- 5 minutes ago
In this intense debate, BJP National Spokesperson Shehzad Poonawalla and Political Analyst Sanjay Jha discuss the reported rift between Shashi Tharoor and the Congress leadership. Poonawalla claims, 'Congress, and particularly Rahul Gandhi, can't stand anybody who puts nation first,' citing Tharoor's praise for LK Advani and India's foreign policy as reasons for his alleged sidelining. He further suggests a 'board of peace' be formed to manage internal Congress factions. Sanjay Jha defends Tharoor as an 'intellectual heavyweight' and 'outstanding speaker,' though he admits Tharoor is a 'distinctive outlier' who might be a misfit in any political party. The discussion also touches upon Prime Minister Narendra Modi's gesture of welcoming Kerala CM Pinarayi Vijayan, which Poonawalla frames as a tradition of cooperative federalism. Jha acknowledges the Congress faces challenges and must avoid complacency in Kerala despite Tharoor's electoral strength.
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00:00Let me bring in Shahzad Poonawala, National Spokesperson of the BJP, also joining me shortly would be Sanjay Jha, Political Analyst.
00:07Shahzad Poonawala, Ramesh Chanitala, who's a senior Congress leader, has certainly said that Mr. Tharoor had taken the permission from the Congress leadership
00:19and that's the reason why he was not there in the meeting today.
00:22Then why is the BJP fishing in troubled waters?
00:27Or should I say there are no troubled waters at all?
00:30You're hoping for trouble.
00:33There was no trouble between DK Shiv Kumar and Sidhra Maiya.
00:39There was no trouble between Sukhu Ji and Pratiba Singh Ji.
00:42There was no trouble between DKS and Siddha.
00:46There was no trouble between Amrinder Singh Ji and Sidhu Ji.
00:49There was no trouble between Gailot and Pilate Ji.
00:51There was no trouble between Gailot and Pilate Ji.
00:53All is well.
00:54But only thing, Maria, you know, I come prepared with my facts.
00:57There's no trouble between Gailot and Rajdeep Sardesai's show on the 19th June 2025.
01:07Let's see, the India Today group has also been brought to you.
01:1026 February 2025, exclusive report of India Today.
01:14Shashi Tharoor exploring options.
01:16Anyway, Maria, I have been in Congress.
01:19So I'll just give you two things from what I know about Congress.
01:23Congress, and particularly Rahul Gandhi, can't stand anybody who puts nation first.
01:27So when Shashi Tharoor put nation first in Operation Sindhu, and when he wished LK Advani
01:32Ji, that time only Congress started abusing him, sidelining him, to the extent that Mr.
01:37Muddhi Dharan of the Kerala Congress said that we will not invite him for any party events.
01:41I wish Sanjay Jha was here because all these facts are important for him to know, because
01:45he lives in another Delulu.
01:46But now, second point, Maria, the extent of the division in Congress is so high.
01:51And take it from me, I have hundreds of people in Congress who report to me or tell me every
01:56day that even Rahul and Priyanka...
01:58Shashad, Sanjay Jha has joined us.
02:00So yes, let's put him on the screen as well.
02:02Yes, please go ahead.
02:03Please put him on the screen.
02:04I hope he has not missed the barrage of facts of Muddhi Dharan, Rajdeep and India Today
02:08that I have quoted.
02:09But having said that, just last two points, the fight is so intense between Rahul and
02:14Priyanka camps that someday Imran Masood says, Rahul, let go, Priyanka, let go.
02:19Someday Mohammed Mukheem says this and he's sacked from the Congress.
02:22But I have one proposal.
02:24Sanjay Jha, who's in suspended animation from a long time, Maria, I propose India Today
02:29to make a board of peace headed by Sanjay Jha and he can get all the warring factions of
02:35Congress on that board of peace and they all have to contribute 100 rupees.
02:40They will not have one billion dollars, etc.
02:42So they will contribute 100 rupees.
02:44Sanjay Jha will be the chairman of board of peace.
02:47One side, there will be Mr. Shashi Tharoor.
02:50Other side, there will be Mr. Muddhi Dharan.
02:53One side, there will be DKS.
02:55Other side, there will be Siddhar Mahiya.
02:57So I propose this from my age.
03:00Jha, do you want to respond to that?
03:02You know, the fact is that Dr. Tharoor is the most recognisable face of the Congress
03:07party in Kerala.
03:09And why is the Congress leadership not ready to give him a responsibility that he is ready
03:16for?
03:18Maria, good evening to you and to my friend Shahzad.
03:21Shahzad has been a friend of mine once upon a time.
03:24And now he comes on TV shows and gets, no, you get very acrimonious.
03:28You know, despite being in opposite parties.
03:31Well, if I can just finish, there are times he gets insufferably acrimonious and bitter.
03:38He was never like that.
03:40And I'm going to just tell him because he's spoken rather candidly on your program.
03:45I do think that he's at heart a decent man in a terribly lousy, toxic political party.
03:51He's a misfit there.
03:53And at some point, I think the Congress will come back.
03:56And if I know Shahzad Puna Velas, he will return as well.
03:59So Shahzad, I'm just putting it out in the public space.
04:02You are a misfit in the BJP.
04:04I think you're force-fitting yourself into a party that is blatantly bigotry at its core.
04:11And I don't think...
04:12Hey, Baba, you fit Tharoor in your party.
04:14Forget my fitting.
04:15No, I wanted to, Maria, put this at the very beginning.
04:18No, no, I wanted to put this at the very beginning because, Shahzad, I have been with you on public platforms.
04:24And you were more critical of Mr. Modi and Shah than I was.
04:27But anyway, Maria, let's go back to Sashi's issue.
04:30I think as far as Sashi's issue is concerned, it's not very complicated.
04:34There are two aspects here.
04:36Number one, that Sashi has always been an extraordinary parliamentarian.
04:41You will agree with me, even Puna Vala will agree with me,
04:44that end of day where Sashi is concerned, he's an intellectual heavyweight,
04:49he's academically brilliant, he's an outstanding speaker,
04:53and he's probably one of India's best exports in soft power.
04:57Now, the truth is, he would be a misfit in any political party.
05:01Now, I can tell you, I have been part of the Congress.
05:04Shahzad has been part of the Congress.
05:06And Sashi is part of the Congress.
05:08And in any political party where there is a person who is quite a distinctive outlier,
05:14you will find there will always be chronic and, I would say, recurring issues.
05:19You know, Sanjana, for all the reasons that you just mentioned,
05:24of his, you know, the sheer stature of Dr. Sashi Tharoor,
05:29shouldn't the Congress value him more?
05:32Well, you know, let me tell you something,
05:34that I have been in politics for a long time,
05:36and I know that the Congress got very upset with me
05:39when I called a spade a spade and I wrote an article in the Times of India.
05:43Now, I haven't carried any bitterness about it in my heart.
05:46A lot of people ask me, why didn't you shift?
05:49And why haven't you been, you know, overtly or covertly hostile?
05:54And I told myself, hang on,
05:56I'm ideologically compatible with the party from A to Z.
06:00And, Maria, there are misunderstandings that happen.
06:03I believe, given the structure or the Congress parties overall,
06:08I wouldn't say they're illiberal, they're very conservative.
06:11And therefore, they found my conversations probably breaching a certain protocol.
06:17I don't agree with it.
06:18I wouldn't do that.
06:19But the party thought it appropriate.
06:20That's their call.
06:21Now, my simple answer is where Sashi is concerned.
06:24I think Sashi and Congress are just going through this phase.
06:27And I think it happens in many relationships as well,
06:31where I can't do with you and I can't do without you.
06:34There's a piece of news that is coming in.
06:36And this is really something that we have seen Prime Minister actually do in other states as well.
06:42Beyond politics, Prime Minister Modi actually waited
06:44and personally received a Kerala Chief Minister on stage at the program today.
06:48We are putting out those visuals.
06:50So, you know, for all the criticism that we have seen,
06:53Prime Minister waiting for Kerala Chief Minister and receiving him at this stage,
07:00something which is about cooperative federalism,
07:03something which is certainly a good tradition in Indian politics.
07:06Just look at those visuals.
07:08You know, amidst the political war,
07:10this is what we are seeing, a heartfelt gesture,
07:13where the Prime Minister goes out to welcome Pinaray Vijayan, the Chief Minister.
07:19And we have seen that outreach happen at multiple levels as well.
07:23So, you know, Shahzad Poonawalla,
07:26we have seen multiple states where there is a lot of anguish,
07:30particularly in the run-up to the elections.
07:32What happens, say, in other states, number of states,
07:36I'm not going to name them.
07:38But here is a very welcome gesture,
07:42something that we see not much,
07:44but something which Prime Minister Modi in particular always extends.
07:47But, Maria, why are you surprised?
07:50And since you cover the government and you cover politics so deeply,
07:54you would know that the only government to give the Bharat Ratna or the Padma Awards
07:58to political rivals has been the BJP.
08:01In fact, whether it's Mulayam Singh Yadav Ji,
08:03whether it's Tarun Gogoi Ji,
08:05whether it's SC Jameer Ji,
08:06in fact, then you have Congress,
08:08which did not even give the proper Bharat Ratna
08:11to Ambedkar Ji or to Sardar Patel Ji on time.
08:14And here we have given it to people like Narsimha Rao Ji,
08:16who was not our Prime Minister or our party's Prime Minister.
08:19So, therefore, this is the difference between the two.
08:21Now, I am very glad that my dear elder brother Sanjay Jha,
08:24who himself has not been able to fit back into Congress,
08:27despite taking the Congress's stand so much,
08:30is worried about me being misfit in BJP.
08:32But Sanjay, forget about my fitting and misfitting.
08:35I have only two limited questions.
08:36You have extolled Shashita Roor.
08:39You have said, brilliant, academic, best, soft power export.
08:42But Sandeep Dixit has said he's irrelevant.
08:45In the show's package, Sandeep Dixit has said he's irrelevant.
08:50Secondly, Mr. Jha has said that this is outlier.
08:53No, Mr. Jha.
08:54Anybody who has talent, merit,
08:57and puts nation or party before the Pariwal,
09:00they get the same fate.
09:01You take your own example.
09:03You put party before Pariwal,
09:05aap suspend, abhibi suspend.
09:06I put party before Pariwal,
09:08I was thrown out.
09:09Shashi Tharoor puts nation before Pariwal,
09:12he's abused and heckled.
09:14And series of leaders who have been treated like this.
09:16So, Sanjay, this is not outlier.
09:18This is how Congress's kabila mindset operates.
09:21And therefore, I request you with folded hands,
09:23a board of peace bana do.
09:25And then you can probably have peace between the warring factions.
09:28Now, Rahul and Priyanka are also at war.
09:30So, you have to take peace to them also.
09:33Who will solve this problem?
09:36You know, Maria, let me tell you,
09:37I think there is no denying that when the party has not been fading well in elections,
09:42setbacks happen.
09:43You know, many people have left the party.
09:45Nobody's going to deny it.
09:46I'm not living in a fool's paradise.
09:48Neither are you, neither is Shahzad.
09:50When you're winning, everything looks good.
09:52When you're struggling, you know,
09:53the problems just kind of magnify or get amplified.
09:57I think the Congress, yes, has a challenge.
09:59It needs to get its good flock back together.
10:02It needs to fight as a unit.
10:03I'm not going to deny that.
10:04But where Kerala and Sashi is concerned,
10:07please do try and understand this one point.
10:09That when you have a man who is coming from a state
10:13where he's won four MP elections back to back,
10:16he's been remarkably electorally a massive asset for the Congress party
10:21through difficult times.
10:22So, Sanjay Jha, you and Shahzad Poonawala are in complete agreement here.
10:27Yeah, but I want to make a point here where Kerala is concerned.
10:30Shahzad, just one sec.
10:32Where Kerala is concerned,
10:33the Congress knows it is batting on a front foot.
10:36The Congress, I believe, has a great opportunity to win the state.
10:38No, but you know, every time the Congress has that kind of confidence,
10:41we saw that play out also in Haryana,
10:43where the Congress thought that they are just there at the power,
10:49just, you know, one more shot and they'll be at the power,
10:51and we saw the results.
10:53So, whenever we are overconfident, we have seen what happens,
10:55because it is internal divisions which play out.
10:58No, no, I agree with you.
11:00I was going to mention that, actually,
11:02that the Congress should not be complacent
11:04given the adverse, surprising setbacks it received
11:08over the course of the last year.
11:09So, my simple point would be that there are enough stakeholders
11:13looking for a share of the pie in Kerala.
11:16Sashi is one of them.
11:17It's competitive, and therefore, to that extent,
11:20it's going to be a problem of plenty,
11:22but the Congress will have to handle it intelligently.
11:24I agree with that.
11:25Okay.
11:26Just one.
11:26Sanjay is trying his best, but he's being as candid as an honest,
11:32and I appreciate that.
11:34But, Sanjay, when Tharoorji was on the stage in this Maha Panchayat,
11:37where this Maha Youth happened,
11:39Rahul Gandhi did not take his name,
11:41and Rahul Gandhi shook hands with everybody,
11:43but did not shake hands with him.
11:45Now, the only reason to trigger this is two.
11:47One, that Mr. Shashi Tharoor had recently wished LK Advani ji,
11:51and then he had said that Prime Minister of any country or foreign policy
11:55should be respected because it's India's foreign policy,
11:57India's Prime Minister.
11:58And secondly, he had contradicted what Rahul Gandhi was spewing lies
12:01about Operation Sindhu.
12:02Now, whatever may be the case,
12:04in political and public life,
12:06imagine that you even have a difference with me,
12:08you will still acknowledge me.
12:09Here is a four-time MP.
12:11You have given him so many adjectives,
12:14and Rahul Gandhi, this petty-minded person,
12:16does not even shake his hand and take his name.
12:18And this is Tharoor,
12:19who has considerable following amongst the middle class
12:22and various sections of society.
12:25Well, I can tell you one thing, Shazad,
12:27and to Maria and to the viewers of your program,
12:29that I think there's enormous respect.
12:32I don't think Shashi really needs any kind of,
12:35shall we say, buttressing of his credentials by anybody,
12:39not even anybody in the Congress Party.
12:41I think the bottom line is simply this,
12:43and I saw that stage encounter that you were talking about.
12:46Rahul and actually Sashi did make eye contact.
12:49And Shazad, let me also tell you that you know it.
12:51I mean, when you go on a public platform
12:53where there are, you know, senior people in politics,
12:56everyone is trying to kind of elbow the other person
12:59for a little attention and a handshake and a photo.
13:02I don't attach for some reason personally.
13:05I don't attach too much importance to that, seriously.
13:08Sanjay, we certainly know that that's not how it happens,
13:12particularly with senior leaders.
13:14And here is a senior leader with whom Rahul Gandhi has had disagreement.
13:19The Congress was pretty public about the fact that
13:22they do not want Dr. Tharoor to lead a delegation which went,
13:27all-party delegations which went to multiple countries
13:30after Operation Sindhu's success.
13:33So, you know, there has been disagreements,
13:34and those disagreements have been playing out in full public view.
13:37But the bigger challenge for the Congress Party is
13:40that can they afford these rumblings to have,
13:44particularly in the run-up to the elections,
13:46an election that is as crucial for their own survival in Kerala.
13:50That's the big question.
13:51Perhaps the Congress must answer that.
13:54So, thank you for joining us,
13:56Shazad Poonawalla and Sanjay Jha on this broadcast.
13:59That's all from me.
14:00We are putting this out on our website
14:02and also on the YouTube channel.
14:04Thanks so much for watching.
14:05Thanks so much for watching.
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