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Martin Scorsese Presents The Saints
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Short filmTranscript
00:00These are stories of the saints.
00:30I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
01:00KUHKA
01:16KUHKA
01:28We know that Moses the Black, as he came to be known, had an unlikely beginning for a saint.
01:50Around the middle of the 4th century, he'd become the leader of a band of very violent
01:55outlaws that robbed and murdered victims in Alexandria and all along the Nile Valley.
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02:55Moses led the kind of life that can arouse revolt in the soul.
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05:47I don't know.
06:17I don't know.
06:47I don't know.
07:17Moses found himself at one of the desert communities founded by ascetic Christian monks who gave away all of their worldly possessions.
07:30They were led by their abbot, Isidore.
07:34Paul of Thebes, who was born in the third century, was known as the first desert hermit.
07:42He lived in a cave, and it's said that ravens brought him his food, just like Elijah at Carruth.
07:50Now, it was Anthony the Great, an Egyptian monk, who started the real movement, and this was decades before Moses arrived at Scytis.
07:58Quiet, my son.
08:07You are with us now.
08:12Us?
08:14For what?
08:15I...
08:17Take some time to recall yourself.
08:26Drink a bit at a time.
08:28You have slept long and well.
08:30How long have I been here?
08:38Two days.
08:39What is this place?
08:50The desert of Scytis.
08:53But this place, where we are?
08:56This is an assembly of men devoted to God.
09:05I've heard of you.
09:07You are holy men.
09:09We are Christian brothers.
09:11Oh.
09:35Has anyone come here looking for me?
09:39No.
09:41Where did you come to us?
09:50I didn't know where I was going.
09:56I say, what were you fleeing from?
10:11Will you give me refuge here?
10:20If you choose to live among us here in the desert, then you will choose to live as we do.
10:41O Christ God, bless this food and drink of your servants, you who are holy now and forever through the ages of ages. Amen.
11:03Before we eat our bread, we must welcome this fellow traveler who has come to us.
11:11This man's name is Moses.
11:13Welcome, brother Moses.
11:17Moses came to us in a state of terrible distress.
11:22I will work hard to follow the ways of God.
11:29There's only one way.
11:33The way of God.
11:45John chapter 8.
11:47Moses learned the rhythms and the routines of the monastery. And he followed them exactly.
12:00Therefore, I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink, or about your body, what you will wear.
12:14Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? Look at the birds in the air. They do not sow, or reap, or soar away in barns. And yet, Heavenly Father feeds them.
12:32And yet, Heavenly Father feeds them.
13:02Moses.
13:03Moses.
13:04Moses.
13:05Moses.
13:06Moses.
13:07I would like you to be the keeper of our gospels, our most valuable possession.
13:21Why have you given me this responsibility?
13:25Lord Jesus Christ, who stretched out your hands on the cross, and who you redeem us with your divine blood, forgive us sinners, for none of our thoughts are hidden from you.
13:39Pardon we ask for, pardon we hope for, pardon we trust to have. You who are pitying and merciful, spare and forgive us. Amen.
14:09We need water. I'll go. That's Moses' task.
14:37He isn't here. He'll be back.
14:44How do we change? How do we cease acting on urges,
15:06and habits that we've just felt throughout our lives?
15:36Good morning, Brother Moses.
15:37Good morning, Brother Jerome.
15:38Good morning, Brother Jerome.
15:39I was on my way to bring water for the morning.
15:43Do you want me to help you?
15:44I was on my way to bring water for the morning.
15:45Do you want me to help you?
15:46I was on my way to bring water for the morning.
15:47I was on my way to bring water for the morning.
15:53Do you want me to help you?
15:54I was on my way to bring water for the morning.
15:55I was on my way to bring water for the morning.
16:00I was on my way to bring water for the morning.
16:07Do you want me to help you?
16:10Do you want me to help you?
16:11No.
16:17Would you prefer to walk behind me?
16:32No.
16:39We'll walk together.
16:54May you walk in grace, Brother Moses.
16:57Sometimes judgment turns into mercy.
17:01Just like that.
17:03Like water turning into wine.
17:14Moses applied himself to his penance and to his work with intensity.
17:27Blessed are the poor spirits, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
17:32Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be confident.
17:37Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
17:42Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
17:49Blessed are the merciful, for there will be shown mercy.
17:54Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
17:59Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God.
18:05Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
18:13Blessed are the mocno of heaven.
18:18What?
18:23He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.
18:38They started to leave, one by one, and only Jesus and the woman were left.
18:46Jesus said, Woman, where are they? Did anyone condemn you?
18:55She said, No one, Lord.
19:01And Jesus said, I do not condemn you either.
19:07Go. From now on, sin no more.
19:17Good.
19:20Oh, John, chapter 8.
19:37Oh, my God.
19:54Oh, my God.
20:07Oh, my God.
20:12Oh, my God.
20:16This man came here to rob us. This cannot be.
20:35Moses.
20:38You?
20:39You're here.
20:41And those are my old comrades.
20:46Moses, now you know what you must do.
21:05Please, forgive me.
21:15Forgive me for hurting you.
21:19This man could have killed us both in one blow.
21:33Oh, my God.
21:34No one will die.
21:35Oh, my God.
21:36He-he-he-he-he.
21:37Oh, my God.
21:38Help me.
21:40Oh, my God.
22:10Could he erase his past?
22:19And anyone.
22:21He prayed 50 times a day.
22:25He refused himself sleep.
22:29It's a matter of pride.
22:31No matter what Moses did, he just could not reconcile his past.
22:54I will leave.
23:02You won't have to ask me.
23:04I'm an abomination.
23:16I will never pay for what I've done in the eyes of the Lord.
23:22Not if I lived a thousand years and spent every hour in service to my brothers.
23:31I will never rid myself of the filthy sins I've committed.
23:42Father, you don't know what I've done.
23:59Go on.
24:00My soul is as black as the darkest key.
24:17The soul is beyond our reach.
24:21I'm not redeemable.
24:27Redemption is open to us all at every moment.
24:32Don't believe that you're an exception.
24:35I've stolen.
24:39I've done murder.
24:40Rivers of blood.
24:53Rivers of blood.
24:55You've done these things.
24:57Now, you are here.
24:59I'm a devil.
25:02I'm the personification of evil.
25:04You've found a way to redemption.
25:06I've murdered men.
25:08And women.
25:09With my bare hands.
25:11You've come here.
25:12Of all the places in the world, you came here.
25:15I've done murder in my hands.
25:16To us.
25:17To God.
25:18No, I'm not redeemable.
25:20Don't you hear me?
25:22I will never rid myself of these demons.
25:25These demons.
25:27Never.
25:30Never.
25:31Very good, Moses.
25:33Very good.
25:34How can you say such a thing to me?
25:39Are you a demon?
25:40The real torment is to know that our demons are here to stay with us.
25:51I don't understand.
25:53Don't be a child.
25:56Who can rid himself of the memories of his sins?
25:59I've committed sins that always come back to me as if they've just happened.
26:06It's the way it is.
26:08It's the way it shall be.
26:10Always.
26:10The more we try to rid ourselves of the memories of our sins, the more they plague us.
26:19That's because they're not meant to be vanquished.
26:23They are meant to be lived with.
26:26How can I live with?
26:27Lived with?
26:29Yes.
26:33How can I live with this?
26:36Lived with and treated with patience.
26:44You are men of God saying these words.
26:56To love God is to love oneself as one loves his brother.
27:02Well, it is a paradox.
27:12We, we all live in God and his love.
27:18You are not alone, brother Moses.
27:28You are not alone.
27:35God is good.
27:36Moses' transformation is abandonment.
28:06of greed and murder and indolence.
28:12Then pride.
28:13Then lust.
28:15Then attachment in the material world.
28:18Then his own ego.
28:21It happened the way it always does.
28:24Over time.
28:26Through daily ritual and practice.
28:29To the point where everything becomes prayer.
28:31I let him be the first to throw a stone at her
28:36They started to leave one by one
28:40And only Jesus and the woman were left
28:44Jesus said, Woman, where are they?
28:49Did anyone condemn you?
28:51She said, No one, Lord
28:54And Jesus said, I didn't know condemn you either
28:59Go, from now on, sin no more
29:04The years went by, Isidore died
29:13And Moses became a venerable and a beloved figure
29:29Moses
29:40Bring me some water, if you please
29:56Are you able to speak, my son?
30:09Sanctuary
30:09Sanctuary
30:12You have to give me refuge
30:14I have killed my father
30:23You have nothing to say
30:33I've heard you
30:37It's the most terrible thing a person can do
30:44I've never heard anyone
30:51And now, you have
30:55I'll tell you why I did it
30:59He raped my sister
31:02You're judging me
31:09Behind your compassion
31:13My son
31:15There is no reason to put thoughts into our heads
31:21You knocked on our door
31:24And we opened it
31:25That one
31:28He's judging me
31:31I know you
31:32I have traded with your father several seasons ago
31:36So
31:38So
31:38Why do you stare at me?
31:43Stop looking at me!
31:46My son
31:47What you've done
31:58Can't be undone
32:01And the same
32:06Goes for what your father did to your sister
32:09You can't walk backwards
32:11For the rest of your life
32:13Very difficult
32:15And you will not find an instant remedy
32:20Certainly not here
32:22Here, there is only one way
32:25And that's the way of God
32:28Here
32:31And everywhere
32:34There's nothing worse than what I've done
32:42Then why did you try
32:44To justify yourself
32:46By talking about avenging your sister
32:48Your life has changed
32:53And now
32:55You must live differently
32:57No
33:01There's nothing worse than what I've done
33:04Listen, my young friend
33:15I've done far worse
33:22I must rest now
33:29You will stay in the guest room
33:32Tonight
33:33It was prepared for you
33:37My friend
33:38Thank you
33:52Where is the old man?
34:19Oh, he's gone
34:22Gone
34:24When?
34:26In the middle of the night, I suppose
34:28Did you expect to find him here?
34:34He would perish out there
34:35He won't
34:39He knows the desert
34:40Come
34:53Thank you for seeing me
34:59You are renowned as a wise and righteous man
35:04Anyone who claims to be both of the things
35:10Is neither
35:12I have come to understand that sin is a part of our worldly state
35:17That only the ones who've fallen into it can really understand it
35:23And then turn away from it
35:25As you say
35:28Is this correct?
35:36If I were to say yes
35:45What good would it do you?
35:50And
35:51If I were to say no
35:54What good would that do you?
35:57What are you doing?
36:05I'm looking for
36:06A mouse
36:08But you are an elder
36:12We come to learn from you
36:16I have very little to teach
36:22But when a young man
36:29Comes to you for counsel
36:33What do you say to him?
36:37Tell him
36:49Turn up the ground of your being
36:53With a gospel blow
36:56And then
36:58You will see that there is a greater book
37:02Which is the nature of all created things
37:06And I say
37:09That everything changes
37:13That the peace
37:17And tranquility of this place
37:20And the holy silence
37:23Of the desert
37:25Might be over and one day
37:28And ground into dust
37:31And that
37:37Only God
37:39Is genteless
37:41Only God
37:46In 407 AD
38:02When Moses was near
38:04The end of his days
38:05A tribe of Berber nomads
38:07Started raiding
38:08And pillaging their way
38:09Throughout Egypt
38:10Now the brothers in the community
38:13Rushed about
38:14And
38:15Actually most of them left
38:17But Moses
38:19Remains still
38:21He stayed put
38:24He was just ready
38:28To face his final test
38:30You
38:39I see
38:45You
38:53I see
38:59You still haven't forgiven yourself
39:02I knew you would come back
39:04I would have
39:06Fought to the death
39:08With you once
39:09Live by the sword
39:11Die by the sword
39:13Living here
39:19Not me
39:21In either way
39:43Moses' sainthood
40:05Was conferred by legend
40:07That's the way it happened
40:09In those early days
40:09Of Christianity
40:10And the story of his life
40:13Is a
40:13Pure embodiment
40:15Of two intertwined values
40:17Always radical
40:18At the beating heart
40:19Of Christ's teaching
40:20Forgiveness
40:24And redemption
40:25I hadn't heard of Moses the Black
40:48Before
40:49Looking into the research
40:50Of this
40:50I mean
40:51It's
40:51It's kind of
40:52You know
40:53Difficult to imagine
40:55The murderer who becomes a saint
40:56The question is
40:57Can anyone be redeemed?
41:00I think the answer to that is yes
41:02I think Moses' life shows that
41:05The tradition of the desert fathers
41:07And desert mothers
41:08Is also because they're in isolation
41:10They're in the desert
41:11The tradition of fighting against demons
41:13But I think we all can identify with that
41:16We all have voices or forces going on within us
41:19So I think even though these stories
41:21You know
41:21Are really extreme
41:22They have a lot to tell the modern person
41:25About you know
41:26How the spiritual life really is kind of a battle
41:28I love this period of Christianity
41:32This radical asceticism
41:35And
41:36These solitary calls
41:41The people who are living on spiders and scorpions
41:45Well I mean the thing is
41:46That they were I think
41:47Distancing themselves
41:48From what was becoming
41:49A kind of corruption
41:50In the cities
41:52Of
41:53We live this way
41:54No we believe in this
41:55All this fighting going on
41:56Everything
41:57Get away
41:58I mean I know he was fleeing
42:00After the
42:01You know
42:02He was fleeing his companions
42:04He was called out there
42:06Wasn't he?
42:06I don't know if he was called
42:07I think more he just
42:08Somehow
42:09In the midst of all the madness
42:12Of killing and robbing
42:15And lust and everything
42:17It just somehow
42:18Completely emptied of everything
42:21And didn't know where he was
42:23Who he was
42:23And he could not go on
42:25Well I think you know
42:26Today people experience that
42:28All the time
42:28You know
42:28They have riches and power
42:30And fame and all this
42:31And cocaine
42:32And they find it
42:33They find it not satisfying
42:35You know
42:35Augustine
42:36You know
42:36Who he quoted earlier
42:37Says
42:37Our hearts are restless
42:38Until they rest in you
42:40Right?
42:40Yet it's not enough
42:41He has to make himself suffer
42:43Yeah
42:44I think he was suffering
42:45But he has to make himself
42:47To a kind of physical
42:48And carnal suffering
42:49Isidore at one point
42:51Tells him you don't have to do this
42:52That's right
42:52You mean the physical mortification?
42:54Yeah the physical mortification
42:55Yeah
42:55And I believe he
42:57According to the story
42:58Did it for over a period of years
43:01Which is also something
43:02That's hard for people
43:02To understand today
43:03I mean
43:04Jesuits
43:06Not too long ago
43:08Were supposed to
43:09Use the flag
43:10Ah I see
43:11The flagella
43:12And it was supposed to be
43:14Not only
43:14Not too long ago
43:15Like how?
43:16Like the 40s maybe
43:18Really?
43:18The 30s or 40s
43:19Yeah
43:19How you dodged a bullet
43:20Why
43:20But the idea was
43:22Not only that you would be
43:24Sort of mastering your flesh
43:26But it was also
43:27It was a kind of penance too
43:28Yes of course
43:29But Merton said famously
43:30Why don't you mortify yourself
43:32And Thomas Merton said
43:33Life is mortifying enough
43:34That's right
43:35And I think
43:36Which is what
43:37Isidore says
43:38Essentially
43:39I feel like
43:41What you're getting at though
43:42Is that
43:42Entering the monastery
43:43Is not a form of cheap grace
43:45He's there
43:46And he's still tormented
43:48He's still consumed by guilt
43:49That's right
43:49It's not going to go away
43:51In five minutes
43:52Or five years
43:53And at several points
43:54The spiritual director
43:56In a sense is saying
43:57Let it go
43:58But it's really weighing on him
43:59He doesn't get to wipe
44:00The slate clean
44:01In any simple way
44:02That's a really good point
44:03The monastery is the world too
44:05Right
44:05So this idea
44:06That we're getting out
44:07Of the world
44:07It's not the world
44:08You know
44:08You're dealing with individuals
44:10You're in community
44:11You're dealing with
44:12Your own sinfulness
44:12You have your needs
44:13And so
44:14You know
44:15People I think
44:15Who enter the monastery
44:16To escape
44:17They find it in the monastery
44:20Your demons come with you
44:22Sure
44:22Yeah
44:22You know
44:23Again the demons
44:24I think can
44:25Sort of put people off
44:26But you know
44:27We all know what it's like
44:28To have those forces
44:29Battling within us
44:30Demons may be the wrong word
44:31But it is
44:32Guilt, self-loathing
44:33Fear
44:34Tanks to rage
44:35Pride
44:35All the seven deadly sins
44:37All the
44:37All those
44:37The demons
44:38Try to say to you
44:39There's no future
44:40And there's no
44:40Right
44:41There's no hope
44:42Right
44:42And so
44:43You'll never change
44:44You'll never change
44:45It's always been like this
44:46Everything winds up this way
44:48You screw up everything
44:50I always say
44:50Anything that's a universal language
44:52Is usually coming from
44:53The evil spirit
44:54But it's interesting
44:55When you realize
44:57It's me, my body
44:58In this apartment
44:59And I have a friend
45:01Who loves me
45:02Maybe I should call them
45:03Question mark
45:04You know
45:05Something just
45:06When it comes down
45:07To small scale
45:08Human scale
45:10And you share it
45:11With another human being
45:12That that's where
45:13That's what happened
45:15To him though
45:15With Isidore
45:16Yeah
45:16And I think
45:17The spiritual life
45:17Is a battle
45:18Which this film shows
45:19Very well
45:20On a very personal level
45:21I also thought
45:23Just in my own self
45:24That there's a force
45:25That thinks it can kill me
45:27And go on living without me
45:28Yeah, but I think
45:29If we're honest with ourselves
45:30We feel that pull within us
45:32Basically towards good
45:33And towards evil
45:34Towards generosity
45:36And towards selfishness
45:37Part of what
45:38Moses' integrity involves
45:39Is the fact that
45:40He is willing to live
45:42With the demons
45:42So it's not just a matter
45:44Of him being haunted
45:44By the demons
45:45It's a matter of him
45:46Having the integrity
45:47To just not brush them off
45:48Or let them go
45:49But to really deal
45:50With the depths
45:51Of what he's done
45:52And where he's been
45:53There's a tradition
45:53In our church
45:54And many others
45:55You know
45:56The idea of penance
45:57And punishment
45:58And mortification
46:00And flailing yourself
46:02Or cuddling yourself
46:03And you know
46:04I think in the church's tradition
46:05The sacrament of reconciliation
46:06And confession
46:07Penance
46:08You know
46:08Is really meant
46:09It's not to punish us
46:10Right
46:11It's not to make us feel bad
46:12It's to help us reconcile
46:14You know
46:14Be reconciled to God
46:15Be reconciled to the community
46:17But also
46:18I usually give
46:19Penances
46:20That are doing something
46:21Generous for somebody
46:22It's not
46:23I don't say
46:23Go in and
46:24You know
46:24Beat yourself with a whip
46:25It's about
46:26As in this film
46:27It's about reconciliation
46:28Eventually
46:28He's reconciled to God
46:30He's reconciled to
46:31His brothers
46:32And he's reconciled
46:33To the community
46:34You know
46:34You grew up with asthma
46:36I knew a guy
46:37Who grew up with asthma
46:38In Glasgow
46:39And heavy cigarette culture
46:41Everybody's smoking
46:42And drinking
46:43All the time
46:43He said to me
46:44He felt like
46:45He didn't
46:46Take a full breath of air
46:47Until he moved
46:48To the United States
46:49Wow
46:50So I'm imagining
46:51Moses the Black
46:52Living this life
46:52Of a brigand
46:53In the city
46:54He probably hadn't
46:55Known a moment's peace
46:56Until he walked
46:57Through those doors
46:58Where he wasn't
46:59Watching his back
47:00Wondering who was
47:01Going to take him out
47:03Wondering where the next meal
47:04Was going to come from
47:05Or who he was going
47:06To have to
47:06Off to
47:07Live for the next month
47:08And the sense
47:10In the film
47:10Is of refuge
47:11In the deepest sense
47:12Possible
47:13When he walks
47:14Through that door
47:14But you know
47:15It's interesting Paul
47:16How many young people
47:17Feel that way today
47:18Not that they're
47:18Murdering people
47:19Or they can't breathe
47:20But who are
47:21Completely tethered
47:21To their devices
47:22Whose every waking moment
47:24Is filled with something
47:26Right
47:26Who feel uncomfortable
47:27With silence
47:28And are afraid of silence
47:29We're so wired into
47:31Our world of devices
47:32That it's very hard
47:33For people to see
47:33That one doesn't
47:34Have to live that way
47:35You don't have to live
47:35This way
47:36You can't find
47:37That separation
47:38That solace
47:39That solitude
47:40That you need
47:41That's really within you
47:42I mean I didn't realize
47:43That the monasteries
47:44Were fairly close by
47:46It was shocking
47:47To me to realize
47:48Which is a great idea
47:49You can go live
47:50Like that for a while
47:50Yeah
47:51Or at least see
47:52That there are these
47:52People out on the horizon
47:54Who are doing
47:54Something differently
47:55So you know
47:56That it's possible
47:57There's another way to live
47:58To meet crec
48:02And look
48:15You can't find
48:16So you can understand
48:17The love
48:19That it's possible
48:22To reach out
48:23And see
48:24Your family
48:25Thought
48:26Maybe
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