- 6 months ago
This episode of To The Point explores the controversy surrounding the Special Intensive Revision (SIR) of electoral rolls in Bihar, which has sparked protests outside Parliament and disrupted Lok Sabha proceedings for four consecutive days.
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00:00Hello and welcome, you're watching To The Point. I'm Preeti Chaudhary, the biggest news of the day.
00:05In the backdrop of the special intensive role revision which is taking place in the state of Bihar,
00:10you've had the opposition which is now raising the call of boycott, boycotting election.
00:16Well, the narrative played out from the Bihar Assembly all the way to the Parliament in New Delhi.
00:21All of this in the backdrop, viewers, of 28th of July when the top court of the country will hear the matter again.
00:30It's a controversy that's being binned off quite literally.
00:56Opposition parties led by Congress leaders Rahul Gandhi and Priyanka Gandhi
01:00protested outside Parliament on Friday over the revision of voters list in Bihar.
01:09Congress MP and leader of opposition in the Lok Sabha Rahul Gandhi along with his sister and other India Bloc MPs
01:15symbolically tore up the SIR form and threw it into a dustbin inside the Parliament complex.
01:21Right behind me you can see the visuals of Rahul Gandhi, Priyanka Gandhi, Ram Gopaliyadav and various other leaders of India Bloc who are protesting on the issue of SIR.
01:33They are raising the slogans like SIR, واپس لو, واپس لو.
01:37So this is the issue which the India Bloc has been raised.
01:41They should respond to the allocations.
02:10They should provide us with what we are asking for.
02:12Why are they not providing voters lists?
02:15It should be a transparent, it's a democracy.
02:17All political parties should have access to that information.
02:21So why is it not being provided?
02:22This followed a ruckus in Lok Sabha by opposition members for the fourth day in a row over alleged irregularities in the Bihar voter rolls.
02:52Opposition MPs stormed the well of the House, raised slogans and demanded an immediate discussion on the issue, forcing the Speaker to adjourn.
03:01In a bid to restore order and ensure smooth functioning of the House, Lok Sabha Speaker Om Billah even called an all-party meeting.
03:23According to sources, a consensus was reached during the meeting that the proceedings of the lower house will run smoothly and as per schedule from Monday onwards.
03:36But for today, there was no immediate breakthrough that could be achieved inside the House.
03:41Union Law Minister Arjun Rahm Meghwal's speech was disrupted by massive sloganeering by the opposition.
03:47With no let-up in the ruckus, both Houses of Parliament will now resume business on Monday when the monsoon session resumes.
04:06Union Parliamentary Affairs Minister Reginald
04:36Juju appealed to the opposition to not create ruckus and ensure a smooth functioning of the House.
04:41Juju appealed to the opposition to not create ruckus and ensure a smooth functioning of the House.
04:43Meanwhile, protests also rocked the BR Assembly in Patna with opposition leaders protesting outside the Assembly.
05:05We are a report, India Today.
05:35The role revision exercise that is taking place, what do you reckon could be the ramifications of it politically?
05:42So, I do think that what should have been an exercise in, you know, as one of the countdown to the conduct of free and fair polls in Bihar, which are due in a couple of months from now, just ahead of the festive season.
06:00I do think there's a lot of discussion.
06:01I do think there's a lot of noise around this and I wouldn't call it politicking at this point of time.
06:07It's an issue of public anxiety because it's become a train where all must change.
06:15Nobody quite understands as to what is the fate of the paper they've given.
06:19I remember in poorer states such as Bihar, the state that I belong to, having a voter ID card by itself is considered a matter of comfort, a matter of belonging and where, you know, it's a land of dispossession.
06:35Land holdings are very small, even the so-called rich, even people like me actually don't own much land.
06:43So, for us, the sense of belonging is that we have a house.
06:46Now, I think the one thing that I sense amongst the people is the sense of discomfort, the unease as to what is going to be our fate, what is being asked of us.
06:57So, I see, forget the politicking, I see almost every political party at the grassroot level in villages coming around to people and saying,
07:07Now, what is the process that has to be gone into?
07:13Is the time adequate?
07:14Is this paper adequate?
07:15Why am I being asked to do all this?
07:18So, I think forget the political parties.
07:21The election commission does have a responsibility to political parties.
07:24But the election commission needs to speak to the people of Bihar and needs to make them understand what is the process they're going through.
07:32You cannot shirk this off by saying, oh, he's doing politicking.
07:35What will political parties do except politicking?
07:38And let me tell you...
07:39No, fair point.
07:40Yeah.
07:40No, fair point, Manisha Jeeb.
07:42The fact is, number one, the election commission, high time that the EC came out, addressed a press conference, allaying fairs.
07:48Because, you know, for more than anyone, the voters there, because we have had ground reporters over the course of the last two weeks constantly picking up on what you speak of, which is voter anxiety.
07:58The politics around it, understandable right now.
08:01How it will impact the polls is a different question.
08:05But Sanjay Kumar, and I want to bring Amita Abdiwari into this conversation first, about 61 lakh voters are at risk of disenfranchisement.
08:13And that in itself, Sanjay Kumar, if you look at the larger number in terms of the entire electorate of the state of Bihar, is huge.
08:21So, certainly, you have already cited the number.
08:24Roughly, there is an estimate that we have 7.5 or 7.4 crores voters.
08:28And if you look at, out of that, 60, names of 60 lakh voters are going to be stuck.
08:34So, this is a sizable number.
08:36And all the calculations suggest, if you divide it by the number of constituencies, assembly constituencies, it amounts to roughly 22,000, 23,000 voters per assembly constituency.
08:47In a tight contest like what we had in 2020 assembly election, where the, you know, the defeat and the victory margin for the entire state was few thousand votes.
08:56So, this can be very, very decisive.
08:59You know, starting, getting the name of 61,000, 61 lakh voters stuck is going to be very crucial when the election takes place in a couple of months' time.
09:11Amita Abdiwari, would you want to weigh in on this?
09:14Because, you know, with what we started off, the politics around it, noises now for the first time coming in from the Ghatbandhan, suggesting that if this continues, there's going to be a boycott of polls.
09:23I want to just tell our viewers, all of this is taking place in the backdrop of the top court hearing the matter.
09:30The entire SIR, the Special Intensive Role Revision in Bihar, is being challenged by multiple agencies, along with political parties, in the top court of the country.
09:39So, that verdict still awaited.
09:41But, Amita Abdiwari, would you want to weigh in on this?
09:44No, essentially, it has been a controversial issue.
09:50And I think that the politics has moved beyond now the identity documents required and whether we need Aadhaar or not.
09:58The politics has now boiled down to the number of deletions.
10:02However, two, three things are very pertinent here is that out of the 61 lakh people who have been deleted or whose names are proposed to be deleted, 18 have dead, according to the Election Commission, and 28 lakhs have moved permanently out of the state.
10:18So, unless the opposition proves or has this inkling that a majority portion or significant number of people out of this 46 lakh people have not died or are alive and or have not moved out of the state,
10:38I think that it's a very normal deletion, correct, because actually the number of people, or rather, the number of people who die and people who are normally not resident are excluded from the voter list in any summary revision.
10:53The argument could be that why would you need a summary, sorry, a Special Intensive Revision if you just had to remove people who have died and people who have moved out.
11:02Which was already done in January this year.
11:04Yeah, ideally this should have been removed in the summary revision itself.
11:08So, were these people alive, this 18 lakh, when they voted in 2024, or have these people died in this last, let's say, one year?
11:17Were these people alive in 2020?
11:18But Amitabh ji, not just one year, because a summary revision took place in January 2025, it concluded then, so we are actually talking about just a couple of months from then.
11:27Correct.
11:27So, it can be an error that they were dead, but perhaps still remained on the rolls.
11:32So, if they remained on the rolls, did they vote, etc.
11:35So, it's a very complex exercise now.
11:37Now, the Election Commission, of course, needs to put a list out of who are the people who are going to be excluded or proposed to be excluded and needs to transparently share it with all the political parties.
11:49That if they have issues or if they can bring in people who have been illegitimately removed from the list, they can be brought back to the list.
11:58Because the number C is huge.
12:00However, if you trickle it down to per booth, so per seat is around 22,000 to 23,000, which means per booth is 70,000, 75 people who are likely to be excluded.
12:12Correct.
12:12And with the ground presence of RJD.
12:13But that is, you know, but that is, Amitabh ji, if you are unilaterally addressing it booth by booth, but ultimately that's not what's happening on ground.
12:22Empirical evidence right now suggests by our reporters that there are certain areas where there is higher scale of disenfranchisement than others.
12:30That's what I'm saying.
12:33This list has to be made public.
12:35Correct.
12:35Then we'll come to know out of which assembly segment these voters are, which region these voters are, which caste group these voters are.
12:43And then the, not only the people, but also the political parties need to have time to challenge this.
12:51Now, that's the bigger question, whether they have the time or not, because now we have a window of less than three months.
12:56And that is what the Supreme Court is likely to decide upon on July 28th.
13:02But what I'm trying to say is that this 46 lakh people, if they have moved out on and or are dead, then anyways, whether they remained on the electoral roll or not, would not have made any difference on the turnout if these exclusions are genuine.
13:18Ratan Sharda Ji, the fact is, there can be a Mahagat Bandhan versus the incumbent, but the collateral clearly, as even Manisha Ji pointed out, are the voters of Bihar.
13:28And it's acute voter anxiety right now where most, you know, Bihar voters are concerned.
13:34The fact, Ratan Sharda Ji, the credibility of the EC is on the line.
13:37The credibility of the EC of number of surveys that have been conducted has only been falling.
13:42The opposition constantly attacking the EC.
13:44The government and the BJP, instead of defending the EC, because EC is clearly a constitutional unit functioning on its own,
13:53defending the EC should ask for the EC to come out with a press conference, allay all fears.
13:57Because, you know, if for the first time source-based information from the EC continues to trickle down,
14:02then there's cause for concern where the credibility of the institution comes into being.
14:06When you keep on attacking the constitutional authorities like EC over years, naturally there will be some fallout.
14:15You remember the EVM cry where after every election there is talk about EVM being corrupted, etc.
14:21And you just let it pass.
14:23Now, ECI being a typical bureaucratic party has not been good at communication.
14:27That has been the failure of the government that this has not been explained properly.
14:30Now, coming to the main issue, crux of the matter is the time.
14:35Anybody sitting here, is he making a case that there should be no electoral revision?
14:39Are we saying that Aadhaar card, which has got oversaturation of more than 20% in many districts, should not be questioned?
14:45Are you saying that anybody who comes to India can become a voter?
14:49And that is why we are opposing?
14:50The reason for opposing, as SIR, opposition had said that we are worried about the timing…
14:54If you allow me a rebuttal, I want to ask you this oversaturation of Aadhaar that we speak so openly of, where has this data been extrapolated?
15:03Because the census hasn't taken place.
15:05How do we know there is an oversaturation of Aadhaar in certain areas like Simanchar?
15:10On what basis is this number?
15:12Just like here, certain numbers.
15:15There are numbers floating on the social media and the newspapers.
15:18But sir, we can't take social media as the benchmark of credible numbers, sir.
15:23No, there are news reports also.
15:26Sir, are we going to question everything?
15:27Are we going to question whether 50 lakh over numbers are there or not?
15:31It is clearly there is oversaturation of Aadhaar.
15:32Sir, I would reckon journalistic inquisition should demand that.
15:35And I would think you would also demand it.
15:37You should demand.
15:37I would demand.
15:38You also demand.
15:40Rather than questioning me, question the people or the news which says there is oversaturation.
15:44Let somebody respond saying there is nothing.
15:46Why don't you investigate?
15:48That is the job of the news channels.
15:49So my question is whether the opposition is opposing it because there is less time or they
15:54don't want to detect people who are not fit to be citizens of this country and cannot vote.
15:58That is the question which is being rallied around.
16:00That is the question you are saying why disemprachers people?
16:03If the people are not even, were not even right voters, then why should you question it?
16:08Which nation has such an open door policy that anybody can come and become voter?
16:13My question is revision could have been started earlier.
16:15My question is it should be there all over the country.
16:18Why not?
16:18And there should be a better way of doing it rather than trying to push it down in such
16:22a short time and not responding to questions.
16:26Fair point, Sam.
16:26I want to bring in Ashutosh into this conversation.
16:28I just, you know, because there is a contentious point because everyone who is quoting the SIR
16:34which is taking place in Bihar as a great exercise quotes the example of oversaturation
16:39of Aadhar in certain regions like Simanchal.
16:41The basic question of that is we haven't had a census where has that oversaturation, 50%,
16:4780% saturation, 120% saturation data has come from is a question one needs to ask.
16:53But Ashutoshji, there is a credible point that even Ratan Sharjadji has made.
16:58There is voter anxiety clearly.
17:00But there are also lots of voters in various pockets of Bihar that are welcoming an exercise
17:05what they thought was a long time in the coming.
17:08So, see, Preeti, in this entire exercise we are missing words out of the trees.
17:13The first, today the matter has moved beyond SIR.
17:16Today the matter has moved beyond election commission.
17:19Today the matter has moved beyond the electoral process.
17:22We have to understand this.
17:24The job of the election commission is not only to conduct election, but it is seen to be
17:28conducted in free, fair and independent manner, in a transparent manner.
17:32There are the three stakeholders, serious stakeholders in the election.
17:36One is opposition, another is a government, and third is people.
17:42And if out of the three, if the one has a problem, a serious problem with this, then election commission
17:49has no other business than to address those concerns.
17:53Today the entire opposition is on its feet.
17:56And if entire opposition is on its feet, and the Tejasvi Yadav, the principal opposition
18:02party in Bihar, is saying that they are thinking in terms of boycotting the election, then the
18:08credibility of the whole election, whole process goes for a toss.
18:13Even if you conduct an election, nobody is going to believe this.
18:17So the fact of the matter is that the deep distrust is emerging about the electoral process, and
18:25that will damage Indian democracy in the long term.
18:28I fail to understand how your bureaucratic bureaucrats sitting in the election commission is not
18:35only tarnishing the image of the election process, but they are also contributing in tarnishing
18:40the image of the whole Indian democracy globally.
18:45Now the question is asked, opposition is a serious question, that question can be wrong.
18:50I completely agree with that, can be totally wrong.
18:53But if they have questions, if they have doubts, if they have problems with that, then that
18:58needs to be addressed, and this whole process has to be scrapped.
19:01This bulldozing thing, the new phenomenon which has emerged in Indian democracy in the last
19:06few years, that I'll bulldoze everything, come what may, we are bulldozing at the cost of
19:11the democracy.
19:12So, forget about SIR, forget about election process.
19:15This democracy cannot be bulldozed like this, and opposition has to be taken in confidence.
19:20Ashutosh, before I go back to Manisha Prem, I want to ask you one question, because 28th
19:24is when the top court of the country is hearing the matter, multiple challenges to the SIR taking
19:28place in Bihar.
19:30The question is, whether or not the court delinks the process from the Bihar election, because
19:35there is a possibility, that's an option that the court could exercise, that allow the process
19:39to happen, but delink it from the Bihar election.
19:43Do you reckon the polarization, the job technically is done in terms of polarizing the state of
19:49Bihar?
19:50See, as I said, polarization in my opinion is not an issue at all.
19:59Please understand this.
20:01CSDS has done survey, and the CSDS data categorically state the credibility of election commission
20:07is going down with every election.
20:08If the credibility of election commission is going down with every election, people will
20:13ask questioning.
20:14People will ask questions.
20:15Whether the election conduct and the political party who emerges as the victorious, whether
20:20they are victorious with transparent means, with the fair means, our election has been
20:26manipulated.
20:27So you're saying larger questions are going to be raised, polarization is going to be eclipsed
20:31in all of this.
20:31Larger questions on the functionality of our democracy are going to be raised.
20:36Manisha Priyam, to get you into this conversation, Ratanji, I'll come back to you as well.
20:40I know you want to make a point.
20:42But Manisha Ji, the fact is, do you, you know, the whole talk of we will boycott the
20:49elections, we had heard it in the beginning, you know, small murmurs of that in the beginning
20:53of 2024 Lok Sabha elections as well, if you remember.
20:56And that, those times, these issues were raised on the conduct, again, of the EC.
21:01Once again, you have threats being raised that we will boycott the election.
21:05Do you think these are just empty threats or these political parties could actually follow
21:09up on them?
21:10So, once again, I will come back to the basics of what I've said, which is fundamentally
21:14different from the approach taken by esteemed panellist Amitabh Tiwari ji.
21:20This is not about numbers.
21:22Maybe so many people are dead.
21:23Maybe so many people have permanently shifted.
21:25But please realize that a large number of people of Bihar who are citizens of the state and
21:33who have been voting since time immemorial have peacefully assisted the process.
21:40And that is why today the Election Commission states it's a success because people have gone
21:44through the process.
21:45And I would ask the people who have gone through the process, they have no idea of what the
21:52beginning, end or rationale of the process is.
21:57Whether they go and film the form, does the BLO come?
22:01Please ask people if the BLO has come to their doorsteps.
22:04Where are the forms to be found?
22:06What is to be attached to the forms?
22:07Now, I will consider my exercise to be legitimate if I have been through these steps.
22:13Why is there a divide between the state and the people?
22:17There used to be a system where the BLOs used to come door to door and these things used to
22:20be asked.
22:21Now, we have spoken to many BLOs who have said that these are the, this is the stack.
22:25Very openly, they have said, these are the people who are dead.
22:28Sure, agreed.
22:30But the fact is, how do you know?
22:33Hum jayenge darwaje darwaje.
22:34Now, I already hear that people have the numbers of so many are deceased, so many.
22:39And the BLO is still saying that this is my stack.
22:42I will go and find out if these people are dead.
22:44I have gathered from secondary sources.
22:46So, for me, the understanding is not clear as to who has matched unit level data with what.
22:53Whether the people who have gone through the process are satisfied with this or not.
22:58Rather than third party, is the election commission wanting to do Jan Sunwais or not?
23:04Anything said in Hindi is not political.
23:07Jan Sunwais is not a political term.
23:09Panchayat is not a political term.
23:11Does the election commissioner or their officers want to talk to local mukhyas or not?
23:16Who are wearing clothes and wearing a shirt, who are by definition are not political.
23:22People are not people.
23:23People are not political.
23:24Politics is not a bad thing.
23:25No matter what to do.
23:26We are not a bad thing.
23:27We are not a bad thing.
23:29Talk to people.
23:30Right.
23:31Talk to people.
23:32Talk to people.
23:33Why do we understand?
23:34We will not understand.
23:35We will not understand.
23:36We are 50 people or 60 people or 70 people.
23:38We do not understand.
23:39Right.
23:40I want to be final.
23:41I want to conclude by saying that this of election had come by a very controversial election commissioner called TN session.
23:50For the first time, many Dabang's who used to think they will loot elections and one political leader said, hey, the session will take the session.
23:59And I think the TN session moment became the dividing line.
24:03And for deepening of democracy in Bihar, the Garib Gurbhas went ahead and voted.
24:09That's the Garib Gurbha on whom you want to construct the democracy.
24:12Just go back and construct it bit by bit.
24:15Don't tell us whether we are in the deceased or permanently migrated.
24:18Fair point.
24:19And I want to take final comments and I want to go to Sanjay ji first.
24:21Sanjay ji, the sheer fact, you know, something that Ashutosh also touched upon.
24:25Ultimately, there will be a question on the credibility of the EC.
24:29Till now, there's been stone cold silence other than source based information, which once again is very new coming in from the EC.
24:35It's never quite happened earlier.
24:37But we touched on the 61 lakh figure.
24:40Amitab ji also said that there are a lot of those are dead.
24:43You know, there are many displaced, missing.
24:45Maybe they're dead.
24:46But the fact, Sanjay ji is also, if you look at the last elections and you spoke of it in your earlier submission, seats were won and lost by a matter of hundreds and thousands.
24:57And a number like this could practically turn this election.
25:00You know, see, there are larger questions which other panelists are raising, and I agree with all those larger points.
25:11Manisha is talking about, you know, the unease, the unease among the people.
25:14Imagine a day when people go out to vote on the election day, and when a very large number of people don't find their names on the electoral roll.
25:21What's going to happen? It's going to be a very public unrest.
25:24They will, you know, like, there will be a lot of noise about that.
25:28So there are a large number of issues besides beyond just about victory and losses.
25:34But the question which you have raised is right.
25:36It was a tight election in 2025, 2020 assembly election.
25:41And it also seems, going by the current mood of the people of Bihar, it is heading for a tight election.
25:48And if it is a tight election, and we have been hearing about allegations about Maharashtra, Haryana, Delhi, much about Maharashtra, what has happened between, you know, 20, the Lok Sabha elections and assembly elections.
26:00So this is the kind of situation which is emerging in Bihar as well, which might emerge in Bihar as well, because a large number of constituencies were decided, the victory and defeat were decided by a few thousand votes.
26:13Almost 40, 50 constituencies with less than, you know, 5000 votes.
26:18And if it is affecting 23,000, 24,000 votes each assembly constituency, this is going to have an impact on the electoral outcome also.
26:28And I think this is being anticipated by the opposition parties.
26:31And that's why they are making a noise.
26:33There are larger, larger issues.
26:35And I also agree with Sharda Ji.
26:37I am personally not against revision.
26:39It should be done because we know that the quality of electoral rolls are bad, but not the way it is being carried out in Bihar, not in such a hurry.
26:47It should have been done at a leisurely, like in very, very systematic.
26:51So personally, I'm not against this revision, but the way it is being carried forward, I'm against that.
26:57Fair point.
26:58I don't think anybody is really against the revision.
27:00Even the political parties that have spoken have made that very clear, that we are not against the revision.
27:03It's about the timing of it as well.
27:05Final submissions, Amitabh ji, to bring you in, because all of this is taking place against at least what is right now a vocal threat of election boycott by opposition parties.
27:14Yeah.
27:15So essentially we have discussed in detail the reservations around SIR, the Aadhaar, the eligibility of Aadhaar.
27:22And also we have discussed at length how there is a very lax process or a loose process while enrolling new voters.
27:29And now election commission is coming up with a very tighter process for verification.
27:34So that needs to be solved.
27:36And we have also discussed in detail earlier that this needs to be an election nationwide exercise and not only specific to Bihar.
27:43Having said that, I think when political parties or RJD specifically is talking about boycotting of elections, Rahul Gandhi or the opposition have been talking about cheating by ECI, fixing by ECI, allegations of mass manipulation, etc.
28:01So what happens is that when you go into a match, before the match you are alleging that the referee is biased.
28:08Correct.
28:09And still you are playing that match.
28:11That sort of dilutes your allegations.
28:14Correct.
28:15That neutralizes whatever you are, whatever serious allegations you are making.
28:19So I would say that if the opposition parties feel that the election commission is favoring the government,
28:28is trying to manipulate voter list, is fixing the elections, then they should not participate.
28:34Because by participating, they are diluting their own allegations.
28:38And this could have larger ramifications.
28:41Correct.
28:42Because election commission also needs to communicate well.
28:45Ratan Sharada, you also said.
28:47So it's all that.
28:49But we need to have a number.
28:50I think if, unless illegal immigrants, which was the objective of this SIR, are removed, and we don't have that number yet.
28:58Out of 62, we don't know how many illegal immigrants are there.
29:02Right.
29:03This could have been done in a normal summary revision as well.
29:05Fair point.
29:06And, you know, ultimately a lot lies with the top court of the country on 28.
29:10There is a possibility that the court could delink the exercise from the Bihar elections.
29:15Over to you, Ratan Sharada.
29:16Final comments.
29:17See, what I wanted to tell was that this data that I gave is coming from the New Indian Express,
29:22which is not a social media.
29:23It's a very responsible newspaper.
29:25So there is some content in that.
29:27Secondly, I go back to think, are opposition really worried about the SIR's urgency?
29:32Or are they worried about actually SIR being not fair?
29:35I doubt because the way they are going about it, despite Supreme Court ruling, tells me they are much more worried.
29:40Can this idea that elections are tight, we should not go for SIR?
29:44Should we carry on with this?
29:45Should we carry on with this?
29:46Should we carry on with this?
29:47Should we carry on with this?
29:48Should we carry on with this?
29:49These doubts are created by even people who are winning or losing.
29:54What about doubt for a sophologist to say that these are doubts and there are genuine
29:58doubts and there is discuss about the system.
30:00He said those were doubts which were put forth by the political parties.
30:03He was talking about that and CSDS has done a number of surveys.
30:06Should we carry on with this?
30:08Allow Sanjeeji to explain.
30:09Should we carry on with this?
30:10No, no, I'll come.
30:11Sanjeeji, you want to give an answer?
30:13I did not say that these are my doubts.
30:15I said these are the issues which have been discussed for the last few months.
30:19Fair point.
30:20I did not say that.
30:21I doubt.
30:22That is my problem.
30:23There's a distinction.
30:24We allow these gossips to go on despite answers by the, you know, election commission, by the
30:30courts that everything is fair, everything has been taken care of, all boxes have been
30:34matched, all have been ticked.
30:35Despite that, they will keep on saying and clear distrust among the people.
30:39But sir, even that matter is in court.
30:42That's the thing, right?
30:43So, those issues will be raised and I understand exactly where you come from, where you also
30:47made your point on where you got the data from.
30:49The intent wasn't questioning where you got the data from, sir.
30:52But the intent was there's so much misinformation today that is passed on as data.
30:56Basic question.
30:57If there is no, you know, a survey or a census that has been conducted right now, where is
31:02the extrapolation on Aadhar coming from?
31:04That's it.
31:05Make your point, sir.
31:06Finish.
31:07It's fine.
31:08What I have to say, I have said that we must have these revisions.
31:12We must have intense revisions and there can be a much better way of doing it, but we
31:16cannot say because there is a tight election, we should just avoid it.
31:19Right.
31:20That's not the answer.
31:21I have to say that this is a tight election.
31:22I said this might affect a tight election.
31:24I never said that this should be stopped.
31:26I write from the beginning.
31:27I said this must be done because the quality of electoral rolls are bad.
31:31No, sir.
31:32I am not raising question about you.
31:33I am saying this is a general talk.
31:34I am not raising question to you.
31:35Well, sir, you know, anyway.
31:36Okay.
31:37Final comments.
31:38Ashutosh ji, make your quick comments and then I will close the bulletin.
31:43See, about this Aadhar saturation, I think let's understand this.
31:47In 2011, when the census happened, the population was mapped something around 120 crores.
31:53In the last 14 years, this population has increased to 140 to 145 crores.
31:58So, obviously, there is a jump at 20 to 25% into the population numbers.
32:03Now, if you map this, if your yardstick is 2011 census and you will find a 20% rise.
32:13That's too normal.
32:14It's natural.
32:15It's not everywhere.
32:16So, I think wide.
32:17No, that's everywhere.
32:18If you go to every city, by that logic, in every city, you will get Aadhar numbers.
32:23In this report, it was 20%.
32:24All right.
32:25The fact is, Ashutosh ji, that's a very immature way of extrapolation, right?
32:30You will also admit.
32:31No, no, no.
32:32No, no, no.
32:33I'm only saying it, don't make it the propaganda pound.
32:36Fair point.
32:37That Aadhar saturation has been raised by 20%.
32:41Right.
32:42All right, I'm running out of that.
32:43Basically, exclude.
32:44See, now, what I want to make the point is, what is the purpose of this SIR?
32:48The purpose of SIR is to have clean electoral rolls.
32:52So, if your motive is pious, then the process should also be pious.
32:59Okay.
33:00But if you're only talking about that end result should be good, end result will be good if it's gone through the proper process.
33:07Okay.
33:08I'm going to end it on that.
33:09All right.
33:10I appreciate all of you, you know, for joining us.
33:12The issue is contentious.
33:13We did not have one political panelist deliberately.
33:16And yet, there was fair amount of argument and debate.
33:19We're going to let it rest.
33:20The matter is in court.
33:21Of course, in terms of politics, you can hear all the noise outside.
33:24All right, let's get you on the news.
33:38Microsoft has unveiled an AI system that diagnoses complex medical cases with 85% accuracy.
33:45AI in diagnostics is quickly becoming the cornerstone of health.
33:50Diagnostics are under prevention, even prediction.
33:53My colleague Sneha Murdani tells deeper.
34:05Artificial intelligence is rapidly becoming the cornerstone of healthcare.
34:12AI is changing the way we're diagnosing, predicting health and treating ourselves.
34:17American Multinational Technology Cooperation, Microsoft, has introduced a groundbreaking diagnostic tool.
34:29Microsoft claims it can sequentially investigate and solve medicine's most complex diagnostic challenges that even expert physicians struggle to answer.
34:39The new AI tool diagnoses complex medical cases with 85% accuracy.
34:48So how does it really work?
34:49This is Microsoft's AI diagnostic orchestrator, which works by creating a virtual panel of five AI agents, each of which acts as a doctor with distinct tools like choosing diagnostic tests and coming up with hypotheses.
35:03AI system was trained on 304 studies that describe some of the most complex cases solved by doctors and use a new technique called chain of debate, which it says gives a step-by-step account of how AI solves real-world health problems.
35:19For all this, the company used different large language models from OpenAI, Meta, Anthropic, Google, and DeepSeq.
35:28Microsoft has said the new AI medical tool correctly diagnosed about 85.5% of cases, which is actually way better compared to experienced human doctors, who were able to correctly diagnose only 20% of the cases.
35:44In India, scaling healthcare AI systems are not about just building the technology.
35:52It's also about ensuring that AI is intervening at the right point at multiple layers of the public health system.
36:01We are not worried about just the accuracy of the algorithms, but we are also ensuring that the right focus is going towards making AI available and accessible at the right time.
36:13More data and regulatory framework is weighted on the same.
36:21But world over, AI is being leveraged to assist medical professionals for better outcomes.
36:27Recently, India saw the launch of an AI-driven MRI machine.
36:33This is India's first AI-driven ultra-fast machine.
36:41Artificial intelligence in healthcare is really transforming the way scanning is done, the way reconstruction of those scans is done, and also the way we interpret.
36:55This new scanner, the XL3Tesla MRI is in a sense unique that it has very heavy-duty, artificial intelligence-based reconstruction algorithms inside.
37:15India is also perhaps gearing up for AI-backed face analysis diagnostics tool that can help detect disease all by taking a selfie.
37:27The selfie can give you a basic idea about your health care condition, about your mental stress levels, about your metabolic disease, whether you are predisposed or not to have or develop some sort of a heart condition.
37:45Yes, this is medical science in progress.
37:49This is called the magical mirror, and it's a mirror which is going to not just tell you or give you an idea about how fair you are, like in the fairy tales, but also give you an idea about how healthy you are.
38:01This is something that is being used in many countries world over.
38:08This is medical super-intelligence at its best.
38:13It could significantly help doctors ease their workload, but a lot of work needs to be done to get the required regulatory approvals for the same.
38:22In New Delhi, Sneha Mordani for India Today Television.
38:31Alright, now Prada has had itself at the receiving end yet again after the Kolapuri-Chappal controversy.
38:38Prada has now released a line of leather heels that share a closer resemblance with the Indian Juttis.
38:43Whispers of plagiarism against the Couture brand are only but growing louder.
38:53Seems like Prada is about to get haunted by another controversy.
38:57Prada's website gives you glimpses of its antiqued leather pumps that bear an uncanny resemblance to the good old leather Punjabi Jutti that has been worn for centuries across Punjab, Rajasthan, Gujarat and Maharashtra.
39:14Indian Jutis are born from age-old crafts.
39:19Leather is tanned, stitched, embroidered and sold.
39:22All within Rs. 150-1500.
39:25And now take a look at Prada's antiqued leather pumps.
39:29Elongated toe, rugged leather.
39:32Almost identical silhouette.
39:34This priced at Rs. 1450, which is Rs. 1.25 lakh.
39:41Prada has been drawing sharp criticism for allegedly lacking attribution to the original Jutti artisans.
39:47Last month, Prada's open toe sandals from their Spring-Summer 2026 menswear line looked far too familiar.
39:56Promoting backlash for mimicking Maharashtra's Kolapuri chapels.
40:00The brand later admitted to drawing inspiration.
40:03In a rare move, Prada sent a delegation to India to explore ethical collaborations.
40:09While the Italian brand's outreach to Indian officials and artisans is a step towards more ethical engagement,
40:16it also underscores how long overdue such collaborations are.
40:21As the lines between different cultures continue to blur in a globalised world,
40:26the demand to acknowledge and compensate source communities is becoming more urgent.
40:32Bureau Report, India Today.
40:34Now, over to my new podcast, UnPolitics, where we talk about a lot else than just plain politics.
40:43Our next guest is Gaurav Gogoi, the Assam Congress President.
40:48Here's a little excerpt from that conversation.
40:51Mr. Gogoi, you have a very rich political legacy.
40:55You're aware of that, right?
40:57Yes, of course. I'm very grateful for that also.
40:59I've learnt a lot of my values from my father and I've learnt a lot about the Congress Party.
41:06I learnt a lot about Assam from him.
41:10And I try to be a modern, younger version of him.
41:13What was the unpolitical view on your own party that you have learnt?
41:19And don't give me the role that it's a party which is built on an ideology, which is, you know, something.
41:25Like I said, the unpolitical view.
41:27Well, the unpolitical view was that if you could survive in Congress, you could survive anywhere.
41:32Why did you say that?
41:33Well, you know, like any, I think, because it's such a democratic party where people just express their opinions,
41:41feel free, they feel free to criticise, they feel free to have a different view.
41:45So often you would have different points of views, your own views would get challenged in an open space.
41:50You'll have to defend your own views and your beliefs as well.
41:54So I think some of our harshest critics of my position would be in my party saying that, you know,
42:01I don't agree with how you're working in Assam or I think this needs to change.
42:05But it all comes with, you know, as I said, from an intention that we want the party to be better.
42:11I mean, if you go back to the history, right from the earliest days of freedom struggle, you know,
42:16there were splits, there was, you know, different camps, different ideologies, different thoughts.
42:21So I think maybe that's why he said that if you could survive in Congress, you could survive anywhere.
42:26So not the interpretation that there are knives out within the party as well? No.
42:31Not at all. Nonetheless, politics is by profession quite ruthless and you need to have a thick skin.
42:39So you have to keep that in mind. But more important, as I said to begin with,
42:44is that while you understand the environment can be quite abrasive and confrontational,
42:49you have to realise what you're in there for, because nobody wants to be in a confrontational environment.
42:54But you're willing to survive that, endure that and face that only because you have a far larger goal on your mind.
43:01What I'm saying is you work very closely with Rahul Gandhi and I want to ask you this.
43:06A lot of leaders who have quit the Congress have come out and said that there's just no access.
43:13Do you need an appointment to speak to Mr. Gandhi? I'm asking you.
43:16Well, of course. Why won't you need an appointment?
43:19You can't pick up, like I pick up the phone and message my boss. You know, that's what I do.
43:24Yes, but if he's busy.
43:26For a message?
43:27I mean, if your boss is in a meeting, he's not going to answer you straight away, right?
43:32So you don't get straight away answers.
43:33And do you want to, can you convey everything that you want in a message?
43:37Don't you want to meet in person and therefore seek time?
43:40So I don't know what, what they're talking about.
43:42So are they saying that they've never met him?
43:45No, so if, if Mr. Gugoy wants an audience with Rahul Gandhi.
43:50You seek an appointment.
43:51How long?
43:52When is that appointment granted usually?
43:54More importantly, you know, these, some of those people who have made these stories,
44:00are the people who are the greatest access, who have spent some of the most amount of time.
44:04You're not telling me, do you get the access or not?
44:07So, I mean, let's start from where the story emanates from, right?
44:10So for them to say that, you know, this problem of access, I mean, come on.
44:14You know, you have all.
44:16Who are you talking about?
44:18Whoever you've thought about.
44:20No, no, you tell me, who am I thinking about?
44:22Whoever you've thought about.
44:23No, no, you tell me.
44:24Okay.
44:25Because it's not the person, it's the narrative, right?
44:27So the people who make these stories are some who have spent the greatest amount of time.
44:32So for them to say that it's because of this that I'm leaving, sorry, it just doesn't, you know, doesn't cut anything with me.
44:39I don't, I think it's, you know, come up, be a bit more transparent.
44:44So I'll ask you again.
44:45So if you wanted an appointment with Mr. Gandhi today, when will you get it?
44:49We are, because if it's anything related to parliament, and if it's, it's not in parliament, we communicate over WhatsApp.
44:57How was your relationship with him then when he was part of your partner?
45:00I respect all my seniors.
45:02I looked upon him as someone who's a rising star within Assam Congress.
45:07I looked upon him as someone that my father defended, despite everybody being against him.
45:12And I, you know, wanted to learn, that was my initial days into politics.
45:16And I wanted to learn from everybody. I wanted to even shadow him.
45:19And I would often say that, listen, I want to travel to your constituency to see what kind of work that you've done.
45:24Because I just said, I want to learn.
45:26And I've, as I, what I felt from my days of working in, in grassroots, with grassroots NGO, there's, there's no better way of learning.
45:36You have no problem working under him as chief minister, if he had ever.
45:39Well, if he, I mean, I would, if he is dynamic, if he's progressive, you know, had, and he would remain a staunch Congress, secular politician, who knows where he would have been.
45:51But, and this is where I credit Mr. Gandhi, Rahul Gandhi, because there was a time when there was a split within the party.
45:58And Mr. Rahul Gandhi had to make a choice between supporting a statesman like Tarun Gogojiji and a politician like Imanto Bishwa Sharma.
46:09And at that time, I think Rahul Gandhi made the right choice.
46:14And we all see Imanto Bishwa Sharma for his words, for his actions.
46:19And there's no inch of any real Congress ideology in him.
46:25I think he's a man who can only stay in power because he's done so many crimes, he can't stay outside of power.
46:31And therefore, he's ideologically bankrupt and flexible.
46:35And tomorrow, if the BJP leaves power, he'll be the first one to ditch them and join whichever party is in power.
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