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Life, Liberty & Levin 11/2/25 FULL END SHOW | ᖴO᙭ ᗷᖇEᗩKIᑎG ᑎEᗯS November 2, 2025
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00:00Hello, America. I'm Mark Levin, and this is Life, Liberty, and Levin Sunday. Thanks for
00:19being here. We have one guest, a great guest, Douglas Murray. He's just a fantastic thinker
00:26and scholar, and I want to spend some time with him because I think you're going to find
00:29it very compelling. But before we do, you know, we hear about this mandami, we hear about
00:35economic socialism and Marxism and affordability, and ladies and gentlemen, isn't it about time
00:42we defend our system? Capitalism, market capitalism, isn't it about time that we speak out, shout
00:51out in defense of prosperity that capitalism has created, the mobility and freedom it's
00:59created, and private property rights? Why do we listen to these 34-year-old demagogues
01:05who have done nothing in the private sector, maybe served a few drinks or something? But
01:10that's about it. Shouldn't we defend it? So let me help. Let me help defend it. Let me go
01:16on the offense, in defense, of our system capitalism, because socialism exists everywhere, which is
01:24why most countries are absolutely destitute and produce nothing in steel art technology.
01:30Let's take a look at this. What is available to the middle class in America? As a matter of fact,
01:36I don't even like this phrase, middle class. This whole class structure was created by Marx. Middle class,
01:43lower class, upper class, you know, the bourgeoisie, the proletariat. This is America. People move in and out
01:51of economic categories all the time. People inherit a lot of money, they lose it. People make a lot of
01:58money, and then they make more. People don't care to make a lot of money, they just want to make a
02:02living, and they retire. That's fine, too. That's the great nature of a free country and a free economic
02:07system. But let's take a look at this. What is available to every single American, or even non-American
02:13in this country? When you walk into a supermarket, when you walk into a supermarket, let's take a look.
02:19You got all kinds of beef. You've got all kinds of steaks, some from different parts of the world. I
02:27understand meat from Japan is especially good. I don't eat it, but nonetheless, you've got every
02:33kind of ground beef with different percentages of fat. Oh, I'd like 85% fat. No, no, no. 90%.
02:40No. 95% no fat. Wow. What other country has anything like that? Maybe you don't like making
02:48the patties yourself. You can buy it in patty form. You can buy for six, for 12, for 24. And by the way,
02:55you have refrigerator systems in the store. You have freezer systems in the store. You have all kinds
03:00of stuff going on in that store. Other types of food. Well, there's fowl, chicken. You can get it
03:07already roasted. You can get different chicken parts. You can get white meat. You can get dark
03:11meat. Other types of fowl. Turkey. Duck. Some that are a little more exotic, if you're into that.
03:18What about fish? Oh, my God. Fish and shrimp and crab meat to your heart's desire. You can get a whole
03:27fish. Fish without a head. The fish that's breaded effectively, deboned. You can get fish,
03:33fish. Any kind you want. Shrimp. You want it cooked? You want it to have spices? You want it raw? You want
03:39jumbo shrimp? That's kind of oxymoronic, isn't it? But maybe shrimp shrimp. Little shrimp. Whatever you
03:45want. What else do we have? The deli counter. Oh, don't get me started. That's my favorite place.
03:51Hundreds, literally hundreds of types of meat sliced to your liking. Do you want it shaved?
03:57Do you want it thin sliced? Thick sliced? How would you like it? How much would you like?
04:02Quarter of a pound? Three slices? What do you want? Bologna. Pork bologna. Beef bologna. Pork and
04:08beef bologna. What kind of turkey do you want? Do you want it flavored? Do you want it plain?
04:13How about honey? You want honey? You want spices? Ham. My Lord, there's got to be 400 types of ham in
04:18there. It just doesn't stop. Salted, low sodium, kosher. In fact, not ham, obviously, but other types
04:27of meat. Scores of different types of soda. Diet, regular, zero. In cans and bottles, eight ounces, a
04:34liter, six pack, 12 pack, whatever you want. It's right there. There's a whole row. Different types of
04:42juices. Oh, yeah. You can get juices that are for sports and energy. You can get juices that have no
04:49sugar. You can get this juice, that juice, this flavor, that color, whatever you want.
04:54There it is. What about the bakery? My second favorite place. Italian bread, sourdough,
04:59multi-grain. How many grains do you want? You want six? You want 12? I hate it. I don't like biting
05:03into stuff. That's a whole different thing. What about oat bread, hamburger rolls, hot dog rolls,
05:09French bread, challah, white bread, potato bread, Hawaiian bread, bagels, baguettes, English muffins?
05:18The mind's the limit. How about cakes every size for every occasion? Multiple layers, one layer,
05:25cupcakes, cookies of every kind, donuts of every kind, muffins of every kind, pies of every kind,
05:30fresh baked, packaged, custom made. Let's head to the vegetable section, shall we? Green beans,
05:37asparagus, lettuce, tomatoes. Oh, by the way, organic or not. Tomatoes, cucumbers, carrots,
05:45celery, potatoes, sweet potatoes, cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, onions, mushrooms, peppers,
05:51beets, corn, peas, a hundred more. I can't name them all. Let's head over to the fruit section.
06:00Oh, we have a vegan section, too. We have a gluten-free section, all kinds of sections.
06:04But let's just go to the regular fruit section. Bananas, apples, a zillion different types of
06:10apples. Apples I've never heard of before. Ten types of oranges. What kind of orange do you want?
06:16A big orange or small? How about a tangerine? How about a mix of a tangerine and an orange?
06:20We've got the whole thing right here. It's unbelievable. Every other kind of citrus fruit,
06:25all berries. Black, blue, strawberry, raspberry, all the melons, watermelons, cantaloupe, honey,
06:32honeydew, grapes. You want red grapes or green grapes? Grapes with seeds, grapes without seeds.
06:37Just curious. Again, organic or not. 20 different types of everything. You got lemons and limes and
06:44grapefruit and cherries. The list goes on and on. You can get them canned. You can get them bottled.
06:50You can get them frozen. It's incredible. All in the one store. Isn't it incredible?
06:57Capitalism. Capitalism. It's an amazing thing for the average person, for all people.
07:03How about the wine section? I don't drink. You know, my wife might get a glass of wine and
07:08insists I take a sip. So, you know, I'll take one for the team. But that's about it.
07:12All different colors. Rosé, red, white, other colors I can't even think of. Hundreds and hundreds
07:20to choose from. Every part of our country, everybody's got a winery now. Have you noticed
07:24that? Everybody. And from all over the world, every type of wine. Same with the beer. We got frozen
07:32meals up the wazoo for anybody who wants them. Snacks of every kind. Have you seen the popcorn now?
07:38We got this popcorn and that popcorn and that popcorn and this popcorn. And this one has no
07:44calories. This one has cheese in it. This one has garlic in it. Oh, pretzels. What kind of pretzels
07:50you want? You want the family size pretzels, the little pretzel nubs, licorice, same thing. It's
07:54incredible. And while you're there, the next aisle, dog food, cat food, parrot food, bird food,
08:01a thousand different types for your pets, your beloved pets. It's great. What about a flower? Should I get a
08:08bouquet for the wife? I do this all the time. There's a florist in the food store right there.
08:14All kinds of flowers, roses from all over the world, all over the country.
08:20Daffodils. I don't know what the hell a daffodil is. Tulips, all these. They're all there and they're
08:24beautiful right there. Oh, the pharmacy. Big pharma. Big pharma. I hate that phrase. If it wasn't for
08:31the pharmaceutical companies, many of us would be dead. It takes a lot of capital to develop drugs.
08:38You think they're developed all over the rest of the world, in the third world. You think they're
08:41developed in the Middle East, the Far East. You think they're developed in Central America, South
08:45America, in Greenland, Antarctica, Antarctica. Most of it's developed right here in the United States
08:50of America. And the amount of money they have to invest to create a drug. I know we blow it off
08:55because most of us don't know what's going on, but it's a lot. And the rarer the disease,
09:01the more expensive because there's not as many people taking it. But you go there. Pretty much,
09:08you can get whatever prescription you need. If you can't get it immediately, how's tomorrow? Can we
09:12get it for you tomorrow? And over the counter, row and row and row. Toothbrushes, toothpaste. How many
09:18types of toothpaste are there? How many types of toothbrushes? You want one with a battery? You want
09:22to plug one in? You want a manual one? One for the kid? One with Disney on it? One with not? It's
09:28amazing. Oh, let's go to the next aisle. What's over there? Diapers. Diapers for adults. Diapers for
09:36babies. We got all kinds of baby food. We've got all kinds of baby formula. We got baby wipes. 15 types
09:44of baby wipes. You want one with lotion in it? You want one that's odor-free? You want one with a
09:50little perfume, you know, for the obvious? What do you want? We got 20 types of toilet
09:56paper. One ply, two ply, three plies or more. Soft. Ultra soft. Strong. I don't want to get
10:04into it, but you understand. Paper towels. All kinds of paper towels. Paper towels. Oh,
10:11one. You got sponges. You got plastic utensils. You got paper plates and cups. Plastic plates. Plastic
10:17cups. How about detergents? Oh, my goodness. All kinds of detergents. Cleaning supplies. Bags.
10:26Foils. Wax paper. Want to go banking? They got an ATM machine. Want to play the lottery? You feel
10:33lucky? You're not. You're not going to win, but that's okay. They got one of those there, too.
10:38Look what we take for granted as a result of capitalism. You know what's amazing about
10:43capitalism in these stores? The government has nothing to do with it. Oh, they regulate
10:48and they tax. I got that. But when you go into the supermarket, you see all that that's available
10:55to you? No other country on the face of the earth. None. And when you check out, would you
11:02like a paper bag or a plastic bag or a canvas bag? You know, we prefer those to keep our trash
11:08dumps less full, you know. If you'd like that. Oh, and scanners. You scan it. You just scan
11:16it. Tell me, how many countries have anything like this? How many countries with socialist economic
11:23systems have this kind of variety of foods, drinks, drugs, anything? How many? If they have
11:36any at all, it's because they haven't completely socialized their economic system. Because capitalism
11:43and freedom, it's like water. It finds its cracks. It finds its opportunities. That's why
11:47you have black markets in these communist countries, in these fascist countries. Because people want
11:53to voluntarily convey goods, purchase goods, create goods and services. That's only food. I mean, think
12:04about how you get it from the farmer and the rancher. Then it has to be packaged. Some of it
12:11has to be frozen on trucks and trains and delivered. You know, the plastic, all the other stuff that's
12:20used, the ingenuity that goes into this. It's incredible. To the extent any communist or fascist
12:27regime has, it's because they stole it from us. Ninety-eight percent of the new ideas are coming from you and
12:33me through a free, relatively free economic system. I mean, we've got the transportation. Who doesn't own
12:41a car? Even an old jalopy. Who doesn't have access to a car, some kind of car or a motorcycle? And then
12:47gas stations. Liberals wanted to do away with that, but they want to do away with a lot.
12:51Gas stations are everywhere. Gas pumps, right? Available to you. How much more convenient can it
12:58be? And by the way, now, now they have food stores. You want a sandwich? You want a hot dog? You want a
13:03hamburger? What do you want? You want a taco? How about candy? You want some candy? You want any kind of
13:08drink you want to get? How about ice? You want some ice? ATM machine? In a little convenience store
13:16attached to the gas station. How about air travel? You know, we complain about it a lot. Notice it's
13:22always the government that gets in the way. To the extent we now have flights that are canceled and so
13:27forth and so on, you can thank the Democrats because they're blackmailing us in order to centralize
13:32health care, which would destroy the greatest health care system on the face of the earth.
13:36Can I ask you a question? How many of you even think about going into a country from our country
13:42to get health care in a country that has government-run socialist health care? How many of you run to
13:48Canada? You know what? I'm going to get health care. I'm going to Canada. How many of you say,
13:52I'm going to Britain? Do you say, you know what? I'm getting heart surgery. That's right. I'm going to
13:58Paris. No. You go to Paris for clothes. You go to Paris for jewelry, for perfume. You go to Paris
14:06if you want to see a country killing itself. You don't go there for medical care. Where the hell
14:11in Europe do you go when you say, I want to go for medical care? Nowhere. They come here. Nobody goes
14:16to Canada. I'm going to Toronto. I need heart surgery. Have you ever heard anybody say, no way.
14:21The greatest system. We don't stand back and look and say, wow.
14:25Look what capitalism has created. Look what freedom has created. It's incredible. Air travel.
14:35I know it's a pain in the neck. You're going 2,000 miles from the East Coast to the West Coast
14:40on a five-hour flight. That's air-conditioned. Where maybe you can have some snacks. I've got restrooms.
14:51You can watch a movie. You can listen to Wi-Fi. Ooh. Do you have an iPhone? Doesn't everybody have
14:59one of these handheld devices or a laptop or a computer? You think it's that way in the rest of
15:04the world? It's not. It's not. Oh, there's some pockets, but anybody in the United States gets
15:12access to this. Folks, the average person in America, I don't like that phrase either,
15:18but I'm at a loss for vocabulary here. The average person in America lives better than any king or
15:24queen or emperor has ever lived 100 years ago. Ever. Because of capitalism. Because of capitalism.
15:34cell phones, laptops, computers, televisions, we take it all for granted. Radios, we take it all for
15:41granted. Look at our Home Depots and Lowe's and Costco's and BJ's and Sam Clubs and Walmarts and
15:47Target's. This is unique to the United States. Can you imagine walking into a store? When you walk into
15:52one of these warehouse stores, you always say, where are the screws? Forget it. Where are the screws?
15:57Where are the hammers? Where's it? They have everything imaginable.
16:00Well, CBS, Walgreens, same thing. Same thing. Fast food, which is now under attack. A lot of people
16:08need fast food in order to survive. There are countries that would die for fast food. McDonald's
16:16and Burger King and Chick-fil-A. Any kind of food. Anywhere. It's more expensive now, thanks to the
16:22government. Still, you have 7-Eleven. You have Wawa's, different types of coffees. If you want
16:28a hoagie or a sub or whatever. Even bookstores. You know, in other countries, they're repressive.
16:32They don't want you to read. We have bookstores everywhere. Independent bookstores, Barnes & Noble,
16:37Books a Million, on and on and on. Healthcare. Healthcare. The greatest healthcare system on the face
16:45of the earth. But we're destroying it. Now, one other thing that comes with capitalism. Liberty.
16:56You see, Mondami talks about affordability. That's a lie. That's a fake. That's a fraud.
17:04The guy's got no experience in the private sector. He doesn't know how to grow anything, package anything,
17:09sell anything, deliver anything. Guy's never delivered a pizza. But that's beside the point.
17:17Capitalism is not based on some 34-year-old's ideology or anybody's ideology or philosophy.
17:24It's a voluntary, spontaneous system of human interaction. Nobody invented it. It's not an
17:32ideology. It's been going on since the beginning of mankind. That's the truth. You have billions
17:39and billions of decisions being made by individuals or companies or unions or whatever, every single
17:44day, not just in the United States, but all over the world. So a relative handful of ideologues,
17:51like Sanders, who's never had a private job, AOC, who couldn't even pour her drinks right,
17:57Mondami, they're going to replace all of this with something that we know will fail? Where do they
18:05get their information from? What about human motivation? What about human desires? What
18:10about human interests? What about entrepreneurs? They're the ones. We're the ones that make the
18:15country work, not government. Government? They don't make anything work. So the answer is more
18:22government? I don't think so. Economic socialism is incompatible with Americanism.
18:29The declaration, the constitution, the civil society, individual liberty. If you want to be poor,
18:38you want to be impoverished, you want to lose your liberties, join the democratic socialists,
18:45aka the Marxist Islamists. Three cheers for capitalism. I'll be right back.
18:59Welcome back, America. On this Sunday evening, it is a privilege to have Douglas Murray with us to
19:07sort of end the weekend and begin the week. Manhattan Institute senior fellow. He's also a
19:14associate editor at the Britain Spectator, an excellent magazine, as a matter of fact.
19:21He wrote a great book some time ago on democracies and death cults, and this is what I want to get into
19:25with you at the initial stage of our interview here, Douglas, which is Britain, democracies and death
19:33cult. From immigration to economic policies to international affairs, as just an American
19:41watching what's happening in Britain, worried about what's happening in America, but watching
19:46what's happening in Britain, I see one of the greatest countries in the history of mankind in a steep
19:52decline. Am I wrong? No, you're right. It is in a decline, and it's for lots of reasons. One is
20:00the open borders immigration policy that the British government has had for years now.
20:06It's been on a scale similar to that of the Biden years, where the southern border of the United States
20:14was so completely porous until President Trump closed it. Britain still has a completely porous borders
20:21borders. Thousands of people illegally come in by boat every week. They're housed in hotels at enormous cost
20:29to the British taxpayer. And this, of course, causes a cultural change. I describe it as a cultural suicide
20:37in my book from about 10 years ago, The Strange Death of Europe. And so the country's got this unbelievable
20:43identity crisis caused by legal and illegal mass immigration. But then there's also the economic
20:50degradation of the country. You know, the Labour government, since it came into power a year ago
20:56now, has instituted even higher taxes. It's chased out tens of thousands of multimillionaires.
21:04Just in the last year, it's thought that some 15,000 multimillionaires have left London. That then
21:12has its knock-on effect. I sometimes said that the UK is a kind of petri dish experiment, which
21:19Americans should look to, to see where you shouldn't go, things you shouldn't do. And you know, the kind
21:26of policies that Mamdani advocates in New York, you know, the higher taxes, the giving away of
21:34allegedly free gifts, which aren't free at all, because you've got to pay for them in taxation
21:38somehow. All of these things have been tried in the UK. All of them have failed. And it causes this
21:45just cultural malaise, this sense that I get whenever I'm back in the UK, that just nothing is going to get
21:53better. And, and I'm afraid that that for the for the foreseeable future is the case. It's not like the
21:59British public have have estimated their own illness incorrectly. You know, you did have a long period in
22:07Britain, of Tory government, even more recently. This whole open border issue, did it exist, at least in
22:16substantial part under the Tories, and their past recent governments as well? Yes, absolutely. It was the
22:23mass immigration started really in the late 90s with the Labour government of Tony Blair. But the
22:28Conservatives were in power from 2010 to 2014. They came to power, this is an amazing example of
22:34Conservatives failing at the things they promised to do. They came to power promising to lower
22:39immigration to the tens of thousands a year of net immigration, which is what it was in the 1990s.
22:45It actually went up, it stayed at around 300,000 a year. And by Boris Johnson's year in office,
22:54it was net migration of a million. Now in a country of about 65 million people, having a net migration of
23:021 million people in a single year, there's no way to integrate such people. They're all going,
23:09almost all of them are going to be a total drain on the welfare state. I said for years, you can have
23:15open borders or a welfare state, but you can't have both. And I'm afraid that's what's happening.
23:20But yes, imagine Conservatives, which present themselves as responsible, as wanting to keep
23:28the culture of the country, wanting to keep the country recognisable. And they escalate the mass
23:34legal and illegal immigration. That's unforgivable. We did have a little period of that under George
23:40W. Bush, not to this extent. And we had the so-called gang of eight, Republicans, some conservatives,
23:46and Democrats getting together to basically legalize what was amnesty, the mass illegal immigration that
23:54came in to legalize it. And what happens in our countries, we go through these, oh, let's legalize
23:59it this time, but not next time, except under Biden. He broke all the rules. When we come back,
24:04I want to focus a little more on this issue of immigration and the British culture and the
24:10complete lack of assimilation and what's now happening inside the borders of Britain. We'll be right back.
24:16Welcome back, America. We're here with Douglas Murray. So Douglas, this issue of immigration I want to
24:31focus on in Britain. You've had open borders with the Tories and the Labour Party. It's had an enormous
24:38impact, negative impact on Britain economically and culturally. But it's not just immigrants from
24:44anywhere. You've had an influx of immigrants from Pakistan and the Middle East and so forth. What
24:50has that impact been on Great Britain? Well, it's been huge. I mean, the Muslim population in the UK
24:57has been doubling every 10 years of late. And, you know, a lot of people, when we talk about
25:04immigration in America, it's right that people point out that, you know, when people break in
25:10in the Biden years, they break into America illegally, that has huge impacts, criminality
25:16and much more. But it's also quite often been observed that, as it were, a Mexican migrant coming
25:21to America is a big cultural shift, but not the biggest. Compared by, you know, by comparison,
25:29Somalis coming to the UK, Iranians coming to the UK, Afghans, Iraqis, Eritreans, people from across
25:41North Africa, sub-Saharan Africa. These are people who almost none of them are actually going to
25:48integrate into the British way of life. They're not going to sort of, you know, start going to the
25:54Church of England services at Christmas and maybe at Easter, if they're lucky, and sing the carols.
26:00And they're not going to be regulars in their local pub. They're not going to know the music
26:05and the literature and the traditions and the histories of the country. And in fact, many of them
26:11simply dislike all of that. We just saw recently, there was an announcement that there was going to
26:17be an anti-mass migration rally in an area of East London called Tower Hamlets, which is
26:23predominantly Muslim. The protest was banned by the police. But instead, a leftist group turned up
26:31to scream for more open borders and masked, black-clad Muslim thugs by the hundreds, paraded,
26:40covering their faces down the streets to demonstrate that these were their streets.
26:46Now, this is really deliberately threatening, thuggish behaviour. And to date, Mark, I have not
26:54seen one politician in the UK call this out. If these were black-clad, black-shirted, far-right
27:01fascists of the kind that there was a tiny movement of in Britain in the 1930s, the whole political
27:07spectrum would be against them. Everyone would be against them. We'd all be against them. But you get
27:11the black-clad Islamists saying, these are our streets and you better get out of our way. And
27:18the mainstream politicians remain completely silent. But the public, the public notice it. They notice
27:25that, for instance, an asylum seeker got into Britain illegally, broke in illegally a few months
27:32ago. And within his first week, sexually molested three underage girls. And he was finally detained.
27:39And the border police let him go accidentally last week. The guy who went roaming around London
27:46looking for... He went back to the place saying, sorry, you're meant to deport me. Can you not
27:50deport me? They didn't know what they were doing. This is one case, Mark. And there's millions of such
27:57cases. This is what happens if you have a government and consecutive governments that don't have the guts
28:04to do what the Trump administration has done, which is to say, we close the border and we enforce the
28:10laws of the land. Because if you don't enforce the most basic law, which is you're not allowed to
28:15break into the country illegally, then you don't have a hope of enforcing any of the other laws down
28:21the road. And if Britain is somewhat like the United States in many respects, the institutions that used
28:27to require aliens, foreigners who come into the United States to assimilate into our culture, to
28:34assimilate into our society, are all but dead. Because the left has taken over these institutions,
28:40whether it's public education, colleges and universities, the media and so forth. And rather
28:44than assimilating foreigners into our culture and system, as they bring theirs here, they trash our
28:51culture and system. So when we come back, is that the same thing that's going on in Britain
28:56right now? I suspect it's going on in Britain, France and throughout Europe. We'll delve into
29:01this. We'll be right back.
29:02Tarn it.
29:08No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
29:38Welcome back, America.
30:01Douglas, Mary, you know, in our country, I talk about,
30:04and it's not just here, this fusion of Marxism and Islamism.
30:08Not that they have the same absolute belief system,
30:13but the means, which is to destroy the West,
30:16to destroy the United States, Britain, Israel, so forth and so on, all of Europe.
30:21And they've destroyed many of our institutions.
30:24So now patriotism, whether it's British patriotism in Britain or American patriotism,
30:29is under attack, if not a dead letter.
30:32And so many of these institutions that used to require the assimilation of these people
30:37into our country, into your country.
30:39Is that a big problem in Britain, too?
30:41It's the same problem everywhere in the West, Mark.
30:45Our societies, broadly speaking,
30:48decided that if the world was going to move into our countries,
30:52we had to be as welcoming as possible.
30:54And one of the ways we did that was not emphasizing
30:57what makes our countries good in the first place.
31:00I said in The Strange Death of Europe ten years ago,
31:03everything you can tell about the virtue of a country,
31:06you can tell by the direction of the footfall.
31:09Why is it, even today, that the countries in the world
31:12which people want to break into
31:13are America, the United States of America,
31:16Canada, Britain, France, Australia.
31:20It's because these countries work.
31:22It's because our countries work.
31:25It's because we have economics that work.
31:28We have a system of capitalism that works.
31:32We have home ownership.
31:34We have liberties, rights.
31:37We have institutions that have survived the test of time.
31:41And so people want to come into these places and to use that.
31:46But at the same time they do that,
31:47we have all these leftist institutions,
31:49and I have to say it's very often the church,
31:54the NGOs, the schools, the universities, and much more.
31:58And they say, actually, no, the country you've come into,
32:02we're terrible.
32:03We have nothing going for us.
32:04I described this in my 2022 book,
32:07The War on the West.
32:08Look at the assault on all of our founders,
32:11and not just in America, but across the West.
32:13Look at the assault on our heroes.
32:17Look at the way in which the founding fathers
32:19Thomas Jefferson is presented simply as a slave owner.
32:23What else did schoolchildren get taught about Mr. Jefferson?
32:26Not very much.
32:27Look at the assault on Winston Churchill in recent years.
32:30Used to be from the radical Marxist and Islamist left.
32:33Now from, weirdly, bits of the kooky right as well.
32:36But look at the way in which our holy places, Mark,
32:39our holy places as societies,
32:42and I mean that in terms of monuments,
32:44in terms of institutions,
32:45but also individuals who we revere,
32:47who we looked up to.
32:49All of these have been trashed in recent years.
32:52And the perversity of that, among other things,
32:54is why would somebody even want to integrate
32:58into a culture which tells them
33:00that the culture is rotten?
33:02Why would they?
33:04It would be nonsensical.
33:06This immigration,
33:08emigration from many of these Arab countries,
33:13North African countries,
33:15mostly Muslim countries,
33:16into the West,
33:18some of it is spontaneous,
33:20but some of it's not.
33:21The Islamist scholars of the past
33:23have talked about revolution by immigration.
33:26And I see a lot of that taking place too.
33:29That is, the easiest way to conquer the West
33:31is to conquer the West from within.
33:35And I think the West has demonstrated,
33:37at least right now,
33:38that it's very weak
33:39and it doesn't understand the mindset of the Islamists.
33:42No?
33:42We'll take the most obvious one, Mark.
33:44After 9-11,
33:46why is it that in America
33:47and every Muslim,
33:49every Western European country
33:51and Canada and so on,
33:52Muslim migration ramped up historically.
33:56After 9-11,
33:58after the first major taste
34:00the West had
34:01of what Islamic fundamentalism means,
34:03okay, a proportion,
34:05a minority proportion
34:06of Muslim communities around the world
34:08support that.
34:08But even if it's 5%,
34:1110%, 15% support that,
34:14you would have thought
34:15that you would not ramp up Muslim migration.
34:17But that's exactly what the West has done
34:19for the last quarter of a century.
34:21It makes no sense
34:22because we were already grappling
34:25with domestic homegrown threats
34:2725 years ago.
34:29We were already grappling with that.
34:31So why is it
34:32where the situation today
34:33where, for instance,
34:34three quarters of British Muslims
34:36believe that Hamas
34:37didn't carry out any atrocities
34:38on October the 7th?
34:40How did we get here?
34:42Madness.
34:43Yeah, no, you're 100% right.
34:44And when we come back,
34:46it's gotten even worse.
34:48This poison of Jew hatred
34:49and anti-Semitism
34:50in the United States
34:52is an American hatred too.
34:54And we're seeing it
34:55not just with the Marxist-Islamist left,
34:57we're seeing it
34:58with the isolationist,
35:00sort of almost Klansman-like right.
35:03And are you concerned about that?
35:07What about the future
35:08of our ally, Israel?
35:11What is the consequence of this
35:13if it continues to go unabated?
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