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"It's a privilege to be here," Morgan, who also wrote and produced the Netflix drama, says of the nominations.
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00:00Hello, I'm Dan Feinberg from The Hollywood Reporter.
00:03We're here today with Peter Morgan, writer, creator, producer of Netflix's The Crown,
00:08which is up for, how many Emmys is The Crown up for?
00:1113.
00:1213, excellent. I knew it was somewhere between 11 and 15, but I figured you would know the answer.
00:17And I assume you've been talking a lot about the show's Emmy hopes for probably a couple months now.
00:22What is that process like, the going through the gauntlet of pre-awards stuff?
00:27Actually, I haven't been talking about it because I've been in London making the second season.
00:35And in London, you know, our awards calendar is very different.
00:39We have the BAFTAs and then we get little or no sense of what's happening over here.
00:47And when you come here, it's quite a shock.
00:51Because it's, you know, I have some experience of this from films being on what they call award season.
01:00And, you know, it's a very different experience.
01:03In England, you don't campaign.
01:06You know, there's no industry around it.
01:10And so when you come here and get caught up in all this, you know, it feels like a whole other side of, it feels like show business, business, business, business.
01:21You know, it feels like it's a very, it's a big thing.
01:24Is it daunting?
01:25Is it something that sort of feels anathema to the process as you like to participate in it?
01:30And I assume you like to make the shows and then let things happen afterwards or the movies.
01:35I can't imagine anybody, you know, thinking, oh, good, it's award season.
01:43Because it feels, you know, even in the, I mean, of course it's lovely to win.
01:50I've had some experience of winning and I've had a lot of experience of not winning.
01:53Of course winning is nicer, but either you can't, you can't, you can't take it too seriously.
02:02And yet at the same time, it's taken extraordinarily seriously.
02:04And you don't want to let down people, you know, you don't want to let down people for whom it makes a big financial difference.
02:11Often the distributors or the street or the, you know, the company like Netflix.
02:16So I want, I'd love us to win, but, but equally I can't bear being put into a competition as, as the reward for having hopefully done good work that you end up turning colleagues and other shows that you admire into, into, into some kind of race, you know, which is, so it is, of course it's counterintuitive to the artistic process.
02:37But I, you know, it, it seems to be a really established part of the, of the industry now.
02:43Well, it's funny because some people, you know, when they get nominations, they go, oh, we never thought this would be a contender.
02:51We never thought this was the kind of thing that gets nominations, but you traditionally do write things that tend to lend themselves ultimately to awards down the line.
03:00You know, you work in a genre that is award friendly.
03:03How hard is it for you to not think about that at the end of the tunnel?
03:08I, I, I promise you I don't.
03:11I, I, I really promise you I don't.
03:13I, of course, I, I, I really don't.
03:15I just, you know, I do what I do and I think that, you know, I, I really care that people like what I do or the, or the work is as good as it possibly can be.
03:26Sometimes the circumstances don't permit or sometimes you don't do the best possible work.
03:30But I try to make it, if, if as a consequence of doing the best possible work that, you know, you end up in, you end up talking to you.
03:41You, no, but if, you know.
03:44I like being represented as the light at the end of the tunnel or maybe the darkness at the end of the tunnel.
03:48I'm not sure which one it is, but.
03:50Listen, I'd hate to not be here, right?
03:53So I'd hate, that would be, that, you know, I'd hate to not be here and I'm, you know, and it's a, it's a privilege to be here.
04:00You've obviously had to do a lot of interviews associated with this show.
04:04Are there different questions that British journalists ask compared to American journalists, given sort of the investment that they have in the subject matter?
04:11I have done almost no interviews at all.
04:14In the UK, for example, the royal family, anything to do with the royal family, it's almost a hemophiliac issue.
04:21If you touch it, it bruises, you know, you've got to be so careful.
04:26What you say, you can be misinterpreted.
04:28I think it would be the same as if you were to make even an offhand remark about the presidency here or about Donald Trump.
04:34It would, you know, if you're in a conspicuous position, it flies.
04:37And so my, I elect to do almost no press or almost no interviews whatsoever.
04:43I also personally, my view is that it's not a good thing if you know who the writer is or what the writer looks like.
04:48I prefer my writers to be anonymous so that I don't picture them.
04:55And I prefer my writing to, you know, to do all the talking for me.
04:59I don't particularly like appearing.
05:03Do you ever read interviews with writers yourself?
05:06Or do you just simply avoid the genre as it were entirely?
05:10No, I know that I will read, you know, if there's somebody whose work I admire, I will read about it.
05:17But mostly, I'll do that as a consequence of having watched a show that I particularly enjoy.
05:23And I must say, I would be very keen to meet or to watch a good interview with other showrunners.
05:32You know, the challenge of showrunning, particularly at a time where, you know, the sands are shifting so much, you know,
05:39in the industry and the way that television is perceived and consumed.
05:43And it's such a rapidly changing, you know, area that we're all in that to have a conversation with other people doing my job would just be lovely.
05:52But then I would imagine anybody would find that interesting talking to other people doing their job.
05:56Well, it's funny because it's such a cottage industry, the sort of postmortem interview that everyone who runs a show has to do after basically every episode of a show explaining exactly what happened in that episode.
06:07And I've conducted many of those interviews myself, and it's a weird thing to have to do that.
06:12And I guess I'm glad for you that you don't have to analyze each episode of this show after having it released, I guess.
06:20Yeah, I'm grateful for that, too.
06:23I wouldn't do it. I just wouldn't do it.
06:26I mean, you know, I'm genuinely, I'm talking to, I think, three people out here on this trip, and I won't talk to anyone else.
06:35Well, have you gotten your finger on the pulse of reactions?
06:37In the UK and how people have responded at all?
06:39Well, I mean, I do get, I do get, I got a sense just, you know, from text messages or from emails, and people don't need to send those.
06:52You know what I mean?
06:52When you meet people face to face, then, of course, they're not going to, you know, they're not going to tell you, you suck.
06:57But I did get a, I got a disproportionate electronic traffic.
07:06But I think it is slightly, it is interpreted differently.
07:11I haven't had, I haven't traveled enough because I've been so busy doing this damn thing that, that, to get a sense of how it's, how it's gone down internationally.
07:18And I think also Netflix's penetration in the international market is, you know, it's just growing.
07:23So I'm hoping that with the second season, there'll be more subscribers, there'll be, it will have penetrated great, you know, more markets.
07:30And this extraordinarily exciting thing about going day and date in all these countries at once.
07:36I mean, it's sort of breathtaking, the speed at which things are changing.
07:40And that definitely has galvanized me in the writing, you know, that I feel that I'm part of an industry and a technology within the industry that is, you know, disrupting and changing and moving things forward.
07:56And that inspires me.
07:58You know, I love that.
07:59Well, does the day and date and the binge process make a particular sense to you as a writer who wrote every episode of this?
08:05Sort of, sort of, it's, you wrote it as a binge process yourself.
08:08So does it make a certain sense to you that viewers are viewing it in a comparable way?
08:12Yeah.
08:13I, I, I, I love the fact that I have no control over how the viewers are watching it.
08:18You know, in, in the past, you have so much control.
08:20You, you, you write to commercial breaks, you write to episode lengths.
08:24You, you knew that there was a week's gap between, so you're writing in a particular way with cliffhangers, you know, within the episode, you're, you're shaping it around, around a fixed.
08:35Now, it's a, it's open season.
08:38And, and, and, and the, one of, I, I, I'm almost more curious to ask people how they watched it, where they watched it, in, in, in what, in, in, in what segments, in what configuration, on a big screen, on a small screen.
08:50You know, did it, you know, did it, you know, because we're, we're, we're making this in, in the way that I've, I've, I've, I've had an active career in the theatre and in feature films.
09:00And I'm, we're making this show like a film.
09:02There's nothing different about the way we're making The Crown to the way that I made Frostnicks and The Queen, The Last King of Scotland, you know, Rush.
09:10And it's that kind of a bespoke experience.
09:15And I'm wondering, how are people watching it?
09:16It's, you know, some people watch it in, you know, some people watching it one a night, and some people are watching four or five in one go.
09:24And, and that, you, you can't, you can't write to suit everybody's viewing habits.
09:32So, so, I, I do know that anecdotally people say that two or three hours is, is, is quite common.
09:39So, I, as I'm writing, you know, subsequent seasons, as I'm learning a little bit more about this, I am writing sometimes in twos, sometimes as a triplet, sometimes a single episode, to, to, to really kind of shake things up.
09:54And, and, and make the flow inside a season be more interesting.
09:58Now, obviously, there's no technically wrong way to watch the show, but have you heard any sort of viewership experience where you just went, that's, that's, that's not how you're supposed to be doing it.
10:07You know, like someone watching it on a tiny phone, 10 hours straight or something like that.
10:11No, it wouldn't upset me.
10:12It really wouldn't.
10:13It might upset the cinematographer or the production designer, but, but, but, you know, I, I, this is where we are now.
10:21It's, you know, and, and, and I'm sort of a gog at how people are watching, you know, um, I, I, I think as it's changing, you know, I'm, I'm sad that people are saying, no, cinema has to be cinema and television has to be cinema.
10:33This is such a movable thing now, the way in which we're doing all this.
10:37And, and, and, uh, it's disappointing to read people being so trenchant about, you know, how a media needs to be consumed.
10:44It's a film that must be consumed in this way.
10:46It's, it's a, it, it, it, people are consuming thinking.
10:51They're watching two things at once and they seem to be, I was, I came on the, I came over on a plane.
10:55I was watching somebody, they were emailing, they were, and they didn't seem to be less focused.
11:02Normally I'd have said, for heaven's sake, you know, uh, what are you doing, man?
11:06Concentrate, what's the matter with you?
11:07And, uh, uh, uh, uh, but he seemed, he seemed to be completely able to do, to do two things at once.
11:14I don't know what it's doing to our brains.
11:16I, you know.
11:17Scrambling is the, is the easy answer, but.
11:20Yeah, it's, but it's happening.
11:22And to pretend that it isn't happening is, is foolish.
11:25It's happening and it's exciting.
11:27What was Claire's last day on set, like, in season two?
11:33Well, I kept, I kept, we kept having these goodbyes.
11:39And, and it, well, you know, I, there was a sense of relief for her, I think, because I think she, two seasons of very hard work carrying a show like that, you know, that takes its toll.
11:48And I think she, she really felt she'd got to the end.
11:52I think she was, she'd got, you know, she'd really felt she'd done her bit, you know, and she was ready.
11:56But I wasn't ready to let her go.
11:58And, and so I kept coming up with extra reshoots that were completely unnecessary and completely spurious.
12:05Although that, you know, that said, every time I looked at an episode in post and it wasn't quite working or, you know, the pieces, putting Claire in it would orientate it, root it.
12:17And, and I, I, I felt such a strong connection to her as a writer.
12:21You know, I was writing for that face.
12:23Well, you've been talking basically the whole time about the need to recast at a certain point.
12:28Was there any part of you in season two that sort of started toying with the idea of, well, maybe we could see what the makeup would look like.
12:34You know, maybe we can try it and maybe it'll be okay just to keep her around.
12:38No, I, I, I don't think so.
12:40I, I, I think, um, I'd, I'd sooner stop altogether than, than have, than disfigure the poor woman.
12:48She, you know, she's done, no, it's sort of perfect what she's done.
12:51And also, you know, she represents, if we are going to go forward, it's not, it's not just the face that changes with age.
12:59It's experience of life and she's, she, she, in her own personal life has just had one child.
13:04She's a brand new mother.
13:06You couldn't ask her to inhabit the soul of somebody who'd had four children.
13:10And, I mean, I know that there's acting, but then there are other sort of kind of deeper things.
13:14And deeper things that you wear in your face and in your air and in your spirit.
13:17And, and, um, I couldn't ask her to wear the scars of that many battles, you know, as a human being and as a mother, as a wife, you know, it needs to be now, if it continues, it needs to be a woman with genuine experience of life or deeper experience of life.
13:35Well, you say if it continues, but you're assuming it's going to continue, of course, right?
13:39Well, there's will, there's will on both sides, but we haven't pressed the button yet.
13:43And, and, and pressing the button is contingent upon finding the right group of people, making sure I've got the right stories.
13:48Everybody's still having the energy, you know, it's, uh, right now we're still in that transitional period where people's expectations are for cinematic television at cinematic levels, but they are still somehow demanding 10 episodes a year, which is like the old television.
14:03Sure.
14:04Um, and you, you, we've got to be careful you don't burn people out that way.
14:08I don't know how to tell you this, but a lot of American TV shows do 22 or 24.
14:12It's just sort of unimaginable.
14:14And, and, and I, I, I, every day I send, uh, compassion and hugs to all the showrunners out there.
14:23I do.
14:24Well, but Netflix is always so big about we make our own rules.
14:27It's our own thing.
14:27Surely if you came to them and said season three is going to be six episodes and that, that's how many it's going to be, they would just nod politely and let you do it.
14:34Right?
14:34I think so.
14:35I mean, I, I, I, they would, I think they'd first express disappointment, but I think, I think they, they would.
14:41And you read, you know, you read about, um, you know, the, the creator of Fargo saying it's just not ready yet.
14:48And therefore it won't.
14:49And, and, and, and in FX, they, he had a supportive, uh, uh, group of executives that sort of said, well, you can't just tell something, you know, when it's ready, it's ready.
14:58And, and that's a fantastically broad-minded attitude to the creative process.
15:03What is the actual search process going to look like?
15:05Like, are you actually going to read 50 actresses or are you going to go in saying, I have five people I want to take over Queen Elizabeth?
15:13You know, how, how actually searching is it going to be, do you imagine?
15:17Well, no, but I think, you see, that, that would be more when it was the younger Queen.
15:21Um, by the time you're looking at someone who's going to be ultimately in their mid-40s, maybe even 50, you know, by and large, the good ones will have risen to the top already.
15:32And, uh, and there won't be such a question of, you know, of, of discovery.
15:37Uh, but I, you know, I've got a world-class casting director in Nina Gold and, um, I generally follow her advice.
15:46It's very rare that we disagree.
15:48And is this all moving along until eventually Helen Mirren can get back in the crown or, or would you actually want to avoid that specifically having been there and done that?
15:57I, I, I think probably she would like to avoid it.
16:01Um, uh, she, she has, uh, she's been, she's been a fantastic friend.
16:06And, uh, and, uh, and Queen, you know, for me, and, uh, no, really she has.
16:11And, uh, I, I don't, if she feels that she still has something to give, if I feel I still have something to write by that point, I mean, uh, one step at a time.
16:21And when we talked before the start of the first season, you said that the first season was kind of a superhero origin story for Elizabeth.
16:28What is the second season by that standard?
16:31Well, you know, if at the beginning of the first season you've got people marrying in the first episode,
16:36and, uh, really finding their way and having this dreadful bombshell dropped on them.
16:40And, and, you know, by the second season it's, it's 10 years on and any marriage that's 10 years old will, will, will have its complexities, have its issues.
16:50Uh, people are older.
16:53Um, so you, I think you'll find a marriage that's more shaded, is experiencing more challenges.
17:01I think you'll find her being better and more grounded and more, uh, established in her role.
17:06And I think you'll find that whatever cracks there were, uh, between, in her relationships, both with her mother, with her sister, uh, they will only have deepened with time.
17:17Um, and so things are just a little, uh, darker.
17:23And you mentioned trying to write in sort of different two-episode or three-episode blocks.
17:28Is there anything like the Sutherland Churchill episode in the second season?
17:31Yeah, yeah, there is.
17:32I mean, not, not literally the same, obviously.
17:35It doesn't revolve around a portrait or something, but there are some surprising, you know, uh, duets, um, you know, that, that, that we've unearthed in our research.
17:44I have eight full-time researchers, you know, I imagine, it's so wonderful, and, uh, they're constantly throwing up discoveries, we, we, you know, uh, we, we're pretty thorough.
17:56And, and so, uh, um, uh, I think, I hope there'll be a lot of things that, I always take myself as a yardstick.
18:03If I don't know something in this field, then it's likely that most people won't, because I've just spent more time reading around this, you know.
18:10So, so, so when I find something that surprises me, I say, you know, I think it's a pretty safe bet that it, that it will surprise others.
18:17And, and then I've learned so many things this last season.
18:19Had there been any sort of corrections made by experts to things in the first season where you're like, yeah, we kind of, we kind of blew that one?
18:26Yeah, heads will roll in the research department.
18:28I, I, I know they're very keen.
18:29They're very, they're all, they're all, like, really keen.
18:32I mean, of course, all history is interpretation.
18:34Sure.
18:35And, and, and, presumably some people will have things to say about that.
18:39But, I, my gang is pretty thorough.
18:42And, and they, you know, they, they take it as a badge of honor that, that, that, that what they fed me is, you know, that I can trust it.
18:51And just to the last question, you've been so busy putting the finishing touches on the second season.
18:55Have you watched any TV this summer at all?
18:58Well, I've, yeah, I have, actually.
19:00I have.
19:00I, I, I, I've watched a number of the other shows that have been nominated.
19:04I've watched documentaries.
19:05You know, I, ultimately, if I'm writing my own stuff, I, I, I do retreat often to documentaries because it's a place where I can switch off without thinking, God, why didn't I do something like that?
19:17You know, when, if I watch other drama, I often think, oh, that's so, you know, I, I'm, I'm, I sort of think, why do I, I wish we did a bit more of that, or, you know, you know.
19:25So sometimes I need to put that aside if I want to have an evening off.
19:29And, and, and I, you know, the, the, the, the rise of the documentary as a, both in feature film, but also the spectacular OJ documentary, that's a joy for me.
19:41You know, my life is now, I'm a wall-to-wall documentary guy.
19:45So what have you particularly enjoyed that you watched this summer?
19:47I enjoyed, I enjoyed, I enjoyed, well, as a, dramas, I enjoyed Stranger Things, I enjoyed Handmaid's Tale, I enjoyed, on documentary side, I enjoyed The OJ, I enjoyed The Keepers, I enjoyed Jinx, but I, I, I've been, I have been kind of too busy reading to watch as much as is on offer.
20:10I mean, it's, how do you, how do you make an impression on what's on offer?
20:13I mean, there is so, that's, there's a lot to watch.
20:17That's my day-to-day job.
20:18Yeah.
20:20Well, thank you so much.
20:21We've been talking with Peter Morgan, creator of The Crown.
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