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Martin Scorsese Presents The Saints
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00:00These are stories of the saints.
00:30There are some stories that become so familiar to us from childhood on that, you know, we take them for granted.
00:36They become myths.
00:38They're woven into our lives.
00:40They're simply there.
00:43So if you grew up in a Christian household, the life of Mary Magdalene, pieced together from the Gospels, was one of those stories.
00:50But over the years, after the discovery of the Gospel of Mary in the late 19th century and the Gnostic Gospels in the middle of the 20th century, as well as painstaking biblical scholarship, a much richer and a more complex story emerged.
01:09Mary Magdalene, meaning Mary of Magdalene, probably lived on her own at a small fishing village on the Sea of Galilee, southwest of Capernaum.
01:29Now, she may have been a widow.
01:32She may have inherited money.
01:33She may have been a kept woman.
01:34The idea that she was a prostitute actually originated hundreds of years after her death.
01:42According to the Gospels, she was plagued by demons.
02:00Whether they were of a spiritual or physical nature.
02:04No one knows.
02:12From the street to the market!
02:15Help me, please!
02:17Head head!
02:18Help me, she's going to transfer to the market!
02:22Help me, please!
02:27Wait, yes!
02:28Rest! Rest, please!
02:30Come on, help me!
02:32Rest, please!
02:33Rest, please!
02:34Rest, please!
02:35Rest, please!
02:36Rest, please!
02:37Come on, help me!
02:38Rest, please!
02:39Rest, please!
02:40Head head!
02:45She's possessed!
02:46It's that woman!
02:48Get away!
02:49Get away!
02:50She's possessed by a demon!
02:51No one will sell it to you now, my love.
03:06Come.
03:07No one will sell it to you now, my love.
03:11Come.
03:17Come!
03:17What would I do?
03:43They'll condemn me like that woman, Hannah.
03:45They already have, my love.
03:49You can be sure of it.
03:51I don't want to be an outcast.
03:55What will become of me?
03:57You have to find someone to cast out your demons.
04:00Stop filling your head with such tales.
04:04Am I possessed?
04:09You must find someone to heal you, my love.
04:11But that's what I said.
04:13Stop with your bickering! Enough!
04:14She needs comfort.
04:16Not all the crazy hand-waving and the screaming.
04:23Eat your soup.
04:28I hear there is a man called Jesus.
04:31I hear there is a man called Jesus.
05:03Are you all right, sister?
05:29I'm all right.
05:32Jesus.
05:33It came over me so suddenly.
05:56I have no idea why.
05:59Are you ashamed of your pain?
06:01I don't know what it is.
06:08Sometimes we just don't know.
06:14There is no cause to feel shame.
06:16Is it true that you do exorcisms?
06:27How much longer will the woman stay?
06:30As long as she needs to.
06:32The woman's possessed.
06:33Everything must be seen in the light of God.
06:48What do you mean by that?
06:50I was talking to...
06:53What's your name?
06:56Mary.
06:56Mary.
06:58Mary.
07:00I was talking to Mary.
07:03Not you.
07:05Peter.
07:09We all need to see everything and everyone around us in the light of God.
07:16That includes your pain.
07:18What does that mean?
07:23He doesn't understand either.
07:32Will it lessen my pain?
07:34Everything is precious.
07:45Everything is precious.
07:49Everything that happens to us.
07:53Because it comes from God.
07:55And it is a mystery.
08:03Your pain brought you to me.
08:07And I will bear it with you.
08:15How can I have come to you?
08:20A mystery.
08:25A mystery.
08:53Hear this prayer of this child of Israel.
08:55I will.
09:25Are you tired?
09:31You must be ready to sleep.
09:36Your soul keeps me alert.
09:55If you can't walk, you will.
10:02I will.
10:03I will.
10:05Batch of the day.
10:35Four more for dinner tonight.
10:42Are you stealing pain?
10:47I am.
10:48But I live with it.
11:00I didn't really understand you.
11:02Then ask me.
11:05The shy ones, people who don't speak, who go about their lives.
11:08One day the world will be theirs.
11:10That's more or less what you said, isn't it?
11:12Yes.
11:13So what could that possibly mean that the world will be theirs?
11:16It certainly can't mean they'll be ruling over us from Rome.
11:19Or that they'll take our boats.
11:21Or my wife.
11:22Since you know what I didn't mean, then you might know what I did.
11:31I understand what you said about getting yourself in order before criticizing your neighbor.
11:35Or offering the other cheek to hit.
11:37Or causing rage when you speak your mind.
11:40But this other lesson?
11:42These quiet people owning the world?
11:44Ruling the world one day?
11:45You really think that's what he meant?
11:47Will they have power conferred on them by God?
11:50Because when they do, how could they still be shy and simple?
11:54Mary.
11:55Sit by me.
12:02What are you doing inviting a woman to sit with us?
12:05What do you think, Mary?
12:17I think you meant that the silent ones.
12:22The shy ones.
12:24The ones who feel like they don't have the right to ask for anything.
12:28That they don't deserve anything.
12:35When we all accept God.
12:38When all our vanity is gone.
12:41And we look each other in the eye and see ourselves.
12:44Then those meek ones will be free.
12:47You see?
12:51And they'll already know what the rest of us will learn.
12:54That the whole world is ours, but no one owns it.
13:05I've lived alone for many years now.
13:14And I've kept my own house.
13:17And I've learned as much of scripture as I could.
13:20But you're now the center of my life.
13:21You see?
13:22Instantly.
13:23Like a flash of light.
13:24And you're now the center of my life.
13:25You see?
13:26Instantly.
13:27Like a flash of light.
13:49Even if I didn't live a life with so much solitude,
14:03even if I'd come to you without any ailments at all,
14:08even if you didn't listen to me when I speak,
14:12I would still stand by your side.
14:16Because only you speak clearly.
14:19Only you see this world clearly.
14:24See beyond it.
14:28Only you.
14:37Jesus and his disciples traveled to the political and spiritual
14:41heart of the Jewish world during Passover,
14:44one of the holiest festivals of the year,
14:46to proclaim his message openly and in public.
14:51What's he doing?
14:58That's all the mute.
15:00What's he doing?
15:02That's all the mute.
15:03He's five, he's five.
15:04What's he doing?
15:05He's five.
15:06What's he doing?
15:07His disciples are fighting me.
15:08He's five.
15:09He's five.
15:10Oh, my God.
15:11He's five.
15:12He's five.
15:13He's five.
15:14And I'm nine.
15:15And you're six.
15:16He's five.
15:17And I'm here.
15:18He's five.
15:19And you're six.
15:20God.
15:21This is the same.
15:22Blessing on you, brother.
15:43Jesus of Nazareth.
15:48You're healing on the Sabbath?
15:50Yes.
15:51That's exactly what I'm doing.
15:53On the Sabbath, what do we do?
15:57Devote ourselves to God.
16:00Rest and refresh ourselves as God did after He created this world.
16:06Yes.
16:08And for the lame, the blind, the crippled, the diseased, all the afflicted, what about them?
16:20Are they able to rest when they are hungry and lonely and turned out to beg for their food and their drink and their shelter?
16:34No.
16:35So, what is the best way to devote ourselves to God on the Sabbath?
16:44To put on pious airs and ignore the people who are suffering or to be with them and help them?
16:55Listen to this man at your peril.
16:58He knows scripture, but he twists it and he turns it out to suit his own ends.
17:04Which could very well be the ends of Satan.
17:07Why would God need to impress you all?
17:13It's not trickery at all.
17:15It's not trickery at all.
17:16Listen to me.
17:20Every sin can be forgiven.
17:25Every sin committed under the sun on this earth.
17:29But the ones who insist on following the letter of the law to the point where they've abandoned the spirit of God, they are the blasphemers.
17:39Outrageous!
17:40This man is dangerous.
17:41He is doing the work of the devil among you.
17:42Not the afflicted, the Romans.
17:43He and all his followers.
17:44Go, go, go.
17:45I feel the time is running out.
17:58Do you?
18:03You know my life.
18:06There is not a moment I can remember that doesn't feel like a miracle.
18:11The sorrows and the pain.
18:14The terrors I felt.
18:17Everything.
18:20Yes.
18:22Well, I've come to feel that way because of you.
18:25I wish that for the others.
18:27But I think they have to find that for themselves.
18:30In their own time.
18:41You understand that I have to die.
18:44Don't you?
18:48I do.
18:54I have to cry for you, my beloved companion.
19:00But I know, my soul, what you have to do.
19:04And what you will do.
19:06And where you'll go.
19:11You're my joy.
19:32What are you saying?
19:34Look, the Romans are the ones we need to worry about.
19:36Not the Pharisees or the Sadducees or Herod.
19:39Herod had the Baptist killed, didn't he?
19:41Why do we have to worry about any of it?
19:43Isn't that exactly the point that the Master is making?
19:45If you're all taken captive by the Romans,
19:47then there won't be a message to spread.
19:52Woman!
19:53Those oils are expensive.
19:55She's doing me a service.
19:57What service?
19:59She's preparing me for burial.
20:07Mother.
20:08My hour has not come yet.
20:14But I've told you that I will die.
20:18And I know that one of you will betray me.
20:22One of us?
20:24Any of you accept Mary.
20:27This Mary.
20:29It's always Mary.
20:31Why do you trust her so much and not us?
20:34It's not trust.
20:36She knows in her heart what is so difficult for the rest of you to understand.
20:40I think it's because you favor her in a way that's unseemly.
20:45Mary is a tower of strength.
20:49She sees clearly and listens clearly.
20:55That's all.
20:56That's all.
21:26My body.
21:40And my blood.
21:45Eat and drink to remember me.
21:50To bring me into your hearts.
21:52You are in our hearts.
21:54You are in our hearts.
21:56To let me live there.
21:59Always.
22:03Live and grow.
22:04Live and grow.
22:35I'll see you again in the new life.
22:37Yes, Master.
22:40In the new life.
23:04If you don't know, you are going to be embarrassed.
23:06Give me a smile.
23:08You are a girl.
23:10You are a girl.
23:12I'm sorry.
23:14You are a girl.
23:15I'm sorry.
23:17You are the only one.
23:18Will you?
23:20Yes.
23:21I'm sorry.
23:23I'm sorry.
23:25I'm sorry.
23:27You are not.
23:29To the end of this morning.
23:30I won't be here.
24:01You are my companion, now and always.
24:23You told me that you would be back among us, and so I will wait for you.
24:31Patiently.
24:33You are the light of this world.
24:47And you touched us and passed the light to us.
24:56And I made a promise to you that I would help the others.
24:59That I would speak until they listened.
25:02But I would light this world as I go, soul by soul.
25:09And so I will.
25:14And so I will.
25:16So I will.
25:21So I will.
25:23So I will.
26:09...
26:11...
26:19.
26:21...
26:23.
26:26.
26:28.
26:32...
26:36They've taken him.
26:54No.
26:55Mom, come back.
26:56No.
27:06Why are you crying?
27:18Who are you?
27:21Mary.
27:25I told you I would come back.
27:28Yes.
27:31You did.
27:34Now you must go and tell the others.
27:36Yes.
27:49I will.
27:51Go and tell them.
27:53And keep telling them until they understand.
27:58Now, turn and go.
28:02And remember.
28:05Remember, I'll always be with you.
28:08He's returned to us.
28:29I saw him with my own eyes.
28:30Nothing is the same now.
28:38We have to spread the word.
28:41He was given to me.
28:43To deliver into this world.
28:46It had to be someone.
28:47It was me.
28:49It was me.
28:50He was my son.
28:51After Jesus' death, his followers were persecuted by the Romans for spreading a so-called dangerous message.
29:08And the apostles couldn't safely meet in public without fearing for their lives.
29:13In fact, many of them would ultimately be martyred by the Romans.
29:16I saw him.
29:20I have seen the Lord.
29:21Woman, your grief misleads you.
29:24What I say is true.
29:26He told me to tell you.
29:27To tell everyone.
29:28Stop with your idle tales.
29:29He told me not to cling to him because he hasn't yet ascended to his father.
29:33To our father.
29:34Then all we can do now is remember him as he was.
29:37As he is.
29:37Everyone.
29:42We'll take these moments to remember our beloved friend.
29:47Who taught us and guided us to another way.
29:54A righteous life.
29:56He did not believe in laws.
29:59But he was a righteous Jew.
30:01That's why we stood by him.
30:02He spoke to me of what plagues and afflicts us within ourselves in this life.
30:10The deceits that do violence to the soul.
30:14Desire.
30:16The kingdom of the flesh.
30:18The folly of the flesh.
30:21Ignorance.
30:22Darkness.
30:24Wisdom born from anger.
30:26Which really isn't wisdom at all.
30:28And death.
30:34You see these come to the soul and hover.
30:37They appear before her like ghosts in the darkness and accuse her.
30:43And he told me that the soul stays still.
30:45Like a watchman.
30:47And speaks simply.
30:49And says.
30:52Whatever claims to seize me.
30:55Is killed dead.
30:56Whatever turns me inside out is overcome.
31:03My desire has come to an end.
31:08My ignorance is dead.
31:14In a world, I was saved from a world.
31:19And I was saved from the impotence of knowledge, which dies away and ends.
31:33From this time on, here and now, I will find rest in the interval of the moment of the eon.
31:40In my silence, this is what he told me.
31:43We can speak more of this because it can't all be absorbed at once.
31:52But you absorbed it instantly.
31:56Of course.
31:58Because he always spoke secretly to you, but not in the open with us.
32:01Peter, why are you always angry?
32:02What do we do?
32:03Just sit here and listen to her because he preferred her to us?
32:06If Jesus made her worthy, then who are you to reject her?
32:09Now she says she saw him in the flesh.
32:12Do you think I'm lying?
32:14I don't.
32:15And neither do most of the people in this house.
32:17We should all be proclaiming the gospel that they gave us.
32:20And remembering his words as well as you do, Sister Mary.
32:23They'll bring you through the strait and up to Sidon.
32:34Philip is there.
32:36And so is Sarah.
32:38Goodbye, sister.
32:42Beloved sister.
32:44Goodbye, my brother.
32:45Brother Peter.
32:53I must tell you something, and you must listen.
32:58Abandon the jealousy in your heart.
33:02I'm telling you, you must stop imagining that you stood by him.
33:06He knew you would deny him.
33:07Woman, who are you?
33:07Brother Peter.
33:09He loved you, and I love you.
33:11And I'm not speaking in vengeance or recrimination.
33:16We must love all of what we've done.
33:19Our cowardly acts, most of all.
33:21They're given to us by God.
33:25And so is our ability to see them and set them aside.
33:30You see?
33:33Peter.
33:38You and I have a bond of love through him.
33:43And it can never be broken.
33:49What will I do without you, Mary?
33:51He'll stand up and proclaim his gospel to the world.
34:01And I'll do the same.
34:04In any way I can.
34:06Wherever I can.
34:08Every day of my life.
34:09You and I, I'll stand up and see for the world.
34:11What am I going to do?
34:12Never will I, maybe?
34:22I don't know.
34:24Okay.
34:30All right.
34:30Let's see.
34:30It is said that Mary escaped on a boat that made its way through stormy seas and was miraculously
34:58guided to what is now Provence in the south of France, and that she lived on food brought
35:07to her by angels.
35:08Who's that?
35:10Are you the woman called Mary?
35:16I am Mary.
35:20Who knew Jesus of Nazareth?
35:23Come in.
35:30Sit.
35:32I've come because I long to know the thoughts of Jesus of Nazareth on certain matters.
35:39People say that you knew him best.
35:41What certain matters?
35:43Life, death, everything.
35:48You've had other people asking you the same kinds of questions?
35:51Many.
35:52Yes, many.
35:53And I remember all of you.
35:56I think of you often.
35:58Drink.
36:00Is it possible to ask, to know, what do we do in this life, Sister Mary?
36:15How do we rise above the tangle of this life, all this confusion?
36:19We don't.
36:20We don't.
36:21They say he did.
36:22Oh no.
36:23There was only one of him, and he died for all of us.
36:26They say he returned.
36:27And he never left us.
36:28He's always among us.
36:29I see.
36:30No, you don't.
36:31How could you?
36:32You have to live it.
36:37Life is not to be transcended.
36:39It is to be lived and embraced.
36:40Every mistake, every sin, sin itself doesn't exist.
36:46We make it.
36:47That he taught me and showed me.
36:53Gave me.
36:54And all we can do is to see it and acknowledge it.
37:00In the light of it.
37:01And all we can do is to see it and acknowledge it, in the light of it.
37:28Sister Mary, in the light of what?
37:48Love.
37:53Pure love.
37:56Safety.
37:57Story is my life.
38:06It has been done.
38:09Anyway, we we are at coal for 25 years.
38:12The only thing you do is thismer of their lives, does the life.
38:23So, in Mary Magdalene, like John the Baptist, there's very, very little about Mary in the Gospels.
38:45But, of course, we have the Gnostic Gospels, and we have the Gospel of Mary.
38:49So, for this episode, we've used those and other sources to, in a sense, dramatize a life of Mary Magdalene.
38:59It's just a general question about what does it mean to add detail and dramatic complication to the lives of people from the Gospels?
39:09I think to be clear about what's there in the Gospels and what's added.
39:14To add that sort of piously and to imagine those things, I think, helps us understand her as a real person.
39:19But I would say there's plenty in the Gospels to show us what an extraordinary character Mary Magdalene really was.
39:25What he said, but also, I think it's worth keeping in mind how the act of filling in the blanks imaginatively goes all the way back in Christian history.
39:36The earliest images of Jesus, he had no beard.
39:39Right.
39:40If you look at Fra Angelico, the Annunciation's happening in a building that looks like it was in 14th century Florence.
39:45So, that imaginative act is as old and as basic to Christianity as can be.
39:51I think there's a danger, though.
39:53You know, Pope Gregory, I think, conflated Mary Magdalene with the woman caught in adultery.
39:58And so, for years and years, centuries, people, unfortunately, thought that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute.
40:04So, I think that shows the danger of, you know, what happens when we get too far away from the Gospels.
40:08And that's really, I think, tarred her reputation.
40:11For me, the most important thing about Mary Magdalene is that between the time that she sees the risen Christ at the tomb
40:19and the time when she announces, as we see in this film, the good news to the disciples on Easter Sunday, she is the church on earth, in a sense.
40:26That's right.
40:27I mean, she's the only one that understands the story of the resurrection.
40:30And so, I think that's the greatest part of her story, that for that time period, she's the church until she announces it to the rest of the disciples.
40:40No, it's phenomenal.
40:41And the interesting thing to me, or I always think of the, we first see her, right, when she's afflicted, that she's, you know, inhabited by seven demons.
40:53But those demons might have been a physical affliction.
40:56Sure.
40:57She might have had endometriosis.
40:58She might have had, you know, some pelvic pain or something that we, people think of as dirty and evil or being associated with your girl parts.
41:08We tend to think of her, unfortunately, as, you know, in a sense, possessed, which I don't think she was.
41:13In those times, the demonic was associated often with illness.
41:17And so, he could have cured her from illnesses.
41:19And how, if she's the apostle to the apostles, why is she not an apostle?
41:24Well, I mean, in a sense, she is an apostle.
41:26She's someone who's sent out by Jesus, right, the risen one, to announce the good news.
41:30Apostle means someone who is sent.
41:32And she is at the cross, you know, with the beloved disciple and Mary.
41:35And also, you know, what I love in John's Gospel, the first thing, and it's in the Easter reading, in the Mass,
41:40the first thing she says to the disciples is, I have seen the Lord.
41:45Well, it's very simple, right?
41:46And it's also what the believer says to people, right?
41:50People who have experienced God in their lives, that's Mary Magdalene's words.
41:53I've seen the Lord, right?
41:54I've experienced God.
41:55It's just such a great, pithy announcement of the good news.
42:00And then there's the fact that she's running.
42:03She's running.
42:04So she goes and finds the tomb empty, and she runs.
42:07Something that she didn't expect to see, she has seen, and she's hightailing it back to town to tell them.
42:12Yeah, and in some of the Gospels, it's dismissed as, I think it's in Luke, as leros, nonsense, because women...
42:19Nonsense, because women are...
42:22Less reliable.
42:23I mean, as described in the Gospels, at least the disciples, the ones who were gathered, didn't believe a lot of the women, right?
42:30And I think for Jesus to appear to a woman among the disciples was quite challenging.
42:37And I really do think that any discussion of women's roles in the Church has to start with this fact,
42:42that it was Mary Magdalene to whom the risen Christ appeared, not one of the men.
42:46And he could have appeared to whomever he chose.
42:48But also that they're arguing with her that he loved her more than us, and she spoke to him more,
42:57and he gave her this special spiritual instruction because the other apostles were not ready for it.
43:05They were not evolved enough for it.
43:07Well, and she's threatening to people throughout history.
43:09I think that's one of the reasons she is consigned to be a prostitute,
43:12because the idea of a powerful woman, you know, who was, in a sense, the equal to the apostles almost.
43:18Or superior.
43:19Or superior.
43:20And then she might be just married to Jesus.
43:23That's recent, right, that she was married to Jesus.
43:26And I also think that's kind of a diminution of her role.
43:29Like, she doesn't need to be Mrs. Jesus.
43:31All that you're saying just registers how strong the bias against women was and remains,
43:38which then makes the presence of Mary in the gospel so extraordinary.
43:42Yes.
43:43These other guys, they've got their roles and they're rivalrous,
43:46but they're especially rivalrous with her because she gets him.
43:50We all know from our own lives that when somebody gets somebody else,
43:53their rivalry and envy follows on that.
43:56I also, in Last Semptation of Christ, depict Mary as the prostitute based on the book, of course.
44:03When I was getting the Last Supper together, it was Barbara Hershey and Peggy Gormley
44:08and a number of others, and they're serving.
44:10And they looked at me and they said,
44:11you don't think we're just going to serve and not sit down?
44:14I said, you're right.
44:17You're the guys up on Golgotha with him,
44:19and whenever we get to shoot that scene, what was I thinking?
44:23Of course, sit down.
44:24The women are more faithful than the men are.
44:26Yes.
44:27And one of the things that was really striking to me about this film
44:30is the way one of the blanks that's been filled in is how Mary Magdalene lived.
44:34We see her living alone early on,
44:37and then much later, we see her as a much older woman living alone.
44:42And in both cases, she's kind of a model for the contemplative or holy person
44:46in a way that transcends one religious tradition
44:49that's recognizable to Christians, to Buddhists, to Jews, to Muslims,
44:54and is surprising because we're used to seeing the apostles all kind of as a group.
45:00And so those two images, Mary living alone as a relatively young person,
45:05and then Mary much older, almost like a figure for the desert fathers and mothers,
45:10really opened up her story to me in a new way.
45:14Imagine encountering the risen Christ by whom all accounts
45:17it was very difficult to understand who he was, who he was, what he looked like,
45:21she mistook him for the gardener, and telling that story for the rest of her life,
45:25which I think is one reason why we can really see her, as you were saying,
45:29as kind of a fulcrum between the life of Christ and really what you would say the life of the church,
45:35you know, which is all about us all talking about how we have seen the Lord.
45:40That's beautiful, Jim. You ought to do this for a living.
45:45Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
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