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Hustlers Gamblers Crooks Season 2 Episode 4
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00:00When you sign a contract as an NBA referee, it's in there that says you can't place a bet of any kind.
00:07I would give him the information, he would place the bet, we'd split the money 50-50.
00:11Me and Tim used a secret code so I knew right away that it was the away team who was going to win that night.
00:18I was involved in the biggest scandal in sports betting history.
00:23I was the number one manufacturer of fraudulent credit cards in the entire United States.
00:30I was a leader in one of the most dangerous motorcycle clubs in America and I went on a high speed police chase where I chased the cops.
00:40These credit cards were my Vincent Van Goghs, this was my masterpiece.
00:46He had known what I'd been doing with these picks.
00:48He was going to expose me to the NBA, deep down I knew I was screwed.
00:53We live outside of the law and if something happens to us, we're going to take care of it on our own.
00:58We were winning every game, we were getting paid.
01:01We were making a lot of money.
01:02I never checked the price of anything, I just went and got it.
01:05My name is John Boziak and I made roughly $4.2 million producing fake credit cards.
01:21I had a very eventful youth, single mother, you know, my dad was kind of in and out throughout my life.
01:40I had a little brother that I grew up with and we pretty much just raised ourselves.
01:46Art has always been a part of my life.
01:48My oldest memory I have is just drawing on pencil and paper.
01:53Street art has always been my main influence behind everything I do.
01:59We spray painted everything we could.
02:02Freeway signs, stop signs, security's chasing you, the cops are getting called.
02:06So it was exciting, especially when you're younger, you know, 15, 16 years old.
02:11Once I graduated, I had to figure something out.
02:18So it was like, what am I good at?
02:20And it was art.
02:21That's when I decided to go to the Art Institute.
02:25I majored in graphic design and media arts.
02:28So I would just hang out on campus and I would go to classes that I wasn't even signed up for.
02:32You know what I mean?
02:33Like, I would go to classes that I didn't even have to go to attend.
02:36I would just go sit in the classes.
02:39I graduated with a 3.59.
02:41Surely there's a company that'll hire me as a graphic design artist.
02:44Well, that turned out not to be the case.
02:46You know, what do you do?
02:47What do I do?
02:48I just hit the internet.
02:53In the early 2000s, there were forums for basically every kind of crime you could imagine.
02:58And when I found the forum for credit card fraud, I don't know why.
03:02I just felt like that was something that I could do.
03:04I'm proficient with graphic design.
03:05I understand computer systems.
03:07So when they started explaining exactly how you do it, I was like, this I get, this I can do.
03:14Basically what this entails is anytime you go to a website, you put in your credit card information,
03:19all of that information is stored on a server somewhere.
03:22And what people do is they hack this information and they resell it to people that obviously want to commit crimes with it.
03:31And so what happens is you order these numbers online and you need a physical piece of plastic with a magnetic strip on it.
03:37It could be a hotel room key.
03:38It could be a gift card.
03:40It could be anything.
03:41Anything with a magnetic strip on it you can write a credit card information to.
03:44You need a MSR 206 reader-writer, which is just a little piece of equipment that you slide the card through
03:50and it's got two magnetic thingies on the inside that encode the information.
03:54And then you need, obviously you need the numbers.
03:59You encode them physically to the card.
04:03And then you go out to the store and you just swipe the card as if it were your own.
04:07If somebody uses your credit card, 100% of the time you always get your money back.
04:12I wasn't stealing from people.
04:14I was stealing from banks.
04:15And that I have no problem with.
04:17I remember the first time I did it, I think it was food.
04:20I think I just went into like a restaurant.
04:28And it went right through.
04:29No problems.
04:30That was when I kind of went back out and I sat in the car and I'm like, holy smokes.
04:33There's something to this if you have the cojones to go out and do it.
04:39When you encode these numbers to these cards, you're using somebody else's debit card information on a random card.
04:44This works with small purchases, but you try to purchase something, anything over $300.
04:49There are security protocols that they have to follow in order to process the sale.
04:54One of which being that they have to look at the physical card and make sure that the last four digits of the credit card match what's actually being swiped on the POS machine.
05:02That's eventually what led me to going on and finding plastic vendors.
05:09And you would tell them what numbers to emboss on the front of the card.
05:13Now I'm able to go and I'm able to card the larger stuff.
05:16Then I could kind of chase after the big money.
05:18It was kind of like just like the wild, wild west.
05:21And I would do it every day.
05:23You know, because it's exciting walking into a store with five debit cards in your wallet.
05:29And you don't have to think about the price of anything.
05:31It's like winning the lottery.
05:33I wake up every morning and I just think about what can I buy today.
05:40Going into a supermarket, I'm just putting everything in the basket.
05:42I got two baskets.
05:44I got two baskets in the store.
05:45You know, I got every cereal I want.
05:47I'm getting steaks.
05:48I'm getting, you know, every prime rib.
05:50So I was going to Foot Locker and Champs every other day and getting three or four pairs of sneakers.
05:54And you can just live a completely different life now.
06:02Something occurred to me that I either heard or somebody had told me.
06:05It was when the gold miners were out west and they were out there mining gold.
06:11And it was the 49ers.
06:12Everybody was going out there.
06:13It was the gold rush.
06:14The guys out there making all the money were the guys selling the pickaxes, not mining the gold.
06:21For some reason, that little factoid always stuck with me.
06:23And I realized that going into a store to swipe credit cards, that's for the peons.
06:28The guys who are actually making the money, the kingpins, those are the guys making the plastic.
06:32Because I figured if I could just make these cards and sell them, then I could remove all of the risk from myself as much as I possibly could with, you know, maximizing profits.
06:44I found the exact printer that the banks used.
06:46I found the correct hologram vendor from China.
06:52I found a machine that punches the numbers into the card.
06:57I have a graphic design major.
06:59These credit cards were my Vincent van Goghs.
07:02This was my masterpiece.
07:03I worked harder on making these credit cards than I've ever worked on anything else my entire life.
07:11This is what's called an embossing machine.
07:13Now, in order to emboss a card using this machine, it kind of works like an old dial telephone.
07:18The dial here on top allows you to select your numbers and your letters.
07:22On the front of the machine, you've got a feed slot that you place the plastic card into, making sure that it is secure.
07:29And we're just going to run just through and emboss just some normal numbers for you real quick.
07:34It automatically moves over each time so you don't have to do anything with it.
07:37Pull out our card, and we have a perfectly spaced and perfectly embossed credit card.
07:52So the next step of the process after you have your numbers punched perfectly into the card is it goes to the tipping machine.
07:58The tipping machine is a hot foil machine that either puts gold or silver leafing onto the numbers on the card,
08:04allowing you to have a better polished product.
08:07Now you're ready to swipe, you're ready to spend, and you're ready to go out into the store and commit some fraud.
08:12Once I had a card that was indistinguishable from those that were issued from a financial institution,
08:25I knew that I had a marketable product.
08:27Then from there, it was just marketing, and it was customer service.
08:30I would advertise on these forums, and I realized that I'm going to be dealing with people all over the world.
08:35So I literally used to sleep with my laptop next to my bed open and with the volume all the way up.
08:41I would answer all of my customers I could within five or ten minutes, and that was something nobody else did.
08:47When it came to ship, I would just throw them in an envelope and fire them off through USPS.
08:51And one of my customers got the cards, and he's like, listen, man.
08:55He's like, I can hold them in the light, and I can see your fingerprints on the cards.
08:58So then I was like, oh, , maybe I do need to figure out a better process.
09:04So I came up with a pretty genius idea for mailing credit cards.
09:09So I would go on eBay, and I would find the listing for like 10 or 15 modems that just don't work or are missing parts.
09:15I'd buy all of those, take the insides out, and I would hide the cards inside the modems, put them back in the box,
09:20and I'd vacuum seal them like they came from the store.
09:22And I figured out how to scam shipping centers by making fake labels so I wouldn't have to pay for shipping.
09:28I'd scan into their system as a label that's been already paid for and say, can you add this to your outgoing mail?
09:33They'd scan it, and that'd be it.
09:38A normal busy week for me was anywhere between 500 and 1,000 cards.
09:42So then I would just have people pay me through Western Union.
09:44Either that or I accepted Bitcoin.
09:46I was making anywhere between $100,000 and $150,000 a month.
09:51I was buying Cadillacs, eating out three times a day.
09:54I was flying private.
09:56I never checked the price of anything.
09:59If I wanted it or if I needed it, I just went and got it.
10:02Yeah, there was nobody else doing what I was doing.
10:04I was the number one manufacturer of fraudulent credit cards in the entire United States.
10:14I was with a girl.
10:16I had met her in Fort Lauderdale.
10:18We started dating.
10:19And then we had a baby.
10:22She wanted to move to South Carolina.
10:25And we got a townhouse.
10:27I started making cards, you know, printing them.
10:29I set up a little lab up there.
10:30I was printing and sending cards out.
10:31But the thing is about South Carolina is that there were only two stores to send you words out from.
10:36You have to set up a box.
10:37So you have to come in with a driver's license and you have to, you know, give them your name.
10:41So I just sold somebody's identity.
10:43Whenever I had packages come in or I had packages mailing out, everything was always in the name Ryan Pearson.
10:47This is the craziest in the world.
10:53The owner of the shipping store opened one of my packages and went in and found the cards that I was sending out.
11:00He contacted the Postmaster General.
11:02He contacted the Secret Service.
11:04The Secret Service then set up a sting on me.
11:06They sent me an email that I had a package at the store where I had my mailbox and to come pick it up.
11:11And they just waited outside for me every single day for a week, eight hours a day waiting for me to pick up my package.
11:17I had no idea what was about to happen.
11:24I fell right into their trap.
11:26I walked right in there with my, just like it was a normal day.
11:29And I got to give it to the old man.
11:34He played it cool.
11:36Usually I pick up if something's wrong.
11:38Like if somebody's acting kind of weird, like my intuition immediately picks up on it because it's just been a defense mechanism of survival my entire life.
11:45It's being able to read people within a split second.
11:47And I had no idea.
11:49Like the old man was just like another day, another dollar.
11:51And then I go to walk out the door and here come two people walking in, plain clothes, but I seen a badge and a gun.
12:01And they were like, Ryan Pearson?
12:03And I was like, oh .
12:04And I was like, yeah.
12:05And they're like, well, we need to, we need to talk to you about what you've been sending out of here.
12:09I was like, what are you, what are you talking about?
12:11Sending out of here.
12:12And they're like, listen, we, we have the package.
12:14We have one of your packages you've sent out.
12:15We know what's going on.
12:16So we went in the back office.
12:18And I remember sitting in the chair and they were like, what's your name?
12:20Cause we looked Ryan Pearson up and you're not Ryan Pearson.
12:22And at this point in my mind, I'm like, what do they know?
12:25They're like, how long have you been doing?
12:26How long have you been sending these cards out?
12:28And I minimized.
12:29And I told them I've only been doing it in a couple of months.
12:31Just, I make these things in my, in my bedroom.
12:33I don't have anybody else working with me.
12:35Cause they, they thought for sure that this was some giant like crime ring.
12:39They didn't believe me that it was just me.
12:41They fingerprinted me.
12:42And then they had me sign a waiver saying that they could come to my home and search and seize anything that was used
12:49in the commission of the crime.
12:55They drove me to my condo.
12:56And I sat in the living room on the couch with one guy watching me while the other guy went through the whole apartment.
13:02They took all my printers.
13:03They took my laptops.
13:04They took all my debit cards, everything gone.
13:07$960,000 gone.
13:10So I knew I was, I knew this was the end of the line for me.
13:13I was charged with manufacturing a fraudulent transaction device, possession of a fraudulent transaction device, mail fraud, wire fraud, and aggravated identity theft.
13:25Maximum sentence I was looking at was about 25 years.
13:29Between 2005 and 2009, I made roughly $4.2 million manufacturing fraudulent credit cards.
13:38And here I am facing 25 years in prison at 27 years old.
13:44And I sat in Pinellas County jail for like three and a half months.
13:48Then my lawyer came back and told me that we have an offer from the prosecuting attorney.
13:52They're offering 24 months.
13:54I was absolutely flabbergasted.
13:56And I was like, what happened?
13:57She was like, the worker at the shipping store?
14:00There's a protocol they're supposed to follow.
14:02The Postmaster General is the only one with the authority to open mail that's been, postage has been paid for.
14:08The old man at the shipping store, he didn't follow protocol.
14:11And because of that, they had to dismiss all of the charges except for the aggravated identity theft,
14:17which I did have my face on someone else's driver's license.
14:20I wasn't necessarily physically harming people, but I understand that it is a very large inconvenience.
14:27The people always get their money back.
14:29So at the end of the day, really, it's the banks taking the loss.
14:33And my attitude is f***ing banks.
14:35So I don't feel bad at all about stealing from financial institutions.
14:39At all.
14:40I'm going to be completely honest with you.
14:41If I could do it all over again, I would do it again.
14:43I would 100% absolutely do it again.
14:47My name is Tim Donaghy.
14:48I'm a former NBA ref.
14:55I was involved in the biggest scandal in sports betting history.
15:01I'm from Havertown, Pennsylvania.
15:06Growing up, I loved basketball.
15:07Played basketball every day.
15:08You know, we went out in the mornings and played sports all day and all afternoon in the summer, and that's how we occupied our time.
15:17My name's Tommy Martino, and I'm Tim Donaghy's best friend.
15:20Timmy and I had a lot in common, but the main thing we had in common was the fact that we were both tenacious basketball players.
15:32He would always hack the s*** out of me.
15:35He would cheat during the game, playing me, just to beat me.
15:38He would do anything to beat me.
15:39He would foul me and act like he never fouled me.
15:44But I ended up beating him anyway.
15:45I'm sure if you ask him that question, he's going to tell you he beat me.
15:49He liked to say that I cheated because I always beat him.
15:53Tommy was, you know, not big in stature, but had a heart of gold and was a very tough kid.
15:58He was definitely somebody that I could rely on and count on.
16:03So, you know, in a way, he was like a brother, somebody that would have your back if you needed it.
16:12My dad was a top college basketball referee, and I used to go to a lot of the games with him.
16:17I learned a lot about officiating at a young age.
16:21Because of that, after college, I started to pursue a career as an NBA basketball referee.
16:28You had to put your whole heart and soul into studying those rule books.
16:35Be in the best shape that you could possibly be in to be able to run up and down the court with the greatest athletes in the world.
16:41I was 26 years old when I got hired.
16:45And my first game was a preseason game in Chicago with, you know, Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls.
16:51And it was one of the top accomplishments and greatest moments of my life.
16:58And when you become an NBA referee, you go in there and you're going to enforce those rules based on how they're written in the rule book.
17:04And unfortunately, you find out very quickly that that's not the way it goes.
17:08And I think sometimes the rules are enforced based on the names on the front and the back of the jerseys.
17:13And you have to basically learn the game within the game in order to survive.
17:18There was a situation where, in Philadelphia, I made a traveling call against Michael Jordan.
17:2920,000 people booed me and, you know, it was a particular spin move that they wanted called against players in the NBA that year.
17:36In my opinion, they want that called, but not on somebody like Michael Jordan.
17:42These star players are definitely put in a better position.
17:47I think the NBA was influencing games.
17:49There were meetings to where the league would come in and have a representative tell you what they wanted you to concentrate on that night.
17:56That was going to put a certain team at an advantage or disadvantage.
17:59And they weren't telling you to fix the game.
18:01But a lot of times we walked out of those meetings saying, you know, I think they want the Lakers to win tonight or they want the Mavericks to win tonight.
18:07And you know that they're grading you based on what you go out and call.
18:11And if they told you that they wanted you to concentrate on a certain player traveling in the post, then in my opinion, if you made that call, you know, you get a good grade.
18:21A good grade would get you advancement in the playoffs and each round could mean $20,000 extra for you.
18:27So there was a lot of incentive for you to do what the league wanted you to do.
18:36I was over at the country club and a buddy of mine just said, hey, you know, who do you think is going to win these NBA games?
18:41I knew who was refereeing the games and I knew teams at advantages and disadvantages based on what we discussed in that morning meeting.
18:48And I rattled off three games to the guy.
18:55The next day he called me and he said, man, is it that easy?
18:58And I said, what do you mean? He goes, all three of those games won.
19:04From that point on, we had our deal.
19:06I would give him the information. He would place the bet. We'd split the money 50-50.
19:10When you sign a contract as an NBA referee, it's in there that says you can't place a bet of any kind.
19:20It was something that really none of us followed.
19:23A lot of us went to the casinos. A lot of us gambled on the golf course.
19:27I loved the action of every shot meaning something in a golf match or the flip of the card.
19:33So it was something that I quickly became addicted to and not only did I go up to the line,
19:38but I jumped over the line and crossed it in a way that I shouldn't have even been near.
19:44We bet on and off for about three years.
19:46Maybe I won $20,000, $25,000 at that time.
19:49I think if anyone found out that I was feeding the information to a buddy of mine,
19:53I would have definitely lost my job.
19:58So I met Jimmy Batista in grade school.
20:01He went to the same grade school I did.
20:03He lived up the street from me, up the hill from me.
20:08Jimmy Batista was a professional gambler and I believe also had connections to organized crime.
20:13One day out of the blue, I get a call from him.
20:16He goes, Donaghy's in trouble.
20:18He's betting on his own games.
20:20We have to meet up with him.
20:21Word's out on the street and I'm afraid he's going to lose his job.
20:24I said, You got it.
20:25The date came.
20:26I didn't know what was going on.
20:27I thought I was helping Timmy out.
20:31I was in Philadelphia to referee a game.
20:33Tommy said that he was going to come down and take me out to dinner
20:35and got a big surprise from that big fat dickhead Batista walked in.
20:40We immediately sat down and that's when he said that he had known what I'd been doing.
20:43And he was getting those plays behind my back
20:46and he wanted to continue to get those plays.
20:48Or he was going to expose me to the NBA for gambling.
20:51Or worse yet, have somebody visit my wife and kids in Florida.
20:55I felt like my life was, you know, flashing in front of me.
20:58Went into the bathroom, threw some cold water on my face.
21:01I said, Tim, what the , dude?
21:10At this point, I didn't know that Donaghy was betting games.
21:13So I didn't know that Batista was doing it so he could give him the games.
21:17So I was like, holy , man.
21:19Tommy followed me in there and I said, Tommy, what the heck are you doing bringing him down here?
21:23I didn't know Batista that well, but what I knew of him, he was just a total scumbag.
21:27So it was just a situation where nothing ever good comes from anyone that's around him.
21:32You know, I agreed with Batista to give him the picks for the rest of the NBA season for $2,000 per correct pick.
21:43Donaghy says, okay, take the Celtics.
21:49Then the next night, Celtics kicked the Sixers' ass.
21:54The next night, Batista met me and threw me five grand.
21:58Two for Donaghy, three for me.
22:08I was the middle man in all this. Without me, it doesn't happen.
22:11I started working with Tim to try to get the games in a discreet way to pass it along to Batista.
22:18When I was on the road, I would just call Tommy if I had some good information on a game after the morning meeting
22:24and basically relay to him, not the information, but what team was going to win.
22:28Me and Tim used a secret code if it was the home team that Tim wanted us to take.
22:33It was my brother, Chuck, because he stayed at home, never got married.
22:37My brother Johnny got married, moved to New Jersey. He was the away team.
22:41So Donaghy would call me up and say, hey, I told Johnny today.
22:44So I knew right away that it was the away team that was going to win that night.
22:49I would call Batista. I would tell Batista the game, same way, through Johnny or Chuck.
22:54What about Johnny?
22:56And then Batista would give me the point spread.
22:59Thank you for the info, Tommy.
23:01And then I called Donaghy back and I would have to disguise the point spread.
23:05So if the point spread was like seven and a half, I would have to say like somebody's address
23:09so that we would, you know, not get detected by the feds.
23:14Betting the spread and gambling is when you pick a team that is either favored by a certain amount of points
23:24or giving a certain amount of points.
23:26If the Lakers are favored by six, if the Lakers win by more than six, then you win the bet.
23:33If they win by less than six, then you lose the bet.
23:37If they win by six, it's a tie.
23:41And he told me if the point spread was six points or less, it was a lock.
23:47We would win.
23:48He can influence the game.
23:49If the spread in the newspaper was five points and I knew we were going to crack down on certain things
23:56that the Houston Rockets were doing in the previous games and Yao Ming was traveling in the post
24:02and setting illegal screens that would take away several scoring opportunities for the Houston Rockets
24:07and that team is going to be put at a disadvantage.
24:10And it worked out great.
24:13We won about 70 to 80 percent of the time.
24:16We were winning.
24:19I think he was influencing the game whichever way we needed it.
24:23We were doing so good and we were winning at such a great clip.
24:27Tommy would travel or I was getting ready to do a game.
24:30He'd show up in a brown paper bag with the money just like in the movies and throw it on the bed and we'd go out and we'd have a blast.
24:36We'd go out, have a great dinner, go out to the nicest club.
24:42I made a total of $26,000 or $27,000. I think that was in a three month period.
24:52Dunaghy says it was $30,000, which is full . But I know what I gave to Dunaghy. And it was between $100,000 and $120,000. We were winning every game and we were getting paid.
25:03I thought at the end of the season it would be over and Tommy would be able to control Batista and get him off my back and everything would be done.
25:11And I definitely had no idea that the walls were closing in.
25:19I remember being on the beach in South Beach, Miami and my phone gets an unavailable call.
25:30And I know unavailable calls aren't good. I know that.
25:34I answered the phone and he said, hey, this is the FBI. Where are you? When are you coming home?
25:40And that's when they started asking me questions about Timmy.
25:44And that's when I knew we were .
25:48When Tommy told me, you know, the FBI had been to his house, my heart sank.
25:53Deep down I knew I was screwed. I went to an attorney and he ended up calling the United States Attorney who was on the case.
26:00He said, listen, you give Tim Dunaghy a message for me.
26:03You tell him we know what he did, we know who he did it with, and we know everything about this.
26:08He's better off coming to us before we come arrest him, because if he doesn't come to us, not only is he going to lose his job, but he's going to go to jail for a long, long time.
26:17I thought that that was basically a promise for me to stay out of jail.
26:21So I got on a plane with two attorneys and went and met with them.
26:27I thought Jimmy Batista was making a lot of small personal bets.
26:30I had no idea that Batista was betting millions and millions of dollars and making millions and millions of dollars for people in these picks.
26:37He was charged by the FBI, so Batista was going down, and Martino and I were going down with him.
26:46I think the NBA wanted it to go away, because Dunaghy started saying, I'll wear a wire, and I'll wear it in the locker rooms, and I'll prove to you that the NBA's doing this.
26:56I think it was a situation where the United States Attorney was trying to protect the integrity of the NBA as if everything I was saying wasn't true.
27:05And in fact, it was true, in my opinion.
27:07A lot of people want to say, well, you know, the games had to be fixed, but the FBI and the NBA went over all the game tapes and said that I never fixed the game, and I had one of the highest call percentages of any referee on the staff.
27:21So it's not like I was going out there and fixing the games.
27:24I think I was just going out there and calling what the league wanted to call, and that's what we did.
27:29If Tim tells you that he wasn't influencing the games, I think it's not true, because we won at a 80% clip.
27:37He used to tell me that if a guy's foot was close to the inbound line and we needed the call, he would make that call.
27:49I pled guilty to gambling and wire fraud and was sentenced to 15 months.
27:54I was ultimately convicted of wire fraud and sentenced to a year and a day.
28:04It was very troublesome to me that I took responsibility for my part in this, but yet the NBA acted like I was one bad apple that did this by myself and they had nothing to do with it.
28:15You know, no doubt about it, it was David versus Goliath and me taking on the NBA, what I said versus what they said.
28:25We think we have here a rogue, isolated criminal.
28:30There's been some speculation that we knew that Donaghy was betting this season and nevertheless let him work.
28:36That's not true. This is not something that is anything other than an act of betrayal.
28:43I don't want to blame anyone for the stupid choices that I made.
28:46But, you know, the bottom line is I'd be in the NBA going close to my 30th year with guys that I grew up with, but I threw it all the way.
28:55It's something that I really regret.
28:57My name is Justin Deloretto. Everybody calls me Mooch.
29:21My name is Justin DeLoretto.
29:25Everybody calls me Mooch.
29:27And I was a leader in one of the most dangerous motorcycle clubs in America.
29:35You know, as a child, I remember my dad having motorcycles
29:37because generally I remember they were loud.
29:39And me and my brother were riding like power wheels and big wheels and all those things.
29:43It was the era where we rode bicycles all over town.
29:45We kind of always had that, like out on two wheels, spending time together.
29:48So I think I've been hooked to that really early.
29:51I fell in love with motorcycles pretty quick and then I got obsessed.
29:59I mean, riding motorcycles is a rush.
30:01It's just you out there, nothing, there's nothing surrounding you.
30:03There's no protection.
30:04It's just you can literally see the road flying by as you're going.
30:08There's a lot more risk or danger if you make one little mistake than there is in a car.
30:12Like, you can't be texting or eating.
30:14Like, you're focused.
30:15I joined the Mongols in 2007, and one of the things I knew about the Mongols is they have a rule that no members are allowed to fight each other.
30:25They say that there's nothing two brothers can't sit down and talk out.
30:28And so that resonated huge with me.
30:30I mean, the whole goal of being in a motorcycle club is the brotherhood, being there for each other and doing things together.
30:36And then you start spending time on the road with these guys.
30:38And we live outside of the law.
30:39We don't ask cops for help.
30:40We don't press charges.
30:42And if something happens to us, we're going to take care of it on our own.
30:44These kind of things are all in place to, like, keep the brotherhood intact.
30:47If there's a rival club, and you're there to protect your brother or defend your club, you're expected to do that.
30:52So there's definitely a danger piece that comes with that, too, is you're expected to die for your brothers, essentially.
30:59The Mongols were one of the biggest national clubs at this time.
31:01So it was like I just joined the big leagues.
31:03And I remember part of me being just ecstatic, like, I'm a Mongol now.
31:06This is what's up.
31:07And the other part being like, man, if there's any Hells Angels here, they're going to shoot at me.
31:12It's super well known that the Mongols and Hells Angels have, you know, been at it since the 70s.
31:16I mean, for years.
31:18And it's pretty much on site between the two.
31:20If a Hells Angel sees a Mongol, he's likely going to try and attack you, and then vice versa.
31:24There's all sorts of ideas of what started that war.
31:27One of the biggest things is the Hells Angels were the big dominant club in California.
31:31And the Mongols started feeling like Southern California was more their area.
31:35And so they started shooting each other.
31:37Well, the Hells Angels started killing Mongols.
31:39They shot the president and vice president off their motorcycles, killed them both.
31:44And then at the funeral, they had a car with a bomb in it and blew it up.
31:50Well, the Mongols were starting chapters in new states around the country.
31:54I wanted to start the very first chapter in Oregon.
31:56We were brand new to this state, where there was only four other clubs before.
32:00Territory plays a big role in the motorcycle scene, and moving into new areas could be really dangerous.
32:04The other clubs didn't want us there.
32:05So those four clubs banded together to essentially say they were going to push us out, which means with violence, right?
32:11And because I was in leadership, I was the number one target.
32:15At that time, I'm getting ready to drive to Portland.
32:18I'm by myself.
32:19I'm going down our long, quarter-mile driveway.
32:21And here comes an all-black SUV coming towards me.
32:26They see me, and they stop.
32:29So we kind of have this, I want to say, stare-off, except that we couldn't see through the windshield.
32:32So they kind of started to turn around.
32:39Now I'm following them.
32:40We're going to the end of the driveway.
32:42My heart rate was elevated, and this is one of those moments where I had that internal talk, where I was like, should I just ignore and go left?
32:49Well, they took a right, and for whatever reason, I chose to take a right and follow them south.
32:55And at this point, I speed up, because I want to get next to them, look in the window, see, is it someone I recognize?
32:59Do they look like bikers, or are they an older couple that got lost?
33:04There you are.
33:05There you are.
33:06Every time I sped up to get next to them, they would take off.
33:10And so now, obviously, I'm wondering what's going on.
33:13And they started, like, actively eluding me, going in and out of traffic.
33:17We're just north of Salem and the rival gang.
33:19The Gypsy Jokers had a clubhouse right off this exit.
33:21Like, Oregon was the Joker's territory, and they did not want Mongols in it.
33:27All of a sudden, this SUV, it gets off on that exit.
33:29So now I'm getting ready for a biker war.
33:31So I follow them off the exit.
33:33Well, the Gypsy Jokers clubhouse was down a couple side streets on a cul-de-sac, but you could see it from a main road.
33:38I wasn't about to follow these dudes down a cul-de-sac and get stuck.
33:41So I pulled into a gas station where I could see the clubhouse.
33:47Well, they pull up to the Gypsy Jokers clubhouse.
33:51And they crack their window just far enough that I could see a hand.
33:55And he did this to me, pointed, like, a finger gun at me.
34:00It became very clear at this point that these were not lost people that took a wrong turn.
34:05I wasn't sure if this was Gypsy Jokers, if this was Hell's Angels.
34:09All I knew is they were there to hurt me.
34:11There's no doubt that star players needed to be treated differently.
34:20In the NBA, there was a lot of times where Charles Barkley was very difficult to deal with.
34:25One time, I ended up calling a technical foul on him.
34:29And he said he didn't do what, you know, I felt that he did.
34:32And the coach was giving me a hard time.
34:34And after it was over, in the locker room, I showed the tape to the coach.
34:38And he said that I was right.
34:40And he went in and said something to Barkley.
34:42And when I was in the shower, Barkley came into the referee's locker room,
34:46took all the Gatorades out of the cooler,
34:48and dumped a big bucket of ice water over my head in the shower,
34:52and ran out laughing.
34:53And two other referees in the locker room at the time said,
34:57you can turn him in and he'll get suspended, he'll get fined, or you can let it go,
35:01and he'll be your buddy for life.
35:03So I ended up letting it go.
35:05And every time I saw him, he always gave me a wink and a nod and really never bothered me again.
35:09And my heart was racing and waiting for a door to open anything so I could see who they were.
35:17They turned around and they started going back towards the interstate.
35:20And so now I'm thinking they know I'm not at home, so are they going back to my house?
35:23So I had to make sure that they weren't there for me and that my family was going to be safe.
35:26When I get back on the interstate south, we're back in this chase.
35:31And so now I'm locked in.
35:32Every time I try to get next to them to get an ID, they would weave in and out of traffic or speed up.
35:36And I noticed they were heading towards Eugene, which was a major city.
35:42We had a chapter there.
35:43That's when I called the Eugene brothers and told them that I needed their help identifying who this car was
35:47and laid out the plan where I wanted them to sit on the side of the road
35:50and I would tell them when to merge with traffic and let's get next to these guys
35:52and see if we could see who they were.
35:59Yeah, all right. No, no, I see you guys. All right, yeah, yeah.
36:02And so as we get into town, we were in communication and I'd say,
36:05okay, we're coming up on the overpass. These guys get on the interstate.
36:07So now we've got cars and motorcycles chasing this SUV.
36:11It got to the point where we started realizing that these guys aren't going to pull over.
36:14So then our next idea is, well, let's box them in.
36:18As we're driving, we're all on the phone and we're communicating back and forth.
36:22And by now we're close enough where to say, okay, you're on the front right, you pull in front.
36:25And once he pulls in front, you get next to him.
36:27So we just kind of orchestrated it on the fly.
36:29And so it was easier to get the cars kind of around him.
36:32Well, the car that was in front of him, our car, got in front and slammed on their brakes
36:35because he was trying to stop them.
36:40All of their lights turned red and blue.
36:42Instantly we realized, these dudes are cops.
36:46We just pulled over the law, right?
36:48So now it went from these are enemies to these are cops.
36:51And so everyone I was with took off.
36:54More than anger, I had questions.
36:56Why didn't they identify themselves as cops?
36:57Why did they run for me?
36:59Why didn't they hit their lights sooner?
37:00Like, I just had all these questions more than anything.
37:04I pull into a shopping mall, like a big parking lot.
37:07The SUV turns around and it faces me, but it kept its distance and no one would get out of the car.
37:11So we had this weird, like, stare-off.
37:13So I'm sitting there for a minute and I look in my mirror and there's about 13 cops surrounding me, maybe more.
37:18I mean, it was just a dozen cops all around my car, guns out, telling me to get out of the car.
37:23So obviously I comply, but I'm nervous.
37:27And finally one of the two guys gets out of the car and it's an ATF agent.
37:31I had met this ATF agent once before when he warned me that the other clubs in Oregon were out Mongol hunting
37:36and there was a threat on me and the Mongols.
37:38And he was walking up towards me, shaking his head, saying, mooch, mooch, mooch.
37:42He was joking around. He was laughing about it.
37:44He's saying, hey, man, that was a game of cat and mouse.
37:46We were just going to see how long he'd follow us, see who'd run out of gas first.
37:49Like, he was making it a joke.
37:50And he goes, but I don't see you doing anything wrong.
37:53They're probably going to cut you loose here in a minute.
37:55And the next thing you know, I'm in the back of a police car going to jail.
37:58And in the interrogation, I asked all sorts of questions.
38:06Why didn't you identify yourself as law enforcement?
38:08How come you didn't call me if you have my phone number?
38:10Like, all those things.
38:11And then they got up and left and said, well, we're going to book you.
38:14And I said, for what?
38:15Initially, they said attempted assault.
38:17And I said, OK, what a joke, right?
38:19I'll be out.
38:19The jails were all overcrowded.
38:21Attempted assault.
38:22Sure, I'll be kicked out in the morning.
38:23And I'm sitting there in the room getting ready to see a judge.
38:25And they slide my indictment under the door.
38:27And it had attempted to commit kidnapping, conspiracy to commit kidnapping, all against federal agents.
38:32Since I forced them to move from one direction to another, from going from the center lane to the fast lane,
38:37that that was kidnapping because I made them go in a direction they didn't want to go.
38:40I was facing the rest of my life in prison.
38:44They had offered me a plea bargain.
38:45If I pled guilty to the unlawful use of a weapon, I would do two years in prison.
38:50But I was absolutely innocent.
38:51You know, I didn't do anything wrong.
38:53And I really wanted this to come out in court.
38:55So I denied the plea bargain.
38:56And I took it to trial.
38:58And ended up being found not guilty of all the felony charges.
39:00And I was found guilty of menacing and reckless driving.
39:03So, you know, I did the two months leading up to it.
39:05A day after being sentenced, I was released due to jail overcrowding.
39:08And my sentence was commuted to road crew and community service.
39:12I went on a high-speed police chase where I chased the cops.
39:15And basically got away with it.
39:16So, I served a full 24 months.
39:23Prison time for me was actually relatively easy.
39:25I did a lot of art.
39:26I tattooed in prison.
39:27You weren't supposed to tattoo in prison, but I tattooed in prison anyway.
39:30And I realized that tattooing was my calling.
39:33And that's what I'm supposed to be doing.
39:35So now I'm a professional tattoo artist.
39:36As long as I'm breathing and I'm not in prison, there's always going to be a future.
39:42So you can't really think about the past.
39:43You can't let the past affect who you are now.
39:46You work on yourself every single day.
39:47And that's just what life is.
39:49It's just day by day and step by step.
39:57So when I was in jail, I was a barber there.
40:01I honed my skills there.
40:03And I'm a barber ever since.
40:06I'm booked solid tomorrow night, Friday night, and Saturday.
40:10Swamped.
40:11Haircuts every 15 minutes.
40:14I think Batista and his crew made millions of dollars per game.
40:18And I was getting $2,000 per correct pick.
40:20You would like to think I had a million dollars buried somewhere.
40:23I'd like to tell you that I did.
40:24But, you know, unfortunately, I don't.
40:27I'm in real estate.
40:27I have several rental properties.
40:29And, you know, basically a landlord.
40:31I think when you take accountability for something that you do wrong, people tend to understand more.
40:39But just the stigma of it always around, and that's what people want to talk about, can be tough.
40:44Everybody makes mistakes.
40:46You know, some people's mistakes are for the world to see.
40:49With hard work and determination, you know, you can get through things.
40:53You can get back to where you want to be.
40:57I'd spent 15 years of my life in that club.
41:00I decided it was time for me to leave the Mongols and move on with my life.
41:04After leaving the club, I got really focused back on my work.
41:07You know, I'm a social worker.
41:08I do multisystemic therapy for teens that are on parole probation, so I get to give back.
41:12We're trying to help kids stay out of the system or navigate the system when they're in it.
41:15Young me was always about this reputation of tough guy, right?
41:19I wanted to be known as a tough guy.
41:21And with everything I've been through and where I am now in life, I just want to be known as a good guy.
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