US offers 'NATO-like' security to Ukraine, expects Russia to accept

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00:00underway. The leaders of France, the UK and NATO are joining German Chancellor Friedrich Mertz,

00:05Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenskyy and US envoys. Zelenskyy said real progress had been

00:10made welcoming new security guarantees offered by Washington. That's after anonymous US officials

00:16told reporters that they expect Russia to accept those security guarantees, framing it as a

00:22possible breakthrough. Zelenskyy spoke to the press a couple of hours ago. Listen in now.

00:30There was enough dialogue regarding territory and it seems to me that for now we have different

00:37positions, I'll say it frankly. However, I think that my colleagues heard my personal position

00:43and I'm very glad that I was able to convey it. But everyone is ready to work productively.

00:52Let's bring in our correspondent Gulliver Craig, who's standing by in Kiev.

00:56Thanks for joining us, Gulliver. So is it possible to read kind of cautious positivity from the

01:02various sides in Berlin? Is that what you're seeing with these diplomatic talks as well?

01:10Well, we certainly see everybody trying to sound positive. The Ukrainians, of course,

01:14are trying to be as diplomatic as possible and not give the Americans any excuse to blame them

01:20for spoiling the talks. But you did hear Volodymyr Zelenskyy there saying that they

01:24still disagreed about the key question of territory. What does sound positive is this talk of security

01:31guarantees. The Ukrainians are saying that they want Article 5 style security guarantees from the

01:37United States. That means, as per NATO's Article 5, if there was another attack on Ukraine,

01:43if Russia reneged on the terms of a ceasefire or peace agreement, then NATO or the United States,

01:49maybe it would be just bilateral between Ukraine and the United States. But either way,

01:53in the same way as with the NATO Article 5, the United States would be expected to respond

01:58militarily. The Ukrainians have said that they want this to be voted by Congress in the United

02:05States. They're not going to take Donald Trump's word for it. Donald Trump has apparently,

02:09according to CNN, been saying that he is prepared to put that kind of security guarantee to a vote in

02:15Congress. But he said that he's not going to wait forever. And Volodymyr Zelenskyy did tamp down and

02:21down a little bit the expectations on that by saying that although they're working in very military

02:25terms and on the details of what these security guarantees would look like, it's still very much

02:29a work in progress. And until it's all set in stone, we can't, you know, say that it's really

02:35there. And what he also said, and this is perhaps the most important point, Volodymyr Zelenskyy said,

02:40that he did not know whether the Russians would accept the kind of proposals that they've been

02:45working on, the Ukrainians and their European and American allies. The reality is that the

02:50Russians have given every indication that they will not accept them. Yuri Ushakov, Vladimir Putin's

02:56advisor, as recently as yesterday, said that if the proposals have been changed and watered down,

03:01then it's going to be a no go for us. Yeah. And one of the sticking points there,

03:05as you mentioned, was the territory question, the Donbass. Russia wants Ukraine to seed land in the

03:11Donbass. Just explain that part for us. So I saw this very well explained by a Ukrainian military

03:21commander on one of the Ukrainian media sites today. He said, if you remember the battle for Avdivka

03:28in Donbass, it was a town that was basically the front line between 2014 and 2022. The Russians

03:35started their onslaughts, the full scale invasion in 2022. It took two years before they managed to

03:41take that town, which is right near Donetsk city. And the Ukrainian forces defending that town had

03:46holed up in the coking plant there, which is a huge, sprawling factory. And why he said this

03:54military commander is in Kramatorsk, there are 10 factories of that size. These factories provide

03:59huge defensive facilities. They've got underground bunkers. They're massive. They've got really thick

04:07walls. They are great strongholds. And Kramatorsk, which is a major industrial city in the Donbass,

04:13one of the two cities there, two main cities that Ukraine still holds, they're Kramatorsk and

04:16Slovyansk. Kramatorsk in particular, and to a lesser degree, also Slovyansk, are strongholds because

04:21they've got all of this industrial territory. And that's why from a military point of view,

04:26leaving aside the situation of civilians there, and leaving aside the principle of the thing,

04:30which is also, of course, very important, but from a strictly military point of view,

04:33unless the Ukrainians are absolutely sure that the Russians are going to be prevented

04:37from moving a step forward, they think it would be crazy to give up these physical strongholds.

04:44Got a crag there in Kyiv. Thank you, as always.

04:48Now, moving.

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