The Celebrity Traitors UK Uncloaked S01E07

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The Celebrity Traitors UK Uncloaked Season 1 Episode 7.   #TheCelebrityTraitors #TheCelebrityTraitorsUK #Uncloaked #TheTraitors

Transcript

00:00Hello there and welcome to the Celebrity Traitors Uncloaked, the official visualised podcast hosted by me, Ed Gamble.

00:06Now before I say anything else, this episode is stuffed to the gills with spoilers.

00:10So if you haven't watched the latest episode of the Celebrity Traitors, then get yourself onto BBC iPlayer and do that right now.

00:16Now that I've got that over with, I can finally play this noise.

00:20No, not that one. This one.

00:22Yes, they've finally caught their very first traitor.

00:28Having weathered several storms of suspicion, the game finally caught up with Jonathan Ross and the faithful banished him at the round table.

00:35So what's coming up in tonight's episode?

00:38Murdered faithful Lucy Bomer will be joining us from beyond the grave.

00:42Jonathan Ross returns from the banishment to talk about his time in the traitor's turret.

00:46Plus, Series 1 traitor Wilf and Series 3 traitor Mina will be offering their expert insight into the game so far.

00:58Well, thank you all so much for joining me on Uncloaked.

01:00I'm very excited that I'm joined by not one, not two, but three horrible traitors.

01:06Wilf, Mina and Jonathan Ross, of course.

01:10When you say horrible, you mean because we didn't get to the end?

01:14It's a double meaning.

01:15He's a bad traitor.

01:17Horrible at being a traitor.

01:18Useless, three useless traitors.

01:20Three losers on the show.

01:21He wouldn't have said that to Harry, was he?

01:22No, he wouldn't have said that to Harry.

01:23No way.

01:24Harry scares me.

01:26Jonathan, welcome.

01:27Welcome to Uncloaked.

01:28How does it feel now that the celebrity traitors is out in the world, people are seeing what's happening?

01:33It's interesting.

01:33I mean, it's strange.

01:35It's like most things to do with traitors.

01:37I don't think you can predict how it's going to feel at any stage.

01:41And so it's out there.

01:42And so I was kind of looking forward to it and kind of dreading it at the same time.

01:46And the dread hasn't been felt as much as I feared it might.

01:50And I think most of the other traitors, I don't expect all of them, but I think most of us feel the same way.

01:54It's quite exciting to see it out there.

01:55It's quite annoying because people want to talk to you about it all the time.

01:59Yeah, sorry about that.

02:00And I'm sure that guy's down.

02:01No.

02:02But it is like, and they'll say stuff like, they'll ask you quite a long question and say,

02:05don't spoil it.

02:05And you think, well, why are you asking me anything?

02:08And I obviously don't say anything.

02:09Will, for Mina, what are you thinking in terms of Jonathan's traitor score?

02:13If you give him a score out of 10 for his time as a traitor?

02:16Please don't hold back.

02:18No, I won't.

02:19Because I'm not going to take it at all personally.

02:21I'd rather you be as honest, and let's face it, as cruel as I know you both can be.

02:26I haven't seen you in the show.

02:27Okay, I will give you a seven.

02:30Oh, that's a high score.

02:31And it's only that high because you lasted seven episodes.

02:34It would have been, you know, the first traitor out, it's not great.

02:38And Wilf, your score for me?

02:40I'm going to give you a five.

02:41Five?

02:41Listen, listen.

02:42I think these are very hard scores.

02:44Five, right?

02:44No, I think that's a fair one, but this one needs to explain it.

02:46Because you went out before Alan Carr.

02:49Yeah.

02:49And Alan Carr at times, from what I've watched, was the most obvious traitor.

02:54But Wilf.

02:54But it's working.

02:55But Wilf.

02:56Yeah.

02:56Don't you know that the people who seem like they don't know what's going on,

03:00and the people who seem confused and bumbling,

03:02they're the ones that get overlooked.

03:03Because everyone always thinks like,

03:05like even the year that Harry won,

03:06even though he wasn't as confused,

03:07but he was acting the sweet, innocent kid

03:08who didn't really know what was going on

03:10and was quite kind of harmless.

03:11Yeah.

03:11And so they do survive well.

03:13And I, I mean, I, you know,

03:14I didn't make any predictions to which one of us would last the longest.

03:18You know, I didn't want to play that game at all.

03:20But I genuinely thought, from the minute we were up there,

03:22I thought I will be the first of these three to go out.

03:24Really?

03:25Even seeing Alan talk very loudly many times

03:29about what the traitor's been doing in front of the whole group.

03:33How did that feel?

03:34It felt sort of endearing in a way, you know,

03:37and I never once thought, oh, good, he'll, you know,

03:39because I didn't want to see either of them get out.

03:40Yeah.

03:40I really didn't.

03:41You know, I just wanted to see one traitor make it to the end.

03:45On the point of Alan,

03:46he's now just openly laughing when people are, people are murdered.

03:49I can't, I, honestly.

03:50On the round table.

03:51Yeah, the round table and at breakfast when it's like,

03:54this person's not come back, he's just laughing.

03:55It's a great tool as well because he laughs at everything,

03:58even when someone's saying, I think you're a traitor.

03:59He'll laugh now.

04:01And it's like, it's amazing because one of the things

04:04that I think you also appreciate game is that consistency

04:06is very important.

04:07Yeah.

04:07And he is consistently Alan.

04:09Yeah.

04:10More so than he was.

04:11And once again, I suffered a bit there, I think,

04:13because Kat is very cool, calm, collected all the time.

04:15All the time.

04:16Whereas I, I think I struggled more with it than the two of them.

04:22And I was like trying to keep myself focused in a way

04:25that they didn't seem to have to.

04:27Kat, because she was just, you know, could compartmentalise.

04:29And Alan, because I think he forgot what was going on.

04:32Quite a lot of the time.

04:33It's a good skill to have.

04:34I mean, he has been on quite a journey though,

04:36because when he was selected as a traitor,

04:37I thought he's never going to stop sweating.

04:39Yes.

04:39He's amazing.

04:40Did he stop sweating?

04:41Nope.

04:41I think he's still sweating now.

04:44I genuinely went in thinking, I didn't mind what I was.

04:47I said, yeah, I really said,

04:49I don't mind if I'm a faithful or a traitor.

04:51And then I said, I guess I'd rather, ideally,

04:54be a faithful, be recruited.

04:55You can't guarantee that.

04:56So then I said, okay, I'd probably rather be a traitor.

04:58Yeah.

04:58So I think I'd have been a better faithful than most of them.

05:01Because.

05:04It's funny to watch a traitor getting frustrated

05:07with the faithful playing the game badly.

05:09They could not believe they didn't get Alan for killing Paloma.

05:13Yeah.

05:13And we weren't trying to set him up.

05:14It just made sense that he was the one who could conceivably do it,

05:17knowing the recently deceased would be interrogated the next day.

05:21Who could touch someone's face?

05:22If I touch someone's face, it's going to be weird.

05:24And if Kat, we know Kat wasn't touching anyone.

05:26She made it clear she doesn't really like being touched.

05:28So Alan was the person to go for.

05:29But when it first came out,

05:30what was fascinating was the number of other faithfuls who shut it down.

05:34Yeah.

05:34Who leapt to his defence and went, it wouldn't be Alan.

05:36Yeah.

05:37And I tried to help that.

05:38I don't know if you saw, but in the graveyard,

05:39when we actually put the lid on the coffin,

05:40I said, someone said, it might have been me,

05:42someone said a few words.

05:43I said, it should be Alan because he knew her best.

05:45And I was trying to position him in their heads as the person who cared for them.

05:49And you were just trolling a little bit as well.

05:51That was a wonderful TV.

05:53But then afterwards, this is why I am somewhat stupid when it comes to games.

05:56After I went home and said, oh no, that's worse though.

05:58Because that would make people think, if I was a faithful,

06:00I think, well, who is the least likely person to have killed her?

06:02And that would be Alan.

06:04Yeah.

06:04And the fact they shut it down just based on supposedly on this friendship outside,

06:07and they are friends, it doesn't matter.

06:08You're going to kill your friends in there.

06:10That's what he says.

06:11Yeah.

06:11My whole strategy, I said from the beginning, just murder your friends.

06:15If you're a traitor, just murder your friends.

06:17You can patch it over afterwards.

06:18That's absolutely fine.

06:19So in the conclave, you had a very united front together.

06:24But outside of the conclave, there was no cohesiveness to who you were voting for.

06:29Not really.

06:30I mean, I think that's probably a good way to play it, to be honest with you.

06:32I thought Claire had me bang to right.

06:36So I did kind of help orchestrate that.

06:39But most of the time, we really...

06:40It's quite random, it seemed.

06:41Well, I think deliberately so, because I think it doesn't matter.

06:44It just causes chaos as well.

06:45Everybody thinks they've got a theory, and then someone goes...

06:47It works either way.

06:48If you murder someone who's been saying your name,

06:51you do what I did when we murdered Ruth and say,

06:54obviously I wouldn't murder Ruth.

06:55Yeah.

06:56Jonathan, now that you've seen the episodes,

06:57you've seen conversations that were happening when you weren't there

06:59and how people were talking about you.

07:01Do you think there's anything that you could have done to survive any longer?

07:04I think yes.

07:05The night we killed Lucy, and I didn't want to kill Lucy that night.

07:08I actually wanted to kill Joe, but he had a shield, I think.

07:10Yes, he did, yeah.

07:11And Joe, see, I would have taken Joe out then.

07:13Yeah, yeah.

07:14Because Lucy had got me,

07:16and I'm pretty sure she was convinced and she was right, of course.

07:18But I think Lucy could perhaps have been steered away from me

07:23or I could have alienated her from others so they didn't support her, I think.

07:27I think there was enough interest in how Lucy was playing it

07:30for me to maybe be able to massage that into a theory against her.

07:33But when we killed Lucy on the chessboard,

07:37I actually felt quite happy killing Lucy because...

07:40Well, we could tell.

07:41Alan and Kat were looking really serious and made,

07:43and you had a big smile on your face.

07:43It was the first time, because I kind of know Lucy,

07:47and I really like Lucy, and I thought,

07:48this is going to be fine, because she knows me and I know her,

07:51and it's a game.

07:52So I was like, for the first time, I was like,

07:54ha-ha, we got you.

07:55And then she looked really sad.

07:57And as I went off, I shouted, see, you want to be here?

07:59And then she sounded sad, and then I started feeling,

08:03oh, that was horrible.

08:05I hadn't meant it to be horrible.

08:06I meant it to be like, oh, you think it's funny I killed you,

08:09and I think it's funny I killed you.

08:10And it wasn't.

08:11And I just sort of had no appetite for murder anymore.

08:15I'd seen what murder is.

08:18I'd looked into the eyes of an innocent victim

08:21and decided this isn't really for me.

08:24And so when I was going in, I was thinking, okay, I've got to say,

08:26I've got to go in and say, oh, if it's Lucy that doesn't come in,

08:30you know what that means.

08:31They're setting me up.

08:32Didn't say that.

08:33Yeah.

08:33And then during the day when no one mentioned it to me,

08:35I thought, okay, I could turn this to my advantage, maybe,

08:37by going around to them saying, look, can I just say,

08:39one by one saying, no one's mentioned Lucy's death pointing at me,

08:42and I didn't mention it because I want to see

08:45who's trying to lead you against me.

08:46And whoever's talking about me in that way,

08:48and whoever's talking to me, I just want you to keep an eye on them.

08:50And I think I might have been able to turn the tide a bit.

08:52And I felt thoroughly disgusted with myself as a human being

08:55for murdering such a sweet woman from Hull.

08:58I do have to rethink your score because I just,

09:02what you've just said then, I'm going with the five.

09:05You're going with the five.

09:06High five.

09:07High five.

09:08Do you know what the best part?

09:10You know what?

09:10I like that five because that five is because I'm showing my humanity.

09:15Yes.

09:15Yeah.

09:15And traitors don't show humanity.

09:17As a matter of fact, I'm now working on getting a one from both of you.

09:20I begin to feel okay about myself again.

09:23Now, we're talking a lot about Lucy already.

09:25And happily, Lucy will be joining us right after we see what she had to say

09:29moments after she was murdered up in the Highlands.

09:38Hi, Lucy.

09:39Welcome to Uncloaked.

09:41What are you doing?

09:42Good.

09:42Grab a seat.

09:48Lucy, welcome to Uncloaked.

09:49Thank you so much for joining us.

09:50Thank you, Ed.

09:51I'm sorry that you were murdered.

09:53It's okay.

09:54It's not your fault, or was it?

09:55No, no, no, no, no, no.

09:57Does it get to that point in the game where you're suspecting everyone and everything,

10:00though?

10:00Yeah.

10:01Yeah.

10:02I still am now.

10:03You know Claire Balding?

10:05Yeah, yes.

10:06I've heard of her.

10:07I still think she's a traitor.

10:10No, no, but I'm being serious.

10:12You think there's going to be another twist?

10:14A sequel.

10:15Yeah.

10:15Where we'll all come back.

10:17And then we'll find out who the real traitors are.

10:19Who were you saddest to see leave?

10:22Joe Wilkinson.

10:24Because he was, like, well, we've both known him years, haven't we?

10:27But he's just so funny.

10:29He's just such a good energy to have around.

10:32That was a real blow.

10:33But Paloma, well, like, it's like Paloma, like, she is, like, she's a superstar.

10:39Like, she's so fun to be around.

10:43Such an interesting person.

10:45It was like, why would you take, like, I was shocked, you know.

10:49And then you did think, oh, my God, the mean business, you know.

10:52It did really, it sort of shut us all up a bit.

10:54And that was very early on as well.

10:56Yeah.

10:56Did you feel the mood change then when Paloma was murdered?

10:59Well, I think that first round table, we were so worried to sort of speak our mind.

11:05Because it's like, whoever speaks their mind is going to go.

11:09And they did.

11:10Turning to the round tables, how did you find the round tables?

11:14Do you think you were good and useful at the round tables?

11:17I got better.

11:19I was a bit intimidated at the first round table.

11:25I found it really, really, just weird.

11:29And also, like, you know that, like, what am I doing here?

11:33I'm 41 years old.

11:35I'm in a castle trying to hunt down a traitor.

11:40You know, it's like, what's going on?

11:41And, but I was intimidated.

11:47And I think if I had, if I'd have had an inkling about anything, I just felt I didn't have anything to go on.

11:56So I thought, well, if I do, I'm not going to start incriminating people for the sake of it.

12:00They did a clever thing because by taking out who, you know, Paloma definitely was the loudest, most outgoing person of the group.

12:07By taking her out first, it almost felt like they were saying, just keep quiet a bit.

12:14Right.

12:14Because if you're loud and spoken, you could be next.

12:18It's mad that Jonathan and Alan know her the best and they took her out first.

12:25I was surprised about that because that was getting them off the hook.

12:29But of course they knew that, didn't they?

12:31Yeah.

12:31So clever.

12:33OK, Lucy, let's talk about your face-to-face murder.

12:36Yeah.

12:36A huge moment in the show.

12:38How did you feel when you turned around on the chessboard and the three traitors were standing there?

12:42Oh my God, it was such a shock.

12:45I mean, it was quite thrilling, but it was really eerie when they've got the cloak.

12:48It's those cloaks.

12:50Yeah.

12:51And when they took them off, because I think I saw Alan's first and was so surprised.

12:57And then Jonathan and then Kat.

13:00And I was so, I was genuinely felt betrayed by Kat.

13:04I mean, I'm over it now, but I did.

13:08Why were you so shocked by Kat?

13:11Because it was genuine.

13:13I was quite hurt in the moment.

13:15And, but she, at least she's seen sheepish.

13:19The other two didn't at all.

13:20They weren't embarrassed at all.

13:22But because we were becoming really good friends.

13:26And I totally trusted her.

13:28Yeah.

13:28When she said she wasn't.

13:30Because it was like, right, at least we've got each other.

13:33You know.

13:34I can't believe it.

13:36I still can't believe it.

13:37It was so well played.

13:38And I think she'll win.

13:40Because there's always someone you would incriminate before her.

13:44Yeah.

13:44Her and Nick, they're very calming to be around.

13:47And when someone's calming to be around, you trust them.

13:51Lucy, thank you so much for joining me on Uncloaked.

13:54It's been a pleasure to see you.

13:55Oh, you too.

13:56Sorry, you got killed.

13:57It's okay.

13:58I'll get over it.

13:59Now joining us from Beyond the Grave, it's Lucy Beaumont.

14:07Hello, Lucy.

14:08Lucy, first.

14:09Hiya.

14:09Hello, Lucy.

14:10Thank you so much for coming back on the show.

14:12We have Jonathan with us in the studio.

14:15This is obviously the first time you've seen him since he murdered you.

14:17Do you have anything to say to him?

14:19No, no.

14:20I've got over it now.

14:21Obviously, at the time, it did something.

14:24It brought past trauma or something.

14:26But now I don't really mind, really.

14:31He had all the outfits for it, didn't he?

14:33Anyway, he dressed like a traitor.

14:37You did dress like a traitor.

14:38I don't even have noticed that.

14:39Well, on that, yeah, I did have more outfits.

14:41Remember I told you, I think, I bought some really ridiculous outfits on,

14:44even by my standards.

14:45I bought a full goth outfit in one day.

14:48And I bought a new romantic outfit in and a punk outfit.

14:52But then when I saw people were sad when they were banished,

14:56I thought, I don't want them to be looking down

14:57at a sort of like overweight, mid-60s man with eyeliner on

15:02and that his hair teased up with kind of fake tears in his eyes.

15:08That's going to really be a scar they might never recover from.

15:12So I kept them at the back of the wardrobe.

15:14Oh, I'm gutted.

15:14I would have absolutely loved that.

15:15That would have been amazing.

15:16Lucy, how's it been to have the show go out in the world?

15:19How's the reaction been?

15:20Yeah, it is weird.

15:21It never seemed real at the time.

15:24Do you know what I mean?

15:25It's weird that, oh, it is a real show.

15:28Does that make sense?

15:30I know what you mean.

15:31You're obviously not saying that when you were filming it,

15:34you thought this isn't going to go out.

15:35But it just, do you mean you're so immersed in the game

15:37when you're in there, you almost forget that it's a TV show?

15:40Yeah, I took it too seriously.

15:42Someone did come to me and say that,

15:44you know, they're not really getting murdered.

15:45You don't have to just chill out.

15:51And it did help.

15:51And we go, oh, yeah.

15:52Because I was, you know, when I was in my bed at night,

15:56I was doing, like, diagrams and things.

15:58Can you talk us through these diagrams, please, Lucy?

16:01Yeah, yeah.

16:02Well, I did everyone round the round table

16:05and then I had, like, arrows, you know, between everything.

16:08But then I got a bit confused.

16:09And then I fell asleep.

16:10Obviously, a huge moment where you're murdered

16:16face-to-face on the chessboard.

16:18Mina, you were involved in a face-to-face murder

16:20in your series.

16:21Can you offer Lucy any words of encouragement

16:23following her horrible death?

16:25I'm really sorry you had to go through that,

16:28but I imagine it was the traitor's best moment.

16:31It was a huge moment, wasn't it?

16:32I think if you flip it from a traitor being kind,

16:35it's an honour to be the person chosen to be.

16:38Yeah.

16:38Like, you're so important that they feel

16:41that you deserve to see them murder you.

16:43Yeah.

16:44It's the best way to be murdered.

16:45I wouldn't want to be murdered

16:46and you don't get to see anyone or you just go home.

16:48Oh, no, I much preferred murdering

16:50and them not knowing, frankly.

16:51I loved murdering in the shadows.

16:54Stalking in the shadows was great.

16:55Lucy, I almost wish we had Nick here

16:57so you could give him both barrels

16:58about sabotaging that mission.

17:00When he dropped that bombshell at the round table,

17:03how did you feel about that plan that he seemed to have?

17:06Well, this is why it's weird.

17:07And now watching it back

17:10because I didn't realise he thought I was a traitor.

17:14So I just couldn't understand why he'd done it.

17:16I thought it was, like, just because he's, like, into magic and stuff.

17:20But now I get it.

17:22But I didn't get a sense of that.

17:23Again, I thought we were really tight.

17:26But it's weird, isn't it?

17:27That feeling of, like, oh, God, no, he never trusted me.

17:29Yeah, so that was a very bold slash confusing tactic from Nick

17:34to sabotage the mission and then admit to it at the round table.

17:36Yeah, and I think as traitors, we should have made more of that.

17:38We should have made more of that

17:39because we could have capitalised on that.

17:40Yeah.

17:41But at the time, at that stage,

17:42I think we were kind of just wheeling a little bit.

17:45Our names were coming up more

17:46and we were thinking, okay, well, if it's not pointing at us,

17:48it's not pointing at us.

17:49And, you know, and I was convinced at that stage,

17:52and I think I'm right,

17:52I think Nick was convinced I was a faithful at that stage.

17:54So I didn't want to pile on Nick because I needed support.

17:57But I think people were pretty set on Nick being a faithful.

18:00I think he's as close as you can get to 100% faithful in there, I think.

18:04Yeah, I think so.

18:05Of the three traitors, I think Cat was the smartest of the three of us

18:08in terms of understanding how the game was actually playing in the moment.

18:11You know, and then it's not saying much,

18:14but I was better than Alan.

18:18Lucy, you mentioned that you felt very betrayed

18:20when you found out Cat was a traitor

18:22because you'd grown so close.

18:23How are you feeling now?

18:25Yeah, I've had some, like, long walks in the countryside.

18:29Yeah, no, I'm absolutely, yeah, fine about it.

18:33Yeah.

18:34Yeah, I was upset, wasn't I?

18:36Yeah, well, you were upset.

18:37But then when I spoke to you, as soon as I got out,

18:39you were one of the first people I called

18:40because that was so on my mind.

18:42I was genuinely upset I'd done that.

18:44And I called you and I said, like, I was upset.

18:46Oh, no, I was ready to go, though.

18:48Well, I knew you had your VAT returns to do as well.

18:50You told me.

18:51And I thought, you told me,

18:52and I thought, I'm actually doing her a favour.

18:54Because you were very worried about your VAT returns.

18:56And I thought, well, that'll make me feel better.

18:58No, but I did feel sad.

18:59No, don't, you don't have to make me feel better.

19:01I killed you.

19:04But what you're forgetting is you knew you were going to see me.

19:07Yeah.

19:07I didn't know it was, the shock was, you can't believe it.

19:13Yeah.

19:14But it's like we're back from the dead or something.

19:16Yeah.

19:16You know, seeing people.

19:18Lucy, you're not with us for very much longer,

19:19but this is your opportunity to get whatever you like off your chest to Jonathan.

19:24Any closing remarks from you?

19:25No, just only that you've played a good game.

19:29And, obviously, my respect for you has gone down massively.

19:35But, you know, I hope your career thrives.

19:38I really do.

19:39And I wish you all the best.

19:44Like, I was just so mesmerised by the amount of textures and textiles you wore.

19:52Only you could pull that off, Jonathan.

19:54Finally, Lucy, are you still suspicious of Claire?

19:57Claire Balding's my number one.

19:58Do we go back again?

20:00I'm still sort of like half anxious, like, still a little bit in gameplay mode.

20:05Well, pack your bags.

20:06You're off to the castle today.

20:08There's a car coming for you right now.

20:10You're back in.

20:13Thank you so much for joining us, Lucy.

20:15It's nice to see you, Liz.

20:16See you.

20:17So, obviously, at the end of tonight's episode, it was a huge moment.

20:20The first traitor banished.

20:22Jonathan was out.

20:23And he had the faithful on the edge of their seats right until the very end.

20:27I've got no idea what everyone's doing wrong.

20:31I cannot believe you've done it again.

20:33I cannot believe that I'm standing here for no good reason.

20:39So, I don't want to be rude, but you're idiots.

20:43But I'm not judging because it's fiendish.

20:46So, I am not blaming the players.

20:49I'm blaming the game.

20:52I am now, and I have been all through the game completely faithful.

20:56To the traitors!

21:03So good.

21:14So good.

21:14What an exit to be.

21:15It was worth it for Joe's reaction.

21:16Because I thought I could get most of them going, apart from Celia and Joe.

21:20Yeah.

21:20I thought they were the two.

21:21But when Joe looked genuinely shaken, I thought, good.

21:24I've achieved something.

21:25Yeah, Nick had bought it at Hookline.

21:26Oh my God, Nick was invested.

21:28I've never seen him look so confused.

21:30Nick was still on the fence about me a bit, I think.

21:32And he thought, well, we've got to try this.

21:33And it probably is him.

21:34And Joe was so convinced, and he was so convinced.

21:36Joe was faithful, so it was, you know.

21:38Did you count in your head how long you're going to wait until you say the traitors?

21:42I just thought I'd keep doing it until I sense Claudia getting nervous.

21:46And then run it out.

21:48But, you know, but it is quite nerve-wracking.

21:49But it's also, it is, weirdly, a relief when you're standing here.

21:54It's a relief when you're found.

21:55You know, it's like, thank God the lying can stop.

21:58Yeah.

21:58Do you know what I love?

21:59Jonathan was, when we were watching that clip, Kat's eyebrows almost frowned up as if she thought for a second that you were going to pay for it.

22:07Did anyone else get on to that?

22:08That was incredible work from Kat in the reactions.

22:10She was so good at keeping it tamped down.

22:13But even Alan's quite consistent, though.

22:15Like, he laughed at everybody, and he still laughed at you.

22:17We saw it at the beginning of the clip.

22:19He was, like, grinning from ear to ear.

22:20It's what we call a very generous audience.

22:22Yeah.

22:24Obviously, it's taken a long time for them to find their first trait.

22:27I know.

22:28And you know what?

22:28Genuinely, I'm surprised.

22:30Yeah.

22:30Genuinely, all three of us were surprised.

22:32Well, you did call them idiots.

22:33Yeah.

22:33But that was playful and affectionate.

22:36I don't think they were bad faithfuls at all, and I don't think we were particularly good or bad traitors.

22:40I think just the fiendish nature of this game is that there are so many moving parts.

22:45It's such a kind of – it's like if you've ever studied fluid mechanics in physics, it's one of the most difficult things.

22:50Because you can predict how things are, but it's incredibly fiendish, the amount of computations you have to do.

22:56This is close to fluid mechanics.

22:57It's like, you know, you drop a pebble in something and, you know, it can interact and then so many different things.

23:02Every time something's said, you don't know what's going to be picked up on and how that impact it's going to have on you and then you and by the time it gets to me and whether it's going to be lessened or more, whether it's going to be ignored completely and not seen or whether –

23:14So there's – you know, I don't – I didn't actually think they were stupid or bad at the game.

23:19I just think it was – if anything, I think we were a little luckier than we deserved to be.

23:24I think you guys were great traitors and Lucy actually mentioned it just before when you guys murdered Paloma.

23:30It shook everyone.

23:31So I think they were so scared on the round tables to say too much because they thought you guys are going to take them out.

23:37You know, Tom had opinions and then he was murdered.

23:40Well, Tom did go because of his opinions because I think I sensed with Tom and with Charlotte, my feeling about them was that they weren't going to let go.

23:46They were so true to their opinions.

23:48The benefit of us with someone like Lucy was that she was somewhat malleable.

23:51Yes.

23:52But then she's given us credit for murdering Paloma, but as you saw, that was kind of a random act.

23:56Yeah.

23:56It was an opportunity.

23:58It was like, look, I knew it would probably be Paloma.

24:01It could just as well have been – I think Ruth was in there.

24:03If Paloma had left first, it might well have been Ruth.

24:05And I think as well, like, when you've got people that hang on evidence instead of changing their evidence every day,

24:12you get rid of them because they don't forget things.

24:15Yeah.

24:15What did you think – the big dog theory obviously really took off.

24:18Yeah.

24:19Well, it was slightly annoying because obviously it was focused on me, but it's really based on nothing.

24:24Yeah.

24:25I mean, it's based on an idea from outside the game.

24:27And, you know, I don't even know now whether you could legitimately say it was a good theory.

24:32Like, who do you consider the big dogs now?

24:34Okay, me and Steve will mention Claire's a big dog.

24:36Yeah.

24:36She's huge in her field.

24:37Alan's one of the biggest – he's a stadium comedian.

24:40Claire is big in dogs.

24:41Yeah, Claire's huge in dogs.

24:42She's got all the dogs watching for her.

24:43And the dogs hate me now.

24:46But, you know, so there were a lot of people who could have been, you know, Tom Daly, an Olympian.

24:50He's multiple medal-winning Olympian.

24:53It's like – so it didn't really make sense apart from it was convenient for some.

24:57Yeah.

24:57Did you see yourself as a leader within the turrets?

25:00Not at all.

25:00You seemed like one, though.

25:02I think I was – look, we've all met men.

25:08And men automatically – can I speak for us both here?

25:12Yes.

25:12Men automatically think their voice should be heard in a group.

25:17And so inevitably I was partly, you know, that's my years of conditioning.

25:21But we listened to Kat as much, if not more, than me.

25:25I think more – you know, if you were to break it down,

25:26and I think more of the decisions as to who we murdered came from or were guided by Kat.

25:31At the time, were you aware of this pact that Alan and Kat had made to throw you under the bus?

25:36It was interesting, though.

25:37I think Kat was more ready to do it than Alan.

25:39But you was dropping names here, there and everywhere.

25:41You were throwing out Alan and Kat now and again.

25:43I knew I was going to go that day.

25:44I put it so hard.

25:45And I thought, if I haven't said their names, this is bad for them.

25:48Oh, okay.

25:48Oh.

25:49And so I said their names, but I didn't use any persuasion.

25:52You know, I didn't give any good reason.

25:54I just said, well, who are the people – maybe we should look at the people we haven't been looking at,

25:56like Kat and like Alan, you know, the quieter voices.

25:59And Joe was interesting.

26:00And I was pretty sure, you know, I knew almost without doubt,

26:02Joe was still 100% of me.

26:04Celia was still 100% of me.

26:05So I knew whatever I said was not going to steer them towards –

26:10unless they had second-guessed me and thought, oh, he's saying traitors' names.

26:12But that's very unlikely.

26:13So I wanted to make sure before I went that I'd said their names to a couple of people.

26:17And I did.

26:18I said – I think that was the only day I said their names.

26:21And I said I dropped it in a few times, but very lightly.

26:24It's quite nice and unique to have a traitor that doesn't want to throw the other traitors under the bus when they go.

26:29It's quite nice, actually.

26:30I probably would have done, you know, if it had come to it in the round table, if I had to.

26:34But I didn't want to.

26:35And to be honest with you, of the three of us, even now, if I was planning again,

26:39I'd rather it be me that went first.

26:40Well, Mina, you had a situation where you finally trusted another traitor and that was the end of you.

26:45Was this Charlotte?

26:46Yeah.

26:46You can't trust the Welsh.

26:48She's not even Welsh.

26:49Exactly.

26:50That's what I'm saying.

26:51Because I like Welsh people.

26:53Honestly, yeah, you guys haven't yet had to recruit.

26:56Obviously, I don't know what's going to come up next.

26:59But recruiting somebody is the most dangerous thing for a traitor.

27:02It's horrible as well.

27:03Because there is kind of trust within yourselves when you start together.

27:06You're on this journey together.

27:08And yes, there's times where you're going to have to vote each other out.

27:10But it's because you have to.

27:12Whereas when you recruit someone, they can't trust you because they've watched what you've done.

27:17Jonathan, for any future traitors out there, do you have any advice that you'd give them?

27:21I think going, being prepared.

27:23I mean, you've got to go in with a fairly strong sense of self.

27:25And I would say also, you know, it's the thing that we all know really is don't be too loud.

27:30Don't be too quiet.

27:31Don't be too quick.

27:32Don't be too slow.

27:33Don't be too forthright.

27:34Don't hold yourself back too much.

27:35You've got to stay in the middle without that itself looking suspicious.

27:39Unless you're someone that they know is going to be big.

27:41And that's why I think Alan and Kat are playing such a brilliant game.

27:43Because Alan is being bigger than you think might keep you safe in the game.

27:48But if he wasn't, that would be madly suspicious.

27:50Why aren't you being like Alan?

27:52And Kat is being reserved and calm and kind of like, you know, quite introverted.

27:55Because that is her.

27:57Well, that's all we've got time for here.

27:59But don't fret.

27:59The chat continues on BBC Sounds.

28:02Jonathan, Wilf and Mina will be hanging around to discuss friends amongst the faithful,

28:05teammates in the Traitors' Turret and post-game life.

28:08It's all in the bonus episode of the Celebrity Traitors Uncloaked in your BBC Sounds app right now.

28:13Find that in your app store or just scan the QR code below.

28:16A huge thank you to Jonathan Ross, Lucy Beaumont, Wilf and Mina for joining in the fun.

28:20We'll be back tomorrow night after episode 8 to find out who Alan tries to murder in plain sight

28:25and who's the last person to get banished before the final.

28:28I'm Ed Gamble.

28:29Stay faithful.

28:29They've added you, so join in the unfiltered chat, Tom Grennan and Roman Kemp.

28:39You about?

28:39On BBC Sounds.

28:41While on iPlayer, the search for the next superstar continues RuPaul's Drag Race UK.

28:46Press red now.

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