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00:00Hi, I'm Sean Ryan, and this is a little segment on the DVD that we're calling the Directors
00:10Roundtable.
00:11We've assembled three of our best directors from the show to talk about The Shield and
00:16what it's like to direct.
00:18Joining us from Toronto via the teleconferencing, videoconferencing magic that exists, we have
00:27Scott Brazile, who in addition to being a director on our show, is also an executive producer
00:31on the show, and is the guy who makes things work, in addition to being the whitest man
00:38on the show.
00:39Although there is competition.
00:41There is competition.
00:43Scott's career began on Hill Street Blues, he was nominated for four Emmys, and he won
00:49two.
00:50He has two of those little statues you see at home.
00:53On the far side here, I have Paris Barkley, who himself, I believe, has been nominated
00:59for five Emmys.
01:00Five.
01:01But who's counting?
01:02Jesus.
01:03He also has won two.
01:04It's not fair, man.
01:05I haven't been nominated for anything.
01:06And then in the middle, in the middle here, we have Peter Horton, who in the late 80s,
01:10his hair became famous.
01:12No, I'm just kidding.
01:15Peter, in addition to...
01:16It's in a museum, actually.
01:17Peter, in addition to starring on 30-something, Segway used that, I guess, as a springboard
01:25to direct, and direct on 30-something, right?
01:28I swear.
01:29Yeah, I swear.
01:30More recently, Once and Again, and the new ABC show, Lines of Duty.
01:35And there's Katherine Dent's favorite director.
01:37She told me!
01:38She told me!
01:39Did she really?
01:40She said that to everybody.
01:41She said the same thing to me about...
01:42She told me!
01:43Well, not you, but...
01:44You paled by comparison to Peter Horton.
01:45Can you be more like Peter Horton?
01:47So, these are the three directors we have here, and...
01:50All with her legs crossed.
01:52I just...
01:53Well, I didn't realize the camera would be, you know...
01:56I wouldn't have worn shorts if I knew what the camera angle was going to be.
01:59I'm sure that's true.
02:00But anyways, let's talk about directing the show.
02:03Scott, let's start with you.
02:05You wear two hats.
02:07You've directed the most episodes for us.
02:10I think it's up to six or seven on the show.
02:13But you also are one of the first lines of defense that deals with visiting directors
02:18when they come to the show.
02:20What do you tell directors?
02:24Such great respect for your visiting directors.
02:27It's really...
02:28Didn't you feel that?
02:29Just tremendous...
02:30I felt the love.
02:31I felt the love, too, yeah.
02:32Go ahead.
02:33What are some of the things that you tell directors as they're about to come about
02:36what it's like to direct on The Shield?
02:38Don't fuck it up.
02:39And here, I so want to say I told Paris not to do what he's been doing all his career.
02:44I told Peter not to do what he's been doing all his career.
02:47I almost feel like turning it around and saying,
02:49I don't remember.
02:50What did we talk about, guys?
02:52It seems to me that with respect to almost every director, especially as we've come into the second season,
02:58there's enough material for people to have gleaned a lot from season one.
03:04And with respect to both directors that are not in the room with me, they knew the show pretty well when we all got together.
03:12They have a great sense of performance, and I think that's what we talk about.
03:15As you talk about with the directors, naturalistic performances, trying not to be theatrical, trying to ensure that the camera doesn't anticipate the action,
03:26that sort of quasi-documentary style that Clark Johnson sort of came up with, and we've tried to polish ever since and reinvent regularly.
03:37I think those are the main issues.
03:40Peter, let's start with you.
03:42You directed two episodes for us this year, Carte Blanche, which was our fourth episode of the year,
03:47and Co-Pilot, which was our controversial flashback episode.
03:52Number nine, how did this show differ from other shows you worked on in terms of style or dealing with the actors?
04:01What was different about our show than some of the others you've directed?
04:06Just about everything.
04:08It's such an interesting experiment in directing, because the style, and it's an addictive experiment, because it's so improvisational.
04:21But it's controlled.
04:22It can ruin you, can't it?
04:23It can totally ruin you.
04:24Sorry to interrupt.
04:25No, it can really wreck you, because it's so addictive.
04:29It's really true.
04:31The style innately is so spontaneous and kind of controlled chaos that when you do try and go back to, because not all material is serviced by this kind of shooting.
04:45And so when you go back and try and do more traditional stuff, it's hard to kind of kick back to it, because it's so much...
04:53I mean, most directing is so premeditated and planned.
04:57I mean, there's always, you know, when you get on the set, you're always changing things.
05:01But it's always within a pretty defined framework.
05:03This is like, you know, Chick Corea in the 70s.
05:07And it's just like this sort of fusion of jazz and rock and roll.
05:14And, you know, you're utilizing not just the set.
05:19You're utilizing the world of the set.
05:21If there's someone looking out of a window, you can take the camera and grab them, and it fits in the show.
05:28The co-pilot episode, when I was directing that, we were out.
05:31This is actually a good way to describe it, if I can tell this story.
05:35Because it sort of is from pre-production all the way through production, describes what we do.
05:40We were out looking for a house for a crack dealer.
05:43Unusual episode.
05:44Can you be more specific?
05:46It was an unusual thing for this show.
05:49But we were looking for a house for a crack dealer.
05:51And the house we found, we really liked, was right across the street from a grocery store parking lot.
05:57And so we were thinking, well, this would work out well.
06:00Because Chick and, I can't, who was with him?
06:03Walton.
06:04Walton.
06:05Were supposedly, you know, eavesdropping through these earplugs on this crack dealer.
06:09So we thought, okay, we'll put them in the parking lot.
06:11And, oh, it's a grocery store parking lot.
06:12Well, we'll have people with shopping carts going by, and that'll tell us it's a grocery store.
06:15It'll sort of describe why they're sitting in this big wide-open space next to this suburban area.
06:20And suddenly, as we were looking at it, there was this carnival about to set up right next to us.
06:25And so suddenly, everyone was going, oh, oh, let's see if we can use the carnival.
06:29And so then there's this flurry of negotiations with these carnies about how long are you going to stay?
06:35When are we going to shoot?
06:36Okay, you're not going to be there.
06:37Okay, but could you leave some stuff up?
06:39And sort of, we'll film it being pulled down.
06:41And suddenly, this whole scene had this added component of this drunk clown who sort of, as the different rides were being pulled apart, sort of stumbles over, sits down in a chair and throws up.
06:56And it was just...
06:57Pukey the clown.
06:58Pukey the clown.
06:59And it was just, it was this sort of added dimension to the piece that is so, you know, immediately satisfying and exciting for a director.
07:09It's so unpremeditated.
07:10And that sort of describes what the whole show is like, I think, and why it's addictive.
07:14Okay, P, let's take a look at your clip.
07:17This is the scene where Vic and Shane are in the car listening to a wiretap, and yet we got carnival madness going on in the background.
07:24So let's take a look.
07:25Screw Ringo.
07:27I'm willing to pay you.
07:28I just don't want to get shot up.
07:30Yeah, smart thinking, sweetie.
07:32So we pulled in?
07:34Nah, not quite.
07:36See, I'd like to know what I'm putting on the streets.
07:38Come here.
07:39Right here.
07:40Who wants to taste the kitty?
07:42Sure.
07:43Just let me run to the bathroom.
07:44What for?
07:45To pop in my diaphragm.
07:47No need, baby girl.
07:49I ain't hitting that raw.
07:51Oh, yeah.
07:56Oh, yeah.
07:57Oh, yeah.
07:59Oh, yeah.
08:00And you think these were like the worst moments of the shield.
08:03Yeah.
08:04So beyond the general level of distaste that scene possesses.
08:09Well, the only other thing to say about this scene is the reason that that's so effective,
08:16just to put it in the context, is what they're listening to is basically this is before they
08:22really started crossing the line and doing the things that they actually do.
08:26And they've convinced this hooker, who's a friend of Chicks, to go in there and try and plant some drugs on this pimp so that they can bust him.
08:37And what the pimp ends up doing is basically raping her up there.
08:40And so it's while they're listening to this happen, what informs the scene is this carnival being deconstructed and this clown who's drunk vomiting.
08:50So it's this strange sort of counter melody to what the scene's about, which is what's really.
08:56I know the thing that made the writers laugh was that he took off his nose to vomit.
09:01That was their favorite thing.
09:03But it's interesting.
09:04It was something that was unscripted.
09:06It's certainly, you know, the network had questions about that when they first saw it because it was something that was not scripted.
09:13And they're like, well, who's the vomiting clown?
09:16But I think it adds a level of what this neighborhood is.
09:20Most of us are accustomed to, you know, the carnival comes to town and, you know, it's sort of a family thing.
09:25This is, you know, shitty part of L.A. carnival.
09:29That's right.
09:30And the other thing that was really fun, too, although it didn't end up in the episode,
09:34there was just by chance one of the other locations that we shot that very night was a few blocks away.
09:41And behind one of our actresses that came up the stairs was the Ferris wheel.
09:46You can see the carnival in the back.
09:47Yeah, that was the scene with Danny and Julian.
09:49That's right.
09:50And they were looking for the stolen food stamps.
09:53That's right. That's right.
09:54And, yeah, and it's a very subtle thing, but it actually tied in the carnival and you had, and you could tell these cops were working the same district.
10:00That's right.
10:01And it was something that, you know, like seven people in America loved.
10:03Right.
10:05Three or four of them being here.
10:06Yeah, four of them, four of them here right now.
10:08Yeah.
10:09Um, Paris, let's talk about you.
10:10You, uh, you won two...
10:11No, no, let's talk about me some more.
10:12Why don't I talk about Peter?
10:13Yeah, let's all talk about Peter.
10:14Um, you won two Emmys, uh, on NYPD Blue, uh, which is a show that certainly has its own style.
10:25Um, how, I'm interested in what you think is different about our show than that show, for instance.
10:32Um, they're, they're both cop shows, they, they really were the vanguard, were the Johnny-come-lately.
10:37Um, we, we've tried to distinguish ourselves.
10:40What's, what's your opinion of, directorially, what's similar and what's different about those two shows?
10:46It's funny, when, um, when Peter was talking, I really, for the first time, realized how NYPD Blue prepared me for The Shield in an odd way.
10:55I mean, I did 13 episodes of NYPD Blue in the time that I was there, and I was the supervising producer,
11:00so I had a lot of the responsibility that Scott has in that show.
11:03So I know when that job is being done really well, and Scott does it really well.
11:06That's my first suck-up.
11:07That's true, that is true.
11:08And it'll be our last, by the way.
11:09It will not be the last.
11:10The suck-ups are going to abound.
11:12But anyway.
11:13These guys apparently wanted to direct in season three.
11:15We were thinking that it might be a nice idea, and if we came and did this DVD, it would ensure success.
11:21Um, anyway, and also, you know, so NYPD Blue is a pseudo kind of documentary,
11:27much more so than, I think, The Shield, which is much closer to a real documentary,
11:31as close to a real documentary as you're really going to get unless you start doing what Homicide did,
11:35which was total jump cuts and forget about the line and all that sort of craziness that they made just, you know, really hectic.
11:41But it's more like what a really good documentary is.
11:44NYPD Blue was always conceived of as an economic necessity.
11:48Instead of being a documentary, you were someone in the room watching the scenes transpire,
11:53which is why they tended to be shot from the same angles.
11:56That was the original great Hoblet idea of it, is that you participate in it.
12:00You don't jump around the room.
12:01You don't do overs.
12:02You're sitting there watching the scene as one of the other people.
12:05And that sort of evolved into less of that as time went on.
12:08But originally that was the concept of that.
12:10So unlike a documentary, it's more like you are there.
12:13But then after doing that and coming to The Shield, I felt the same freedom that you felt.
12:18It's like now we're just trying to capture these scenes and make them look like they were happening for everyone
12:22for the first time, for the viewer, for the people who are filming it, and for the actors.
12:27And that is, I think, the most fun part of The Shield, is that if you can create an environment
12:31where it seems like it's not being written, and it's not actually ever been seen before,
12:35and it's really just being filmed for the first time.
12:37So I do every trick that I knew in the book.
12:40I secretly change the actor's blocking without telling the other actors.
12:43We try to avoid having the camera people get too used to seeing the scene over and over again.
12:48You know, you just embrace all of those things to make it seem like it's really spontaneous.
12:52And I think it works great.
12:53And, you know, we wouldn't let them take focus.
12:55You know, if they're taking focus marks for too long, I'd say,
12:57Stop!
12:58No more focus marks.
12:59We don't want this in focus.
13:01Exactly.
13:02I've already told secretly Walt to walk over where they don't know he's going to go.
13:05And if they keep taking the focus marks, it's just going to irritate me.
13:08It'll be in focus.
13:09So that's the kind of thing that you just don't get to do.
13:13And I think what comes out of that is something that seems like it's much more real than the rest of television.
13:18Yeah, there's another thing, too, that is very unique to The Shield, which I just adore,
13:22and I plan on stealing often in my career, is this sort of objective camera, sort of random objective camera,
13:33that sort of suddenly you're in a scene and then suddenly you're up in a window in some building,
13:38looking down at the same scene, and not because we know who's up there,
13:43not because that person's part of the through line or the storyline,
13:47just because it's part of the world.
13:49And you get this sense that the world is watching as well as us participating in what's happening down there.
13:56It brings in a whole environment in a way that is really satisfying to me.
14:02You know what, can I interrupt?
14:03Sure.
14:04Can I interrupt for just one second, Sean?
14:05Because there's something else that you have always sort of insisted on from all of us as directors,
14:11and it's fantastic.
14:13And that's a verisimilitude in performances and in the environment.
14:16And every director that comes in gets it and understands it.
14:19And you've also insisted on one other thing,
14:21which is why it's sort of a compliment to everybody that's lucky enough to direct the show,
14:26because I think we all feel lucky to do it.
14:28You tell us to make our own movie.
14:31Everyone that directs on The Shield directs.
14:34It's not mimicking.
14:35It's mimicking in a grand stylistic pseudo-documentary sense,
14:40which we've all started to define a little bit.
14:42But when they're on the floor, they're directing.
14:45There's not that kind of omnipresent oversight,
14:48which can stifle creativity and stifle spontaneity.
14:51And I think we're really lucky that way.
14:53I think it's a great group that way.
14:55It encourages us to free think, you know, in the moment, pardon the cliché.
15:00Let me ask you this, because I appreciate everything that you guys are saying about the nice things about directing the show.
15:06What doesn't work as well for you, or what is more difficult for you guys on other shows, perhaps?
15:13Well, there is an intimacy that is lost a little bit in this style.
15:20I mean, a documentary by nature tends to objectify the subject matter.
15:25Luckily, it works with the subject matter because of what you're trying to communicate with it.
15:30But when you are trying to really get inside someone's sort of soul and emotional state,
15:40it does fight against that a little bit.
15:43And I think it's important.
15:48One of the things that's really, really hard about this show is you tend,
15:53because of the nature of the shooting, to want each shot to be totally satisfying
15:59because it can be.
16:00It can go from you, then suddenly over to you, and it can tell the whole story in one shot.
16:04There's a tendency to try and make every shot do that.
16:07And if you do that, when you cut it all together, then suddenly everything is just going too fast and too furious.
16:13And it's really, for me, it was really learning how to kind of control the kite in the stiff wind, you know,
16:19how to keep it flying without letting it get too out of control.
16:24So that when the moments do need to land that are emotional, we're within a ballpark that allows us to settle down enough for it.
16:34For me, by far, the most difficult aspect of it is the guest cast.
16:39Because, I mean, I'm a director who thinks that I don't have a directing style.
16:42I have to find a way to direct every actor.
16:45And to bring guest cast members who I sort of have barely known and have cast in a particular part up to the level of the current cast.
16:53And to be able to work in this particular style is often very difficult.
16:57And I'd say, you know, in the one episode I did, I'd say I failed in two roles.
17:02Because I miscalculated that the actor would be prepared to go toe-to-toe in this documentary instantaneous flowing world and make it real.
17:11Most actors are not trained to do that. I mean, you're an actor, you know, it's very, it's a very specific kind of actor who can really work the shield.
17:19And it's not every actor. Most actors who do television regularly feel like, you know, I'm going to have six hours to do my scene.
17:25It's going to be written this way. I'm not going to deal with an actor who's going to challenge me like Chickie does with every single person and really stretch boundaries.
17:33I'm going to know what to expect. It's going to be kind of comfortable. The shield is not that way.
17:37It's really hard to keep people up to that and get them up to that level.
17:41Are you trying to say that I'm one of those people who is not up to it?
17:44I'm not naming names right now.
17:45Well, haven't you been cast for the shield yet?
17:47Clearly not.
17:48But you know what I mean? For an actor, it breaks people out.
17:50And some people can't really get up to that level in that amount of time.
17:54And because we're shooting seven days and it's fast, I can't spend the time to nurture an actor.
17:58I don't have three hours necessarily even to do the scene. We got to do the scene and walk away.
18:03We have this location. We have three other locations today. Goodbye.
18:07That is the other thing. I mean, the seven-day thing is brutal.
18:11And it could not be accomplished without this style.
18:15Well, what you may not know is Scott Brazil shifts the money around so that he can film eight-day episodes.
18:20Oh, no, we hear that from everybody.
18:23Scott, why don't you talk about does our style hurt us in some way or make it harder for you as a director?
18:30I think you're right on, guys, that the challenges, the guest cast challenge is extraordinary.
18:37And we have so little time. And I think we have tremendous guest casts every week.
18:42But, Sean, you write it in a way that we drop into scenes that don't have a more traditional structure to them.
18:50They don't have a structure where there's this sort of shape where an actor can warm up to an emotional moment
18:55and then crescendo and then decay and you're out.
18:59We catch them, you know, we catch these scenes just before crescendo.
19:03And so to get the actors in that place that quickly is really a challenge and a thrill,
19:10which I know you guys feel the same way. It's fantastic, but it's terrifying.
19:14And when you have Danny Pino or someone like that who is so facile at it,
19:20you look on the schedule and you say, oh, thank God, I have Danny today.
19:24He played Armadillo.
19:25He played Armadillo.
19:26Oh, big villain.
19:27If you're watching this DVD, you should know all this shit, okay?
19:29But then you take a big sigh and you know that you're just going to be able to get these scenes
19:36and you know they're going to be done at a high level and you know you're going to be surprised.
19:39But you don't know that with everybody.
19:40It's so great to be on FX where you can say shit.
19:44Scott, let's talk about the seven-day schedule.
19:46Some people, I think, believe that in a strange way it might help us.
19:51We all sort of wish that we had more time.
19:53How do you view the seven-day schedule and its advantages and disadvantages?
19:57To be clear for those people watching, seven days means we film in seven business days,
20:01whereas a lot of shows we use eight, so it's hard.
20:04What's your reaction to the seven-day schedule?
20:07I think for our show it's incredible and I think it inspires us.
20:11And I've been lucky enough, I admit, two of my episodes this season in season two were eight-day schedules.
20:17And they were written to be eight-day schedules.
20:20They were bigger than could be done in seven.
20:23So I still felt the same pressure.
20:25Pardon me, Peter, you should have had ten.
20:28I know, but sorry.
20:31And in season three I'm thinking there may be a ten, eleven-day show for me and a six for you.
20:37So we can start negotiating now.
20:40But one of the things that happens on a seven-day schedule, you know you can't make it.
20:44There isn't as much time to rehearse.
20:46It comes to the series regulars, as you were saying, Paris, to, they come in prepared to shoot.
20:52They will rehearse it, but they're prepared to shoot.
20:55The guest cast has to come up to that, and we as directors have to come up to that.
20:59And everybody's working on instinct.
21:01And that's when it gets raw, and that's when it gets real, and that's when you make really interesting mistakes.
21:07And sometimes you don't have time to go back and repair those mistakes.
21:11And so there's an energy in the show that does feel very unique.
21:16And I think, I hate to say, sometimes seven days contributes in a positive way to that.
21:22Sean and I were talking about season three.
21:25And gee, if we had the financial means, could we make them all eight-day shows?
21:29And you two guys are going to shoot, well I'm safe.
21:32You're going to start slapping Sean.
21:34We spoke about finding a balance between eight-day shows and seven-day shows.
21:38That the eight-day episodes will be written bigger so that the pressure will remain the same on all of us,
21:45including the cast, to deliver that kind of raw energy.
21:49That's unique to me in TV.
21:51I don't, it's a totally different feeling to know that you're desperate from the moment you start the day.
21:57We have some great assistant directors, and Gwyneth Horder-Payton, one of them.
22:01When you start the day, minute one, she says, let's go, you're a half hour behind.
22:06And that's the way you need to start the day on The Shield.
22:11There's no calm, there's no rest.
22:13And so you work from a place of instinct, which is very exciting and risky.
22:18There's also, though, I think without the shooting style, it would be really, really difficult to make that schedule.
22:24No doubt about it.
22:25No doubt about it.
22:26We ignore the dolly almost completely.
22:28It's steadicam and handheld.
22:30Clark spoke to that when we've spoken and when he's been interviewed about directing the pilot.
22:36He had 11 days to direct the pilot and immediately adopted this style because it was critical to get the show done.
22:43It couldn't be done otherwise.
22:45From a lighting standpoint, too, it's like on my episode, The Copilot, the second one, which was about, it was called Copilot because it took place in linear time before the pilot took place, for those of you who don't know.
23:00So the opening of the piece is Acevedo, the chief of police, Acevedo, walking into the precinct empty.
23:12So we had to clean out the precinct.
23:14So it was like bare.
23:15And we walked into the first day to shoot and Ron Schmidt, the DP, looked at it and went, where am I going to hide all my lights?
23:21Because he had used the clutter of the precinct to hide, you know, hundreds of lights around there.
23:28And so suddenly we were actually lighting and it really threw us for a loop for a period of time.
23:32It's important to acknowledge Ron Schmidt and his camera crew and lighting crew because we couldn't make those days without him embracing the idea of, okay, I've got 10 minutes to light this rather than I got 45 minutes to light.
23:48There's something deeper that goes on even in that before we move on, which is we have camera operators who are insane.
23:54And they get the two handheld cameras in the scene and they're suddenly just badgering you with ideas and how they're going to work together and how they're going to bump into each other.
24:03And both of them are going, you go over there, I'll be over here.
24:05And it's a whole like kinetic, they love making a movie and they love helping you make the movie.
24:10And so you sort of rehearse the scene and then all of a sudden they're on their little, what do they call it?
24:14They have those little rolling.
24:15Butt dollies.
24:16Little butt dolly parts they have and they're trying to make the movie together.
24:20And you see them and sometimes they want the same shot.
24:22And so they've jammed up against each other and they're trying to sort of get the same shot.
24:27And you're going, God, these guys love The Shield.
24:29Let's talk about locations for a second.
24:31And I really love what the feel of the locations and feeling Los Angeles or an example that we're going to see in a clip in a second, Scott, Mexico, when we went down to there.
24:43Both as a director and as a producer who's scouting locations with other directors, Scott, what are some of the things that you're looking for in locations that will help us make our day?
24:52How do you find these unique locations with the location managers and the visiting directors?
24:59I think we're just looking for anti-locations.
25:02I think we're looking for locations that feel real, that aren't architecturally significant, that aren't theatrically lit.
25:09It's interesting to scout with someone who hasn't done it, with a director who hasn't done it on the show.
25:17And oftentimes we'll go to a location and say, wow, this is stunning.
25:20And then we'll look at each other and say, OK, that's not us.
25:23Let's move on.
25:24That's for your next project.
25:26Well, what's stunning to us, I think, and it'll be borne out in the cliffs, are these remarkably ethnically rich neighborhoods, colorful neighborhoods, impoverished neighborhoods, by the freeway in Mexico, you know, in the middle of a parking lot.
25:46Where we looked for that house, Peter, for so long, you worked so hard to find the right house for that crack dealer.
25:52And we sat in that parking lot and said, OK, how do we just ground it?
25:56And the good fortune of the carnival, you know, just suddenly made it feel very, very real.
26:03And that's the way we tend to approach the locations.
26:06I think you guys would agree is what's right for the characters.
26:09What would those cops do in that situation?
26:11And then go from there.
26:13It's a remarkable show.
26:15It's a pleasure to shoot in a part of Los Angeles that others shy away from.
26:20It's a pleasure to film in neighborhoods where they're pleased to have you come into their neighborhood as opposed to shunning you because you're going to be a burden.
26:30That's a lot of the unique location scouting philosophy of the show.
26:35We're going to take a look at your clip, Scott.
26:38And this is from the Quick Fix.
26:40And you can set up any way you want the challenges of filming at the actual border crossing between the United States and Mexico.
26:49This is a scene late in the episode when they're getting ready to come back across the border.
26:54Is there anything you want to talk about, an insight into the difficulties of shooting this particular scene?
27:00Perhaps a little bit ahead of seeing it.
27:03I just know that all of the pressures that the three of us have been talking about as directors seem to be amplified in the requirements of what you wrote,
27:13which is at the U.S. border crossing, shooting it for real, in the middle of thousands of cars streaming by, working with non-actors.
27:24The border guard is a border guard in the scene.
27:28And that just takes what we tend to do every day, and it just raises the stakes,
27:35because there was a window of opportunity that was so narrow in filming there that everybody had to be on their game.
27:41There was no take two, essentially.
27:43Let's take a look at it.
27:45Hey, stop right there.
27:49Working.
27:51Come on, boy, working.
27:52IDs, please.
27:53Pop the trunk for me.
27:54Sure.
27:56Um, the trunk latch is broke.
27:57Sir, stay in the car, please.
27:58I will take the keys.
27:59Sure.
28:00What happened back here?
28:01Oh, um, we were in Rosarita.
28:02Uh, Madam Marie introduced the gun.
28:03Can someone tell me, possibly?
28:04I can't tell you.
28:05You're in the car.
28:06I was out of my house.
28:07I was in the car.
28:08I'm away.
28:09I was out of my house, and I'm not on a house.
28:11If I was in the car, I had to tell you how to play the gun.
28:13You guys have a rough time on the other side?
28:14in the car please. I will take the keys. Sure. What happened back here? Oh, we were in Rosarita.
28:30Madame Marie introduced us to some of her friends. Came out this morning it looked like
28:35that. Boys are lucky you got off with just a few stickers. Yeah. Hey, you need some help
28:40back there? You're gonna need to get rid of that wire. I think I got some pliers in here
28:43somewhere. No, that's all right. You guys have anything to declare? Just that it's great
28:50to be back in the States. Welcome home.
29:02Then what happened? Then what happened? Peter, did you say then what happened? Yeah.
29:06And we found out. You didn't see that episode? I haven't seen it again recently.
29:12Is there anything you want to add, Scott, to that? I mean...
29:16Yes, Scott. Not a thing.
29:19Not after that intro.
29:21Yeah. In preparation for this DVD, I put out a message on the official FX website just
29:29asking for questions that the fans of our show might like to ask cast and crew. And
29:34there was a real interesting question by a woman, Louise G. No last name. Louise G. She
29:41wrote that applies to you guys. I'm interested in your reaction to this. She writes,
29:44Is it difficult to direct actors who have worked together as a team for two seasons when
29:49you as the director are the, quote, new man to the set? Wouldn't the actors have a tendency
29:53to feel, who is he to tell me what to do? I know more about the focus of this series
29:57than he does. So this is a little bit more of a question for the two of you, although
30:01I'm interested in Scott's response there too. What is it like to be the person coming in
30:05for episode 20, episode 22, when these actors have done, you know, other shows in addition
30:13to ours? I mean, as episodic directors, you're coming in working on something that they already
30:18have. What? Well, I came into both ER in its fourth season and NYPD Blue in its third season
30:24when they were both, like, extremely successful. And everyone was already a star. And so I'd
30:29already been traumatized by the fact. So it is tougher is what you say. It's definitely tougher
30:35because you're not working on building the character together as when you start a new
30:39series. You're really, um, you're really building on what they've already established. And Dennis
30:44Franz taught me a great lesson about it. He said, kid, actually, he probably didn't say
30:49kid, but he made a good start. All Hollywood stories start with the star saying kid. But
30:55he said, um, you just got to remember that everything that Sipowitz has ever said, I have
31:00said. And that was a really good lesson to me. And it's, it works with Chicky too. I have
31:03to remember as a director that he's been there every moment that we've seen that character.
31:08He's been through every script. He's worked every day when we've ever seen, you know,
31:12Vic Mackey, he has been there. And I can't presume, even if I've watched every episode
31:17of The Shield, which I had watched every episode of The Shield, that I know more about that person's
31:21process than he does. So I've tended to ask, and the way I deal with actors like that is
31:25I tend to ask them questions. What do you think the character would do? And we have a discussion
31:29about the characters if they were a third person. And I don't try to manipulate them.
31:33I try to find out where they're from. And then I try to shape that to what I think the episode needs.
31:37But it takes a bit of humility, actually, because without that, I think it's a complete failure.
31:42As soon as the actor senses that you somehow know more about the show or the character that they do,
31:47it's over for you. You're done. You're toast. And I've seen it happen with directors.
31:51They never want to speak to you again because you're presumptuous at the very least.
31:54So you really have to approach it with, you know, a sense of understanding.
31:57And I think you can still get what you want, but I think you have to get what you want,
32:01knowing that you're very much in collaboration with someone who knows more about that person than you ever will.
32:06And that's just the way it is.
32:08Peter, I doubt very much you can improve on that answer, but do you want to try?
32:11Well, I was going to say that.
32:14That is an interesting thing. As an actor on a very successful, long-running show,
32:17what was your approach as an actor to these directors who would come in?
32:20Well, I think...
32:21Fuck them, right?
32:22Yeah. I know what I'm doing. They give me direction. I'll say it aloud the way I want to any fucking way.
32:27My guess is your approach as an actor is different than it is now as a director.
32:32I love that on FX you can say fuck.
32:35You know, what I can add to this, I think, is having been in that position as an actor on a show for that long,
32:43the reality is the minute a new director comes on this set and proves that they know what they're doing,
32:51there is such a tangible relief on everyone's part in the cast and the crew and everybody that you get really embraced.
32:58It's really that first day. If you can come in and really show people that you know what you're doing and that you have a handle on your basic sort of craft,
33:08people will embrace it. And I found that to be true as a director and as an actor.
33:13I think you do have to prove yourself. That is true, especially on a show that's got some success with it and people who have become stars.
33:20But, boy, they're looking for you to succeed. They don't want you to fail.
33:25Scott, do you feel you were there from the beginning? You were there before any of the actors working on the show.
33:31Did that give you a leg up in this regard versus directors who come out of the show? Do you get treated differently because of that?
33:38I think so. I think I've been treated differently just based on familiarity, you know, so you don't have that day one hurdle really to leap over that you were talking about, Peter.
33:47One of the challenges for me, and this is true whether it's, you know, having done a bunch of episodes of The Shield and now doing, you know, we'll do more,
33:54is to try and help put the actors in a place that feels fresh to them, that feels new. Anything, any added element you can bring, any little comment, you know, Paris, any question that you might ask,
34:06these are actors that will hear the question, think about it, process it, and translate it, you know, in some way back at you.
34:13And I think that's really helpful to the cast.
34:16Well, the proof also is there's one scene that I had in my episode where Vic Mackey comes in and really puts Claudette down for fucking with his family.
34:23You can say fuck.
34:24I love that.
34:25And he wanted to do it several different ways. I mean, he wanted to try a really hard tone at her.
34:30And I said, well, let's pull back. What if it's the other way? What if you're really hurt and your vulnerability actually shows in this minute?
34:36He thought for a second and said, yeah, let me try that. And he'll film that.
34:39I mean, that's one of the great things about Chiklis and about the show is because if he thinks it's anywhere in the ballpark of what the character could do,
34:46if you tell him, come out like a big sissy and like a girl, you're flaming queen and snap your fingers, he's not going to do that.
34:51Well, he could.
34:52But in the ballpark, he's willing to try things like that. And we shot all these three different takes.
34:58And we eventually went with the most hardest put down approach, which is sort of the most Vic Mackey.
35:04But it's not after we were able to together kind of explore what the different things would do and how they would feel.
35:09And that was I thought that was really exciting about it.
35:12You know, I think also that part of the of all of our desires to keep it fresh and be fresh is only doing 13 episodes a season.
35:21And we've done that two years in a row. And the difference and we all know it because we've all done as directors or producers or actors shows that do a minimum of 22 episodes a year.
35:31And you die. You go into a place in the middle of that season where you just pray you can get to the light at the end of the tunnel.
35:39And when you do, you're desperate to get to the end because you're so exhausted.
35:43And it's a pleasure to do a fewer number of episodes. And I think we as directors all reap the benefit of that, that when we start the season, all of us and the cast and the crew know that they will be sprinting from day one.
35:57But they know where that finish line is and can see it. It's not a marathon where you can't see the finish line.
36:03It's a 400 meter sprint right from the beginning. It takes a little bit of stamina, but you're maintaining top speed throughout the whole way.
36:11And I think that when the cast knows that, they're more willing to avoid the safe place.
36:17That's right.
36:18Because you go to the safe place when you have to, when you're exhausted, when you fear you've got another six weeks of the same drill.
36:25And, and I think we're really lucky in that regard that, that most of the cast is willing to avoid the safe place so that they explore and it keeps them alive.
36:33You know, we're lucky that way.
36:35It's interesting though, that the scripts don't seem to come out any faster in a 13 episode series than a 22 episode series.
36:42Let's move on to Paris.
36:44Isn't there a saying to try to never work with animals or children?
36:50I think it's never worked with Walt Goggins.
36:55You had a, you had a bit that proved a very difficult from your episode, Scar Tissue, where, where it's very easy to write in a script that, that a pit bull attacks Shane and bites his arm and clings and won't let go.
37:07And, and, uh, Lemonhead has to come and shoot the dog.
37:10And that took, that took us about 15 seconds to write.
37:13Why don't you tell us how long it took you and pre-production what you had to do in order to make, uh, make the scene work?
37:19Well, let's go to the clip and then I'll...
37:21Okay, let's go to the clip first and then we'll talk about it.
37:23Paris is smart enough to show the clip first and then talk about it.
37:26I...
37:27You went to lesson there, Scott.
37:28Well, after we come back, can I talk about Paris' clip?
37:30Yeah, yeah.
37:46Hey!
37:47Hey!
37:48Hey!
37:49Hey!
37:50Hey!
37:51Hey!
37:52Hey!
37:53Get your ass down!
37:54Down!
37:55On the ground!
37:56Ah!
37:57Ah!
37:58Ah!
37:59Ah!
38:00Ah!
38:01Ah!
38:02Ah!
38:03Ah!
38:04Ah!
38:05Ah!
38:06Ah!
38:07Shit!
38:08Holy shit!
38:09Ah!
38:10Ah!
38:11Holy shit!
38:12Ah!
38:13Ah!
38:14Ah!
38:15You all right, man?
38:16Crazy bitch!
38:19Jesus, man!
38:21What?!
38:22God!
38:23All right, forget the dog.
38:27Let's go talk to the soldiers.
38:29Let's go.
38:32This is such a sick show.
38:34So the first question is, who's the sickest bastard?
38:37Kurt Sutter for writing it, Walton Goggins for acting it so well, or Paris Barkley for
38:43directing it?
38:43Well, I got to say, from the first day of prep when I read that scene, first thought
38:47was, this is going to be really hard to do.
38:48Second thought was, that's really funny.
38:50I mean, it's really funny in a really dark and kind of...
38:53In a sick way.
38:54In a sick way.
38:55And so we spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to accomplish it.
38:58And as I watched the clip, it just, first, it's the finding of the location, that weird
39:03house on a hilltop by the freeway was a stroke of luck.
39:06And if I can interrupt for a second, I think, you know, we're very lucky to have the sound
39:12people we have and Dean White, who's overseeing the sound engineering.
39:16So we never shy away from locations.
39:17A lot of TV shows wouldn't want to be near the freeway because of the noise.
39:21And we kind of embrace it because we have people who are making sure that we'll be able
39:26to hear it all right.
39:27And we knew it was going to freak people out, but still, just the way it sloped down, then
39:31the house itself went down, and then there's a series of stairs that went down to the street,
39:35allowed us to also do what was going to come later when they were going to throw some of
39:38Mexicans down the stairs.
39:39Anyway, so once you have that, meanwhile, we're trying to cast this dog.
39:42And everything in the script that the dog is asked to do, they're all different talents
39:46for a dog.
39:47I guess dogs are usually specific.
39:49They can, you know, bark and look angry.
39:51They can bite you, but then they don't like to lie down.
39:54Some of the dogs like to lie down, but they're not the ones who like to bite you.
39:58You know, and they don't want to ruin the dog by making the dog all upset and angry because
40:02then whenever someone fires a gun, the dog will be upset.
40:05So we go through all this casting sessions of dogs and meeting all these dogs and all
40:08these dog trainers to find a dog that would do everything.
40:11As you can see, that dog's a very fine act.
40:14Although I don't believe any of the sound that you hear in the actual show is from that
40:19actual dog.
40:19You really shot him.
40:20Yeah.
40:21You really shot that dog, didn't you?
40:22Yeah.
40:23You killed him.
40:24The sound made it much more vicious.
40:26He was a very perfectly nice dog.
40:28He didn't want to bite his, bite his chain or anything.
40:30And then poor Walt didn't want to wear any kind of padding at all because, you know, he's
40:34tough, but this dog still has a jaw.
40:37So if you look at it closely, you can see his arm is considerably padded there.
40:41And so he had to rehearse with this sort of dog, snarling at him and nubbing.
40:45And this is a day where we have this and four other scenes to do.
40:48So we have to throw people down the stairs, have a dog.
40:51And a company move.
40:52And a company move from one location to another.
40:54We have stuntmen who are getting hit by guns and knocked down by chicklets.
40:58We have people falling downstairs.
40:59The gentleman that you see who goes out the door and falls over that Walt narrowly misses
41:04is also the gentleman who doubles Armadillo whenever he's doing his action sequences in
41:08earlier episodes.
41:10We knew he was very reliable, so we used him in that really important role.
41:13So all these different things had to sort of come together aside from the fact that we
41:17were laughing while we were doing it.
41:20Because just the idea that Shane would get upset and shoot the damn dog, we found incredibly
41:25amusing.
41:26So we had to stop laughing enough to actually do the scene.
41:29So chick would come out and be really angry.
41:30What's happening?
41:31Someone's firing the gun.
41:32Take would be over.
41:33We'd go.
41:36And the dog would be lying there with blood on it like this.
41:40We found the whole thing really funny.
41:44And the network doesn't like a dead dog either.
41:46So we had to shoot it in certain ways.
41:47Our network likes it more than others.
41:48Yeah, most networks don't really love a dead dog, ASPCA and stuff.
41:52Is the dog really dead and shot?
41:53So we had to bleed the dog and everyone was watching, make sure the dog was okay.
41:56More people were concerned about the dog than the humans falling down the stairs.
42:00And all the dog was doing was laying down and getting blood put on it.
42:03So anyway, maybe 30% of my prep, 20 to 30% of my prep was talking about that one scene
42:08that lasts 58 seconds in the show.
42:10That's incredibly complicated.
42:12And what I loved about it is when I saw it, it's so much better than I ever imagined it
42:16because of the way things happened after I was on another show.
42:19The way the sound was enhanced, the music that's used that you hear before you actually
42:23hit the thing is great.
42:24The balance of the real street sounds and what's going on.
42:27All the hits and the guns are all right on.
42:30So everything that happens in post-production, long after I've gone to another show, I think
42:34made that scene even better.
42:35The growls of the dog, the breaking of the chain, all that stuff made it really visceral.
42:39So that's why I chose it.
42:40We're getting towards the end.
42:41Just real quickly, real quickly from all three of you, off the top of your head,
42:46favorite thing about directing The Shield, least favorite thing about directing The Shield?
42:49Peter, wise ass, you want to start?
42:54Wow.
42:55Favorite thing about directing The Shield is the fact that it includes, it's such a fusion
43:01of drama in real life.
43:03Your attempt is to make it as authentic and as real as you can, and I adore that.
43:11Least favorite thing is, you know, that Sean Ryan has the strangest quirks in the world
43:17that pop up from time to time.
43:18Like, no one can drink coffee on this set, in a scene.
43:23Well, I just thought, my feeling is it's such a cop staple to see cops drinking coffee.
43:28I was like, this is how I like.
43:29Have them drink some juice.
43:30Have them drink some water.
43:31I understand, it's just, it's a little eccentric.
43:35There are a little eccentric reels.
43:36There are a little eccentric reels.
43:37So what you're saying is, I'm the worst thing about directing The Shield.
43:41I can't argue it.
43:42Paris, your thoughts?
43:44Favorite thing is how different, and in a weird way, the same, the cast are.
43:50I guess it's the cast.
43:51But they're such different humans.
43:53The humans that you put together to make that cast are so eclectic.
43:56It's really like ER.
43:57And when I first went in ER, when they had, you know, Clooney and Margulies, and they were
44:01like all these completely unique people.
44:05And so all of their approaches are really, Catherine Dent is very different from CCH Pounder.
44:08It's very different from Michael Chiklis.
44:10It's very different from, you know, Shane.
44:12I mean, they're really, it's really weird, in a sense.
44:14There's not, like West Wing, it's almost the same people.
44:17I mean, they say the same line, so it might as well be the same people.
44:21But there's a few people that stand out.
44:22But there's a very, there's a great commonness about them.
44:26And their intellect and the way they talk about things and their political points of view are
44:29very much the same.
44:30Not so on The Shield, and that makes it really exciting for me and really great.
44:34My least favorite thing is I frankly don't like to move a lot.
44:37And if I had my druthers, I'd have a little golf cart and stay in one place.
44:42And when I have some days where I have to be in four places at once, the actual moving
44:46between places and the not shooting is my least favorite part.
44:49I love it when you have a day when you're just in the house and you're doing everything
44:54there.
44:54I feel I can get so much done.
44:56And it's just on those days when I do have, like, the two company moves and I know time
45:00is wasting and we're not shooting, that make me want to kill myself.
45:04That's basically my least favorite part.
45:05But you've got to do it because there's a lot of scenes in a lot of different places.
45:08But I just hate going.
45:08I would, let me just amend the least favorite because that wasn't a very good one.
45:12The least favorite thing for me, I think, is the volume of material in the amount of
45:16time.
45:16It's like how much you have to accomplish in a day just feels like more than you can
45:21digest in a way that you, the specific way that you want to.
45:24You've done it twice.
45:26Every director complains.
45:27Every director gets a kill.
45:28Just think what I could have done with eight days.
45:31With Scott's schedule.
45:32Scott, what's?
45:33Your favorite thing is the eight-day shoot, right?
45:37Your favorite thing is being the boss, isn't it?
45:43Peter, you rat fuck.
45:46I love that you can say fuck on everything.
45:49And rat.
45:52I'm so embarrassed.
45:53The eight-day shows were just bigger scripts.
45:55In his defense, he had to go to Tijuana, Mexico, and film.
46:00That was the first one.
46:01The second one, I don't know.
46:02And then the big season finale.
46:04It's not Scott's fault.
46:05We just love to go.
46:06What's your favorite and least favorite thing, Scott?
46:09I think, you know what?
46:10I'm sorry, Peter.
46:10And this is, well, should never get on the DVD because it's sort of personal.
46:13It's interesting to me that you have not, in the two that you've done, that you have not
46:18been able to, for yourself, embrace this manic, insane pace.
46:22Because you're such a meticulous prepper, which is phenomenal.
46:26You prep every character so, so intensely.
46:30But you rail against the desperate nature of it, but you do such a good job at it.
46:38It's funny that you haven't been able to once pat yourself on the back for it.
46:40Yeah, let's not compliment him on the DVD.
46:42I was going to say, make sure that gets cut.
46:43Yeah, what's wrong with you?
46:44What are you talking about?
46:45Please include that.
46:47I'm a perfectionist.
46:48What can I tell you?
46:49No, but it's funny.
46:50The different styles is you'll come in and go, oh, God.
46:53And Paris comes in and says, get out of my way.
46:56It's like, here we go.
46:59I'm Swedish, all right?
47:00I think the best thing for me about directing the show is spontaneity and improvisation.
47:08I think that's something that you don't get very often in television.
47:11And I think that's miraculous.
47:15I think my least favorite thing, and Sean, you'll, I think, appreciate this very much as
47:21well, is the short post-production time we have.
47:24It's the same as all other episodic television, but the spontaneity and improvisation that you
47:29get to experience and just thrive in while you're shooting, if we had another week to cut, we could live that same life in the editing room.
47:38And we could explore and take chances and restructure and go, well, that was really idiotic.
47:45Or, as when we're lucky, it happens, you go, well, what a miracle.
47:50That worked better than we ever thought it would work.
47:52And just create something altogether new.
47:53And that's frustrating, is to know that we're, like every other show, we have a compressed post-production schedule.
47:59Scott, you just need to embrace it.
48:01I do.
48:03Exactly.
48:03You're right.
48:05Well, on that note, we're going to finish.
48:07Thank you, all three, for being here.
48:08Thank you for directing some of my favorite episodes of The Shield.
48:12And hopefully we'll see all three of you on the set next year.
48:15Thanks for axing us.
48:16Bye-bye.
48:18Bye, you guys.
48:19Bye.
48:19Bye.
48:19Bye.
48:19Bye.
48:19Bye.
48:19Bye.
48:19Bye.
48:19Bye.
48:19Bye.
48:19Bye.
48:19Bye.
48:19Bye.
48:19Bye.
48:19Bye.
48:19Bye.
48:19Bye.
48:19Bye.
48:21Bye.
48:21Bye.
48:21Bye.
48:21Bye.
48:21Bye.
48:23Bye.
48:23Bye.
48:25Bye.
48:25Bye.
48:25Bye.
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