- 6 days ago
On today’s episode, Editor in Chief Sarah Wheeler and Lead Analyst Logan Mohtashami talk about listeners' frequently asked questions on a wide range of topics.
Related to this episode:
Logan Mohtashami
https://www.housingwire.com/author/logan-mohtashami/
HousingWire | YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXDD_3y3LvU60vac7eki-6Q
More info about HousingWire
https://lnk.bio/housingwire
To learn more about Trust & Will, click here.
https://trustandwill.com/
The HousingWire Daily podcast brings the full picture of the most compelling stories in the housing market reported across HousingWire. Each morning, listen to editor in chief Sarah Wheeler talk to leading industry voices and get a deeper look behind the scenes of the top mortgage and real estate.
Related to this episode:
Logan Mohtashami
https://www.housingwire.com/author/logan-mohtashami/
HousingWire | YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXDD_3y3LvU60vac7eki-6Q
More info about HousingWire
https://lnk.bio/housingwire
To learn more about Trust & Will, click here.
https://trustandwill.com/
The HousingWire Daily podcast brings the full picture of the most compelling stories in the housing market reported across HousingWire. Each morning, listen to editor in chief Sarah Wheeler talk to leading industry voices and get a deeper look behind the scenes of the top mortgage and real estate.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Welcome, everyone. My guest today for this special unplugged episode of the Housing
00:11Water Daily podcast is lead analyst Logan Motoshami. We're going to talk about a range
00:16of things, you know, including the questions he gets asked the most. I'm going to press
00:20him on mortgage rates. It's going to be a fun episode. First, I want to say thank you
00:25to our sponsor, Trust in Will, for making this episode possible. Logan, welcome back
00:30to the podcast. It is wonderful to be here. This is not going to be the economic data runs
00:36that we usually are accustomed to. Yeah, I thought let's do something different for Black
00:40Friday, right? For that podcast shouldn't be normal. Is it technically still Black Friday
00:46with all the savings that we always get? You know, it's just like it doesn't have as much
00:50value. And you just don't see the 600 people waiting in line for, you know, best is Best
00:58Buy even around still, you know? Yeah, no, it is. Or like people fighting each other for
01:04TVs, which, you know, that's a positive and that's a positive development. Yeah, things
01:08have changed so much. Okay, well, I we wanted to take some questions from the audience. But
01:14first, I wanted to start off with we get a lot of questions like how did the lead analyst
01:20part of your life start, right? We know a little bit of the backstory, but when did you start
01:25really studying economics and becoming proficient in, you know, economic housing topics?
01:34You know, as a former CIA agent, we have to do a cover as a, you know, it's, this is all
01:43a tragic accident. This just, none of this was ever planned. My whole thing is I was going
01:49to be a high school basketball coach and teach history. And then in 1999, they said your
01:55first paycheck is like $26,000. I was like, okay, that's not going to work. So
01:59Wait, your annual, your annual? Yeah, my annual, yeah, my first paycheck, my yearly salary is
02:05$26,000. I was like, no.
02:06And you live in Irvine, California. What do you buy in Irvine, California?
02:10You can buy four trash bins if you want.
02:12So I got into the stock market and mortgage business in the late 1990s. So then I, you know,
02:20became a loan officer and did that. But this all really started in 2010 with the advent of Facebook
02:28and social media. A lot of people are just commenting left and right. And there's a guy
02:34named Jason Resnick who runs Benzinga. And he saw me debating Michelle Cabrera from CNBC on a topic.
02:42He said, hey, do you want to write for us? You know, and like, you want to write political
02:47economics? I'm like, God, hell no. I hate politics. But you know what? I, there's things about the
02:52housing market that I just, I see that aren't legit. Maybe, maybe that'll what I do. That's how
02:58this all started. It was never by any attention. And then of course I started writing for Benzinga,
03:06then created my own blog and then just did commentary work. But oddly enough, you know,
03:12doing the social media circuit, you know, I realized something. There's just a lot of bad
03:18information out there. So oddly enough, I'm a by-product of the anti-central bank movement,
03:24right? Like the doomers, like I sat there and I just watched these people who's just constantly
03:29bearish and bearish. And I was like, you know, this is just not right. It's just the genetic code by
03:34some people. Some people are just natural doomers and, you know, they just, me, I was just like,
03:39no, you got to be a leader here. So I thought to myself by 2014 and 2015, it's like, let's do this
03:44a little bit differently. Let's make this more of an analytical write-ups now, you know, and talk
03:50about the economic cycle first and then housing. And let's, let's, let's, let's try to teach people
03:55economics. So that's, that's how things changed for me even in 2015 and on. And you didn't know me
04:03back then. I was just as, just as loud mouth and, and, and arrogant as I am today, but we were
04:09dealing with a lot of recession people because of 2008, it created a 2008 mental syndrome in men
04:16that everything is housing 2008 or cycles of 2008. So we just wanted to go after people's economic
04:21work. And then 2019 came, Clayton asked me if I wanted to write for housing.
04:28Collins, that's our CEO. Yes. And at first I was like, really hesitant. I was just like,
04:32you know, I'm just, I'm kind of starting the end of this whole thing. I was going to be done
04:36writing in 2024, but a lot of mortgage people asked me if I would just write. And here we are
04:43five years later after the 2019 hire. And then of course COVID came and then we wrote the COVID-19
04:49recovery model on April 7th, 2020. And then we highlighted the structural dynamics of housing
04:55was shifting toward the end of 2022. And we're just nerding out 24 seven, but this was never
05:02planned. This was just, you know, something came up and we just took it. I always take things to the
05:09extreme and you always want to be the best at what you do. And so this is, this is where we are today.
05:14Okay. So the fact that you were, this origin story is really in the, you know, in the social media
05:20world, it explains a lot, right? Like this is, this is where you sort of came up with your combative
05:26style, which I think you love anyway, like on social media, you're very, you tend to be very
05:30combative. You want to be educational, but you also want to fight.
05:34That is just because what's, what's occurred here is dealing with the Russians. I'm not kidding
05:40when I tell people I dealt with the Russians on social media, on Facebook sites, you could see them
05:45there. These aren't real, real people. And the Russian troll camps were spreading a lot of
05:51disinformation. There's not much different than the Russians and then the anti-Central Bank people.
05:55They actually, a lot of them say the same thing. And also I kind of cracked the code with one of the
06:00Russian people. And I learned a lot about how they syndicate their, their troll networks. But,
06:04but I thought to myself, what, what happened is that here was COVID. We recovered from COVID.
06:11There was a forbearance crash bros and all here we are in 2022. These people don't give it up.
06:16And the academic world doesn't take these people head on. Like we're in a, like, this is a new Jack
06:21economy. You need a new Jack city cop. So, oh yeah, this is a, that's, that's homage to Nino Brown,
06:28by the way, for those who know, for those who know who Nino Brown is, you all get me.
06:32Yes. You all get, you all get me totally. So in 2022, I thought, let's take them all along.
06:39Then the, the, the bill, the butcher, the challenging people to live debates, getting their
06:45forecasts, getting their models and creating a database, which I already collected since 2012,
06:50but these people never stop. Like the devil never stops whispering in people's ear.
06:54So you have to go at them just because if you go at them, then you could teach people economics,
07:00right? You could teach them how models work and forecasting and all this stuff, but you can't do
07:05it as the academic world has done in the past by talking about, you know, how, how, how economists
07:11view economics within the economic sphere is a little bit too complicated. So you do the gladiator theory,
07:19you get them into the fighting pits in front of everybody and you destroy every man you possibly
07:25can, but you do it in public. So their wife, their children, their neighbors, their coworkers,
07:30everybody realized you get their names and faces and you string them out for 20 years because these
07:36are not the intellects of society. These are just doom porn people that you get paid for doing this
07:41in this day and age. So use their own tactics to get them, trick them into a live debate,
07:47and then just let it rain, right? Just let it rain. And we've done these four debates on,
07:54even on housing wire. There's all these YouTube. I, I, if you guys want to hear, see some funny
07:59stuff, go look me up on YouTube and debating some of these people. It's just by facial reaction.
08:04You could just see that. I was like, Oh my God, what does this person even say? But that's how you
08:09defeat your enemies, right? In public, visually get them to forecast. They can't do it. They can't do it
08:15the next 20 years. I think that this is a key difference between you and almost every other
08:20economist that I know, every economist I know. We know, we know a couple who are on social,
08:24but one of the questions that we get sometimes people ask me, ask you is like, what's the point
08:31of doing that? You know, why are we talking about what the doomers on social media say?
08:35And I think what you and I both, sorry, let me start that over again. And I think what you and I both
08:42understand is that this is where the majority of people get their news. Like a lot of people in
08:47our industry are just, you know, they're, they're very well educated that, you know, we're a B2B site.
08:52We're talking about a lot of executives, people who, who know a lot and, and they're reading the
08:57wall street journal. They're reading us, they're reading Bloomberg, but their clients, the home buyers,
09:03the people that they deal with, they're the consumers who are getting most of their information
09:07from YouTube. And so I think that this is one of the things that like, you think it's really
09:13important to take them on where they are, because this is the, this is where the fight is happening.
09:18The fight is not happening in the nice, you know, pages of some, you know, legacy media it's
09:24happening in social.
09:26So my thing is that the media has failed the U S consumer by not actually providing this.
09:34And this is everyone, this is every media outlet in America, the bleeds.
09:37Except us.
09:38Huh?
09:39Except us.
09:40No, no. But I mean, just, just, just in general, the headlines have to generate attention.
09:45And then the stuff is within the, within the data lines. And the, what the stuff is in the
09:49data line doesn't really make sense to a lot of people because all people see is this tweet,
09:55this video, this person on Instagram and everything. And it just dwarfs everything out.
10:00So you need to have somebody to go out there and explain it in a way that's understandable,
10:06that can make sense, but also have a forecast and a, a back testing and a way to get you from
10:14A to B to C. And I do not believe the media is trained to do this. And I don't believe the
10:20academic world and the economy economists are trained to deal with the social media world we're
10:25dealing with. So you see this stuff on Twitter, like there's a lot, like the, one of the glorious,
10:31great things is that we have so many talented people on X that are economists that nobody would
10:36ever have access to. And they give so much great information, but I think that information cannot
10:41be disseminated to normal people. And I understand, like, I get what they're saying, but you have
10:46to say it in a way because then you, then your army becomes kind of everyone. Like everyone's,
10:51oh yeah, yeah, that's not, that's not right. Oh, I mean, how many times have we dealt with
10:56housing 2008 since 2008 happens every year because they're not serious. We want to be serious,
11:02but we need to teach this. If I, if I do my job, right. Our readers can finish my sentence.
11:08Our readers understand what the tracker means. Our readers understand that the foreclosure data is
11:13not what these people talk about. And then in that you become in a sense every single day,
11:18these people actually will spread the knowledge in the world. And when you educate a society
11:23it is the worst thing for fanatics in going back thousands of years. They can't, you know,
11:29deceiving people is one thing, but an educated society, it's harder to deceive an educated group.
11:35I love it. Okay. Well, let's talk about some of the questions that you get most often. So the questions
11:40that, so every Friday night you take questions on Instagram, people can send you things. And what you do
11:46is you go through and you're like, you look at all the ones you got. You're like, what are the,
11:49what are the themes? So talk about that. But also like, what, when you go to conferences,
11:54you speak at a lot of places, what are the, what are the biggest questions that people have for you?
11:59So I would say this on Instagram, we do the live 24 hours Q and a, so somebody, somebody will write a
12:06question and I'll give a video response to it. But I would say the Instagram is a weekly thing.
12:11And a lot of it is, you know, where are rates going and our home prices crashing, you know,
12:16and what's the fed going to do? So that's generally what, what, what I get mostly there.
12:22One of the, one of the greatest questions, the most common questions, not only while I'm here
12:27in housing wire, but also the last 10 years is the silver tsunami. Right. And I thought,
12:32I thought this was one of the more creative grifts that I've seen in the last 25 years. The silver
12:37tsunami was this notion that the first baby boomer hit 2000 or hit 62 in 2008. So the great
12:44downsizing of all the baby boomers who could not sell their homes to millennials, who couldn't buy
12:49avocado toast and home prices have to fall an X amount. And during this period of time, the,
12:55like that doesn't exist. Like you don't have a student, like a demographic is a very slow process.
13:01It's not a wave, but from 2015 to 2025, that was supposed to be the big spike in inventory,
13:0726 to 32 million. They still use the 26 to 32 million inventory data, even after 10 years of
13:13being wrong. That's not how inventory channels work because most sellers are home buyers. And
13:18the only vertical inventory data we had was from 2006 to 2007, but here it is every single year,
13:26every single conference, there's always a silver tsunami. Like what are going to happen? Well,
13:29first we've gone, the, the down, the downsizing thing failed tragically. Right. But now it goes
13:35into death. Like what are all these baby boomers going to do when they all die off? Right. When
13:40they all die off, they're going to give their homes to their children. Their children are going to,
13:44whatever they do in probate or whatever that's, we'll see when that happens. I do believe more in
13:48the death theory than I do believed in this silver tsunami from 2015 to 2025. This was going to be the
13:54great period of time where inventory is going to skyrocket, just not, not to be the case. So
13:58that's one question that I've always gotten. There's always a silver tsunami question out there.
14:03And I've always thought that it was a very effective grift for a long time because they moved from
14:07downsizing to eventual death. But I also think that is, um, it's so successful because it has a green,
14:16you know, I mean, there's, there's a basis of truth there that you have all these people who are
14:20entering this other part of their lives and you would think, Oh, they, they want to do this. Like
14:24to me, that one makes sense. It's, it turns out it's, it doesn't play out in reality, but it makes
14:30sense. The premise of that to me, the supply and demand equilibrium, a lot of people, this is my,
14:36this is what I see people. They talk about supply, but they never talk about demand. So in a, in a
14:41market where you have unlimited supply coming into the marketplace with no demand, then inventory
14:46could skyrocket. Uh, COVID was a really good example. Uh, you, we had the highest death rates
14:52of baby boomers in recent history because of the, the, it, it took, uh, uh, elderly people higher
14:57inventory fell. Like if you ever wanted to test case that, you know, uh, uh, immigration was down
15:06because nobody could travel and the baby boomers died in a higher fashion inventory fell because the
15:12supply and demand equilibrium works with itself. Now I would say that the supply and demand
15:16equilibrium is the really nerdy part. And it's not the sexy fun part to talk about. We talk about
15:21it in the tracker all the time. We have multiple data line sets to talk about this, but the death
15:25theory is that you're going to get a, a, an abnormal amount of people flooding a market.
15:31And I would just say that there was only one time in history that we saw a flood. And that was like
15:362005, the inventory data peaked at two and a half millions. And then 2006 and seven inventory
15:42went vertical NAR data from two and a half million to 4 million. And then that inventory
15:47actually started to fall down on the active side. So it's the, it's a supply and demand
15:51equilibrium. Are we going to have enough mortgage buyers, you know, from 2035 and on to handle
15:56the death theory. So that is something that we'll take on in 20, in the next decade. But I just,
16:04I just don't think a man sits to his wife and says, honey, if we wait 15 years,
16:10then, you know, all the baby boomers are going to die and we can get a deal.
16:14That's not how it operates. That's not how men are. Stock traders might think this way. Oh,
16:19yeah, let's just wait for, but it's just, we have to live in the current present day
16:23and not have all these hypothetical theories. Cause we did, we, we, we ran it. It's 2015. It's,
16:28it's, it's going to be the end of 2025. This was supposed to be the, the, the last year of the
16:32great baby boomer silver tsunami thing. And it just didn't happen. Right. So death is a better
16:38theory than the downsizing one. So let's talk about some of the things that you look at when you,
16:44you know, as part of your model or when you're looking at trends, how much does rent or, you
16:49know, the price of rent, rent inflation, how much do you look at that when you're thinking about the
16:53housing market? When I think of rents, I just think of CPI inflation, right? Like the history of,
16:58history of rents, it's very rare to have a decline because it's, it's, most people are always
17:05working. So most people pay rent. The growth rate of rent, of course, really accelerated during COVID.
17:10That's how many times we talk about this, the history of global pandemics, very inflationary
17:15and then the disinflation happens. But in general terms, I think a lot of confusion is this whole
17:20buy versus rent thing. I just, millions of people buy homes because homeowners tend to make more money
17:25and they tend to want to own something and start their lives with it. Where a renter financially isn't
17:30as, doesn't have the income and assets as a home buyer does. So they rent for a prolonged period
17:36of time. But I, I've never quite liked that debate because you could get into crazy land very fast.
17:43And you have people that are saying like, you know, you should always rent, you should never
17:48own a house. And it's usually middle-aged guys who don't have any kids who say this. So I think
17:53that's just not, I mean, it's the same skit I've said since what, 2013. People rent, they date,
17:59they mate, they get married three and a half years after marriage. They have kids. Typically
18:02they buy single family homes. They tend to own products and that's decades and decades and
18:06decades. So I like to check the rent for inflation or disinflation. But in general terms, I don't
18:13really talk about like the rent versus buy things. I just don't think that matters as much as people
18:17think. Okay. We are getting to the end of 2025. That means everybody's starting to ask for your
18:23forecast. When do you do your yearly forecast? I always do my yearly forecast at the very end.
18:27Cause I don't know how y'all people do forecast like two months before the years ended, you know,
18:31because so much could change, right? Last year was a good example. Last year, a lot of people had
18:36rates being lower, but then the 10 year yield had went up and mortgage rates went up right before
18:41the year started. So I always do it at the end because I like to take every possible variable
18:47and what could possibly happen in the next year and go with that. Because even a 12 month forecast,
18:53you're prone to what shocks can happen. But some people like forecast two, three, four years out.
18:57I just like, how's that even possible? But I always wait till the very last day or even the first day
19:03of the year, and then just give everyone the full enchilada, right? The 10 year yield, 30 year mortgage
19:09rate, inventory data, what the economy is doing. And we try to put it all together. But again, a forecast
19:14is useless without a live tracking model. If there's one thing I always want to say, any human being
19:20could say a forecast, nothing prevents them. If they can speak, they can do it. But the live model
19:26of tracking, that's why we created the tracker. That's why we wanted people to be, because if
19:31something changes, you want to be ahead of the curve. And I think 2025 is another good example of
19:37that. The housing market shifted mid-June. And we say, it's going to take three to six months for
19:41people to figure that out. It took three to six months. It happened in 2024 and it happened in late
19:442022. So we put our cards on the table. We challenge any American to put theirs. And that's the love.
19:52That's the fight that I have. We are not afraid of anybody. We think live debating is the best way
19:58to go, but you're going to have to show your cards. And 99.9% of the people don't show their cards
20:02because they have done. Across the industry. So as housing professionals, so listening to this
20:08podcast, there are people who are in mortgage, real estate, you know, title, appraisal, they're
20:13home builders, they're in DC, right? In some way, they're a part of the housing ecosystem. And the
20:20number one thing they want to know about, understandably, is mortgage rates. And so I'm
20:25always on this podcast going like trying to push you to be really specific about rates. And generally
20:31speaking, you're not going to do that because you really want to talk about channels with the 10-year
20:35yield and mortgage rates. But if I was going to press you right now for 2026, maybe you can tell
20:43us like what you said at the housing, at the mortgage banking summit that we had, or what you're
20:48thinking right now about 2026 mortgage rates. So 2025, 10-year yield forecast 4.7 to 3.80. Mortgage rates
20:575.75 and 7.25. I forecasted a 27 to 41 basis points of improvement on the spreads.
21:04It's very similar to what happened in 2024. The range for the most part stuck. But the difference
21:11in 2026, and when I have my forecast, I'll explain it even in more details, Fed policy is
21:17much easier now than what it was in 2023 and 2024. We also have the labor market that is structurally
21:25getting softer. Those two variables mean that when you go into 2026, the two variables that
21:32you did not have in 2024 and 2023 are here. That means you have a more dovish Fed and you have a
21:39labor market that's softer, whereas 2023 and 2024 wasn't the case. So when you go into 2026, and we'll
21:47get into more specifics, there's a better chance for mortgage rates to be lower for a longer period of
21:53time. And you're going to have the sub 6% mortgage market where arms are going to have that ability.
21:59We didn't have that the last two years. So again, we track things live because economic data could
22:06change. Things could change. I mean, we might not have tariffs anymore, right? That's going to be a big
22:10change. But I don't believe in targeting mortgage rates. I believe I target the 10-year yield
22:16because the slow dance, Sarah Wheeler, right? The slow dance and then the spreads, right? And the
22:22story of 2025 for mortgage rates. Without better spreads, none of this would have happened. We would
22:27have had a lot less time under 6.64% mortgage rates. Okay. You are sort of the master right now
22:34of AI videos. It's pretty scary. So tell me why do you spend time creating AI videos? I know that
22:43every single day you challenge yourself to do something with AI. I know that looking at charts
22:48is boring. People who followed me in the last decade, all I do is I kept on posting up every
22:54economic chart I possibly can on Facebook and Twitter. I just did that all. Because you love
22:58charts. I love charts. I'm reading a story. I'm reading a live dance. Because now I work for Housing
23:07Wire and you want to generate more attention. Once the AI thing came in, I'm trying to be
23:13funny. And I'm trying to use humor to get people in to then, you know, understand what it is. So I
23:20think with the AI stuff, you know, and having this head of hair and, you know, my acting background,
23:25I can use it to be entertaining enough to try to teach people. And I think that's why I try to use
23:32AI. Like I'll make funny stuff of it. And I'm just in this infancy, right? I'm not a tech person
23:37whatsoever. But I'm just, I've got to put one AI video a day and I don't care how lame it is.
23:43You perfect yourself every single day and you get better and better. And because my job is to tell
23:47the story of economics and how our tracking model works and everything like that. Because I never
23:53leave. I don't sleep. I don't do anything. I don't care about my forecast as much as I care about my
23:58model. So it's just another way of me telling a story that's a little bit more entertaining. And for
24:03anybody who knows the nerd tour or seeing me live, our live events are a lot of fun. And it's a lot
24:10different than other economists because I feel like that way you can understand better.
24:14Okay. So this is a question a lot of people ask you and they've asked me about you. Do you have
24:19someone who does your social media that helps you with social media? Absolutely not. I would
24:24never, ever, ever let anyone because like somebody wouldn't be, you wouldn't be able to answer
24:32a question right. Like how, how are you supposed to do this? So because of that, it's 24 seven. Like
24:40I'll put up, I'll put a Japanese 10 year yield bond charts. I like at one 30 in the morning. So,
24:47I mean, just, just for me, I just, I just cannot have like somebody take over and then give a wrong
24:52answer. And then just like somebody who's going to go, Oh my God, look, this guy didn't even know
24:56the basic things out there. So no. So it's all, it's always going to be 24 seven here, which,
25:01you know that's been the story of my life really for 14 years, not, not a problem whatsoever.
25:08I'm just going to note here because I think that people who you know, they know you online and you
25:12have this persona. One thing that people may not know about you is how incredibly disciplined you
25:17are. And, and like, this is just part of your, that 24 seven, all of that. Like you're, you're one of
25:25the most disciplined people I know, as far as like working out, eating and, you know, you're just,
25:31your fitness plan, all that kind of stuff. We're talking decades of the same sort of plan year
25:36over year.
25:36I couldn't do this if my health wasn't like this, especially at age 50. So the way I train,
25:45the way I eat, you know I don't drink. I'm not a party guy. I try, I try to get as much sleep as
25:52I can, even though that's, that's rare, but, uh, uh, being healthy and fit and having the energy
25:58is one of the biggest variables on my success because you got to bring it 24 seven and anybody
26:04who knows me, I 24 seven, that's just the, the, the unmatched energy and enthusiasm.
26:10Uh, but you can't do that if you're, if you're, if you're not in shape and you're sick all the time.
26:15So, yeah, so it's, it's, it's always been a huge part of my life since the night, 1990s for any of
26:20you that were bodybuilding, uh, uh, uh, people in the 1990s, I did a bodybuilding contest for EAS,
26:29Michael Phillips, you know, the very first context they did, but I was already in shape and I got in
26:38better shape. So they came to me and said, Hey, do you want to be a coach that we're going to do a
26:42whole new fitness, uh, uh, thing for next year. We're going to, we're going to challenge people
26:46who are already in shape to get even better shape. I'm like, no, that's not for me, but I just wanted
26:51to do this. So yeah, I, my, my, my eating habits, people like, I don't, I don't really eat food
26:56throughout the day. And then I just have a protein shake at dinner night. So it's, it's a bit strange
27:01for everyone, but I just, it's, it's all part of the enchilada product, right? You know, you gotta,
27:07you gotta strong mind, strong body want to win all the time. You know, you gotta,
27:12be, uh, in shape for that. Love it. Just, uh, okay. Very last question. Your hair. How many
27:18questions that, what percentage of questions do you get every week about your hair? There's always
27:24a hair question. I always dance. This is just, it's, it's genetics, man. I tell you, I used to
27:29keep my hair short all the time because I didn't want to deal with this drama, but you know, marketing
27:34people like big hair, you know, and stuff. So, um, yeah, grandpa, it's funny because my brother,
27:40my younger brother was balding in his thirties. So was my dad. So I got all the good genetics.
27:47My, my grandpa on my mother's side had a full head of hair the day he died. Uh, so there's
27:52really not, I'm sure the healthy eating and all that stuff helps out, but yeah, the hair
27:58is just, I just, I lately just last few years, I just let it grow out and have fun with it.
28:03But, uh, you do have fun with that. I would say I get so many questions about your hair, even
28:07when you're not there, people talk to me about your hair, which I think is hilarious. So good
28:12call on growing it out, making it a part of your, uh, persona. Yes. Yes. I, uh, what, what the,
28:19the very last thing I would leave you with my acting background and learning from acting school
28:25was probably very educational on how to do everything on social media, go on TV and all this
28:31stuff. And I, I laugh about it because I remember all the things they taught me. And I was like,
28:35this really helps this tell the economic story out there. So it's huge. I mean, like most, you know,
28:41any journalist who has that broadcast, uh, education background is that's so, uh, impactful for them.
28:48Well, you did that. You just did it in a different way. You didn't do it in a different way. Yeah.
28:52You did the acting class. So, well, Logan, thank you so much. I appreciate, uh, being your podcast
28:58partner in crime. We have so much fun and thanks for doing this unplugged. So we can see a little
29:03bit behind the scenes here, a little bit behind the scenes. And it has been so much fun with you
29:08for the last five years. There's nobody else. I would rather do this dance with than you.
29:12Awesome. All right. We, we, we will talk to you again soon when it is not a black Friday.
29:17Okay.
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