- 5 weeks ago
Are Flying Saucers Real? For the past 40 years, Stanton Friedman has been the world's foremost investigator and lecturer on the UFO phenomenon. He is credited with breaking the famous Roswell UFO case and is a leading expert on the procurement of government UFO documents. This is his story.
Category
🎥
Short filmTranscript
00:00Transcription by CastingWords
00:30First, the question, are there any flying saucers?
00:36Now, some people get very angry at me for using the word flying saucers.
00:40Why don't you say UFOs, Stan?
00:43Flying saucers, that's a tabloid bit of nomenclature.
00:47That's not so.
00:52I want to make a very clear-cut distinction between flying saucers and UFOs.
00:58All flying saucers are unidentified flying objects.
01:02Very few unidentified flying objects are flying saucers.
01:10And besides, UFOs didn't come into use until after 1950,
01:15and I'm interested especially what happened in 1947,
01:18when it was flying saucers, flying discs.
01:20You know, there's nothing wrong with the term.
01:29So don't get mad at me for using the word.
01:31I've used it for many years.
01:33My lecture is normally flying saucers are real,
01:34and I'm not ashamed of it at all.
01:36Next speaker is Stanton T. Friedman,
01:44known as the flying saucer physicist,
01:46nuclear physicist by background,
01:48and a noted author,
01:49and one of our long-time supporters.
01:52I'm cute.
01:53I've spoken at more MUFON conferences than anybody.
01:57That's because I'm older than most of the guys up here.
02:00Worked in industry on more cancelled government-sponsored
02:04advanced research and development programs
02:06than anybody that I've ever met.
02:08Nuclear airplanes, fission and fusion rockets,
02:10nuclear power plants for space,
02:11little companies like General Electric,
02:13Westinghouse, General Motors,
02:14TRW System, McDonnell Douglas.
02:18I've focused particularly on the Roswell incident.
02:21Somebody called me the grandfather of Roswell.
02:23It used to be the father of Roswell,
02:25but I guess I'm getting older.
02:27I get around noisy.
02:30That's what I am.
02:31I talk about noisy negativists.
02:32I'm a noisy positivist.
02:34How's that?
02:39Mr. Friedman has spoken at more than 600 colleges
02:41and over 100 professional groups
02:43in the 50 states, 9 Canadian provinces,
02:45and 13 countries.
02:47He's published over 70 UFO articles,
02:49co-authored the book Crash at Corona,
02:52the Definitive Study of the Roswell Incident,
02:54his 1996 book about the Operation Majestic 12
02:58top-secret magic is in its sixth printing.
03:02The title of Mr. Friedman's program
03:05is Flying Saucers and the Cosmic Neighborhood,
03:08and he'll be looking at just where these folks
03:09might be coming from.
03:11Stan?
03:14The more lecturing I did,
03:15the more I realized that I really enjoyed
03:18being on the stage.
03:19The bigger the crowd, the happier I was.
03:21And secondly, I found that I like people.
03:25I stand behind a table with information sheets,
03:27with books and stuff.
03:28People are always wanting to tell me
03:30about their experiences.
03:32There's no question that some people think,
03:34well, maybe that was a flying saucer,
03:36and they sent all these shells.
03:37I saw that go across the sky.
03:38Oh, you did see the thing in the sky.
03:40Oh, sure.
03:41From Southgate, it was about this level.
03:43The thing that hit me is when you came to the part
03:47in your film,
03:51well, I mean, in your video,
03:53in reference to the smoke round,
03:56or whatever it's called.
03:57The ionized air plasma round.
03:59Yeah.
03:59Yeah.
04:00Well, it was something like this.
04:01Even though they don't provide
04:04classified documentation,
04:07when the seemingly respectable people,
04:10independently, all over the world,
04:12tell me the same kinds of stories,
04:15I can't dismiss it.
04:18So you get a hand,
04:20your finger on the pulse of what's going on
04:22when you do enough lectures in enough places,
04:25and because I come on so strong,
04:27they know I'm not going to laugh at them.
04:32Let's get rid of another myth.
04:34There are too darn many apologist-ufologists,
04:38because many people on both sides of the aisle,
04:41so to speak,
04:41have accepted the notion
04:42that most people don't believe in flying saucers.
04:45I have no idea why.
04:47I've had 11 hecklers in over 700 lectures,
04:49and two of them were drunk.
04:52You're going to get that many
04:53if you talk about religion, sports, politics.
04:55There's no big risk here
04:57in sticking your neck out.
04:59But people's actions are determined
05:01by their perception
05:03of what other people are going to say
05:05in response to what they say.
05:07It's okay.
05:09Here's several Gallup polls.
05:11They show not only that believers
05:13outnumber non-believers,
05:15the real over the imaginary,
05:18but that the greater the education,
05:21the more likely to believe in flying saucers.
05:24That comes as a real shocker.
05:26We at MUFON have our UFO evangelists.
05:29Stanton Friedman is my favorite UFO evangelist.
05:35When Dwight Connelly did his
05:37MUFON UFO Journal profile on Stan,
05:41his title was,
05:42Stanton Friedman Spreads the Word.
05:46Stan would make a great Jewish UFO
05:48Presbyterian preacher.
05:49An idea which newspaper people
05:56and Alan Hynek would say
05:57has a high degree of strange things.
06:04I was born in Elizabeth, New Jersey
06:07in 1934 at the height of the Depression.
06:11My dad was born in Chicago.
06:12His parents came over from Lithuania
06:14about 1900, 1901.
06:17My mother,
06:19her parents came from the Ukraine near Kiev
06:23around 1902, 1903.
06:28I grew up in Lyndon, New Jersey.
06:31First in the 19 years of my life.
06:34It was a working man's town.
06:35Lots of immigrants to do the dirty jobs
06:38at the factories.
06:39But back in the 30s,
06:41if you got a job,
06:42you were lucky.
06:43My dad stayed with American Cyanament
06:45for 37 years.
06:48I've been asked what it is
06:49that drives me to go after the details,
06:52the minutiae,
06:52to try to get things straight.
06:55And the best explanation
06:56I can come up with
06:57is something that happened
06:58in the fifth grade,
06:59if you would believe.
07:01I was a straight-age student as a kid,
07:04and I was in the fifth grade,
07:05and Miss Gutkin, our teacher,
07:07Rose Gutkin.
07:09One day in class,
07:10she's talking about astronomy,
07:12and maybe it was under the heading
07:15of science, I suppose.
07:17She said,
07:17the sun stands still,
07:19and the earth and the other planets
07:21move around the sun.
07:24Well, that hit me the wrong way,
07:25because I had just the day before
07:27read in our new encyclopedia volume.
07:30You bought one volume at a time
07:32at the supermarket for 29 cents.
07:35And I said,
07:35no, Miss Gutkin,
07:37the whole solar system
07:39is moving around
07:40the center of the galaxy.
07:43Well, she dressed me down
07:44in front of the other students.
07:45No, that's not right, Stan.
07:48That's not right at all.
07:50And she went on for a little bit.
07:52Now,
07:52I didn't say anything back.
07:54I never sassed a teacher.
07:55But I was hurting inside.
07:58I didn't much appreciate that
08:00when I was sure that's what I had read
08:01and the day before, no less.
08:03So, naturally, I went home
08:05and got the encyclopedia
08:06and brought it in the next day.
08:08And she read it.
08:09And she very reluctantly admitted,
08:12well,
08:13maybe that's the way it really was.
08:15Now, she didn't apologize
08:16for dressing me down.
08:17But I felt vindicated.
08:20But I also felt I learned a lesson.
08:23If I didn't want to be dressed down by people,
08:26I'd better have my facts in hand
08:29before I open my mouth.
08:31That may be one of the reasons
08:32I went into debating in high school.
08:33I certainly didn't realize it at the time.
08:38But my high school career,
08:39four years at Linden High School
08:40in Linden, New Jersey,
08:42did prepare me for my activities
08:45as a UFO investigator,
08:48as a lecturer,
08:48as somebody defending truth and liberty
08:50and all that stuff.
08:52I was on the debate team
08:54my freshman, sophomore, and junior years.
08:56We won a state championship.
08:58And one thing about debating,
08:59you have to learn to handle
09:00both sides of the argument
09:02because you never know
09:02which way you're going to go
09:04when the tournaments come up.
09:06And also, you have to get
09:08your facts straight.
09:08You can't make up things.
09:10It's sort of against the rules.
09:13But we didn't have a debate team
09:15in my senior year.
09:16And instead, I got into drama.
09:19I was in two plays in my senior year.
09:21I played a priest in a play,
09:24The Valiant Never Taste of Death But Once.
09:28I remember the line.
09:29And I got a real kick.
09:30And on one application for college,
09:32I remember they asked,
09:34what did you enjoy most in high school?
09:36And I'd done a lot.
09:37But I put down being in those two plays.
09:39And that was far more prophetic
09:41than I ever expected.
09:43Now, if you'd told me
09:44that I'd wind up spending my life
09:46lecturing about flying saucers,
09:48I'd have laughed my head off.
09:52I received my master's degree in physics
09:54from the University of Chicago in 1956.
09:56Two years later, in 1958,
09:58I was working as a nuclear physicist
10:01for the General Electric Aircraft
10:02Nuclear Propulsion Department
10:04near Cincinnati.
10:05I was ordering books
10:06from a mail order place in New York
10:08and needed one more book
10:09so I wouldn't have to pay shipping.
10:11And there was one,
10:12the Report on Unidentified Flying Objects,
10:14by United States Air Force Captain
10:17Edward Ruppelt.
10:18And then I stumbled across
10:20Project Blue Book's
10:21Special Report No. 14
10:22in about 1960
10:24at the University of California,
10:26Berkeley Library.
10:28And I was astonished
10:29because it hadn't been mentioned
10:30in any of the 15 books
10:31that I had read.
10:33And it not only provided me
10:35with tons of data,
10:36and I'm a data hound,
10:37I'll admit it,
10:38information on 3,200 sightings,
10:40240 charts, tables, graphs, maps,
10:42data heaven.
10:44But it also had the press release
10:46that the Air Force issued
10:47when the document was sort of released.
10:50It wasn't distributed,
10:51but they put out a huge press release
10:53all over the country.
10:54And that shocked me
10:56because it proved,
10:57once you looked at the data
10:58as I had been,
11:00that the Air Force was lying
11:01about the results of their study.
11:04And what's interesting
11:05is that nobody in the press
11:06made an effort, apparently,
11:08judging by the articles I've seen,
11:10to get to the truth of the matter.
11:13They were buying
11:14what the Secretary of the Air Force said,
11:16and that's terribly sad.
11:18And you know what?
11:20They're still buying
11:21what lies are being told
11:22by the Air Force.
11:25And that's really sad.
11:27And I was working
11:28on classified programs.
11:29I understand national security
11:31and how it works and so forth.
11:33But they were outright lying.
11:36That got my dander up.
11:38I later visited Project Blue Book
11:39many times.
11:41But that really began
11:42a 40-year quest now
11:45for the truth about flying saucers.
11:47I think I found it.
11:49The Secretary of the Air Force
11:50about this study,
11:51this is what the public heard
11:52all over the country,
11:53all over the world.
11:54We believe that no objects
11:58such as those
11:59popularly described
12:00as flying saucers
12:01have overflown
12:03the United States.
12:05Even the unknown
12:063%
12:08could have been identified
12:10as conventional phenomena
12:12or illusions
12:13if more complete observational data
12:15had been available.
12:16The problem is
12:17that the two factual statements
12:19in the Air Force
12:19Secretary's summary
12:21are both false.
12:24The unknowns were not 3%
12:26and they were not the sightings
12:28for which there wasn't
12:29enough information.
12:30I did a lot of reading
12:31and when I had moved
12:33to Indianapolis
12:34I got to know Frank Edwards
12:35who was quite a UFO researcher.
12:39And when he came out
12:40with his new book,
12:41Flying Saucers Serious Business,
12:42which became a bestseller,
12:44he sent me a copy
12:45in Pittsburgh
12:45where I was now working
12:47for Westinghouse
12:48Astronuclear Laboratory
12:49on nuclear rockets.
12:50read the book,
12:52decided I ought to do something,
12:53called Frank,
12:54he named some people
12:55I should talk to.
12:56One of them was a radio station
12:57in Pittsburgh,
12:58KDKA,
12:59one of the earliest
13:00big radio stations.
13:01I called them,
13:02they said,
13:03don't call us,
13:03we'll call you
13:04for a talk show.
13:06Somebody cancelled out
13:07at the last minute
13:08they called me
13:08because I lived
13:09near the station.
13:11Somebody at work
13:12heard me
13:12and asked me to speak
13:13to their book review club
13:15because they were looking
13:15at Frank Edwards' book
13:16and I did.
13:18That was my first lecture
13:19in somebody's living room.
13:21The first big college lecture
13:24was at Carnegie Mellon University
13:26there in Pittsburgh
13:27and only because
13:28I knew the wife
13:29of the guy
13:30who was the dean
13:31and he booked me
13:32and asked me
13:33how much I wanted.
13:34I figured I'd have to
13:35take half a day off work.
13:36It was a morning lecture.
13:38I said $100
13:39thinking he'd cut me down
13:40to $50.
13:41He said sold.
13:42Then he told me
13:43what he was paying
13:44the other people,
13:45$1,200,
13:45$1,500,
13:46$1,500
13:46and that led me
13:49to believe
13:49that I could
13:50make some money
13:51perhaps enough
13:52to support a family
13:53giving lectures.
13:55So when the bottom
13:56fell out of the
13:56advanced nuclear
13:57and space systems
13:58business
13:58as it finally did
14:00in 1969,
14:011970,
14:02I went full-time
14:04lecturing.
14:053,201 sightings,
14:07pretty good number.
14:08Project,
14:09a blue book,
14:10special report
14:11number 14.
14:12Now look at all
14:13the categories here.
14:14Miscellaneous covered
14:15a whole long list
14:16of things.
14:17This is really
14:17psychological aberrations.
14:20Very polite way
14:21of saying crackpot cases.
14:23You'll notice
14:23that those were
14:241.5%.
14:252% of the papers
14:27submitted to the
14:28American Physical Society
14:29by physicists
14:30are crackpot papers,
14:32they say.
14:33I think that means
14:34there are more
14:34crackpots associated
14:35with physics
14:36than with flying saucers.
14:39I like to use humor
14:40in my lectures,
14:42usually to poke fun
14:43at the nasty,
14:44noisy negativists
14:45to show things
14:46in a sort of
14:47ridiculous light
14:48on occasion
14:49as required.
14:50I don't go out
14:51and tell jokes,
14:52I'm not hitting young men,
14:54but I try to soften
14:55up the audience
14:56and for once
14:58get them laughing
14:59at the nasty,
14:59noisy negativists
15:00instead of those
15:01of us who are convinced
15:02that some UFOs
15:03are alien spacecraft.
15:05Oh, another group
15:06that doesn't want
15:07flying saucers
15:07to be real
15:08are the SETI cultists.
15:10S-E-T-I,
15:12silly effort
15:13to investigate.
15:16A cult is a group
15:17of people
15:18who have a strong dogma,
15:19charismatic leadership,
15:21strong resistance
15:22to outside voices,
15:24and boy,
15:24the SETI guys
15:25sure show that
15:26in spades.
15:28They don't want
15:29it to be real
15:29because who needs
15:30a radio telescope?
15:31There's real job security.
15:33Hello out there!
15:35You know,
15:3540 years later,
15:36hi there,
15:36what can we do for you?
15:38You pass the job
15:38on to your kids.
15:41They have no evidence.
15:43We got loads of it.
15:44But they say
15:45we're being unscientific
15:47and they're being scientific.
15:49He backs up
15:51what he's saying
15:52with, you know,
15:53facts.
15:54Like, he talks about,
15:55you know,
15:55the skeptics,
15:56you know,
15:57how they just believe
15:58because that's what
15:59they believe.
15:59They don't go to the facts.
16:00If you go to the facts,
16:02you know,
16:02the evidence is overwhelming,
16:04pointing towards,
16:05you know,
16:05the existence of
16:06some UFOs
16:08are extraterrestrial.
16:11Stan was a great
16:13representative,
16:13especially to somebody
16:14like myself
16:15who hasn't really been
16:16in the UFO community.
16:18You know,
16:18maybe from the outside
16:19you would think
16:20that this field
16:21is with a lot of
16:22sort of strange people
16:24or whatever,
16:25but Stan is extremely
16:27intelligent
16:28and articulate
16:29and I thought
16:29it was very interesting
16:30what he had to say.
16:31the arrogance
16:33of each generation
16:35of ancient academics
16:36and fossilized physicists
16:37is something to behold.
16:40Well, I'm trying to
16:41encourage the young people,
16:42just,
16:43you should respect
16:43your elders,
16:45but check and double-check
16:46and triple-check
16:47the assumptions
16:48that they're making
16:49to come to the conclusions
16:50that there isn't anything new
16:51because there is
16:52and there always will be.
16:53If you get younger people,
16:56that's what you need.
16:59You know,
16:59what's his name?
17:00Max Planck said,
17:02new ideas come
17:03to be accepted
17:04not because their opponents
17:05come to believe in them,
17:06but because their opponents
17:07die and a new generation
17:09grows up
17:09that's accustomed to them.
17:11It's true.
17:11One thing about the life
17:18I've been leading
17:19for the last
17:2030-some years
17:22in terms of
17:23almost full-time
17:24at lecturing
17:26is that the travel
17:27can be rugged.
17:29Now, some people say,
17:30oh, you travel
17:31all these exotic places
17:32must be great fun.
17:33Frankly, it's work.
17:35My longest tour
17:36was 25 lectures
17:38in 15 states
17:39in 35 days.
17:42And believe me,
17:43that was work.
17:44I watched spring come in
17:45in three different parts
17:46of the United States.
17:48And the thing is,
17:48I don't just lecture,
17:50but I do classroom visits,
17:52I do seminars,
17:53I do interviews.
17:55I've started some days
17:56at 8 in the morning,
17:58done five classes in a row,
18:00done three interviews,
18:01give a lecture that night,
18:02talk for an hour and a half,
18:04answer questions
18:05until a janitor
18:06kicks us out of the hall,
18:07go back to the motel
18:09by myself,
18:10get up in the morning
18:11to catch a plane
18:12at 6.30 or 7.
18:14That's work.
18:16And usually,
18:16I don't get a chance
18:17to see much
18:17of the towns I visit.
18:19Every once in a while,
18:20there's an extra day
18:21because I'm on the way
18:22to someplace else
18:23in a day or two
18:24where I do get a chance
18:25to look at things.
18:26But it can be lonely.
18:30It's amazing to me
18:31that he's been so persistent
18:32at staying with the task,
18:34which has been so frustrating.
18:36The work he's done
18:38in the Roswell case
18:39is required a tremendous amount
18:41of travel and investigation
18:43and going through records
18:44in which you get
18:45almost no results
18:46for a long time.
18:47And then you finally
18:48get one little clue
18:49and you try to get
18:50more information
18:51to back it up.
18:52And the energy it takes
18:54and the hope
18:55and the sustenance
18:56to keep going,
18:58that he has this energy
19:00to do this,
19:00just amazes me.
19:01Needless to say,
19:05I get a lot of phone calls
19:06from people
19:07about UFO sightings,
19:09about research projects,
19:10about ideas
19:11on propulsion systems.
19:13And I try to be helpful
19:14and it's funny,
19:16people are surprised
19:17when I answer my own phone,
19:18which I do when I'm home.
19:20They expect me
19:21to have a secretary
19:22and a whole coterie
19:23of people working for me.
19:25Who can afford it?
19:26I'm a one-man operation.
19:28I'm always surprised
19:29when people are surprised
19:30that I answer my own phone.
19:31I mean,
19:32who else is going
19:33to answer my phone?
19:35But I try to help people
19:37whenever I can.
19:39If they need
19:40reference information,
19:43they want to know
19:44all kinds of things.
19:45I've got a lot of
19:45research material
19:46around here,
19:47no question about that.
19:49So I try to encourage
19:50those people
19:51who seem to have
19:52a justifiable goal,
19:55an appropriate one,
19:56that fits in
19:56with my background
19:57and so forth.
19:59A good example
20:00is Chris Stiles
20:01when he first called me
20:02about Shag Harbor.
20:03Chris had just been
20:04watching the
20:06Unsolved Mysteries
20:08segment on the
20:10Roswell incident.
20:11And Stanton,
20:12of course,
20:13being the expert
20:14on it at the time,
20:15was on the program.
20:19And Chris thought,
20:20well, I'll try.
20:21And he looked up
20:22and he looked up
20:22his phone number,
20:23surprised to learn
20:24that he lived
20:24in Fredericton,
20:26New Brunswick,
20:26and transplanted American.
20:29And he called there,
20:30he got forwarded through
20:31to a motel
20:33in Dallas, Texas,
20:34because that's where
20:35Stanton was doing
20:35a lecture at the time,
20:37I guess.
20:38And talked to Stanton,
20:40and Stanton sort of
20:40gave him some leads
20:41about where he should
20:42start looking.
20:44And I guess we owe Stan
20:46the opening part
20:48of our investigation
20:48on how to get going
20:49on this thing,
20:50you know,
20:51with Chris and so on.
20:53Yeah, I find Stan
20:54to be a very
20:55tenacious researcher.
20:57He seems to be
20:58tireless in his research.
21:00He'll follow leads
21:03to the very end
21:05and try to squeeze
21:06every bit of information
21:07that he can out of it.
21:09UFOs are a thing
21:10that's very difficult
21:11to be purely scientific about.
21:13If your version
21:14of scientific is
21:15when you haul me
21:16a dead alien
21:16in front of me,
21:17I'll believe,
21:18you know,
21:19you may not bother
21:20with the UFO field
21:21very much.
21:22And so Stan has had
21:23to be satisfied
21:24with evidence,
21:26but not foolproof,
21:27in order to keep going,
21:28and he's done
21:29that very well.
21:31As a scientist himself,
21:33he's gone out there
21:34and put his professional
21:36career on the line
21:38years and years and years ago
21:39and went out there
21:40and said,
21:40you know,
21:40this has happened.
21:41I believe
21:42in the extraterrestrial hypothesis.
21:43These things
21:44are intelligently controlled
21:46and they're not from here.
21:47And he makes no bones
21:48about that.
21:49And he's been carrying
21:50that around
21:51in his shoulders
21:51and bearing
21:52a great deal of burden,
21:53I think,
21:53because of that.
21:55And you've got to respect
21:56a guy that gets out there
21:57and does that
21:58and yet backs it up
22:00with his scientific credibility.
22:05I think that he is careful
22:08in his scientific analysis.
22:10At the same time,
22:11he's not slow to offer opinions.
22:15Some scientists won't give you
22:17their opinions.
22:18Stan's more than willing
22:19to give you his opinions.
22:20When somebody tells you
22:21the only sightings
22:22that couldn't be explained
22:23are poor quality sightings
22:25by incompetent observer,
22:26they are not telling the truth.
22:30They should not be allowed
22:31to proceed without justifying
22:34that statement.
22:35and they can't
22:35because it isn't true.
22:38Stan Friedman
22:39was very much
22:40a major contributor
22:41to some really
22:42very, very important
22:44and contributed
22:46very, very important work
22:47to that kind
22:50of what you would think
22:51of as scientific ufology.
22:53Let's look at the phenomenon.
22:55What does the data tell us?
22:57What can we learn from this
22:58about our visitors
23:00if there are visitors
23:02and where they come from?
23:05As time went by,
23:07as Roswell came to the fore,
23:09as the abductions came to the fore,
23:10we found ourselves
23:11more and more focused
23:13on government cover-up
23:15and conspiracy
23:16and less on what the government
23:18was covering up
23:19and conspiring about.
23:20that is
23:21the UFO phenomenon
23:23and the data about it.
23:25And Stan moved into that
23:26into that
23:28that realm
23:29with a vengeance
23:31with Roswell.
23:32And he spent the past
23:33you know,
23:3320 years now
23:34really focused on
23:36things like
23:37MJ-12
23:38and government conspiracy
23:40and
23:41all of that
23:43and
23:43has done very little
23:45sadly
23:46on the kind of things
23:48that he was working on
23:48in the past.
23:49We're dealing with
23:50the biggest story
23:51of the millennium.
23:53Visits to planet Earth
23:54by alien spacecraft.
23:56Successful cover-up
23:57of the best data
23:58of bodies and wreckage
23:59for 54 years.
24:03Why don't we know more?
24:06It's the failure
24:06of the scientific
24:07and journalistic communities
24:09of the two major things.
24:12And of course
24:12those other forces
24:13that don't want us
24:14to know about
24:15globalization
24:16and being an Earthling
24:18and alien visitors.
24:21Lots of those forces.
24:25One of the issues
24:27that's very prevalent
24:28in the UFO community
24:29is the conspiracy issue.
24:31Granted,
24:32government does not
24:33release all information.
24:35But I also know
24:36from my own experience
24:37in the military
24:37that the government
24:38can't keep secrets
24:39very well.
24:41Ultimately,
24:42the stuff leaks out.
24:44Maybe not the documents,
24:45but ultimately
24:45it does leak out.
24:48And to this date
24:49there's been no real
24:50smoking gun
24:51that's come out
24:52of the information
24:52that has been released
24:54or that's been supposedly
24:55overheard by people
24:56that would dispel
24:58my beliefs
24:59that it's anything
24:59but a misinterpreted event.
25:01It took me five years
25:03to get one of the
25:05important CIA UFO documents.
25:09I want to show that to you
25:10so you'll see how much
25:11we learn from those documents.
25:16Yeah,
25:16there's five years
25:18to get that.
25:21Well,
25:21it's got a lot of information.
25:23It says title,
25:23doc reference,
25:24info date,
25:26string of numbers,
25:26USSR,
25:28and more numbers,
25:29and that's it.
25:29They're not holding
25:32back anything.
25:33Now,
25:33how could you accuse
25:34the government
25:34of keeping a secret
25:36from us?
25:38Stan is
25:38famous for flipping
25:41the blacked out pages
25:42and said,
25:43you know,
25:43what's going on here?
25:44Well,
25:44we now know
25:45that the reason
25:45they covered that up
25:46was not because
25:47there was UFO information
25:49in it,
25:50but because there was
25:52critical source
25:54information in it.
25:55The Soviets may
25:56determine based on
25:57some of the stuff
25:58released in that
25:59report where
26:00the information
26:01was gathered
26:02and it could
26:02adversely affect
26:04the person who helped
26:05in the gathering
26:05of the information.
26:08I don't know
26:08how much of this
26:09is a consequence
26:12of frustration
26:14after years
26:15and years
26:15and years
26:15of trying
26:16to tease out
26:18the answers
26:19from the data
26:20in hand
26:21and how much
26:22of it is
26:23a genuine
26:27belief
26:29that if we
26:30crack this
26:32cover-up,
26:33we're going to have
26:33all the answers
26:34so let's not waste
26:34any more time
26:35poking around
26:36with the data
26:37and doing all that
26:38rather boring,
26:39hard work.
26:40that I don't know.
26:44I suppose in some
26:45ways it's also
26:46more exciting
26:47if you're thinking
26:48in terms of cover-up.
26:50There's a kind
26:52of James Bond-ish,
26:55X-File-ish kind
26:57of aspect
26:58to it
26:58that makes it
26:59more fun.
26:59I met somebody
27:02once
27:03who let me in
27:04on a little secret.
27:05He had worked
27:06at the White House.
27:07He was a professional
27:08person
27:09and he had access
27:09to all kinds of stuff
27:10which he saw
27:11about flying saucers.
27:13And he told me,
27:14you know,
27:14they kill people
27:15for leaking stuff
27:16like that.
27:17And I believe him.
27:19But I can't live
27:20my life worrying
27:22about what the
27:23government's going
27:24to do
27:25and looking over
27:25my shoulder.
27:28I have made
27:29seven trips
27:30in the last three
27:30years to Roswell.
27:31It's a 200-mile drive
27:33from Albuquerque
27:34to Roswell
27:34and there's nobody
27:35there.
27:36Lots of nothing
27:37in New Mexico.
27:38And I give out
27:39my itinerary.
27:40I tell my answering
27:40service,
27:41tell people where I am
27:42and where I'll be going
27:43and all this kind
27:44of stuff.
27:45If anybody wanted
27:46to take me out,
27:47I had ample opportunity.
27:50If you're thinking
27:51in terms of government
27:52cover-up and conspiracy
27:53and intimidation
27:54of witnesses
27:55and all of that,
27:56that tends to validate
27:56your own importance, too.
27:58because they care
28:00about what we're doing.
28:02If you don't have
28:04that kind of attention
28:05from them,
28:07then who are you
28:09but just another
28:10bunch of folks
28:11that are interested
28:11in something
28:12that's slightly
28:12off the wall.
28:14Now, these guys
28:15got a sense of humor.
28:17This page says
28:18deny in toto.
28:21They couldn't find
28:23eight lousy words
28:25to declassify.
28:27Of course,
28:28there's a cosmic
28:29water gate.
28:30This is just the tip
28:31of the iceberg.
28:34There's no case
28:35that better illustrates
28:36that than the
28:37Roswell case.
28:39I knew that was
28:40important when I began
28:41the civilian investigation
28:42of it back in the 70s.
28:45I had no idea
28:47how important
28:48I do now.
28:51When you've got
28:51evidence that the
28:52government recovered
28:53not only a crash
28:54flying saucer
28:55or two,
28:57but alien bodies,
28:59that they set up
28:59an outstanding group
29:00of people to deal
29:01with that information
29:02and have kept it secret
29:04all these years,
29:05that's definitely
29:08a cosmic water gate.
29:10Roswell is important
29:13because it defines
29:15ufology both
29:16when it first
29:17happened in 1947
29:19but also the rediscovery.
29:20It tells us a great
29:21deal about the hidden
29:22nature of the UFO
29:23phenomenon and why
29:24it has been buried
29:25for so long.
29:26Once we understand
29:27Roswell, once we
29:28understand what
29:28happened at Roswell,
29:29we understand why
29:30ufology developed
29:32the direction it
29:33developed for the
29:34next 50 or 60 years.
29:36We understand
29:37what is going on.
29:38we understand that
29:40there was a necessity
29:42for hiding a great
29:44deal of UFO information
29:45and if Roswell
29:47had not happened
29:47in 1947,
29:48the whole history
29:49of ufology
29:49would have been
29:50different.
29:52Stan Friedman
29:53has devoted
29:54much of his life
29:55to attempting
29:56to establish
29:57a factual basis,
29:59an evidential basis,
30:01for accepting
30:02his view
30:03of what happened
30:04in 1947.
30:07He was the first,
30:08really,
30:08beginning in 1978
30:10to interview Jesse
30:13Marcel in a systematic
30:16way.
30:17He was the premier
30:19pioneer in constructing
30:22the Roswell myth
30:24and in doing so,
30:25he has become very
30:27comfortable in a certain
30:28vocabulary, in a certain
30:31way of talking about
30:32things, in a certain
30:34assurance about the
30:36sources and the like,
30:38so that he feels
30:40that his worldview,
30:43his particular point
30:44of view with respect
30:45to Roswell
30:46is true.
30:49The poster on the wall
30:51in Fox Mulder's office
30:52that says,
30:53I want to believe,
30:54is a representation
30:57of what happens to be
30:58the very real thing
30:59in ufology.
31:01People want very much
31:02for these,
31:03to believe whatever it is
31:04that happens to be
31:05their interest,
31:06aliens' visitation,
31:08abductions, etc.
31:10and unfortunately
31:12what happens is
31:14that this leads them
31:16to ignore facts
31:18that are inconvenient,
31:19that is, facts which
31:20are contrary to the
31:22things that they want
31:23to believe.
31:24Roswell is replete
31:26with this.
31:28Friedman is something
31:30of a romantic
31:31who is interested
31:35in good stories
31:36and in trying
31:39to explain
31:40what otherwise
31:41would remain mysteries.
31:44In the process
31:44of doing so,
31:45he and his colleagues
31:46have constructed
31:47really a marvelous story.
31:50It's a story
31:51of momentous happenings,
31:54of mysterious occurrences,
31:57of good guys
31:58and bad guys
31:59and that has
32:01a transcendental message
32:02that we are not alone
32:04in the universe.
32:07It's very interesting
32:09to see what has transpired
32:10in Roswell itself
32:12and what the town
32:14has done
32:14with the celebrity
32:16that has come
32:17with Roswell,
32:18the flying saucer crane.
32:21For a long time,
32:22there was a good deal
32:23of resistance in town
32:25to the idea
32:26that they should
32:27in any way
32:27try to exploit
32:28it or take advantage
32:29of it.
32:31But Max Littell
32:32and Glenn Dennis
32:33and Walter Haught,
32:34three founders
32:34of the International
32:35UFO Museum
32:36and Research Center
32:37in Roswell,
32:40pressed ahead anyway
32:42and over time,
32:44people began
32:45to realize
32:46that this was
32:46an opportunity
32:47to have people
32:49not only come to
32:49or pass through
32:51Roswell
32:52on their way
32:52to Carlsbad Caverns
32:53and the like,
32:54but to stick around
32:55for a couple of days.
32:58I've been
32:59to Fatima
33:00and Lourdes
33:01and to Jerusalem
33:02and to one
33:04of the great
33:04shrines of the Lord
33:05Shiva
33:06in Nepal
33:07and I prefer
33:10what I saw
33:10in Roswell.
33:11I was in Lourdes
33:13during the festival
33:16of the Assumption
33:16of the Virgin
33:17and it was very
33:19impressive
33:19and hypnotic really.
33:23But I didn't have
33:24anywhere near
33:24as much fun
33:25as I did
33:26in Roswell.
33:27One of the things
33:28that constantly
33:29happened in Roswell
33:31was people
33:31would turn to us
33:32and constant theme,
33:36constant question
33:36that was being asked
33:37again and again
33:38was,
33:39do you believe?
33:40Are you a believer?
33:42People would introduce
33:43I'm,
33:43hi,
33:44I'm so-and-so
33:45from Duluth
33:46and are you a believer?
33:49And many,
33:50many people
33:51replied,
33:53yes,
33:53I'm a believer.
33:56When we started
33:58on this idea
34:00of having
34:00a UFO museum,
34:03Stan Friedman
34:04was the first one
34:06that helped us out.
34:07He still helps us out.
34:11He's been so involved
34:13in so many
34:15different places
34:16that his knowledge
34:17is so far beyond
34:18ours here
34:20that we couldn't
34:21operate without him.
34:22And I hate to
34:24pat him on the back
34:25too much,
34:26but it has been
34:28something that
34:29has been
34:30of an absolute
34:32big operation.
34:37Everything that
34:38we've done,
34:39he's been in there
34:40and told us,
34:41do it this way,
34:42do it this way.
34:43And it's worked
34:45out just beautifully.
34:47I think this kind
34:48of dishonest,
34:49honest truthfully,
34:51dishonest representation
34:52of all this material,
34:58bogus and otherwise,
34:59by Roswell,
35:01it further
35:03brings down
35:06the field
35:08of serious
35:09UFO research.
35:10Because,
35:11again,
35:12it's one of those
35:12things that defines
35:13what UFOs are all
35:14about in people's minds.
35:17It's making money,
35:19it's a sideshow,
35:20it's parades
35:22and carnivals
35:23and fun
35:24and silliness.
35:26Not something
35:27serious.
35:28And to that extent,
35:29the skeptics
35:31are right.
35:32I mean,
35:32the ufology,
35:33unfortunately,
35:34is caught up
35:34in this kind
35:35of stuff.
35:35And this is probably
35:36one of the more
35:37dramatic examples
35:38of it.
35:39I was on a television
35:40program once,
35:41a town meeting,
35:43a Sunday afternoon.
35:44Every Sunday,
35:45this is out in
35:45Portland, Oregon,
35:47every Sunday,
35:48they ask people
35:48to phone in
35:49yes or no
35:50to a question.
35:51This week,
35:52the question was,
35:52you think the government's
35:53told us all it knows
35:54about flying saucers?
35:56And I was in the hot seat
35:57and they'd gone down
35:58to Roswell
35:59and so forth.
36:013,900 people called.
36:0492% said no.
36:07They don't think
36:07the government's
36:08told us all it knows
36:09about flying saucers.
36:11That's a pretty big
36:11lack of confidence
36:12and they couldn't
36:13all have been
36:14just UFO believers,
36:16if you will.
36:16I hate that term,
36:17but I'm stuck
36:19with using it.
36:19You know what I mean
36:20when I say it.
36:21So, yes,
36:23there is a pop culture
36:24side to all of this.
36:25One reason,
36:26incidentally,
36:26is a peculiar one.
36:28When I asked the people
36:29at the gift shop
36:30at the Roswell
36:31International UFO
36:32Museum and Research Center,
36:35there are a lot of places
36:36where you can buy
36:37alien-oriented stuff,
36:38you know,
36:39T-shirts and all the rest.
36:40Oh, all over the place.
36:42Many, many companies.
36:44Well, one reason is
36:44you don't need to pay
36:45royalties to anybody.
36:46At least the aliens
36:47haven't billed anybody
36:49for using their likeness.
36:52So,
36:53there's an interaction
36:55here.
36:58Pop culture tends
37:00to follow reality.
37:03Roswell gives it
37:05a face,
37:05a focus.
37:06The real problem I have
37:12is that time after time,
37:14these people have received
37:15so-called anonymous documents,
37:18anonymous letters,
37:20signed by individuals
37:22who ask that their name
37:24not be released
37:24or not signed at all.
37:26And they're using this
37:27as evidence
37:28to substantiate their claim.
37:30And that's a foolish way
37:31to do things.
37:32You know,
37:32that wouldn't go anywhere
37:34in a courtroom.
37:35You know,
37:35the court wouldn't even
37:36allow that kind of testimony.
37:37It's absurd.
37:39And yet,
37:40you know,
37:41I do wonder
37:41why people
37:42fall victim
37:44to these claims.
37:45You know,
37:45why does a person
37:46of high academic standing
37:49step over the itch?
37:53And I've also worked,
37:54oh yes,
37:54on the MJ-12 documents.
37:56There's a display
37:57about them back there.
37:59Most important,
38:00classified government documents
38:02ever leaked
38:02to the public.
38:03They tell the story
38:05of the establishment
38:08by President Truman
38:09of a group of 12,
38:12an all-star cast of people
38:14whose job it was
38:15to deal with the recovery
38:17of the crash saucer
38:18at Roswell.
38:20And they were
38:21an all-star cast,
38:22the first three directors
38:22of Central Intelligence,
38:24the first Secretary of Defense,
38:26six outstanding scientists.
38:29Well,
38:30after 11 years
38:30and visits then
38:31to 15 archives,
38:32I've been to 19 now
38:33and I'm convinced
38:34the documents are real.
38:36Once you have
38:37committed yourself
38:38to a particular theory
38:40or a particular set of,
38:42in this case,
38:43like Roswell,
38:44documents backing up
38:46the case and so on,
38:47it's extremely difficult.
38:49Once you've not only
38:50committed yourself to them
38:51but you've done so publicly
38:52that you have established
38:53a reputation on
38:55and that you've written
38:57about at length,
38:58that you've published
38:58books about,
38:59et cetera,
39:00it's extremely difficult
39:02to stand up and say,
39:03whoops,
39:04I was wrong.
39:06I believe
39:07that it was perfectly
39:08natural to suggest
39:09that the United States
39:10government set up
39:11a super-secret project
39:13similar to the
39:14Manhattan Project.
39:16Many different people,
39:17many different places,
39:18many different functions.
39:20Now,
39:21that was a thought.
39:22Well,
39:22in 1984,
39:23I was working with
39:26William Moore
39:27and Jamie Chanderet.
39:28They were still in California.
39:30I had moved from California
39:31to New Brunswick in 1980.
39:34I got a call from Bill
39:35that they had received
39:38a roll of film
39:39in the mail.
39:40On this roll of film,
39:42there were two sets
39:43of eight negatives each
39:45of a top-secret
39:48slash magic
39:49eyes-only document.
39:52One of the peculiar
39:55aspects of the documents
39:56was that it named somebody
39:58Dr. Donald Howard Menzel,
40:01a Harvard University
40:02professor of astronomy,
40:03as a member of the group.
40:04And my first thought,
40:05Bill read me the list
40:06on the phone.
40:08This is December 1984.
40:12And my first thought
40:13was,
40:14oh, somebody's pulling our leg.
40:15Dr. Menzel was the
40:16Phil Klass of his day,
40:18if you will.
40:18He was the champion debunker
40:20of UFOs
40:23during the 50s and 60s.
40:26He was a Harvard astronomer,
40:28very highly respected,
40:29absolutely rabid
40:33anti-UFO debunker.
40:36Anyway, he's included
40:37as a member of MJ-12,
40:39which, of course,
40:40many people said,
40:41well, you know,
40:42that doesn't make any sense.
40:43Why would this debunker
40:44be a member of this?
40:46Well, Stan started digging,
40:48discovered that Menzel
40:49had this history
40:49of working for
40:50the National Security Agency
40:51as a cryptanalyst
40:53and so on,
40:54and decided,
40:55well, this shows
40:56that he had this secret life
40:57and that what his debunking
40:59was simply,
41:00it may have been part
41:01of the disinformation campaign
41:03of MJ-12
41:04or it was a cover
41:05for Menzel's real role,
41:07et cetera.
41:08But when you look
41:08at Menzel's history,
41:09it's clear that this is,
41:11you know,
41:12nothing that he did
41:12in the intelligence field
41:13had anything to do
41:14with UFOs.
41:15He was a cryptographer,
41:17taught courses on cryptography,
41:19code-breaking and stuff.
41:20Turned out he'd learned Japanese,
41:22which helped in the code-breaking.
41:24It turned out he did classified work
41:26for more than 30 companies.
41:29Turned out he had a top-secret
41:30ultra-clearance
41:31with the U.S. Navy
41:33and with the CIA.
41:35The particularly interesting angle
41:36is this.
41:36Menzel had a thing
41:38for mythical Martians.
41:41He doodled them.
41:42He made Christmas cards
41:44with mythical Martian scenes
41:45and funny little Martians
41:46running about.
41:47He made paintings of Martians.
41:49My friend Jim Mosley,
41:50the editor of Saucer Smear,
41:51has one signed to him
41:52by Menzel
41:53of this scene
41:54of buxom Martian maidens
41:56cavorting about
41:57the canals of Mars,
42:00et cetera.
42:00Anyhow,
42:02in the MJ-12 documents,
42:04we have Dr. Menzel
42:05cited as being
42:06the one person
42:07who strongly argues
42:10that the saucers
42:12are not from
42:12the planet Mars.
42:15I think
42:16that that was
42:19a kind of inside joke.
42:22And I think the joke
42:23turned out to be
42:24on Stan Friedman.
42:25My opinion
42:26on Majestic 12
42:27is the documents
42:29were created
42:29in the UFO community
42:30to propel specific people
42:32into the spotlight.
42:33And I have said repeatedly,
42:34and I'll say again,
42:35Stan Friedman
42:36is not a participant
42:38in the hoax.
42:40He is merely
42:41one of those
42:42who have been
42:43unfortunately caught up
42:45in the hoax
42:45and become a proponent
42:46of it,
42:47but he is not
42:47a participant
42:48in the hoax.
42:49The MJ-12 documents,
42:52as well as
42:53an allegedly
42:54supporting memorandum,
42:56the Cutler-Twining
42:56Memorandum,
42:57which was found,
42:59in quotes,
42:59found at the
43:00National Archives
43:01by Jamie Chanderet
43:02and Bill Moore,
43:03all of these things
43:06have one thing
43:06in common,
43:07that's Bill Moore.
43:07They all surfaced
43:08in one way or another
43:09through Bill Moore.
43:11Do I think
43:12there's any chance
43:13that Bill
43:13faked the documents?
43:14No.
43:15He didn't know enough
43:17of the minutiae
43:18to get all those
43:19things right.
43:21Yes,
43:21it's easy to say
43:22Bill was tricky,
43:23he did some strange
43:24things on occasion,
43:26but that doesn't mean
43:29he faked the documents.
43:31That which you want
43:32to believe,
43:32Francis Bacon said this,
43:34that which you want
43:34to believe,
43:35you more readily believe
43:36to be true.
43:38And so anything
43:38that comes along
43:39that offers proof
43:41or supporting evidence
43:42to back that up,
43:43you're going to buy into
43:44if it has the least
43:45air of credibility
43:47about it.
43:49How much did you say?
43:5125.
43:5225, yeah.
43:53It's a bargain.
43:54It's a bargain.
43:55With all due respect
43:59to Stan,
44:00I think that he
44:01jumped on
44:02the MJ-12 documents
44:03because they so neatly
44:06packaged up
44:09and supported
44:09what he had already
44:10decided was true
44:12about Roswell.
44:13Philip Klass,
44:18who has been
44:20attacking the reality
44:21of flying saucers
44:22for several decades
44:23anyway,
44:24he noted that
44:26in this Cutler
44:26Twining memo,
44:28the typeface
44:29was the large
44:30pica type.
44:31So he wrote me
44:32saying perhaps
44:33I hadn't noticed
44:33that,
44:34but the tradition
44:35at the White House
44:36and the National Security
44:37Council
44:37was the small
44:39elite type.
44:39And he had nine samples
44:40to prove it.
44:41And he challenged me
44:43to find any
44:43genuine letters,
44:44memos from the
44:45right people,
44:45right time frame
44:46or a number of conditions
44:47done in the same
44:48size and style type.
44:51He offered me
44:52$100 each
44:53for every genuine
44:54such item
44:55with a limit
44:56unfortunately
44:57of 10.
44:59And I sent him
45:0020 just to tease him.
45:02He accepted two.
45:03I think he thought
45:04he was home free.
45:06Once I got back
45:06from the Eisenhower
45:07Library,
45:08I sent him another 14
45:09and an invoice
45:10for $1,000.
45:11And he paid me.
45:15Here's the crazy part
45:16though.
45:17He'd never been
45:18to the Eisenhower Library.
45:19They have 250,000
45:21pages of National
45:22Security Council
45:23material.
45:25To generalize
45:26from 9 to 250,000
45:29is absurd.
45:31It's typical
45:31of the intellectual
45:32bankruptcy
45:33of the pseudoscience
45:35of anti-ufology.
45:37Find something
45:37to grab onto
45:38and who cares
45:39whether it's right
45:40or not.
45:42Stanton's been
45:42attacked
45:43almost unmercifully
45:46over the Roswell
45:48thing,
45:49which he continues
45:49to promote.
45:53It might be that
45:54Stan will turn out
45:55to be right down
45:55the road
45:56and everybody else
45:57was wrong.
45:58But Stan gets
46:00the word out there
46:00and a lot of people
46:01in the world
46:02know about ufology
46:03because of Stan.
46:04Right, wrong,
46:05or indifferent.
46:05People know
46:06Stan's out there
46:07and he's looking
46:08and he believes.
46:10You can't make
46:11an omelet
46:11without breaking eggs.
46:13Have I pleased
46:13everybody?
46:14I certainly
46:15have not.
46:18That's the price
46:19you pay.
46:21I had a father-in-law
46:22who said,
46:23when you're playing
46:23bridge,
46:24if you don't get set
46:25once in a while,
46:25you're not bidding
46:26high enough.
46:28So if you can't
46:29stand the heat,
46:29as Harry Truman
46:30said,
46:31get out of the kitchen.
46:32I can stand the heat
46:35and I will continue
46:36to do it
46:37as long as I can.
46:38And I hope
46:39my kids
46:40will appreciate
46:41that I've made
46:42a real effort
46:43to educate
46:44lots of people
46:45with
46:47A, a concern
46:48about how do you
46:49get at truth,
46:51B, a willingness
46:52to stand up
46:52and be counted
46:53when you've done
46:54your homework,
46:55and C, a recognition
46:57of how important
46:58it is
46:59if you can do
47:00something
47:01that helps society
47:02to do it.
47:05Don't hold back.
47:07Do I think
47:08the world
47:09is a better place
47:10for my contribution
47:11to it?
47:13Tough question.
47:14I'd say yes.
47:15How do you measure it?
47:17I don't know.
47:19Who speaks
47:20for planet Earth?
47:21There is a challenge.
47:24I don't know
47:25who it should be,
47:27but I think
47:28we do need
47:29to start acting
47:30like grown-ups
47:30instead of spoiled brats.
47:33See, on a bad day,
47:35maybe we can qualify
47:36for admission
47:36to the Cosmic Preschool.
47:39Thank you very much
47:41for listening.
47:42I'll be signing books
47:43outside.
Be the first to comment