00:00All right, joining me now is Mr. Vivek Tanka, Rajya Sabha MP, Congress leader and senior advocate.
00:06Mr. Tanka, there are, you know, two issues here.
00:08One, of course, something that you tweeted out yourself, posting on social media platform X,
00:13where you seem to suggest that the opposition leaders like LOP, Lok Sabha, Mr. Rahul Gandhi,
00:19and the leader of opposition in the Rajya Sabha, Mr. Karge, were insulted primarily by the way in which they were seated.
00:27The second thing, Mr. Tanka, which is being debated extensively, is once again certain members of your own party,
00:34you've had Mr. Rahul Gandhi tweeting out, you've had Ms. Priyanka Gandhi tweeting out,
00:38making the constitution as the core of trying to build yet and mount another attack on the BJP and the government.
00:48Let me talk of the first point first.
00:52Yes, I did tweet and it was a very instantaneous tweet.
00:56I had gone for an international law conference to Goa.
01:01When I was about to board the flight, I saw that picture.
01:06And I just instinctively tweeted and I said, it looked very sad to me.
01:14I mean, you know, the constitution feels humiliated.
01:18People feel humiliated if you don't treat your institutions well.
01:21It's not a question of Mr. Rahul Gandhi or Mr. Karge.
01:24I would have said so even if it was Mr. Jaitley and Madam Swaraj.
01:29You know, every constitutional person holding constitutionally responsible position must be treated with dignity and respect.
01:38If you don't do it, you're insulting your own country's constitution and parliament.
01:43I felt bad, so I tweeted.
01:45And I, frankly speaking, I also wrote that I don't expect anything better from this government.
01:49They have done this in the past.
01:51They are doing it again.
01:52So, that's all I could say and that's all I said also.
01:56Secondly, on the other side, yes, it's Republic Day.
02:01On this day, the constitution was dedicated to the country.
02:04This constitution has served well.
02:06You know, it's 77 years.
02:08We have a robust Supreme Court.
02:11We have a robust, we have robust laws.
02:13We still can claim that while most other countries have seen other turmoils, we have been able to resolve all our turmoils constitutionally.
02:25You know, even if you remember, there was emergency for which our party was used to be blamed.
02:32And you can imagine that my father sitting as a judge in 1975 with Justice A.P. Sane, were the judges who gave that famous judgment, Shipkaan Shukla versus ADM Jabalpur.
02:45And look at this Congress party.
02:47It never went against me in my party.
02:50In fact, they never treated me as if somebody who's given a judgment against the government.
02:55I come from that family.
02:57So, this, you know, you have to have liberal values.
02:59You have to have liberal ethos.
03:02You must understand that Article 14, 19, 21, 22 are the heart and soul of the constitution.
03:09If people like Sonam Manchuk, who actually represent the soul of the glaciers, climate change, if they are under NSA, what are you insulting?
03:20You're insulting Article 22 and Article 21.
03:23You ask anybody in India whether what I'm saying is incorrect.
03:26I'm today speaking as an Indian, not as a Congress MP.
03:31As a senior lawyer wedded to the constitution and the law.
03:34We want a government of constitutionalism.
03:38We want a government which respects rule of law.
03:41And we want a government which respects institutions and personalities.
03:45Mr. Tanka, let me break up these two questions that I'm going to ask you.
03:49Number one, so, your grouse, you know, not a complaint, but of the leader of opposition of both houses been not given an adequate place to sit in terms of they were in the third or the fourth row.
04:01Is your personal grouse?
04:02It's not your party grouse.
04:03It's not that you have Mr. Khadge or Mr. Rahul Gandhi who've confirmed.
04:07You feel this personally and you just aired your thought.
04:09Is that where it ends?
04:10Yeah, absolutely.
04:12If Mr. Advani and Mr. Bajpai had been put there also, I would have said the same thing, sitting in the Congress party.
04:19It's not about personalities.
04:21It's about respect to the institution.
04:23So, I feel that dignity of our institutions and dignity of individuals who head the institution has to be maintained, whether it be the Prime Minister or the LOP.
04:33Let me ask you the other question where it comes down, you know, the constitution has been much debated ever since 24, 24, where it became one of your key political planks.
04:46And it worked for you then, that entire Samvidan Khatre mein hai, the constitution is in danger.
04:51It really worked with, you know, for you on ground.
04:53But ever since there, you know, while we've had the Congress stick to the same, at least, you know, the agenda or the narrative of the constitution is in danger.
05:05Electorally, it hasn't quite caught on.
05:07Do you think it's lost its relevance where electorally picking up the constitution is concerned?
05:12Electorally, it did resonate in the general elections.
05:20Yes.
05:20For the parliament.
05:22Sometimes these issues don't resonate in state elections.
05:26State has their own local issues, state issues.
05:30So, you can't compare state elections with national elections.
05:34Whenever there are national elections, these things will resonate.
05:38You will see again in 29, when we have national elections, constitution will be a major plank once again.
05:45And why?
05:46Because there's constant impression of institutional devaluation.
05:52We see, and this is what we feel, that, you know, if you want to protect the Indian constitution,
05:57you have to have a truly independent judiciary.
06:00You have to have a truly independent election commission.
06:04You have to have a truly independent press and media.
06:06It's not about Congress and BJP, again, I'm saying.
06:10It's about democracy in this country.
06:12You can't have a democracy when people perceive.
06:16As I said, I may not be completely correct.
06:19And there may be another point of view.
06:21It may be a debatable issue.
06:23But the fact is, there is an impression that our institutions today are feeling compromised.
06:29That impression will stay put till the next general election in 29.
06:34You wait and see.
06:35Well, you know, we know when the elections come in, but at least state elections, it's not working.
06:39But let me ask you one final question, Mr. Tanka, before we let you go.
06:43Who is the true guardian of the constitution?
06:46Is now a real debate where politics is concerned?
06:50We've had the prime minister who've taken the floor of the parliament.
06:53You know, you are a parliamentarian multiple times and espoused that it is BJP and his government that are the true advocates and the custodians of the constitution, rather than the Congress that pretends to be the guardian of the constitution, which it continues to disrespect.
07:11Preeti ji, again, you're asking a question to somebody who is part of the opposition.
07:19I mean, I'm a Congress MP, and I've seen a lawyer who is always sparsing the cause of the denied and the deprived.
07:30Now, let me tell you that we feel we are the guardians.
07:33The ruling party feels they're the guardians.
07:36True.
07:36It's the people of India who decide who are the true guardians.
07:40I remember when there was emergency, nobody could have believed that Indra ji would lose an election.
07:48And people of India voted at that time, if you remember.
07:51But within two years or three years, they returned her back with a resounding victory.
07:57Why?
07:58Because, as I said, opinions also change with time.
08:03And nobody can remain a permanent guardian of the constitution as we walk on with our democracy.
08:12Sometimes in life and in the history of the country, the opposition at that time looked more of a guardian.
08:20Today, we are the opposition.
08:21So, we are the guardians of democracy because the ruling party has a stake in what it is doing.
08:28They have their agenda.
08:30That agenda may not be purely in conformity with the constitutional ethos of what the founding fathers must have thought.
08:38So, we feel that the ruling party is challenging many provisions of the constitution which, according to us, do not conform to the spirit with which the constitution was framed.
08:53Fair point, Mr. Tankhan.
08:54You know, you are right.
08:55It is for the people to decide.
08:57And I would reckon 2029, like you said, the general elections will lay proof to that.
09:02Thank you for taking the time out and joining us this evening.
09:05Appreciate it, sir.
09:05Thank you so much.
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