- 1 week ago
The top focus of this episode of 5 Live is Delhi's severe air pollution crisis as the Air Quality Index (AQI) remains in the 'very poor' category.
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00:00Delhiites breathes toxic air
00:07AQI remains very poor
00:13Bataan natives fight and pass the buck
00:15Opposition wears masks, sirsa taunts
00:30Chinese embassy prescribes a pollution cure
00:38But people need real solution
00:44When will Delhi get breathable air is the top focus on India today
01:00This is 5 Live
01:02Delhi's air continues to be toxic
01:05Continues to slowly but surely kill us
01:08And what exactly are our politicians doing?
01:11They are saying it's not our problem
01:13We inherited the problem
01:15It will not be solved in 7 months
01:17But what exactly is the plan?
01:18Is there a 6 month, 1 year plan that you have in mind?
01:21And why are only Delhi ministers speaking about it?
01:24What about UP? What about Haryana?
01:26What about 60% of the country
01:28Which continues to breathe bad air
01:32Continues to choke slowly but surely
01:35All that and more on the programme today
01:37Our top focus also includes
01:39This is the last day to get your PUC done
01:42The only needle that has moved on pollution
01:45Has been the crackdown on vehicular pollution we saw yesterday
01:49But are you going to do your bit now?
01:51That and more, first up, the headlines
01:53Delhi continues to breathe toxic air
01:58Delhi government has now placed stricter curves for pollution
02:0150% work from home mandate for government and private offices there
02:05Construction ban order under Grap 4 in Delhi
02:0910k compensation for construction workers
02:12Meanwhile, the Environment Minister, Majinder Sirsa
02:16Blames Aamadni Party Supremo Arvind Ketriwal for the air pollution
02:20He also urged people to update their PUC
02:23The Supreme Court has issued a notice to the National Highways Authority of India
02:29The NHAI regarding the traffic congestion caused by toll plaza on the borders of Delhi
02:34The Centre, meanwhile, has released new norms for social media and OTT platforms
02:40OTT content to remain outside the censor board jurisdiction
02:45Game over for Lutra Brothers
02:50The Killer Brothers have now been produced in court
02:53They will be grilled by Goa police next
02:55Congress Neta insults Army's Operation Sindhoor
03:02Bala says India defeated on day one of Operation Sindhoor
03:07Questions need for army of 12 lakh soldiers Shinde then attacked
03:12Chavan says Congress speaks Pakistan's language
03:16Rahul Gandhi has now mocked India's manufacturing on foreign soil
03:23Rahul Gandhi says India's manufacturing declining must grow
03:28News from Maharashtra then
03:35An exclusive scoop on the Mahayuti seat-sharing talk
03:38Strategic alliance
03:40Friendly fights for Mahayuti
03:42Sena now bargains hard for 125 of the 227 BMC seats
03:47Remember, BJP eyes on 140 to 150 seats in Mumbai's civic body
03:52Congress ups the ante against BJP after relief to Gandhis in the National Herald case
04:00The party demands Prime Minister Modi and Home Minister Shah's resignation
04:04BJP demands and sort of goes in to remind them that this isn't the final verdict
04:09And finally, Ishaan Khattar and Vishal Chetwa's homebound has been shortlisted for the prestigious 98th Academy Award in the Best International Film category
04:22Karan Johar reacts to their development says he's over the moon
04:26For anybody who's seen the movie, it's a must watch
04:28It's a must watch
04:33Alright, this is no longer just a winter problem
04:36And it's no longer just Delhi
04:38Hazardous air, dense smock, rising respiratory illnesses
04:42Today, nearly 60% of India is breathing air that doctors classify as unhealthy
04:49From the national capital to smaller cities and towns
04:53Toxic air has become a year-round public health crisis
04:56But Delhi remains its most visible epicenter
05:00And yet, halfway across the world, there's a reminder that this crisis is not irreversible
05:06China's capital Beijing, once known globally as the smock capital of the world
05:11Has managed to significantly improve its air quality in just over a decade
05:14We know that already by now
05:16And as Delhi's sort of air stayed in the severe category
05:20For the most of the week, China Embassy in Delhi
05:24Stepped in with an offer to help
05:27In an extensive post on X
05:29And let's put that up on our screen as well
05:31Chinese Embassy spokesperson shared before and after images of Beijing
05:34Outlining the steps China took to clean up its capital
05:37Noting that both India and China have faced the same challenges of toxic air
05:42Amid rapid urbanization
05:44The subtext here was unmistakable
05:47The science is known
05:48The playbook exists
05:50What matters is actually execution
05:52Will India do it?
05:54Also, will India take China's help?
05:56But what's happening back home?
05:58Back home, vehicular pollution remains one of the biggest contributors of Delhi's smock-choked air
06:04India did move to cleaner fuel standards
06:07All vehicles manufactured after April 1st, 2020
06:11And mandated to meet the BS-6 emission norms
06:14But policy on paper has not always translated into enforcement on the road
06:19Remember that?
06:20So we'll try and find out how that is going
06:22That's where today becomes crucial for Delhi commuters
06:26Because please listen to this carefully
06:28From tomorrow
06:30Vehicles without any valid pollution under control certificate
06:34What we popularly call as PUC
06:36Will not be allowed to refuel in the capital
06:40No PUC means no petrol, no diesel
06:44Fuel stations will deny service to non-compliant vehicles in a hard enforcement step
06:49Not an advisory
06:52At the same time
06:54Entry restrictions remain in force
06:56Only BS-6 compliant vehicles are allowed in Delhi
06:59While older, more polluting vehicles continue to be barred under the current anti-pollution curves
07:04Now remember, this is one of the rare moments that we've seen
07:09Where intent is being matched with action
07:12Words are being matched with action
07:14Finally, something has been done
07:17But whether this becomes a turning point
07:20Or just another temporary clampdown
07:22After the booing of the Delhi Chief Minister happened
07:26Will all of this fade away once the smog lifts?
07:30That depends entirely on enforcement
07:33So first up on the programme
07:35Let's get you a view on that with our reporters
07:38Joining me next is Shivani Sharma and Anmol Bali
07:41Anmol was there at the press conference as well
07:44Both of them outside a PUC station
07:46Shivani, I want to come to you first
07:48Today is the last day to actually get your PUCs in place
07:52Otherwise from tomorrow no fueling will take place
07:54Is what the Delhi government is saying
07:56Has that message gone across?
07:59I'm wondering if there are long lines today outside PUC
08:03What exactly are the people there telling you?
08:05Sonal, I'm right now at one of the pollution checking centres in Delhi
08:15And I was speaking to the person who's giving these certificates
08:18He told me that what happens every day is that 10 to 12 cars come for pollution checking certificates
08:24But today what has happened is around 30 to 40 cars had come
08:28And still vehicles are coming here
08:32And not only for the pollution certificates but also to get the fuels here
08:36And in a number of petrol pumps too
08:39So the enforcement that has now come into being is hopefully going to make some change
08:45Because these rules under GRAP 4
08:49They also need to be enforced strictly
08:53But yes you can see the cameras out here also which have been put here
08:57So everything will be noted and recorded
09:01And no vehicle will be getting any fuel without the compliances
09:05Without the pollution checking certificates
09:07They have to show those certificates first
09:10And these petrol pumps are also preparing for that enforcement
09:14Sonal in the national capital
09:16Because national capital suffers the most with the highest AQIs and poisonous air
09:22So now we have to see what happens tomorrow
09:24We'll come again and see and get a reality check on the petrol pump
09:29But certainly on the pollution certificates
09:32People are coming, they are taking their certificates
09:35And since this announcement was made
09:37There have been certificates that have been issued to people
09:41And they are still coming here
09:42A little while ago there were a few vehicles here
09:46Who were getting checked and who were getting their pollution certificates
09:49And this will continue
09:51Because from tomorrow there will be strict compliance as per the government
09:55None of the vehicles will be getting their fuel without these certificates
10:00And the BS6 vehicles are only authorized to be out
10:04So that is a step that has been taken by the government
10:07But we have to wait and watch what kind of impact
10:10It brings to the people in the national capital
10:13Got it, Anmol Bali is also with us
10:15Anmol, let me come to you
10:17And correct me if I am wrong
10:18This applies only to Delhi
10:20That means you could still go to a Gurgaon or a Noida
10:23To get fueling done
10:25If you don't have a PUC
10:27This also only applies to Delhi in the case of BS6
10:30That means again the satellite towns can easily be exploited
10:34Since they believe like they are breathing as if some other air
10:38Also Anmol, help me understand how easy or difficult is it to get away with a false PUC these days
10:44So Anmol, as you know the national capital is currently backing with the worst pollution crisis
10:52Where the AQI has surpassed the very poor and severe category mark
10:55And various measures have been employed by the Delhi government
10:58To curb the detroiting AQI national capital
11:01And yesterday it was seen that Delhi's Environment Minister Manjinder Sirsa has told media person
11:05That people without PUC certificates will not be getting fuel at the petrol pumps
11:10You have talked with one of the person who gives certificates to the people
11:16Those who come here for the PUC
11:18He said that average he used to give around 40 certificates
11:21But now he is having around more than 60 to 70 customers daily
11:25He is also hoping that the number will increase
11:27So this is what Delhi government has proposed to curb the pollution in the national capital
11:31But yes, this is only applicable for the Delhi today
11:35While talking with media, Inder Sirsa also explained that he will be having a meeting with people
11:40With the Patrol Pump Association
11:42Those who are requesting government to stop this measure
11:45They are also requesting government to apply these measures to the other satellite cities
11:49Like Noida, Ghaziabad and Gurugram also
11:51Because Delhi's AQI detroiting is not only Delhi's problem
11:56It's a problem for the whole NCR region
11:58Where Minister has also told the media person that he is talking with the other state government
12:03The neighbouring cities also to control pollution there
12:05So that could directly impact the AQI in the national capital
12:08So various measures as government has said they are taking
12:11They have also said they are hoping in Google maps
12:13To know about the hotspot and work on the hotspot
12:16Where AQI is more bad as compared to the other parts of the national capital sooner
12:20Right, I would like to go back to Shivani on this one
12:22And get another perspective if we still have her
12:24Shivani, I...
12:26You know this is a step
12:28Actually the first step in the right direction that we've heard in months
12:32Actually getting down and attacking the largest pollutant
12:36Which is vehicular pollution in the capital
12:39But could you give us a sense of how easy will it be for these petrol stations
12:46These fuel stations to actually say no to clients
12:50Say no to money on the basis of PUC
12:52And who's actually looking after the execution here?
12:56Sonal, as I was telling you that there are proper cameras that have been installed on each and every petrol pump in the national capital
13:08And the enforcement will include that each and every car that comes here
13:14That will be showing its PUC and only then the vehicle will be getting the fuel
13:18At least here where I am present and I have been to a number of petrol pumps
13:22We see that there are some cameras installed
13:24So everything will be monitored
13:26That's what at least the government is saying
13:28That they will be monitoring and the enforcement will be at place
13:32They will be making it strict
13:34And action will be taken if these petrol pump people do not comply with this rule
13:40But certainly we need to do some reality checks once this gets into implementation
13:46That whether it is actually being done on ground
13:50Because we've been seeing Sonal in past few days
13:53There have been no strict compliance or no strict implementations of the rules and regulations
13:59So the enforcement is the key
14:01The enforcement needs to be done
14:03And from tomorrow when this rule comes into being
14:06We'll have to see that whether what has been claimed by the government is actually being followed or not
14:11But certainly the petrol pumps have done their bit
14:14They have their cameras installed
14:16They are ready
14:17And from tomorrow they will be checking the PUCs before giving the petrol to the people
14:23If I want to talk to you, will you see the certificate of petrol?
14:28Is this rule ready?
14:31Madam, when we have a rule, we are ready?
14:34Do you not know about this?
14:36Do you know about the PUCs?
14:38Yes
14:39The police have put the speaker on the phone
14:44He will come to his voice
14:46And he will come to his voice
14:47And he will come to his voice
14:48And he will come to his voice
14:49And he will come to his voice
14:50So there are detection cameras that have already been installed on the petrol pumps
14:55And directly, if there is no compliance, that camera will make a sound
15:00And then these people will not be giving fuel to them
15:03That's what they are saying
15:04So they are prepared
15:05The installations have been done
15:06But again, we have to see on ground
15:09How strictly these compliance are being followed
15:13And how they are impacting the air quality in Delhi
15:16All right, that's an excellent idea
15:19If enforced, correct
15:21And if, sort of, it actually happens
15:23I am going to urge Anmol also to try and speak with a couple of petrol people over there
15:27And let's get an idea if they have any
15:29Sort of, they are up to speed with what's happening
15:31Meanwhile, we've got some reactions also coming in
15:34Of Dhilliwalas on what they feel about the PUC certificates
15:37No PUC, no fuel
15:39No PUC, no petrol
15:41No PUC, no diesel
15:43Take a look
16:07All right
16:08Good to see at least the younger lot there saying that they will try and comply
16:10But is that he is saying that only for the cameras will he actually get it done
16:13That's something we still need to eat
16:15And when it comes to the country
16:16So, Mr. Mhm
16:18There are the speaking conversations
16:19Here, these were the people of the country
16:21At the back of the country
16:24No PUC, no gas
16:27All right
16:28Good to see at least the younger lot there saying that they will try and comply
16:32But is that, is he saying that only for the cameras will he actually get it done
16:35That's something we still need to wait and watch out for.
16:38But tomorrow, like we said, today is the last day to actually get your PUC from tomorrow.
16:42It gets underway, at least in Delhi.
16:45On that note, let me also bring in our guest now.
16:47Mohamed Rafiuddin, the program lead for CEEW, joins us next.
16:52Rafiuddin, I want to understand from you why this is so critical.
16:59Like I said in the beginning, the first time I'm actually seeing the needle move
17:03when it comes to some pollution measures being taken.
17:06We know by now that at least 50-60% of pollutants in the national capital,
17:11especially PM2.5, comes from our vehicles.
17:14More from two-wheelers and four-wheelers, of course.
17:17But with this step, what exactly are we expecting?
17:23So, you're right when you said that a large share of the contribution comes from transport.
17:29But I guess, you know, PUC regime itself will not be able to solve this.
17:35Because the way to solve this is to actually have restrictive measures on vehicles,
17:42while also giving the people who are restricted to choose other forms of transport.
17:48For instance, having adequate public transport to cater to the demand that will be created by restricting these vehicles.
17:54Now, why I say the PUC regime itself is not sufficient is the PUC measures a very limited set of parameters.
18:01And it doesn't actually measure the particulate matter that's coming out of the vehicles.
18:06It looks at carbon monoxide and other constituents.
18:09So, there are plans to upgrade the PUC regime to a better regime, which measures particulate matter and other things.
18:17And the second thing is that PUC is a decentralized, you know, measurement system wherein you're going to a petrol pump and you're getting your PUC check, right?
18:28So, there's a lot of opportunity for you to game the system also.
18:32And sort of, you know, I would say I would go on to the extent to say manipulate the readings too.
18:41So, PUC I don't think is a proof system at the moment.
18:45It's obviously been upgraded.
18:47But unless you're restricting the vehicles on road, this problem is going to persist.
18:52But isn't BS6 as a filter a way to restrict vehicles on the road?
18:58Do you think that works?
19:00I understand it's only for Delhi and everything else, you know, continues as is.
19:05But do you think that helps?
19:07Yeah, definitely.
19:08See, BS6 is much cleaner compared to say BS4 and obviously several times cleaner compared to BS3.
19:14And the fact that India has actually skipped BS5 and leapfrog to BS6 itself, you know, a landmark thing that we've done.
19:22So, obviously, it's a stringent standard and restricting only to BS6 vehicles will definitely bring improvements.
19:29But the fact is that, you know, even BS6 vehicles, we have a lot of vehicles on the road.
19:35The volume itself is so high that unless you cut down this number also through some means and shift these people to public transport in some way,
19:46you're not going to see measurable reductions in particulate matter.
19:50Of course, there will be some reduction, but it will not be a drastic reduction in the particulate matter situation that you've seen right now.
19:56I see. So, I'm trying to put the whole picture together.
19:59You have PUC, you have BS6 restriction, you have 50% mandatory work from home, and you have hybrid for school.
20:08All of these put together in stage 4, which is graph 4 basically.
20:13Actually, everything apart from odd even has been applied now almost.
20:17Do you think we are still missing odd even right now?
20:22So, some countries have tried odd even and have found success. For instance, China, for example, tried odd even.
20:34And in Mexico, there was a famous program where people initially voluntarily let go of their cars once a week.
20:41And then it became like a mandatory program, government-backed program.
20:45And it also showed measurable reductions. So, the fact of the matter is when you're not putting 50% of your vehicles on the road,
20:52obviously, you'll see, you know, depth in concentrations.
20:57And that is something that we've also seen as a natural, you know, experiment.
21:02When COVID hit and vehicles were forced to get off the road, we saw drastic reductions in particulate matter
21:08and other constituents like nitrogen dioxide and other pollutants across the country, not just India.
21:15So, obviously, when you take out vehicles and reduce activity on the road,
21:19you will see measurable reductions for concentrations.
21:22And the current grab restrictions on, for example, mandating work from home play a role in enabling that.
21:2950% though, actually, yeah.
21:30Yeah, but play a role in enabling that.
21:32Like, for example, if a lot of private companies ask their staff to work from home,
21:36then you're reducing an unnecessary commute,
21:39either in their, whether in their private vehicles or, you know, burdening the public transport system,
21:45which is already stretched, right?
21:47So, that will bring down concentration levels.
21:51But it cannot be like a temporary measure that's like put in and then taken off.
21:56So, we need to figure out how we are going to make it a long-term measure
22:00so that we have sustained reductions instead of, say, piecemeal reductions.
22:04I think that's an excellent point.
22:06Are you suggesting then that we move to BS6 throughout the year?
22:11And we move to BS6 across North India?
22:15Not just Delhi, but knowing fully well that the air we all breathe does not have borders.
22:21And it's not like Delhi lungs are different from, you know, a human being in Noida or Gurgaon.
22:27Do you think that's where we need to go to for a sustained effort to bring down vehicular pollution?
22:33So, it cannot just be BS6. Obviously, it has to also include electrification.
22:38Yes.
22:39For example, there is opportunity to electrify your commercial fleet.
22:44Your small transport that happens within the cities through the light commercial vehicles.
22:49They can obviously be electrified and the technology is already available.
22:53The technology is already available for two-wheeler electrification, for example.
22:58And we've also seen a lot of electric cars on the road.
23:01The objective, obviously, is to move towards cleaner fuel, but at the same time, look at how we can accelerate the electrification.
23:08So, ultimately, when you move all the vehicles to electric, then all your tailpipe emissions are gone.
23:14So, now you'll have to deal with other forms of pollution, like for example, you call it non-exhaust emissions.
23:19That's the dust that's getting resuspended in the air to the vehicular movement.
23:23But that's a different problem to solve altogether.
23:25But at least if you want to reduce your tailpipe emissions, one, you'll have to move as much as possible to electrification.
23:31Where electrification is not possible, you'll have to move towards cleaner fuel standards like BS6.
23:36And we'll probably see BS7 also in the future, coming in one or two years.
23:41Okay, last question really, Mohamed, I want to understand from you.
23:44Today, the government, there were meetings today that were held at the national level as well.
23:49We are made to understand that Delhi Environment Minister was also called in, there were meetings, etc.
23:54But for me, the issue is largely that we are not engaging with other states.
24:01We are not engaging with a Haryana and a UP and a Rajasthan and a Madhya Pradesh.
24:08All of them put together and then talking about, in fact, even our metros, where again the issue is of vehicular pollution, of construction, etc.
24:19Today, if vehicular pollution were to be looked at in isolation, just fixing that one piece of the puzzle,
24:27is that going to be good enough to at least better the air by say 20%, 30%?
24:34Is that, that ballpark, does that make sense?
24:38Right. So, if you look at the numbers, in winter, according to the Air Quality Decision Support System,
24:44Delhi's own vehicles, Delhi's own transportation sector contributes to 14% of the air pollution.
24:50Now, here we are including NCR sources and Delhi sources together.
24:54Now, if you just look within Delhi's…
24:55Transportation sector, you mean only like buses and other vans and other trucks, etc.
25:01All vehicles.
25:02All vehicles.
25:03Commercial vehicles, private vehicles.
25:04Okay.
25:05Okay.
25:06So, if I just zoom into Delhi's own boundaries, I don't look at sources from outside.
25:11If I just look at that pie, then within that pie, transportation contributes to 50% of Delhi's PM 2.5.
25:19So, solving the problem within Delhi itself can give you a lot of gains.
25:24But like you said, coordinated effort across states, right, will get us the gains faster.
25:31The reason is, the vehicles that are registered in Haryana, the vehicles that are registered in UP,
25:36they come from Noida, they come from Gurgaon, into Delhi, there's free movement 2 and 4.
25:40So, it's not like you can solve the problem only within Delhi and expect gains,
25:44because you have to solve it NCR-1, which is why the CAQ makes this to coordinate between all these states
25:50and have a coordinated plan that works for all these states.
25:54So, solving for transportation itself can definitely give you that 20-30% gain that you're talking about.
26:02That reduction can definitely come from this sector alone.
26:06Right.
26:07So, well, I think that for me is the silver lining.
26:10If you're able to just, because it's a mammoth task to solve for India's air, right?
26:15It's a mammoth task, because we're a complicated country with lots of little things to sort of take care of.
26:21We are spread across, you know, different working class groups and, you know, it's difficult to enforce
26:27at the cost of somebody's livelihood, at the cost of kids staying at home,
26:31at the cost of, you know, people not leeching work.
26:34So, in case, if this one piece of puzzle can be solved, we would have solved at least 20% of the pollution problem.
26:42The question now is, Beijing is offering help.
26:45Our experts are telling us this.
26:48Will the government act?
26:51That's the one-point agenda that we really want to see.
26:53For the moment, I'll thank you for joining us for the very latest.
26:59All right, talking about implementation, smog and fog, like we said,
27:02continues to be major challenges for the national capital.
27:05However, today the city got a mild respite from air pollution,
27:08with AQI now in the very poor category, no thanks to any measures, by the way,
27:12all thanks to the wind speed.
27:14Meanwhile, the only speed which is not catching up is our politicians
27:19who continue to spar over the issue.
27:22It is not my problem.
27:23It is the previous government's problem.
27:25This is what I have inherited.
27:27This we heard when there were different parties in power in neighbouring states,
27:32and this we continue to hear when it's the same party across all states and centre.
27:37So what's happening?
27:39Here's the politics of pollution.
27:41Delhi is choking and its politicians are busy in a blame game.
27:53After two days of severe air pollution, the national capital on Wednesday got a mild respite,
28:00with the AQI improving to the very poor category.
28:04In the past 24 hours, because of the wind speed, the air quality index in Delhi and the adjoining cities
28:11have reduced to a large extent.
28:13Again, in terms of when Delhi was reporting 400 plus AQI,
28:18now it is actually at 329, which is very poor category,
28:23and that too is considered not good for your lungs and for your family members.
28:30That's what Delhi looks like on 14th and 15th of December.
28:34The AQI was in severe category, and now if you look at the numbers,
28:39many of the Delhi AQI stations are still reporting AQI above 350.
28:47The opposition is targeting the BJP government in Delhi over the issue.
28:51The AQI was in an over-the-date country.
28:52If you are president of Delhi's organisation,
28:54it's about 6-7th and a half months of government.
28:55This chair is a chair of the state.
28:56The chair of the individual government in the United States is a chair of the state.
28:57Undercise the chair of this state,
28:59which the mandate should be that it should be one of 12 years.
29:00And the leader of the state of the room,
29:01keep working on the system.
29:02Today you have an innovative state of the government
29:04and that you have a one.
29:05You have to work for this meeting with respect.
29:06Your leadership and strength of the state are still to do this,
29:08we have to be prepared for the吗.
29:11Several opposition leaders were seen wearing masks in parliament over the last few days.
29:30State Environment Minister Manjinder Singh Sirsa accused them of hypocrisy but admitted
29:35that air quality remains a challenge.
29:41The Delhi government has taken several measures to curb pollution including 50% compulsory work
30:10from home, a ban on all construction activities and denial of fuel at petrol pumps without
30:16a valid pollution certificate and a ban on the entry of non-BS6 vehicles from other states.
30:22Amed all this, the Chinese embassy in Delhi has offered advice on how to tackle pollution.
30:28In a post on X, the Chinese embassy said that cleaner air does not happen overnight and suggested
30:34a phase-out of high-emission vehicles.
30:36With Ahmed Bhardwaj, Bureau Report, India Today.
30:40All right, the politics of pollution.
30:45That's the sad question we have to debate today.
30:48But joining us next are representatives from BJP, the Congress and the Amadhi Party.
30:54Joining me from the BJP is Neoma Gupta, spokesperson and lawyer.
30:57Dr. Aneka Mehrotra joins us from the National Spokesperson for the Congress Party and Siddharth
31:03Sharma, Amadhi Party Spokesperson over there.
31:05BJP is the party in power, so I have to begin by asking you, Neoma Gupta, that earlier when…
31:11Good evening.
31:12Good evening, ma'am.
31:13Thank you so much for joining us.
31:15Earlier, when I was doing the exact same issue, which by the way, we've been covering
31:20for the past decade.
31:21Right.
31:22When AQI was not a household name, we've been covering this issue since then.
31:27But the sad trajectory is that then the Amadhi Party government in power said that, listen,
31:33Delhi cannot fix this problem alone.
31:35We need help from Punjab.
31:37We need help from Haryana.
31:39We need help from UP.
31:40And we said, fair enough.
31:42This can't be a problem that can be sorted by Delhi alone.
31:46But today, what is the excuse that BJP has?
31:50Why haven't we seen a national plan to clean air?
31:55Why don't we know that by 2030 or 35 or even 40 for that matter, you have an action plan
32:02in place which will clean the air for not just Delhi but 60% of the country?
32:07Good evening, ma'am.
32:09So pollution is a very big concern for us.
32:12And yes, right now we are facing comparatively a higher AQI.
32:16And Delhi government is working full throttle to reduce the impact of pollution which we
32:20are facing right now.
32:21Sometimes the weather conditions are not conducive and there are multiple factors.
32:25However, while some might say that, you know, there's politicization of pollution, but we
32:32have chosen now to take data driven decisions, tough measures, and I've shown no hesitation
32:37to impose curbs for public health.
32:39So today, as you're saying, why is there no action plan?
32:43I'd like to tell you about all the measures which we are taking, which we've actually started
32:47taking from the day we formed the government and which is an ongoing process.
32:52Right now things are more aggressive as the AQI is high.
32:55We spoke about those measures, ma'am.
32:57Yeah, yeah.
32:58We spoke about those measures.
32:59But can I underline that we've heard of these measures after the Delhi chief minister
33:04was booed at the Messi event.
33:07Before that, the environment minister was defiant.
33:10Before that, the environment minister said, hey, you compare it in the last year.
33:16Anybody who understands anything about AQI will say you cannot compare date to date.
33:20You have to see the overall number of bad air days, which are same if not worse.
33:25Okay.
33:26So just to tell you, we have been, as I said, from the word go, when it comes to road inspection
33:31drives, when it comes to water sprinklers, dust suppression systems, we have already been in
33:36place.
33:37Everyone living in Delhi has also seen him.
33:39Like small things, ma'am, like the potholes in Delhi, which are a major cause of dust accumulation.
33:44More than 18,000 potholes have been repaired.
33:472650 of road sites have been paved.
33:50All construction and demolition activities have been completely banned, including the highways.
33:55Now you're saying you're just doing steps right now.
33:57I mean, 96% of the industries have shifted to approved fuels.
34:01And the CAQM had like constituted a dedicated cell to track the real time source of emission from industries.
34:08This is not new, ma'am.
34:09This already existed.
34:10Ma'am, these are…
34:11What have you done on top of that?
34:13Ma'am, never were 18,000 potholes done.
34:15Never was 2650 kilometers done.
34:18Never were 96% of industries replaced.
34:20So don't tell me these things have happened overnight.
34:23Yes, right now, with the need of the hour, we have taken very, very aggressive steps when
34:27it comes to compliances, PUC certificates, only BS6 vehicles.
34:31See, ma'am, please understand, we are also here carrying a legacy of a lot of liability.
34:36Having said that, not wanting to politicize pollution issues.
34:40We are taking very concrete steps, like supposing legacy waste processing.
34:447,000 tons per day have been added.
34:47This couldn't have happened overnight or over the weekend or over the month of December.
34:50It's happened since the time our government came.
34:53We are very, very clear that pollution is a very big issue.
34:58And as you said in your previous, I think you were speaking to an environmentalist, if
35:02I'm not mistaken.
35:03Even when it comes to concurrent steps, like Haryana, for example, the farm fires have reduced
35:08a lot up to 65%.
35:10They are already, you know, like PNG, CNG pipelines are coming into play.
35:14UP, heavy diesel vehicles are being barred.
35:17Ghaziabad, Noida, municipal authorities are conducting regular anti-smog.
35:21Only for the last one week.
35:22Regular, I mean, okay, on the issue of farm fires, let me be very clear.
35:27We have now conclusive data that the numbers are being gamed.
35:30That there are, our own investigation done by the ACHTAK SIT team showed very clearly
35:36that farmers have been told the time of the satellite movement
35:40and that's when they plan burning off crops at some other time.
35:43So that's clearly established.
35:45As far as water sprinkling is concerned, we have seen, I went on the road to do a reality
35:50check.
35:51A lot of them were hovering around the meters.
35:52They were not on the road.
35:53And then there is anyways, very little evidence of what water does to actually PM 2.5.
35:58But let me move on now and bring in Aam Adni Party whose legacy you think you have been carrying
36:02on.
36:03Siddharth Sharma is here with us.
36:05Siddharth Sharma, I want to understand from you.
36:08For years and years, you have said that, oh, what can we do?
36:12We need help from BJP.
36:13Oh, what can we do?
36:14But even when you were in power and Punjab was within you, how did we see any constructive
36:19error?
36:20How is the BJP doing anything different from what you did, which was just, you know, pass
36:24on the blame?
36:25We didn't see anything constructive come out from your end as well.
36:28Why are you blaming them now when they are practically following the same playbook?
36:31Whenever there is a social emergency, universal emergency, there is no point in being adversarial,
36:40just like we saw in COVID.
36:41We have to fight this all together.
36:43And Aam Admi Party in Delhi has been given a mandate of being a constructive opposition.
36:48So as a constructive opposition, I'll first try to point out a few lacunas of what BJP needs
36:54to do and then what the possible solutions can be.
36:57And that's what a constructive opposition can do.
36:59Please only suggest what you could have done as well.
37:02Don't give them gyan now when they are in power.
37:05Tell me something that you did that BJP has not followed.
37:08Yeah, a simple thing.
37:11Aam Admi Party's government in Delhi when it was there for 10 years, it brought in electric
37:16vehicle buses.
37:17There are nearly 800 to 1000 flying right now in Delhi.
37:20Can BJP show that next door Noida or Gurugram both BJP ruled as even a single EV bus?
37:26No, they cannot.
37:27So that's the lacuna that I'm trying to point out.
37:29And this is not being, I'm not being adversarial here.
37:31That's Punjab.
37:32You have power.
37:33You are in government in Punjab.
37:34Are there EVs in Punjab?
37:36There's no need for EVs in Punjabi.
37:39Punjab is a rural area.
37:41And as far as Punjab is concerned, I agree to, I would not, that's why I'm saying, I'm
37:45not saying anything adversarial here.
37:47This is an India Today map of the entire India.
37:50And this is an India Today map, please remember.
37:52And you can see Punjab in the green.
37:54Punjab air is in the green.
37:55And the Delhi air is in the red.
37:57So farm fires have come down in Punjab.
37:58Good day you've chosen to show me the map, Siddharji.
38:01Good day you've chosen.
38:02Today the wind speed is nice.
38:03Today it's very poor.
38:04Good day to show the map.
38:05Good day to show the map.
38:06No, no.
38:07It is India Today's map.
38:08Sonal, it is India Today's map.
38:09It's not my map.
38:10The map I'm showing belongs to India today.
38:13And it is clearly showing Punjab in the green and Delhi in the red.
38:16So that's why I said I'm not going to get into any adversarial thing.
38:20The simple point here, Sonal, I think we also have to understand that if BJP is to be believed, there is no pollution, certainly not from Punjab.
38:30If it were, show me one public concern about pollution or Punjab from the honourable Prime Minister of India, Nada, Nil, Zilch.
38:38Plus, the Supreme Court, the LG and the CAQM have already given clean shit to a Punjab farmer.
38:45The Supreme Court is on record saying that during lockdown, the Punjab burned Parali but there was no pollution in Delhi.
38:51The LG is on record saying that 74% of the pollution of Delhi comes from local sources.
38:56The CAQM has said that Punjab has brought down farm fires by 95%.
39:00Now, coming to the solution point, it's very simple.
39:03The solution is very simple.
39:05Lies in Article 1 of the Indian Constitution.
39:07India is a union of states.
39:09BJP government needs to initiate an all-state, pan-India collective effort to contain this pollution.
39:15The more you centralise power, the more you suffocate yourself, release the pressure, decentralise power, make all stakeholders contribute.
39:22Governing India and an Indian cricket team are similar.
39:25It's a team game, not a Pradhanji's fiefdom.
39:29This entire fiasco is a result of the BJP ecosystem being politics heavy and policy light.
39:35There is no incentive on the BJP Sarkar to invest in policy.
39:38This is not just blood suffocation that we are going through.
39:41What we are witnessing is a policy suffocation of the BJP.
39:44Okay, I'll take your point.
39:45I'll take your point on a centralised governing body.
39:48And I know Onikash Mehrotra is also waiting, but I'll just come to you ma'am in a minute.
39:52I want to go back to Neoma Gupta.
39:54Why haven't we got a centralised body, Ms. Gupta, on this issue just yet?
40:00When, like I said, Delhi is yours.
40:03I mean, Haryana is yours, basically.
40:06The Mir is yours.
40:07LG elected by you.
40:09Central government by you.
40:10Now what is stopping you from getting a centralised body?
40:13If we as a country could fight Covid.
40:16If we could put in mechanisms in place.
40:18If we could encourage people to wear masks.
40:20Why?
40:21By the way, why haven't we seen a single advisory on wearing masks?
40:24Why aren't our leaders leading by example?
40:27Okay, first of all, there is high level review on air pollution with the centre and state.
40:33Okay, so please don't assume no work is being done just because everybody seemed to be rather cynical on this point.
40:38And over here, let me make something very abundantly clear because I have been cut off when I am speaking.
40:44The fight against pollution is happening on the ground, not on TV and social medias.
40:48Orders are being enforced, violators are being shut down and all this is happening all day.
40:53When it comes to coming and telling me, okay, every authority is under you, everything, work is being done.
41:00It's not easy to come and say all private and government institutions must implement 50% from work in another language.
41:07No ma'am, let me also speak.
41:10No ma'am, let me also speak.
41:11This is also an advisory.
41:12This is also an advisory.
41:13Okay.
41:14This is also an advisory.
41:16This is also an advisory.
41:17When it comes to things like BS-6 vehicles will only be allowed to enter Delhi from tomorrow, these are more than an advisory.
41:24These are strict measures which are being taken.
41:26And when it comes to things like even compliance of vehicles, we've given them multiple warnings.
41:31And now, which were happening over the last few months, and now it's like only valid PUC will get a certificate will be provided fueled.
41:39So these steps.
41:40Let's see how that goes.
41:41We'll do a reality check tomorrow.
41:42Yes, you please see how it goes.
41:43We'll see how it goes.
41:44Yeah, yeah.
41:45You please see how it goes.
41:46Dr. Ronika Mehrotra has been waiting and I want to go to her now.
41:49Dr. Ronika Mehrotra, we basically saw Rahul Gandhi, we saw Priyanka Gandhi raise the issue.
41:57They've been talking about it.
41:58They're saying let's discuss it, etc.
42:00But have we heard enough from them?
42:03My problem is that we hear them say, oh, let's talk about pollution.
42:07But the protests that are happening outside parliament are not on pollution.
42:11They are still on SIR and other issues.
42:13The opposition has the might at the moment.
42:16Parliament is on.
42:18They're all breathing the same toxic air.
42:23All right, one second.
42:24We have to cut across to parliament on that note.
42:28I have to cut across to the government.
42:31They're not throwing all you in the약s, right?
42:32We don't have to cut across to the government.
42:33He is with the opposition to the government.
42:34They are so, they are the ones.
42:35It's like, okay, you're doing something.
42:36If you're not with that.
42:37We will do something.
42:38I'll speak.
42:39You're around with the opposition.
42:40I can't say that.
42:41I don't know.
42:42Mr. Ronikaепri, our politicians, we have to cut across.
42:43foreign
43:13All right, that was a glimpse from the parliament where the changing dynamic of the rural scheme,
43:19which was run regal earlier, and now under a different name and a different scheme is being discussed.
43:23We'll cut across that, but let me go back to Dr. Onika Mehrotra.
43:26I want to understand from you, Dr. Mehrotra, what exactly has Congress done to raise this issue in parliament
43:33with more vigor than just saying, oh, let's talk about it.
43:37Ma'am, at the onset, let me tell you, it couldn't have been more disgraceful of a sitting chief minister
43:43to be booed at an international event, you know, and with chants of AQI, AQI.
43:48Why I say this? Because, you know, we believe in the word of the chief minister.
43:52When she said, this year, Delhi Ayes will not have to leave Delhi in the winters.
43:57And on the other hand, Sirsaji said, you know, in nine months' time, we can't do anything.
44:02Now, this is the rhetoric. They have been doing it.
44:04They have the MCD under them. They have the MLA's are with them.
44:10The centre government is there. Much could have been done.
44:13But it cannot be done only when the winter arrives.
44:16It is a 24 into 7 question.
44:18They knew very well that Delhi, for the last many, many years, have been battling this issue.
44:24And constantly there was a blame game of Haryana or the neighbouring Faizabad or Gurgaon or whatever.
44:29Whosoever might be ruling the state.
44:30It was very important to understand the issues.
44:33But despite that, it was only blame game.
44:36When the Aam Amdi was there, the LG never allowed them to work.
44:41But when Shilaji was there, she worked consistently with the commissioners, with the MCDs.
44:46And she gave numerous, you know, small little acts like Green Delhi, Clean Delhi, say no to plastic, say no to kerosene.
44:53But there is a reason Congress is not in power, no, today.
44:58There is a reason why people have lost their confidence in Congress as well.
45:01No, no, no, no. I am sorry.
45:02I am sorry.
45:02Ma'am, let me speak.
45:06Because the others spoke very well.
45:07When we were in power, the Delhi got the best award from US.
45:11Why? Because there was sapling plantation.
45:15Even though we built flyovers and roads and metros, we did as much as we could do for the connectivity.
45:22And we ensured the plastic, single-use plastic was banned.
45:25But nothing of those steps have been taken during these two regimes, be it Ahmad Mee or the BJP.
45:32The BJP claimed that give us the MCD, give us the thing, double-engine sarkar, triple-engine sarkar.
45:38Now you say, oh, it's the previous people's wrongdoing.
45:43And then the audacity of the chief minister who says, we send the MLA, they look at the mountain garbage,
45:50and they say, you have to go, you have to go.
45:53Ma'am, these are steps taken to help pollution to remove.
45:57Come on, have mercy on the people of Delhi.
45:59Not only that, the schools have been closed randomly.
46:04Now, at least, Congress has been...
46:06What do you mean randomly? They've been closed because it's too poisonous for kids to go to school.
46:10What do you mean randomly?
46:12How are they doing that?
46:12I don't think that's fair to say.
46:14I think we've been asking for schools to be shut, offices to operate at 50%.
46:17We want lesser people on the road.
46:19We want lesser exposure as well.
46:21Come on, you can't say that.
46:23They've been closed.
46:24That's not the alternative, but what do you do in the short term?
46:27But let me say this.
46:28I have to wrap it up now.
46:30I think the reason why people are so angry this time is because when Congress was given
46:40a chance, it failed.
46:41When Amadi Party was given a chance, it failed.
46:43People really looked up to BJP, gave it a massive mandate, only on the hope that with
46:50centers approach, they will manage to fix this problem, and we don't have a plan.
46:55That's why people are disappointed, and I think that's what we need to remember.
46:58Sadly, that's all the time we have, but we'll pick up this issue again tomorrow at 5 o'clock.
47:02See you then.
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