Belgian PM digs in against EU push to use Russian assets for Ukraine

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00:00EU defence ministers are holding a special meeting this Monday.

00:03The EU's top diplomat Kazia Kaya said it could be a vital week for Ukraine

00:07given the movement taking place diplomatically.

00:09Without directly stating she didn't trust Moscow and Washington,

00:12she stated she believed it's best that Europe is involved in negotiations.

00:16Trump's envoy, as we've said, Steve Wyckoff,

00:18heading to see Vladimir Putin on Tuesday in Moscow.

00:22This follows a weekend of tough talks towards trying to hatch a full peace plan.

00:27And so far, that is far from a done deal.

00:31Let's bring in Dave Keating.

00:33Dave, of course, our correspondent in Brussels,

00:35watching all events for us there.

00:37Dave, good evening to you.

00:38What's the latest word that you can bring us?

00:43Well, these EU defence ministers are meeting in the context, of course,

00:47of that meeting that took place yesterday in Florida

00:50between Ukrainian officials and American officials,

00:53which didn't really lead to any noticeable progress,

00:56although both sides came out of that meeting,

00:59said that they were moving forward.

01:01The key risk here for Europe, or the key reality,

01:04is that they have been really sidelined in this process.

01:07And so part of today's meeting has been to just try to give Europe some relevance

01:12in the process of this 28-point peace plan.

01:15Behind the scenes, though, most people have kind of lost the idea

01:20or the expectation that this plan is actually going to lead to a peace deal,

01:26because we seem to be at a point where Ukraine was not willing to accept

01:31the original offer that was on the table.

01:34They viewed it as coming directly from Moscow.

01:36Trump doesn't seem to have the leverage on Ukraine

01:40that he might have had a couple months ago,

01:41because he stopped most aid to Ukraine,

01:44and Russia won't accept an alteration of that original 28-point plan.

01:50So the ministers' meeting today in the EU are trying to figure out

01:54how they can maybe salvage those talks and find something workable.

01:59But I think in the end, the mood here in Brussels has shifted to definite negativity

02:05and a loss of any expectation that we could actually have a peace deal

02:10coming out from this current process.

02:12You mentioned in that answer, Dave, the idea that Europe is being sidelined in some ways.

02:17Washington basically regarding Europe as a whole

02:20as the place that will buy U.S. arms to supply to Ukraine, no more, no less.

02:28Yeah, that's the new system that we have in place now,

02:31because the U.S. has stopped arming Ukraine directly.

02:34Instead, it's having Europeans act as the middlemen.

02:38So European countries buy the American weapons,

02:41and then they send them to Ukraine.

02:43So then the U.S. isn't spending any of its own money.

02:46The European countries are spending money on American weapons.

02:50The key thing here is how Ukraine is going to get through this winter.

02:56They are in real trouble, particularly with the loss of U.S. funds.

03:00There had been this proposal to use the frozen Russian assets,

03:04150 billion euros, that was frozen at the beginning of the conflict,

03:08and give it to Ukraine.

03:10The problem is those assets are held here in Belgium.

03:13And the Belgian Prime Minister, Bart Deweyver,

03:15is really digging in his heels, saying that he thinks Belgium would be put

03:19in too much legal jeopardy if those funds were seized,

03:23because that could be ruled illegal.

03:25And he's saying that it wouldn't be all of the EU that's on the hook for that, legally.

03:29It would be just Belgium, and he doesn't feel that the EU is giving him

03:33strong enough guarantees that it would back Belgium in any kind of legal trouble

03:37or reputational trouble it would have as a result of that.

03:41So in the meantime, Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has tried to come up with

03:45a plan B of how the EU can send urgently needed funding over to Ukraine

03:50if Belgium continues to block the release of those funds.

03:54We did get some announcements today about new military aid coming from EU countries

04:01going to Ukraine.

04:02For instance, the Dutch minister said this morning that the Netherlands will send

04:07250 million euros in assistance over to Ukraine in weapons and other abilities.

04:14But that, of course, does not come anywhere near to being enough to make up for the loss

04:19of those frozen assets, which, for the past couple of months, it's been assumed that that

04:24was going to get Ukraine through the winter.

04:26Now that it's looking like Prime Minister Deweyver won't be backing down,

04:30they are trying to find other ways to get money over to Ukraine.

04:34Indeed.

04:34Hear what you're saying.

04:35Emmanuel Macron, though, in Paris, with Zelensky, was saying that there would be a way

04:39would be found to access those frozen assets.

04:42Dave, I know you don't have a crystal ball, but do you have any sense of how that might happen?

04:46Well, I'm sure Prime Minister Deweyver didn't appreciate being spoken for by the president

04:54of France, because all public indications are that we are not close to a deal.

05:00So it really depends.

05:01It depends entirely on the Belgian prime minister.

05:03And so far, he has been pretty adamant on that.

05:07But it depends.

05:08If they can find some way to give him reassurances that he thinks will protect Belgium legally and

05:14reputationally, maybe he'll change his mind in the coming week.

05:17Dave Keating, as always, thank you very much indeed.

05:19Dave Keating, our correspondent there in Brussels.

05:21Thank you, Dave.

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