- 19 hours ago
Amy Pascal ('Challengers'), Lucy Fisher ('Gladiator II'), Mary Parent ('Dune: Part Two'), Monique Walton ('Sing Sing'), Samantha Quan ('Anora') and Tessa Ross ('Conclave') join The Hollywood Reporter for our Producers Roundtable.
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00:00You're watching something that's different and better and luckier than even what was on the page.
00:06Then you say, I had the right career, I made the right choice, I love my work.
00:30Thank you so much for joining us at the Hollywood Reporter Producers' Roundtable.
00:40I'm so excited to jump into this conversation.
00:43And to begin with, we're going to start with an icebreaker for everyone.
00:48What did your first job as a producer entail?
00:52It was one of the few movies that I had the luxury of shooting in Los Angeles.
00:57That's only happened a few times.
00:58And the location scout came to me and said, they're asking us to pay again.
01:06And I said, what do you mean?
01:07And they said, well, there's people that don't necessarily want us to be here and they want us to pay again.
01:13And so I think I was sort of naive enough not to understand what that was.
01:18So I went and somehow talked my way through it and we got to stay.
01:22But it dawned on me halfway through that it was sort of a side deal they were looking for.
01:29So I sort of navigated through that.
01:33That's a hard one to jump right on into the fire on that one.
01:39Amy, what about for you?
01:39Oh, thanks.
01:40Yeah.
01:41I knew you were going to do that.
01:43Well, I worked for a man named Tony Garnett for a very long time who was a producer.
01:48Then I became a studio executive.
01:50And then I stayed being a studio executive for a really long time.
01:53Then I got fired and became a producer.
01:54So the first movie that I worked on as a producer, I had no idea when you were allowed to talk to the director.
02:03Right.
02:04Because, you know, when you run the studio, you like come on the set and everybody's like, yeah, hi.
02:08You know, you can do whatever you want.
02:09But like schlep-a-dick producer.
02:12Right.
02:12So I would just go up to the director after.
02:16They're like, we're doing the master.
02:17You're not allowed to like give notes already.
02:20It's like I had no idea when you were allowed to talk.
02:23So that's what I learned.
02:24That was my first thing to learn.
02:26I've just been watching Amy thinking, I think I have the least experience as a producer because I was an executive for so long.
02:33This whole.
02:33Yeah.
02:34So I feel like actually my experience of producing was watching other producers truthfully.
02:41So when I started a company, I was really lucky that one of my first films was to make a film with another producer.
02:48And that producer was a guy called Ed Geine.
02:50What's the best thing that you learned from watching Ed?
02:53Everything, to be honest.
02:57So literally from how the production team worked, from his own team working with them, from budgeting to managing how we crewed up.
03:05Just generally the on-set stuff because it's very different as an exec that you're involved so much in development and looking at what the budget might mean and what financing might mean and often delivering.
03:15So editing is a big part of being an exec as well.
03:17But as a producer, it was the on-set experience that I just had no real knowledge of.
03:21Yeah.
03:21Other than like you being welcomed like a queen.
03:24Yeah.
03:24Really not knowing what to do.
03:26A queen was great.
03:27Yeah.
03:27Yeah.
03:28Yeah.
03:29Monique, what about for you?
03:31Well, I fell into producing in grad school and started producing all of my peers' films because there were no other producers in the program.
03:41And so one of the projects that I worked on was a short film called Skunk with my creative collaborator, Annie Silverstein, who I ended up making my first feature with.
03:50But on that, we, you know, we were breaking all the cardinal rules.
03:54We were working with kids and animals.
03:55So already we were starting off challenging ourselves.
03:59And then I learned that if you are thinking you might have pickups, you should really store your set design because we, a couple of months later, we returned to the house that we were filming in, which was that location.
04:11It was just someone's house.
04:12And we were, you know, reshooting part of this makeout scene and we needed the couch.
04:17It was very important.
04:18And so we said, oh, and she was like, yeah, sure, you can come back and film.
04:21And we were like, oh, you still have the couch, right?
04:23And she was like, the couch.
04:24And we were like, yeah, you know, the couch that we, that you had several months ago.
04:27And she was like, oh, that couch, it's, it's, it's out back.
04:30And I was like, out back?
04:31And she was like, yeah, you know, in the field, out back, there was a field behind the house.
04:34What was in a field?
04:35And it was, you know, exposed to all the elements.
04:37And so we had to grab, we had to pick up the couch and to pick up truck and just like, you know, clean it, try to get all the, you know, whatever is growing on it by that point.
04:46So that was a big lesson for me.
04:48Pulling a couch from a field.
04:50You gotta love it.
04:51This is producing.
04:53Samantha, what about for you?
04:54Well, I am an independent film, which is a lot different than executive people, which I've done everything because my job is to make sure that the movie gets made no matter what happens.
05:10And I would say as a, as a full producer, um, we made Red Rocket at the very beginning of the pandemic, which was a very strange time.
05:22And yes, we made it with 10 people.
05:2510 people.
05:26Yes.
05:26We wore many hats.
05:28Yeah.
05:28Um, and one of my jobs, I mean, we did everything, whatever needed to be done.
05:34We made sure it got done.
05:36And one of those things was, um, I would apply when needed, uh, Simon Rex's prosthetic penis.
05:44Yes.
05:46So I'd be running lines with him in the car, like, and putting his penis on.
05:49And, and then, and then it'd be like, okay, are you, are you ready now?
05:53Yeah.
05:53And we'd go and we got very, very close.
05:56And, and yeah, and there was one point I was actually, it's funny.
05:59I was just talking about it yesterday where, um, just to make sure that it would stay on while he was running.
06:05I said, Hey, can, um, I'm going to take a video.
06:07Can you just stand up and like do some jumping jacks?
06:10And so I had Simon Rex doing, um, jumping jacks with the prosthetic penis on, but it made him look like he was naked.
06:18And so I was showing the production designer.
06:20I was like, so this looks good.
06:22Right.
06:22And she's like, you need to take that off your phone now.
06:26It's off my phone.
06:28You're on public wifi.
06:30You're like, hi.
06:31Exactly.
06:31Crowd what?
06:32Yeah.
06:33So, yes.
06:34Amazing.
06:36Lucy, what about, what about for you?
06:38I'm asked to follow that story.
06:40Yeah.
06:40Any prosthetic penises in, uh, in your, au revoir?
06:45I, I also was an executive for 25 years.
06:48So, um, I would say the main thing that I learned about being a producer is as an executive,
06:53you can tell people you should fix this.
06:57But when you're the producer, you're the person you have to tell to fix the thing.
07:01Yeah.
07:02And, uh, we did have the cat's asshole fall out and Stuart Little.
07:06Oh my God.
07:07You've matched, you've matched the story.
07:11How does that happen?
07:12And it prolapses because of stress.
07:17Oh!
07:18Anyway, it went back in.
07:21We continue to shoot.
07:23Wow.
07:24That cat.
07:24A trooper.
07:25A real trooper.
07:26But the idea that your job is to fix the problem as opposed to identify the problem for somebody
07:33else to fix was a big adjustment.
07:35And I think the hardest part of being a producer and the most fun part is trying to figure out
07:39the problems while on your feet, while 20 other things are going on and trying to remember
07:44what's the most important thing I should be paying attention to right now.
07:48So I'm not paying attention to the thing no one's going to care about.
07:51And I am paying attention to the thing that's going to ruin the movie if it doesn't get fixed.
07:56So that's the hardest part.
07:59And I called Kathy Kennedy for advice many times.
08:02Yeah.
08:03And she knew the answer to everything.
08:05About the cat's anatomy.
08:06About the cat's anatomy.
08:06Not about that one.
08:07Yeah.
08:08But now you know so much about a cat's anatomy.
08:10So priceless information.
08:12Tessa, I was reading that you had the rights to Conclave for a while since the book came
08:20out.
08:21And when you decided to make the movie, ultimately you all made it outside of the studio system.
08:27You made it independently.
08:29I'm wondering what was the choice behind that?
08:33Was it because of the subject matter?
08:34Did you ever try to go the studio route?
08:36Or did you know this is a film that requires...
08:39That's a very clever question.
08:40Yeah.
08:40Because you say you decided to make the movie and then you decided to go to an independent
08:44group.
08:45And I think that's so generous of you.
08:47As though I have any control at all of my choices.
08:50So it was the second turn of the financing that led us to an independent structure.
08:55Which is why it took so long.
08:57So I didn't option the book not to make the movie.
08:59But it did take me quite a long time to get through the rounds of making sure we made it
09:03right and of course that meant we had a little less money and a little more stress and having
09:08to have all those elements in place at the one time to be able to go out and sell the
09:11movie in the way that we had to to finance it.
09:13Yeah.
09:13But actually it again gave us the freedom that we needed, which in the end turned out to
09:18be the right thing.
09:19It's that weird thing, isn't it?
09:20That everything ends up snowballing and you think that was horrible and that was horrible.
09:23But actually it all made for the right movie in the end.
09:27Yeah.
09:27Amy, you said something really interesting.
09:30I did.
09:30When you read the Challenger screenplay, it was, the quote is that it was very rare that
09:37commercial movies are about adult relationships and about sex.
09:42And I was so interested by that because there's been a lot of talk just generally among movie
09:46fans, among the industry about a lack of sex in modern movies, especially compared to
09:51cinema of, you know, the 70s, 80s and 90s.
09:54But I'm wondering, how did you know you could get the script made knowing that?
10:00Hiring Luca to direct the movie, I knew that he knows how to make movies about people and
10:08he knows how to make movies about people's bodies and how people being free with their
10:15bodies and who they are.
10:16And because the movie is about athletes, it was really important to him that they treated
10:23themselves in the way they walked and the way they looked, the way that athletes do.
10:29And what I liked about the movie is it was a really modern story.
10:33It was a really unjudgmental story about how people love each other and the different ways
10:41that people love each other in the modern world where they're allowed to.
10:45And there's no, there's no judgment and he has no judgment about things like that.
10:51And it really was him that made it the movie that it became.
10:57Yeah.
10:58When you were taking it out to find potential studio partners, did you all hear any pushback
11:05about the amount of sex or because you had Luca?
11:08No, because nobody knew how much sex Luca was going to put in the movie.
11:11Until we made it, the real pushback that we got was about the ending.
11:16That was like everyone we talked to was like, well, who won?
11:19Yeah.
11:20Yeah.
11:20And we're like, well, no one won.
11:22That wasn't the point of the movie.
11:23It wasn't about tennis.
11:24What are you talking about?
11:25And that was the thing that people, let's be honest, my first question to the writer
11:32when I read it was, who won?
11:35So I'm a big liar.
11:36But then I got really confident about saying, well, it's just ambiguous.
11:43It's up to interpretation.
11:45Yeah, because the movie is about the thing that you fear the most, the thing that you
11:53desperately hope will never fucking happen.
11:58And then it happens and you survive it.
12:00And I thought that was, that really moved me.
12:06Yeah.
12:08Samantha, you and your filmmaking team consulted with sex workers ahead of making.
12:15Oh, yeah.
12:15She has a bunch of sex.
12:16Yeah.
12:19She's just all over that.
12:21Yeah.
12:22I got it.
12:22I am wondering, what did that outreach look like and how did that consultation, how did
12:30those relationships ultimately inform what the movie became?
12:34Oh, it's everything.
12:38Because number one to the movies is authenticity.
12:43And I think the luxury that we do have is, I mean, I'm super lucky because in the situation
12:52that I'm in, I get to work with my partner and everything.
12:55And so that's pre-development.
12:58That's everything.
12:59And so working with consultants started from the very, very beginning.
13:05And then when we were in New York, because of the authenticity, Sean doesn't, because we
13:12cast too, so I was calling around to find real dancers instead of people pretending to be
13:19dancers.
13:20Yeah.
13:21And it was interesting because everyone involved ended up kind of being a, Sean is very collaborative.
13:29So if someone thinks that something is wrong or misrepresented, he's very clear about, hey,
13:33I want you to speak up because that's just the way that we work.
13:38We like it when people speak up and say, this is, this is not how it is.
13:42It's more like this.
13:43And then there's a conversation and we switch it.
13:45I remember looking for the dancers.
13:47I had, I had a consultant who would even connect me with as many dancers as possible.
13:52And it was interesting because some of them would say, oh my gosh, I, I really want to
13:57be a part of this because this is very similar to something that actually happened to me or
14:01this happened to a friend of mine.
14:02So then that made us know that we were, we were being authentic in certain ways or on the
14:07right track.
14:08And then that informed certain parts of the story to, to be explored more.
14:13Yeah.
14:13Monique, you also have people who have these lived experiences in your movie.
14:18And there's so much talk about the importance of physical safety on set.
14:22But it's also important to maintain a sense, I can imagine, of mental and emotional safety.
14:28And a lot of your cast for Sing Sing were formerly incarcerated performers and you were shooting
14:34in prison.
14:36Was that something that you were talking with them beforehand?
14:39Is it something that you were, you know, that you had in mind heading into production?
14:44And if so, what were those conversations like with your cast?
14:47Yeah, so that was, you know, that the casting approach was something that we knew from the
14:52start that we wanted to work with professional actors and with folks from the community from
14:58this program and find that alchemy.
15:01You know, Greg was really interested in that and so am I.
15:04And so once we knew that we were going to shoot in a decommissioned prison, which, you
15:08know, we didn't have money to, you know, build a set or build a prison set.
15:12But also the movie was about, it was really about, again, similarly, like the authenticity
15:17and the truth of it and the truth of these institutions that are all around us.
15:21And so my very first thought was, okay, well, we don't want to re-traumatize our cast.
15:27You know, these men who are putting themselves out there, they're being vulnerable for us.
15:31They're really trusting us.
15:34And I knew that it was a big responsibility for us as filmmakers to take care of them as
15:41much as possible.
15:42So I said, how can we create a safe space for them to feel?
15:45Because we don't know what's going to come up.
15:47Some of them hadn't returned to prison.
15:49Some of them, you know, they talked about how they don't even wear the color green because
15:54of the experience of putting greens back on would be traumatizing.
15:59So I started talking to a number of therapists and eventually found a therapist that had
16:04volunteered at Sing Sing before and knew a lot of the alumni cast.
16:09So, you know, we talked and we said, what, you know, he said, you know, we don't, we don't
16:14know what, what could happen.
16:15And also, you know, it's a very masculine thing to really bury your, your, your feelings.
16:21So we invited him to set to be a resource and ultimately realized that our cast wasn't
16:28necessarily engaging with therapy in a traditional sense.
16:32But they shared with us that there were, you know, moments of catharsis.
16:34You know, I think that because they were all kind of coming together, it was almost like
16:39the movie was a reunion of this program in a sense, so that there were, there was a, you
16:46know, support system between a lot of the cast as well.
16:49And some of our cast said, you know, the importance of sharing the story with the world, you know,
16:53really surpassed any sort of apprehension they had around going back into prison.
16:58Good question, but did you have, did you have to put kind of aftercare in the sense of all
17:02the people that you engaged with on those two films who were from another world, not the
17:07film world, have you continued to support them post?
17:10Is that something that you've had to engage with?
17:12I think that the journey of the film is still ongoing, even to this day.
17:16And so we're, we're very much in touch and close and always kind of checking in with each
17:21other, Divine G, the real Divine G who Coleman plays in the movie, he calls everyone all the
17:27time, like everyone calls each other.
17:29And we try to have group gatherings beyond, you know, the, the screenings that we've been
17:34having.
17:35Brilliant.
17:35That's brilliant.
17:36Yeah.
17:37Yeah.
17:38Yeah.
17:39Same here.
17:40I mean, it's you, you really, after so much time and after so many people's generosity,
17:45we are so appreciative.
17:46So we do keep in touch.
17:48I mean, for every, every film there are people from the Florida project, like everyone, you,
17:54you become really close as human beings and you're just like, I'm not, I'm not coming
17:58in and taking whatever and jumping out.
18:01It's like you, you, you care about them.
18:04Yeah.
18:05You become a family in a way.
18:07Yeah.
18:07It's not, it's not a curtain down situation.
18:10It's an ongoing conversation.
18:11Exactly.
18:12It sounds like.
18:13Yeah.
18:13Exactly.
18:13And, and we've talked about original productions, but there is, there is such difficulty into
18:20stepping back into another world.
18:23Lucy, you were diving into the world of Gladiator, you know, some two decades after the original
18:28film came out and it won Best Picture.
18:32You know, people have an experience with it.
18:34But I'm wondering when you were heading into production, what were you most anticipatory
18:39of when it came to stepping back into the world of such a, a well-known movie?
18:45I think everybody was pretty scared.
18:48That's partly why it took 25, 25 years.
18:52There was, there was no version in which anybody wanted to rush a sequel because they
18:56were worried about seeming like a money grab for something.
19:00My husband who produced the movie, they killed off the two leads, which is if you're trying
19:05to make a sequel, it's not probably the first, not the biggest thing.
19:10And two of the other main actors had actually died.
19:13One died during the shooting, Oliver Reed.
19:15So that was, Mary was around for that.
19:17That was.
19:18I was a young executive that advocated for that project.
19:21It was one of the first things I really fought for.
19:23Well, a long, a long history.
19:26But Doug called me on a Sunday to tell me that.
19:28I'll never forget that call.
19:29Yeah.
19:29He won't either.
19:31It was a $90 million insurance claim.
19:34Yeah.
19:34They had a brilliant solution.
19:36It's a good example of producing.
19:37They did have a brilliant solution.
19:38But they, they, they first, the insurance company said that Ridley would have to go back
19:42and shoot the whole movie and it already shot more than half of it.
19:45And the idea for a director to have to go back and shoot, go back to Malta, go back to Morocco.
19:51We shoot the whole movie was like, they did come up with a great idea with just a little
19:56CGI and a little bit of a different ending.
19:58But it was, I would say, a challenge for everybody.
20:04Interestingly enough, Ridley, who I can't say enough good things about when you talk about
20:09a director, you can do everything right as a producer.
20:12But if you don't have a good director, you're screwed.
20:16You can, you can put, you can plug a lot of holes, but he has the whole movie in his head.
20:23He storyboards the whole movie long before we even have a finished script as we're sitting
20:27in story meetings, which we did for almost two years, trying to come up with a story that
20:31we thought was worthy and a character that we thought would be worthy.
20:36And we gave him a birthday party for his 86th birthday halfway through shooting.
20:43And we looked around the room and all of the head of departments were the same ones.
20:49So that's the loyalty that he had.
20:52That's awesome.
20:53That's incredible.
20:54The editor was different, but she didn't come to the party.
20:55Yeah.
20:56So it doesn't count.
20:57And we had a female stunt coordinator, which was pretty great, who wasn't on the original
21:04movie.
21:04But we basically had all the same people and everybody felt the same pressure.
21:09The cast was different, except for one, two people.
21:12But the pressure of walking onto the fully built Coliseum again for people, and even people
21:21that had only seen the movie and not worked on the first one, was a lot of pressure.
21:28So they all felt they had to top themselves.
21:31And they were all pros, and they did.
21:35And they followed a fearless leader.
21:37And we found, in our new cast of Pedro and Denzel and Paul, we were, and Fred Heckinger and Joe
21:47Quinn, we found the perfect cast.
21:50We all love each other.
21:52And they love each other.
21:53And they love Ridley.
21:54It was one of those things that was a really hard movie to shoot.
21:58It was a much harder movie to have to stop shooting.
22:01We had to close down for four months, which when I hear about your movies and I think about
22:06the waste that we had to incur to shut down and leave a full-size Coliseum, 14 blocks of ancient Rome,
22:172,000 extras, costumes, props, 450 hotel rooms for the crew, and say goodbye.
22:26One day, 2,000 people on the set.
22:29The next day, dark.
22:30And I think about what it takes to do the movies that you do and how much it costs just to rent
22:37the scaffolding to hold up the Coliseum for an extra four months.
22:41And Paul Mescal had to work out for the entire four months because his body would have changed
22:46and we never knew when we were going back.
22:49So the not shooting was as hard as the shooting in our case.
22:56And working out for four months.
22:59Luckily, he likes it.
23:01Good for him.
23:04We were lucky.
23:05I said the real reason why it took so long is we had to wait for Paul to be born.
23:11And Mary, you have a similar situation where you were going back into a world for Dune Part 2,
23:18of course not 25 years, 25 years after I was reading where you...
23:23Right away almost, yeah.
23:24Yeah, right away you were beginning soft prep.
23:27I am wondering, when you have that such a truncated period, what are you bringing from
23:34that first experience to the second experience of making the second movie?
23:38Do you have time to really evaluate and say, okay, this is what we can do better, this is
23:43what we can do differently as compared to the first one?
23:46How were those conversations, if they existed?
23:49Well, first, Denis, you know, it goes back to, I mean, we are nothing without the writers,
23:53the directors, the talent.
23:54But he was very smart and said when we began the journey, you know, we have to take this
24:00book, Frank Herbert's brilliant book, and split it into two parts.
24:04Because to tell it all in one film would be very difficult.
24:07So we sort of laughed through the first one and said, well, this is the hard part, you
24:11know, really setting the table for what's to come.
24:13And then realizing for the rest of the book, it's like, okay, right now it's even, you
24:18know, more world building, going deeper, and suddenly realizing, okay, this level of difficulty
24:23now and sort of, you know, raising the stakes and taking, you know, these characters that
24:27we've introduced.
24:28Because that's the thing about Denis, he's a really unique director in that he can tell,
24:33you know, he works as successfully as an intimate character director as he does as somebody
24:38working, you know, and painting on a very large canvas.
24:40So he effortlessly is able to toggle back and forth between the two.
24:46And, you know, a similar theme here, so much of it is authenticity.
24:50And because of what I think, you know, Frank Herbert gave us, and with so much a meditation
24:54on power and, you know, human dynamics and those relationships, it's grounding everything,
24:59even though you're building something that is, you know, you know, fictitious, it's grounded
25:04in real characters and real themes, you know, so it's playing that out through.
25:09And the second one was really very much about going into that world.
25:12And you're touching on something that you also brought up with Ridley, and you said in
25:17an interview, which I found fascinating, where it's very easy to, or it's easier to work
25:22with a director who has a clarity of vision.
25:24Absolutely.
25:25I am one.
25:27Well, this is my question for everyone is, you know, if you're working with a filmmaker
25:32who doesn't necessarily have that clarity, if you've ever come across that, how do you,
25:37yeah, is there a world where you can help them reach that?
25:42Yeah, hopefully they have other strengths.
25:43I mean, that's, I think all of us around the table have the luxury of working with some
25:47of the best filmmakers working.
25:48But then also, I think it's equally as exciting to support new filmmakers, you know,
25:53and hopefully, you know, their discernible talents align with what the, you know, the
25:59needs of the movie are.
26:00But that's part of what's exciting is that you can support them in all the experiences
26:04you've had, you know, to help take their talent, but channel the experience they haven't
26:09yet had to help them sort of see the icebergs in the water and to help, you know, help them
26:14build that vision.
26:15But yes, I will always vote for, get behind the strong vision and support that, you know,
26:20be the sounding board for that and the guardian of that, always.
26:23Yes, it's nice to have a map to know where you're going.
26:26I agree.
26:27But there are, there are some directors who find their ideas as they're going.
26:34You know, I know that's not true of Denis.
26:36I know that's not true of Ed.
26:39I know that's not true of Ridley.
26:42I don't know.
26:45You'd have to tell me.
26:48But then there are other kinds of directors who, who find it as they're going.
26:54And that works too.
26:56It's harder.
26:57Well, it's the best of both worlds.
26:58You hope.
26:59You hope that you can be prepared enough where you can go out there and you can do what,
27:03you know, what the director has planned and then you discover things.
27:06Yeah.
27:06Because that's the truth.
27:07Things do evolve in ways that you can't always predict.
27:10Yeah.
27:10And then if you can, those are the best productions, I feel like, where you can create an
27:14environment where people can do what's planned, but also experiment, explore.
27:20And some of the best things in movies come from things that weren't planned.
27:23Yeah.
27:23But do you think people can make something that isn't them?
27:27I mean, I've, it's so interesting to me that films usually are who's made them.
27:31Well, that's one of the first questions, right?
27:33We all ask directors, which is, you know, what is their reason for being, why are they
27:36making this movie?
27:37And what is at the core for them?
27:39Right.
27:39And understanding that DNA.
27:41And it may be disguised as something else, you know, or whatever it is within the genre.
27:46But hopefully they have, if they don't, that's a good red flag.
27:49Yeah.
27:50You know, if there's not really a reason or they don't know why they're making the movie.
27:54I think you're right.
27:55It's the meeting of a person with material.
27:57And sometimes that material comes from inside them.
28:00And sometimes it's something that you've given them.
28:02But actually it's the meeting of them with that story that makes something special or
28:05not really, doesn't it?
28:07Yeah.
28:07I think with Greg too, he was, he kind of knew, I think you have to understand the core.
28:13Yeah.
28:13If you don't, it's really hard to find your way.
28:15And from there you blossom.
28:17And I think for him, I really understood the vision, but within that vision was this
28:23level of flexibility of like, what happened, you know, bring in these real people and their
28:27stories, their lived experience, be flexible around that.
28:30So there were certain areas of the draft when we had a draft that were just like, you know,
28:35they talk about their perfect place.
28:37Like it wasn't written in the script.
28:39And so knowing that there was space for life to come in to the film, but we knew that we
28:45would kind of go in that direction.
28:47But definitely I think.
28:48That's where inspiration can come from.
28:49Yeah, exactly.
28:50Yeah.
28:50You have to be comfortable with that process.
28:53Yeah.
28:53The answer to that.
28:54When you don't know the answer and they don't know the answer and it's still going on.
29:00Yeah.
29:00So you have to like, be comfortable in the exploration too.
29:06And sometimes that's really hard.
29:09I think that's key though.
29:09I think a lot of this job is about being able to be comfortable in the uncomfortable.
29:15Yeah.
29:16And if you're not equipped for that, it's a very difficult job because I think to bring
29:20that energy, even when you're like, okay, we're at a cliff, we're at a precipice, or this
29:24isn't working, you know, it's figuring out how to break through that and not bring that
29:30energy in a way.
29:31Like if you're freaking out, it's going to freak everybody else out, you know?
29:34So even if you're really sweating it, you know, and knowing that you're in trouble, you've
29:38got to stay focused, figure out how you're going to get to the other side of it.
29:41I always say that, I don't know about you guys, but usually a film will be a moth before
29:46it's a butterfly.
29:47You know, when you're going through that.
29:49Oh, I'm feeling that.
29:50Yeah, I like that.
29:51Yeah, you have to remind yourself because you can be really sweating.
29:55You're like, oh gosh, you know, we've got to get through this.
29:57But if you start to panic, you know, that's when fear, I'll quote Dune, fear is the mind
30:01killer, you know?
30:02We're seeing a lot of that in the business right now.
30:04You know, so many people are driven by fear right now that like everyone's jumping ship
30:08and that's one thing as a producer, you can never jump ship.
30:11Because if you panic, I think you start to make fear-based decisions, you know, knee-jerk decisions,
30:15and you just got to, you got to ride through the storm.
30:18You know, that's what I've learned.
30:20And especially now in this environment, it's just, you're like, oh, they just went out
30:23the door.
30:24Whoops, they're right off the side of the boat, you know?
30:26And you've just got to, while being honest, you know, and objective, stay the course to
30:31get through.
30:31And you will break through, you know?
30:33Not every film turns out the way that you want it to.
30:36Obviously, if we're not more right than wrong, we don't get to keep doing what we're doing.
30:39But that's the most damaging, I think, is when the producer starts panicking.
30:43I also think the opportunity for serendipity and to pivot is a huge part of our job and
30:51the director's job.
30:53On Gatsby, we all were looking forward to shooting the scene where Gatsby beats Daisy
30:58since it's a big part of the movie.
31:00And we drove two hours to our location and it was pouring rain for the entire day, so
31:06we couldn't shoot.
31:07So we went back again, leaving trucks stuck in the mud.
31:11I mean, it was that kind of rain.
31:13We went back again and it was pouring again.
31:16The third time we said, we'll shoot it in the rain.
31:20Right.
31:20And it was not how it was in the book, but it was a great scene.
31:23Leo comes drenched in rain.
31:25That was, that's what we had and that's what we used.
31:28So it's, I think part of it is, and I think it's a really fun problem solving part, but
31:33you're right, it's scary.
31:35Yeah.
31:35And I also think the best producers and the best directors try to get the best from whoever
31:42they have.
31:43And so they listen to it.
31:43It's a big part of your job.
31:44I think that with newer directors, at least in my experience, and there's some that are
31:49just geniuses out of the box and God bless them, but some of them want to control it too
31:55much.
31:56And you think, listen to the DP.
31:59Yeah.
31:59Don't do anything you don't want to do, but listen and learn.
32:02Listen to the production designer, listen, the costumer can help you figure out so many
32:08things about the character that you never thought of.
32:10And for me, the biggest pleasure is when I can say, in a million years, I could have never
32:17thought of that.
32:19That's where you know you're in the right place at the right time when the other people
32:24are bringing things that nobody else could have done.
32:27And even the director can't have all of it in his head, her head, her head.
32:33But even being open to that serendipity can make things even better than you ever imagined.
32:37Turning a negative into a positive.
32:38How many times does that happen?
32:40Like, this person's really funny.
32:41Let me get them more to do.
32:43That's, you know, a lot of stuff like that.
32:45So it's thinking on your feet.
32:46And getting, I've had trucks stuck in mud.
32:49Reverend.
32:49Yes.
32:50That is.
32:51You pivot.
32:52A lot of mud.
32:54Filmmaking is 90% mud.
32:55Some of those trucks, I think, are still there.
33:00Left them.
33:01Tessa and Lucy, I love that both of you recreated Rome in your movies, but in very different
33:08ways.
33:08That's how similar we are.
33:09Yes.
33:11You have these massive set pieces in this movie.
33:13You have the Vatican.
33:14You have the Sistine Chapel.
33:15You have the Colosseum.
33:16When you are looking at the screenplay for the first time, when you see those massive set
33:24pieces, are you just going, oh my gosh, how am I going to do this?
33:28Or does your mind immediately go into problem-solving mode?
33:31It's the honest truth.
33:32I, you know, reading the screenplays for me, it's always about story and character.
33:35And it was only once Edward started that, you know, casting and problems and, you know,
33:42the actual practicalities of how Rome would look.
33:44And then in the end, it was about how, how like Rome, he wanted as much of it to feel
33:50like, whilst also being able to bring a really contemporary feel against it.
33:54So that there was contrast, a kind of jagged contrast to the beauty that the modern kept
33:59hitting the ancient.
34:01And so what he did with Susie Davis, our production designer and a most wonderful location manager,
34:05we had the most amazing Italian crew, but Roberto was our location manager.
34:09And they pieced together this kind of amazing patchwork that was the Vatican of mostly Roman
34:13locations, a little bit out of Naples.
34:16And then this set that was built at Cinecita.
34:19Lucy, what about, what about for you?
34:20Well, luckily we had a movie that people already liked.
34:25So it was one of the few times, Mary heard me say this, where the studio wanted to make
34:29the movie.
34:31Yeah, that is fair.
34:32Yeah.
34:34So, so, but we did have a lot of trouble holding on to some of the big action pieces,
34:40which obviously are part of why people see the movie.
34:43And part of it is the intimate personal drama.
34:46And we always, whenever the studio got a little rough with us, we would say, well, we can always
34:50take out the naval battle.
34:52Yeah.
34:55We know one way to save money.
34:57Yeah.
34:58And they're like, no, no, no.
34:59And I said, well, then what about the rhino?
35:01I go, yeah, we can take out the rhino.
35:03Because we couldn't shoot the rhino the first time because you couldn't, it was too expensive
35:08to do the CGI then.
35:09And so Doug called the rhino wrangler, such as it is, and said, well, what about bringing
35:18a real rhino?
35:18And he said, well, they're not that trainable.
35:21Once they start to run, they can't stop.
35:23So there was like a few deaths.
35:26Okay.
35:28We'll save the rhino.
35:30So later, but our sets took so many months to build that I keep being embarrassed about
35:39our costs compared to the beautiful movies that you guys make for so much less.
35:44But it did take months to months to build it.
35:47And so our production designer is in another country just building, building a way to his
35:53heart's content and nobody was there supervising.
35:57So the first time when we went, oh my God, it's a little bigger.
36:00It's a little bigger than we thought.
36:04But that was also a privilege because we did have the feeling you can't help but compare
36:13the end of Rome, which is our story starts at the beginning of the decline and certain
36:20bells are ringing in contemporary life.
36:24Oh, really?
36:25But we had a feeling that they may never be another build like this again.
36:31So we felt the privilege of the old fashioned way of making a movie where you could build
36:36it because now mostly so much is CGI.
36:38And we did do CGI enhancements, plenty of them, but we did actually step into the Coliseum
36:45and every single person felt it when we did it.
36:48Dean Tavalleros told a story.
36:50I worked for Francis Coppola for a few years when he had the little studio Zoetrope in Los
36:55Angeles.
36:55And he told a story about how he put in hardwood floors in The Godfather.
37:01And then they decided to put carpet on top of the hardwood floors.
37:05And then somebody yelled at him and said, how could you put hardwood floors and then waste
37:09the money and put carpet on top?
37:11And he answered, the actors will act better knowing that there's hardwood underneath that
37:18carpet.
37:19And then he paused and said, and they did.
37:22I love that.
37:23And I believe it.
37:24I had nothing to do with that story, but I thought I'd share it.
37:28It's incredible.
37:29I, it is interesting talking about this tactile experience of being on set.
37:34Mary, I know Denise likes being a tactile filmmaker, doing things practically.
37:39When it comes to producing that, what does that, what does that entail?
37:43You know, I, I know this movie, you were in the desert a lot more for part two than you
37:48just hate sand now.
37:50You know what?
37:51It was inspiring, but he was right.
37:52I mean, it's, there was something he was also very clear about from the start to really
37:57put boots on the ground and nature and humans relationship to nature is a big part of what
38:03the movie is.
38:04And it's impossible to replicate that.
38:06It was actually really inspiring and humbling, you know, getting up in the morning and seeing
38:10the sunrise and we were all in very good shape, hiking in the dunes, you know, it was wonderful,
38:15you know, and tremendous DP, Greg Frazier, you know, and dealing with the elements in that
38:19regard, knock on wood, we got very lucky.
38:21We didn't have a big sandstorm, you know, we were able to get through it.
38:24The, the movie gods were, were in our favor.
38:27We, we did it obviously later in the year just for heat, you know, and for the actors
38:31wearing, you know, these suits and it was still very hot, you know.
38:35But that was a, you know, again, it goes back to understanding, I think the director's
38:39vision, the DNA of the film.
38:41You said a little bit, Amy, I think that's one of the key things as a producer is to be
38:44able to, you know, in collaboration with the director, like what is the DNA of the movie?
38:49What are the, what are the key things that if we don't do this, obviously we want to do
38:53everything to the best of its ability, but what are the things that if we don't deliver
38:57on really, the film's not going to work, the story's not going to work.
39:00And being mindful of those things, because at the end of the day, there's a limitation,
39:05you know, I've worked on films of, you know, small scale, big scale, there's never enough
39:09money, you know.
39:11Obviously there's a lot more money on bigger films, but you're spending a lot more money
39:14too, and, you know, trying to be really cost conscious, not diminishing returns, but mindful
39:19of where you're going to put that money.
39:21So it's really, you know, you got to understand, like, what is, what is the story we're telling?
39:25What, where do we really need to spend the money here?
39:27Where can we find other ways to discover new people, bring more people up, you know?
39:33And that's important.
39:34And those are the things to always be mindful of, because otherwise, you know, it's easy
39:38to get away from you, right?
39:39Great directors are always very mindful of that, but you've got to make sure you're
39:42figuring out constantly how to support them in doing that.
39:45And I find that directors aren't continually pushing.
39:48I like that tension, you know, where they're, I want to do it again, or I got to keep pushing,
39:52I got to keep pushing, you know, and then working with them to figure out, it's like,
39:55okay, now you, okay, now we got to move on to this.
39:58But figuring out how to really push the boundaries, discover new things, and make sure you're delivering
40:03on what the essence and the DNA of the film is.
40:05Otherwise, I don't think you really have a shot, you know, of making something great.
40:09And that's hard.
40:09It's a lot harder than it seems.
40:11If it were easy, every film would be great, you know?
40:13If filmmaking were easy, you know, we'd see a lot, the quality of the films would be a
40:17lot better.
40:18It's tough, you know, especially in this environment.
40:21Yeah, it's that healthy tension can breed something beautiful.
40:25That's something Tony Garnett used to say.
40:27Tony Garnett used to say, you have to be a sort of a loving challenger.
40:31And it was that idea that you put your arm around.
40:34That's a really good way.
40:34Your real project.
40:35And that gave you the right.
40:36You said, look, I love this, and I'm completely behind you, and everything you want is what
40:40I want to achieve, and I'm going to be really tough.
40:43And he did that.
40:44Yeah, he did.
40:45He did.
40:45And I think it's interesting what you say and also what Mary said, because I think so
40:50much of the job of being a producer, because the days are so hard.
40:55Yeah.
40:55Once you, you know, six o'clock and you're starting, like, there's a million things that
40:59are happening.
41:00Yeah.
41:01And even the director can get a little lost in just getting the day.
41:04Yeah.
41:04So it feels to me like, at least for myself, one of the things that I find helpful is to
41:13talk to the director about what it was they meant.
41:15Hmm.
41:16Right?
41:16What was it that you wanted this to be?
41:19And to try to say, remember the conversation we had when this was what that scene was about.
41:25Yeah.
41:25Right?
41:26Because it can be about a lot of other things when you get on set.
41:30Yeah.
41:30Rather than what it's actually about.
41:32And getting what it's about is actually what you want to get.
41:37You have nothing.
41:38Denise is a writer-director.
41:39Yeah.
41:39Yeah.
41:39Phil Micron, right now is writer-director.
41:41Helps a lot to.
41:42Yeah.
41:43The most disrespected people on the movie are the people that actually are the best.
41:46And that script never heard a movie.
41:48Yeah.
41:49That feels like a t-shirt.
41:51Yeah.
41:51That script never heard a movie.
41:52Could I also just add, Lucy, I think that, yeah, we, whether it's $1 million or $5 million
41:59or $10 million or $300 million, there are always issues.
42:04You know, like, we might not have had as much money as Gladiator, but I never had to get
42:10a rhinoceros.
42:11Yeah.
42:12Or build a coliseum.
42:14Or build a coliseum.
42:15You know, like, it's all relative.
42:17Yeah, it is.
42:18And any movie is impossible.
42:20Yeah.
42:21It's a miracle when a movie is impossible.
42:22It's a miracle to even get a movie made.
42:24Exactly.
42:25Forget it.
42:26Get it off the ground.
42:26Like, it'll be good.
42:27You're right.
42:28That's one of the biggest mistakes you can make.
42:30It's a miracle.
42:31It's a miracle.
42:32And it's a miracle that we better be able to continue because people have to go to the
42:37theaters and see these movies, and we have to make them good enough that they don't
42:41say, well, I don't see when I want to watch.
42:45Right.
42:46And that's...
42:47But that goes back to turning a negative into a positive, right?
42:50Yeah.
42:50And so challenging everybody to do their best work.
42:52Because I think as an industry, we got away with it for a long time.
42:54I also think you can almost do anything now with the effects and special effects, because the
43:04rhino is both.
43:05But if you don't protect your actors so that they can be real characters that you can empathize
43:11with and care about, you're going to have a soulless movie, and it's going to...
43:16And when directors are lost, sometimes they overdo the production design or they focus
43:20on the wrong thing because they don't...
43:23They lost the DNA, which is...
43:25I'm stealing that from all of you guys.
43:28But...
43:29Soulless is a good word.
43:30Yeah.
43:31So I think that that, you know, doing the spectacle and protecting the actors and making them
43:37your partners and also casting is so important.
43:41If you get the right actor, you're watching something that's different and better and
43:47luckier than even what was on the page.
43:49Then you say, I had the right career.
43:52I made the right choice.
43:53I love my work.
43:54I know.
43:54Yeah.
43:55Speaking of protecting actors, Monique, I would be remiss without speaking about Sing
44:03Sing's financing structure, which I find so, so interesting.
44:08What was the financing?
44:08Yeah.
44:09I mean, I...
44:11When you first told me about it, I fell in love with it.
44:14I found it to be incredible.
44:15But, you know, from everyone from on Sing Sing's set, from the PA to the star, were all paid
44:21the same salary.
44:23And then everyone was given equity in the film.
44:26Correct me if I'm wrong.
44:27I'm wondering, did you notice that structure affect behavior on set?
44:33And ultimately, why did you all decide to do that?
44:36Yeah.
44:36I mean, that was...
44:37So the financing structure was something that Greg and Clint brought to me when they
44:41pitched me the movie because they had done it on their previous film, Jockey.
44:44And, you know, they said, you know, we tried this model and we want to scale it up.
44:47Not much bigger, you know, we're still on an indie budget, but with a 50-person crew and,
44:52you know, do you think you can help us figure out how to do it?
44:55But, and I thought it was the right way, like, just like intuitively, I was like, this is
45:00the right way to do this because of the way we were building it as a community and how much
45:06we were trying to create a space for exchange with the community.
45:11And so, yeah, the structure is that everyone, there's pay parity across the board.
45:17So from Coleman to the PA to through Post, everyone gets paid the same rate.
45:23And we, you know, we used, we worked with, we had SAG as our union, so we used the SAG
45:28rate for the, for the budget level we were on.
45:30And it's the same daily or weekly rate.
45:32So everyone gets the same.
45:34And then everyone participates in the backend and based on the period of time that they
45:40work on the film, the phase of the film.
45:43So, you know, the value proposition is that everyone has the same inherent value.
45:47The only variable is time.
45:50And we felt like that was the way to really kind of, you know, talking about the DNA, you
45:56know, really build the DNA in such a way that everyone felt like they weren't an employee,
46:01but they were a stakeholder.
46:03And because, yeah, because it's a small film.
46:06And also, you know, doing pay parity in that way for an indie film is just a way also to,
46:10the budget is lowered.
46:12Yeah.
46:12Yeah, the budget is lowered.
46:15And also everyone knows they're going to have to really empty the tank because we still have,
46:19you know, a 50 person crew is not a very large crew either.
46:21And so everyone is still, you know, going beyond to, to get the film done, but then they're
46:28also participating if the film has, is successful.
46:31And yeah.
46:32And one, one thing we learned too was that, yeah, it created that culture.
46:36It's like, I think as producers, we're always trying to nurture and create a culture on set
46:41that can bring out the best of everyone, everyone's work and that everyone can feel
46:45like they have ownership in some way of the story and, and also creating a culture of exchange.
46:51Like Greg was very much like, I want to erase the line.
46:54He's like, I don't even want to see a budget with a budget line and below the line.
46:57He's like, he's like, change the, you know, change the budget.
46:59I don't want to see above the line.
47:00And so he was like, there's no hierarchy here.
47:03I want everything to be, um, I want there to be an exchange between the cast and the
47:08department heads and everything and this, and, but also kind of building it.
47:12Yeah.
47:12Building the financing with that in mind, I think helped everyone come on board and, and,
47:18and we found that people leaned into it.
47:20Also, as a producer, it's like, there's no negotiating.
47:24That's so really good.
47:26It's selfish.
47:27It is what it is.
47:28Yeah.
47:29Selfishly, it's kind of like, the point.
47:31And also it's just like, if you can't do it, it's okay.
47:34It's not for you.
47:35But then the people who wanted to do it leaned into it.
47:37Bravo.
47:38Bravo to you.
47:39Bravo.
47:39It's like a barrier to entry at that point where you're like, okay, these people who are buying
47:43and.
47:44Yeah.
47:45And, and, and, and thankfully we were fortunate enough to sell the film such that we were able
47:48to issue checks to over 90 artists in the, in the movie in the end at a time.
47:53That's so great.
47:53Yeah.
47:54Yeah.
47:55Amazing.
47:55Yeah.
47:56We, we have to change our financing structure to make, to make our business functional, I
48:02think, truly, because I think we won't be getting the most talented people attracted to
48:06it anymore if they feel like they're working for the man and they're not working for their
48:12own work and they're not compensated for their, for their work, for getting whatever stupid
48:20high salaries.
48:21Some people get, owners of companies are raking in much more.
48:26And I think until we, which is not a popular opinion among the people that finance movies,
48:32but if, until, until people can participate more, I think we'll, we will have a brain drain
48:38of talent that says, I, I don't, I don't want to work as a paid salary person for somebody
48:44else.
48:45Yeah.
48:45I am entrepreneurial.
48:47I'm an artist.
48:48I agree.
48:49It's the opposite of what all the, I'm allowed to say, all the streaming companies have done
48:55because they pay you all this money up front, right?
48:58And it was, I think if people could bet on the movie and do more what you're talking about,
49:07I think people work differently.
49:08I speak to, um, a lot of young producers who talk about the difficulty of being in the space.
49:15And I know there's a lot of efforts happening, whether it's, you know, ensuring healthcare in
49:20between projects or, you know, speaking to things about development fees.
49:24I'm wondering for you all as very successful producers and in the space, what needs to
49:30happen in order to create a producing field, uh, as a sustainable profession?
49:40Yeah.
49:40That's a good question.
49:41Yeah.
49:42Can you guys fix Hollywood?
49:45I was president of the Producers Guild for four years and it's a, you cannot make a living
49:51as an entry level producer right now, or as a struggling director waiting for your first movie.
50:00And, um, I, I, the, the question is a question that everyone should be asking, but I, you know,
50:06the answer is we have to figure out a way to have people be able to live, except if their
50:14parents are paying for their apartment, I mean, that's not, that's not a way to have a healthy
50:18business.
50:18No, but it's the same thing that's going on in our country.
50:21Yeah.
50:21It's the same thing.
50:21It's the same thing.
50:21It's the same thing.
50:21It's the same thing.
50:22It's the same thing.
50:22It's the same thing between people is so severe.
50:26Yes.
50:27Yeah.
50:27And I think.
50:28And untenable.
50:29Yeah.
50:29I feel like that was one of my first questions coming into producing.
50:32I went to the Sundance Producing Lab and my first question was like, so how does this
50:35sustainable job, can someone please share with me?
50:39Um, cause also the way I like to work is, you know, the development period can take years
50:43and, but it's, it's necessary, you know, you're working with a writer director and it's like,
50:49maybe the idea is just a tiny little idea and it's starting.
50:52And over time you build and build and build.
50:54And I think it's worth it, you know, and especially in the way that I've made my previous films of
50:59like you build relationships with community that takes time.
51:01And so it's, it's a really crucial part of the process, but it's not funded.
51:06So then you're kind of working.
51:08So I'm like, okay, I just joined another project and I'm, you know, basically signing on to
51:13develop the project for who knows how long unpaid.
51:16And, um, that was the impetus, you know, for me for joining, you know, producers union,
51:21which was started by Rebecca Green and then eventually producers United, because it's like,
51:26we need a collective where we're all working to figure out how to make this more sustainable,
51:30how to talk to studios, how to talk to agents and figure out how to create, you know,
51:35some sort of baseline standards of like healthcare, wage minimums, you know, ways for people to,
51:41because also you're not, if, if you're not supported in that way, it also, um, propels
51:48this structure of people of not really having a diverse group of talent, talented producers
51:53and women and, you know, people who can like support their lives and also put, you know,
51:58energy into the work.
51:59So I'm making the wrong things.
52:01Yeah.
52:01Because you're like, the UK has a little advantage in that it's always hard.
52:04Make money out.
52:06Sorry, I don't want to interrupt, but it's had a bit of public money and that public money
52:10has not necessarily paid producers.
52:12You know, there's no such thing as a salary if you're developing a film for five years,
52:15but it has allowed some.
52:17Five years is short.
52:18Yeah, no, I was taking it as a really happy moment, but, but it has made a difference
52:24that the public television companies, so Channel 4 and the BBC, and then now the BFI, but,
52:29you know, but was British Screen are, are committed to some form of sustainable investment
52:35in, in new film, young, new filmmakers, producers.
52:38And so a little bit of overhead for young production companies.
52:42And that's, that has made a difference.
52:44It's sort of shown that there's an intent for the diversity that you're talking about
52:47for the inclusion of people who couldn't ever imagine a career in film might be possible.
52:52Um, and I just think, thinking that great art comes from risk, which is what we all believe
52:58means that the risk money has to be available so that sometimes it can burst into the market
53:02and that, and, and America doesn't have that softer.
53:06No, we have guns instead.
53:08I'm so sorry.
53:09Well, for us, it was different too, because what we tried to do, we didn't have a big budget
53:13and we tried to put all of the, as much, all of the money on the screen.
53:17Mm-hm. And when we came to a situation where we needed a little bit more money, the first
53:23thing that went was me and Alex Coco, my other producer.
53:26Oh, wait. Oh, yeah.
53:27Cut in him.
53:27Yeah, always.
53:28Like, we had a cut in ours and we were like, okay, I don't have children and, and he just
53:34had a baby.
53:35Mm-hm.
53:35And I think it's something that we do this because we love it.
53:38We put everything into it, like you said, like development, everything.
53:43And sometimes it's hard to, to say, okay, well, um, we don't have this, but these are
53:50our babies and this is, we love the art.
53:55And unfortunately, sometimes the thing is, the finances don't match that.
54:01Next time, just say no.
54:03Yeah.
54:04No fucking way.
54:06I've thrown in, you know, thrown in my salary many times as a producer doing it.
54:11It helps if you have a bigger salary to throw in, obviously, but many times on a smaller
54:15film I did, I, I paid for some of the pre-production, hoping, you know, knowing that there was a risk
54:20that it wasn't going to go.
54:21I mean, you just, sometimes you just don't have a choice, you know?
54:23Mm-hm.
54:24Yeah, but the producer doesn't always have to be the first person to cut their face.
54:28Right.
54:29Like the first one, yeah.
54:30It's just another reason why every movie is a little miracle.
54:33Yeah.
54:34For sure.
54:35It's incredible.
54:36And I'm so sad to say this, but we are at our hour.
54:40Wow.
54:41I know.
54:43I know.
54:44I can't thank you guys enough for joining us and congratulations on all of your movies.
54:50They're all incredible.
54:51Thank you so much.
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