- 6 hours ago
David Heyman ('Jay Kelly'), Joseph Kosinski ('F1: The Movie'), Marc Platt ('Wicked: For Good'), Nia DaCosta ('Hedda'), Sara Murphy ('One Battle After Another') and Sev Ohanian ('Sinners') join THR in our Producer Roundtable.
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Short filmTranscript
00:00I think the most difficult thing for a producer is when you have to say no to something that you want to say yes to.
00:06And often you find new solutions and sometimes good things can come from that.
00:30Thank you so much for joining us for the Hollywood Reporter Producers Roundtable.
00:52And thank you all for joining us.
00:53Just to begin with, I am hoping everyone can tell me what is the moment as a producer that had you sweating the most?
01:02It can be on this movie. It can be on your first movie. It could be on not any movie at all.
01:06Seth, I'm looking at you first, so I am calling out you right now.
01:11I think on our movie Sinners, we shot that movie very much in the outdoors.
01:17Our production designer, Hannah Buechler, designed almost all the sets you see from the ground up and we were in the elements.
01:22But the weather wasn't always too kind to us. I'm sure you guys can relate to that.
01:26So some of our sequences, we had to, you know, we spent a lot of nights in Ryan's trailer trying to figure out how we can, you know, get back to shooting.
01:33One of our sequences is a sequence in the middle where Jack O'Connell, as Remick, has all of the turned vampires conducting this big dance, you know, set to Rocky Road to Dublin.
01:42We had budgeted like a good six hours for that sequence.
01:46You know, it's a sizable sequence.
01:48It just so happened, due to all those weather delays, we ended up finding ourselves with only an hour and a half to shoot that.
01:54And we were like talking, you know, Ryan, my partner Zinzi and I, we were all talking like, you know, should we try and punt this?
01:59But we might be able to get this.
02:00And Ryan was like, let's go for it.
02:01And we literally came together as a whole crew.
02:05I've never seen this happen before.
02:06Everybody was unified to pull this off.
02:08We were racing up and down to the hair and makeup trailers, to the 80s.
02:12People, locations are helping with shoveling, all the things.
02:14And we had to do, you know, 100 extras and special effects.
02:17And the sun was coming up and these are vampires, so we can't have sun, you know, in a vampire movie.
02:22And guys, we barely pulled it off and it was gorgeous.
02:26I genuinely think if you watch the sequence, you can feel all the performers are feeling that pressure.
02:30And, you know, we finished and, you know, we hadn't slept for 24 hours.
02:34We had to go sleep for the next night.
02:35But we all went and had empanadas because we had so much energy still from that experience.
02:39I mean, what a way to end a stressful day with an empanada.
02:43That's how you got to do it.
02:45Sarah, what about for you?
02:46I'm sure that we all had our pandemic moments.
02:49On Licorice Pizza, we were one of the first productions at the gate in L.A.
02:53And the reason that we had been in such a hurry and we had sort of rushed into production
02:56is because we only, we were going to lose Bradley Cooper to another show in Canada.
03:00We had like four days to shoot all of his sequences.
03:04And there was this one moment where he sort of has an altercation with a young kid at a gas station.
03:11That morning, it was a similar situation where we didn't have a lot of time and it was like
03:15a dusk shot and it was a one-er.
03:17It was this beautiful thing that they had rehearsed the whole time.
03:19And then I get a notification from our COVID team that we had a false, maybe false positive,
03:27but we had to retest one of the background.
03:29And I was like, which one?
03:32And it was the kid that he's, that Bradley Cooper is supposed to have an altercation with.
03:37And they get up in each other's face.
03:39So the rehearsing, we're just standing there basically waiting for the next test to get cleared.
03:44And for like an hour, they're rehearsing this thing.
03:47We're just standing there waiting for the test results to come back before I'm going to have
03:50to shut the whole scene down and or some, anyway, it came back positive like 10 minutes
03:55before we had to roll on that shot.
03:56I mean, it came back negative.
03:57Like that's not a happy ending.
04:01We got all clear like 10 minutes before we had to go, but it was quite stressful.
04:05Also, it was scary times of pandemic where you didn't know how bad COVID was going to
04:10hit somebody.
04:11So it was a nightmare.
04:13Mark, I saw you nodding along.
04:14Is yours COVID related too?
04:16I have a COVID story, but I'll tell a different one that I was making a film with a brilliant
04:21actor, Ryan Gosling, something we'd developed together called Drive about a getaway driver in
04:27Los Angeles.
04:28It's a beautiful script.
04:29Hasamini wrote the script and we were on the set the first day and Ryan, who has a very
04:34specific process, said, you know, this is a character that doesn't speak much, so I don't
04:40think I'm going to say much of this dialogue.
04:42And it was an independently financed movie and I froze for a moment because I thought
04:47people have put all and he's not going to.
04:50And so I sweated a little bit.
04:51It never happened to me.
04:52And then the camera started rolling.
04:53And I knew in an instant that he'd made such a smart, intuitive, truthful decision because
05:02he's a gifted actor who can tell you everything with what's in the eyes, but that character
05:07didn't speak.
05:08It didn't say.
05:08And it made him so much more powerful.
05:10And I saw it instantly in the scene.
05:13And so I wept away.
05:15Like, okay, we got it.
05:17Indeed.
05:18That's amazing.
05:19Nia, what about for you?
05:20With Hedda, we were supposed to shoot in the fall of 2023.
05:25And two days before we were supposed to shoot, the actors went on strike.
05:28Which, listen, I'm union strong.
05:30Let's go.
05:30But I was like, no.
05:33And we shut down and I knew that I would lose actors.
05:37I knew that we might lose our location.
05:39I knew that we might lose the whole film.
05:41Spiraled for about three days.
05:43Went to Greece, came back, and just was so amazed by my producing partners, the studio,
05:49Courtney Valenti, Lana Mayo, like, fighting to keep that movie alive.
05:52And I think two or three months later, we came back and we shot in January instead.
05:56But it was really, I mean, that whole week leading up to when the strike was announced,
06:00we were like, well, no, it's not.
06:01Is it going to happen?
06:01No.
06:02I mean, no, it's fine.
06:03Is it fine?
06:03No.
06:03You know, everyone doing that whole almost game of chicken.
06:06So, yeah, I spent a bit there.
06:08I mean, that's completely fair.
06:09I want to dig a little bit more on that because it's like one thing to mount a production,
06:14period.
06:15It's another thing completely to remount it, as you were saying.
06:19In that process, where did you start when it came to remounting it?
06:23You know, what were the things that were lost?
06:26And then ultimately, you know, what were the surprises that were like, this came out of
06:30something that was so sweat-inducing?
06:33No, for sure.
06:33Well, the most amazing part was, one, that we survived the strike, but also the owners
06:38of the house let us keep the house completely dressed for the entire time we were down.
06:45And, I mean, I think they also wanted to redo their roof.
06:47They were like, yeah, obviously you'll pay us more, but like, you know, but it really
06:50wasn't that much.
06:51And they were so supportive of us.
06:53And they lived there as well.
06:54So, I mean, it's their second home, but they also lived there.
06:56And it was really lovely because I think everyone in that film on Hedda really cared about it
07:01a lot and wanted to put everything into it, including the people we were renting the house
07:05from.
07:05But we lost two of our actors.
07:06Eve Hewson was cast.
07:07Callum Turner was cast.
07:09They were replaced by Imogen Poots and Tom Bateman, who are all amazing actors.
07:12So, I didn't feel like I was losing anything there.
07:14I just thought, okay, well, this isn't our time now.
07:16We'll meet each other down the road, you know, for Eve and Callum.
07:19And then the biggest thing was there was a scene where everyone's like talking in a
07:24lake, you know, frisson, frisson, sexiness, et cetera.
07:27And then from a September shoot to a January shoot in the Midlands in the UK is not what
07:34we're going to be doing, putting actors in water, trying to get them to talk with their
07:38teeth like chattering.
07:39And so we, Sean and I, Sean Bob at my DP, we said, okay, not water.
07:45It'll be fire.
07:46We'll have a huge bonfire.
07:47And that will be how, I mean, people are in the lake, but they were like stunt doubles
07:50or like trained, like cold water swimmers.
07:53And then we'll do everything else around this bonfire.
07:55And it was so much better than what it would have been.
07:58Joe, for you, the one thing that I, when watching F1 and then finding out that the actors are
08:04actually doing the driving, as a filmmaker, why was it important to have those actors be
08:10doing the driving?
08:11And on the flip side of that, how do you get insurers in the studio to get behind that?
08:17Well, the reason to do it is because I do really believe the audience, they appreciate
08:23that and they can feel it when something's done for real.
08:26I think we learned that on Top Gun Maverick, you know, shooting actors in real jets.
08:32So for F1, you know, the goal was to make the most authentic racing movie ever.
08:39And so that's what we set out to do.
08:40And it turns out both Brad and Dampson are really naturally gifted drivers.
08:45They had the best teachers in the world, including my fellow producing partner, Lewis Hamilton,
08:50the seven-time world champion.
08:52So they trained for four months and we built real race cars and shot at real Grand Prixs,
08:59all in an effort to try to capture, you know, the incredible experience of being at a Formula
09:05One race.
09:06Insurance-wise, yeah, there were a lot of conversations with the insurers.
09:12But, you know, again, they were well-trained.
09:14These were real race cars with real safety, you know, elements built into them.
09:18And the hardest thing to get the insurance company, you know, in their head was that
09:24these cars are safer the faster they're driven.
09:27So they only really work when they're driven very, very fast because they use downforce
09:31that pushes them down on the track.
09:33The brakes have to be hot to work.
09:35The tires have to be hot.
09:36So we spent a lot of time kind of explaining that.
09:39And once, you know, we got on the same page, Brad, you know, we were able, Brad was able
09:43to go 160, 180 miles an hour.
09:45Were they trying to give you like a speed cap for safety?
09:48There was a speed cap initially of 140, and it just wasn't fast enough to capture what
09:53we wanted to capture.
09:54But they proved lap after lap they could do it.
09:57And I think it, you know, the scariest moment was really the Las Vegas race, which is, you
10:03know, it's cold that time.
10:04So it was like 40 degrees at night.
10:06The tires got cold.
10:07The brakes got cold.
10:08Brad and Damson were not able to practice on that track before the actual shoot.
10:13We got a 15-minute window to shoot the scene.
10:16There's no runoff on that track.
10:19So if they did have a mistake, they'd go right in the wall.
10:22So of all the sequences, that one was, you know, going back to your first question, that
10:26was the most sweat-inducing.
10:28But again, they did great, and we pulled it off.
10:31I mean, I just found out that brakes don't work on those cars until they're very hot.
10:36And that is incredible.
10:37Sarah, for you, Paul Thomas Anderson, your director, really places an emphasis on location
10:44shooting.
10:45And you had gorgeous locations in this film.
10:48And I feel like one that gets called out a lot is the own car chase scene in a way.
10:53Maybe not going 100 to 60 to 180 miles per hour in yours, though.
10:57But is that car chase sequence with, I believe you guys called it the River of Hills?
11:03River of Hills.
11:04How did you all find that?
11:06And then ultimately, how did you pull off that sequence in terms of choreography?
11:12It felt like dancing, almost.
11:14Yeah.
11:16Yeah, I mean, Paul, I think for this film in particular, spent several years scouting with
11:21Flo, or Rencia Martin, his production designer, and Michael Glazer, his location manager.
11:26And because I think we were looking for the film to feel very authentic and sort of contextual,
11:32and so we really wanted it to be a traveling show.
11:36So anyway, they accidentally found this River of Hills while looking for a different location.
11:41But it was, I think they were driving at night and going over these hills and all of a sudden
11:46started feeling the terror of like not knowing what was on the other side of these hills and how fast
11:51you were going and how there was no foresight.
11:55So that very quickly got worked into the script for that final sequence.
11:59But, you know, it was a lot of coordination with Adam Sumner, our AD, and my fellow producer,
12:05and Brian Mackleit, our stunts coordinator, with those cars and making sure we're getting
12:10the right light.
12:11But we shot it over like four days.
12:15We actually shot that sequence over four days because we could only shoot in the morning and the
12:19evening for the light.
12:21And at the end of it, I remember Adam came up to me and he was like,
12:26we have to come back in the fall for the light.
12:28And I was like, you've got to be kidding me.
12:30We've been shooting for four days.
12:31We did not.
12:32We did not have to go back.
12:33But no, I mean, it was sort of understanding the dailies and going back to pick up pieces
12:40over the course of those days.
12:42Just a matter of interest, if you're shooting in the morning and you're shooting, did you
12:45shoot between?
12:46No, we were in the middle.
12:47There's nothing else to shoot.
12:48What was so incredible to see in your movie, and you touched on it, is just how much of
12:54California is shown.
12:56And there is such a conversation right now about getting productions back into California.
13:00So I'm wondering, and this is a question for everyone, what is it that can happen here that
13:09will bring you back to film in the state?
13:11Several of you have filmed here.
13:13What would you like to see in order to bring productions back here?
13:18I mean, I think for me, I try to go to the most authentic place to shoot.
13:23What's unique about Los Angeles is that anything you need is here, unless you need to shoot in
13:29a, I was going to say desert, but also that's here.
13:31But actually, what I love about California in particular is that California is a state
13:34that has almost every kind of terrain, every kind of ecosystem.
13:37It's a really beautiful state.
13:39It's my favorite state, but I'm from New York City.
13:40That's my favorite city.
13:42But to me, it's really about like, is it set here?
13:44Like, what can I, what can, because I know there's like tax credits and incentives and
13:48all these things.
13:49But when I think about shooting here, I'm really thinking about like, what, what can I get here
13:53that I can't get anywhere else?
13:54I think there's a lot, but I think it just depends.
13:56Like, I haven't had a movie, my last movie shot in the UK.
14:00Two of them are set in the UK.
14:01So there's no real incentive for me to come all the way out here to do it.
14:04But I don't think I've actually shot in LA.
14:07Oh my God.
14:07I don't think I've shot in LA actually.
14:09So what do I know?
14:09Mark, as someone who has shot in Los Angeles, you know, what are the upsides of shooting
14:16here and what would you like to see to bring more productions back?
14:20Well, selfishly, the biggest upside is you get to go home every night and for those of
14:24us who live here and get up in the morning with your family and then go to work.
14:28So that was the biggest upside.
14:30I've used California mostly for LA for when the story's been LA.
14:34Like, I've only shot a few movies here and Drive was set in LA and La La Land was set
14:40in LA and Babylon, that Flo was the designer on, was set in around LA.
14:46I made a movie years ago called Legally Blonde with Reese Witherspoon that wasn't set in LA,
14:50but it was all shot here.
14:52I think it's a lot economics and then, I mean, there's a lot of, and you've made a lot of
14:57studio films on set because you're building worlds and you've done that more than anybody
15:02in terms of creating fantasy and worlds.
15:05And so a lot of the musical films I've done, not La La Land, are worlds that you build and
15:10they therefore can be built anywhere.
15:12And it's a question of the craftsmanship to build, which is, which is, and is the tax
15:18incentive at all angles enough to incentivize a cost of a movie that has a large construction
15:24budget and a large painting budget and et cetera.
15:27You can speak to that probably better than anyone.
15:29I couldn't, I couldn't agree with you more.
15:31I've shot three times recently in LA and the only reason we filmed here was because we
15:37couldn't film anywhere else.
15:39It's an economic, it's an economic imperative.
15:44The new rebate here or the added rebate will help, but I don't know that it's enough, to
15:50be honest with you.
15:51The system in the UK is very clear in terms of how you qualify.
15:55There's no limit to, I mean, you even get credit on back end.
16:01It's incredible.
16:02And we have great crews and, you know, I mean, this film I just produced, we worked with British
16:09crew in the UK.
16:11It was fantastic.
16:11We shot here mostly with an American crew because a part of it took place in Los Angeles.
16:18And I produced Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
16:19You can't shoot that anywhere else.
16:22And we did get the tax credit.
16:24But it's, I think, as you say, it's about the pleasure is that are undeniable.
16:29The quality of the crew is undeniable.
16:31But it's an economic choice, really, unless you have no, you know, something like Once
16:38Upon a Time in Hollywood, you have something like a marriage story, something like Jay Kelly,
16:44you have no choice.
16:45Yeah.
16:46And I did want to ask you about Jay Kelly.
16:49That is your third time working with Noah Baumbach as a director, correct?
16:54And I know there's, I know you've worked with him as a writer a little bit.
16:58Yeah, as a writer on Barbie.
16:59Yeah, I am wondering, when you work with someone over the course of multiple productions,
17:06how does your collaboration grow?
17:08Is there a greater understanding?
17:10You know, what, from moving from marriage story, you know, now to Jay Kelly, do you
17:15understand about each other?
17:16Do you understand about Noah and his needs?
17:19I just think it's about communication and understanding.
17:23So I understand now that Noah requires a lot of rehearsal.
17:27So you've got to carve that out.
17:29In terms of the deals you're making.
17:32He does a lot of takes, but he always makes his days.
17:35He's very efficient in that regard.
17:38But he does many takes in searching for the exact performance.
17:42But understanding his needs, that's evolved over making three films.
17:48And the ease of communication.
17:49He's a producer, so there's a certain amount of pragmatic, but as a director, that pragmatism
17:57has a limit.
17:58And he is forever, as he should and as you want, is pushing the boundaries of what is
18:04possible.
18:04The pleasure of now the third film is being able to say, please, stop.
18:14Going back to your first question, I think the most difficult thing for a producer is when
18:23you have to say no to something that you want to say yes to.
18:26And I think that really is the, you know, and often you find, you know, new solutions.
18:34And sometimes it can be good things can come from that, obviously.
18:37But so working with Noah, I think it's really a privilege and a pleasure.
18:42I learn from him so much each day and on each film and just communication.
18:50I always think that from talking to producers, you all would make incredible therapists and
18:57also maybe hostage negotiators.
18:59I am wondering when it comes to keeping that relationship between filmmakers and the studio
19:07or filmmakers and financiers, how do you feel that is the job of the producer?
19:12And how ultimately do you make sure everyone is getting ultimately what they need?
19:17Maybe not what they want every time, but what needs to happen for the movie?
19:22Seb, I'm going to you again.
19:23Yeah, no, I mean, I would say that's definitely one of the jobs that, you know, one of the
19:28hats we definitely wear.
19:29I mean, on Sinners in particular, this was Ryan's fifth movie, and he's done so well for
19:35himself undeniably, but this is going to be an original movie for the first time.
19:39And it's a deeply personal story for Ryan.
19:41On paper, maybe it's some of the things that studios wouldn't necessarily look for.
19:44It's period, predominantly black cast, you know, musical elements.
19:48There's vampires in the movie, but they don't show up for a while.
19:50So it's like we were going for something very bold, but we were really fortunate with our
19:54studio, Warner Brothers, you know, Mike and Pam, Jesse, the whole team over there.
19:57They were actually quite understanding.
19:59And, of course, we had challenges in making the movie, you know, who doesn't?
20:03But I think this was, you know, I've known Ryan now for so long.
20:07We went to film school together.
20:08You know, I helped produce his first movie, Fruitvale Station.
20:10All those years of collaboration, I think, just like you were saying, like, it's definitely
20:14been a matter of communication.
20:16I think we've had a much larger trust in each other.
20:19And, you know, Zinzi Kugler, our other partner, and our department heads, we've all worked with
20:23together so many, so many times.
20:24And I think Ryan has just reached a level of comfort with every one of us that he's good
20:28to push us, and we're there to help support him and make it happen.
20:31And in this particular case, you know, we're really grateful it kind of worked out.
20:34Yeah, definitely.
20:37Mark, I am wondering, you know, what are certain things that you are willing to fight for and
20:42certain things that you are willing to let go of, and how do you decide that?
20:46Look, I think all of us as producers work to create environments for which our creative
20:52team does their best work.
20:54And it starts with the filmmaker.
20:56And every filmmaker is different.
20:57It's communication.
20:58In the same way that directing an actor, some actors have this kind of process and some have
21:03that, and a good director will find the language and the grammar to get the actor to go where
21:09they want.
21:09And it's no different for a producer.
21:11So I think we look at each environment, meaning some directors are strong at certain things.
21:16Some are strong at everything.
21:17Some aren't.
21:18Some need you right next to them at the monitor.
21:20Some do a little better when you step back and you come in.
21:23And you find your way.
21:24And then it's not one size fits all.
21:27And I do think it's our job in the financing and studio side to be the navigators of that,
21:33to be good partners.
21:34I'm a big believer in being a good partner with my studio, my financier.
21:38And I'm sure they are taking risks as well.
21:40But I am always aware of the line over which I don't want to go.
21:46And so to give a specific example, and I have extraordinary partners on the Wicked films,
21:51Universal, couldn't have been better.
21:53But Nathan and John Chu, Nathan Crowley, designed to come up with this train that was very significant
22:00to me that takes the characters from into the Emerald City.
22:05The movie could exist without a train.
22:08The story doesn't change.
22:09But I intuit it and understood not only that there are wants for there, but I felt it was
22:14cinematically, you need to go somewhere.
22:18It was such a big moment for this character to go.
22:20And I knew cinematic need to have something.
22:23And, you know, the budget was big and I want to cut back.
22:25So that's a fight I'm willing to do.
22:27But it's backed up with the intention of what we're doing and why we're doing it.
22:33Yeah, definitely.
22:33It's about making sure that that balance stays there, that you're never, it's never going
22:40one way or the other.
22:41That's right.
22:42Joe, I'm wondering for you as a producer, but also as a director, at what times are you
22:47putting on your producerial hat and what times are you putting on your filmmaker hat?
22:52And are you leaning on your producers to be able to be like, to say the please no or
22:58the, you know, like, this is.
23:00Well, I'm here as a producer representing an amazing lineup of producers we had on F1 with
23:06Jerry and Chad from Bruckheimer Films, Jeremy, Dee Dee and Brad from Plan B, and then Lewis
23:13Hamilton as well.
23:14So I had an amazing group around me of incredible experience and incredible taste.
23:22So for the most part, yeah, as, you know, as the director, you know, this movie came out
23:27of a dream to shoot a film, you know, at live events.
23:31But certainly the producer side understood that it's a little bit insane to shoot your
23:37film in nine minute videos, putting it all on the line every single day.
23:43But I felt like I had such a great team around me and such an amazing crew that everyone kind
23:50of rose to the challenge.
23:51And yes, we certainly had some headwinds, you know, the sag strike, which, you know, delayed
23:57your film hit me on day six, where I lost four of my actors.
24:02But because we were based in the UK, it was largely an equity show and a UK crew.
24:07So I switched from first unit director to second unit director and continued shooting for 38
24:13days and was able to kind of keep the crew working.
24:16And actually, as, you know, as we find when adversity strikes, in the long run, it can be
24:22a really positive thing.
24:24And for our film, having, you know, the ability to have a little downtime in the middle and
24:30then come back and finish it up the second year made the film better.
24:34But yeah, certainly in my own head, there were days where I'm like, in the back of my
24:38head saying, is this insane?
24:40Like, what am I doing?
24:41And Nia was there, I guess, for one of those days, too.
24:44Yeah, for a service to Nia.
24:45How was it being on the ground there?
24:47Oh, you're insane, bro.
24:48Like, it reminded me of when I was younger and first falling in love with film.
24:53Because my feeling was, oh, you can do anything in this medium.
24:57And to be on set when you're, you have Javier Bardem and Tobias Menzies, like, doing these
25:01takes over and over again, like, camera rolling, and then there's a race that's about to start
25:05around you.
25:05I was like, this is amazing.
25:06Like, of course you can do that.
25:07Because so many people would tell you, you can't do that.
25:09That's not possible.
25:10But when you have yourself and the producers that you have, you find that actually anything
25:15is possible.
25:15So it took me back to what I love about film.
25:17I love that.
25:18Um, we, there's several movies that, uh, are available in premium formats.
25:25Uh, several of your films were.
25:27So for, for Sinners, you all went into production with, uh, knowing that you would be offering
25:35several of these for exhibition.
25:37How important was that in terms of pushing for those premium formats?
25:43And, you know, what is it that you think audiences are drawn to about these, especially younger
25:49audiences that seem to be going to these more and more?
25:53Yeah.
25:53I mean, it was, it was a major drive for us to make the movie the way we did.
25:57And, you know, when we were in post and we were getting close to the release, you know, we
26:02knew we had made a good movie.
26:03We really believed in it.
26:04But the question is always like, will the audience show up?
26:07You know, that's always a question today.
26:09And I remember we were, you know, having one of those late nights in the edit, um, talking
26:14about, oh, if only there was a way that people could know how much we put into this film,
26:18specifically the way we shot it, large format, combining these various types of film and
26:22all the, all the trouble.
26:23Our, our amazing cinematographer Autumn went through and Ryan one day was like, what if
26:27we just tell them?
26:28We just had Ryan for 10 minutes talk about different film formats, the way we shot Sinners
26:33and why we shot it that way.
26:35And specifically like, what are the various ways you can see this film?
26:38If you wanted to go see it in theaters and what the differences are of various of these
26:41films, we put that out there.
26:43And I genuinely think it made a real difference because I think people saw, you know, Ryan's
26:47passion for the medium.
26:48And I think it really just educated them that there's, that there's ways you can see films
26:52in theaters.
26:52So it was a big deal for us.
26:54I was telling Joe, I saw his film in 4DX, like spilling my popcorn everywhere.
27:00You know, I think, you know, I'm a big believer in the theatrical experience.
27:03I always say like, I don't think there's any bigger impact culturally than a film that sweeps
27:07theaters across the world.
27:09And, and the fact that our movie, you know, worked the way it did and people were seeing
27:13it multiple times in different formats, you know, it's, it was a big deal for us because
27:17I really believe in the idea of people seeing a movie in a communal space.
27:20Yeah, definitely.
27:21And Sarah, for you, I know you had the, the VistaVision, which is incredible.
27:26What was it like being able to offer that?
27:29And ultimately, what did you learn from that experience seeing these screens?
27:34We'll start there with that look.
27:36And ultimately, you know, what did you learn from audiences' interests?
27:40No, I mean, it was actually coming off the heels of Sinners, actually.
27:44I think that the studio was really, you know, embracing, although we had gone in shooting
27:49VistaVision and always planned that.
27:50And I think for Paul, you know, that's part of what he loves.
27:54I mean, you know, he, but he was also, he was also like, well, we've done 70 millimeter.
27:58What else can we do?
27:59And so he had started looking at the VistaVision cameras years ago.
28:03And we had, had experimented a little bit on a music video that we did for Tom York.
28:08And, but at the time, the, the cameras weren't ready.
28:12There were, there were very few of them and they hadn't been properly refurbished.
28:16And there were a couple that we had rumored, heard rumors about that were going to be,
28:20you know, becoming available.
28:22So anyway, as we started planning the shoot, we finally did come, come into like having,
28:29Giovanni Ribisi actually had the best models.
28:32He's, he has been refurbishing them for many years.
28:36Giovanni.
28:37Yeah, Giovanni.
28:38Anyway, we went into the production.
28:39I think Paul was very excited.
28:40We also did have the privilege of watching our film dailies with the VistaVision projector as well.
28:47And so we could see how magnificent it was just so much texture.
28:52And I think from the get, that was something Paul wanted to infuse into the theatrical experience.
28:57So we also then therefore had to start very early on the projectors because they also didn't exist.
29:03And we, at the time of the release, I think we had four, Boston, New York, LA, and London.
29:11And it's beautiful and magnificent.
29:13And I hope that people continue.
29:14And I think they will.
29:15And already the cameras are being used, but it was, it was, you know, because of Sinner's
29:21success, I think, in all the formats that, that Warner Brothers really embraced that as
29:25well and sort of set us up for success with these projectors in these specialty locations
29:29as well as the IMAX and the 70 millimeter.
29:32So, but yeah, no, I mean, I think it's, we kind of, it's part of the, like, retaining
29:37and, like, inventizing the theatrical experience right now.
29:40And I think we kind of all have to lean into it.
29:44Yeah.
29:45And educate, continue to educate the youth because that's who's going to the movies and they love
29:49it.
29:49I think they're eager to see the large formats.
29:52Yeah.
29:52And it's become rather competitive, the window.
29:56I also love when they're different ones.
29:57Because I saw, the reason why I saw One Better After Another twice is because I saw Vista
30:00Vision.
30:01But I love, I'm the IMAX person.
30:02I was like, what would so many more IMAX be like?
30:04And so a friend of mine who also saw Vista Vision, we went and saw it, so many more IMAX.
30:08And it was just the comparing the two and, like, talking about that.
30:11Like, I think that's another way to inventize, not just watching it once, but going again.
30:14Yeah.
30:14Which is awesome.
30:15It's also transportive on a big screen.
30:17Yeah.
30:17And people can come out of your life for a little bit in this world we're living in.
30:21And that's what film can offer, cinematic experience can offer.
30:25So, the largesse.
30:27And immersive.
30:28And immersive, yeah.
30:29Yeah.
30:29Well, it's funny.
30:29I think I went to see Top Gun.
30:31I think the IMAX was sold out.
30:32And I went to see In the Dolby.
30:34And I thought it was going to lift out of the theater.
30:37It was, like, shaking and rumbling.
30:38And it was great.
30:40The great thing about these premium formats is you also know the theater's going to be set up to spec.
30:46So, the volume's going to be turned up to seven, and the bulb's going to be bright, and you're going to get that reference quality.
30:53And, you know, I'm sure we've all been to preview screenings where you show up at, you know, a neighborhood theater.
31:00Yeah, it's horrifying.
31:01Yeah, and you see just kind of what the standard is out there.
31:05And so, with these premium formats, you know you're going to get what the filmmaker intended.
31:10And I think that's so important.
31:12And I encourage all the exhibitors, you know, to try to get that standard.
31:16You know, there used to be something called THX where you knew everything was going to be set up.
31:22But that's people out of their homes, off their phones, into the theaters, and give them an experience that they won't forget.
31:28And the theater can do that when it's done right.
31:30This is making me miss Arclight Hollywood because I remember growing up, that was, like, where you knew you were always going to get that exact experience.
31:37Fun fact, I proposed to my wife at the Arclight Hollywood.
31:40Oh, my God.
31:41You know, Natalie.
31:43Yeah, we've got to reopen Arclight Hollywood for no other reason.
31:46I'm so confused.
31:48Wait, I heard a rumor.
31:49I've been saying that for years.
31:51I mean, I've lost hope.
31:53I need back so bad, guys.
31:55It's always a rumor.
31:56We need to put some more costumes and get some wicked, you know, for good costumes in the foyer.
31:59You know, we need to get that place back open, man.
32:01The other thing you always hear about getting people into theaters is the movie star talent and how that has changed if people are going to certain talents.
32:09So many of these films have big talents in them, whether it's Michael B. Jordan or Leo or Brad or George.
32:16I am wondering, is there an inherent difference between the Georges and the Brads of the world and the younger talent that's coming up in the industry right now?
32:26Or is it about audiences' tastes have shifted?
32:30I do think there was a time in the film culture where you waited for the next movie of a particular movie star.
32:38And that was the brand, right?
32:41And I think the younger folks ask more of their brand.
32:45It's either familiarity with the material or the source, or it is the marriage of a particular actor to a story or brand where one plus one equals three.
32:56And then that becomes the brand.
32:58There are very few actors, I think, that are automatic.
33:01But you put an actor people are aware of in the right concept, in the right story, then it's combustible and it becomes its own brand, so to speak.
33:10In some way, that's always been the case, don't you think?
33:13Maybe, but there was a time in the 90s and early 2000s where, what's the next Arnold Schwarzenegger movie?
33:22What is the next?
33:23And where there was a, that was the brand, and you waited.
33:26Luckily, there's still filmmakers who are brands.
33:29I think Ryan's become a brand, and PTA, I think, has always been a brand.
33:34And so I think that's a change in the culture.
33:39Just thinking, hearing you say that, because I was watching Witness for the first time, actually, last week, and I was like, got obsessed with Harrison Ford again, went through this whole filmography.
33:47Wasn't that a good movie?
33:48I mean, it's fantastic.
33:49That was a great movie.
33:50But, like, all those genres have, like, migrated to streaming.
33:53So, like, the rom-com has migrated to streaming.
33:55Like, the sort of smart thriller has migrated to streaming in a way that I think that's also why.
34:01Because a lot of these stars would be in those kinds of movies, and now they're not really given the theatrical treatment in the same way, which I find really interesting.
34:08And I think people do respond to originality and anything done in a surprising way.
34:15I think F1 was a completely, it was immersive, you know, in a way that was just so extraordinary.
34:22I'd never seen anything like it.
34:24I think Sinner's film, wholly original.
34:26And these are films, I think audiences want that.
34:30I think they're hungry for that.
34:31I think the financiers are less willing to embrace them, to give, you know, Apple, Warner's credit, you know, with your film too.
34:40And, you know, we need more of that.
34:42It's really the financiers.
34:43Because I do believe that, I want to believe, maybe it's a naive belief, that if you make it and it's extraordinary, and I think original films can be extraordinary, you're proof of it.
34:55They will come.
34:56I think so, too.
34:57There is a new pressure of these windows of you having a certain amount of time because of streaming.
35:03Yes, it's true.
35:04That puts a pressure on that opening that one can, on the negative side, say it has a mitigating fact against something completely original.
35:12It's true.
35:13Without a star.
35:14But I think it's up to these talented folks and all the filmmakers you work with to keep telling the stories, as I said, that meet the moment.
35:22All of a sudden, the unexpected happens, and then it's Hollywood.
35:25Everybody wants to do with the unexpected.
35:27And that becomes a thing, right?
35:29Right?
35:30But I also, I think that what happens is, but when an original doesn't succeed, it somehow carries more weight than if an IP doesn't succeed.
35:38Why do you think that is?
35:39Because everybody's looking for some security, and it's much more security when you're making something that has, you know, it was movie stars, as you say.
35:50And I think having that IP allows people who are making decisions to feel more comfortable and justify the choice.
35:58And as we all say, you know, we are competing with so many different media.
36:02I mean, I understand it.
36:03I really do.
36:04You're competing with so many different forms of entertainment on phones, on television screens, and everywhere, you know, TikTok and beyond.
36:14And so to make some, to actually, and with all the noise, to actually have a film that awareness and people, it's hard.
36:25Yeah.
36:25It's hard.
36:26But films can still, I believe, achieve something that none of these other mediums can even get close to.
36:32And that's what's exciting to me is when you have the right group of people.
36:36When you have Michael B. Jordan and Ryan get together, or you have Brad Pitt with F1, you know, because it only would have been made with Brad Pitt.
36:44So you need the familiar, but you also need to surprise people.
36:47But when the right team comes together, film can surpass any other medium.
36:53And that's what I like to believe in, you know.
36:55Couldn't agree with you more.
36:56That's why we do what we do.
36:58That's why you stick in it, Sean.
37:00Definitely.
37:01There is something that I noticed this year that reached an uptick where there was a general obsession with box office and budgets and profitability.
37:12Seven, Sarah, I feel like this particularly hit with, like, Sinners and One Battle After Another.
37:16Are you annoyed by this conversation?
37:19Or, you know, is there ever a productive conversation when it comes to something like profitability, which is such a nebulous term and hard to pin down?
37:33No, I mean, I think, yes, the dialogue specifically around, I think, you know, Warner Brothers and the studio over this last year was unfortunate.
37:43It was just an unfortunate dialogue, I think, that was kind of counterproductive to the projects and the films that were being made.
37:52And I'm happy to see them on the other side of that now because I think, you know, to your point about original films, they were taking a lot of risks and they were taking a lot of leaps.
38:01And I think that was at the forefront of their agenda.
38:04And it paid off.
38:07Yeah, definitely.
38:08People are always still going to want to go to theaters.
38:10Yeah, and they'll make great films and original films, to David's point.
38:13Yeah.
38:14When it comes to Wicked, you've been with it for over two decades now in various iterations.
38:21I'm wondering now that this second film is coming out, what do you anticipate it feeling like after working on this for so long over the course of two films with the stage production?
38:33Do you think there will be a sadness there or are you excited for it?
38:36I mean, there's definitely a, it's definitely been an overwhelmingly emotional experience, a very specific journey than any other film.
38:44So, and the stage production still, it's still part of my life and my world, thankfully.
38:49But it's definitely a culmination.
38:50I started to make it as a film when I first began and really took a left turn to make it into a musical on stage first.
38:58And so I waited until I felt I had the tools as a producer and I had the stature to be able to make it the way I wanted to, still be a good partner with the studio.
39:08And then I was lucky to find a filmmaker in John Chu who was, you know, that was just the right marriage of a filmmaker to material and from day one.
39:18And so it's a, it's a very emotional for me.
39:22And so there's, there are tears.
39:24We just figure out the next incarnation.
39:26Yeah.
39:26Do you think it could exist in any other sort of iteration?
39:30Do you see shepherding that for yourself?
39:33Well, it will always be hard for me as long as I'm breathing to let go completely of Wicked.
39:37Although that was all the other one, the challenge is to let really creative people like John Chu and my designers come in and say, we're going to, we're going to interpret it this way.
39:46And for me not to say that's not the way we do it.
39:48It was also like a, honestly, a wrestling match inside me.
39:51I have to say to find that balance, but we'll say, you never know.
39:55You never know.
39:56We are living in a world of brands.
39:58So you can imagine your partners go like that, but let's everybody enjoy and embrace this film, hopefully, and be satisfied by it.
40:07And then we'll move on from there.
40:08It sounds like, one, you wanted the story to find the fandom, and then also you didn't want to then disappoint those fans with this.
40:17That feels like a very tenuous situation.
40:21How ultimately did you toe that line and make sure that it was something that didn't destroy the production?
40:28It's a challenge.
40:29David's been through it because he took the most popular series of books ever and very successfully created wonderful cinematic experiences with Harry Potter.
40:37It's a balance.
40:41So I had what was called sort of, we had this phrase between John and I, is this Bible or not Bible?
40:47And it's an intuition.
40:48There are certain things I just knew, this is wicked.
40:52And, you know, it's like any fanboy adaptation, we used to call it fanboy, comics, et cetera, super, of what will people miss or not miss?
41:00It's one of the reasons it's two movies.
41:01So I didn't want to start chopping down things I knew fans would love.
41:05But the rule I had was if there's something that's additive, like, and I would know if it were additive, meaning a change that worked better on film by omitting something, or something that was further elaborated or amplified, and I could see it was additive to the character and the journey, and just then that was my litmus test.
41:25David, for you, how is it to jump back into that world of something with Harry Potter that you've seen through films and now through stage and then going back into it again, knowing all of this?
41:38I had nothing to do with the stage, but similar to Mark, it's both exciting because I think they're real opportunities, and it's exciting to see it interpreted through other people's eyes.
41:49For me, the key is finding, and I think it's true on any project, an original or an adaptation, but particularly with any project, is finding collaborators who you share a vision with,
42:03and people who are as passionate about what you're doing as you are, so there's no way, there's no objective thing that people love about, there may be certain things, but people take different things from wicked, and the same with Harry Potter.
42:18And so it's about trusting your instinct, as you say, it's intuition, and making sure you have partners who have a similar intuition, have a similar passion for the material.
42:29And if you do that, then you're actually pretty safe, and I think that you capture the spirit of something as much as you can't do it every single element, for example, from a book.
42:43It may be different for, you know, yours began with a book, too, so you can't do every element.
42:50So it's about understanding what you're doing and having partners who, creative partners, who share that vision and passion.
42:59Definitely.
43:00Well, with these final few minutes here, we do this series called Rapid Round, where it's these, it's meant to be these faster questions, just throwing out your opinions.
43:12They're meant to be a little bit more fun.
43:14I hope you agree.
43:17The first one here, ideal runtime for a movie.
43:22Two hours and seven minutes.
43:23Incredible.
43:24Hour 47.
43:25Hour 49.
43:27Whatever the story requires.
43:30Okay, but really, though.
43:33I've seen films that are four hours, and it works.
43:38Yeah, whatever it demands.
43:44There's no right or wrong, but that is the right answer.
43:47There's some movies I've seen at 86 minutes that were far too long.
43:50There were movies that I've seen at three and a half hours where I wished it would just go on.
43:55That's what it is.
43:56But it's an hour 47.
43:58Just to be clear, the correct answer is an hour 47.
44:01If we were to look at all of your IMDb's, what would be the most surprising credit on there?
44:09I did a Taco Bell commercial, which is on my IMDb.
44:14So, yeah.
44:15I did a Chinese Mandarin language movie that I was like a junior producer on in my early indie film days coming up.
44:20I'm very proud of that movie.
44:21I don't understand any of the dialogue, but it's a good movie.
44:26And you know what?
44:26That's the language of cinema.
44:28I think when you're starting off, you don't, you know, I think when I'm starting off, there may be some things when I look back at the early stages of my career where I go, ooh.
44:37Quite a few of those.
44:38You know, I made a film about a blind gunslinger called Blind Justice.
44:43It's a great title.
44:45Not my proudest moment.
44:48But I got to say, that's the first thing I'm going to watch when I get home.
44:53That sounds absolutely incredible.
44:56Now, David, I'm not going to ask you who is going to get cast as James Bond unless you want to tell me right now, in which case I will ask you that.
45:04But I will ask everyone else who, if you're dream casting James Bond.
45:10Oh, thank you.
45:11Yeah.
45:11Let's give David some ideas here.
45:14I like Def Patel.
45:15I almost said that.
45:20Jamal Westman.
45:21He's an actor.
45:22He was in my movie, Hedda.
45:23He originated Hamilton in London, actually.
45:25Oh, wow.
45:25He's amazing.
45:26He's very tall, very hot, and a great actor.
45:29Oh, there you go.
45:30I'll throw Damson Idris in the mix, having just worked with him.
45:33Yeah.
45:34Fantastic actor.
45:35Yeah.
45:36I would love an unknown that's a discovery.
45:39I think there's something that would be very exciting about discovering someone I don't know and having him step into those shoes.
45:46Yeah.
45:47Out of the blue.
45:49I mean, could we have a female James Bond?
45:51This is your dream casting.
45:53Who would you like to see?
45:54I don't know that I have anybody in particular.
45:56I'm just spinning.
45:57Just throwing it out there.
45:58Yeah, throwing it out there.
45:59And then the final question, wrapping up this roundtable, which thank you so much for this amazing conversation, is I am wondering, what was the movie that made you want to make movies?
46:10Mark, I made eye contact with you, so I'm starting with you.
46:12I'm so sorry.
46:13Oh, gosh.
46:13I mean, I don't know that there was one.
46:16I grew up in a time where everyone, there were certain films on television once a year, and the family would gather around.
46:25Our little TV, for example, once a year to watch The Wizard of Oz, and that was quite an adventure.
46:31I can remember the first time my parents took me to see Mary Poppins was an adventure.
46:36I must have been four or five.
46:37And then as I go older, there just were touchstones of films where I thought, that's, you know, The Godfather.
46:43Both one and two were just so, for me, immersive in just music and design and story and Shakespearean characters.
46:52And that I thought, if I could touch that at some point, that would be kind of amazing.
46:57That's incredible.
46:59Sarah, what about for you?
47:01You know, I didn't plan on getting into film until I was working on the first set I worked on, which was Capote, Bennett Miller's Capote.
47:09I was working with Phil Hoffman, and I also didn't know anything about acting, and I didn't know anything about how movies were made or shot.
47:17But one, I got very familiar with the particular kind of acting in that movie with Phil, which was an incredible education and just respect for what that takes.
47:27But the, like, movie magic moment was when we were shooting in the car, and somebody, the grips had, like, shoved a two-by-four under the back tire, and we're just jumping on the two-by-four to make the car move.
47:43And I was like, ah, like, movie magic.
47:48And that was the hook, yeah.
47:51Incredible.
47:52What about for you, Nia?
47:53Um, Godfather's one of them.
47:55It's this sort of new American cinema era, like, Dark Day Afternoon, Godfather, Apocalypse Now.
48:01Like, those were my, I mean, I loved film for a long time, but that's when I was like, oh, I, oh, that's a director, director, director, that director.
48:09And then that's when I knew what my job would be inside of it, and that was what really inspired me.
48:14Yeah.
48:14I mean, for me, it was Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.
48:19Like, that movie blew my mind when I saw it for the first time.
48:22I think I might have been in high school.
48:23Like, it took themes of, like, memory, identity, love, and really maximized, like, to the extent that the movie possibly could of exploring those in a really cinematic way.
48:34And I remember, it's a rare, like, 10 out of 10 movie for me where I was like, I just want to be involved in making something that might have this kind of impact on someone.
48:41Yeah, definitely.
48:43David, what about for you?
48:44Well, you know, one of the themes of J. Kelly is, you know, our whole life is, in a way, our life is movies.
48:52You know, I can remember where I was when I met, what film I was working on, when I met my wife, when I had my son, et cetera, et cetera.
49:01And I think it's the same in terms of, there's no one movie that made me want to be in movies.
49:08I grew up around movies.
49:09But I suppose for me, it's very similar in the 19th, you know, that period of the 70s was when I realized it might be something for me.
49:19You know, when I saw the Hal Ashley movies in particular.
49:22You know, films like Harold and Maude or Being There or, you know, were films that, all of his films actually had such shampoo.
49:31You know, I watched it in high school and I was like, what's going on?
49:34You know, were films that really were seminal films for me growing up.
49:42And I remember where I was when I watched each and every one of them.
49:45Yeah.
49:47Joe, you're bringing us home.
49:48Yeah, I mean, the first film I remember seeing in the theater was Raiders of the Lost Ark as a six-year-old.
49:54Did not sleep that night.
49:56Six years old.
49:57Now I'm realizing, probably not appropriate.
49:59But I don't think PG-13 existed then, so I'll give my dad a pass there.
50:04But the first movie that I really, I think, understood, you know, what a director was and what a director could create, probably 2001.
50:12Well, thank you all so much.
50:16I have no doubt that in the future, people will be saying all of these movies were the ones that inspired them to make their own films.
50:26So thank you so much for taking the time to talk about them.
50:28It's so appreciated.
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