Crown Court - The Family Business (1977) - video Dailymotion

Jezza

Crown Court - The Family Business. A brother and sister are on trial - the brother for stealing a bolt of cotton and the sister for attacking someone using a pair of scissors. Richard Caldicot and George A. Cooper star.

Transcript

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00:00:05..

00:00:08Frankly, if Dennis doesn't explain where it came to you,

00:00:12you may as well plead guilty and give them a dull way.

00:00:15There is an additional reason for pleading guilty,

00:00:18and that is that your case is listed before Judge Ryder.

00:00:20Is he the one that called Billy the Boveboy? The vicious one?

00:00:24Er, yes. He doesn't like acquittals,

00:00:27and he doubles the sentence for people who plead not guilty.

00:00:30That bloke over there said that we had Judge Barking Man.

00:00:33Did he?

00:00:35I don't think that is the case.

00:00:38Either way, if you don't give a proper explanation as to where you got it, you're doomed.

00:00:43Today at Fulchester Crown Court, a brother and sister are to stand trial together.

00:00:47The jury is selected from members of the public, whose names appear on the electoral register.

00:01:02There seems to be some mistaking, Your Excellency.

00:01:05Your name's Patel, isn't it?

00:01:07Yes, Your Excellency, but I am not Nevlika Patel.

00:01:11Aren't you one of the Barrow Boys?

00:01:13No, Your Excellency.

00:01:14What are you doing here?

00:01:15I am appealing against disqualification, Your Excellency.

00:01:19Oh, dear, sit him in.

00:01:20He should be in Judge Barking School. Show him what it is, will you, my sir?

00:01:23Well, where are the Barrow Boys? Doesn't anyone know?

00:01:26We're here.

00:01:27What does that woman want? Will someone tell her to stop interrupting?

00:01:29That is my client, Your Honour. One of my clients.

00:01:33I thought the accused were Barrow Boys.

00:01:36Yes, they are, Your Honour.

00:01:37I see. Well, why aren't they in the cells?

00:01:40Haven't they surrendered to their bail?

00:01:41Well, there was a salutary experience for accused persons to see what a cell looks like before they come up to plead.

00:01:47And why is he being tried here? He should be tried in a juvenile court.

00:01:50Because he's jointly indicted with an adult, Your Honour, his sister.

00:01:54I see.

00:01:55Case is listed for three days.

00:01:57Yes, Your Honour.

00:01:59Pleased of not guilty.

00:02:01Very well, let's get on.

00:02:02So, Mr. Peck, the Patel's family stall is also in Market Street.

00:02:08Right outside the door of our shop.

00:02:09And for how long has that been the situation?

00:02:12We've had those premises since my father took them over in 1933.

00:02:15But they've had that stall for, well...

00:02:19A number of years.

00:02:20Oh, must be five years at least.

00:02:21You see, they were already there in 1971 when the new Immigration Act came in.

00:02:25You can say five years safely.

00:02:27And do they sell the same goods as you do?

00:02:29No, they just do fabrics.

00:02:30We do all kinds of household stuff.

00:02:33Including fabrics?

00:02:35Yes, but when you say fabrics, we do a bit more than is usual in the furnishing shop.

00:02:38You see, we do fashion fabrics as well as the household stuff.

00:02:41And dressmaking material as well as, say, curtain material.

00:02:44Yes.

00:02:45Now, how long have you known the Patel family?

00:02:48Oh, I've known the father since he first came over here.

00:02:52That must be seven or more years ago.

00:02:54And Navlika and Dinesh there, they came with him.

00:02:56But Mrs Patel, she's only been over here for two years.

00:03:00And she came with another two kids.

00:03:01So there's four kids in all.

00:03:03Now, Mr Patel, of course, died in a road accident last year in April, I believe.

00:03:07Yes.

00:03:07And since then, has the business been carried on by the two accused?

00:03:10Yeah, well, Mr Patel did have an assistant, Mukherjee, who was deported.

00:03:15That was before Mr Patel died.

00:03:17Illegal immigrant.

00:03:18You mean the boy there helps their full time, doesn't he, go to school?

00:03:22Always in that market, more often than not.

00:03:24I mean, that's their way, isn't it? Child labour, you can't compete.

00:03:28And what about Mrs Patel, doesn't she help in the store?

00:03:31No, she stays at home with the younger ones.

00:03:33She doesn't speak any English, Your Honour.

00:03:35I see, thank you.

00:03:36Yes, Mr. Sussman.

00:03:37After Mr Patel set up his store outside your shop, did you have cause to complain from time to time?

00:03:43I did.

00:03:44Not just because he set up in competition with you?

00:03:47Oh, no, you know, don't get me wrong.

00:03:48I don't mind competition, if it is fair.

00:03:50You see, there's lots of other shops in Fulchester doing similar lines as we do.

00:03:54Well, OK, that's business.

00:03:56What I couldn't stomach about the late Mr Patel was his methods.

00:03:59Which what?

00:04:01Well, you see, don't get me wrong on this.

00:04:03I'm not one of those who goes for tarring all immigrants, you know, with the same brush.

00:04:08When I met Mr Patel, I had a completely open mind.

00:04:12And you see, there's two ways of looking at these immigrants, isn't there?

00:04:15First thing is, all credit is due to them for pulling themselves together and getting out of India,

00:04:20which, let's face it, is a stinking hole.

00:04:22And I know what I'm talking about because I was stationed there during the war,

00:04:25and I wasn't sorry to turn my backside in it, I can tell you.

00:04:28And let's be fair, it takes a lot of guts to go to a new country where you don't even speak the language.

00:04:37But then, you see, you say, all right, if they come over here, they ought to mix in with the community.

00:04:42Live like the rest of us, stick to the rules and regulations.

00:04:44I mean, the law is the law.

00:04:45I want to know the methods you didn't like, Mr Pegg.

00:04:48What were they?

00:04:49Well, one, I set it up a stall right outside my blooming door.

00:04:54Two, I come out one day, and there's a notice up.

00:04:57Anything at Pegg's is cheaper here, which wasn't true for a start.

00:05:01Another time, he got a notice chalked up on the wall.

00:05:03You pay more at Pegg's.

00:05:05But you see, when he did undercut, and he did, it was because they didn't have the overheads.

00:05:11No staff.

00:05:12And he always dealt in cash, if you know what I mean.

00:05:14And there's another thing about these immigrants.

00:05:16They always set themselves a lower standard of living, so they can afford to cut the profit margins.

00:05:22You know what I mean?

00:05:23Two families living where there only should be one.

00:05:26Living on rice and vegetables instead of buying meat.

00:05:29You can't compete with that sort of thing.

00:05:31See, even when they're playing it straight, which, half the time, in fact, I'd say more than half the time, they're not.

00:05:37Yes, I see. Thank you.

00:05:39Mr Pegg, what were the specific matters of which you complained?

00:05:43Well, breaking the law, misdescription of fabrics, short measure, you see, that's the Trae's Description Act.

00:05:50Employing children, contrary to the Children and Young Persons Act.

00:05:54Those were the matters of which you complained to the police, and which resulted in Mr Patel being prosecuted and convicted in the magistrate's court.

00:06:00Yes, three convictions under the Trae's Description Act, and one for employing the nipper there.

00:06:05Now, did you conceal the fact that you were the instigator of these prosecutions?

00:06:09No, why should I?

00:06:10Then how did Mr Patel react?

00:06:11Well, it was also saying, we used to say, I'm not moving, Mr Pegg.

00:06:16And I used to say, well, that is your privilege, Mr Ibrim, but once you step over that line and break the law, then I shall have you for breakfast.

00:06:24I mean, it became a bit of a joke in the end.

00:06:28And did either of the accused ever say anything to you about these matters?

00:06:30Oh, not much she didn't.

00:06:33Nivlika there, she said that she would see that I paid her father's fine.

00:06:38She said that you would pay her father's fines.

00:06:42Did she explain how?

00:06:43No, Your Honour.

00:06:44And the nipper there, he's a cheeky monkey he is.

00:06:47He used to call me Mr Plod.

00:06:48He once gave me a policeman's helmet.

00:06:49I mean, you've got to laugh.

00:06:52Now, Mr Pegg, you say that Mr Patel was killed in April last year?

00:06:55Yeah, about that.

00:06:56I'm not quite sure, to be honest.

00:06:58Well, was it before or after your summer holiday?

00:07:00Oh, we didn't have one last year.

00:07:01We went on a cruise at Christmas instead.

00:07:04Yes, well, never mind.

00:07:05The precise date is not important.

00:07:07Now, did you notice anything about the Patel's stall after Mr Patel's death?

00:07:11Yeah, their stock was running down.

00:07:13Indicating that their business wasn't doing so well?

00:07:15No, most probably, yes.

00:07:16Can you tell us what sort of a profit could be made out of a stall like that?

00:07:19Enough to keep a family of six?

00:07:21No, I couldn't, Your Honour.

00:07:22And neither could the Indian revenue.

00:07:24Do you know, I know people who lose the same number of sales docket right off the same

00:07:31amount of material as lost or damaged year after year, and the Indian revenue never

00:07:35says a thing.

00:07:36I've always said, if a retailer wants to cheat the revenue, it is a piece of cake.

00:07:40Yes, Mr Pegg.

00:07:41Very interesting, I'm sure.

00:07:43Mr Sisson.

00:07:44Now, to come to matters of immediate concern.

00:07:47Do you recall the events of Tuesday, November the 30th, last year?

00:07:51Well, of course I do.

00:07:52My wife saw the nipper.

00:07:53No, no, no, you must only tell us what you yourself saw or heard.

00:07:57Now, did your wife tell you something?

00:07:59Don't tell us if she did.

00:08:01Can I get this straight?

00:08:02Mr Sisson, it is quite in order for Mr Pegg to narrate what his wife told him.

00:08:07It is part of the re's jesting.

00:08:09What did your wife do?

00:08:11What were her exact words?

00:08:13She said, Henry, come quick, the packy boy has pinched a roll of cotton.

00:08:18Well, I mean, they're not packies, really, but she doesn't know any better.

00:08:21Now, what time was this?

00:08:22About 11 o'clock in the morning.

00:08:23So what did you do?

00:08:25Well, I ran out into the street and, sure enough, there it was, on their stall.

00:08:29You didn't see it being taken from your shop?

00:08:31No, I was in the office.

00:08:32So how can you be certain that the accused did get the cloth from your shop and not from elsewhere?

00:08:36Well, my wife saw the nipper...

00:08:38No, no, no.

00:08:38What I mean is, was there anything on the cloth to show that it must have come from your shop?

00:08:43Well, there wasn't any of our labors on it or anything like that, if that's what you mean.

00:08:46But we've got proof all the same, although I have been told it is something I can't say here today.

00:08:52It's the hearsay rule, isn't it?

00:08:54It is indeed, Mr. Plague.

00:08:57Now, when you saw the roll of fabric on the accused's stall, what did you do?

00:09:01Well, I grabbed all of it to take it back.

00:09:04The nipper there grabbed the other end and then Naflika came over.

00:09:06And did either of them say anything?

00:09:08Not then they didn't.

00:09:09So they didn't protest that the roll of cotton was there?

00:09:12No, Your Honour.

00:09:12But there was a struggle over this roll of cotton.

00:09:15Well, they were holding on to it and I was trying to take it back.

00:09:18And then what happened?

00:09:18Well, did you feel something?

00:09:21Oh, yes.

00:09:22I felt something cold.

00:09:24Could you be more specific?

00:09:26All right, then.

00:09:27I felt as if someone had stuck three inches of cold steel into me guts.

00:09:32And did you look to see what was causing this sensation?

00:09:34Well, of course I did.

00:09:35I don't get pains like that every day and I've not made of rubber.

00:09:38And what did you see?

00:09:39Well, I saw that someone had stuck three inches of cold steel into me guts.

00:09:43Who had?

00:09:44Naflika there.

00:09:45She did.

00:09:45Miss Patel, the accused?

00:09:47Yes.

00:09:47And at that moment, did either of the accused say anything?

00:09:51Yes, she did.

00:09:52How close were you to her when she spoke?

00:09:54Well, she got hold of one end of whatever it was and I was stuck on the other end of it.

00:09:59I mean, there's no mistaking about that.

00:10:01And what did she say?

00:10:02She said that the British are not the only ones who know how to stick pigs.

00:10:06The British aren't the only ones who know how to stick pigs.

00:10:12Those are the very words she used.

00:10:14They are, Your Honour.

00:10:17Well, I did a few jumps in myself with a bayonet during the war.

00:10:27Now I know how they felt.

00:10:28Yes, Mr. Pegg, but on this occasion, what did you do?

00:10:33I grabbed all of her wrists and pulled it out.

00:10:35And did you then see with what it was you had been stabbed?

00:10:38Yes.

00:10:39A pair of scissors.

00:10:40Shall we look at the exhibits now, Mr. Sissons?

00:10:42Very well, Your Honour.

00:10:43Usher, will you show Mr. Pegg the bale of cotton, Exhibit One?

00:10:47Usher.

00:10:48Oh, sorry.

00:10:48I was in a dream.

00:10:54Now, is that the bale of cotton which was stolen from your shop and which you later tried to recover?

00:10:58Yes.

00:10:59And those stains on the cloth, are they your blood?

00:11:01Yes, Your Honour.

00:11:02Two pints of it, the doctor said.

00:11:03Oh, I just want to make a note of that.

00:11:05As a result of being stabbed by Miss Patel, I lost two pints of blood.

00:11:12Is that right?

00:11:13Yes, Your Honour.

00:11:14I see, thank you.

00:11:15Now, the weapon, Mr. Sissons?

00:11:16Yes, Your Honour.

00:11:17Would you show Mr. Pegg Exhibit Two?

00:11:22Are those the scissors with which you were stabbed?

00:11:24Yes, and you can see my blood on these, too.

00:11:27May I see them, please?

00:11:29Did both blades go into you when you were stabbed, Mr. Pegg, or only one?

00:11:32Only the one, Your Honour.

00:11:33Ah, so the scissors were open when you were stabbed.

00:11:35And when I pulled them out, Your Honour.

00:11:37Yes, I see.

00:11:38Hmm.

00:11:39Yes, they are remarkably sharp, Mr. Sissons.

00:11:42You're not calling expert evidence as to whether these scissors are sharper than is necessary for the cutting of cloth?

00:11:48No, Your Honour.

00:11:49You get the point, members of the jury.

00:11:51If they were excessively sharp, it might indicate that they had been sharpened for some reason other than for the cutting of fabric for use as a weapon.

00:11:59Your Honour, I really must object.

00:12:02Mr. Pegg did not even feel the cutting edges of the scissors when he looked at them just now.

00:12:05But I think he did.

00:12:06Well, I did not see him do it.

00:12:09In any case, Mr. Lawton, he did feel how sharp they were when he was stabbed by them, didn't he?

00:12:14If you wish to call your own evidence on that point, you may.

00:12:17Now let us get on, Mr. Sissons.

00:12:19Mr. Pegg, I believe that after the stabbing, someone telephoned an ambulance and you were taken to the hospital.

00:12:24I've soon got over it.

00:12:25Thank you, Mr. Pegg.

00:12:26Would you stay there, please?

00:12:31Mr. Pegg, your feelings for the Patel family are 100% hostile, are they not?

00:12:37Now, look, when their father first came over here, he rented a flat from me.

00:12:42So it's no use you trying to stick the old racial prejudice thing onto me.

00:12:46And that was before the 1974 Rent Act, when you could afford to let a flat, as long as it was furnished.

00:12:52And I remember thinking then, good luck to him.

00:12:55You see, the two kiddies there, they were only, you know, teeny-weenies then.

00:13:00And let's be fair, he worked hard.

00:13:02And I say, good luck to anyone who's prepared to work.

00:13:05The next thing I know is he set up his stall right outside my shop, where he can catch our customers.

00:13:12He's selling the same things as we do, and he's using unfair competition.

00:13:15So you commenced a campaign of harassment and persecution, of which this trial is just the most recent feature.

00:13:21Harassment? I only tried to see that he's stuck to some points in the law.

00:13:26What were the facts of the convictions you've told us about, Mr. Pegg?

00:13:29Oh, the usual thing, Your Honour, calling things what they weren't, like 100% cotton when it's more like 50%,

00:13:35or 20p off recommended retail price, where he's actually charging more.

00:13:40Short measures, oh.

00:13:41What about the other offence, child labour?

00:13:43Oh, that was everything in the book.

00:13:46Employing the nipper there, out of school hours, that's before 7 o'clock in the morning, and after 7 o'clock at night.

00:13:52Employing him for more than two hours in any one school day.

00:13:55I mean, you name it, he did it.

00:13:56The sky's the limit.

00:13:57I see, thank you.

00:13:58Mr. Pegg, the prosecutions which you've just told us about led to the imposition on Mr. Patel of fines amounting to over 500 pounds.

00:14:07Money Mr. Patel, as you knew, badly needed to bring his wife and young children from India.

00:14:12Mr. Pegg was only doing what is the right and proper duty of any citizen, to report a law-breaking.

00:14:19Pass on to another point.

00:14:21Very well, Your Honour.

00:14:23It's correct, is it not, Mr. Pegg, that you tried to get up a petition requesting the council to expel Mr. Patel from the market?

00:14:31No, I did not.

00:14:32I asked the council to make him move, and it beats me while they never did.

00:14:36If they had have done, none of this would ever have happened.

00:14:39All right, then.

00:14:39I signed the petition, but it was not my idea.

00:14:42What happened to the petition?

00:14:43Well, it didn't get enough signatures, Your Honour.

00:14:45Somebody let the cat out of the bag, and he nobbled every one before they could sign it,

00:14:50and there wasn't anyone in that market who didn't have a pair of new curtains, courtesy of Ibrahim.

00:14:55The convictions you've told us about weren't the only prosecutions instigated by you, were they, Mr. Pegg?

00:15:00Be specific, Mr. Lawton.

00:15:03In 1972, Mr. Patel was unsuccessfully prosecuted for obstruction under the Highways Act, wasn't he?

00:15:09I believe he was, yes.

00:15:11And you instigated that prosecution, did you not?

00:15:13No, I did not.

00:15:15Look, I get my facts right.

00:15:16Market Street, you know, is not a public road, and now I've known that since I was that high.

00:15:20My father told me that.

00:15:221973.

00:15:23You've got a son called Tommy, haven't you?

00:15:25And another son, Johnny.

00:15:27Yes.

00:15:28Respectively two and four years older than Danish Patel here.

00:15:31About that, yes.

00:15:32In 1973, Danish Patel was beaten up at school by your boys, wasn't he?

00:15:37Look, that was nothing personal.

00:15:40That was just them in a gang, you know what kids are like, and I had them up for that.

00:15:44Nothing personal, you say?

00:15:47Did not your children also smear fat over the Patels' front door handle?

00:15:51What kind of fat?

00:15:52Cow fat, Your Honour.

00:15:53The Patels are Hindu and would regard themselves as defiled if they touched such fat.

00:15:58That was not my children.

00:15:59The police told me that.

00:16:00Mr. Lawton, can't you get on to the theft and stabbing?

00:16:03The alleged theft and the alleged stabbing, Your Honour.

00:16:06That is what I meant.

00:16:09Yes, Your Honour, very shortly.

00:16:11Mr. Pegg, there were also the repeated anonymous telephone threats to the Patels' home.

00:16:16You were responsible for those, were you not?

00:16:18No, they told the police it was me.

00:16:20And I had to go down to the station to see them about it.

00:16:23It was nothing to do with me.

00:16:24You talk about harassment.

00:16:26I was down there for four hours with the station sergeant one Saturday afternoon when Fulchester United got a cup tie.

00:16:35Then there's Mr. Patels' assistant whom you mentioned, a man called Mukherjee, reported and deported as an illegal immigrant.

00:16:42That's right.

00:16:43Well, you were responsible for that, weren't you?

00:16:45The first I heard that he was an illegal immigrant was when the police had arrested him.

00:16:49I did not know before then.

00:16:50And the Vlika there said it was me, but it wasn't.

00:16:53And in February of last year, just after his wife and young children joined him, Mr. Patel was convicted for permitting overcrowding in his home.

00:17:01You were behind that too, weren't you?

00:17:02Somebody else doesn't like them, but I get the blame for it all.

00:17:06Mr. Lawton, that was another prosecution that was vindicated.

00:17:09Mr. Patel was committing an offence.

00:17:11So what are you complaining about?

00:17:13Your Honor, I am using these incidents as illustrations that Mr. Pegg has an obsessive desire to harm the Patel family.

00:17:20Well, he said he wasn't responsible for half these events.

00:17:23Only the successful prosecutions for breaches of the law regulating trading.

00:17:27Now, can't we get on to the theft and stabbing?

00:17:30The alleged theft and the alleged stabbing, Your Honor.

00:17:32Yes, very well, of course.

00:17:33Miss Pegg, when you and my two clients were struggling over the role of cotton, Miss Patel had her back to the stall, had she not?

00:17:43She could have done. It's all a bit of a blur now, to be honest.

00:17:46And you put your hand in her face and began forcing her head back?

00:17:50I never touched her.

00:17:51Oh, I suggest you did.

00:17:52And that the stabbing occurred when she lost her grip on the role of cloth and fell back onto the stall with you on top of her.

00:17:59In other words, you fell onto the scissors.

00:18:01I never felt anywhere. I was standing up all the time. She stuck it in me.

00:18:05With which hand?

00:18:06The right one, I think.

00:18:08Did she pick them up after the struggle?

00:18:11I don't know. I never noticed. She could have done.

00:18:14The first time I saw it was when I saw what was sticking into me guts.

00:18:18Will you take the book in your right hand, read aloud from the card?

00:18:21I would if you'd hold the card the right way up.

00:18:25Silly me.

00:18:26I swear by almighty God that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

00:18:36Mrs. Pegg, what is your full name?

00:18:38Sarah Pegg.

00:18:40And do you live with your husband, Henry Pegg, at 179 Calcutta Road, Fulchester?

00:18:44I do.

00:18:45And you also assist your husband in his shop in Market Street, namely Pegg's Housewives Emporium.

00:18:50Yes.

00:18:51I do the haberdashery, fabrics, lampshades, and other things that might be called more feminine.

00:18:58And do you control the stock for your department?

00:19:01Yes.

00:19:01May she be shown Exhibit 1?

00:19:03Now, have you ever had any cotton like that in stock?

00:19:10Yes, I had four rolls delivered last year.

00:19:13From whom?

00:19:15Addison Johnson's of Manchester.

00:19:16They are one of our main suppliers.

00:19:18About £10,000 worth a year we have off them.

00:19:21And when were the four rolls of that cotton delivered to you?

00:19:24That would be on the delivery note.

00:19:27May she be shown Exhibit 3?

00:19:28Yes.

00:19:33Yes, that's it.

00:19:38Four rolls of spring song.

00:19:42Delivered on?

00:19:44Well, it says here.

00:19:4612th of October, 1976.

00:19:51Now, where you would work in the shop on the 30th of November last year?

00:19:55Yes.

00:19:55And did you observe anything?

00:19:57Yes.

00:19:57I'd just come out of the office and I was going back to the haberdashery

00:20:01when I saw the Patel boy walk out with a roll of spring song as bold as brass.

00:20:05And what time was it?

00:20:0711 o'clock.

00:20:07I'd just had my morning cup of tea.

00:20:10Was everyone having a tea break then?

00:20:12No, the assistants don't get a tea break in the morning.

00:20:15Oh, I see.

00:20:15So the haberdashery counter was unattended?

00:20:17No, I'm there most of the time.

00:20:19If I have to go out for anything,

00:20:20I ask one of the girls from another counter to keep an eye on it.

00:20:24But the smutty talk starts as soon as I turn me back.

00:20:27Sir, there were some members of the staff in attendance,

00:20:29but they were not paying attention.

00:20:30Yes, they had their backs turned.

00:20:32I've told them time and again.

00:20:34You've got to treat everyone who comes into the shop as a shoplifter

00:20:37and whatever else, never turn your back.

00:20:40But they don't care.

00:20:42They don't lose anything if we lose half our stock.

00:20:45Yes, I see. Thank you.

00:20:47Now, when you saw the Patel boy with a roll of cotton under his arm,

00:20:50what did you do?

00:20:51Well, I asked him where on earth he thought he was going with that.

00:20:55And then what happened?

00:20:56Did he say anything?

00:20:58Yes.

00:20:58He said something rude.

00:21:00What did he say?

00:21:02He told me to shut my mouth.

00:21:04And then what happened?

00:21:05Well, he ran out of the shop before I could grab hold of him.

00:21:08And then you called your husband?

00:21:10Yes.

00:21:11Can you just tell me this, Mrs. Bain?

00:21:12By the 30th of November, had you sold any of those four rolls of cotton that had been delivered?

00:21:19One.

00:21:19So on the morning of the 30th, you had three rolls left in your shop,

00:21:24one of which was taken out by the Patel boy there.

00:21:26That's right.

00:21:27That's right.

00:21:28I'd specially checked that morning.

00:21:30There were three.

00:21:31I see.

00:21:33Now, Mrs. Pegg, I want to deal with some other matters.

00:21:35There had been some friction between your family and the Patel family, I believe.

00:21:39Oh, there'd been nothing but trouble ever since they came.

00:21:41I said to Henry when they came asking to rent the flat.

00:21:45Oh, and then they were there three years without paying a penny rent.

00:21:48I said to him we should stick to our own kind and I'd love it.

00:21:50Yes, Mrs. Pegg, I'm not concerned with all the details.

00:21:53What I want to know is whether Miss Patel ever spoke to you about the situation.

00:21:58Oh, you mean when I had to speak to her about her father interfering with the girls in the market.

00:22:04Don't talk about our father like that.

00:22:06Why don't you stop her lies?

00:22:07Why don't you say something?

00:22:08Miss Patel.

00:22:09Disgusting saying that in front of Mum.

00:22:10I understand your mother does not understand English, Miss Patel.

00:22:14No, she don't.

00:22:15Then what are you distressing yourself about?

00:22:17We understand English, all right.

00:22:18Better than we understand Gujarati anymore.

00:22:20Miss Patel, we are now hearing Mrs. Pegg's story.

00:22:23If you wish, at a later date, you will have your say.

00:22:26At the moment, you must sit down and be quiet.

00:22:30We'll be able to tell the truth then?

00:22:31You will have that opportunity.

00:22:33All right, I'm sorry.

00:22:34But it's just so wrong saying that...

00:22:35That will do.

00:22:37Mrs. Pegg, you say there was an occasion when you spoke to Miss Patel

00:22:41about her father interfering with the girls in the market.

00:22:44What exactly did you say to her?

00:22:46Well, I said I thought she ought to know

00:22:49because he'd be getting into trouble soon with the police.

00:22:54Did you say what you thought he was doing?

00:22:56Yes.

00:22:57You know, pinching them.

00:23:00And, you know, showing himself.

00:23:03Exposing himself?

00:23:04Yes.

00:23:05Did she say anything?

00:23:07Yes.

00:23:08She said somebody ought to shut my mouth soon,

00:23:11or she would.

00:23:11Permanent, she said.

00:23:12And she said that went for Mr. Pegg as well.

00:23:15So she threatened you when you asked him?

00:23:16Yes.

00:23:17Did she say anything else?

00:23:19Yes.

00:23:21She said she'd do that

00:23:23if one of us was to open our mouths again.

00:23:26Now, when did this conversation take place?

00:23:28Just before we went on holiday, July.

00:23:30Last year?

00:23:31Yes.

00:23:31Now, were there any other occasions

00:23:34when any kind of friction arose

00:23:36between you and the Patels

00:23:37before the 30th of November

00:23:40when the cloth was taken?

00:23:41No.

00:23:42So, to use Miss Patel's own words,

00:23:44the next time either you or Mr. Pegg

00:23:46opened your mouth...

00:23:47She stabbed him.

00:23:48I mean, she's as good as their word.

00:23:49You have to say that for her.

00:23:51The cases in Forchester are fictitious.

00:24:14Join us tomorrow

00:24:14when the Queen against Nvlika and Dimesh Patel

00:24:17will be resumed in the Crown Court.

00:24:19Mrs. Pegg,

00:24:33did you follow your husband out of the shop

00:24:35after you had told him

00:24:36that the Patel boy there

00:24:37had stolen the roll of cotton?

00:24:39No, somebody had to mind the store.

00:24:41I went out when I saw the crowd.

00:24:44Oh, a crowd gathered, and then you went out?

00:24:45Yes.

00:24:46And what did you see?

00:24:47Well, Henry was all covered in blood.

00:24:51A brother and sister,

00:24:52Nvlika and Dinesh Patel,

00:24:54are on trial on charges arising out of an incident

00:24:56in Forchester Market in November last year.

00:25:00A shopkeeper, Henry Pegg, and his wife Sarah

00:25:02have alleged that Dinesh

00:25:03stole a roll of cotton from their shop

00:25:05and that when Mr. Pegg went to reclaim it,

00:25:07Nvlika stabbed him in the stomach

00:25:09with a pair of scissors.

00:25:11Sarah Pegg is still giving evidence.

00:25:12The jury are selected from members of the public

00:25:14whose names appear in the electoral register.

00:25:17Finally, they got him.

00:25:18Yes, I see. Thank you.

00:25:20Any more questions, Mr. Sisson?

00:25:21Just one, Your Honour.

00:25:23Mrs. Pegg,

00:25:24after your husband had been taken to the hospital,

00:25:26did you go back into the shop

00:25:28to see how many rolls of that cotton were there?

00:25:30Yes.

00:25:31There were two.

00:25:33Thank you, Mrs. Pegg.

00:25:34Would you wait there, please?

00:25:35Now, Mrs. Pegg,

00:25:41yesterday afternoon you told us in lurid detail

00:25:45how you'd had a conversation with my client, Miss Patel,

00:25:49in which you told her that her father

00:25:51had been interfering with the young women in the market

00:25:53and that at the end of that conversation

00:25:56she threatened you and your husband.

00:25:59I put it to you that no such conversation ever took place.

00:26:03It's just one of your inventions.

00:26:05It did every word of it.

00:26:07Well, I hear what you say, Mrs. Pegg.

00:26:10I also suggest that Denish Patel

00:26:12never entered your shop on the 30th of November last year.

00:26:15In fact, I suggest this entire charge

00:26:17is one which you have trumped up

00:26:19after seeing that the Patels were selling

00:26:21this Springsong cotton identical to your own stock.

00:26:24That's not true.

00:26:26Do you agree with your husband

00:26:28that there is nothing on or about this roll of cotton

00:26:31to show that it came from your store?

00:26:34Yes.

00:26:35But you say you actually saw Denish Patel

00:26:37taking it from the shop?

00:26:39Yes.

00:26:39You saw it, but your assistants did not?

00:26:41I've already explained all this.

00:26:44So it's really all a question of the value

00:26:46to be placed on your evidence.

00:26:50Mrs. Pegg,

00:26:51I am curious about some quite peripheral aspects

00:26:55of your evidence.

00:26:56When you were asked to take the oath yesterday,

00:26:58you said the usher was holding the card upside down.

00:27:01Do you recall that?

00:27:03Yes.

00:27:05Well, he wasn't holding it upside down, was he?

00:27:07Yes, he was.

00:27:09He says he wasn't.

00:27:10Well, he's wrong.

00:27:11Well, I hear what you say, Mrs. Pegg.

00:27:13What on earth is this about, Mr. Lawton?

00:27:15If your honour will allow me a little while

00:27:17in which to develop my cross-examination.

00:27:19Very well.

00:27:22Mrs. Pegg,

00:27:23you also mentioned that you went on holiday

00:27:25last summer in July.

00:27:27Yes, we went to my sister.

00:27:29She has a villa at the Costa del Sol

00:27:30with a swimming pool and all.

00:27:32Mrs. Pegg,

00:27:32the truth is that you did not go anywhere at all,

00:27:35did you?

00:27:36That's what your husband told us.

00:27:38Oh, well,

00:27:39it must have been the year before.

00:27:41Don't you know whether you had a holiday last year?

00:27:44Well, I must have been confused.

00:27:48Another matter, Mrs. Pegg.

00:27:50You mentioned that when the Patels

00:27:51were tenants of a flat of yours,

00:27:53they never paid their rent.

00:27:54That isn't true either, is it?

00:27:56Oh, they never paid a penny.

00:27:58Sarah!

00:28:00Well,

00:28:01in that case,

00:28:02can you explain how it was

00:28:03that they occupied that flat

00:28:05for nearly three years

00:28:06without your husband trying to have them evicted?

00:28:08Well, I expect you felt sorry for them.

00:28:12Come now, Mrs. Pegg,

00:28:14the truth is that you are an inveterate liar,

00:28:17aren't you?

00:28:18You lie about anything and everything,

00:28:19even if it's quite unimportant.

00:28:21You're just trying to get me confused.

00:28:24Miss...

00:28:25Mrs. Pegg,

00:28:30just now you told us that your sister

00:28:31has a house on the Costa del Sol.

00:28:34You haven't even got a sister, have you?

00:28:36I didn't say that.

00:28:38Yes, you did.

00:28:39I didn't, did I?

00:28:41Yes, you did.

00:28:41Mrs. Pegg,

00:28:43how did you come to say that?

00:28:44Have you got a sister?

00:28:46Well, she's not a real sister.

00:28:48She's a friend, I call her sister.

00:28:51I always call her my sister,

00:28:52don't I, Henry?

00:28:53Don't answer, Mr. Pegg.

00:28:55Mrs. Pegg,

00:28:56you cannot ask questions

00:28:57while you are giving evidence.

00:28:59Do you understand?

00:29:01I see.

00:29:03Ever had any psychiatric treatment, Mrs. Pegg?

00:29:06No, why should I?

00:29:07For your tendency to tell lies,

00:29:09to invent stories.

00:29:10Is it your case that this witness

00:29:12has been receiving psychiatric treatment?

00:29:14No, Your Honor,

00:29:15it seemed a reasonable question to ask.

00:29:17Well, I consider it an improper question

00:29:19to ask a witness

00:29:20whether she has had psychiatric treatment,

00:29:22unless you have strict instructions to that effect.

00:29:24I was not making a positive assertion, Your Honor,

00:29:26I was merely asking a question.

00:29:28It is the same thing, Mr. Lawton.

00:29:31Well, Your Honor,

00:29:32I respectfully disagree,

00:29:33but, of course,

00:29:33I bow to your ruling.

00:29:35Very well.

00:29:36Let's pass on.

00:29:39Mrs. Pegg,

00:29:41do you make a record

00:29:42of every sale you make?

00:29:44Of course we do.

00:29:45So you will be able

00:29:46to produce documentary proof

00:29:48that by the morning

00:29:49of the 30th of November last year,

00:29:51you had only sold one

00:29:52of the four rolls of Springsong

00:29:53and thus had three rolls left?

00:29:55Well, you'll have to...

00:29:56You'll have to ask my husband,

00:29:58because he deals

00:29:59with all the paperwork.

00:30:00Is this really necessary,

00:30:02Mr. Lawton?

00:30:03She says she saw your client

00:30:05carry the roll of cotton

00:30:06out of the shop.

00:30:07Now, isn't that enough?

00:30:09Certainly not.

00:30:10If before the alleged theft

00:30:11there were only two rolls left,

00:30:13the same number

00:30:13as there were afterwards.

00:30:15Yes, very well.

00:30:16Mr. Pegg,

00:30:16can you get the documents

00:30:17Mr. Lawton wishes to see?

00:30:19No, I'm afraid not, Your Honor.

00:30:21Oh, why not?

00:30:22Well, a lot of stuff

00:30:23got thrown out by mistake.

00:30:25We had a clear out

00:30:26in the new year

00:30:26and they was with them.

00:30:28So the stock records are lost?

00:30:30Oh, not all of them,

00:30:31just some of the sales records.

00:30:33Well, there you are, Mr. Lawton.

00:30:34Doesn't look as though

00:30:35we can take this matter

00:30:36any further.

00:30:38No, Your Honor.

00:30:40Thank you, Mr. Pegg.

00:30:42Yes, Mr. Lawton.

00:30:44So, Mrs. Pegg,

00:30:46you are in the position

00:30:47which your husband implied

00:30:48Mr. Patel

00:30:49had engineered for himself

00:30:50for the purposes

00:30:51of making his returns

00:30:52to the Inland Revenue.

00:30:53Namely,

00:30:54no sales records

00:30:55to contradict

00:30:55your assertion

00:30:56that something

00:30:57has been lost

00:30:57or stolen

00:30:59and not sold.

00:31:00If that's what

00:31:01my husband says,

00:31:03yes.

00:31:03Oh, it is, Mrs. Pegg.

00:31:06It is.

00:31:08Your Honor,

00:31:09I have a few questions

00:31:10to ask in re-examination,

00:31:12but I have a witness waiting

00:31:13who is extremely

00:31:14pressed for time.

00:31:15I wondered

00:31:15if I might interpose

00:31:16his evidence.

00:31:17Of course, Mr. Sisson.

00:31:19Yes, this is one of ours,

00:31:21Springsong.

00:31:22In fact,

00:31:23I designed it myself.

00:31:25When did you first start

00:31:26manufacturing this particular design?

00:31:28October last year.

00:31:30And I believe you have,

00:31:31at the request of the police,

00:31:32checked your records

00:31:33of the stock.

00:31:34Yes, yes,

00:31:34I gave the records

00:31:35to the police.

00:31:36May he be shown

00:31:37Exhibit 4?

00:31:38Asher.

00:31:40Your Honor,

00:31:41I shall be asking

00:31:42to introduce

00:31:43these records as evidence,

00:31:44pursuant of the

00:31:45Criminal Evidence Act,

00:31:461965.

00:31:47I believe my friend

00:31:48has no objection.

00:31:49Mr. Lawton.

00:31:50Earl.

00:31:52Mr. Johnson,

00:31:53can you tell us

00:31:54from the records

00:31:54how many rolls

00:31:55of this cloth

00:31:56had been sold

00:31:56by the 30th of November

00:31:58last year?

00:31:59Yes, four.

00:32:00And can you tell us

00:32:01to whom they'd been sold?

00:32:02Yes, to Peg's

00:32:04Housewives Emporium.

00:32:05In Market Street,

00:32:06Fulchester?

00:32:07Yes.

00:32:08And you're quite sure

00:32:09that none of this material

00:32:10had been sold

00:32:11to anyone else

00:32:12by that date?

00:32:13Quite sure.

00:32:14So that if anyone else

00:32:15was in possession

00:32:15of this material

00:32:16by that date,

00:32:17they must have got it

00:32:18from Peg's?

00:32:19Yes.

00:32:20One other question,

00:32:21Mr. Johnson.

00:32:21At what price

00:32:22do you wholesale

00:32:23this material?

00:32:2440p per metre.

00:32:25And how much

00:32:26is there on the roll?

00:32:27Well, it varies,

00:32:28but around 50 metres.

00:32:30And at what price

00:32:31would you expect it

00:32:31to retail?

00:32:32Our recommended price

00:32:34is 74p.

00:32:36Thank you,

00:32:36Mr. Johnson.

00:32:40Mr. Johnson.

00:32:42Apart from being sold,

00:32:44stock does sometimes

00:32:45simply go missing,

00:32:47doesn't it?

00:32:48Yes,

00:32:49that is the purpose

00:32:49of stock control,

00:32:51to minimise pilfering

00:32:52and so forth.

00:32:53But none of this

00:32:54particular line

00:32:54has gone missing

00:32:55so far.

00:32:57When was the last

00:32:57stock take?

00:32:59Well, they're monthly,

00:33:00so the last one

00:33:01would be last month.

00:33:03Of course,

00:33:03all the figures

00:33:04you've given us

00:33:04are based on records

00:33:06compiled by your employees.

00:33:08Yes.

00:33:08So those figures

00:33:09might well be erroneous

00:33:10if there's a miscount,

00:33:11for instance.

00:33:12Oh, yes, yes,

00:33:12it could happen,

00:33:13but by the law of averages,

00:33:14it's bound to be picked up

00:33:15at the next stock take.

00:33:16Well, for example,

00:33:17it is possible

00:33:18that you start with

00:33:19102 rolls,

00:33:20which intentionally,

00:33:21or by mistake,

00:33:23are in fact recorded

00:33:24as being only

00:33:25100 rolls.

00:33:27Theoretically, yes.

00:33:28But you are

00:33:29overlooking the fact

00:33:30that I know

00:33:30how much raw material

00:33:31is being printed.

00:33:33And if enough cotton

00:33:34for 102 rolls of print

00:33:35produces only 100 rolls

00:33:37of printed material,

00:33:38I would want to know why.

00:33:40You don't manufacture

00:33:41your own material, then?

00:33:42No.

00:33:44Do you ever find

00:33:45that there is more material

00:33:46on a roll

00:33:46than has been stated

00:33:47to you by the manufacturers?

00:33:49Yes, it can happen.

00:33:52So that it's possible

00:33:52that in some circumstances

00:33:54you might not know

00:33:55how much raw material

00:33:56was actually being printed?

00:33:58For this to happen,

00:33:59there would have to be

00:34:00deliberate dishonesty

00:34:01on the part of a number

00:34:02of my employees,

00:34:04between five and ten,

00:34:05acting in concert.

00:34:07Firstly,

00:34:07you'd have to have a situation

00:34:08in which the manufacturers

00:34:09supplied us with more material

00:34:11than they themselves indicated.

00:34:13Then you'd need the men

00:34:14discovering this

00:34:14and deciding to make

00:34:15a profit out of it,

00:34:16making false entries

00:34:17all over the place,

00:34:19just so that they could,

00:34:20as you suggest,

00:34:21produce a few extra rolls

00:34:23of print.

00:34:24And then they'd have to

00:34:25get it out of the factory.

00:34:26Yes, I appreciate all that,

00:34:27Mr Johnson.

00:34:28Another way in which

00:34:28it can be done, of course,

00:34:29is for certain material

00:34:30to be falsely written off

00:34:32as being damaged,

00:34:34soiled,

00:34:34substandard in some way.

00:34:36Again, that involves

00:34:37dishonesty by my employees,

00:34:39including collusion

00:34:40by my foreman.

00:34:41And it's an implication

00:34:42I'm beginning to resent.

00:34:44So only your foreman

00:34:45have the authority

00:34:46to certify

00:34:47and therefore write off

00:34:48fabric as being

00:34:49substandard or soiled?

00:34:50Yes, Your Honor.

00:34:51And I may say that

00:34:52if it is substandard

00:34:53when it comes from

00:34:54the manufacturers,

00:34:54this involves

00:34:55a contra charge against them.

00:34:56And if no such charge

00:34:57is made,

00:34:59I want to know why.

00:35:00And what about

00:35:00this particular cotton?

00:35:01Has any of this

00:35:02been written off

00:35:03for any of these reasons?

00:35:03Not this print, no.

00:35:05But has cotton

00:35:06of the type on which

00:35:07this was printed

00:35:08been written off

00:35:09since October last year?

00:35:10Well, yes,

00:35:11that's inevitable.

00:35:11We use vast quantities

00:35:13of this particular cotton

00:35:14for producing

00:35:15a whole range of goods.

00:35:16So, it is theoretically

00:35:17possible that some

00:35:18of the cotton

00:35:19of the type on which

00:35:20this was printed

00:35:20was falsely written off

00:35:22and then in fact

00:35:23printed and smuggled

00:35:24out of the premises?

00:35:25It is not a theory

00:35:27I would accept

00:35:27as having any real possibility.

00:35:31One last matter,

00:35:32Mr. Johnson.

00:35:33Mrs. Pegg has told us

00:35:34that Pegg's Housewives

00:35:35Emporium

00:35:36are one of your

00:35:37biggest customers.

00:35:38Is that true?

00:35:39Well, I really can't think

00:35:40where she gets

00:35:41that idea from.

00:35:41They must be

00:35:42one of our smallest.

00:35:44Buying what value

00:35:45of fabric from you

00:35:46in a year, say?

00:35:47Oh, I'd say about

00:35:48£500.

00:35:51Not £10,000.

00:35:53That's the figure

00:35:53that she mentioned.

00:35:55Gracious, no.

00:35:55I can't think

00:35:56how she could have

00:35:57got a figure like that.

00:36:01Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

00:36:02My pleasure.

00:36:04Does your honour

00:36:05have any questions?

00:36:06Yes.

00:36:07Mr. Johnson,

00:36:08Mr. Lawton

00:36:09has made various suggestions

00:36:10as to how some

00:36:11of this particular cloth

00:36:12of yours could be

00:36:13unaccounted for.

00:36:14But all these suggestions

00:36:16imply mistake

00:36:18or dishonesty

00:36:19by your employees.

00:36:21Now, knowing your

00:36:21workforce as you do,

00:36:23do you find

00:36:24these suggestions credible?

00:36:25Your honour,

00:36:26with the greatest respect,

00:36:27that question is,

00:36:28in my opinion,

00:36:29wholly inadmissible.

00:36:30It is for the jury

00:36:31to decide whether

00:36:32they think the suggestion

00:36:33is credible or not.

00:36:34If I thought

00:36:35that question

00:36:35was inadmissible,

00:36:36I would not have

00:36:37asked it, Mr. Lawton.

00:36:38I consider it

00:36:39is admissible.

00:36:41Will your honour

00:36:42make a note

00:36:42of my objection?

00:36:44Of course.

00:36:45I'm obliged.

00:36:47Yes, Mr. Johnson.

00:36:48I find this suggestion

00:36:50quite incredible,

00:36:51Your Honour.

00:36:52It is my experience

00:36:53in my own business

00:36:54and in other businesses

00:36:55that in a well-run factory

00:36:57with adequate wages

00:36:59and good labour relations,

00:37:01these kind of things

00:37:01only happen

00:37:02exceptionally.

00:37:04We haven't had a case

00:37:05of pilfering

00:37:06for over five years.

00:37:08Yes, thank you,

00:37:09Mr. Johnson.

00:37:10Mrs. Pegg,

00:37:10will you come back

00:37:11into the witness box,

00:37:12please?

00:37:14Mrs. Pegg,

00:37:15your husband

00:37:17does most of the

00:37:18ordering of the stock,

00:37:19does he?

00:37:20Yes.

00:37:20And so, therefore,

00:37:21the figures you gave me

00:37:22for the orders

00:37:23from Adler and Johnson

00:37:24were, um,

00:37:25estimate?

00:37:27Yes.

00:37:27I wouldn't know.

00:37:29I see.

00:37:30Now, one more matter.

00:37:31You have been running

00:37:32the fabrics department,

00:37:33uh, cutting cloth,

00:37:34serving customers,

00:37:35for some years,

00:37:36I presume.

00:37:37Yes, I joined

00:37:38the fabric department

00:37:39at Pegg's

00:37:40when I left school

00:37:41and then I run it

00:37:42on my own

00:37:43after we got married.

00:37:44So I've been there

00:37:45ever since I left school,

00:37:46except when the children

00:37:47were born, of course.

00:37:48Yes, yes,

00:37:49I thought so.

00:37:49Now, I want you to feel

00:37:50the scissors over there.

00:37:52I'll shout them,

00:37:52will you,

00:37:53give them to him?

00:37:57I'll shout.

00:37:58Ah, sorry,

00:37:59I just couldn't resist

00:38:00a little feel.

00:38:01Now, feel the blades,

00:38:02will you?

00:38:05Now, would you say

00:38:06those scissors

00:38:07are sharper

00:38:08than is usual

00:38:09for use

00:38:09in a haberdash's?

00:38:11Oh, I should say

00:38:12they are.

00:38:13No, I don't think so.

00:38:14Who said that?

00:38:15I did, Your Honor.

00:38:16And I should know,

00:38:17I worked in the

00:38:18Harrod's haberdashery

00:38:20department

00:38:20seven years.

00:38:21Get out.

00:38:22Get out of my cot.

00:38:34All stand.

00:38:41Mr. Robinson,

00:38:42I want to make it

00:38:43quite clear

00:38:44I will not have

00:38:44that usher

00:38:45in my court again.

00:38:47He has been here

00:38:47long enough to know

00:38:48that usher should be

00:38:49seen and not heard,

00:38:50and the only people

00:38:51who give evidence

00:38:51in this court

00:38:52are witnesses.

00:38:53Yes, Your Honor,

00:38:54he hasn't been here

00:38:55very long,

00:38:55but he has been here

00:38:56quite long enough

00:38:57to know that.

00:38:57Very well,

00:38:57let's get on,

00:38:58shall we?

00:39:00Yes, Mr. Lawton?

00:39:01I call Miss Patel.

00:39:14She will require

00:39:15to take the Hindu oath.

00:39:17Can I just defer?

00:39:19Do you not practice

00:39:19your religion?

00:39:21Not me and Dinesh.

00:39:22We've sort of been here

00:39:23since we were little kids.

00:39:25When we went to school,

00:39:26we just did what

00:39:27the others did.

00:39:28Mum's very religious then.

00:39:29I see, very well.

00:39:32I do solemnly sincerely

00:39:34and truly declare

00:39:35and affirm that

00:39:35the evidence I shall give

00:39:36shall be the truth,

00:39:37the whole truth,

00:39:38and nothing but the truth.

00:39:40Now, Miss Patel,

00:39:41your full name

00:39:42is Navlika Patel.

00:39:44Yes.

00:39:45And you live at

00:39:45number 12,

00:39:46Plessy Road,

00:39:47Fulchester.

00:39:48Yes.

00:39:48How old are you?

00:39:50Eighteen.

00:39:51I want to spend

00:39:52a little time

00:39:52on history first,

00:39:53you know?

00:39:55I believe you came

00:39:56to this country

00:39:56from India in 1967

00:39:58with your father

00:39:59and your brother

00:40:00here, Dinesh.

00:40:01Yes.

00:40:01You were then

00:40:02nine years old

00:40:03and Dinesh was four.

00:40:04Yes.

00:40:05Four.

00:40:05Who looked after him?

00:40:07Me and Dad.

00:40:08Well, what happened

00:40:09to him when your father

00:40:09was at work?

00:40:11I used to take him

00:40:12to school in the mornings.

00:40:14In the afternoons,

00:40:15he came out earlier than me.

00:40:16So he used to wait

00:40:17outside the school.

00:40:19I used to take him home,

00:40:20give him his tea,

00:40:22and put him to bed

00:40:22when Dad came home.

00:40:23Why did you come to England?

00:40:25Because we were very poor

00:40:28and sometimes

00:40:29we were very hungry,

00:40:30you know.

00:40:31But why pick on

00:40:32choose a Fulchester?

00:40:36Dad had an address here

00:40:37of some people

00:40:38from Gujarat,

00:40:39but when we got here

00:40:40they'd already moved.

00:40:42Where did you live

00:40:43when you first came

00:40:44to England?

00:40:45We rented a room

00:40:46from Mr. Pegg.

00:40:47There was an Indian porter

00:40:49at the station.

00:40:49He fixed it for us.

00:40:51We didn't speak

00:40:51any English, you see.

00:40:52A room?

00:40:53Mr. Pegg said

00:40:54it was a flat.

00:40:55It was a bedsit.

00:40:56It was sort of

00:40:56partitioned off to Cook,

00:40:58so I suppose

00:40:59that's how he gets

00:41:00to calling it a flat.

00:41:01I believe your father

00:41:02worked in a factory

00:41:03for a couple of years,

00:41:03saved up and then

00:41:04opened the stall

00:41:05in the market.

00:41:06Yes.

00:41:07He had a job

00:41:08in an aluminium factory

00:41:09and another job

00:41:11as a machinist

00:41:12in the evenings.

00:41:12Two jobs at once?

00:41:14Yes.

00:41:15We had to send money

00:41:16home to Mum

00:41:16and save up

00:41:18for the business

00:41:18and Mum's

00:41:19and Boy's Fairs.

00:41:20How many younger brothers

00:41:21do you have

00:41:22besides Denish?

00:41:23Two.

00:41:24They're ten and four.

00:41:25So your father

00:41:26returned to India

00:41:27between 1967

00:41:28and 1976?

00:41:30Just once, yes.

00:41:31Can we deal

00:41:31with something

00:41:32more material,

00:41:33Mr. Law?

00:41:34Yes, I'm just about

00:41:35to leave the history,

00:41:36Your Honour.

00:41:38Your mother and brothers

00:41:39arrived in this country

00:41:40in January 1976,

00:41:42I believe,

00:41:42and your father

00:41:42was killed

00:41:43in the road accident.

00:41:44When was that?

00:41:45April.

00:41:46Since when you

00:41:47have been running

00:41:48in the stall?

00:41:49I sort of have to.

00:41:50Mum doesn't speak

00:41:51a word of English.

00:41:52But Denish helps?

00:41:54Yes.

00:41:55Mornings,

00:41:56evenings,

00:41:57Saturdays.

00:41:58He knows more

00:41:59about it than I do,

00:42:00really,

00:42:00as he was always

00:42:00helping Dad

00:42:01when he was alive.

00:42:02What hours do you work?

00:42:03Same as Dad.

00:42:067.30 in the morning

00:42:07to 8 o'clock at night,

00:42:09Mondays to Saturdays.

00:42:10So you are the

00:42:10breadwinner of the family?

00:42:12Me and Denish,

00:42:13yes.

00:42:14If anything happened

00:42:15to me,

00:42:16I don't know

00:42:17what would happen

00:42:18to Mum.

00:42:18She's helpless.

00:42:20Mr. Lawton,

00:42:20we really must come

00:42:21to the main points

00:42:22initially.

00:42:23Yes, Your Honour.

00:42:24Miss Patel,

00:42:25what we need to know

00:42:26is where did you

00:42:27get that roll of cotton?

00:42:29I didn't.

00:42:31Denish did.

00:42:32He does all the buying.

00:42:34Are you telling us

00:42:35that your young brother

00:42:36of 13 years

00:42:37buys all the stock

00:42:38for your stall?

00:42:39Yes.

00:42:41He always used

00:42:41to help Dad.

00:42:43When Dad was alive,

00:42:44I just sort of did

00:42:45the housework

00:42:45when I wasn't at school.

00:42:47It's sort of quite

00:42:47natural for Indian girls,

00:42:48you know.

00:42:49The boys always work

00:42:50if they can.

00:42:51Well, where did he

00:42:52get it from?

00:42:53And when?

00:42:53I don't know.

00:42:56You mean to say

00:42:57you don't know

00:42:58where all the stock

00:42:59for your stall

00:42:59comes from?

00:43:00No, honest.

00:43:02Dinesh usually

00:43:03gets it on a

00:43:03first day evening

00:43:04from a wholesaler

00:43:05in Manchester.

00:43:06He goes along

00:43:07with a friend of Dad's.

00:43:09Well, what are you saying?

00:43:11That I don't know

00:43:12where Dinesh got

00:43:13that stuff.

00:43:15Well, what did it cost?

00:43:17I don't know.

00:43:18Didn't you ask?

00:43:19No.

00:43:20Well, how did you know

00:43:21what to charge for it?

00:43:22Dinesh told me.

00:43:23What?

00:43:24When did you leave school?

00:43:28When Dad died.

00:43:29But I went back

00:43:30for my A-levels.

00:43:31So here you are,

00:43:32a reasonably intelligent person

00:43:33capable of passing A-levels,

00:43:35and yet you are telling us,

00:43:36in fact,

00:43:37that you take orders

00:43:39from your younger brother

00:43:40who is nothing less

00:43:41than an urchin.

00:43:42I don't take orders

00:43:42from Dinesh,

00:43:43but honest,

00:43:44he knows best

00:43:44about these things.

00:43:45He was always helping Dad.

00:43:46I just helped

00:43:47in the stall

00:43:48once or twice

00:43:49before Dad died.

00:43:50I'm sorry,

00:43:51Mr. Lawton,

00:43:52but I did just want

00:43:53to get that clear.

00:43:55I'm obliged, John.

00:43:58Miss Patel,

00:43:59when did you first see

00:44:00that roll of cloth?

00:44:02First thing Saturday.

00:44:04It was already

00:44:05on the stall

00:44:05when I got there.

00:44:06Dinesh had got

00:44:07the stall out.

00:44:08Mrs. Pegg says

00:44:09that it was stolen

00:44:09from their shop

00:44:10at 11 a.m.,

00:44:12yet you say

00:44:12it was on your stall

00:44:13first thing in the morning.

00:44:14What time would that

00:44:15have been about?

00:44:17Well,

00:44:18it was there

00:44:18about 8.30,

00:44:20when I got there.

00:44:21Were there any

00:44:21other materials

00:44:22that were new

00:44:23that morning?

00:44:24No.

00:44:25Did you say anything

00:44:26about the new

00:44:26roll of cloth?

00:44:28I asked Dinesh

00:44:28how much I should

00:44:29charge for it.

00:44:30And what did he say?

00:44:3239 p.m.

00:44:32Did you leave

00:44:35the stall at all

00:44:35that morning,

00:44:36after you'd arrived?

00:44:38No,

00:44:39not until after

00:44:40the trouble.

00:44:41Was Dinesh

00:44:41with you all the time?

00:44:42No,

00:44:43not all of it.

00:44:44He sort of

00:44:45comes and goes.

00:44:46He's got lots of

00:44:46friends in the market.

00:44:47He's always dashing about.

00:44:49Now then.

00:44:50Tell his honour

00:44:51and the jury

00:44:52what happened

00:44:53later that morning.

00:44:55It was about

00:44:5611 o'clock

00:44:57when Mr. Pegg

00:44:58suddenly came up

00:44:59and grabbed the cotton there.

00:45:01Dinesh grabbed the other end

00:45:02and Mr. Pegg was using

00:45:03foul language and everything.

00:45:05So I went to help Dinesh.

00:45:06And what did you do?

00:45:08Well,

00:45:08I grabbed hold

00:45:09of the cotton too.

00:45:10And Mr. Pegg

00:45:11was putting his hand

00:45:12on my face

00:45:13and was pushing

00:45:14my neck back.

00:45:14Then what happened?

00:45:15Well,

00:45:16I lost hold

00:45:16of the cotton

00:45:17and fell back

00:45:18over the store.

00:45:19And he sort of

00:45:20fell on top of me.

00:45:21It was an accident.

00:45:22You had those scissors

00:45:23in your hand?

00:45:25Yes.

00:45:25They went right

00:45:26into him.

00:45:27When did you pick

00:45:28the scissors up?

00:45:29I had them in my hand

00:45:31all along.

00:45:32I was cutting something

00:45:33when Mr. Pegg came.

00:45:34And in which hand

00:45:35did you have them?

00:45:36In my right hand.

00:45:38With which hand

00:45:38were you holding

00:45:39the roll of cotton

00:45:40during the struggle?

00:45:42My left hand.

00:45:44The roll was on my left

00:45:45and Mr. Pegg

00:45:46was on my side

00:45:47of the roll.

00:45:48Miss Patel,

00:45:49did you deliberately

00:45:50stab Mr. Pegg?

00:45:51No.

00:45:52Did you immediately

00:45:53afterwards say

00:45:54the British are not

00:45:55the only ones

00:45:56who know how

00:45:56to stick pigs?

00:45:57That is a lie

00:45:58like everything else

00:45:59Mrs. Pegg says.

00:46:00Did you ever

00:46:01because of the friction

00:46:02between the families

00:46:02threaten to stop

00:46:04Mr. or Mrs. Pegg's mouths?

00:46:06No.

00:46:06That's all lies.

00:46:07She never said

00:46:08any of those lies

00:46:09when my dad was alive

00:46:09and I never threatened them.

00:46:11Never.

00:46:12Thank you, Miss Patel.

00:46:14Just remain there

00:46:15for one moment, please.

00:46:17Miss Patel,

00:46:18you say that you

00:46:19still don't know

00:46:20where your little brother

00:46:21got this roll of cotton.

00:46:23No.

00:46:23Although you've asked him.

00:46:26Of course.

00:46:27If I had witnesses

00:46:28that it didn't come

00:46:29from Pegg's,

00:46:30things would be easy,

00:46:31wouldn't they?

00:46:32And has he told you

00:46:32why he won't say

00:46:33where he got it?

00:46:36He says they might

00:46:37be stolen

00:46:37and he doesn't want

00:46:38to get anyone

00:46:39into trouble.

00:46:40I see.

00:46:41Now, as I understand it,

00:46:43you have reached

00:46:44the conclusion

00:46:44that Mr. and Mrs. Pegg

00:46:46are carrying out

00:46:47a campaign of harassment

00:46:48against you.

00:46:48They are.

00:46:50And you reached

00:46:51that conclusion

00:46:51some time ago?

00:46:53When Dad first opened

00:46:54the store in the market.

00:46:55Seven years ago,

00:46:57that was.

00:46:58And as far as you

00:46:58were concerned,

00:46:59it continued,

00:47:00didn't it?

00:47:00The petition to evict

00:47:01your father,

00:47:02the various convictions

00:47:03and fines,

00:47:04the prosecution

00:47:05for obstruction,

00:47:06Dinesh being beaten

00:47:07up at school,

00:47:08anonymous telephone calls,

00:47:09fat smeared on your door,

00:47:11and the deportation

00:47:12of Mr. Mukherjee.

00:47:13Now, you believed

00:47:14that the Peggs

00:47:14were behind all these things.

00:47:16They were.

00:47:17In fact,

00:47:18by the summer

00:47:18of last year,

00:47:19your feelings were such

00:47:20that when Mrs. Pegg

00:47:22spoke to you

00:47:22about your father's

00:47:23behaviour with the girls

00:47:24in the market,

00:47:25you threatened to shut

00:47:25her mouth

00:47:26and Mr. Pegg's mouth, too.

00:47:28She never said

00:47:28any of that,

00:47:29nor did I.

00:47:30Oh, come now,

00:47:30the truth is

00:47:31that you were looking

00:47:31forward to the opportunity

00:47:32of getting your own back.

00:47:35No.

00:47:35We just did what

00:47:36Dad said we should.

00:47:38Stick it out

00:47:38like Sandy Dad

00:47:39used to say.

00:47:40Miss Patel,

00:47:41I put it to you

00:47:41that you were out

00:47:42for revenge.

00:47:43And you got it

00:47:44by stabbing Mr. Pegg

00:47:45at your store

00:47:46on the 30th of November

00:47:47last year.

00:47:48No,

00:47:49it was an accident.

00:47:50Well, then,

00:47:51if, as you say,

00:47:51it was an accident,

00:47:53I presume you were

00:47:54sorry when you saw

00:47:54that Mr. Pegg

00:47:55had been stabbed

00:47:55in the stomach.

00:47:57Well, were you?

00:47:59Were you sorry?

00:48:01No.

00:48:02I wasn't sorry.

00:48:20The cases in Forchester

00:48:26are fictitious.

00:48:27Tomorrow, you can join us again

00:48:28when the Queen

00:48:29against Naflika

00:48:30and Dimesh Patel

00:48:31will be concluded

00:48:32in the Crown Court.

00:48:33Once again, Miss Patel,

00:48:48you say that you stabbed

00:48:49Mr. Pegg

00:48:49with those scissors

00:48:50and yet you weren't sorry.

00:48:52I didn't stab him.

00:48:53He sort of got stuck

00:48:54onto it

00:48:55when he fell onto me.

00:48:56At any rate,

00:48:56you didn't care.

00:48:58Well, let me put it this way.

00:48:59Would you have been sorry

00:49:00if Mr. Pegg had died?

00:49:02No.

00:49:04Naflika Patel

00:49:05who's giving evidence

00:49:06and her 13-year-old brother

00:49:07are being tried

00:49:08as a result of an incident

00:49:10in Forchester Market

00:49:11in November last year.

00:49:13Shopkeeper Henry Pegg

00:49:14and his wife

00:49:14have alleged

00:49:15that Naflika's brother Dinesh

00:49:17stole a roll of cotton

00:49:18from their shop

00:49:18and that when Mr. Pegg

00:49:20went to reclaim it,

00:49:21Naflika stabbed him

00:49:21in the stomach

00:49:22with a pair of scissors.

00:49:23The case is now

00:49:24in its third day.

00:49:25The jury are selected

00:49:26from members of the public

00:49:27whose names appeared

00:49:28on the electoral register.

00:49:29And I don't think

00:49:32anyone else

00:49:32in my position

00:49:33would have felt sorry

00:49:34if they had to put up

00:49:35with all what we did.

00:49:36Miss Patel,

00:49:37I put it to you

00:49:38that the reason

00:49:38why you were not sorry

00:49:39when Mr. Pegg was stabbed

00:49:40was because it was

00:49:41precisely what you wanted.

00:49:43In other words,

00:49:43that you did it deliberately.

00:49:45That wouldn't have

00:49:46solved anything.

00:49:47Not for me and the family.

00:49:49I mean, would it?

00:49:51I have no further questions,

00:49:52Your Honour.

00:49:54Mr. Lawton,

00:49:55I have one or two questions

00:49:56that might be conveniently

00:49:58asked before you re-examine.

00:49:59Of course.

00:50:01Miss Patel,

00:50:02you say you had

00:50:03the scissors in your hand

00:50:04at the moment

00:50:05the struggle began

00:50:06over the roll of cotton.

00:50:08Now,

00:50:09why didn't you put them down

00:50:10before you went over

00:50:11to help your brother?

00:50:13Surely then you would have

00:50:14had both hands free.

00:50:15I don't know.

00:50:17It was all so quick.

00:50:18Yes, but

00:50:18if you intended

00:50:20to join in the struggle

00:50:21over the roll of cotton,

00:50:22what you really needed

00:50:23was to have both hands free,

00:50:25wasn't it?

00:50:26I suppose, yes.

00:50:27Then why didn't you

00:50:28put the scissors down?

00:50:30I don't know.

00:50:31It was so quick.

00:50:32I see.

00:50:33When you...

00:50:34No.

00:50:35To use a neutral term.

00:50:37When the scissors

00:50:39penetrated Mr. Pegg's stomach,

00:50:41they were open.

00:50:42Now, how did that happen

00:50:44if you didn't open them

00:50:45deliberately

00:50:45so that it would be easier

00:50:47for you to

00:50:47force them into Mr. Pegg?

00:50:49One of the handles

00:50:51must have sort of

00:50:52slipped out of my hand.

00:50:54One of the handles

00:50:54must have sort of

00:50:56slipped out of your hand.

00:50:58But how?

00:50:59I don't know.

00:51:00You don't know.

00:51:03That roll of cloth.

00:51:04You say your young brother

00:51:05got it from somewhere,

00:51:07you don't know where,

00:51:08and you say he still

00:51:09won't tell you

00:51:10from whom he got it.

00:51:11Well, some of his mates,

00:51:13but he doesn't want

00:51:14to tell them.

00:51:15By mates,

00:51:16you mean adults

00:51:16he'd met in the market?

00:51:17Yes, not other kids.

00:51:19Now, you were selling

00:51:20this cotton at

00:51:2139p a metre, hmm?

00:51:24Yes.

00:51:24But the wholesale price

00:51:26was 40p,

00:51:27and the recommended

00:51:28retail price was 74p.

00:51:31Did it not occur to you

00:51:32that this might have

00:51:33been stolen?

00:51:34I didn't know

00:51:35what it cost.

00:51:36Honest.

00:51:37Because you say

00:51:38your young brother

00:51:39buys all the stock

00:51:40for the store?

00:51:41Yes.

00:51:43Very well,

00:51:44Mr. Norfolk.

00:51:47Miss Patel,

00:51:48those scissors,

00:51:50when were they

00:51:50last sharpened?

00:51:52I don't think

00:51:53they ever were.

00:51:54Certainly not

00:51:55since I was

00:51:55running the store.

00:51:57Did you,

00:51:58as has been suggested,

00:51:59have them deliberately

00:52:00sharpened

00:52:00for possible use

00:52:01as a weapon?

00:52:02No.

00:52:03They weren't sharpened

00:52:04at all.

00:52:05Not since Dad died,

00:52:06anyhow.

00:52:07Miss Patel,

00:52:08as we know,

00:52:09your mother only

00:52:10arrived in this country

00:52:10last year

00:52:11and does not yet

00:52:12speak any English.

00:52:13Dinesh is 13,

00:52:14and you have

00:52:15another two younger

00:52:16brothers,

00:52:16aged 10 and 4.

00:52:19When your father

00:52:20died last April,

00:52:21who did you think

00:52:22would have to look

00:52:23after the family?

00:52:24Me.

00:52:26That's why I left school.

00:52:27Dad wanted me

00:52:28to get a degree

00:52:29if I could.

00:52:30You no longer

00:52:30have any plans

00:52:31to get a degree?

00:52:33Well, I can't,

00:52:33can I?

00:52:35Did you ever consider

00:52:36what would happen

00:52:37to the family

00:52:38if anything

00:52:39prevented you

00:52:40from earning a living?

00:52:42Yes.

00:52:43They'd have to go

00:52:44on Social Security,

00:52:45and Dinesh

00:52:46would have to do

00:52:47everything,

00:52:47because Mum's hopeless

00:52:48except for shopping

00:52:49and cooking.

00:52:50You do appreciate

00:52:51that you can go to prison

00:52:52for crimes of violence?

00:52:54Yes.

00:52:55And you understood

00:52:56that last November?

00:52:57Yes.

00:52:58Did you ever consider

00:52:59using any kind

00:53:01of violence

00:53:01on Mr. Pegg

00:53:02or his family

00:53:02as a result

00:53:03of their harassment?

00:53:04No.

00:53:05What's the use

00:53:06of making things worse?

00:53:08Yes.

00:53:09Thank you,

00:53:10Miss Patel.

00:53:10Your Honour.

00:53:12You may go back

00:53:13to the dock

00:53:13for a moment.

00:53:16Your Honour,

00:53:17I wonder if I might

00:53:18have a short adjournment

00:53:19to take instructions.

00:53:20I will be quite frank

00:53:21about this.

00:53:22As you know,

00:53:22Miss Patel says

00:53:23that the roll of cotton

00:53:24was obtained

00:53:25by her brother

00:53:25from some other source,

00:53:26but that he will not

00:53:27say from where.

00:53:29Obviously,

00:53:29I should like to call

00:53:30the person

00:53:31who supplied the cotton

00:53:32if only I can ascertain

00:53:33who he or she is.

00:53:34If he or she exists?

00:53:37Yes, of course,

00:53:38Your Honour.

00:53:39What I want to know

00:53:39is where that cloth

00:53:41came from.

00:53:42Now, look,

00:53:43Dinesh,

00:53:43I'll do a deal with you.

00:53:44You tell me who it is

00:53:46and I promise

00:53:47if he will not come

00:53:47to this court

00:53:48and give evidence

00:53:49voluntarily,

00:53:49I will not force him

00:53:50to do so, okay?

00:53:52We ask him to come

00:53:53and then we leave it up

00:53:55to him to do

00:53:55the decent thing.

00:53:57Okay?

00:53:57I don't know who it was.

00:54:03I've never seen him before.

00:54:05Yeah,

00:54:05well,

00:54:05be telling me next

00:54:06you met him in a pub.

00:54:07I did.

00:54:08That is inherently improbable.

00:54:11Firstly,

00:54:11because it's

00:54:12inherently improbable

00:54:13and secondly,

00:54:14because you are

00:54:1513 years old

00:54:16and publicans

00:54:17do not allow

00:54:1813-year-olds

00:54:18into pubs.

00:54:20I want in the bar,

00:54:22just in the corridor.

00:54:24Which pub?

00:54:28The Green Dragon

00:54:29in Calvary Street.

00:54:32Who took you there?

00:54:34Well,

00:54:35no one.

00:54:36There was this fellow

00:54:37who said there was

00:54:37a bloke down the dragon

00:54:38with a roll of cotton.

00:54:40If I was interested,

00:54:42so I went along.

00:54:43So where is he?

00:54:45Well,

00:54:46I don't know.

00:54:47I've never seen him

00:54:47before or since.

00:54:49What about the fellow

00:54:49who sent you to the pub?

00:54:52Well,

00:54:52he doesn't know either.

00:54:54It doesn't matter, then.

00:54:55What did the man

00:54:56in the pub look like?

00:54:59Well,

00:55:00I don't know.

00:55:01Except his hair

00:55:02was funny.

00:55:03Funny?

00:55:04In what way funny?

00:55:07Well,

00:55:07he was kind of all red.

00:55:09Bright-like.

00:55:12Dyed.

00:55:13Dyed bright red?

00:55:16Yes.

00:55:17Mr. Spears,

00:55:18do you know

00:55:18the Green Dragon?

00:55:19Yes, I do.

00:55:21Right,

00:55:21off you go

00:55:22and keep us informed.

00:55:23Right, go on.

00:55:24So,

00:55:25you bought that cotton

00:55:26from a man

00:55:27with red hair

00:55:28in a pub.

00:55:29A man

00:55:29with red hair

00:55:30in a pub

00:55:31called the Green Dragon,

00:55:32Mr. Sisson?

00:55:33Yes, Your Honour.

00:55:35Well,

00:55:35Peter?

00:55:36That's right,

00:55:37mister.

00:55:38Whom you've never seen before

00:55:39and you've never seen since.

00:55:41No, mister.

00:55:42And I don't see

00:55:43what's so funny.

00:55:44It is just

00:55:45that it is

00:55:45the least credible

00:55:46and oldest of explanations

00:55:48given by people

00:55:49who are accused

00:55:49of having goods

00:55:50that are stolen.

00:55:51It always makes

00:55:52the lawyer's love.

00:55:54Oh.

00:55:54Except that in your case

00:55:55there is an additional

00:55:56implausible feature.

00:55:58You are too young

00:55:59to be admitted

00:56:00into a pub.

00:56:01Yes,

00:56:02Mr. Sissons?

00:56:03Now,

00:56:03how much did you pay

00:56:04this man

00:56:05for the roll of cotton?

00:56:06About five quid.

00:56:08And was it a full roll,

00:56:09about 50 metres?

00:56:11Yes.

00:56:12The proper wholesale price

00:56:13for which would have been

00:56:1420 pounds?

00:56:16Yes.

00:56:16So you knew

00:56:17it was stolen?

00:56:19You were receiving goods

00:56:21knowing them

00:56:21to have been stolen?

00:56:23Please answer.

00:56:25Yes, mister.

00:56:26I only wanted

00:56:27to make a bit more profit.

00:56:28That's all

00:56:29any fence wants to do.

00:56:31Mr. Lawton,

00:56:33in the light of the evidence

00:56:34just given by your client,

00:56:36do you wish to ask

00:56:37for a further

00:56:37short adjournment

00:56:38so that you may

00:56:39take instructions?

00:56:40Your client may wish

00:56:41to change his plea.

00:56:42No, your honour.

00:56:43I would not advise him

00:56:44to change his plea.

00:56:45He is charged

00:56:46with stealing

00:56:47a roll of cotton

00:56:47from Henry Pegg.

00:56:49He is not charged

00:56:50with handling

00:56:50someone else's property

00:56:51knowing it to be stolen.

00:56:52The indictment

00:56:53can always be amended.

00:56:56Your honour,

00:56:56at this late stage

00:56:57in the trial,

00:56:58the indictment

00:56:59could only be amended

00:57:00over my dead body.

00:57:01We shall have to hear

00:57:02argument about that,

00:57:03Mr. Lawton,

00:57:04if the Crown

00:57:04apply to amend.

00:57:06In the meantime,

00:57:07until they do,

00:57:08it would be premature

00:57:09of you to lay down

00:57:10your life.

00:57:12Mr. Sissons,

00:57:12do you wish

00:57:13to apply to amend?

00:57:14No, your honour.

00:57:16The accused

00:57:16has admitted on oath,

00:57:17handling,

00:57:18stolen goods?

00:57:19Yes, your honour,

00:57:20but with the greatest

00:57:21respect,

00:57:21one cannot begin

00:57:22a trial on a charge

00:57:23of bigamy

00:57:24and at the end

00:57:25convict a man of murder.

00:57:26That is hardly

00:57:26the same thing.

00:57:28No, your honour,

00:57:28but the principle

00:57:29is the same.

00:57:30For my part,

00:57:31I am not prepared

00:57:31to run the risk

00:57:32of precipitating

00:57:32what a higher court

00:57:33might well consider

00:57:34to be a mistrial

00:57:35by making the application

00:57:37which your honour

00:57:37contemplated,

00:57:38I might be contemplating.

00:57:39Very well,

00:57:40Mr. Sissons,

00:57:40you have the conduct

00:57:41of the case for the Crown.

00:57:43You will have further

00:57:44cross-examination.

00:57:45Yes, your honour.

00:57:47Patel,

00:57:47you claim that you buy

00:57:48all the stock

00:57:49for the stall

00:57:49that your sister runs.

00:57:51Where do you buy it?

00:57:52Well, on Thursdays,

00:57:53I go to Manchester

00:57:54with some of my dad's friends.

00:57:56They help me like.

00:57:58Who are these people?

00:57:59The Hindus?

00:57:59There aren't many Hindus

00:58:01in England, mister.

00:58:03Mainly Muslims,

00:58:05Indians and Pakistanis.

00:58:07And some English people.

00:58:09Friends of Dad's.

00:58:10And this man

00:58:11who you claim

00:58:12sold you the roll of cotton,

00:58:13was he one of your

00:58:14late father's friends?

00:58:16Well, I've told you.

00:58:17I've never seen him before.

00:58:19And when you go to Manchester,

00:58:21how do you pay

00:58:21for the stuff you buy?

00:58:24How do you mean, please?

00:58:25Well, who pays?

00:58:27Me.

00:58:28Except sometimes

00:58:30the others lend me money.

00:58:31Check or cash?

00:58:35Cash.

00:58:36And where do you

00:58:36get the money from?

00:58:42Well,

00:58:42out of my pocket, mister.

00:58:45I see.

00:58:47Now,

00:58:48it's your sister,

00:58:48Nivlika,

00:58:49who runs the stall

00:58:50most of the time.

00:58:51So I expect

00:58:52that you and she

00:58:52sometimes get together

00:58:53to discuss the business.

00:58:54How it's doing,

00:58:55what to buy,

00:58:56what to sell,

00:58:56and so forth.

00:58:57Yes.

00:58:58And I expect

00:58:58she likes to know

00:58:59what the profit margin is.

00:59:01Yes.

00:59:01So I expect

00:59:02you usually tell her

00:59:03what you've paid

00:59:04for a fabric.

00:59:05Usually I do,

00:59:06mister, yes.

00:59:06So I suppose

00:59:07that you told her

00:59:07what you paid

00:59:08for this cloth

00:59:09which you claim

00:59:09to have bought

00:59:10from a stranger

00:59:10in a pub.

00:59:12No.

00:59:13No?

00:59:14Why not?

00:59:16Because I paid

00:59:17a little for it.

00:59:19I thought it might be hot.

00:59:20Hot?

00:59:22Stolen?

00:59:22You are saying

00:59:23that you didn't want

00:59:24your sister to know

00:59:25that the goods

00:59:26were stolen.

00:59:26Have you ever bought

00:59:29any cloth

00:59:30from a man

00:59:30in a pub before?

00:59:32No, mister.

00:59:33Have you ever bought

00:59:34any cloth

00:59:34in Fulchester before?

00:59:36No.

00:59:37So you're really

00:59:37asking us to believe

00:59:38that you bought

00:59:39this cloth

00:59:40from a man

00:59:40in a pub

00:59:41whom you've never

00:59:41seen before

00:59:42and you've never

00:59:42seen since

00:59:43and who was a stranger

00:59:44to all your friends?

00:59:46That's right.

00:59:47Oh, come now.

00:59:47The truth is

00:59:48that you stole

00:59:49that roll of cotton

00:59:50from the Pegg shop,

00:59:50didn't you?

00:59:51I never stole nothing.

00:59:52And when Mr. Pegg

00:59:54tried to get it back,

00:59:54your sister stabbed him

00:59:55with those scissors.

00:59:57It was an accident.

00:59:59About as accidental,

01:00:00I suggest,

01:00:00as the man

01:00:01in the pub is real.

01:00:06Dinesh,

01:00:07when you were

01:00:08attacked at school

01:00:09in 1973

01:00:10by a gang

01:00:11including Johnny

01:00:12and Tommy Pegg,

01:00:13who appeared

01:00:14to be the leader?

01:00:15Well, they did.

01:00:17They were saying,

01:00:18get the body

01:00:18wag in that.

01:00:21Now, you've told us

01:00:22of a conversation

01:00:23you had with Mr. Pegg

01:00:24in April of last year

01:00:25just after Mr. Mukherjee,

01:00:27your father's assistant,

01:00:28had been deported

01:00:29and your father had died.

01:00:32Tell us again

01:00:33what you said

01:00:33to Mr. Pegg.

01:00:35Well,

01:00:36I said,

01:00:37Mr. Pegg,

01:00:38I know you did

01:00:38for Mr. Mukherjee

01:00:39and you've done us

01:00:41for overcrowding

01:00:42and all the rest.

01:00:43Why don't you

01:00:44just leave us alone?

01:00:46And what did he say

01:00:47to that?

01:00:49Well,

01:00:50he said,

01:00:50sure he did.

01:00:51And there'd be

01:00:52a lot more

01:00:52where they came from

01:00:53if we didn't move

01:00:54from outside his shop.

01:00:55Well, if he said that,

01:00:57why didn't you

01:00:57move your stall?

01:00:58That would have

01:00:59ended it all.

01:01:00Well,

01:01:01Dad said not to.

01:01:03He said that

01:01:03we had a right.

01:01:05That we ought

01:01:06to go to prison first

01:01:07like Mr. Gandhi.

01:01:09Oh, I'm glad

01:01:10you could come.

01:01:10Where is he?

01:01:11In there.

01:01:13Your Honor,

01:01:13that concludes

01:01:14the case for the defence.

01:01:16You're not calling

01:01:16the invisible man

01:01:18from the pub?

01:01:18I regret

01:01:20it has not been

01:01:21possible to trace him,

01:01:22Your Honor.

01:01:22So the jury

01:01:23will have to decide

01:01:24whether he ever existed

01:01:25or if he is the same

01:01:27old,

01:01:28non-existent man

01:01:29in the pub

01:01:29that the court

01:01:30has been hearing about

01:01:31for 300 years

01:01:33or more.

01:01:34Uh,

01:01:35excuse me,

01:01:36is this the hotel case?

01:01:37It is.

01:01:38Who are you?

01:01:39My name's

01:01:40Louis Van Doren.

01:01:41What's yours?

01:01:41Yes.

01:01:42Yes.

01:01:44Yes.

01:01:45Yes.

01:01:46Yes.

01:01:48I sold that

01:01:52to the kids

01:01:52sometime in November.

01:01:54Where did the

01:01:54transaction take place?

01:01:55In the Green Dragon

01:01:56in Calvary Street.

01:01:57And what did he pay you?

01:01:58Do you remember?

01:01:59I don't remember

01:02:00five or ten quid.

01:02:01I don't remember.

01:02:02Has your hair

01:02:03ever been a different

01:02:04colour than it is now?

01:02:05I've had it ash,

01:02:06I've had it silver,

01:02:07I've had it platinum,

01:02:08I've had it purple,

01:02:09I've had it green,

01:02:10I've had it red,

01:02:12and I've had it natural.

01:02:13What colour was it

01:02:13last November?

01:02:15Red.

01:02:16When were you first

01:02:17asked here,

01:02:18asked to come here

01:02:19and give evidence

01:02:19in this case?

01:02:20This morning.

01:02:21By whom?

01:02:22The usher outside.

01:02:24I don't know his name,

01:02:24I've seen him

01:02:25in the Green Dragon.

01:02:26Not the usher

01:02:26in the court here?

01:02:27No, the one outside.

01:02:29I see.

01:02:30Did he tell you

01:02:31of any of the evidence

01:02:32that had been given?

01:02:34He said the kid

01:02:35had said he'd bought

01:02:35some cotton

01:02:36in the Green Dragon

01:02:37from a man with red hair.

01:02:39It had to be me.

01:02:40So you were told

01:02:41before you came here

01:02:42that the boy

01:02:42was claiming

01:02:43he had bought

01:02:44a roll of cotton

01:02:44from a man

01:02:45with red hair?

01:02:46Yeah.

01:02:47I see.

01:02:48Did you have that ring

01:02:50in your ear

01:02:50last November?

01:02:52Yes.

01:02:53Yes, Mr. Lawton.

01:02:55I'm obliged,

01:02:56Your Honor.

01:02:57Mr. Van Doren,

01:02:59whom did you

01:03:00get the roll

01:03:00of cotton from?

01:03:02A fellow that works

01:03:03in Adler and Johnson's

01:03:04in Manchester.

01:03:05The fabric printers?

01:03:06Yes.

01:03:07Who was he?

01:03:08Oh, you don't honestly

01:03:09think I'm going

01:03:10to answer that,

01:03:10do you?

01:03:11As I explained

01:03:11a few moments ago

01:03:12when you burst

01:03:13into this court,

01:03:14disrespect or defiance

01:03:16of the court

01:03:16is a contempt.

01:03:18Right,

01:03:18a bloke I met

01:03:19in the pub,

01:03:20I don't know

01:03:20what his name is,

01:03:21and I was so smashed

01:03:22at the time

01:03:22that I couldn't tell you

01:03:23what he looked like,

01:03:24even if you asked me.

01:03:25I am not impressed

01:03:27with that answer,

01:03:27Mr. Van Doren.

01:03:28I'm not here

01:03:29to impress anyone.

01:03:30I'm here to tell the truth.

01:03:34Mr. Van Doren,

01:03:35Mr. Johnson

01:03:36of Adler and Johnson

01:03:37has told this court

01:03:38that he considers it

01:03:39incredible

01:03:40that any of his

01:03:41members of staff

01:03:42might be involved

01:03:43in acts of dishonesty.

01:03:44Oh, I read that

01:03:45in the newspaper.

01:03:46It's hogwash.

01:03:48Theft is the oldest

01:03:49and best-tried method

01:03:50of redistributing wealth.

01:03:52Theft is, in fact,

01:03:53an essential part

01:03:53of the social system

01:03:54in this country.

01:03:55Without it,

01:03:56there would have been

01:03:56a bloody revolution

01:03:57and capital would have

01:03:58been overthrown

01:03:58a hundred years ago.

01:04:00Theft, the pools

01:04:01and the horses

01:04:02are indispensable

01:04:03to the social system.

01:04:04Mr. Van Doren,

01:04:05could you be a little

01:04:06less general, please?

01:04:07Right.

01:04:08In Adler and Johnson,

01:04:11like most other

01:04:12industrial concerns

01:04:13in this country,

01:04:14the workers are bored,

01:04:15ill-paid,

01:04:16deprived,

01:04:17without job satisfaction

01:04:18and cheated

01:04:19of the fruits

01:04:20of their labour.

01:04:21So they asked themselves,

01:04:22should we fiddle

01:04:23and steal

01:04:24or should we join

01:04:25the unions?

01:04:26And somebody said,

01:04:27well, we better not

01:04:28join the unions

01:04:28because we don't want

01:04:29to upset Mr. Johnson.

01:04:31So they had no alternative

01:04:32but to fiddle

01:04:33and steal.

01:04:34Oh, and Mr. Johnson

01:04:35was lucky

01:04:35because some workers

01:04:37fiddle and steal

01:04:38and join the unions,

01:04:41which is how I got

01:04:42that roll of cloth there,

01:04:44dirt cheap.

01:04:45A 50-metre roll of cotton

01:04:46that featured in their books

01:04:48as material,

01:04:49written off as a bit

01:04:50of smudged printing.

01:04:53As you can see,

01:04:53it was in fact perfect.

01:04:55And you sold it

01:04:55to Denesh Patel here

01:04:56for five pounds.

01:04:58If he says five pounds,

01:05:00five.

01:05:01I thought it was ten pounds.

01:05:02Thank you,

01:05:03Mr. Van Doren.

01:05:06What are you,

01:05:07Mr. Van Doren?

01:05:09A Trotskyite,

01:05:10a common fence,

01:05:11an actor?

01:05:12Or what?

01:05:13Oh, I don't think

01:05:14I'm any of those.

01:05:15You've told us

01:05:16that you sold

01:05:17a roll of cotton

01:05:17to Denesh Patel,

01:05:18which you claim

01:05:19was stolen

01:05:20from Adler and Johnson's.

01:05:22Yes.

01:05:23Have you ever done

01:05:24anything like this before?

01:05:26Yes.

01:05:26Have you been prosecuted

01:05:27for it?

01:05:28No.

01:05:29You have no police record.

01:05:31So you're asking us

01:05:32to believe

01:05:33that you have suddenly

01:05:33entered the world of crime.

01:05:35Or if you're already in it,

01:05:37that you've suddenly

01:05:37decided to confess.

01:05:39I don't like seeing

01:05:40people leaning on kids.

01:05:42And you're prepared

01:05:43to give false evidence

01:05:44to help these two.

01:05:45What a romantic gesture.

01:05:47As Sidney Carton,

01:05:49you're putting your own head

01:05:50on the guillotine.

01:05:51Oh, I'm putting my own head

01:05:52on the guillotine,

01:05:53but unlike Sidney Carton,

01:05:55I'm not innocent.

01:05:57Or is it perhaps

01:05:58that you think

01:05:58because you have

01:05:59no previous conviction

01:06:00that you're unlikely

01:06:01to be sent to prison

01:06:02as the result

01:06:03of confessing to a crime?

01:06:05I don't know much about that.

01:06:06But you do understand

01:06:07that it's unusual

01:06:07for first offenders

01:06:08to be sent to prison?

01:06:10Yes, I think I'd heard that.

01:06:11So that's what you're hoping,

01:06:12is it?

01:06:13That your false evidence

01:06:14will assist the two accused

01:06:15and that if you should

01:06:16be prosecuted on that evidence

01:06:17on the basis

01:06:18that it's true,

01:06:19you're unlikely

01:06:20to suffer very much yourself?

01:06:22No.

01:06:22And it's not just helping them.

01:06:24I'm here to tell the truth.

01:06:26So what do you think

01:06:27you're doing?

01:06:27A good turn

01:06:28for the underprivileged?

01:06:29Or for a friend, perhaps?

01:06:31Your friend

01:06:32who's an usher

01:06:32at this court?

01:06:33I'm telling the truth.

01:06:36Well, then,

01:06:36why did you not

01:06:37volunteer your services earlier?

01:06:39Well, I hardly heard

01:06:40much about the case.

01:06:42But you had heard of it?

01:06:43Yes.

01:06:44And yet you failed

01:06:45to come forward

01:06:45until today.

01:06:46And still you ask us

01:06:47to believe that what

01:06:48you're telling us

01:06:49is the truth?

01:06:49Yes.

01:06:50I didn't know

01:06:51much about it.

01:06:53Your Honour,

01:06:53I wonder if I might

01:06:54be allowed to leave

01:06:55my place and go

01:06:55closer to the witness box.

01:07:02What is your job,

01:07:04Mr. Van Doren?

01:07:06I'm a dealer

01:07:07in second-hand goods.

01:07:08Where?

01:07:09All over.

01:07:10Fullchester,

01:07:11Manchester,

01:07:11Glasgow,

01:07:12Edinburgh,

01:07:13Portobello Road,

01:07:14Petticoat Lane,

01:07:14East Street Market.

01:07:16You say that your hair

01:07:17was dyed red

01:07:17in November last year?

01:07:19Yes.

01:07:20I don't see any traces

01:07:21of red in your hair.

01:07:23Your evidence

01:07:24is complete invention,

01:07:25isn't it?

01:07:26For some obscure reason

01:07:27of your own,

01:07:27you've decided to come here

01:07:28and tell lies

01:07:29for a couple of immigrants.

01:07:30Why?

01:07:31Because they're immigrants?

01:07:33What I've told you

01:07:34is the truth.

01:07:36Is that the man

01:07:37who sold you the cotton?

01:07:40Yes.

01:07:41Only he had

01:07:42red hair then.

01:07:44He's got a ring

01:07:45in his ear,

01:07:45hasn't he?

01:07:48How was it

01:07:49if that is the man

01:07:50from whom you bought

01:07:51that cotton

01:07:51when you were first

01:07:52asked to describe him,

01:07:54you did not mention

01:07:56that ring?

01:07:58Well,

01:07:59all I could remember

01:08:00was a hair.

01:08:02I have no further questions.

01:08:07Come now, Brutelle.

01:08:08This is your last chance

01:08:09to tell the truth.

01:08:11That you've never met

01:08:12that man before

01:08:13and that you stole

01:08:14that cotton

01:08:14from Mr. Peck.

01:08:16If you lie on oaths,

01:08:18you're guilty

01:08:18of the crime

01:08:19of perjury

01:08:19as well as theft.

01:08:21Now, where did you

01:08:23get that cotton?

01:08:29I got it from him.

01:08:30The prosecution case

01:08:34on all three counts

01:08:35is simple.

01:08:37In relation to the count

01:08:38of theft,

01:08:39the burden of the evidence

01:08:40of Mr. Johnson,

01:08:41of Adler and Johnson,

01:08:42a firm in Manchester,

01:08:44which among other things

01:08:45prints cotton,

01:08:46was that this role

01:08:47came from his firm.

01:08:48And since such cotton

01:08:50had only been supplied

01:08:51to Mr. and Mrs. Peck,

01:08:53the accused

01:08:53must have got it

01:08:54from them.

01:08:55Then Mrs. Peck

01:08:57was an eyewitness.

01:08:59She actually saw

01:09:00the boy there

01:09:01take that roll

01:09:02of cotton

01:09:02out of the shop.

01:09:05The defence suggests

01:09:06that Mrs. Peck

01:09:07is a wholly unreliable witness

01:09:08and they refer

01:09:09to a campaign

01:09:10of harassment

01:09:10by Mr. and Mrs. Peck

01:09:11against the family

01:09:13of the accused.

01:09:14Was there harassment?

01:09:16Or was Mr. Peck

01:09:18merely doing

01:09:19the duty

01:09:20that lies

01:09:21upon every citizen

01:09:21to see

01:09:22that the law

01:09:23is obeyed?

01:09:25That is a matter

01:09:25for you.

01:09:28Young Patel

01:09:28claims he bought

01:09:29the roll of cotton

01:09:30from a man

01:09:31with red hair

01:09:32in a pub,

01:09:33a man he'd never

01:09:33seen before

01:09:34or since.

01:09:36And at the 11th hour

01:09:37a Mr. Van Doren

01:09:39arrives in this court

01:09:40and says

01:09:41he is the man.

01:09:43He says

01:09:44he has come here

01:09:45to tell the truth.

01:09:48Do you really think

01:09:49that if Mr. Van Doren

01:09:51had sold this cotton

01:09:52to this boy

01:09:52he would have delayed

01:09:53coming forward

01:09:54until such a late hour

01:09:55especially

01:09:55if he were a man

01:09:57who thought

01:09:57that truth

01:09:58was important

01:09:58in itself?

01:10:01The second count

01:10:02count of handling

01:10:03refers only to

01:10:04Miss Patel.

01:10:05The burden of the case

01:10:06is that she received

01:10:07that roll of cotton

01:10:08knowing

01:10:09or believing

01:10:10it to be stolen.

01:10:12Now if you reach

01:10:13the conclusion

01:10:14that the roll of cotton

01:10:15was stolen

01:10:15and both parties

01:10:17now say that it was

01:10:18though the defence

01:10:19say it was not stolen

01:10:20from the pegs

01:10:21you must ask yourselves

01:10:22whether you think

01:10:23it is at all

01:10:25credible

01:10:25that she would not

01:10:26have known it.

01:10:29The third count

01:10:30is the most serious one.

01:10:32That is the charge

01:10:33against Miss Patel

01:10:34of wounding Mr. Peg

01:10:36with the intent

01:10:37to cause

01:10:38grievous bodily harm.

01:10:40Certainly

01:10:41he was wounded.

01:10:43And the question is

01:10:43whether that wound

01:10:45was inflicted

01:10:45by Miss Patel

01:10:46with the intention

01:10:47to cause him

01:10:47really serious harm

01:10:49or whether

01:10:49as she claims

01:10:51it was an accident.

01:10:53How was it

01:10:54you may ask yourselves

01:10:55that Miss Patel

01:10:56if she had already

01:10:58the scissors in her hand

01:10:59when the struggle started

01:11:00did not put them down

01:11:02before going over

01:11:04to take part

01:11:04in the struggle

01:11:05over the roll of cotton.

01:11:07Surely

01:11:08she would have wanted

01:11:09both hands free.

01:11:11How was it

01:11:12if it was an accident

01:11:13that somehow

01:11:14her grip

01:11:15had slipped on

01:11:15the handles

01:11:16of the scissors

01:11:16so that they fell open

01:11:18because of course

01:11:19one can see

01:11:20it is much easier

01:11:21to stab someone

01:11:22with one blade

01:11:23of the scissors

01:11:23than with the scissors

01:11:24closed.

01:11:26I must remind you

01:11:28of the burden

01:11:29of proof.

01:11:30The prosecution

01:11:31have the burden

01:11:32of proving their case

01:11:33on each count

01:11:34beyond all

01:11:36reasonable doubt.

01:11:38Now if

01:11:39on any count

01:11:39you think

01:11:40there is a doubt

01:11:41for which you

01:11:42can give a reason

01:11:43then your verdict

01:11:44must be one

01:11:46of not guilty.

01:11:49Will you now retire

01:11:50elect a foreman

01:11:51to speak for you

01:11:52on your return

01:11:53and consider

01:11:54your verdict.

01:11:58The foreman

01:11:59please stand.

01:12:01Just answer

01:12:01this question

01:12:02yes or no.

01:12:03Have you reached

01:12:04verdicts upon which

01:12:05you are all agreed?

01:12:06No.

01:12:06Have you reached

01:12:12verdicts upon

01:12:13a majority

01:12:14of you have agreed?

01:12:16Yes.

01:12:17On the first count

01:12:18of theft

01:12:19do you find

01:12:19the accused

01:12:20Dinesh Patel

01:12:21guilty or not guilty?

01:12:23Not guilty.

01:12:24On the second count

01:12:25of handling

01:12:25do you find

01:12:26the accused

01:12:27Navleka Patel

01:12:29guilty or not guilty?

01:12:30Not guilty.

01:12:32On the third count

01:12:33of wounding

01:12:33with intent

01:12:34to cause

01:12:34grievous bodily harm

01:12:35do you find

01:12:36the accused

01:12:37Navleka Patel

01:12:38guilty or not guilty?

01:12:40Not guilty.

01:12:43Very well.

01:12:44You are free to go.

01:13:02The cases in

01:13:04Forchester are

01:13:04fictitious.

01:13:05You can join us

01:13:06again when our

01:13:06cameras return

01:13:07to bring you

01:13:07another leading

01:13:08case in the

01:13:09Crown Court.

01:13:10The Criar

01:13:11who's for

01:13:16you are free to go.

01:13:20The Criar

01:13:21and show

01:13:32the facts

01:13:32on the

01:13:33River

01:13:34and show

01:13:34the

01:13:36a

Crown Court - The Family Business (1977)

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