what you said.
49:01But I'm better when I'm more comfortable.
49:04I'm totally with you.
49:05Yeah.
49:06I'm so much better when I'm not working from any sense of fear.
49:09You know, I work with my dreams. I work with so many different things that make me feel like, I know this character better than the director.
49:15But at a certain point, it's like, it's on, it's, it should be yours, you know?
49:19Yeah.
49:20And I think maybe just very basically, like, learn your lines.
49:23I used to be like, I used to just be like, I don't know, maybe if I don't know it, it'll feel like more mine.
49:28Like, I just thought of it myself.
49:30It'll feel more like of the moment if you don't know them that well, right?
49:33Yeah, exactly.
49:34Like, it'll be more impulsive.
49:35It's like, no.
49:36That worked for some people though, I think.
49:38Yeah, it used to work for me.
49:39I don't know.
49:40I think now, like, I think the fear of failure, I used to cover up with like, I mean, who knows?
49:48It's just live wire, lightning in a bottle moment.
49:51Who knows what it was?
49:52It's like, no, try.
49:54Try hard.
49:55Take credit for it.
49:56Be there.
49:57Learn.
49:58Process.
49:59You have to like chew on and lean into and it's not a magic trick.
50:03It is a process and it's such a fun one.
50:06And like, as I'm getting older, I'm like leaning more into, I'm becoming more of a
50:10thespian every day.
50:12Yeah.
50:13So that.
50:14And by the way, that's not advice.
50:15It's just kind of a way.
50:16It's just spewing off all of that.
50:18Right.
50:19That's great.
50:20Kristen, Tessa, Jessica, Jennifer, Kirsten, Amelia.
50:22Thank you so much.
50:23Congratulations on beautiful work and really appreciate you guys taking the time to do
50:28this.
50:30Thanks for having us.
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