00:00So, Gemma, let's talk a little bit about that, because we've obviously seen lots of plans about plans,
00:05and we've never reached a ceasefire agreement.
00:08Sticking details are still obviously the same as they've been for a long time.
00:13Do you think Ukraine is going to have to put up its hands and give away some territory and say,
00:18OK, this is the only option we have on the table, we're still getting bombarded by Russia, we're losing people?
00:25Apparently, according to reports today, Provosk, a very, very strategically important place, Russia claims they have.
00:33I mean, Ukraine are kind of backed into a corner.
00:36I do wonder here if we've got what does Ukraine want to do and what might they ultimately be forced to do once they're brought to the table?
00:45Because at the moment, they're not at the table again.
00:48Neither is Europe, this is just US and Russia talking.
00:51Now, territory has always been the biggest and most contentious issue, and as you said, it has not changed since the very start.
00:59No one's budged at all on this, and Zelensky has been very firm.
01:03He's called it the territory is the most difficult, you know, subject that they're moving around.
01:08Now, he has repeatedly said, he hasn't changed his tune either, that he's not going to, you know, cede any territory.
01:15There are reasons for him, you know, sticking to this.
01:21If he cedes territory to Russia, it could further embolden Russia to think we have this territory, you know, where are we going to look next?
01:29It's not what the majority of Ukrainians want.
01:32It's not what, you know, the people he represents want.
01:34Now, implementing this, say they cede territory, the amount of administrative, legal, security, humanitarian issues, this will go on for years and years and years.
01:48What all of those issues will throw up if territories are given to Russia or returned to Russia, however you see it.
01:56Now, as you said earlier, the fears are that this peace plan is going to be more favourable to Russia.
02:04What we could see then is stronger ties, again, between the US and Russia, which would put Europe kind of out.
02:14Europe's kind of not at the table anyway, but perhaps further away from the table.
02:19Europe has a lot of fears, namely that this plan is not going to weaken Russia or prevent them from looking further afield next time.
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