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The top focus of this episode of India First is Prime Minister Narendra Modi's scathing attack on the Congress in Rajya Sabha on Thursday.
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00:00Good evening, it was a no-holds-barred, fiery attack by Prime Minister Narendra Modi in Rajya Sabha.
00:10Remember, he wasn't allowed to speak in Lok Sabha with the opposition women MPs ganging up and speaker,
00:18Om Brilla, advising him not to come.
00:20But in Rajya Sabha, the Prime Minister, from Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru to Indira Gandhi,
00:26down to the current leadership of the Congress, launched a frontal attack.
00:32The opposition, of course, staged a walkout.
00:34But this was a no-holds-barred.
00:36He took a direct jive at the opposition.
00:38He slammed what he described as political greed, lack of vision and lack of intent of the Congress when the Congress was in power.
00:46He hit out virtually at everything from the rants of Modi, Teri, Kabra Kudevi to leader of opposition Rahul Gandhi's traitor remark
00:56against BJP leader and Minister of State for Railways, Ravneet Singh Bittu.
01:03He said, the Prime Minister said, this is an attack on Sikhs and not just on one member who may have changed his ideology from the Congress to the BJP.
01:12Clear, this was one area where the Prime Minister, one after the other, launched one attack after the other.
01:21Take a look.
01:21Prime Minister Modi's fiery Rajasabha address.
01:36Prime Minister mocks Congress's Modi's qabar dreams.
01:40Yuvraj Rahul slammed over Gaddar Jive.
01:58Congress attacked for lack of vision and intent.
02:17Modi vs. Opposition.
02:40Who is putting India first?
02:42Prime Minister reigns fire in Rajasabha.
02:54That is our top focus on India first.
03:01And this was a multi-pronged offensive from Modi, Teri, Kabra Kudevi, Modi, your grave will be dug or words to that effect.
03:09That was a rant, that was a chant, that was revived to the Prime Minister explaining why the Congress wanted his grave dug.
03:18Because he said, he's targeting Pakistan state-sponsored radical Islamist terror.
03:23And that he had put the Indus Waters Treaty that was being held in abeyance.
03:27And before the Prime Minister spoke, in Lok Sabha, Prime Minister spoke at Rajasabha.
03:31In Lok Sabha, Speaker Om Birla said, today was a dark day in parliamentary democracy with six opposition MPs,
03:37plotting to target the Prime Minister in Lok Sabha.
03:40So clearly, this is a no-holds-barred battle between the Treasury benches and the opposition.
03:45And that's our top focus story.
03:47I'm Gaurav Sawant.
03:48Coming up at 8.30 tonight is an India Today exclusive interview with Professor Jeffrey Sachs,
03:54where he says, America has blinked, the Indian Prime Minister held his ground with the tariffs or the Indo-US deal,
04:04likely to be announced over next several days, likely to be inked over next several days.
04:08Now, what's the bigger picture?
04:10We get to that story at 8.30 tonight.
04:12I'm Gaurav Sawant.
04:13Let's get started with the headlines on India First.
04:16PM goes out all guns blazing in his nearly 100-minute-long speech.
04:25And Rajasabha slams Congress over Kabru Khudegi chant and Ghaddar jive at Union Minister.
04:31Rahul Gandhi hits back with scared of truth attack.
04:34Big claim by Lok Sabha Speaker Om Birla after the Prime Minister's speech was derailed in Lok Sabha in Parliament
04:47says it was he who advised the Prime Minister to skip the speech
04:52as Congress allegedly plotted to target the Prime Minister.
04:55Three teenagers, screens and a deadly K-addiction.
05:05Ghaziabad triple suicide shocks the nation.
05:08Sorry, mummy. Sorry, papa.
05:10Their last words, intense fixation with Korean pop culture
05:14and deep anxiety around the idea of marriage.
05:18After AR Rehman's communal bias remark, veteran actor Nasiruddin Shah targets Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
05:31Nasiruddin Shah calls the Prime Minister self-proclaimed wishful guru,
05:35says Modi has not done anything in 10 years.
05:39And ahead of the T20 World Cup kicking off,
05:47Captain Surya Kumar Yadav breaks silence on Pakistan's planned boycott of the match with India
05:53insists the men in blue are ready to take to the field on the day of the match.
05:58This was a pinpointed attack by the Prime Minister.
06:12Some are describing it as a surgical strike targeting the opposition.
06:18Fiercely hitting out at the opposition that had raised Modi-Teri Kabra Khudegi slogans in the past.
06:23The Prime Minister revived it.
06:25And he had a sharp counter.
06:26He said those who are uncomfortable with his actions,
06:29with the development path that India is taking,
06:32with the targeting of Pakistan's state-sponsored radical Islamist terror,
06:36with terrorists being hit at home in Pakistan,
06:39with the Indus Waters Treaty being held in a bench.
06:42All of these are the reasons, including Article 370 being scrapped
06:45to the development that's taking place in the Northeast.
06:48And he gave the example of that very crucial, that strategic bogey wheel bridge
06:52that was to be made for decades,
06:55but finally made when he became the Prime Minister
06:58to the end of Maoist, the Red Terror, in the Red Corridor.
07:03So he said all of these are reasons why the opposition,
07:07especially the Congress, that cannot defeat him in elections,
07:10now they've seen this in three elections,
07:12the only way they can target him is to pray or chant
07:16that he'll be sent to his grave.
07:19Listen in.
07:19Let's see.
07:21। । । । । । ।
07:51। । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । । ।
08:21प्रतिविंब है कि इसकी अभिव्यक्ति है और वे इसलिए है हमने
08:31कि 370 की दिवार गिरादी इसलिए कि मोदी की कब्रखो दना चाहिए
08:38कि हमने कि नौर्थ इसमें बंबंदूक और आतंका जो चाहा बना रहता था नौर्थ इसमें शांती और विकास का राह अपनाई इसलिए
08:57वो मोदी की कब्रखो दने पर सोच रहे हैं पाकिस्तानी आतंकियों को घर में गुश करके जवाब देते हैं इसलिए
09:10मोदी की कब्रखो दने की बात है आप्रेशन सिंदूर करते हैं इसकी उनको परेशानी होती है और इसलिए
09:24temperatures
09:36of parliament,
09:37the manner
09:37in which
09:38leader of
09:38opposition
09:39Rahul Gandhi
09:39when he
09:40was sitting
09:40with those
09:40suspended
09:41MPs
09:41and other
09:42opposition
09:42leaders
09:42and when
09:43union
09:43minister of
09:44state
09:44for railways
09:45he was
09:46crossing
09:46by the
09:47verbal
09:49altercation
09:49that
09:50took
09:50place
09:50from
09:51my
09:51traitor
09:52friend
09:52to Desh ke Dushman. Prime Minister Narendra Modi, he picked on that. And he said, the
09:58leader of opposition calling a Sikh member of parliament Ghadaar or traitor wasn't calling
10:06one individual that. According to the Prime Minister, that shows the hatred for Sikhs.
10:12Listen in to the Prime Minister. I'll get you more on the story.
10:22You've said that in the war, the Khashoggi had reached their hands.
10:30How many people have been there in the war?
10:36And, how many people have left the Congress. How many people have left the Congress.
10:43Some people have gone on the other side. But they have never said that.
10:48So the Prime Minister believes the opposition and especially the Congress is targeting him
11:17because he's delivering on development.
11:20And it's not just the BJP that's being targeted, it's the Prime Minister specifically.
11:24The opposition remains up in arms.
11:26The Congress has hit back saying the Prime Minister is actually hiding behind the bogey
11:30of Lok Sabha Speaker Om Birla saying that women MPs were out to target him,
11:35saying there's no question of attacking the Prime Minister.
11:39But is there clearly no middle ground now between the Treasury benches
11:42and the opposition in the rest of the budget session?
11:45Joining me on India first is Aishwarya Mahadev, National Spokesperson of the Congress Party.
11:49Rohan Gupta represents the Bharatiya Janata Party, National Spokesperson of the BJP.
11:53Shubhrasta is a political analyst.
11:56Sanjay Jha also joins us on this show as a political analyst.
11:59Also joining me is Advaita Kala, author and analyst.
12:03But Aishwarya, let me begin by asking you.
12:05Prime Minister says the Congress wants to dig his grave.
12:08Modi teri kabra khudegi.
12:10Because electorally, the Congress can no longer defeat him.
12:13Because he's hit terror at source, put Indus Waters' treaty in abeyance and he's put out a long list.
12:19His development agenda is the reason why the Congress wants him in his grave.
12:25Good evening, Gaurav.
12:28I have to make one remark.
12:30I thought that speech was absolutely brilliant, except that Prime Minister Modi is not sitting in opposition.
12:37He is the Prime Minister of the nation.
12:40And while he can sit and make his entire speech attacking the opposition for intent for absolutely nothing having happened before 2014,
12:49there are a few things he's very, very definitively deflecting from.
12:54And that happens to be the problem.
12:56First of all, you talk about a few things about how development is so great.
13:00The budget was brilliant.
13:01How much of it did the Prime Minister actually talk about?
13:04How much of it of his schemes?
13:06How much of the utilization?
13:08How much of the development did he actually talk about?
13:10His entire speech cornered around, we're doing well.
13:14And the people before us were very, very bad.
13:16And all we're trying to do is fix it.
13:1811 years on, is that a fair enough response, Gaurav?
13:21Shouting Viksit Bharat without telling you what it even means is not policy.
13:26It is basically pandering to the masses of these ideas and ideals of what we're going to implement,
13:33while none of it has actually been done in reality.
13:36And Gaurav, just a few observations, right?
13:38You know, they talk about vision and intent of the Congress not being there.
13:43Even if I concede, even if I say the Green Revolution did not happen,
13:46even if I say that India under the UPA was able to walk away with a trade deal without,
13:51the nuclear deal rather, without signing the 67's NPT and still was seen as a global powerhouse,
13:57even conceding the IT boom didn't happen on Narega, which also saved lives during COVID,
14:01did not happen.
14:02Tell me what is Prime Minister Modi doing differently?
14:05His PM, Kisan Yojana, he spoke about.
14:07But what about rural lives, rural livelihood, rural housing?
14:10Have you seen the massive drop in the budget utilization?
14:14You talk about how your revenue deficit is under control.
14:17Yes.
14:17Have you seen the amount of money that you've cut from crucial social sector spending?
14:23The Prime Minister can talk everything he wants about how he's being attacked.
14:27He can attack the Congress for everything he wants.
14:29But as a Prime Minister, tell us, besides that one bridge he spoke about,
14:34while seven bridges collapsed in NDA Bihar and one in Vadodara itself,
14:38tell me, what is the substantial development that Prime Minister Modi even spoke about?
14:43His speech was a position leader and he needs to move past that
14:47and talk about what exactly is the development in the country today, Gaurav.
14:51Fair enough.
14:52Rohan Gupta, respond.
14:53Congress says this is pure diversionary tactics.
14:56This is pure deflection.
14:58It's all about the Prime Minister's intent and it's not about development
15:02except the bogey wheel bridge.
15:04Respond, sir.
15:08I think I have a little bad network.
15:10So, in case I'm not able to communicate properly,
15:13just give me time after two minutes.
15:15See, the point here is,
15:16if there is an issue of narrative with the ruling party,
15:20then why the leader of opposition has to divert the topic
15:23from the President's thank address to the other issues?
15:25Congress is completely issueless.
15:28They could have spoken on budget.
15:29They could have spoken on what is wrong in budget.
15:31But no, the whole country is watching.
15:33Who has derailed the complete session?
15:35It is the leader of opposition because he had no issue.
15:38And that is why the personal attack on Modiji.
15:40And the whole world is watching the way India is growing,
15:43the GDP numbers,
15:43overall growth numbers,
15:45the overall atmosphere.
15:46And still, if it's Congress,
15:47it's not ready to believe it.
15:49It is the issue with Congress.
15:50And I completely agree.
15:51As an opposition party,
15:53you must criticize the government.
15:54You must ask the questions.
15:56But when you had opportunity to ask the question in Parliament,
15:59what you did?
15:59You derailed it.
16:00You went somewhere else.
16:01You ensured that the ruckus happened
16:03so that you don't have to answer
16:04because you don't have the questions.
16:06You want to quickly take that, Sanjay Jha?
16:10You want to quickly take that
16:12because it's the job of the opposition
16:14to criticize the government.
16:15But this particular discussion
16:18was in response to the presidential address.
16:22The prime minister was to respond.
16:24But before that,
16:24the Congress or the other opposition had to...
16:27The BJP says Rahul Gandhi completely derailed it,
16:30took it altogether in a different direction
16:32and not on some of the issues
16:33that Aishwarya has just raised, sir.
16:36Sir, you're on mute.
16:42Request you to unmute yourself, sir.
16:44Can you hear me now?
16:46Strength five, go on, sir.
16:47Okay.
16:48Rahul Gandhi, as the leader of the opposition
16:50under the section, I think, 349,
16:54has all a legitimate right to speak on anything
16:57that he believes is of national importance,
17:00especially when the president's address
17:03national security was raised.
17:05Number two, you had a BJP MP
17:08who made extremely disparaging remarks,
17:10which is the usual BJP obsession
17:12about the Congress's role in nationalism.
17:14I don't think the BJP is very embarrassed even today,
17:17has a serious inferiority complex
17:19because the Congress was part of the freedom struggle
17:22and the BJP was, and their forefathers weren't.
17:24But let's cut to the chase and come to the core point.
17:28Mr. Modi actually criticized Rahul Gandhi
17:31for hurting the sentiments of Sikhs
17:34and said that he is calling the Sikhs a traitor.
17:37Now, I have a lot of friends who are, frankly,
17:39from the Sikh community,
17:41and I personally took great offense to what Mr. Modi said.
17:44I'll tell you why.
17:45Because, unfortunately for Mr. Modi,
17:48I was a very active spokesperson for the Congress
17:50when Mr. Modi's party had to issue an apology.
17:54And let me read out to you and tell you
17:56that Mr. Modi forgot
17:58that the man he insulted amongst the Sikhs
18:01was no ordinary Sikh.
18:03He insulted Dr. Manmohan Singh.
18:05And guess what Mr. Modi called Dr. Manmohan Singh?
18:08He called Dr. Manmohan Singh a traitor.
18:11I'm going to prove to the viewers of India today
18:14how Mr. Modi has lied on the floor of parliament.
18:18And let me take 30 seconds to read to you
18:20what Dr. Manmohan Singh, in writing,
18:23said to the Prime Minister.
18:25Just hear me out.
18:25It'll take 30 seconds.
18:27Dear Prime Minister,
18:29I'm writing this letter to express my deep anguish
18:32and disappointment over your ill-informed
18:35and unfortunate remarks about me
18:38and a former army chief.
18:41Your attempt to politicize national security
18:44and to level false allegations against me
18:47is deeply regrettable and unacceptable.
18:50To allege that I was conspiring with Pakistan
18:53or compromising the nation's interest
18:56is complete falsehood.
18:58Last to Paris.
18:59No Prime Minister has ever made such baseless allegations
19:03against a former Prime Minister.
19:05These remarks are not only factually wrong
19:08but also lower the dignity of the office he occupies.
19:10Last paragraph, Gaurab.
19:12Sir, if I may, if this is in connection with the Syachin Glacier,
19:16I have myself done in India today cover.
19:18It is not, it is not, it is not, it is not.
19:20Don't interrupt me.
19:21This is about the allegations that Mr. Modi made
19:25during the 2017 Gujarat elections
19:28where he insinuated that Dr. Manmohan Singh,
19:31Mani Shankar Ayer, army chiefs,
19:33were planning to make a Mia
19:35as the Chief Minister of Gujarat.
19:37Let me come to the last paragraph.
19:38It will shame Mr. Modi.
19:40It will shame the BJP.
19:42And my dear friend Rohan has probably nowhere to hide.
19:45Let me read the last paragraph.
19:46Public discourse during elections
19:48must remain civil and respectful.
19:51It is unbecoming of a sitting Prime Minister
19:53to make such insinuations
19:55that undermine the integrity of those
19:57who have served the nation faithfully.
19:59Guess what Dr. Manmohan...
20:00Rahul, you wanted to respond.
20:01Guess what Dr. Manmohan says last night.
20:04I regret, I urge you to retract your statement
20:06and apologize to the nation.
20:08Rohan Gupta wants to respond
20:10before I bring in Advaita and Subrasta.
20:13Just a small comment about saying Sanjay.
20:15See, generally, I agree or disagree with Sanjay.
20:19But one thing I always had in mind
20:21that Sanjay will call sped or sped.
20:24Do you, Sanjay, advocate somebody
20:26calling some minister traitor on face of it
20:29and that is also leader of opposition?
20:30Do you justify that act?
20:32I am asking a very simple basic question today.
20:35At least you criticize that.
20:36You cannot be...
20:37You know, just keep mum on that.
20:39You definitely...
20:40We are in politics.
20:41We can differ with each other.
20:42Definitely political allegations can be made.
20:44But on the face of somebody calling a traitor
20:47in the parliament building
20:48to buy LOP,
20:50do you feel that is justified
20:51by any means or any standards, Sanjay?
20:53Is it about one individual, Subrasta?
20:57You know, Rahul Gandhi
20:59and the Congress party is making it very clear
21:01that it was Rahul Gandhi on Ravneet Bittu
21:05who was earlier with the Congress
21:06then shifted to the BJP.
21:08So he's a traitor according to the Congress
21:10to the cause and ideology of the Congress.
21:13It's nothing to do with the Sikh community.
21:15It's only to do with one individual.
21:19However, even the Prime Minister, Subrasta,
21:20said it's about the Sikh community
21:22being called a traitor.
21:27You're on mute, ma'am.
21:28I haven't muted myself.
21:31Can you hear me?
21:32Strength five, go on, ma'am.
21:34Yes.
21:35So I think the way you explained the situation right now,
21:39I wish Rahul Gandhi had put it out
21:40as clearly as you explained it right now.
21:43I don't think that kind of clarification came from him.
21:46If there is anybody there who needs to apologize,
21:49it is Mr. Rahul Gandhi
21:50who should really come out and say what he clearly meant
21:53because if he really meant, you know,
21:55by Gaddaar, he meant Gaddaar of Congress,
21:57he should just come and say that.
21:59What's the problem?
21:59Instead of making a, you know,
22:01a mountain out of a molehill,
22:02he can just, you know, do a press conference
22:04because he's quite media friendly, I've heard.
22:07And that's the narrative that's floating around,
22:09floated around by the Congress
22:10and the Congress sympathizers.
22:12He can do a press conference and say that,
22:13well, I apologize to Mr. Modi and the BJP
22:16and BJP supporters and the RSS
22:18and whoever, whoever they feel are their adversaries
22:20that my speech being read in a wrong light.
22:23And I actually meant Gaddaar of Congress
22:25rather than Gaddaar of India.
22:26It's as simple as that.
22:28But he wouldn't do that.
22:29Is it as simple as that?
22:30Or is the Prime Minister saying that,
22:32no, this is a mindset,
22:33that that regret could have been
22:35there on the floor of the House today,
22:37it could have been outside the House today,
22:39that didn't mean Gaddaar,
22:41didn't call the Sikh community Gaddaars,
22:43it was only meant Gaddaar of the Congress ideology.
22:47But he said it's arrogance
22:48that even that did not happen today.
22:50In fact, the Congress has doubled down on it
22:51with other remarks being made
22:53according to the BJP, madam.
22:55But that's the,
22:56but that has always been the situation
22:58in case of a, you know,
22:59political verbal slugfest like this.
23:01Congress has never ever come out in the open
23:04to say that, well, Rahul Gandhi
23:05might fall short on communication.
23:07Maybe he's not comfortable in,
23:09you know, in Hindi.
23:10And every time he tries to make a speech in Hindi,
23:13he makes a popa.
23:14So, why can't, you know,
23:16people just come out and explain...
23:17Advaita into this conversation.
23:19Advaita, did the Prime Minister,
23:21you know, if a paper was hurled
23:23in the direction of the presiding officer,
23:25he said, this is not insult of an MP from Assam,
23:28it's the insult of Assamese people.
23:30If it's an MP from Andhra Pradesh,
23:32the Prime Minister said,
23:33it's insulting people of Andhra.
23:35Or if it's the President's address,
23:38he said, it's insulting the tribals.
23:39Is he kind of extending that conversation
23:42because there are elections in Assam
23:44and next year in Punjab?
23:47Is he making political capital
23:48out of a political slugfest?
23:51You know, there are two ways to look at this.
23:53Of course, you know,
23:54the Prime Minister is a politician.
23:56You know, that is part of his identity.
23:57That is going to be part of his rhetoric.
23:59I don't think that we need to
24:00necessarily split hair over that
24:02because you can look into his motivation
24:05from both angles.
24:06That of being a politician
24:08and that of also being the elected
24:10head of a state.
24:12And he's absolutely right
24:14in making those parallels
24:15of other people sitting in those chairs,
24:18being representatives of their areas,
24:21be it their communities,
24:22be it their region,
24:23be it their linguistic identity.
24:25They are representing that
24:27in the floor of the house
24:28because all of us cannot be there.
24:31So they are going in our stead
24:33and representing our many identities
24:35as well as our concerns.
24:37So, you know,
24:38there are two ways to view this.
24:39And I think both ways
24:41are equally justifiable.
24:43So let me bring in Aishwarya
24:44for a moment
24:45because Aishwarya,
24:46this isn't just the Prime Minister.
24:47Look at what Speaker Om Birla said.
24:49He said it's a dark day
24:50for Indian parliamentary democracy
24:52when six women MPs
24:54tried to target the Prime Minister
24:55and it was the Speaker
24:57who advised the Prime Minister
24:58not to come to the floor of the house.
25:00And the first time since 2004,
25:02it's happened that the Prime Minister
25:03could not respond
25:03to the presidential address
25:05in Lok Sabha.
25:06So clearly,
25:07is this an attempt
25:08to target the Prime Minister
25:09on the floor of the house
25:10by women MPs?
25:12Okay, Gaurav,
25:13just two responses.
25:14First thing precise,
25:15I think somebody spoke about
25:16mountain out of a molehill
25:17and I think that's exactly
25:18what has happened here
25:19in the case of Mr. Bittu
25:21where a short interaction
25:23was basically pushed
25:24to the point of absurdity.
25:25And knowing Mr. Rahul Gandhi
25:27who is as honest,
25:27any other turncoat,
25:29including some we've seen
25:30very recently,
25:31he would also have said the same.
25:32But the point of absurdity
25:34is that you push it
25:35to make it a sort of communal
25:37and also religious
25:38and also the identity
25:39of the person.
25:40But you know who else
25:41the BJP themselves
25:42called gadars?
25:43Those lax of farmers
25:44at the border
25:45who spent months on end
25:47protesting for the repeal
25:48of the farm laws.
25:49The same exact self-same community
25:51that Prime Minister Modi
25:52is now trying to protect.
25:54With the people
25:54that were shot with water cannons,
25:56you saw old farmers
25:57being attacked.
25:58And now you come here
25:59trying to act
26:00like you're the guardian
26:01of the Sikh faith.
26:01If you are not,
26:02this is sheer rank hypocrisy first.
26:05And second,
26:05Speaker Om Birla
26:07talks about this idea
26:08of a dark day.
26:09So it wasn't the day
26:10that my MP Fulo Devi Netam
26:12had to have her hand
26:13broken by a marshal.
26:14It wasn't the day
26:15where you had MPs thrown out
26:17or bills passed
26:17at 3am in the night.
26:18It wasn't the day
26:19where you saw BJP MPs
26:21own guests try and harm
26:22members of parliament
26:23in session.
26:24But the dark day
26:25happens to be
26:26six members of parliament
26:27standing in front
26:29of the treasury benches
26:30to talk about an issue.
26:31This is classic deflection,
26:33Gaurav,
26:34because the fact is this,
26:35the Congress
26:36is criticizing
26:37the government
26:38on policy
26:39while the Prime Minister
26:40is responding
26:41like he is being attacked
26:43and this is classic
26:44victimhood.
26:45Where was that policy
26:46discussion on the floor
26:47of the house?
26:48One second.
26:49If it's being raised,
26:50if it's about some
26:51former army chief's
26:53unpublished book.
26:55Ten seconds.
26:56Ten seconds.
26:56Okay.
26:56Go on, ma'am.
26:57For the fact that
26:58the Prime Minister
26:59spoke about how we're
27:00doing so well
27:00at the border,
27:01it is quite scary
27:02that the man
27:03wouldn't allow a book
27:04that talks about
27:05a contrarian view.
27:06So freedom of speech
27:07be damned.
27:07That's one part.
27:08Second thing is,
27:08what is the Congress
27:09spoken about?
27:10I have viewed
27:10every MP's speech,
27:12whether it was
27:12the Jaljeevan mission,
27:13whether it was
27:14the Gram Sadak,
27:15whether it was
27:15healthcare,
27:16we have spoken
27:17time and time again
27:18also about dancing
27:19instead of actually
27:20being a strong leader.
27:22We have spoken
27:22about policy and issues
27:24while the Prime Minister's
27:25entire speech
27:26seemed to be
27:27attacking the Congress.
27:28We are not in government.
27:29We will be soon.
27:31But maybe the Prime Minister
27:32would do well
27:33to talk about the
27:33action.
27:33Shubhasa wants to
27:34respond to you
27:35because Shubhasa,
27:36Priyanka Gandhi,
27:37Wadra also shot back
27:38saying that there was
27:39no question whatsoever
27:40about women MPs
27:42and she says
27:42three,
27:43speaker says of course
27:44six or parliamentary
27:45sources say six
27:46women MPs,
27:47that there was no
27:48question of trying
27:48to attack the
27:49Prime Minister.
27:50This is only
27:50deflection tactics
27:51from the core issue
27:52that Rahul Gandhi
27:53was trying to raise.
27:55And if Rahul Gandhi
27:56was trying to raise
27:57a core issue,
27:57why did he not
27:58stick to the core?
27:59And why did he make
28:00the kind of statement
28:01that he did?
28:02This is why,
28:02and I think I was
28:03cut short when I was
28:04trying to say the
28:05same thing,
28:05with the past few
28:06months,
28:08we have constantly
28:09observed Rahul Gandhi
28:10make some comment
28:11which might have
28:12nothing to do with
28:13the kind of politics
28:13he's trying to play.
28:14But he is,
28:15you know,
28:16he cannot communicate
28:17well.
28:18He's not well-versed
28:19in Hindi,
28:19which is why every
28:20time he wants to
28:21convey something,
28:22it completely goes
28:23haywire.
28:24And I absolutely
28:24agree with Adweta,
28:26Gaurav,
28:27every MP,
28:28even if the MP
28:29comes from the
28:29opposition camp,
28:31represents all of us.
28:33You cannot be,
28:33you know,
28:34shallow about your
28:35remarks.
28:36When you say
28:37Gadda,
28:37you should have
28:38qualified it right
28:39then and there.
28:40Because we all know
28:40the kind of,
28:41you know,
28:42conversations around
28:43anti-nationalism and
28:44anti-nationalist that
28:45has been happening in
28:45this country for quite
28:46some time.
28:47If you really have
28:48that perspective about
28:49your political capital,
28:50you will go ahead and,
28:51you know,
28:52protect them.
28:53But Rahul Gandhi has
28:54a habit of throwing
28:55all his karakartas
28:56under the bus.
28:57So is there merit
28:58in the opposition,
28:59is the Prime Minister
29:00saying that the
29:00opposition is driven
29:01by personal hate
29:03towards him rather
29:04than critiquing
29:05his policies.
29:06So anything he does,
29:08you know,
29:08they end up
29:08criticising,
29:09because they hit
29:10the Prime Minister,
29:11they criticise
29:11whatever development
29:12is taking place
29:13or whatever action
29:14is taking place.
29:15Yes, you know,
29:16I mean,
29:16the comments that
29:17have come in from
29:18the Congress
29:19leadership post
29:20the Prime Minister's
29:20address have been
29:21entirely personal.
29:22He's a narcissist,
29:24he's theatrical,
29:25he's this,
29:26he's that.
29:26I mean,
29:27where have they
29:27critiqued what he
29:28said?
29:29What was theatrical
29:30was actually staging
29:31a walkout and
29:32then the moment
29:33his speech is over,
29:34you have comments
29:35to make,
29:35which means you
29:36clearly watched
29:36his speech,
29:37you just did
29:38the theatrics
29:39for walking
29:39out of Parliament.
29:41So I think,
29:41you know,
29:42even their response
29:43has been so
29:44personal,
29:45you know,
29:46even in what
29:46they have to say
29:48about him,
29:48that they don't
29:49ever get to the
29:50point.
29:51And this is,
29:52you know,
29:52harming them
29:53if they don't
29:53seem to get that.
29:54And Rahul Gandhi,
29:55frankly,
29:56he has a tendency
29:57to walk into
29:58dogpile all the
29:59time.
30:00And then everybody
30:01else from
30:01spokespersons to
30:02supporters are
30:03just trying to
30:04undo the damage.
30:05And this is a
30:06cycle on repeat.
30:07For a moment,
30:08for a moment,
30:08so I'm just
30:09about to be
30:09joined by
30:10Professor Jeffrey
30:11Sachs from
30:12the United States
30:13of America,
30:13the Columbia
30:13University on
30:14the India-US
30:15trade deal.
30:17And who blinked,
30:18you know,
30:19because the
30:19opposition is
30:19attacking the
30:20government.
30:21The government
30:22insists that
30:23they've held
30:24their ground.
30:25Before I bring
30:26in Professor
30:26Jeffrey Sachs,
30:27I want all
30:28our viewers to
30:29listen in to the
30:29Prime Minister
30:30on the
30:31India-US
30:32deal,
30:33which is yet
30:34to be inked,
30:34and of course,
30:34the India-EU
30:36free trade
30:36agreement.
30:37Listen in to the
30:38Prime Minister,
30:39I'll get you
30:39more on the
30:39story,
30:40and of course,
30:40Professor Jeffrey
30:41Sachs exclusive
30:41coming up on the
30:42other side for
30:43a quick break.
30:43Stay with us.
30:44Stay with us.
31:13I'll get you
31:15through the
31:16trade deal
31:17and
31:18I'll get you
31:19through the
31:20trade deal.
31:20And
31:21when
31:22European
31:22Union
31:23trade deal
31:24So Vishwa has been convinced that now the stability of the US will increase the stability of the US.
31:34After the trade leases, Vishwa has been convinced that the stability of the US is now becoming the stability of the US.
31:46So Union Commerce Minister, Piyush Goyal, he's just said that this is just the first
31:57tranche of that larger trade agreement with the United States of America and a joint statement
32:02perhaps is due in the next four to five days.
32:05So from those punishing 50% tariffs, now down to 18%, is the India-US relationship returning
32:13on an even keel?
32:15Joining me on India First to talk more about the trade deal and its impact is Professor
32:21Jeffrey Sachs, Professor and Director of the Centre for Sustainable Development at the
32:25Columbia University.
32:27Professor, welcome.
32:28Such a pleasure to have you on the show.
32:30You're reading, you're reading, Professor, of President Trump's moves from calling India
32:37a dead economy in August 2025 to saying India is lost to China and Russia around the time
32:44of the SCO Summit in Tianjin.
32:46President Trump suddenly announces the trade deal with 18% tariff.
32:50In your view, sir, what explains this dramatic turnaround?
32:54Did he blink?
32:55Who blinked first?
32:56Well, of course, Trump blinked.
33:00Trump is completely inconsistent.
33:04And he's all over the place.
33:07The policies of punishing India were absurd based on ignorance.
33:14Now things are coming back to at least back to a little bit of normalcy.
33:19But when you say, are things on even keel?
33:22No, because there is no even keel with the United States government right now.
33:28I just want people to understand, we in the United States are in a political crisis.
33:35We have an out-of-control president.
33:38We have troops in our cities.
33:40We have random policies internationally.
33:43Sometimes war one day, the next day peace, the next day war.
33:48This is very erratic.
33:51It is not based on strategy.
33:53It is based on the whim of the president.
33:57Prime Minister Modi did a good job.
33:59Keep calm.
34:01Get these absurd 50% tariffs back down.
34:06But your commerce minister is very enthusiastic.
34:10Oh, this is a great relationship.
34:12Just be careful.
34:14India is too big a country, too important to make its future based on the United States.
34:21India's future should be based on normal economic relations with all parts of the world,
34:28with Europe, with the United States, with Russia, by the way, with China, by the way.
34:34India's a great superpower.
34:36Don't think that the U.S. is somehow some special treat for India.
34:42It's just one of many trade partners.
34:46That's a very important point you make, sir.
34:49In fact, the Indian Prime Minister said something similar in Parliament when he said there are nine major trade deals that India has been able to ink.
34:58Professor Sachs, India hasn't confirmed what President Trump said about either investing $500 billion in America or pledging that,
35:06or even, you know, his claims that India will not buy Russian oil or is to stop buying Russian oil.
35:13Are you of the view that he's already announcing his wins before the fine print is settled?
35:19Or is this his deliberate strategy?
35:21First, it's very important to understand, Donald Trump does not tell the truth.
35:36He doesn't care.
35:38And when he lies, it'll be another lie the next day.
35:42We don't know what's in the agreement.
35:44Maybe by accident he said something true.
35:47But that would be a coincidence.
35:48He lies for a living.
35:51That's his tactic.
35:53I think it's not very smart, but that's his tactic.
35:56His tactic is, I will keep everybody unbalanced.
36:00I will say what I want.
36:02Typically, what he says is hot air, empty.
36:07Did India promise $500 billion of spending?
36:10How?
36:11In what way?
36:12In a budget?
36:13Of course not.
36:14So the whole idea in that sense is ridiculous.
36:17He comes up with numbers.
36:19He makes grandiose statements.
36:21Because Donald Trump wants to look good each day.
36:25This is his impulsivity.
36:28He doesn't care that looking good today will look very funny the next day when what he says today is shown not to be true.
36:38Because he'll then make another claim the next day and in that way keep everybody off balance.
36:45If you actually looked at the list of things that Donald Trump has said over the past year and held him to them, of course, you would see that this man has hardly spoken the truth at all.
36:58It's a tactic.
36:59I don't know if it's a—it is a tactic.
37:01But, boy, it's not a strategy.
37:03It's not getting us anywhere.
37:05It's not getting India anywhere.
37:06And just don't be too enthusiastic about the United States.
37:11There are some nice people.
37:13There are some good businesses.
37:15But it's just 12 percent of world trade.
37:18It's 14 percent of the world output.
37:22It is 4 percent of the world population.
37:25India's future is with the rest of the 90 percent, if I may say so, that it has relations with all the rest of the world.
37:33The more important thing for India this year is the BRICS presidency.
37:39The BRICS are half the world population.
37:42The BRICS are much larger than the G7 countries.
37:46Enjoy that.
37:47The BRICS are the fast-growing part of the world economy.
37:50So this is really the important event for India is the BRICS presidency.
37:56Because even Prime Minister Narendra Modi, and I'm glad you said that,
37:59the Prime Minister, when he travelled to the United States last year,
38:03he spoke of $500 billion of bilateral trade by 2030,
38:07and one year was already lost in that since 2025 and now 2026.
38:13But White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt,
38:16she said words to the effect that India has committed to not only no longer purchasing Russian oil,
38:22but buying oil from the United States and Venezuela.
38:24Sir, isn't the United States, if it does insist that India buys the Venezuelan oil,
38:31I mean, if it suits India, India will, but if it doesn't,
38:33does that not compromise India's energy security and independence?
38:38Of course it would.
38:40I hope that India just abides by normal trade,
38:47not bullying from the United States or anyone else.
38:51Look, everything about what's happened in the last year has been bizarre.
38:57The United States punished India for buying things from Russia,
39:02while the United States buys things from Russia.
39:04Europe buys things from Russia.
39:05This is totally arbitrary.
39:08It's whimsical.
39:10So India, with 1.5 billion people, cannot be whimsical.
39:16It needs a long-term strategy.
39:20Humoring Donald Trump, that's fine.
39:22That's a good tactic.
39:24But understanding that India's future is not some magic relationship with the United States,
39:31jumping up and down about how wonderful this is,
39:33but just measured that, yes, the United States has come back to some of its senses.
39:39I wouldn't say all of them, but some of its senses.
39:42And this is fine.
39:43And we can work with this is the right approach.
39:45Other countries have less than 18 percent tariffs.
39:48Some have 19, 20 percent.
39:51It's not a big deal at this point.
39:53The U.S. market is not the make or break of India's future.
39:58This is, I think, the more important point.
40:02Oh, you're absolutely right, sir.
40:04And, in fact, I remember reading somewhere that India politely but firmly told the United States of America
40:10that India will not push for it.
40:13India will not bend over backwards.
40:14India is happy to wait it out, or what's to that effect, and wait out the Trump presidency.
40:19Sir, you've said Trump is backing down from most of his trade wars all over the world.
40:25You've described India-U.S. deal as part of that retreat.
40:29Do you see this, perhaps, as Washington, D.C., conceding ground, finally, to India,
40:36since India did not, you know, cede ground?
40:39Yes, definitely.
40:43Trump announced wild tariffs in the beginning of this second term,
40:50and basically they're coming down to a range of 10 to 20 percent,
40:55because the whole thing was misguided.
40:58It's led to a lot of consternation inside the United States,
41:02because it has disrupted our own economy.
41:06This kind of whimsical operation where one person issues decrees by the day
41:14doesn't suit a modern economy.
41:17So they are calming down.
41:21Maybe they're calming down their boss, who's a very irascible, not very bright guy,
41:28and telling him, this is good for us.
41:30Maybe that's what's happening.
41:31But it is happening around the world that super high tariffs, somebody explains to Mr. Trump,
41:39this isn't really a good idea.
41:41This isn't really working.
41:43Just strategic patience, I think, is paying off.
41:48And it could well be, and we'll talk about it if it happens,
41:52that the U.S. Supreme Court sometime soon says all of this was an abuse of power by the president.
42:00I hope they say that, because Trump absolutely is exceeding his constitutional authority.
42:08The power to levy tariffs belongs to the U.S. Congress, Article I, Section 8.
42:16But Trump is announcing emergencies, emergencies.
42:19These are not emergencies.
42:21These are whims of the president.
42:23And I hope that the Supreme Court is honest enough and brave enough to say to the president of the United States,
42:31you don't have that authority.
42:33We are a constitutional system, not a one-person rule.
42:36You know, it's also very interesting.
42:40You know, you feel that the Supreme Court may strike this down.
42:44Would it then go back to what it was originally, 3% to 5%?
42:48Or as Piyush Goyal says, that this is just the first tranche.
42:51Subsequently, when that wider trade deal details come out and it's worked out,
42:55could it come down even below 18% in your view?
42:57Because you've also, sir, you know, since you mentioned that some of his advisors may not be advising him correctly,
43:02you've described Peter Navarro as completely, in your words, completely incompetent
43:07and economically ignorant, or words to that effect.
43:10Do you think it's there, that advice that President Trump took,
43:15which led him down this road that actually kind of messed up relationship with India?
43:19Yes, indeed.
43:22I've described Mr. Navarro more specifically as the worst PhD my economics department ever granted,
43:29because he was a student in the Harvard economics department.
43:33He either did not take my course or did not listen to any word I said,
43:38because he speaks economic nonsense from morning till night.
43:42But he definitely had some influence,
43:48and he was a loudmouth when it came to insulting India in this past year.
43:53Disgraceful.
43:54So Trump is influenced by these people,
43:58because Trump doesn't know anything about these issues.
44:01So somebody gets to him and tells him something.
44:05He does something.
44:06He's very impulsive.
44:08The next week he does something different.
44:10Again, with India's strategic direction,
44:16don't overdo it with the United States.
44:20Be moderate, careful, cautious,
44:24and don't think that India's future is that,
44:29for example, it's the new China in the U.S. supply chain.
44:33That's not going to happen.
44:35The U.S. is too unstable for that.
44:38It's too slow growing for that.
44:40It's too protectionist for that.
44:42So India needs to diversify.
44:45And I just hope that your commerce minister is enthusiastic about the other trade deals
44:50as he is about this trade deal,
44:52because the new trade deal with Europe is very good.
44:56I'm still hoping.
44:57I know it sometimes cuts across the grain.
45:02But India and China have a lot of positive trade that they can do,
45:07and I'm hoping for that as well.
45:09Of course, it requires good stability on the other bilateral issues.
45:14But these are the two greatest countries of the world,
45:17the two between them with almost 40 percent of the world population.
45:21If India and China are trading well,
45:24that's a huge plus for India in the years ahead as well.
45:28So that's what I'm hoping for.
45:30And for India's strategy, see this as,
45:34OK, it's a relief from the craziness of last year,
45:39but it's not a strategic new direction for India.
45:45India's strategic direction is good trade relations with every region of the world.
45:52In fact, that perhaps was the effort that India was moving forward in,
45:57you know, with all the conversations between Prime Minister Narendra Modi
46:00and Chinese President Xi Jinping until Doc Lam in 2017,
46:04you know, 2017 and then Galvan in 2020.
46:07Exactly.
46:07But subsequently, especially post what happened in Russia at the BRICS summit
46:15and then SCO Tianjin,
46:17do you see that relationship perhaps move in the right direction
46:21or that strategic mistrust, especially after Galvan 2020, is too much?
46:27That relationship will take a long time to repair.
46:30Even the India-US relationship post these tariffs will take a long, long time to mend.
46:34Look, if we look at India and China,
46:39the two biggest countries in the world, two vast civilizations,
46:46and they will be the number one and two economies of the world at mid-century,
46:53what they have in common interest is so much bigger than the border disputes
47:01that I would urge the two sides solve the border issue because the whole world
47:06is part of your future to understand how the two biggest countries of the world,
47:14the two biggest economies, can cooperate with each other.
47:17There the stakes are huge because the benefits of positive cooperation
47:22would be absolutely enormous.
47:24And these border issues, if I might say, while they're serious,
47:29they were made by the English.
47:31They weren't made by India or China.
47:34This is some disastrous line drawn in 1914 arbitrarily.
47:40And this is where the two great nations should say,
47:44come on, let's move beyond that because we have so much we can do together.
47:48That's my own view of it.
47:50Now, that's a very sensible view, and you're absolutely right about that.
47:55And let's sincerely hope there's forward movement
47:57and they're able to, you know, get over the hump
48:00when it comes to that problem.
48:01Sadly, that couldn't happen earlier.
48:04Is there a new dawn? That remains to be seen.
48:05But, Professor Sachs, you also called that 50% tariff on Indian imports a blunder,
48:11that it violated every strategic principle
48:13that should have been applied to India-U.S. relations from the American side.
48:17So, in your view, sir, what was that strategic miscalculation by President Trump?
48:21Did he think India will buckle, that Prime Minister Narendra Modi will bend?
48:25And your reading of India's response, sir?
48:29He was probably under pressure from some warmongers in the United States.
48:35We have some terrible senators, loudmouths, like Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.
48:42And Lindsey Graham was saying, maximum pressure on India, maximum pressure on India.
48:48So, the way Trump operates is maybe Lindsey Graham came into his office
48:52and Trump said, okay, put an extra 25% penalty on,
48:56without any idea of the consequences of that.
49:01It was flippant.
49:02It was a blunder.
49:04Then he had Navarro and Lutnik and others go out and make insulting statements about India.
49:11This isn't strategic.
49:13This is not even tactical, in my mind.
49:16It's just ignorance.
49:17And it felt like ignorance last year.
49:20It's now being corrected.
49:22Of course, the way Trump operates is that everything he does is right and every retreat is an advance and every move is the greatest thing ever.
49:33So, you never hear anything sensible about this.
49:37But my view is they blundered badly last year and now they're retreating from that blunder.
49:42Let's hope that things are moving in the right direction and that there's a new dawn with the trade ties.
49:49Of course, the other two parts of the compact, whether it's the defense relationship or the high-end technology,
49:54that too perhaps should improve.
49:56But it's such a privilege talking to you and hope you're back on India First very soon.
50:01Professor Sachs, for joining me here on India Today.
50:03Many thanks.
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