Why no one talks about Manipur? Manoj Jha says real 'jungle raj' exists there

11 minutes ago

In a wide-ranging interview on India Today's 'UnPolitics' with Preeti Choudhry, RJD Rajya Sabha MP and National Spokesperson Manoj Kumar Jha discusses his political career, the 2024 Lok Sabha elections, and the future of the RJD.

Transcript

00:00:00Our next guest for Run Politics is one of the most eloquent speakers when it comes to the

00:00:19parliament. He hasn't spoken much since his party, the RJD, lost the election in Bihar.

00:00:24We have with us our next guest, Mr Manoj Jha.

00:00:30Welcome, sir. It's a privilege. Thank you for joining us in Un Politics. Thank you for taking the time out. Come, sir.

00:00:36I asked them, Un Politics has something to do with politics. They said, it's not like this.

00:00:41Come, sir. Come, come.

00:01:00They needed you as a face who was an intellectual in that space, could talk well, great orator,

00:01:06represent the party superbly. And for you, you get yourself a Rajya Sabha and you move on from there.

00:01:11We have been a victim of perception.

00:01:14Manoj Jha, the academic, has romanticized and whitewashed what was a brave reality in Bihar,

00:01:20which was Jungle Raj, where generations suffered.

00:01:23We should talk on the database. Why don't we talk about it?

00:01:26Manoj Jha, how do you tabulate fear on a data line?

00:01:29I didn't come to parliament to be a minister. I came to parliament to convey a message.

00:01:38People who must have thought about parliament, they would not have thought that one day this

00:01:44shall be the daily image of Indian parliament. Why shouldn't election commission appear as the election commission of India?

00:01:54When you lose an election, you become an orphan. When you win an election, there is no dearth of variance.

00:02:02If I cannot speak about what caste privilege means to upper caste, I think it would be a civilizational crime.

00:02:14Sir, welcome to UNPolitics. Thank you for taking the time out.

00:02:18Finally.

00:02:19I know elections are over. You went through a bit of your own personal crisis with your family.

00:02:23I hope things are better.

00:02:25But thank you for taking the time out.

00:02:27Thank you so much.

00:02:28Manoj Jha. And, you know, such is the nature of our show, Manoj Jha, that our guests introduce themselves.

00:02:35You know, I'm sure you're used to very rich introductions with somebody as eloquent as you.

00:02:38So, you know, I can come up with very flowery terms to introduce you, you know,

00:02:42in the kind of speeches that you have made, in the kind of intellectual space that you acquire.

00:02:46But I will ask you to introduce yourself to our viewers and listeners.

00:02:51I'll tell you, just as an anecdotal story, Amrita Pritam, we all are aware.

00:02:57Ah, it's one of my favorites.

00:02:59Amrita Pritam, if I remember correctly, approached Khushwan Singh and said that I want to write my autobiography.

00:03:09Khushwan Singh said, what is there in your life?

00:03:15It can come on a revenue stamp.

00:03:18So, I mean, how should I introduce myself?

00:03:22It can be said on a revenue stamp.

00:03:26Somebody who had a dream of making political interventions, not necessarily from the power corridors.

00:03:36But I'll tell you, frankly, since my childhood, I saw myself as a voice of opposition.

00:03:44That time Congress was the dominant party.

00:03:47So that was my imagination, my studies, subsequently my teaching and whatever it has been shaped.

00:03:56This is how I have been shaped.

00:03:58To be anti-establishment.

00:04:00A bit of anti-establishment has been hallmark of my personality since my childhood.

00:04:10The first protest probably I remember, I was in class 8th.

00:04:15And for a small very, today I find it very trivial.

00:04:20But I had protested against the then principal of my school.

00:04:27I won't say a stereotypical definition of anti-establishment.

00:04:33But I'm generally uncomfortable with power, the idea of power.

00:04:39Okay, generally uncomfortable with the idea of power.

00:04:42It's interesting that a politician says that and, you know, I mean, please, it shouldn't be misconstrued.

00:04:52I think I have said it earlier also.

00:04:55There is a very nice book about 1968 French student movement that has impacted me a lot.

00:05:03The name of that book is Disobedient Generation.

00:05:07I think since our childhood, what we are taught is being obedient.

00:05:12Obedient son, obedient brother, obedient sister, obedient daughter, obedient citizen.

00:05:19I think little amount of disobedience, if there is any, if it is there.

00:05:25It is much more better for the society to look at the possibility of course correction.

00:05:32Manojhaji, the current, you know, mood of the country, the set would call it anti-national or urban nuxal.

00:05:41Of course, yes.

00:05:42The other day in the parliament, I'll tell you.

00:05:45Three, four days back, Mr. Prime Minister had referred to Congress as Maoist Muslim Congress, something MMC.

00:05:55And something occurred to me that my Prime Minister deals with China at multiple levels.

00:06:02China has not dissociated itself, herself from the legacy of Mao.

00:06:08So would you speak the same language in China about Mao?

00:06:12Certainly not.

00:06:14So even this idea of urban nuxalism.

00:06:17Anybody who has read the book, Dasso Chaurasive Ki Maa.

00:06:23It's about the nuxal movement in 1967 and how students and youth were inspired.

00:06:31Today, I agree that that entire nuxal movement also does not remain what it was earlier.

00:06:39There is massive deviation.

00:06:41There is massive corruption.

00:06:43There is massive collusion.

00:06:45But at the same time, when we develop this kind of terminologies that anybody...

00:06:52Say, for instance, I'm telling you, three days back, I quoted Why I'm an Atheist, a book by Bhagat Singh.

00:07:00If I take out a few lines from that book and don't mention it was written by Bhagat Singh, I put it in under any name or say my name, you know, I'll be trolled.

00:07:14Maybe somewhere a fire will be lost against me.

00:07:17What are those lines?

00:07:18I mean, when he questions the very idea of God.

00:07:21Now, you know, our Indian society, the civilizational trajectory of our society or our civilization had all the possibility of debates at multiple levels.

00:07:41It had multiple layers.

00:07:43But suddenly, we seem to be very small.

00:07:48We have dwarfed ourselves.

00:07:50And that certainly doesn't sound good, doesn't look good.

00:07:55Manuji, you say that, you know, you're primarily inherently had an aversion or still have an aversion to power.

00:08:02It's interesting because one would say that's a privilege of a Rajya Sabha MP and not a Lok Sabha MP.

00:08:08You know, I'll clarify.

00:08:11It should be clarified.

00:08:12When I say power, it emanates not from the position say Lok Sabha or Rajya Sabha.

00:08:19You know, when I became head of the department in Department of Social Work, University of Delhi, I was afraid of myself.

00:08:28How would I deal with this?

00:08:31And certainly my dealings with my students, my colleague was not conventional the way HODs used to function.

00:08:40So it should be seen in that context.

00:08:43So you were a bit of an outlier there as well.

00:08:46Outlier there.

00:08:47Or I would say a bit of rebellion just to convey a message.

00:08:54I remember in my school times, 5th or 6th, a teacher used to beat us.

00:09:02I mean, that was the time when...

00:09:04We've all got it.

00:09:05We've all got it.

00:09:07And you know, when I have that sense, so I'll not utter a word, but I'll do lip movement.

00:09:15And the teacher used to get furious.

00:09:17What is he doing with the lips?

00:09:20Certainly, I was speaking my mind without uttering a word through the lip movement.

00:09:27In that context, I said, it's not about the privilege of being elected.

00:09:31Maybe tomorrow my party tells me to contest Lok Sabha election.

00:09:35I would if I wish to continue in politics.

00:09:38I'm going to circle back to that very important question, which you raised for yourself, if you wish to continue in politics.

00:09:44But I don't think you have anything in the immediate future to worry about because your term is still 2030.

00:09:51It's a while that you're going to be in office.

00:09:53But Manoji, you said you came in with the views of anti-establishment.

00:09:57You had certain left ideologies at one point of time.

00:10:01You looked at a socialist setup.

00:10:03Was that what attracted you to the RGD initially?

00:10:06Look, fundamentally, I would tell you...

00:10:08What made you join the RGD?

00:10:10The primary was...

00:10:11You had no political, you know...

00:10:14Association with any mainstream political party.

00:10:16Nothing.

00:10:17You know, I...

00:10:18Your parents were?

00:10:19No, no.

00:10:20Both my parents were university teachers.

00:10:22Just university teachers.

00:10:23Just university teachers.

00:10:24So you actually followed that path and acquired the political...

00:10:27And I primarily joined the university.

00:10:30I had...

00:10:31As a student, I had my background in the left movement.

00:10:33But I'll tell you something.

00:10:35Our...

00:10:37Adolescent and youthhood...

00:10:39Youthhood...

00:10:40Was shaped...

00:10:41Under the shadow of...

00:10:43Ramjan, Bhoomi, Babri, Masjid...

00:10:45We saw many premises being...

00:10:48Premises being decimated.

00:10:50Many values or many things we took for granted.

00:10:54Suddenly, we saw...

00:10:55I saw many riots.

00:10:57Suddenly, when we were growing up...

00:11:00I mean, I was in graduation.

00:11:02I remember...

00:11:041989, Bhagalpur riots happened.

00:11:06I was in my final year of graduation.

00:11:09Very young...

00:11:11To imagine anything.

00:11:12I was in the relief...

00:11:14In...

00:11:15In...

00:11:16Some relief operation in Bhagalpur.

00:11:18And I...

00:11:19You come from Saharsa.

00:11:20I come from Saharsa.

00:11:21Saharsa, Bihar.

00:11:22My schooling is partly...

00:11:24In Saharsa.

00:11:25Then in Rachi.

00:11:26Which is now present.

00:11:27Now...

00:11:28Jharkhand.

00:11:29Then Patna.

00:11:30Then Delhi University.

00:11:31But I decided that I will work on riots.

00:11:34And I revisited for my PhD.

00:11:37And I did my PhD on Bhagalpur riots.

00:11:40What made me choose RJD?

00:11:43I'll tell you...

00:11:45Laluji's impeccable record...

00:11:47With regard to...

00:11:49No-nonsense approach...

00:11:51On...

00:11:52Communalism.

00:11:53That's what it's like.

00:11:54I wanted somebody...

00:11:55To speak that language...

00:11:56When people were getting half-weight.

00:11:58They were not speaking their mind.

00:12:00Today people can have any opinion.

00:12:03But...

00:12:04People like me...

00:12:05They...

00:12:06When they thought...

00:12:07When they saw...

00:12:08Hundreds of towns...

00:12:09And cities being engulfed...

00:12:11Engulfed...

00:12:12With communal riots.

00:12:13I think...

00:12:14His voice...

00:12:15Mattered a lot.

00:12:16And that was one of the turning point for me.

00:12:18When I decided...

00:12:19What year was that?

00:12:20When you decided to join the party?

00:12:21I think...

00:12:23The decision...

00:12:24Which was there in the mind...

00:12:26Was...

00:12:27Around...

00:12:282001 and 2...

00:12:29After the Gujarat riot...

00:12:31There was a gap between...

00:12:3389 and 2002...

00:12:35What we saw in Gujarat...

00:12:37It was at...

00:12:38At no less...

00:12:39Smaller scale...

00:12:41In...

00:12:42In Bhagalpur...

00:12:43In my own state...

00:12:44But...

00:12:45In materializing...

00:12:46Or in actualizing...

00:12:47This decision...

00:12:48It took me...

00:12:49Seven...

00:12:50Eight years...

00:12:51Because I had my own...

00:12:52Career...

00:12:53Challenges...

00:12:54I was...

00:12:55Finishing my PhD...

00:12:57Then...

00:12:58Associate Professor...

00:12:59And then...

00:13:00Then...

00:13:012008...

00:13:022009...

00:13:03I think it was...

00:13:042010...

00:13:052010...

00:13:06When you joined...

00:13:07How did that happen?

00:13:08Manojha...

00:13:09Who is a teacher...

00:13:10Who has absolutely...

00:13:11Zero...

00:13:12Political affiliation...

00:13:13Walk into...

00:13:14The RJD office...

00:13:15And say...

00:13:16I want to join you...

00:13:17I tell you...

00:13:18Don't judge political affiliation...

00:13:19Only by...

00:13:20Belonging to a political party...

00:13:22Political...

00:13:23All of us have political affiliation...

00:13:25Of course...

00:13:26And I am not...

00:13:27I am not saying politics...

00:13:28The way it is...

00:13:29Perceived as a...

00:13:30Murky business...

00:13:31Doubtful business...

00:13:32I think...

00:13:33Anybody who is worried about...

00:13:35How resources...

00:13:36Are generated...

00:13:37Distributed...

00:13:38Who controls them...

00:13:40Who gets what...

00:13:41Where...

00:13:42When...

00:13:43And how...

00:13:44It's all...

00:13:45Is shaped by...

00:13:46Politics...

00:13:47And all of us...

00:13:48Have a stake...

00:13:502010...

00:13:51There were...

00:13:52A couple of occasions...

00:13:53A book...

00:13:54Release moment...

00:13:55Then I had a...

00:13:56Meeting in that...

00:13:57Book release function...

00:13:59With...

00:14:00Laluji...

00:14:01Our president...

00:14:02Then subsequent...

00:14:03Two meetings...

00:14:04And...

00:14:05I started working as...

00:14:06Their...

00:14:07Media...

00:14:08Spokesperson...

00:14:09To...

00:14:10Late...

00:14:112010...

00:14:12Mostly after...

00:14:132010...

00:14:14Elections...

00:14:15Assembly...

00:14:16Elections...

00:14:17At a...

00:14:18Greater scale...

00:14:19From...

00:14:202011...

00:14:21And...

00:14:22This is how...

00:14:23It happened...

00:14:24I would say...

00:14:25That at that point of time...

00:14:26A party...

00:14:27Which...

00:14:28Had a very...

00:14:29Rural...

00:14:30Strongman...

00:14:31Base...

00:14:32Needed...

00:14:33A face...

00:14:34Like you...

00:14:35Who was...

00:14:36Intellectual...

00:14:37Who was...

00:14:38You know...

00:14:39A great...

00:14:40Orator...

00:14:41And...

00:14:42Even...

00:14:43Even...

00:14:44Even...

00:14:45If...

00:14:46Today...

00:14:47I'm...

00:14:48To...

00:14:49Look...

00:14:50Priti...

00:14:51Many thought it was symbiotic...

00:14:52If I complete my question...

00:14:53That...

00:14:54They needed you...

00:14:55As a face...

00:14:56Who was an intellectual...

00:14:57In that space...

00:14:58Could talk well...

00:14:59Great orator...

00:15:00Represent the party...

00:15:01Superbly...

00:15:02You get yourself a Rajya Sabha...

00:15:03And you move on from there on...

00:15:04Look...

00:15:05Priti...

00:15:06I mean...

00:15:07This is a very...

00:15:08Simplistic reduction...

00:15:09Almost...

00:15:10A plus B...

00:15:11Whole square types...

00:15:12A square B...

00:15:13You can accuse me of that...

00:15:14Right...

00:15:15But I'll tell you...

00:15:16I fundamentally disagree...

00:15:17I'm not...

00:15:18I was...

00:15:19Certainly...

00:15:20Not the only...

00:15:21Intellectual...

00:15:22Wanting to join...

00:15:23RJD...

00:15:24I was certainly...

00:15:25Not the...

00:15:26Only person...

00:15:27Who spoke well...

00:15:28I was certainly...

00:15:29Not...

00:15:30The only one...

00:15:31Available...

00:15:32From...

00:15:33My state...

00:15:34Who could...

00:15:35Join...

00:15:36RJD...

00:15:37And...

00:15:38I think...

00:15:39These are all...

00:15:40I have said...

00:15:41Maluji...

00:15:42You're...

00:15:43One of the finest...

00:15:44Orators...

00:15:45And...

00:15:46One of the most...

00:15:47Eloquent...

00:15:48Orators...

00:15:49That the parliament...

00:15:50Has seen...

00:15:51In recent history...

00:15:52I'll tell you...

00:15:53Preeti Ji...

00:15:54For that also...

00:15:55I must tell you...

00:15:56Till date...

00:15:57Neither...

00:15:58Lalu Ji...

00:15:59Nor...

00:16:00That kind of...

00:16:01Freedom...

00:16:02Many other...

00:16:03Political parties...

00:16:04And their...

00:16:05Spokesperson...

00:16:06Or their...

00:16:07Members of parliament...

00:16:08Will never...

00:16:09Be able to...

00:16:10Realize...

00:16:11Second...

00:16:12Important thing...

00:16:13Which I must...

00:16:14Put it on record...

00:16:15And...

00:16:16I've said it...

00:16:17Earlier...

00:16:18That...

00:16:19You know...

00:16:20RJD...

00:16:21Never had...

00:16:22The services...

00:16:23Of some...

00:16:24Any...

00:16:25It's a...

00:16:26Very...

00:16:27Organic...

00:16:28Kind of...

00:16:29Political outfit...

00:16:30Today...

00:16:31We have lost...

00:16:32I agree...

00:16:33But...

00:16:34Those...

00:16:35People...

00:16:36Who are...

00:16:37Rushing...

00:16:38To say...

00:16:39That...

00:16:40It's over...

00:16:41I'll tell them...

00:16:42Wait sir...

00:16:43Give us some time...

00:16:44And...

00:16:45This is...

00:16:46What our...

00:16:47RJD is...

00:16:48It has...

00:16:49Then...

00:16:50Votes...

00:16:51Just don't...

00:16:52Evaporate...

00:16:53In thin air...

00:16:54So...

00:16:55I would say...

00:16:56That...

00:16:57We have been a victim...

00:16:58Of perception management...

00:17:00You know...

00:17:01Right now...

00:17:02When we are talking...

00:17:03In Bihar...

00:17:04In last 72 hours...

00:17:05How many murders...

00:17:07How many rapes...

00:17:08Have taken place...

00:17:09It's all over the news...

00:17:11But...

00:17:12The moment...

00:17:13We are there...

00:17:14A particular kind of song is...

00:17:17Played 24-7...

00:17:18Even...

00:17:20The Jungle Raj...

00:17:22I'll just take...

00:17:2330 seconds...

00:17:24And tell you...

00:17:25It was about...

00:17:26A...

00:17:27Municipal...

00:17:28Job...

00:17:29By the...

00:17:30Patna High Court...

00:17:31It was about...

00:17:32Patna Municipal Corporation...

00:17:34But then...

00:17:35The people...

00:17:36Who...

00:17:37Craft...

00:17:38Or...

00:17:39Craft or...

00:17:40Control...

00:17:41Perception management...

00:17:42They...

00:17:43Blamed the entire state...

00:17:44We didn't have...

00:17:45Control over...

00:17:46Lots of institutions...

00:17:47That...

00:17:48Those were also...

00:17:49The years...

00:17:50Which had...

00:17:51Unsettled...

00:17:52The...

00:17:53Then...

00:17:54Those who used to be...

00:17:55Very powerful...

00:17:56Before that...

00:17:57So...

00:17:58They had their own...

00:17:59Kind of politics...

00:18:00To play...

00:18:01They played well...

00:18:02Manuji...

00:18:03To give...

00:18:04As just...

00:18:05Political perception...

00:18:06And propaganda...

00:18:07The question...

00:18:08Could be...

00:18:09That...

00:18:10Manoj...

00:18:11The academic...

00:18:12Has romanticized...

00:18:13And whitewashed...

00:18:14What was...

00:18:15A grave reality...

00:18:16In Bihar...

00:18:17Which was...

00:18:18Jungle Raj...

00:18:19Priti Ji...

00:18:20And you've...

00:18:21Just intellectualized...

00:18:22No...

00:18:23Priti Ji...

00:18:24Intellect...

00:18:25If...

00:18:26I was...

00:18:27Doing...

00:18:28Just...

00:18:29Intellectual...

00:18:30You would have...

00:18:31Challenged me...

00:18:32I would tell you...

00:18:33Let's have data...

00:18:34Every...

00:18:35Let's make...

00:18:36Columns...

00:18:37And discuss...

00:18:38That...

00:18:39Manoj...

00:18:40When you have...

00:18:41Database...

00:18:42I mean...

00:18:43We should talk...

00:18:44On the database...

00:18:45Why don't we talk about...

00:18:46Manoj...

00:18:47How do you...

00:18:48Tabulate fear...

00:18:49On a data line...

00:18:50A sense of fear...

00:18:51Which was ingrained...

00:18:52Generations...

00:18:53After generations...

00:18:54For a period of time...

00:18:55I have...

00:18:56I have...

00:18:57To...

00:18:58To...

00:18:59To...

00:19:00To...

00:19:01To...

00:19:02To...

00:19:03To...

00:19:04I understand...

00:19:05You know...

00:19:06I actually do believe...

00:19:07You know...

00:19:08At the cost of being castigated...

00:19:09I do believe...

00:19:10That...

00:19:11At one point of time...

00:19:12RGD was the political and social necessity...

00:19:13Where...

00:19:14Bihar was concerned...

00:19:15But...

00:19:16What I find...

00:19:17Difficult to understand is...

00:19:18When...

00:19:19Intelligent...

00:19:20Far more intelligent than I...

00:19:21And most people...

00:19:22Men like you...

00:19:23Choose to...

00:19:24You know...

00:19:25Skim over...

00:19:26What...

00:19:27What ground reality is...

00:19:28And make me look at data...

00:19:29Where you know...

00:19:30You can't tabulate fear on data...

00:19:31There was a sense...

00:19:32No...

00:19:33You know...

00:19:34If you are not gonna accept it...

00:19:35Then...

00:19:36Let's...

00:19:37Let's understand...

00:19:38Preeti Ji...

00:19:39Let's very...

00:19:40There are two components of fear...

00:19:42One...

00:19:43Is tangible fear...

00:19:45Second...

00:19:46Is intangible fear...

00:19:48Right...

00:19:50For the tangible fear...

00:19:52You should have the database...

00:19:54For intangible fear...

00:19:55One can't do anything...

00:19:57Now...

00:19:58Intangible fear...

00:19:59Is created by...

00:20:01I mean...

00:20:02That's what I'm saying...

00:20:03That...

00:20:04Leave aside our...

00:20:05Rule from 1990...

00:20:07When...

00:20:08Tejasvi Ji...

00:20:09Was deputy CM...

00:20:10With Mitis Kumar...

00:20:11Look at the tone of the media...

00:20:13In those 17 months...

00:20:15Forget media...

00:20:16The tone of our home minister...

00:20:18About those 17 months...

00:20:20What had changed...

00:20:22Nothing...

00:20:23Mitisvi Ji was the CM...

00:20:25Hmm...

00:20:26Tejasvi Ji was the deputy CM...

00:20:28Certain...

00:20:29Highly positive things happened...

00:20:31On a scale of lakhs...

00:20:33Recruitment had never taken place...

00:20:35You know...

00:20:36That's why I say...

00:20:37We understand...

00:20:38People whom we are fighting...

00:20:40They are...

00:20:41Very powerful in narrative management...

00:20:44You know that...

00:20:45I would never agree...

00:20:46That this fear...

00:20:49Was in a particular period...

00:20:51And it vanished after that...

00:20:53As if golden era has arrived...

00:20:55The political explanation for that...

00:20:57Was that you had somebody like...

00:20:58The halo of Nitish Kumar...

00:21:00Somewhere down the line...

00:21:01Downsized the fear...

00:21:02Of NRJD...

00:21:03So that's why it was a potent combination...

00:21:05That's the political argument...

00:21:06But...

00:21:07You know...

00:21:08But the home minister of India...

00:21:09Did not agree...

00:21:10Look at his speeches...

00:21:12So that's the...

00:21:12So I'm not talking about the...

00:21:13See that's the point...

00:21:15And Manuji...

00:21:15I will stress on it once more...

00:21:16Because I think it is important...

00:21:18Because there's a sense of dystopia...

00:21:19I feel...

00:21:20That sets in where politicians...

00:21:21Especially from the opposition...

00:21:23Come from...

00:21:24Where they feel...

00:21:24That they speak from a high moral ground...

00:21:26Nobody is denying...

00:21:27What's wrong with the country today...

00:21:28On all the reference data points...

00:21:30That you want to give in...

00:21:31And I accept some of those...

00:21:32And most of them...

00:21:33Are being whitewashed today as well...

00:21:35But the sheer fact...

00:21:37That the likes of you...

00:21:38Will not recognize...

00:21:39I'll give you an example...

00:21:40I covered this Bihar election...

00:21:41I covered the last Bihar election...

00:21:43When you say...

00:21:43How do you tabulate the fact...

00:21:44That you will have...

00:21:45Two generations of women...

00:21:47Who say...

00:21:47Usu waqt bahar jana mushkil tha...

00:21:50How do you...

00:21:51You know...

00:21:51That's not perception...

00:21:52That's lived reality...

00:21:54And if you're not going to...

00:21:55You know...

00:21:55If you're going to sit here...

00:21:56And you're not going to accept that...

00:21:58That that was problematic...

00:21:59And maybe you've gone beyond that...

00:22:00Now...

00:22:01Titi ji...

00:22:02I was there in Bihar...

00:22:03In that phase also...

00:22:05My hometown is Bihar...

00:22:07Right...

00:22:08And I left Bihar in 89...

00:22:11Lalu ji had not come...

00:22:1389 I came...

00:22:15Because my sessions were late...

00:22:17So I had to shift to Delhi...

00:22:19Otherwise...

00:22:19For history...

00:22:20I would have continued in Bihar...

00:22:22Number one...

00:22:23Number two...

00:22:25I'll give you one example...

00:22:28This entire controversy about...

00:22:31Sardar Patel was chosen as the Prime Minister...

00:22:34Yet he was superseded by Jawaharlal Nehru...

00:22:38Hmm...

00:22:39What is the fact?

00:22:41There is no fact...

00:22:42There is no fact...

00:22:42I agree with you...

00:22:44But everybody agrees today...

00:22:47You...

00:22:48That's why I'm telling you...

00:22:50That...

00:22:51A set of propaganda...

00:22:53Which is done...

00:22:5524-7...

00:22:57It has the capacity...

00:22:58Unfortunately...

00:22:59So...

00:23:00You're saying...

00:23:00When you...

00:23:00You're basically suggesting...

00:23:02That when you say something...

00:23:03Too many times...

00:23:04It becomes reality...

00:23:05Because people...

00:23:05At least two people...

00:23:06Will start believing that...

00:23:07That's what you're saying...

00:23:07You are saying...

00:23:08It's not about...

00:23:09Priti ji is only saying...

00:23:10Every newspaper...

00:23:11Which is controlled by...

00:23:13A particular section...

00:23:14Every media house...

00:23:16If you keep...

00:23:16And you know...

00:23:17I understand their position...

00:23:19I have written about it...

00:23:22Important people...

00:23:23Were unsettled after 1990s...

00:23:26Suddenly...

00:23:27They thought...

00:23:28That they have control...

00:23:29Lost control over politics...

00:23:31Their presence is negligible...

00:23:34So...

00:23:35But...

00:23:35They still had control in...

00:23:37Control in...

00:23:38Non-elected bodies...

00:23:40Newspaper...

00:23:41Media...

00:23:42Which were not chosen by the people...

00:23:44And they...

00:23:45They continued...

00:23:46And that's why I...

00:23:48Typically...

00:23:49I mean...

00:23:49I specifically took that example of...

00:23:5222 to 24 January...

00:23:54Mm-hmm...

00:23:55I ignored 90...

00:23:57Only for...

00:23:58To clarify...

00:23:59That the moment...

00:24:00We came back to power...

00:24:02The same...

00:24:02Jungle Raj thing...

00:24:04Started playing...

00:24:05Again...

00:24:06Again...

00:24:07And we understand the rhythm...

00:24:09We understand this song...

00:24:10Why it is replayed...

00:24:12We understand everything...

00:24:14We'll fight it...

00:24:15In an organic manner...

00:24:16And I assure you...

00:24:19We'll fight it...

00:24:20Successfully...

00:24:20You know...

00:24:21I'm going to let it go...

00:24:21But I will say this...

00:24:22You know...

00:24:23I understand...

00:24:23There's a lot of blame...

00:24:24That the media might need to shoulder...

00:24:26And I do understand that...

00:24:27I...

00:24:28I take your criticism...

00:24:30I take your criticism...

00:24:31Where the media is concerned...

00:24:33But I do also feel...

00:24:34Can I just tell you...

00:24:36Not even a rejoinder...

00:24:39How many times...

00:24:39Jungle Raj has been spoken about...

00:24:42In Manipur...

00:24:43No...

00:24:43I...

00:24:44I get...

00:24:44It's a complete lawn...

00:24:45You know...

00:24:45It's a statelessness...

00:24:48I speak about it...

00:24:49But I also speak about the fact...

00:24:50I'm not talking about...

00:24:51No...

00:24:51I agree...

00:24:52Similar cases...

00:24:52I understand...

00:24:54I understand that you want to...

00:24:55You know...

00:24:55You might want to say that...

00:24:57There is the media that built a concerted narrative...

00:24:59And people started buying into it...

00:25:00And therefore it's become the truth now...

00:25:02Even though there was no fact to it...

00:25:03Yeah...

00:25:03That's what you're saying...

00:25:04What I feel is today...

00:25:06Yes...

00:25:06The media can shoulder part of the blame...

00:25:07But there was something there...

00:25:08And the point is...

00:25:10We can choose to disagree...

00:25:12But there is a sizable...

00:25:14There is a sizable...

00:25:15Population today in Bihar...

00:25:17There is a sizable lot in Bihar...

00:25:19That do feel that...

00:25:20I...

00:25:21Also don't waste to...

00:25:22And to gas...

00:25:22You know...

00:25:22There's a word for gaslighting...

00:25:24But I tell you...

00:25:24Mujaffar Poor Balikagre...

00:25:27When did it happen?

00:25:29Manoj...

00:25:29I can...

00:25:29You know...

00:25:30We can go into individual instances...

00:25:31I...

00:25:32I'm...

00:25:32I'm talking...

00:25:33I...

00:25:33I actually covered that case...

00:25:35Mujaffar...

00:25:36I actually...

00:25:36I went and covered that case...

00:25:37I'm one of the petitioners in that...

00:25:39Right...

00:25:39So I'm telling you...

00:25:40That can there be...

00:25:42More gruesome than what happened...

00:25:43I'm not...

00:25:43I am not once denying it...

00:25:45But did anybody say...

00:25:46That it's...

00:25:47It's symbolic of Jungle Raj...

00:25:49Manoj...

00:25:50I am not once saying it...

00:25:51I myself covered it...

00:25:52It's not about what I feel...

00:25:53But I do...

00:25:54I take...

00:25:54As the media...

00:25:55As the collective media...

00:25:56That is today...

00:25:57I take responsibility...

00:25:58That some of us...

00:25:59Or rather...

00:25:59Even if you say...

00:26:00Most of us are not doing their job...

00:26:02Right...

00:26:02I will say it...

00:26:03But I just do feel...

00:26:05That...

00:26:05That same onus...

00:26:06Also lies on you...

00:26:07Not you in particular...

00:26:08But the opposition...

00:26:09Your party today...

00:26:10Which...

00:26:11There is a dystopian way of looking at it...

00:26:13That it was all propaganda...

00:26:14That was...

00:26:15Jungle Raj was all propaganda...

00:26:16It never existed...

00:26:17Because then you are gaslighting the people of Bihar...

00:26:19No...

00:26:19Preeti ji...

00:26:20More than anybody else...

00:26:22Lalu ji and Tejasvi ji...

00:26:24Tejasvi ji himself has said...

00:26:26Okay...

00:26:26That if anything...

00:26:28Anywhere...

00:26:29Has happened...

00:26:30Last election...

00:26:31Or this election also...

00:26:33He said...

00:26:34We will rectify those mistakes...

00:26:36Even if...

00:26:37Now...

00:26:38Even when we are in opposition...

00:26:40I mean...

00:26:41Do you see anybody from any political party...

00:26:45Coming to this...

00:26:46Coming and saying this...

00:26:48With conviction...

00:26:49That's what I am saying...

00:26:50No...

00:26:50I am just talking about the conversation we were having...

00:26:53Many would think...

00:26:54Manojha...

00:26:54Because okay...

00:26:55You might not believe...

00:26:56The whole Jungle Raj image...

00:26:58But many would think...

00:26:59That you are an antithesis...

00:27:01Your personality was an antithesis to the party of RJD...

00:27:04Some would also say...

00:27:06Manojha ji...

00:27:07That...

00:27:08What was said about Vajpayee ji...

00:27:09At one point of time...

00:27:10Right man...

00:27:11Wrong party...

00:27:12I don't agree...

00:27:14You know...

00:27:14I have...

00:27:15In response to your question...

00:27:17Some other question I have said...

00:27:20Who chose me for Rajasabha...

00:27:24My party...

00:27:25The same party repeated me...

00:27:28Second time...

00:27:29In 2024...

00:27:31And...

00:27:32If anything...

00:27:34I am just a small part of...

00:27:38The core values of my party...

00:27:40You know...

00:27:42When I see around me...

00:27:43Political parties...

00:27:45Playing...

00:27:47Hide and seek game with BJP...

00:27:49My entire leadership has suffered...

00:27:52But they never chose to play...

00:27:55Hide and seek...

00:27:56That makes me happy...

00:27:58And feel proud of the fact...

00:28:01That I am not in a wrong party...

00:28:02I am with this current...

00:28:05I will quit politics...

00:28:08But be part of this current...

00:28:10This political party...

00:28:12This...

00:28:13Exactly...

00:28:14You know...

00:28:14You are also answering a question...

00:28:15Which was raised by one of the players...

00:28:17Where he didn't...

00:28:18Tantamount to much...

00:28:19Where Prashant Kishore ji...

00:28:20Had said...

00:28:20Take away Rajya Sabha...

00:28:23From Manojha...

00:28:24And see where he stands...

00:28:25On the political spectrum...

00:28:26I will tell you...

00:28:27I was told by someone...

00:28:30Then I watched that clip...

00:28:33Priti ji...

00:28:34Rajya Sabha...

00:28:35Before Rajya Sabha...

00:28:36I was university teacher...

00:28:37I used to write...

00:28:38I used to speak...

00:28:40You came to know me...

00:28:43When I came to Rajya Sabha...

00:28:45Of course...

00:28:45And many people...

00:28:47Many others...

00:28:48Have come to know...

00:28:49That who am I...

00:28:50Because you were a superberator...

00:28:51Yeah...

00:28:51That's what I am saying...

00:28:53In Rajya Sabha...

00:28:54I worked...

00:28:56From morning till evening...

00:28:59Late night...

00:29:01While you continued to teach...

00:29:02Yeah...

00:29:02While continued to teach...

00:29:04And I prepared my...

00:29:05Speeches...

00:29:06Not...

00:29:06I don't have an office...

00:29:08Office staff members...

00:29:09I do it myself...

00:29:10Some of my colleagues...

00:29:12They help me...

00:29:12I wanted to tell...

00:29:15That gentleman...

00:29:17That even if...

00:29:18Rajya Sabha is taken...

00:29:21It cannot take away...

00:29:23What I am...

00:29:26Who I am...

00:29:28Aisa bhi chana aega...

00:29:30There shall be a day...

00:29:32When I shall be tested on this...

00:29:34But I promise you...

00:29:36You will...

00:29:37You will...

00:29:38Wherever both of us are...

00:29:40You will never come and tell me...

00:29:41We didn't expect...

00:29:43After that answer...

00:29:45This from you...

00:29:46So you're...

00:29:48It's an answer to what...

00:29:49That gentleman...

00:29:50Prashant Kishore...

00:29:50I just want to say...

00:29:51Say it out loudly...

00:29:52So...

00:29:53You're saying...

00:29:53You're not going anywhere...

00:29:54Tomorrow...

00:29:55Even if...

00:29:55There is no Rajya Sabha...

00:29:56After 2030...

00:29:57Either you leave politics...

00:29:58Or you stay with the party...

00:29:59Exactly...

00:29:59Look...

00:29:59Fact of the matter is...

00:30:01I didn't come to parliament...

00:30:03To be a minister...

00:30:05I came to parliament...

00:30:07To...

00:30:08To...

00:30:09Convey a message...

00:30:10I have done that...

00:30:12In my debates...

00:30:13I...

00:30:13Today also...

00:30:14I feel...

00:30:15That the best criticism...

00:30:17Is one...

00:30:18Which is civil in nature...

00:30:20Till date...

00:30:21None of my speeches...

00:30:22Have been expensed...

00:30:24In the parliament...

00:30:25Tell me something...

00:30:26On a side note...

00:30:27Manojji...

00:30:28Do you have people...

00:30:28From the treasury benches...

00:30:29Who come and say...

00:30:30What speech was Manojji...

00:30:31Many...

00:30:32Many...

00:30:33Many...

00:30:33I mean I can't...

00:30:34Of course...

00:30:35And you shouldn't...

00:30:35Because there will be trouble...

00:30:36Top ministers...

00:30:38Top ministers...

00:30:39Top ministers...

00:30:40In BGP...

00:30:41Government...

00:30:42Many speeches...

00:30:44I think...

00:30:45COVID speech was one...

00:30:47In 2021...

00:30:48If I am not wrong...

00:30:49COVID speech was a very...

00:30:51Eight minute speech...

00:30:52Only I had only...

00:30:53That much of time...

00:30:54But I think...

00:30:55The entire treasury bench...

00:30:57Count...

00:30:59And...

00:30:59They came because...

00:31:01What I said...

00:31:02Many wanted to say...

00:31:03And that was a...

00:31:05Personal suffering for me...

00:31:07As also a collective suffering...

00:31:09For the nation...

00:31:10Why do you say personal suffering?

00:31:11I mean...

00:31:12I lost young students of mine...

00:31:15In COVID...

00:31:15I found myself helpless...

00:31:18As a nation...

00:31:19We were helpless...

00:31:21But...

00:31:22We are a very different nation...

00:31:23We forget things very quickly...

00:31:25That's true...

00:31:26And that I agree with you...

00:31:27And that's why I'll just conclude...

00:31:29The other day I was speaking to a...

00:31:31A forum...

00:31:32I think what we require...

00:31:35After COVID...

00:31:35We realized...

00:31:36How vulnerable we are...

00:31:38In the face of an epidemic...

00:31:41Right to health...

00:31:42Should be a fundamental right...

00:31:44I agree...

00:31:45And we have not worked on it...

00:31:46So these kind of...

00:31:48Small messages...

00:31:49I have been trying to give...

00:31:50In the parliament...

00:31:51And...

00:31:52One must...

00:31:53One thing I must tell you...

00:31:55I have never been shouted down...

00:31:57By...

00:31:57Treasury benches...

00:31:58They like you...

00:31:59Do they?

00:32:00I mean...

00:32:01Look...

00:32:02It so happens...

00:32:03That...

00:32:04I would repeat...

00:32:05That...

00:32:06They don't mind listening to their...

00:32:08Criticism...

00:32:10It should be civil...

00:32:12And I choose my words very carefully...

00:32:14You have friends in the...

00:32:16Across...

00:32:16In the treasury benches...

00:32:18Amun...

00:32:19Yes...

00:32:19Good friends...

00:32:20Amun...

00:32:21Look...

00:32:22My life is little different...

00:32:25I don't go for social gatherings much...

00:32:27Since my...

00:32:28Young days...

00:32:29I have this problem...

00:32:31I don't attend weddings...

00:32:32Or...

00:32:33New Year celebrations...

00:32:34Or Christmas evenings...

00:32:36Or festival gatherings...

00:32:38At a level...

00:32:40A public person...

00:32:41But a private...

00:32:42Also...

00:32:43I like to spend time...

00:32:45In my...

00:32:46Set of books...

00:32:48Music...

00:32:49Writings...

00:32:50I almost every week...

00:32:51I write column...

00:32:52So...

00:32:53These are the engagements...

00:32:54I prefer...

00:32:55But then...

00:32:55I am happy...

00:32:57And I consider it...

00:32:58A kind of...

00:33:00Achievement...

00:33:02That...

00:33:03People appreciate...

00:33:04Even my criticism...

00:33:05You know...

00:33:06I am going to ask you a bit more...

00:33:07And then we are going to talk a bit of politics...

00:33:08Where Bihar is concerned...

00:33:09But I am going to ask you...

00:33:10Because...

00:33:11You know...

00:33:11For someone...

00:33:12Who works on his speeches...

00:33:13And it shows...

00:33:14When you deliver them...

00:33:15Who do you think...

00:33:17Are some of the best speakers today?

00:33:18Both...

00:33:19Both sides...

00:33:20I am sure...

00:33:20You also look at...

00:33:21And say...

00:33:21Isni achcha bula...

00:33:22Contemporary...

00:33:24Let me not...

00:33:25Okay...

00:33:26Why not?

00:33:27You know...

00:33:27There are...

00:33:29There are...

00:33:30Speakers...

00:33:31But...

00:33:32I will tell you...

00:33:33What happens...

00:33:34If I say...

00:33:35One...

00:33:35Two...

00:33:36Or three...

00:33:37And don't mention others...

00:33:38Okay...

00:33:38This winter session...

00:33:39You have the best speech...

00:33:40I will...

00:33:41I will...

00:33:41I will take you to history...

00:33:43I love history...

00:33:45One of the best speakers in history...

00:33:49About whom...

00:33:50I have only read...

00:33:52His speeches...

00:33:53I still have...

00:33:54Professor Hiren Mukherjee...

00:33:56From Bengal...

00:34:00Six time...

00:34:01Or five times...

00:34:01Communist Party...

00:34:02MP...

00:34:04Then I think...

00:34:05Nehru was...

00:34:08A good speaker...

00:34:11Pillu Modi...

00:34:14Lohiya Ji...

00:34:17Ramanohar Lohiya...

00:34:18Very short span of time...

00:34:20But he was a...

00:34:21Very good parliamentarian...

00:34:22But...

00:34:23Something which is common to all...

00:34:25Even...

00:34:26Bajpayee Ji...

00:34:27I would say...

00:34:28Yeah...

00:34:28He had some...

00:34:28He was...

00:34:30All of them have something in common...

00:34:34If you...

00:34:36Analyze their...

00:34:37Speeches...

00:34:38None of them were very bitter about...

00:34:43Their opposition...

00:34:45Very...

00:34:46I mean...

00:34:47Parliament is meant to...

00:34:49Reach out...

00:34:51It means to include...

00:34:53Include...

00:34:54Bring as many...

00:34:55People as possible...

00:34:57In your scheme of things...

00:34:59Or...

00:34:59The way you...

00:35:00Present...

00:35:01But...

00:35:02Of late...

00:35:03What worries me...

00:35:05That...

00:35:06That kind of...

00:35:07The level of debate...

00:35:08Yes...

00:35:09It's not...

00:35:09It's not only...

00:35:10Pritiji's level of debate...

00:35:12The relationship...

00:35:14It's...

00:35:15Adversarial...

00:35:16Even after...

00:35:17You know...

00:35:18With what you see on TV...

00:35:19Is it...

00:35:20Is it as bad...

00:35:21Even like...

00:35:22When you are walking past each other...

00:35:24No...

00:35:24Maybe you say...

00:35:25There must be some nice cities...

00:35:26You may...

00:35:27Say hello to each other...

00:35:28In the canteen...

00:35:30In the sangham 1...

00:35:31Or sangham 2...

00:35:32But...

00:35:33When somebody is making a reference...

00:35:35Or a point...

00:35:36You should...

00:35:37See the way...

00:35:38Somebody is shouted down...

00:35:40Then the use of...

00:35:41I mean...

00:35:42Language itself...

00:35:43Is another...

00:35:44Varisam issue for me...

00:35:46Toh baithja...

00:35:49Toh kyu bakra hai...

00:35:50I mean...

00:35:51The people who must have thought of our parliament...

00:35:54They would not have thought that one day...

00:35:57This shall be the daily...

00:35:59Image of Indian parliament...

00:36:02That worries me...

00:36:03As a...

00:36:04Not only as a member of parliament...

00:36:06As a citizen...

00:36:07Because...

00:36:08This is not what...

00:36:09We should give to our...

00:36:10Children...

00:36:11That this is your parliament...

00:36:11Manuji...

00:36:12Let me put you on the spot...

00:36:13Who had the best speech...

00:36:14In the winter session this time...

00:36:15It's still not over...

00:36:19I'm just asking you...

00:36:20Till now...

00:36:21Let it be over...

00:36:22Who spoke best in Mandi Matram...

00:36:26You can't be that...

00:36:27You can't be that politically correct...

00:36:29Now...

00:36:30It's not about being politically...

00:36:31Who spoke the best in Mandi Matram...

00:36:34It's very difficult...

00:36:35Set of people spoke...

00:36:37And if I...

00:36:37If I name them...

00:36:39If I name them...

00:36:41You know...

00:36:41Your podcast...

00:36:42After listening to your podcast...

00:36:44They'll come and say...

00:36:45Why didn't you...

00:36:46So what...

00:36:46You're too diplomatic...

00:36:52It is not being diplomatic...

00:36:54It is being honest to myself...

00:36:56That I shouldn't be judging people...

00:36:58One of the best...

00:36:59One of the best phrase I know...

00:37:03Which is...

00:37:03One of the best phrase...

00:37:05The meaning of it I know...

00:37:08I want to now come back...

00:37:10And I want to take you to Bihar...

00:37:11What happened...

00:37:12What happened...

00:37:13Do you also believe...

00:37:14Because your ally has gone...

00:37:16On record...

00:37:17To say...

00:37:18Bihar was a stolen election...

00:37:19Vote chori hui...

00:37:20Congress has said...

00:37:21Vote chori hui...

00:37:22RGD has not said it yet...

00:37:23Look...

00:37:24A fact of the matter is...

00:37:26When...

00:37:27We say...

00:37:28Bihar election...

00:37:29You should see the context...

00:37:31In which Bihar election was held...

00:37:34Small things...

00:37:36It must be conveyed...

00:37:37We had gone to election commission first...

00:37:40That saw...

00:37:41Please include these documents also...

00:37:44Election commission dismissed us...

00:37:46Nobody would understand...

00:37:49If we don't tell this...

00:37:50Then we went to the Honorable Court...

00:37:52The court...

00:37:54Sat on multiple occasions...

00:37:57And gave direction to election commission...

00:37:59Why election commission was refusing...

00:38:02Entertaining a document...

00:38:04Which has 86-87% penetration...

00:38:07That was the first act of dishonesty...

00:38:12Second...

00:38:13About electoral rules...

00:38:15I am not saying...

00:38:17I am not blaming...

00:38:18I am saying that...

00:38:20Why shouldn't election commission...

00:38:22Appear...

00:38:23As the election commission of India...

00:38:25There is some problem there...

00:38:28Third...

00:38:29Which I have learned from Bihar election...

00:38:32And you can construe my answer from that...

00:38:35That for 4 years and 9 months...

00:38:38Youth in Bihar were lati charged...

00:38:40Women were suffering...

00:38:42I am saying this...

00:38:44Nothing...

00:38:45I mean...

00:38:46You have video footage in your own channel...

00:38:49You can check the archives...

00:38:51Then suddenly in the month of October...

00:38:54You transfer 10,000...

00:38:56I wrote to election commission...

00:38:58That we have nothing against this idea...

00:39:01If it is meant to be an empowerment tool...

00:39:04It should have a blueprint...

00:39:06Election commission in similar situation...

00:39:09Had acted in 2 states...

00:39:12On 2 previous occasions...

00:39:14In Bihar...

00:39:15It did not...

00:39:16So the sum total of...

00:39:18These issues...

00:39:19Are behind...

00:39:21The scale of defeat...

00:39:23We had in Bihar...

00:39:24Similar to 2010...

00:39:26But...

00:39:26So...

00:39:26You do not...

00:39:27As somebody who represented...

00:39:28The spokesperson of the RJD...

00:39:30Believe that the Bihar election was stolen...

00:39:32Look...

00:39:33Was there vote showing?

00:39:35No...

00:39:36I will tell you...

00:39:37This phrase...

00:39:38I will...

00:39:39Sum it up...

00:39:41There are multiple ways of rigging...

00:39:45There are multiple ways of compromise...

00:39:49If there is no level playing field...

00:39:52Is it not an occasion to convey...

00:39:55That my election has been stolen?

00:39:58But it is very different...

00:40:00Your argument is very different...

00:40:01Than what your allies' argument is...

00:40:02I will stick to my argument...

00:40:04So you are sticking to your argument...

00:40:05I have said everything...

00:40:06Electoral rule...

00:40:08Documents...

00:40:0910,000 rupees...

00:40:10And finally...

00:40:12As it is said...

00:40:13Who moved my Ferrari...

00:40:15To who moved my election?

00:40:17But you are not saying...

00:40:19What do you want me to say...

00:40:21What the Congress says...

00:40:22Congress says outrightly...

00:40:23You have an answer...

00:40:25I got it...

00:40:26No but I am a journalist...

00:40:26You have an answer for me...

00:40:27I will tell you why I am asking you this question...

00:40:29And there is reason behind it...

00:40:30The reason is that the RJD till now...

00:40:33They have accepted the mandate...

00:40:35They have given their various reasons...

00:40:36But unlike the Congress...

00:40:37Who was their ally...

00:40:39They have not come out and stated...

00:40:40No...

00:40:41That...

00:40:41Priti Ji...

00:40:41There was votary...

00:40:43We contested maximum number of seats...

00:40:46Of course you did...

00:40:46No no...

00:40:47We contested maximum number of seats...

00:40:49Before we started this conversation...

00:40:51I told you that we are into...

00:40:54Booth level data segregation...

00:40:57Let...

00:40:57And that is a long process...

00:41:00That is why I said...

00:41:01We will not make a harried comment...

00:41:03But I gave you three...

00:41:04Four...

00:41:05Three...

00:41:06Four important things...

00:41:08Which have actually resulted in...

00:41:11That we find...

00:41:13That this election...

00:41:15Cannot be called a normal election...

00:41:18With a level playing field...

00:41:19Can I add one more to it...

00:41:20And you can say that you are wrong...

00:41:21The sheer fact that...

00:41:23The RJD...

00:41:24The Congress...

00:41:25Had zero cohesiveness...

00:41:26And unity on ground...

00:41:27The sheer fact that you had 11 seats...

00:41:29That you were fighting on...

00:41:30You know...

00:41:31Friendly fights...

00:41:31But no fight is friendly in politics...

00:41:33Number two...

00:41:34Announcing of Tejasvi Yadav...

00:41:36As Chief Minister...

00:41:37Even when he was announced...

00:41:38He was the only one on the podium...

00:41:40There has been no press conference...

00:41:41At the back...

00:41:41Where joint alliance has come together...

00:41:44To analyze of what went wrong...

00:41:46So there were...

00:41:47There were clear problems...

00:41:48But still...

00:41:49Priti Ji...

00:41:49Are problems...

00:41:50I am...

00:41:50I am against this very idea...

00:41:52Of counterfactual imagination...

00:41:55Many of our leaders...

00:41:58In the present regime...

00:41:59They love this as an art...

00:42:02This is a historian's craft...

00:42:04Alternative imagination...

00:42:07Or counterfactual imagination...

00:42:08But I will take it as this craft for some time...

00:42:11If we had won this election...

00:42:15Your question would not have been the same...

00:42:18Of course it would not have been the same...

00:42:19You know what happens...

00:42:20You know what happens...

00:42:21When you lose an election...

00:42:23You become an orphan...

00:42:25When you win an election...

00:42:27There is no dearth of parents...

00:42:29Every corner you have...

00:42:30But do you still have a sibling...

00:42:31Do you have your ally with you...

00:42:33Yeah...

00:42:33You still have...

00:42:34That's what I am telling you...

00:42:35Okay...

00:42:35You said...

00:42:36Teresviji was alone...

00:42:37When he was named...

00:42:38Yeah...

00:42:39You had Pawan Khera...

00:42:40Nothing wrong with Pawan Khera...

00:42:41He is a great leader...

00:42:42But I am talking about...

00:42:43We had the Bihar in charge as well...

00:42:46Krishna Alavaru...

00:42:47Okay...

00:42:47We had CPIML...

00:42:48Dipankar Bhattacharya...

00:42:50We had Communist leaders...

00:42:51We had VIP and IP Gupta...

00:42:54And I was myself there...

00:42:55In spite of my father's...

00:42:57Critical illness...

00:42:58For that press conference...

00:42:59I was there in Bihar...

00:43:01That's why I am saying...

00:43:02That let's not hurriedly examine...

00:43:04What happened in Bihar...

00:43:06But let's examine...

00:43:08That there are serious threats...

00:43:10To the idea of level playing field...

00:43:13And to the idea of Article 324...

00:43:15Which talks about election commission...

00:43:20And it expects election commission...

00:43:22To conduct free and fair elections...

00:43:24Manuji I hear you...

00:43:25But you spoke of what...

00:43:26Counterfactualism?

00:43:27Counterfactual imagination...

00:43:29Imagination...

00:43:30Okay...

00:43:30So...

00:43:31Counterfactual imagination...

00:43:32I wish it was only restricted to that...

00:43:34But...

00:43:35The likes of your own party...

00:43:36Are clearly suffering from the same...

00:43:38Because you have...

00:43:39A Shivan Antivari Ji...

00:43:40Who is a senior...

00:43:41RJD leader...

00:43:42You have somebody...

00:43:43Who is from the family...

00:43:44Rohini Ji...

00:43:44I am talking about...

00:43:45Let me begin with...

00:43:46What Shivan Antivari Ji has said...

00:43:48Number one...

00:43:48That Tejasviji was advised wrongly...

00:43:51By the likes of Sanjay Adav...

00:43:52And Rameez...

00:43:53Number one allegation...

00:43:55That could be...

00:43:56One of the factors...

00:43:57Of the defeat...

00:43:58Because his advisors...

00:43:59Were all wrong...

00:44:00And he names them...

00:44:01He names Sanjay Adav Ji...

00:44:02He names Rameez...

00:44:03Then he goes on to say...

00:44:04After the defeat...

00:44:06The leader of a party...

00:44:07Needs to be with his carder...

00:44:08You have Tejasviji...

00:44:09Who left for a European holiday...

00:44:10With his family...

00:44:12And...

00:44:12Shivan Antivari Ji...

00:44:13Once again says...

00:44:14These are not the hallmarks...

00:44:15Of a leader...

00:44:16Who is leading his party...

00:44:18Now...

00:44:18Is it counterfactual imagination...

00:44:20Where Shivan Antivari is concerned...

00:44:21No...

00:44:21Counterfactual imagination...

00:44:23Is something different...

00:44:24And I will tell you...

00:44:25If Shivanan Ji is writing this...

00:44:26We don't take it...

00:44:28Lightly...

00:44:29I mean...

00:44:30He has been in my party...

00:44:31But...

00:44:32You know...

00:44:33People are very quick to judge...

00:44:35I am telling you...

00:44:37I have been a student of politics...

00:44:39Maybe new in politics...

00:44:40Maybe a new member of parliament...

00:44:42But I have seen this party...

00:44:44Which was reduced to...

00:44:46Two seats...

00:44:47BJP I am talking about...

00:44:50Two seats...

00:44:51I was in class...

00:44:52Tenth...

00:44:53Or eleventh...

00:44:55People had written...

00:44:57BJP off...

00:44:58It came back...

00:44:59So...

00:45:00I tell you...

00:45:01Whether Shivanan Ji...

00:45:02Or the family members...

00:45:03It is a part of the churning...

00:45:06And finally...

00:45:07You know...

00:45:08Part of the churning...

00:45:08The party...

00:45:10The members...

00:45:11The stakeholders...

00:45:12All of whom you have named...

00:45:14They will resolve it successfully...

00:45:16But...

00:45:17You don't think...

00:45:17Tejasvi Ji was ill-advised...

00:45:19By a certain...

00:45:19I don't buy...

00:45:21I mean...

00:45:21A leader...

00:45:22Knows what to pick up...

00:45:24From where...

00:45:25And I tell you...

00:45:26Ultimately...

00:45:27I repeat...

00:45:28At the cost of repetition...

00:45:29I will say...

00:45:30That's...

00:45:31When you get successful...

00:45:33There are multiple ways...

00:45:35People will come and tell you...

00:45:37How you did wonderful...

00:45:39But one...

00:45:40Small...

00:45:41Failure...

00:45:42Or big failure...

00:45:44But...

00:45:44One small or big failure...

00:45:46From everywhere...

00:45:48So I will say...

00:45:49I will advise everybody...

00:45:51Hold on...

00:45:52But Manoj...

00:45:53It was not one failure...

00:45:54This is about the last...

00:45:55Four or five years...

00:45:55The murmurs were...

00:45:56That it was Sanjay Yadav Ji...

00:45:58Who was constantly...

00:45:59Advising Tejasvi Yadav Ji...

00:46:01On what to do...

00:46:02And wasn't the best decision...

00:46:03Okay...

00:46:03You say it's okay...

00:46:04You know...

00:46:04There is nothing wrong with that...

00:46:05I will tell you...

00:46:07Probably...

00:46:08I don't know...

00:46:09Whether you have interacted with Tejasvi Ji or not...

00:46:12Whether you have interviewed...

00:46:13It's limited...

00:46:13I will tell you...

00:46:15I have worked with many people...

00:46:17Lalu Ji...

00:46:20Had a fantastic...

00:46:22Mind...

00:46:24And his way of...

00:46:25Picking up things...

00:46:27Or listening to people...

00:46:29Tejasvi Ji...

00:46:31I have not seen a better listener than him...

00:46:34I am yet to see...

00:46:36Yes...

00:46:37Results were not according to our...

00:46:40Perception...

00:46:41I myself was away...

00:46:44And you know...

00:46:45My father was actually...

00:46:47Being treated for a very advanced stage cancer...

00:46:51I am sorry...

00:46:51I was not there...

00:46:54But I was watching everything...

00:46:56We never imagined this...

00:46:58Results...

00:46:59I am telling you very frankly...

00:47:00So okay...

00:47:01You are saying...

00:47:02Okay...

00:47:02He was not ill-advised...

00:47:03No...

00:47:03Two elections...

00:47:05I am yet to come to terms with...

00:47:07This one...

00:47:07My Bihar election...

00:47:08And Maharashtra election...

00:47:10Okay...

00:47:10So he was not ill-advised...

00:47:11Should he have left for a foreign holiday...

00:47:13No...

00:47:14Priti Ji...

00:47:15This is a normal...

00:47:16This is a valid question...

00:47:17No...

00:47:18The people who have voted to Tejasvi Ji...

00:47:20Would want to know...

00:47:21That he takes off on a holiday...

00:47:22After a loss like this...

00:47:22I am responding to your question...

00:47:23Did I...

00:47:24Did I block any one of your questions...

00:47:27Not one...

00:47:28And I will see that on record...

00:47:29I am...

00:47:29I am telling you...

00:47:31That...

00:47:32Ill-advised or advice...

00:47:33You know...

00:47:34A leader has to look at multiple things...

00:47:37He could be...

00:47:39Picking up...

00:47:40Three from here...

00:47:41Two from here...

00:47:42At times...

00:47:43This three and two...

00:47:45Five could be all productive...

00:47:47At times...

00:47:48Three could not deliver...

00:47:50Or two could not deliver...

00:47:52But...

00:47:53A leader also takes time...

00:47:54In coming to terms...

00:47:56We are undergoing that process...

00:47:57I am...

00:47:57I am assuring you...

00:48:00And we will come stronger...

00:48:02And I repeat what I had told...

00:48:04Two important people...

00:48:05In 2010...

00:48:07We will change ourselves...

00:48:08And we will...

00:48:09That change will not be...

00:48:11Reinvention of the wheel...

00:48:13Number one...

00:48:14Number two...

00:48:15Do we realize...

00:48:16For past...

00:48:17Eighteen months...

00:48:19Tejasvi Ji was on roads...

00:48:21Almost every second night...

00:48:23He was in a district headquarter...

00:48:25Or commissionary headquarter...

00:48:27So you are saying...

00:48:28He has earned the holiday...

00:48:29No...

00:48:30I don't...

00:48:30I mean...

00:48:31These are corporate terms...

00:48:32Earning the holiday...

00:48:33And I am just saying that...

00:48:35The results came...

00:48:37And he will be there...

00:48:38With the people...

00:48:39He knows...

00:48:40What his mandate says...

00:48:42I am only quoting Shivanand Tiwari Ji...

00:48:44Who says...

00:48:44LOP should have been in Bihar...

00:48:46Through you...

00:48:48I am assuring him also...

00:48:50That...

00:48:51Next election is after five years...

00:48:54We will be with the people...

00:48:56And tell you...

00:48:58In their struggle...

00:48:59In their fight...

00:49:01Now...

00:49:01Small thing I used to share...

00:49:03This 10,000 rupees...

00:49:05It was...

00:49:06Through...

00:49:08Vispa...

00:49:09Or what we call...

00:49:10In propaganda...

00:49:12Grapevine...

00:49:14That...

00:49:152...

00:49:16Lack rupees...

00:49:17Is in the offing...

00:49:18For any enterprise...

00:49:20We will work towards that...

00:49:21People of...

00:49:22Women of Bihar...

00:49:23Shouldn't be cheated...

00:49:25By one time payment...

00:49:27So these are the issues...

00:49:28But...

00:49:29It is a new government...

00:49:30There is a period...

00:49:32What is called...

00:49:34Honeymoon period...

00:49:35I was choosing a different word...

00:49:38A period where will...

00:49:41A cushion kind of period...

00:49:42Where will wait...

00:49:43And you will find...

00:49:44Tejasviji...

00:49:45Maybe next month onwards...

00:49:47Back from his...

00:49:48Re-energized...

00:49:48From his holiday...

00:49:49It is not just that...

00:49:50I will tell you what...

00:49:50It is the larger perception...

00:49:51Manojji...

00:49:52It is leaders...

00:49:53You know...

00:49:53Old leaders from...

00:49:54You know...

00:49:55Your own party...

00:49:56Which is...

00:49:56Shivandan Tiwari...

00:49:57Saying what you do...

00:49:58Many would suggest...

00:49:58You are being very graceful...

00:49:59But says that...

00:50:00You have been completely distanced...

00:50:02From the core team...

00:50:03Which is...

00:50:03You know the reality...

00:50:04Tejasviji...

00:50:05You know the reality...

00:50:05No...

00:50:05I am just...

00:50:06I am giving you examples...

00:50:07And then you have a Rohini Acharya Ji...

00:50:09Who actually goes on to say...

00:50:10That violence was used against her...

00:50:12In her own house...

00:50:13I will tell you...

00:50:13Optics...

00:50:14No...

00:50:14Important in politics...

00:50:16Give the family to resolve things...

00:50:18On their own...

00:50:18They will resolve it...

00:50:20I know this family...

00:50:21I know Laluji...

00:50:22I know Tejasviji...

00:50:23I know all the sisters...

00:50:25They are capable of resolving it...

00:50:27On their own...

00:50:28And very soon...

00:50:29It shall be resolved...

00:50:29There is no succession battle...

00:50:31Within the family...

00:50:32I mean...

00:50:32You know...

00:50:33The propaganda that you speak...

00:50:35Of the grapevine...

00:50:36No...

00:50:37I...

00:50:38I will tell you...

00:50:39Something which we miss...

00:50:40We are in a democracy...

00:50:43Yet our terminologies...

00:50:44Are drawn from monarchy...

00:50:46What is succession?

00:50:48But it is a...

00:50:48No...

00:50:49A person who has won the election...

00:50:51Got his MLA's elected...

00:50:52Has gone into a fresh election...

00:50:54Maybe the...

00:50:55The success is not at that level...

00:50:59But at the same time...

00:51:00There is no dispute about it...

00:51:02And rest for all other things...

00:51:04People will sit down and resolve...

00:51:06I...

00:51:06I think...

00:51:07They have the maturity...

00:51:09They have the wisdom...

00:51:10Including Sivananji...

00:51:11His advices are...

00:51:13Well taken...

00:51:14No...

00:51:14When you say it is a democracy...

00:51:16And I agree...

00:51:16But I will tell you why...

00:51:17You know...

00:51:17Monarchy is brought up...

00:51:18Because when you are the chief minister...

00:51:20You step down...

00:51:21You give the chief ministership...

00:51:22To your wife...

00:51:23Then you make your son...

00:51:24You know...

00:51:25The party president...

00:51:26And the...

00:51:27You know...

00:51:28Chief minister face...

00:51:29Then one will look at it as a...

00:51:31You know...

00:51:31It's not far from a monarchy...

00:51:33I have worked on this issue...

00:51:35Not only in India...

00:51:37But in...

00:51:38Bangladesh...

00:51:39Sri Lanka...

00:51:40Pakistan...

00:51:41I will tell you something...

00:51:42There are two ways...

00:51:44Many families...

00:51:46Have disappeared...

00:51:47Their children...

00:51:49Couldn't do anything...

00:51:50Because it is not like monarchy...

00:51:53You...

00:51:53There is somebody from your family...

00:51:56Who is not successful...

00:51:57There is somebody from another family...

00:51:59Who is successful...

00:52:00Once they get people's mandate...

00:52:03It's people's choice...

00:52:05I mean...

00:52:05It's people's choice...

00:52:07And that's why I say...

00:52:08Those who speak about dynasty...

00:52:10Dynasty by...

00:52:11BGP members...

00:52:12They should have...

00:52:13Their own calendar of...

00:52:15Members...

00:52:16They will come to know...

00:52:18Many would say...

00:52:19That's why I am saying...

00:52:20That you have a lot of grace...

00:52:21Because it seems that you...

00:52:22What the grapevine suggests...

00:52:23That Manojhaji has fallen out of favor as well...

00:52:26I mean...

00:52:27You know...

00:52:28With the family...

00:52:29And I...

00:52:30I...

00:52:30What should I say...

00:52:32I don't even think...

00:52:35Like taking...

00:52:35It doesn't merit a response...

00:52:36No...

00:52:37Taking these kind of questions...

00:52:40I told you...

00:52:41Twice have been...

00:52:43I have been sent to Rajeshabha...

00:52:45There has been none...

00:52:47None of the occasion...

00:52:48When either Laluji or Tejasviji...

00:52:50Has told me...

00:52:51Manojhaji speak on this...

00:52:52On that...

00:52:54I have been...

00:52:55One of the very strong...

00:52:56Critiques of the...

00:52:58Governmental policies...

00:53:00Yet civil...

00:53:01And...

00:53:02I don't think...

00:53:03These were all perception...

00:53:05I mean...

00:53:05A section...

00:53:06May have enjoyed...

00:53:08But I had my personal anxiety...

00:53:10And that's still not over...

00:53:12My father's treatment...

00:53:14I have spent...

00:53:15Day and night...

00:53:16Two months and...

00:53:1820 days...

00:53:20In Ames Delhi...

00:53:21For three press conferences...

00:53:24I definitely went to Patna...

00:53:26Because I was feeling...

00:53:29A little guilty...

00:53:31That in this election...

00:53:32I am not there...

00:53:34So...

00:53:34This is where I want...

00:53:35Things to end...

00:53:36I am going to take...

00:53:37Ten minutes of your time...

00:53:39Manoj...

00:53:40And I want to...

00:53:40You know...

00:53:41Just move a little away...

00:53:42From...

00:53:43Bihar politics...

00:53:44I think you have been...

00:53:44You have been...

00:53:45You have taken all questions...

00:53:47And whatever your truth is...

00:53:49You have put that out...

00:53:51But Manoj...

00:53:51When you...

00:53:52Now...

00:53:53You know...

00:53:53Your term is still 2030...

00:53:55Do you see yourself in politics for long...

00:53:57Or do you think that...

00:53:57Yeah...

00:53:58I...

00:53:58If...

00:53:59If my health permits...

00:54:00If everything is fine...

00:54:01I love teaching also...

00:54:03I have...

00:54:03I have my teaching left in the university...

00:54:05You are one of the very few...

00:54:07Who have refused...

00:54:08A salary of the Rajya Sabhai MP...

00:54:10And continue to...

00:54:11You know...

00:54:11Because...

00:54:11This time...

00:54:13It has been little longer...

00:54:14That I have not been able to go to my university...

00:54:16And take classes...

00:54:17I will...

00:54:18I wish to continue in politics...

00:54:20No...

00:54:21A doubt about it...

00:54:23And...

00:54:24I will speak on...

00:54:26Those values...

00:54:27Which I have spoken...

00:54:28Many times...

00:54:30People make criticism of that...

00:54:32But...

00:54:32I...

00:54:34Listen to them...

00:54:35But I would stick to...

00:54:37Those constitutional values...

00:54:39Which guide me...

00:54:40I will not stop on...

00:54:42Talking about...

00:54:42Fraternity...

00:54:44Which is...

00:54:44I believe...

00:54:45Is under threat in India...

00:54:47Equality...

00:54:48Justice...

00:54:50Whether in parliament...

00:54:52Or outside parliament...

00:54:53I will keep writing...

00:54:55I will keep speaking about it...

00:54:57You know...

00:54:57For someone who is...

00:54:58And I am...

00:54:59You know...

00:54:59I am sorry...

00:55:00But you know...

00:55:00This is the nature of...

00:55:02The game...

00:55:03That one has to sometimes...

00:55:05Speak of caste...

00:55:05You are upper caste...

00:55:06And you have spoken...

00:55:08Very eloquently...

00:55:10About caste dynamics...

00:55:11And equality in this country...

00:55:13And two years ago...

00:55:14With one poem...

00:55:15That you recited...

00:55:17On the floor of the parliament...

00:55:18Actually accorded you security...

00:55:20Is this how bad things are?

00:55:21Look...

00:55:21Things are...

00:55:23Very murky and bad...

00:55:24The poem you said...

00:55:27I wish I could show you...

00:55:29I read a book...

00:55:30A few years back...

00:55:31White man's...

00:55:32It was about Thakur's...

00:55:33No...

00:55:34It's a different book...

00:55:35I am telling you...

00:55:35Okay...

00:55:36White man's privilege...

00:55:38Then I wrote a piece...

00:55:40A very long piece...

00:55:42In a newspaper...

00:55:43Which...

00:55:45Made...

00:55:45Became much more longer...

00:55:47In my book...

00:55:48Which was recently published...

00:55:49In praise of coalition politics...

00:55:52I wrote about...

00:55:55Coming from upper caste...

00:55:56We have certain privileges...

00:55:59Which are deliberately...

00:56:02Hidden from us...

00:56:03Or we don't wish to look at those privileges...

00:56:06In line with the...

00:56:07A privileged white man...

00:56:09Before that poem...

00:56:11You know something...

00:56:13When we are dealing with this...

00:56:14What's up universe...

00:56:16That poem is not mine...

00:56:19That poem is based...

00:56:21On a short story by...

00:56:23Primchan...

00:56:24That short story...

00:56:26Inspired...

00:56:27A poet...

00:56:28A Dalit poet...

00:56:29Who wrote that poem...

00:56:31And I...

00:56:32Was still conscious of my society...

00:56:35I said...

00:56:37Those features are within me also...

00:56:39Could be within me...

00:56:40We need to...

00:56:42Fight or root out...

00:56:44Those features of dominance...

00:56:46That was my idea...

00:56:47I have spoken about Periyar...

00:56:50In parliament...

00:56:52His Sachi Rama and Periyar...

00:56:53Periyar...

00:56:54Periyar has a different world view...

00:56:56I agree...

00:56:57I have spoken about it...

00:57:00If I cannot speak about...

00:57:02Dominance...

00:57:02And what dominance has done...

00:57:04What caste privilege means...

00:57:06To upper caste...

00:57:07Or what Periyar means...

00:57:09To look at...

00:57:11Things in an alternative manner...

00:57:13Which is more inclusive...

00:57:14Which is more justice oriented...

00:57:16I think it would be...

00:57:17Civilizational crime...

00:57:19I might have had difficult time...

00:57:22At a personal level...

00:57:23But...

00:57:24I think...

00:57:25That much of a risk...

00:57:27I'll...

00:57:27I'll tell you something...

00:57:29I'm an...

00:57:29This person...

00:57:31Is Paulo Freire...

00:57:33A Brazilian educator...

00:57:35He has written books...

00:57:37Pedagogy of the Oppressed...

00:57:38Pedagogy of Hope...

00:57:40In Pedagogy of Hope...

00:57:41Paulo Freire says...

00:57:43Thus those who swim against the current...

00:57:47Cannot expect holidays on tropical beaches...

00:57:50That has been my...

00:57:53That's a...

00:57:54Yeah...

00:57:54That's a...

00:57:55I...

00:57:56I want to ask you...

00:57:57Manoji...

00:57:58A as a parliamentarian...

00:58:00And...

00:58:01B...

00:58:02As a teacher...

00:58:03A professor...

00:58:04If you have to recommend...

00:58:05Two or three speeches...

00:58:06In parliament...

00:58:07That the new generation should...

00:58:09Listen to...

00:58:10And if you have to recommend...

00:58:11A couple of books...

00:58:12That kids must read today...

00:58:14I'm sure you do it very often...

00:58:15Yeah...

00:58:16So...

00:58:16I'll tell you...

00:58:18My foremost would be...

00:58:21That people...

00:58:23Must read Nehru...

00:58:26Hmm...

00:58:27They would understand many things...

00:58:30History...

00:58:31Nehru is a very divisive figure today...

00:58:33It...

00:58:34I mean...

00:58:34That tells you...

00:58:35Your society...

00:58:36Our society has become divisive...

00:58:38So you're saying Nehru...

00:58:40Read Nehru...

00:58:41I'll tell you...

00:58:42Nehru...

00:58:43One must read...

00:58:45One must read Nehru...

00:58:47Then...

00:58:47I would say...

00:58:49Ambedkar...

00:58:49Annihilation of Caste...

00:58:51Yeah...

00:58:52Everybody...

00:58:53Should...

00:58:54Read...

00:58:55Annihilation of Caste...

00:58:57And...

00:58:58One book...

00:59:00Which I suggest...

00:59:01Maybe...

00:59:02For you...

00:59:04The English...

00:59:05Listening audience...

00:59:06This book may not be...

00:59:07No...

00:59:08This is available in English also...

00:59:10I would say...

00:59:11Aadha Gaon by Rahim Masoom Raza...

00:59:14Aadha Gaon by Rahim Masoom Raza...

00:59:17Okay...

00:59:17That's...

00:59:18I'm going to pick up the last one...

00:59:19I haven't read the last one...

00:59:20I've...

00:59:20Okay...

00:59:21So these three you would...

00:59:22You would recommend...

00:59:23To begin with...

00:59:24To begin with...

00:59:25And in Parliament...

00:59:26Some of the best speeches...

00:59:27People should actually go back and...

00:59:28Professor Hirayan Mukherjee...

00:59:30Meenu Masani...

00:59:31Peelu Modi...

00:59:32Ram Manohar Lohiya...

00:59:34I would...

00:59:40I would...

00:59:41And some of the speeches...

00:59:45If they wish to read...

00:59:48I could suggest...

00:59:50Gladstone...

00:59:51UK...

00:59:53Edmund Burke...

00:59:54Right...

00:59:56Okay...

00:59:57I...

00:59:58Manojifur...

00:59:59Any regrets...

01:00:00When you look back?

01:00:04There are many...

01:00:05Give one...

01:00:05There are...

01:00:06I mean...

01:00:06It's very difficult...

01:00:07You know...

01:00:08Regrets at...

01:00:09Many level...

01:00:10Is personal also...

01:00:12Okay...

01:00:12So...

01:00:13Maybe...

01:00:14The day I...

01:00:16Feel I'll write...

01:00:17Are you writing a book?

01:00:18I just finished...

01:00:19No...

01:00:20Something of your own...

01:00:21I'm thinking...

01:00:22I'm thinking...

01:00:23I'm thinking of...

01:00:24Writing...

01:00:25Because there are...

01:00:25Many things in my mind...

01:00:26Which I...

01:00:27And...

01:00:28I'll tell you...

01:00:29There is another...

01:00:32Aspect...

01:00:33I have two daughters...

01:00:35And since their...

01:00:36First birthday...

01:00:40I'm...

01:00:40I write a letter to them...

01:00:42On their birthdays...

01:00:43Now that is beautiful...

01:00:45And I plan to...

01:00:47Publish it...

01:00:49Maybe...

01:00:49Other parents would also...

01:00:51Understand the dilemma...

01:00:52Yeah...

01:00:53You must...

01:00:53So I'm planning to...

01:00:54You must...

01:00:55And I think that's also...

01:00:56Very good thought...

01:00:57For other parents...

01:00:58You know...

01:00:58To keep connected...

01:00:59In trans generations...

01:01:00Many a time...

01:01:01I'll tell you...

01:01:01I was travelling...

01:01:02I was in Kerala...

01:01:04And her birthday...

01:01:05Was the next day...

01:01:06And I was under pressure...

01:01:08But I wrote that letter...

01:01:09In the flight...

01:01:10And these are not...

01:01:11Personal letters only...

01:01:12That between a father...

01:01:13And a daughter...

01:01:15These are the letters...

01:01:16Reflective of the times...

01:01:18So if I wrote a letter in 2000...

01:01:21What it was in 2000...

01:01:24Because she was...

01:01:25Just born...

01:01:26And then...

01:01:28If I...

01:01:29Write to her...

01:01:30In 2025...

01:01:31How things have changed...

01:01:32So it's a bit of...

01:01:34Do your kids critique you?

01:01:36Do your kids critique you?

01:01:38Many a time...

01:01:39Many a time...

01:01:39What was the last time?

01:01:40People also critique me...

01:01:42For instance...

01:01:42I'll tell you...

01:01:43I've learnt a lot...

01:01:45Many things...

01:01:46From my students...

01:01:47My kids...

01:01:48My wife...

01:01:49My family members...

01:01:51My ideas on third gender...

01:01:54They have shaped me...

01:01:56My students have taught me...

01:01:59What was your idea...

01:02:00Of the third gender...

01:02:01Which has changed?

01:02:01Virtually I had no idea...

01:02:03I had...

01:02:04I had a kind of blindness...

01:02:06My students in...

01:02:08MA classroom...

01:02:09They taught you?

01:02:10They taught me...

01:02:11That's super...

01:02:12They taught me feminism...

01:02:14I mean...

01:02:15Feminism as a theory...

01:02:16I knew...

01:02:17But I didn't know...

01:02:18How much of a man...

01:02:19With all capital is in me...

01:02:22All capital...

01:02:24And if you scratch...

01:02:25Any man in India...

01:02:27Even those who say...

01:02:28I'm a feminist...

01:02:29By temperament...

01:02:30By attitude...

01:02:31There is a man still there...

01:02:33Man with capital M-A-N...

01:02:36And...

01:02:37It is possible...

01:02:38If you engage with your kids...

01:02:40With your students...

01:02:41And...

01:02:42Perceive that teaching is not...

01:02:44A monologue...

01:02:46It's a dialogue...

01:02:47That's a good way of looking at it...

01:02:50And I'm glad...

01:02:51You know...

01:02:52What you've imbibed...

01:02:52Because most people...

01:02:53You know...

01:02:53It's not about...

01:02:54You know...

01:02:54Just age or time...

01:02:56But they're just not open to it...

01:02:57Yes...

01:02:57Very young...

01:02:58Men...

01:02:58Women are not open to a dialogue...

01:03:00You're very clear of what your views are...

01:03:02I'm glad you're...

01:03:02Saying that you've imbibed these...

01:03:04My final question...

01:03:05Manojji...

01:03:07You know...

01:03:09For someone who's such a student of history...

01:03:11Who's such a student of reading...

01:03:12If you had to...

01:03:14Cross eras...

01:03:15If Manojji tonight was holding a dinner...

01:03:18And could invite three people for dinner...

01:03:20For a conversation...

01:03:21And they could come from...

01:03:23You know...

01:03:24Any part of history...

01:03:25Present to the...

01:03:27You know...

01:03:27As long as you want to go back...

01:03:28Who would those three be?

01:03:29You won't believe...

01:03:31I...

01:03:31One would be...

01:03:34Trotsky...

01:03:37Okay...

01:03:38And...

01:03:39Another would be...

01:03:40Trotsky's biographer...

01:03:42Ajaqdusha...

01:03:43And third would be...

01:03:50Dinner...

01:03:52Yeah...

01:03:53You can do drinks also...

01:03:54No...

01:03:54It's up to you...

01:03:55Dinner...

01:03:55Trotsky...

01:03:57Ajaqdusha...

01:03:57And the third...

01:04:00Could be...

01:04:01Any day...

01:04:01Jawah Lalehru...

01:04:03Jawah Lalehru...

01:04:03In this company...

01:04:04In this company...

01:04:05Yeah...

01:04:06No...

01:04:06Interesting...

01:04:07No Laluji yet...

01:04:08I mean...

01:04:09They are all alive...

01:04:10Oh...

01:04:11They have just gone back...

01:04:12You've gone back...

01:04:13But interesting...

01:04:14And what's the conversation...

01:04:15You're going to be the medium...

01:04:16The interlocutor between the...

01:04:18You know...

01:04:18They all had a very...

01:04:20Strong...

01:04:21Sense...

01:04:21Or understanding of fascism...

01:04:24That was...

01:04:24That would be the common thread of that conversation...

01:04:26Can you allow me to get one more person...

01:04:29Of course...

01:04:29I'll allow you to get two or three...

01:04:31Because the table...

01:04:31Because the table is of five...

01:04:33Ha...

01:04:33Okay...

01:04:34With me there are four...

01:04:35Ha...

01:04:35So one would be Antonio Gramsci...

01:04:38Why...

01:04:39Italian Marxist...

01:04:41Okay...

01:04:42So that completes the...

01:04:43Gramsci and Trotsky...

01:04:44Trotsky was also a Marxist...

01:04:46Which is...

01:04:47Who is not liked by many Marxists in India...

01:04:50But I...

01:04:51I admire his work...

01:04:54Manuji...

01:04:54That's a...

01:04:55That's very interesting conversation...

01:04:57But...

01:04:57You know...

01:04:57I always love asking this as a final question...

01:05:00Because it gives you so much insight...

01:05:01On a person that you've just interviewed...

01:05:03But thank you...

01:05:04For taking the time out...

01:05:05Is there anything...

01:05:05Thank you so much...

01:05:06Anything that you'd want to say...

01:05:07You know...

01:05:08We're going to...

01:05:08Anything...

01:05:09No...

01:05:09Parting short...

01:05:10Or anything that you'd like to add...

01:05:12Before we end...

01:05:12It was a very nice conversation...

01:05:15I want...

01:05:16Conversation here...

01:05:17In our streets...

01:05:18In our colleges...

01:05:20In my parliament...

01:05:21To remain as civil...

01:05:23As it was...

01:05:23We disagreed on many things...

01:05:26True...

01:05:26You did not agree to many things I said...

01:05:28I did not agree...

01:05:29The way you framed the question...

01:05:32But then...

01:05:32It was civil...

01:05:33And that is what...

01:05:35Our democracy is lacking these days...

01:05:37Our parliament is lacking...

01:05:39Dialogue...

01:05:40Thank you Manuji...

01:05:41Thank you...

01:05:42Thank you Manuji...

01:05:44Thank you Manuji...

01:05:45Thank you Manuji...

01:05:46Thank you Manuji...

01:05:47Thank you Manuji...

01:05:48Thank you Manuji...

01:05:49Thank you Manuji...

01:05:50Thank you Manuji...

01:05:51Thank you Manuji...

01:05:52Thank you Manuji...

01:05:53Thank you Manuji...

01:05:54Thank you Manuji...

01:05:55Thank you Manuji...

01:05:56Thank you Manuji...

01:05:57Thank you Manuji...

01:05:58Thank you Manuji...

Why no one talks about Manipur? Manoj Jha says real 'jungle raj' exists there

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