- 2 days ago
Despite a successful career in which he won 1,871 races, jockey Trevor McCarthy announced his retirement in April. He admitted that he was “miserable” and that the many problems that come with being a jockey, especially one who is 5 feet, 9 inches tall, had caused him serious mental health problems. He now works for HISA as a jockey wellness consultant, and appears on the Writers' Room podcast to discuss his new role.
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SportsTranscript
00:00:00Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room podcast presented by Keeneland.
00:00:22My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:23I'm a correspondent for the TDN and the co-host of the Down the Stretch radio show on SiriusXM.
00:00:28I'd like to wish everybody a happy Thanksgiving.
00:00:30Yeah, happy Turkey Day, everyone.
00:00:32I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports and the Byers Speed Figure team.
00:00:36Zoe Cabman with First Racing and First TV.
00:00:39Happy Thanksgiving to one and all.
00:00:40It seems magical that Lucy just manages to position herself in camera every single time.
00:00:47I had a question for Randy before we got started.
00:00:49I just wanted to know if he'd called James McDonald and congratulated him on such a brilliant ride on Romantic Warrior.
00:00:57Just a couple of days ago.
00:00:59I didn't watch the race.
00:01:00Tell us about it.
00:01:02Tell us about it.
00:01:03He was absolutely sensational.
00:01:06He sat in the pocket.
00:01:08He tipped out.
00:01:09And Romantic Warrior just went away and won like a good thing.
00:01:14He's just absolutely an amazing horse.
00:01:18To come off a layoff since April.
00:01:19He's had surgery.
00:01:20To come off surgery, yeah.
00:01:21Yeah, post-surgery, he won going away by an easy couple of lengths.
00:01:26And then earlier on in the card, you had the grade two sprint as well, Kai Ying Rising.
00:01:30Did he win again?
00:01:32He won by three in a gallop.
00:01:35Like after taking the Everest in the way he took the Everest, he is the fastest horse in training.
00:01:40He could have absolutely shattered his course record.
00:01:43He went 107.33, and I think the track record is 23, and he finished across the line in a gallop.
00:01:52Two brilliant horses.
00:01:53I can't believe you didn't watch.
00:01:55You need to call James McDonald.
00:01:57I can't believe.
00:01:57Well, no, he's obviously one of the best jockeys in the world, right?
00:02:01I mean, he's a legend in Australia.
00:02:02But the ride on Romantic Warrior in the Saudi Cup did not make him look like one of the best jockeys in the world.
00:02:11Put it that way.
00:02:12Look, I'm excited that Romantic Warrior has come back to win.
00:02:15He's got one more race to go now in Hong Kong, but mainly because of the rematch possibilities in the Saudi Cup in February, back with Forever Young again.
00:02:24Look at Bill.
00:02:25Bill can't wait for the Saudi Cup.
00:02:27Look at him.
00:02:27Look at him.
00:02:28Oh, yeah.
00:02:28He can't wait for us to stop talking about war and racing.
00:02:31All right.
00:02:33All right, everybody.
00:02:34Well, you know, I think, you know, somebody said, why do you guys keep talking about Dale Romans week after week after week?
00:02:39You just had him on as a guest in the podcast.
00:02:42But I find this a fascinating story, and I really do think that racing people, you know, want to know the latest details.
00:02:50So if you're getting a little Dale Romans fatigue, well, get over it because this is a great story.
00:02:55And things have happened since we last talked about him.
00:02:59Number one was that he announced that in his first week of his official campaign, he's raised $750,000.
00:03:07But the thing that most impressed me was, and I was amazed by this, James Carville, who everybody knows, he's a big figure in the Democratic Party.
00:03:15Also, by the way, he's a horse player, which I'm sure is the reason why he was aware of Dale Romans.
00:03:21I think a lot of people in, you know, politics didn't really honestly wouldn't know who the guy was.
00:03:26But anyways, he came out with the most amazing endorsement of him.
00:03:31And this is from a big deal.
00:03:33I mean, this guy is one of the voices of the Democratic Party.
00:03:35And among the things he said, he says, Kentucky's about to surprise the hell out of the country now that we've got a Democrat who can win.
00:03:43Here's another quote.
00:03:44Now Dale's running his biggest race yet for the U.S. Senate.
00:03:48I haven't been this excited in years.
00:03:51And then he said the following.
00:03:52He's an independent Democrat who's not looking to make headlines.
00:03:56He's looking to shovel up the, excuse my French, bullshit and actually fit what's broken.
00:04:02So, have we underestimated him?
00:04:04Does he really have a chance to do this?
00:04:05I think he does.
00:04:07I mean, you're the naysayer.
00:04:10Like, this is all on you.
00:04:12I think he's got a great shot.
00:04:14I mean, I'm not the biggest political pundit in the world, but why not?
00:04:20Why not?
00:04:21I mean, he's gone out on a limb.
00:04:23He's going to have a big following now.
00:04:25I mean, $750,000, I hate to say it, but it doesn't seem like a whole lot of money.
00:04:30You're going to need a little bit more than that, at least.
00:04:33Maybe he could get some Rapoli or some Jon Stewart money in there.
00:04:37He might need some of that or even some Godolphin money.
00:04:39I mean, the people, the big guys in the sport, because you know that Dale is going to do what's right for horse racing every single step of the way.
00:04:49The biggest players in the sport should be donating, and I'm sure they already have.
00:04:54I'm sure they already have, but maybe just a little bit more to the Dale Romans fund.
00:04:59Yeah.
00:05:00Carville is best known, of course, as the mastermind for Bill Clinton's successful campaign for president.
00:05:06He's the one that came up with the, it's the economy stupid line that was used to such great effect.
00:05:15And he is a huge racing fan.
00:05:18I've been on his podcast before talking about nothing but horse racing, big time racing fan.
00:05:23And whether your political alignment is moderate or extremely conservative or liberal or extremely liberal, you've got to respect Carville for the fact that he's just such a straight shooter.
00:05:40He will always tell you what he thinks.
00:05:42You may not agree with it or not, but he will tell you where he comes down in no uncertain terms and in a very entertaining way.
00:05:51He doesn't give a crap what people think about what he says or the way he says it.
00:05:57And he carries weight.
00:05:59He definitely carries weight with those in the Democratic Party.
00:06:02So I agree with Bill that having Carville come out to support Dale Romans in his candidacy is a very helpful thing.
00:06:10Now, whether he can overcome the Trump plus 32 factor in Kentucky, political pundits might be a little skeptical, but we'll see.
00:06:19Yeah, we'll keep an eye on that.
00:06:22So a lot of jockeys in the news, particularly I've been following Paco Lopez.
00:06:26I mean, it's very controversial, the suspension that Haise gave to him.
00:06:30But he's back riding now in Louisiana.
00:06:33The reason why he can ride in Louisiana is because because of various court rulings.
00:06:37It's not covered by Haise.
00:06:39So they don't have to abide by the Haise suspensions.
00:06:42And no surprise, he got off to a great start.
00:06:46The first three days of the meet have been run so far.
00:06:49We're recording this on Monday.
00:06:51And he's got seven winners already.
00:06:53He had two days that he won three races.
00:06:56He is in first place in the jockey standings.
00:06:59I know it's early with seven wins.
00:07:02But Randy, can he actually beat Jose Ortiz with the riding title?
00:07:06Jose is still at Churchill, but he'll be coming to fairgrounds.
00:07:09And he was the king there last year.
00:07:12Oh, yeah.
00:07:12But I think Paco's in with a pretty good shot.
00:07:15I really do.
00:07:16I mean, obviously, without Jose there, there are some mounts that are open to Paco that
00:07:22might not be open to him when Jose moves full time.
00:07:26But he was on some really live horses Thursday, Friday, and Saturday at fairgrounds.
00:07:33He rode six favorites in the three days, four winners and a second among those six favorites.
00:07:38He looked really good, put horses in the right spot.
00:07:42And look, he was having a career year before all the controversy and before the suspension
00:07:47and before he was forced to reroute his career to Louisiana.
00:07:52Even with the time that he missed, right now in races one nationally,
00:07:57I read Ortiz, who has won the last eight years, the races one title in America, has 312 wins.
00:08:05Paco, after this weekend at fairgrounds, has 311.
00:08:10So that's going to be a pretty interesting race to watch also all the way down to the line.
00:08:15Yeah, he's definitely within a shot.
00:08:17And yes, the big guys aren't there yet.
00:08:19Jose Ortiz, there's a few other guys that will be coming down to the fairgrounds.
00:08:23And the bigger trainers don't have their full barns there.
00:08:26Four of his seven wins have come for trainer Joe Sharp, who has set off.
00:08:31He's leading trainer down there, so he's hooked up with Paco.
00:08:35And then you have to think that a lot of these Louisiana horsemen that are coming in from Louisiana
00:08:41that is not a his estate for the other jurisdictions, they're going to side with Paco
00:08:48because of his discretions with Heiser.
00:08:52I have a feeling that he's going to get a big following from the local Louisiana trainers
00:08:56that are going to use him.
00:08:57And we all know that Paco will ride anything.
00:09:00He will ride absolutely anything and give it his all.
00:09:03So while Jose Ortiz is probably going to be riding the higher echelon of horses there,
00:09:10pretty much at least half of the card, maybe 40% of the card are made up Louisiana-bred races
00:09:18with those horses coming in from Evangeline and places like that.
00:09:22Paco's going to ride the bulk of those.
00:09:24Jose might not ride all of those, so he's in with a very, very good shot indeed.
00:09:30Yeah, I was wondering, too, if this might change the course of his career, ultimately,
00:09:34that, you know, right now he'd normally be at Gulfstream and go to Monmouth.
00:09:38If he's that successful at the fairgrounds, perhaps he would think of being a permanent rider
00:09:44down on that circuit and riding in Kentucky as well, which would be a lot tougher.
00:09:49He wouldn't dominate, obviously, there like he does at Monmouth every year.
00:09:52He's never leaving Monmouth.
00:09:54We'll see.
00:09:55Don't give him a chance and see what he does.
00:09:59All right.
00:10:00So talk about hot jockeys.
00:10:02How about what's going on with Flavian Pratt in New York right now?
00:10:06And I mean, these are just ridiculous numbers.
00:10:09Right now at Aqueduct.
00:10:12And remember, he's not riding mainly on the Saturdays because he'll go like he is this
00:10:18weekend to Churchill to ride, but he is going to ride the entire winter at Aqueduct, which
00:10:24was a big surprise, a jockey of his caliber.
00:10:26Right now, he's 31 for 81, 38 percent winners.
00:10:30Manny Franco was second with 14.
00:10:32He won five races on Sunday, as we speak, the last day of racing that we've had in New
00:10:38York, including two stakes.
00:10:40And remember, on November 2nd, he set a Naira record winning seven races.
00:10:44You know, so, Randy, what's going on here?
00:10:47That's an easy question to answer.
00:10:49He's a great jockey.
00:10:50And admittedly, the Naira riding colony without the Ortiz brothers and Luis Saez is not really
00:10:57at its height right now, but, you know, he's posting numbers that you just don't, at least
00:11:02in New York, you just don't ever see.
00:11:05Yeah, I don't think you'd get many arguments if you say that the two, you know, most successful
00:11:10jockeys in America are Ired Ortiz and Flavien Pratt.
00:11:13I mean, that's just the way it works.
00:11:15And what's interesting right now is the battle for the Eclipse Award, okay?
00:11:21I think too many people who have votes for the Eclipse Award will look at the champion
00:11:27jockey race, and they'll just look at the earnings list, and they'll take whoever comes
00:11:32out first in earnings, and not even think twice about it, and say, okay, here's your
00:11:37champion jockey, right?
00:11:38And Ired Ortiz has won it, I think, five or six times already.
00:11:42I think in this case, that might be a mistake.
00:11:45I mean, right now, in money one, it's extremely close.
00:11:49Flavien has 37.5 million, Ired has 37.3 million, but even if Ired overtakes him before the end
00:11:58of the year, if you dig a little deeper, right now as we speak, Flavien has ridden 330 fewer
00:12:07mounts than Ired.
00:12:10He's averaging $32,000 per mount in earnings, Ired's averaging 25,000, Flavien's won 41 graded
00:12:18stakes races, Ired's won 32.
00:12:21So in those metrics, I think it's more significant, really, than just looking at whoever's going
00:12:26to end the year with the most gross earnings.
00:12:29I think Flavien's had the better year.
00:12:31I should have known Randy would steal my $32,000 per start.
00:12:37Ired, $25,000.
00:12:38Why did I even bother with that?
00:12:40He's been staring at his keyboard for the last hour going down some rabbit hole.
00:12:44You know, it's funny, at the beginning of the year, a lot of people were talking about
00:12:50Jose Ortiz putting his hat in for an Eclipse Award.
00:12:54I'm not quite sure about his graded stat stakes.
00:12:58Randy, are you?
00:13:00Go ahead.
00:13:01Keep talking.
00:13:02Keep talking.
00:13:02And I can tell you.
00:13:04He was firmly throwing his hat in for an Eclipse Award.
00:13:07Trust me, he's had an excellent year.
00:13:09How do you think he feels, Bill?
00:13:12You know, he moved down to the fairgrounds, had a stellar winter there.
00:13:16He'd already announced he was moving his tack to Kentucky, and he was like the leading
00:13:20rider at Churchill.
00:13:21And here comes brother Ired, just following him in and stealing his thunder.
00:13:27And now he's moved his tack to Kentucky.
00:13:29How do you think he feels about that?
00:13:31Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
00:13:33You know, can't read his mind, but, you know, it's amazing because he is certainly one of
00:13:38the top five jockeys in the country, maybe even number three behind Ired and Flavian.
00:13:43But he isn't always in his brother's shadow.
00:13:45He has been throughout most of his career.
00:13:47But I'm not going to shed any tears for him.
00:13:50He's making a lot more money than we are.
00:13:52How about his agent?
00:13:53To answer Zoe's question, all right, graded stakes wins so far in 2025.
00:13:57Flavian, Pratt, 41.
00:13:58Ired, 32.
00:14:00Jose, 25.
00:14:02OK.
00:14:02And tied for fourth are Johnny V and Juan Hernandez, each with 24.
00:14:08What about grade one wins?
00:14:10Don't know.
00:14:11OK.
00:14:12So Zoe, back to the question that Randy brought up.
00:14:15We still have a month to go, and that could change things, a month and a few days.
00:14:19But if the year were to end today, I would vote for Flavian Pratt for the Eclipse Award.
00:14:25How about you?
00:14:26He's going to win a lot more races the rate he's going at Aqueduct.
00:14:31And he's won 38 races since the day after Breeders' Cup.
00:14:34And you talked about that winning seven of ten.
00:14:37People forget.
00:14:38That was after flying across the country the day after Breeders' Cup.
00:14:42We're talking about the Sunday after Breeders' Cup.
00:14:45So that's a lot of travel.
00:14:46You're coming down off a big high, winning those races Breeders' Cup day.
00:14:50You get to Aqueduct.
00:14:52It may be cold, a little bit dreary.
00:14:54And here he goes.
00:14:55He wins seven races right off the bat.
00:14:57He's basically going to dominate there, much like he did in Southern California.
00:15:02And he probably should.
00:15:05And good for him.
00:15:06That rabbit hole, Zoe, that I was going down when you were talking about that I was so focused on.
00:15:10I don't think I-Rad gets enough credit for this.
00:15:14When I was looking at the races one standings this year between I-Rad and Paco, 312 to 311, I thought, wow.
00:15:22I wonder how I-Rad does typically in races one.
00:15:25He's the leading jockey in America in races one in 2024, 23, 22, 21, 20, 19, 18, 17.
00:15:36Unbelievable.
00:15:38Eight times.
00:15:39Only Russell Bays has been America's leading jockey in races one in more years than I-Rad Ortiz.
00:15:46Russell did it 13 times.
00:15:48And people don't really look at that much anymore.
00:15:51Trainers or jockeys in overall races one used to be a lot more common back in the day.
00:15:57That was a lot bigger deal than it is now.
00:15:59But my gosh, I-Rad rides a lot of horses.
00:16:02He's ridden more horses this year, 1,479 than any other rider in America.
00:16:08And he certainly wins more than his share.
00:16:11Especially when you consider the circuit he's riding on.
00:16:14And we're not just talking you're winning at a B, C circuit.
00:16:17Russell Bays was great, but there was no competition for Russell Bays.
00:16:21He's riding the best horses at the best tracks in North America.
00:16:25It's truly amazing.
00:16:27And just one more thing to keep in mind when we talk, Randy, about who will be the leading jockey this year in the number of wins.
00:16:33Paco missed, what, a month and a half?
00:16:35Maybe two months?
00:16:36Because of the Heise's suspension before, you know, he made what has turned out to be the very wise decision to move his tack to Louisiana.
00:16:46Yeah.
00:16:47So, I mean, that should be a little asterisk there.
00:16:49I mean, he clearly could have had more mounts and more wins were it not for that situation.
00:16:54All right.
00:16:55So, interesting jockey news.
00:16:57And we'll keep following the Pratt versus IRAD battle as we end up the year.
00:17:04But right now, we're going to take a break and we're going to hear from Keeneland.
00:17:08The TDN Rice's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:17:11As Keeneland's record-breaking 2025 comes to a close, it's time to look ahead to 2026.
00:17:18And that kicks off right after Christmas in the January sale.
00:17:21The two-day Keeneland January of Horses of All Age sale is a trusted marketplace where breeders and owners launch the new year with confidence.
00:17:31Strategically timed at the start of the season, the sale provides an ideal platform to showcase broodmares, broodmare prospects, short yearlings, and racehorses to a global audience of buyers.
00:17:43It's a perfect opportunity to set the stage for success in the year ahead.
00:17:47Sale begins on Monday, January the 12th.
00:17:50We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:17:54We do this so your granddaughter can work on a farm someday.
00:17:59So the stands will still be packed in 50 years.
00:18:03That's why we come to work every day.
00:18:06Obsess over every single detail.
00:18:11Because the story of racing is written one moment at a time.
00:18:15And the future of our industry deserves nothing less.
00:18:20Keeneland.
00:18:21Every moment matters.
00:18:22The fastest horse of the week is always brought to you by the fast sires at Windstar Farm.
00:18:28This week, the spotlight again is on Life is Good, the fastest of all the fast sons of Into Mischief at Stud.
00:18:36Nine triple-digit buyer speed figures during Life is Good's racing career, including a 112 buyer.
00:18:42He won four grade one stakes, including the Breeders' Cup third mile.
00:18:45Won his debut as a two-year-old, so he was precocious as a stallion.
00:18:50Life is good.
00:18:51In his first two books, bred 379 mares.
00:18:56Of those, 104 were either graded stakes winners or producers.
00:19:0134 of them were grade one winners or producers.
00:19:05You can watch for the first two-year-olds from Life is Good in 2026.
00:19:11And again, he stands, Windstar Farm, fastest horse of the week.
00:19:15Ran on Thursday at Aqueduct in an optional $100,000 claiming race.
00:19:21His name, Full Screen.
00:19:24Back at the Saratoga meet, Full Screen was claimed for $100,000 by owner Sandy Goldfarb and Partners.
00:19:32Transferred to trainer Brad Cox.
00:19:34He's had three starts since then.
00:19:36Thursday was his third, going a mile and an eighth at Aqueduct.
00:19:40He drew off to win by six lengths.
00:19:43Big screen, or Full Screen, had previously run a 99 buyer's speed figure earlier in his career, about a year ago.
00:19:51In fact, but on Thursday, a career-high 100 reached the triple digits.
00:19:55And that makes Full Screen our fastest horse of the week.
00:19:58Welcome in now to Gainesway Guest of the Weekend's retired jockey, Trevor McCarthy, who was in the news the other day when Heise announced that he has become their jockey wellness consultant.
00:20:14Trevor has been very open about his struggles as a jockey, and we welcome him to the podcast now.
00:20:22But, Trevor, I want to ask you, back in April, what was going on in your life, and why did you decide to retire at that time?
00:20:30So, I decided to retire because I kind of had some really God experiences, and I'm not very religious, but was raised Catholic.
00:20:39And that week up to retirement was, I had gone to Colonial Downs, and Chaplain Jay, he always comes in the jocks room and does a prayer time.
00:20:52And after the prayer, he came up to me and said, hey, I just want you to know that God has reached out to me about you,
00:20:59and he wants you to know that I'm here and that God is here for you, and that, you know, he feels that you're struggling.
00:21:07And that was a pretty hard pill to swallow.
00:21:12As just a few nights before that, I had been in a hotel at Colonial, and I had prayed to God that, you know,
00:21:20to show me some signs of whether I should continue to keep riding or not.
00:21:23So, that was one.
00:21:25And then I went home to Saratoga for a couple days, and I was in the hospital.
00:21:30I had a panic attack.
00:21:31Got out of the hospital at 12 o'clock at night and jumped on a plane at 5.30 in the morning to go back down to Colonial.
00:21:42And I rode for a couple days and then had a therapy session before that evening at Colonial.
00:21:50And I was speaking to a gentleman named Michael Bingaman, who I talked to him about 10 months before that.
00:21:58During the Zoom meeting, he had called me during that Zoom meeting, and we had talked 10 months before that and never heard from him again.
00:22:07And he had reached out that day and said, hey, I saw your name in my contact list, and I felt that I should reach out to you.
00:22:16I'm thinking of you.
00:22:18I hope everything's okay.
00:22:19And once he had, he was like kind of the third strike.
00:22:23And I was just kind of like, you know what, this is it.
00:22:26And I had said to my therapist, I just got this text.
00:22:28And she said, you shouldn't make any split decisions.
00:22:31You shouldn't just say that you're going to retire.
00:22:33And I said, you know what, I've been saying it for too long.
00:22:37It's time.
00:22:39And this is what I'm going to do.
00:22:40And I never felt so right about a decision in my entire life.
00:22:44And I drove back home.
00:22:46It usually takes me eight hours to get back to Saratoga.
00:22:49It took me 10.
00:22:51And it took me down all these backcountry roads, like thinking roads.
00:22:54And it was really cool.
00:22:56Michael Bingaman stayed on the phone with me for two and a half hours and talked to me the whole way, almost the whole, not the whole way, but part of the way home and just made sure I was okay.
00:23:07And it's just, it was just really, you know, kind of something that it was just like, okay, that's it.
00:23:14It's enough.
00:23:15And I don't want to go back.
00:23:16I just want to keep moving forward.
00:23:17So.
00:23:18So now you are a jockey wellness consultant.
00:23:21So tell us in your view, what exactly does a jockey wellness consultant do?
00:23:29So what I've been working on is building resources for jockeys to have that improves wellness for them.
00:23:36So, so far we have built the on-rise or we have teamed up with on-rise program through the therapy and psychiatrist program that we have with them.
00:23:44Um, and we have tied in a nutritionist just recently, a couple of weeks ago to help with the jockeys as well.
00:23:50Um, and come first of the year, starting January 1st, we're going to have a career counselor as well for jockeys.
00:23:56Um, and what we're kind of working on, Jeff Johnson and I, who also works at Heisa with, uh, safety check.
00:24:04Um, we're working on a second career program for jockeys, um, where if any jockeys feel kind of stuck in any way, um, that they're going to be able to do, um, you know, have another career outside of racing or even in the industry, uh, whatever, whatever they might choose.
00:24:21Um, but we want to kind of come up with a bunch of options for jockeys to, um, you know, have connections and say, Hey, look, we know, um, let's just say Mike Rapoli, for instance, you know, Mike Rapoli, he's in the, uh, beverage industry and, you know, Michael has, uh, been kind enough to take on jockeys, um, and help them set them up for a second career, maybe working for his company or, or maybe other companies that he has and, and knows connections or has connections with.
00:24:51Trevor, I just want to take you back to some of your answers from the first question that we had with you.
00:24:58Cause it seems like you're in a happy place when you started talking about, I made the decision right away that day you were smiling and it just seemed that this was the thing that, like you said, you'd been thinking about for the last year.
00:25:12Um, talk to me about that moment.
00:25:14And then we're going to talk about the elephant in the room after that, that a lot of people after hearing you will be like, well, you should have a lot of people.
00:25:21You shouldn't be a jockey anyway.
00:25:22He's too tall.
00:25:24Obviously your height, your weight, all the tolls that go into be a jockey.
00:25:30That's one, but obviously there's a few other mental issues that, that come to play as well.
00:25:36Yeah.
00:25:36For me, like I tell people, it was really a perfect storm because, um, you know, I was struggling at the time.
00:25:41I was dealing with a low in my career and, you know, the ups and downs were always a struggle of mine.
00:25:47Um, weight was another struggle.
00:25:49Um, so dealing with the weight being five, nine and staying at 115 pounds was always a struggle day in and day out.
00:25:57Um, and the other struggle was injuries.
00:26:00Uh, I've had some pretty bad injuries and, uh, you know, one of them didn't heal right.
00:26:03And I had to go back and get a second surgery on and, uh, I rode like that for 12 years.
00:26:09So just to wear and tear on the body as well of just, you know, riding day in and day out and, um, and burnout, you know, and, and I wasn't able to, you know, really.
00:26:20I, when I went home, I wasn't able to turn it off because I never could turn it off.
00:26:24I was constantly working.
00:26:25I was constantly thinking about racing, constantly thinking about my weight.
00:26:30Um, so it was very hard to kind of turn off and get away from it when I needed to.
00:26:35Um, so yeah, for, for me, it was just kind of that perfect cycle of, of constant struggles that just made, made it to where I, you know,
00:26:44it was either I was going to get myself healthy and be in a better environment or, um, keep being miserable every day and, and putting my health at very high risk.
00:26:54Do you feel if you'd have been five foot tall, do you feel you would have had some of the same struggles if you didn't have to struggle with your weight?
00:27:03I mean, that's one struggle, but then the mental issues of losing 90% of the time are another one.
00:27:09Um, I mean, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here for people that could be five foot tall and struggling for different, different issues.
00:27:18Yeah, I, again, for, for me, it was that it's just, there was so many things that added up.
00:27:24Maybe if I was five foot tall, um, it might've been a little bit easier, uh, because now with, with the injuries that I had and the wear and tear on my body and the lack of nutrition that I was getting it, my, my body was never recovered.
00:27:38You know, I was, I was never recovering and that was something that I learned to later on, uh, in the last year or two was I need to learn how to recover.
00:27:45And I was a big, and still am a big cold water plunge guy.
00:27:48I have one at my house and, um, I would sometimes do cold water plunge three times a day because I was in so much pain.
00:27:55I would do it first thing in the morning.
00:27:57I would do it before I rode and then I would come home.
00:28:00I would eat dinner and I would do it before I went to bed.
00:28:02Um, because I was just in that much pain and, and when I would really put my body in that shock and, and it would, you know, the cold was always better for me because it just, it would take away the pain.
00:28:13It would numb the pain.
00:28:14Um, so that was the biggest one, but not being able to give it that extra water, um, and my muscles being so tight all the time or the lack of nutrition of just healthy food that can really cure, uh, the way your body feels.
00:28:28And I, and I believe now that the way you're really mind feels, I mean, it takes 1200 calories for your brain to function correctly.
00:28:35And there's no way jockeys are putting in 1200 calories a day.
00:28:39Trevor, in a recent article I did with you, um, you talked about your future and you said you're going into the real estate business.
00:28:46Are you still doing that or is the heist a job, a full-time job?
00:28:49And I want to follow up question with that.
00:28:52And I, I, um, echo what Zoe said.
00:28:55I can just tell from this podcast that you're in a much better place now.
00:29:00Um, you know, you have a smile on your face and everything.
00:29:03Um, uh, you know, how are you doing now?
00:29:05And tell me again about, you know, your future and the, and the real estate, uh, business.
00:29:10So, yeah, so it's, it's really cool.
00:29:12Cause I'm able, there's two things that I'm very passionate about in life now, and that's real estate and, and jockey wellness.
00:29:18Um, so it's really cool that I get to do both of them and be a dad at the same time.
00:29:25Um, and just really, it's just, it's the best of both worlds.
00:29:29Really?
00:29:29It's, it's just, it's great.
00:29:31I can do part-time with my stuff with Heiso.
00:29:33So usually I kind of wake up early in the morning, uh, before my kid is, is wakes up and I work on my jockey wellness stuff.
00:29:41Um, and then I take care of her and then I kind of tag her along through my real estate stuff.
00:29:46Um, and then same thing kind of at nighttime, I get her down, laid down, go to bed.
00:29:51Um, and then I'm able to have a couple more hours on the computer to work on, uh, my Heisa stuff with the jockey wellness.
00:29:57So, um, it's nice that it kind of all fits in that way.
00:30:00And, and with the real estate too, it's, I can be, um, as hands-on as I want to be.
00:30:06Um, I'm not doing any of the labor, which is kind of nice.
00:30:09And it gives me a little bit more free time and flexibility.
00:30:12Um, and I'm not that skilled to begin with, but, um, uh, it's just cool that I'm able to kind of juggle all those and do everything at once.
00:30:21And, um, still really, you know, live a happy and healthy life.
00:30:26When you said that you were two things that you were now most enthusiastic about, I would have bet a lot of money that one of those two things would have been eating.
00:30:34Yeah.
00:30:38I do.
00:30:39I do enjoy my meals now.
00:30:40And, uh, this summer I tried to put on weight and, uh, I was eating three meals a day and it was so hard.
00:30:47It was just like, Oh, I've been dreaming of these days for so long.
00:30:50And now it's, it's a, now it's a new struggle that I thought I'd never have.
00:30:56What did you, what do you weigh now?
00:30:59So I, I had to have a second surgery done on my femur.
00:31:03Um, and I had to get all my rod and screws taken out.
00:31:06Uh, before that I was up to 34 and now I'm back down to like 30.
00:31:11Um, so then come first of the year, I can start working out again.
00:31:14So I'll, I'll start to try and put some weight back on, but, uh, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's been really nice.
00:31:20It's been, it's been good to put good weight on.
00:31:22And that's always what I've dreamed about.
00:31:23I've always talked to trash in the jocks room and said, Oh, I can't wait to be the size of a sumo wrestler when I'm done riding.
00:31:30And, you know, um, but in reality, I always just wanted myself to be healthy.
00:31:34You know, I, I always wanted to be at a healthy weight.
00:31:36I always wanted to look good.
00:31:37And, and, um, you know, for so long I was just skin and bones and, um, it's just, you know, I would sit there in the sauna every day and lose weight and, uh, you know, be surrounded by guys like Louie Saez and Irad Ortiz who are five foot tall.
00:31:50And they're these little bulls and they're got six packs and arms and, and legs like tree trunks.
00:31:56And, um, you know, I had to compete with them every day and it just, it was, you know, it was like, man, I just, I want to be like them.
00:32:02You know, I want to look that good one day.
00:32:07That's awesome.
00:32:08Um, how is being Mr. Mom?
00:32:10I know you're on your way down to Florida right now.
00:32:13I noticed that Katie's riding, uh, she's got a couple of mounts down there.
00:32:18Is, is that what you do as part of your job in the daytime?
00:32:21You're Mr. Mom?
00:32:22Absolutely.
00:32:23So, uh, you know, I, I have her most of the days, um, you know, Katie's racing Thursday through Sunday.
00:32:30And then, uh, now it's going to be Wednesday through Sunday.
00:32:32So I have her most of the time and it's great.
00:32:34I love it.
00:32:36Um, we have so much fun together.
00:32:37I'm able to, you know, get back some lost time that I wasn't able to spend with her when she was a newborn.
00:32:44So it's, it's just been, and it's a great age right now.
00:32:47She's going to be four just before Christmas and it's just, we're just having a blast.
00:32:52And Trevor, uh, there was a very tragic stories in horse racing over the recent years,
00:32:59two young riders, uh, committed suicide, Alex Kancheri and Avery Wissman.
00:33:04Um, I don't know if you rode much against them, but if you knew them, tell me if you did.
00:33:08And how did that affect you?
00:33:09Did that shake you up?
00:33:11Absolutely.
00:33:12I rode with those guys on a regular basis.
00:33:14Uh, Alex, who is from Minnesota and from Canterbury came out to Delaware and rode for a summer and
00:33:21we would go to dinner all the time and hang out and we became good friends.
00:33:25And he had went back home and, you know, that, you know, it was a very unfortunate
00:33:30circumstance and Avery as well.
00:33:33Uh, he started as an apprenticeship in Maryland when I was there and he rode there for a couple
00:33:37of years and, um, I think came down to colonial with me one summer too.
00:33:42And, um, you know, it was kind of just young, a kid.
00:33:45I always tried to, to help and teach and another kid who was tall and struggled with weight and
00:33:50tried to help him out that way as well.
00:33:53And yeah, it was very eyeopening.
00:33:55And unfortunately, once Avery had taken his life, I told my wife, Katie, I said, uh, you
00:34:02know, this is, this is just devastating.
00:34:04And I said, and I think there's going to be one more, I've been one more soon.
00:34:08And she goes, you can't say that.
00:34:09And I said, I understand it's not the right thing to say, but there's so many more guys
00:34:14out there who are dealing with pain that nobody realizes.
00:34:16And sure enough, in a short time of, I think there were maybe a month or two apart, um,
00:34:22Alex had taken his life.
00:34:23So, um, at the time, you know, I just, I, I didn't really care at the time because I
00:34:32was already set in my, in my ways of, you know, not being happy with the way my career
00:34:37was going and really not passionate about riding anymore and was, was going through the
00:34:42ups and downs and the struggles.
00:34:43So I, at the time I just was super open about it because I just, I think I just didn't really
00:34:49care anymore, you know?
00:34:50And I thought it was more important that my friends had passed away and that people need
00:34:54to hear what the true struggles are about jockeys.
00:34:58So I, it was like, I did one podcast or one interview, an article with somebody and, uh,
00:35:04it blew up, right?
00:35:05It was like, I was the only guy that would ever speak about it.
00:35:07And all of a sudden it's just like every podcast, every article, uh, or, or whatever
00:35:13it may be.
00:35:14I mean, I had so many people reaching out and all of a sudden I just found myself being
00:35:18the advocate.
00:35:19Now all of a sudden I'm speaking on symposiums, I'm speaking at panels and, and it's, it's
00:35:24like, wow.
00:35:25And, and then I looked behind me and there's, there's no other guys really speaking up,
00:35:30you know?
00:35:30And I'm just like, wow, this is, it was kind of frustrating at the time.
00:35:34And I was just like, man, I felt like, you know, our brotherhood was kind of split at
00:35:39the moment.
00:35:39And, you know, I had guys that would come up to me and kind of pat me on the back, but
00:35:44wouldn't say much, you know?
00:35:45And I had more of the wives that would come to me and say, Hey, you know, you're doing
00:35:49the right thing.
00:35:50Don't think my husband's not struggling.
00:35:51You know, he might not show it, but don't think he's not, you know?
00:35:54And so I got more of a rapport from the writers wives, but not so much the writers itself,
00:36:01because again, you know, we, we had this, you know, really thing in the jocks room is
00:36:07we have to be tough.
00:36:08We can't, we, you know, we have to be strong.
00:36:10Uh, we can't tell anybody our emotions and our feelings because that's a sign of weakness,
00:36:14you know?
00:36:15So it's, it's, it's just, you know, it's, it's, it's been a great journey for me.
00:36:21I just feel like I've been able to give back so much.
00:36:24Um, and that's why I'm just so happy now to be working with Heisa and, and, and the
00:36:28jockeys go to, to where, you know, we can, we can get a lot of stuff done and, and really
00:36:33make racing and make, you know, a jockey's life way more healthier than, than it used
00:36:37to be.
00:36:39And the reason why so many of your peers didn't come forward, you think is because they felt
00:36:43it would be bad for their career to come forward?
00:36:47Yeah, I think career had a lot to do with it.
00:36:49And, um, you know, I think there, at the, at the time when I came out with it, a lot
00:36:54of rumors were going around that, you know, Trevor's not mentally stable and maybe, you
00:36:59know, we shouldn't be riding them and stuff like that.
00:37:02Um, you know, I had some owners reach out to me that, you know, their trainers were concerned
00:37:07about how I was doing.
00:37:09Um, so maybe it took a little bit of effect on my business, but at the time I didn't really
00:37:14care.
00:37:15You know, I was kind of, you know, kind of over it.
00:37:18I had lost the passion for it.
00:37:20And, and again, I just felt that it was important for me to put my story out there because I
00:37:26had two friends that passed.
00:37:27So, um, but, you know, I, I, I understand why guys didn't show that weakness and, and
00:37:35they were afraid to, to come out, but it's, it's nice to see now that more and more people
00:37:39are talking about it and feel more at ease, um, and are very open about it and, and are
00:37:46willing to really talk to me about it, especially so I can make things better, um, for them.
00:37:51Uh, can I touch quickly on weights?
00:37:55Uh, I know a lot of people have gone backwards and forwards on weights.
00:37:59Obviously you were at five, nine, if you were given an extra couple of pounds, it might've
00:38:04meant the world to you, but just say in a hypothetical world, they say the lowest weight
00:38:09is one 30.
00:38:10Do you not feel that guys that are five, 10, five, 11 will be trying to ride then no matter
00:38:15what the weight you're always going to have bigger people trying to do those weights.
00:38:20What are your thoughts on this?
00:38:22Yeah.
00:38:22So my thought on the weight is, is it definitely should be increased.
00:38:27Uh, I think, you know, we have proven that then some of the biggest races with some of
00:38:32the best horses, they're, they're able to carry 126 pounds.
00:38:37Uh, let's just say at the breeders cup or the Kentucky Derby, some of the biggest races in
00:38:42the world, they're carrying high weight.
00:38:44Um, and there's, there hasn't been any tragic, um, you know, tragedies due to weight, you
00:38:50know, um, in England, obviously, but you know that they're, they're carrying a much heavier
00:38:56weight and, um, you know, their breakdown rate over there is, is, is very slim.
00:39:01So, um, I, I don't really see a struggle with, with why we're, you know, not really wanting
00:39:09to raise the weight.
00:39:10I think it's been a big talk over the last few weeks and, you know, there's been talks
00:39:16about increasing it to one 20, but now when these guys come over William Buick, O'Shea
00:39:21Murphy, and they, they come to ride in America, one, some of them can't come because they can't
00:39:26make the weight.
00:39:27And two, if they can make the weight, they're putting themselves at super high unhealthy
00:39:32risk to come here, to ride America, to ride the horses that they're riding, um, to make
00:39:37the weight over here.
00:39:38So, um, it really puts everybody at a dangerous, you know, dangerous situation.
00:39:43And, and even, you know, it can be a super dangerous situation leading up to the races.
00:39:49Um, and there's a lot of guys that go out there very dehydrated or haven't eaten anything
00:39:53in a couple of days and that's, that's just not healthy and it's not made, that doesn't
00:39:58make safe racing.
00:39:59So, all right, Trevor McCarthy, thank you so much for being our guest this week on the,
00:40:05as the Gainesway guest of the week.
00:40:06Uh, and we're all so glad that, uh, your life has turned a corner and we're proud of
00:40:11you for speaking out and the good work you're doing for, uh, your, uh, peers, uh, in your,
00:40:16uh, former profession.
00:40:17So best of luck to you down the road and happy Thanksgiving, my friend.
00:40:21Thanks guys.
00:40:22Appreciate you having me.
00:40:23Cheers, Trevor.
00:40:25Cheers.
00:40:26Trevor McCarthy, our guest of the week brought to you as always by Gainesway, the home of
00:40:30a new stallion in 2026.
00:40:32And that would be locked.
00:40:34Locked checks a lot of boxes as they like to say in the sport.
00:40:37First of all, he's a son of gun runner.
00:40:39He's a multiple grade one winner.
00:40:41He began his career at Saratoga career debut, ran a 96 buyer speed figure, the fastest two
00:40:47year old maiden winner at Saratoga in 10 years.
00:40:50He won graded stakes races at two, three, and four.
00:40:55The breeders futurity at two grade one cigar mile at three grade two.
00:40:59And then the Santa Anita handicap, he romped earlier this year.
00:41:02And of course, that's a great one.
00:41:04So lock retires with earnings of over $1.9 million.
00:41:07One are placed in 10 of 11 starts.
00:41:09And he stands at Gainesway farm for an initial fee of $35,000.
00:41:14Gainesway, power, passion, performance.
00:41:19McKenzie in a dominant performance.
00:41:29Million two, million two, right there.
00:41:31A million, 200,000.
00:41:32Baeza gets his moment in the sun in the Pennsylvania Derby.
00:41:36Chancer, Mick Patrick wins the champagne impressively.
00:41:39A spectacular display from Scottish Lassie, who's in front by 15 legs.
00:41:49So in the news this week was an announcement that there was a dispute between Naira and
00:41:55the Horseman's group.
00:41:56Naira wanted to cut down 10 days from the 2026 schedule.
00:42:00The Horseman, no doubt, no surprise, objected to this.
00:42:03I would come out and be adamantly in favor of what Naira is trying to do here, because
00:42:10we all know there's too much racing.
00:42:13The fields are too short, and we need to have less racing.
00:42:17And they're only talking about cutting 10 days.
00:42:19They even said they will go back to 200.
00:42:21Well, right now, they're advocating for 190 days in 2026, promising to go back to 200 in
00:42:282027 when Belmont reopens.
00:42:30I do understand the Horseman's perspective.
00:42:32I mean, they like to have a lot of racing.
00:42:34I think it was up to them.
00:42:35They would race 300 days a year, but that's just not practical.
00:42:39Zoe, what do you think about this?
00:42:41I think it's the local Horseman more that are having a beef with this.
00:42:45I read somewhere that, you know, they were saying the Kentucky Horseman come in for the
00:42:49boutique meets, which they do.
00:42:51They come in for Saratoga.
00:42:52They go into Del Mar, and then they leave, and they're not around for the bread and butter.
00:42:56The bread and butter time of year is this time of year where the local trainers make their
00:43:02bread and butter, and they'll win some races and don't have to compete against the likes
00:43:07of the Kentucky guys, the people that ship in for the big stakes.
00:43:10So, yeah, I get that from a point of view.
00:43:14So, you know, I'm 50-50 on this.
00:43:17There probably is too much racing, and they can't fill the races.
00:43:20I mean, you shouldn't have that many days if you can't fill the races.
00:43:25You're 50-50.
00:43:27I'm 99.5% to 0.5%.
00:43:31Look, the HBPA has done a lot of wonderful things in the sport, you know, for horsemen,
00:43:36for people on the backside.
00:43:38In situations like this, let the racetracks run the racetracks.
00:43:43Let the racetracks decide how many days they should run, what's better for their business.
00:43:49It's not like the horsemen are going to get less money.
00:43:51I mean, they're still going to get paid the same amount of purse money, just going to
00:43:54be concentrated into fewer racing days.
00:43:57Stay out of the business of running the racetrack and focus on training the horses, owning
00:44:02the horses, what's going on on the backside, and things like that.
00:44:06That's my two cents.
00:44:08But see, if I was the racing czar, they would hate me because I wouldn't even have winter
00:44:12racing in New York.
00:44:15Not at all.
00:44:16Close it down.
00:44:18Close it down in November.
00:44:20No racing in New York.
00:44:22In December, January, February, and bring it back in March at Aqueduct, like it used to
00:44:27be in the old days.
00:44:29So the other night I had dinner with a very nice fellow, Jay Brissione, who is the head
00:44:33of the syndicate that owns my friend, Bookum Dano.
00:44:37And he was generally worried that he could lose the Eclipse Award race to Bentonato, who
00:44:43of course has strong credentials having won the Breeders' Cup Sprint.
00:44:48No surprise where I'm landing on this.
00:44:52I would have a hard time voting in any case for a horse that only ran twice this year,
00:44:58which is the case with Bentonato.
00:44:59And what Bookum Dano did at Saratoga, winning those three races, I think is a remarkable
00:45:05accomplishment.
00:45:06Randy, where are you going on this?
00:45:10Who's going to get your vote?
00:45:12Well, right now I'm calling up the past performances for Bookum Dano as we speak.
00:45:17And Bookum Dano, in calendar year 2025, we know how good he was.
00:45:24He ran five times, as opposed to twice for Bentonato.
00:45:29He won the four-go, grade one.
00:45:31He won the Alfred G. Vanderbilt, grade two.
00:45:33He won the True North, grade three.
00:45:35And then he won another race at Colonial Downs earlier in the year that was just like a,
00:45:40you know, let's get started race.
00:45:43And he was also beaten just a neck in the Churchill Downs stakes, which is probably one
00:45:47of the deepest sprint races of the calendar year.
00:45:50He also ran a 111 buyer speed figure in the Alfred G. Vanderbilt.
00:45:56Ben Tornado was awesome in the Breeders' Cup.
00:45:59I would give a little edge to the overall body of work, I think, and give the slight edge
00:46:06to Bookum Dano, but it would be only a slight edge because the Breeders' Cup obviously is,
00:46:11you know, the focal point of the second half of the year.
00:46:15Ditto.
00:46:16Exactly what he said.
00:46:18I would probably have to go for Bookum Dano.
00:46:23And, you know, Ben Tornado had every opportunity.
00:46:26Yes, he would have been running off the layoff to run against Bookum Dano at Saratoga and
00:46:31opted to go to Churchill Downs.
00:46:33So you can't really blame them for doing that.
00:46:36Ben Tornado was pretty damn awesome winning the Breeders' Cup sprint.
00:46:40But Bookum Dano winning three races at Saratoga, three for three at Saratoga.
00:46:44We know how hard it is to win any kind of race at Saratoga.
00:46:48So my vote would be for Bookum Dano.
00:46:50And one more thing, to piggyback on what Bill said last week when we were talking about Bookum
00:46:56Dano, it's not going to help Bookum Dano's Eclipse Award chances.
00:47:01The comments that were made as justification for not running Bookum Dano in the Breeders' Cup.
00:47:10They made it sound as if they, you know, they had various beefs and things like that,
00:47:15as opposed to, you know, the horse is just not physically 100%, so we're not going to send him.
00:47:19And that is not going to help their chances, because people are going to think that they
00:47:24ducked the Breeders' Cup unnecessarily, and that's not good.
00:47:28Not now they won't.
00:47:30Bill had his say last week.
00:47:32You obviously got dinner paid for, right?
00:47:34Yeah, he sprung for dinner.
00:47:36Yeah.
00:47:36Randy, I want to add to what you said there.
00:47:40I totally agree.
00:47:41They didn't do a good job handling that situation.
00:47:44But in particular, there was an article that came out, I believe in, actually, I don't
00:47:50remember where it was, but the trainer, Derek Ryan, said the reason we're not running in
00:47:54the Breeders' Cup is because we can't have Paco Lopez.
00:47:58A, that's not true, and B, it was preposterous.
00:48:00You know, you don't think they could have got a top two or three jockey to ride who would
00:48:05probably have been favored in the Breeders' Cup.
00:48:07And I think that, you know, again, those kind of statements just, I think it really will.
00:48:11It's going to come back to bite them.
00:48:13I don't think enough to cost him the Eclipse Award.
00:48:16I do think he will win.
00:48:17But yeah, that was not handled well.
00:48:21Now, we just got finished with our interview with Trevor McCarthy.
00:48:26And Randy, I know you wanted to talk a little bit more about what he had to say about the
00:48:31idea of increasing weights for jockeys.
00:48:34Just quickly, his opinion about, yeah, increasing the overall scale of weight in the United States.
00:48:40I think that would be a terrible mistake to do that.
00:48:44You would make the situation, if you're trying to help jockeys that are reducing and are really,
00:48:53you know, seriously compromising their health in order to make the weight to ride the races,
00:48:59if that's your ultimate goal, increasing the scale of weights in the United States will make
00:49:04things worse and not better.
00:49:06It'll make things better for the jockeys currently riding.
00:49:10But one stat for you, just to illustrate what the severity of that problem will be,
00:49:14the U.S. Census Bureau keeps track of things like this.
00:49:19I'm just going to focus on males age 20 to 29.
00:49:23There are 2 million, roughly, that are 140 pounds or less.
00:49:30150 pounds or less, there are 4 million.
00:49:35So, do the math.
00:49:37There are twice as many young men in the United States right now that weigh 150 than there are
00:49:41that weigh 140.
00:49:42You increase the scale of weights, you're basically going to double the number of people
00:49:47who then might feel like riding is within their reach if they just starve themselves
00:49:54and they can maybe, you know, share in some of that lucrative purse money.
00:49:58It would be a big mistake.
00:49:59That's the reason why, I think.
00:50:01All right.
00:50:02We're going to take another break and we're going to hear from the PHBA and the KTOB.
00:50:06When we come back, we'll take a look at some of the major stakes races that are to be run
00:50:10this weekend.
00:50:11Stay with us.
00:50:13The TD and Riders Room, sponsored by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:50:17The PHBA, the 2026 Pennsylvania Stallion and Boarding Farm Directory is now online at
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00:51:42With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round, there's never
00:51:48been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:51:54Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as is average purse per race, outpacing California,
00:52:01Florida, and New York.
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00:52:12The TDN Writer's Room, also brought to you by Kentucky Breads, the Kentucky Thoroughbred
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00:53:05Clearly, it pays to race and breed in the bluegrass.
00:53:08Kentucky Breads, breed them, raise them, race them.
00:53:12We all win.
00:53:12This is the last really big weekend of racing coming up on the 2025 schedule.
00:53:18Naira will have some big races with the Remsen and the Cigar Mile still left on the calendar.
00:53:24But these are kind of the quiet days of the season, no doubt.
00:53:28But nonetheless, a lot to get excited about this week, particularly at Churchill Downs, which
00:53:32has some really good races carded for their weekend, starting with the fall city stakes,
00:53:38which is on Thanksgiving Day.
00:53:40I thought this was a very good field considering this just a grade three race.
00:53:44The seven to two second choice raised, you can see.
00:53:48I don't like her one bit.
00:53:49For whatever reason, she hasn't been nearly as good this year as she was last year when
00:53:53she ran second in the Breeders' Cup Distaff.
00:53:57My pick will be regaled for Whit Beckman, who ran third beat in six lengths in the Breeders'
00:54:02Cup Distaff.
00:54:03Races a lot better than it looks on paper.
00:54:05Keep in mind that that was a inside rail speed favoring track.
00:54:11And look at the comment on this five wide sweeping move.
00:54:14Zoe, did you take a look at this race?
00:54:16Yeah, regaled is most definitely the horse to beat in here.
00:54:20That was actually my long shot in the Breeders' Cup Distaff.
00:54:24So I really like regaled in here.
00:54:26And I'm going to tell you not to sleep on the horse that draws the rail.
00:54:30That's chilled for Vicky Oliver.
00:54:32But coming in with a pretty good resume, obviously, he's going to be stepping back up in class.
00:54:38She's been beaten by some of these already.
00:54:40But I like the way she's progressing.
00:54:43The one disadvantage to regaled is that she got a pretty quick pace in front of her in
00:54:48the Breeders' Cup Distaff.
00:54:49And it's not going to be nearly as contentious a pace in front of her here.
00:54:54I mean, I think there'll be more than the Locust Grove at Churchill in September.
00:54:58The one, two, three finishers from that race are all coming back.
00:55:01Royal Spa, Alpine Princess.
00:55:02Henry Galed was third in there, just as an example of what a slower pace, how that can
00:55:09impact her chances.
00:55:10So I'll take Alpine Princess.
00:55:12I thought that she had a better trip than Royal Spa, or excuse me, Royal Spa had a better
00:55:17trip than Alpine Princess.
00:55:19The slow pace, three wide on the second turn.
00:55:21So I'll take the Brad Cox trainee there at four to one on the morning line.
00:55:26A couple really good races at Churchill on Friday, starting off with the Mrs. Rivera grade
00:55:31two.
00:55:32The morning line maker has Lush Lips at seven to five, Classic Q at three to one.
00:55:37I'll eat some chalk here with Lush Lips.
00:55:39First of all, it's very interesting that she was the top seller at the Keeneland November
00:55:44sale for $3.7 million as just a three-year-old filly.
00:55:49But, you know, she won the most important three-year-old filly grass race of the year, winning
00:55:54the Queen Elizabeth at Keeneland last out with Tyler Gafleone aboard.
00:55:58And she beat a really nice horse in Laurelund.
00:56:01Classic Q is interesting for Mark Cassie, has really changed for three straight races, went
00:56:08to the front, all of a sudden, totally changed her running style.
00:56:12She came from almost last to finish second in the Valley View.
00:56:15It's kind of weird that a horse's style would change that much.
00:56:18But I think Lush Lips is the one.
00:56:21I'll take the low price.
00:56:22Yeah.
00:56:22I mean, she had a beautiful trip in the Queen Elizabeth at Keeneland, breaking from post
00:56:26one, but she gets post one again.
00:56:28And she was visually, I thought Zoe, very impressive in her win.
00:56:31Who was she ever?
00:56:33And how do you think Brendan feels?
00:56:35$3.7 million and she's being returned to your barn?
00:56:40Do you feel she's the first horse he checks every morning?
00:56:42Like, you'd think that she would be in the first stall right by his office and, like,
00:56:46that would be the first one he goes to.
00:56:48But she's stable the turf way.
00:56:49Now, as a main string, I mean, I hate to assume anything, but I'm going to say is at
00:56:54Churchill Downs.
00:56:55He's got horses at turf way.
00:56:57She obviously does much better over the turf way track, training each and every day because
00:57:02she is predominantly a turf horse.
00:57:04So she's stabled at turf way.
00:57:06Brendan, for the most part, is stabled at Churchill.
00:57:09How many times a week do you think he goes over and just says, good girl, good girl, check
00:57:14the legs?
00:57:15And that's a lot of money to be in your barn.
00:57:17All right, so the next race coming up among the major stakes races is the Clark Stakes
00:57:23at Churchill.
00:57:24This is always a really good race.
00:57:27I think, again, the field came up, as usual, pretty strong.
00:57:31That's put up $600,000 for this.
00:57:34Chunk of Gold, he's the blue-collar hero of this year's racing.
00:57:39It's 10 to 1 in the morning line.
00:57:40But if I don't have a wager on this race, I'll be rooting for him because he's a really,
00:57:44really cool story.
00:57:45Hit show, the Dubai World Cup winner, is listed at 3 to 1 for Brad Cox.
00:57:52But I'm a magnitude fan.
00:57:55He showed so much potential early in the year.
00:57:58I mean, albeit in the Iowa Derby was not exactly the Traverse.
00:58:04But he won by 9, got a 104 buyer, 108 before that in the Risen Star.
00:58:09Then he had to be put on the shelf and didn't run well at all in the Traverse, but came back
00:58:14with a nice effort in the Pennsylvania Derby to finish second.
00:58:17And please note that there's a major jockey change here from Ben Curtis to Jose Ortiz.
00:58:22No knock on Ben Curtis, he's a terrific rider, but I think Jose Ortiz is an improvement in
00:58:28that category.
00:58:29Randy Moss?
00:58:30It's a great race.
00:58:32Love this race.
00:58:33I mean, the 1, 2, 3 finishers in the Fayette all come back.
00:58:36Hit show, rattle and roll, and Gosger.
00:58:39I thought Gosger was the best horse in the Fayette.
00:58:43He was 4 wide on the first turn, 3 wide on the second turn, and Brendan Walsh, there's
00:58:48that name again, puts blinkers on Gosger for the very first time here, trying to get him
00:58:53just a little closer to the pace.
00:58:56He wants him right in the mix.
00:58:57But I agree with you, Bill.
00:58:58If the odds are correct, if the morning line odds turn out to be pretty accurate, magnitude
00:59:04is 9 to 2.
00:59:06If he goes off at 9 to 2 in here, given his second place finish when he didn't get the
00:59:11kind of trip that he likes in the Pennsylvania Derby, I think it's between him and Gosger.
00:59:15I like those two.
00:59:16And he really showed a new dimension in the Pennsylvania Derby.
00:59:21I mean, obviously, you're going from Ben Curtis to Jose Ortiz.
00:59:24I get it.
00:59:25But Ben's really done nothing wrong on this horse in all the times he's ridden him.
00:59:30And Jose's already ridden him twice, lest us not forget.
00:59:33He's been beaten on him twice already.
00:59:35So it's not like you're handing him the keys to the car of a car he's never driven before.
00:59:39I do like the fact that he set off the pace and closed nicely to Baeza last time.
00:59:44Yes, he was beaten a fair way by Baeza, but did show a new dimension.
00:59:49So I like magnitude and I like his draw on the outside.
00:59:52Saturday at Churchill is that car they have for all two-year-olds, which is always very
00:59:56exciting.
00:59:57The Kentucky Jockey Club kicks it off for males.
00:59:59And Randy, I want to start with you again here because you're the buyer expert.
01:00:04What a fascinating story.
01:00:05Further ado is, and I talked about him last week on the podcast as a horse to watch on
01:00:10the Triple Crown Trail, but shows very little in two sprint races at Saratoga and then just
01:00:16explodes first time around two turns to run a 98 buyer, which is tied for the second best
01:00:21buyer this year among all two-year-olds to win by 20 lengths.
01:00:26Tell us about that number and is this horse for real?
01:00:31Well, I'll say this.
01:00:31The number was at least 98.
01:00:34It could have actually, you can make a case, it could have actually been a few points higher
01:00:37than that.
01:00:38It could have crept into the triple-digit category.
01:00:41Now, he did get a really nice trip.
01:00:44He just sat right outside a pace setter in reasonable fractions at Caneland, but he just
01:00:51rocketed, just rocketed away from the field.
01:00:54He's coming from a maiden race into a graded stakes race, obviously.
01:00:57But you can say that also about some of the other leading contenders in here.
01:01:02Baffert is sending in a maiden by the name of Cherokee Nation who went head and head down
01:01:08the stretch in a pretty eye-catching maiden race at Santa Anita, fighting with a horse
01:01:12named Mr. A.P. and lost in a photo in a gallant effort.
01:01:16Mr. A.P., of course, came back and finished second in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile, so that
01:01:20flattered Cherokee Nation.
01:01:21And then a horse called Dr. Kapoor, who Ken Ramsey named after the surgeon that performed
01:01:28his kidney transplant.
01:01:31Dr. Kapoor has had two lifetime starts, good numbers both times, not 98 numbers, but good
01:01:40numbers.
01:01:41And Safi Joseph trains Dr. Kapoor, and he's going to be one of the leading contenders, too.
01:01:46Really very, very good race.
01:01:48What was the name of the Not This Time Colt that won by, I don't know, 17 lengths at
01:01:54Saratoga?
01:01:55Yeah, it was Tom Amos' horse, yeah, but I don't remember the name.
01:02:01I can't remember, but he kind of reminds me of him, and then everyone hyped him so much,
01:02:08and then you couldn't find him with a search warrant the next time.
01:02:10I mean, it's hard not to, like, further ado, but he's not the only horse in here.
01:02:15Randy just rattled off some really, really nice horses that will run him to, you know,
01:02:22whatever they can run him to.
01:02:23I don't know if he can come back and win by that.
01:02:25Obviously, that would be incredible if he could, but there's some nice horses in here.
01:02:30It's not a one-horse race.
01:02:32So the two-year-old Philly equivalent of the Kentucky Jacket Club is the Golden Rod, and
01:02:38this one looks easy.
01:02:40Explora, having come in off a second-place finish in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Philly,
01:02:44trained by Bob Baffer, ridden by Flavian Pratt, will be a huge favorite.
01:02:48I think this race is pretty much over when, as they say, when they drew up the overnight.
01:02:54Zoe?
01:02:55Yeah, she's definitely the horse to beat.
01:02:58She comes back with the bullet work at Santa Anita, 1-11-4.
01:03:01She's held her weight.
01:03:03Bob toys with the blinkers.
01:03:04He likes to put them on for their first start.
01:03:06Then he likes to take them off.
01:03:08And obviously, he wants her to know he means business this time, so they're back on.
01:03:13Explora, a.k.a. Blame Cape, as I like to call her.
01:03:17She is most definitely the horse to beat in here.
01:03:20Don't sleep on the grumpy rabbit.
01:03:22Already had a start at Churchill Downs.
01:03:24She draws right outside of her with B.J. Hernandez to ride for Kenny McPeak.
01:03:29Now, okay, I agree.
01:03:31Explora, on paper, is definitely the horse to beat and will probably be odds-on.
01:03:37But she does have the 12-hole.
01:03:40And Churchill Downs at a mile and a 16th has an even shorter run to the first turn than most other racetracks,
01:03:47one-mile tracks running a mile and a 16th, because the finish line is so far down the stretch at Churchill.
01:03:52So that's a big disadvantage for Explora.
01:03:55And if you're wanting to take a chance against her because of that, let me give you the name of a horse that might go off 8 or 10 to 1.
01:04:01Her name is Bella Ballerina.
01:04:04She's owned by Godolphin, trained by Brendan Walsh.
01:04:07And she happens to be a half-sister to Pretty Mischievous, who won the Kentucky Oaks.
01:04:14She's a daughter of street scents.
01:04:16She should get better around two turns.
01:04:18And she was visually very impressive, despite a four-wide trip when she broke her maiden in her career debut at Keeneland.
01:04:26And she drew off to win by four lengths.
01:04:28So at a decent price, don't leave her out of your place.
01:04:34You think she'll be 10 to 1?
01:04:38Probably not.
01:04:39I think she'll be a shorter price than that.
01:04:40I'm expecting probably 5 to 1 or 6 to 1.
01:04:44She might even wind up being the second choice.
01:04:46But there's also New York bread in here, trained by Mike Maker, by the name of Let Me Count the Ways.
01:04:52I mean, you go back and look at her New York bread win in the Maid of Mist in October at Aqueduct.
01:04:57You cannot win a race more easily than she won that.
01:05:03She won it by six.
01:05:04And I'll bet you four or five different times in the last 3 16ths of a mile,
01:05:09Joelle Rosario looked back between his legs for competition and just eased her up.
01:05:15She's a definite wire-to-wire thread in here.
01:05:18So I think it's going to be between her and Bella Ballerina as far as who's going to be the second choice.
01:05:23Interesting.
01:05:24So also a big weekend of racing at Del Mar as they end their Bing Crosby meet.
01:05:30And then they'll move on to Los Alamitos for a little while until Santa Anita reopens on December 26th.
01:05:35They've got the Hollywood Gold Cup on Saturday.
01:05:38A terrific card with the Hollywood Derby, the Seabiscuit, and the Jimmy Durante.
01:05:41Why don't we focus in on the Hollywood Derby?
01:05:44Because I believe, yeah, it's the only grade one race.
01:05:47With all these big races, it's the only grade one race of the weekend.
01:05:51Chad Brown, of course, is a major factor in here.
01:05:54He's won the race four times.
01:05:55And he will come in from Belmont with Salamis, S-A-L-A-M-I-S for Juddmont.
01:06:02But I think this is Tesco's race to lose.
01:06:05She's the only grade one winner in the field.
01:06:08And they put the blinkers on her, Grand Motion did last time out.
01:06:12And she got a win in the Twilight Derby at Santa Anita.
01:06:15She's just, I mean, even though this is a grade one horse, she is the only grade one winner in the field.
01:06:20And also, from a buyer standpoint, she ran before the Twilight Derby, she ran three straight races in the 90s.
01:06:28And there's nobody else in here that can match up to her when it comes to that.
01:06:33So it's a fairly confident pick for me.
01:06:35Zoe, what do you think of the Hollywood Derby?
01:06:37Well, Tesco, he is the horse to beat for training, Grand Motion.
01:06:41Already had a nice win yesterday, Dave.
01:06:45Whenever it was, I'm losing track on days.
01:06:47He's won one of the stakes down there already.
01:06:50So Tesco, definitely, he's the horse to beat.
01:06:53The Sun are looking at Lucky.
01:06:54Tom's Magic is in here.
01:06:56Now he's done very well in those restricted races up there at Woodbine.
01:06:59But he's a pretty good horse.
01:07:01By Justify, they paid $200,000 for him.
01:07:04So I'm going to throw him in the mix.
01:07:07And then we just saw the work on Tempus Volat, another one coming out of a restricted race with Miko DiMaro, who, what's he, 10 for 30 right now, batting 33% down there at Del Mar, having a terrific meet as well.
01:07:20So it's definitely a competitive race, for sure.
01:07:24Yeah.
01:07:24I mean, not only has Chad Brown won this race four times, and he targets it every year, seemingly.
01:07:29Graham Motion likes to target this race as well.
01:07:32And he has won this race also.
01:07:34Graham, of course, the trainer of Tesco.
01:07:36So Hollywood Derby, it's a good race.
01:07:38Guess who won the Hollywood Derby as a three-year-old?
01:07:40Last start of his three-year-old year.
01:07:41I didn't realize this.
01:07:43A lot of people, I think, don't realize it.
01:07:44California Chrome.
01:07:45Yes, California Chrome.
01:07:46No kidding.
01:07:47Yeah.
01:07:47Good rabbit hole factoid there, Randy.
01:07:50California Chrome, past winner of the Hollywood Derby.
01:07:53Yep.
01:07:53All right.
01:07:55It's now time for the First TV Work of the Week, which is brought to you, of course, by First TV.
01:08:01Tempus Volat was the winner of the Let It Ride Stakes at Del Mar in his very last start.
01:08:06That was on October the 30th.
01:08:08He's been working steadily for his return, as we see with a half-mile work at Santa Anita on Friday in 50 and 1.
01:08:15for trainer Leo Palnott.
01:08:17He's by the hottest sire on the planet, not this time, and he will head next to the Hollywood Derby at Del Mar.
01:08:24We'll be talking about that in just a moment.
01:08:27We'll be right back after this message from First TV.
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01:09:32Do want to remind you that the TDN Rises Room is also brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:09:37Now, West Point reached a meaningful milestone this month when Sorcerer's Silver was moved to Mayworth Farm in Lexington for his retirement.
01:09:46Now, let's get you up to speed on the story.
01:09:49Sorcerer's Silver severely injured his right front ankle during the running of the Grade 2 Pat Day Mile Stakes on Kentucky Derby Day.
01:09:57In a different era, there would have been no choice but to euthanize him.
01:10:01But thanks to the innovation and expertise of Dr. Larry Bramlich, who else, he performed a successful surgery.
01:10:08And over the past six months, Sorcerer's Silver steadily hit every recovery benchmark.
01:10:15He is now able to enjoy full-time turnout in a paddock, which is absolutely marvelous.
01:10:21West Point extends its deep appreciation to Dr. Bramley at Bram Lidge and the team at Rood and Riddle,
01:10:27to Mark McEntee and his staff at Meerkomet Farm and to Mayworth Farm for welcoming him so warmly
01:10:34as part of his admirable mission to provide lifelong refuge for horses who cannot persevere a second career.
01:10:42Big round of applause for them.
01:10:44For more information on becoming a partner, check out www.westpointtb.com.
01:10:51Well, that looks like it's a wrap on this week's show.
01:10:54I want to thank my partners, Zoe Cabman and Randy Moss, our Gainsway Guest of the Week, Trevor McCarthy,
01:11:00and a special thanks to our producers, directors, and all the people that work behind the scenes
01:11:05to make the show what it is.
01:11:07And that team is Sue Finley, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aliyah LaRocca.
01:11:12Once again, have a happy Thanksgiving, everybody, and we'll see you next week.
01:11:15Bye-bye.
01:11:16Bye-bye.
01:11:17Bye-bye.
01:11:18Bye-bye.
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