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Paddy Gower Has Issues Season 2 Episode 5
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00:00Hello Kiwis, I'm Paddy Gower and I have got issues on the show.
00:13We investigate issues big and small that are important to all of us.
00:17And tonight, Lisette Raymer investigates weight loss game changer, Wigovi.
00:22Shouldn't it be free for people who need it most?
00:25And carry-on bags have to be 7kgs, but what if the scale is wrong and you get stung?
00:3265 bucks.
00:33Karen is on the case.
00:50Tonight, my issue is with weight loss drugs.
00:53The future is here and it's not just for Oprah.
00:56It could be for you or somebody you know.
00:59You can now get skinnier with a visit to your GP and a quick trip to the pharmacy.
01:04You will have heard, of course, of a drug called Ozempic.
01:07Well, New Zealand has now got the same drug under the name Wigovi.
01:11And it is expensive, starting at $459.99 for just a month's supply.
01:17But heaps of people out there are already on it and there will be a lot of skinnier people soon.
01:24But they will, of course, be the ones who can afford it.
01:27And that is my issue here.
01:29Should we be getting it to those who really need it?
01:32Because there is no sugar coating it.
01:35We have a massive problem with our weight in New Zealand.
01:38One in three adults are overweight.
01:41That's 1.5 million Kiwis.
01:45We are the third most obese country on planet Earth.
01:49This is literally crushing our health system.
01:52And the costs that come with it are absolutely huge.
01:56Now, I am all about solutions.
02:00So are these weight loss drugs the miracle drug that can help save our health system?
02:06This really is an issue for all of us.
02:14Well, I'm joined tonight, of course, by my friend and investigator, Karen O'Leary.
02:18And investigating weight loss drugs with me is my friend and one of the best reporters I know, Lisette Raymer.
02:25Lisette, do you know much about this?
02:27Yeah, I know quite a lot about it because I'm on it.
02:31I've been taking Wigovi ever since I saw it blow up overseas.
02:36I was intrigued and I wanted to know more.
02:38And I think one of the things we were hearing a lot about is this food noise.
02:42I didn't know what that was.
02:43And it turns out, really, I've been living with it my entire life.
02:47I thought it was pretty normal for you to just go about your day constantly thinking about your next meal.
02:52But what Wigovi does is it just shuts down all that noise completely and you never feel hungry.
02:58And as someone who has always struggled to say no to another snack or has struggled with portion control,
03:04as soon as Wigovi entered New Zealand, curiosity just got the better of me.
03:10And I was booking a doctor's appointment.
03:11Some people just can't switch it off.
03:17It's a constant hum in the background, an intrusive nagging that's hard to ignore.
03:23Like a kid in a candy shop.
03:25Okay.
03:26Always scanning for the next snack, consumed by the next meal.
03:31I think I'm just going to grab the potato one.
03:33Okay, so this is what I'm calling the last supper.
03:36My whole life, I've, um, my weight has yo-yoed.
03:40And the idea of having it stabilised and not being something I have to worry about and waste brain power on really appeals.
03:49It's actually really exciting, but obviously a bit nerve-wracking.
03:52And I think mostly I just don't really believe it's going to work for me because I don't necessarily eat when I'm hungry.
03:59I just eat because I really love food, obviously.
04:03But it's a love-hate relationship because I am one of the nearly 1.5 million New Zealanders who fit within the uncomfortable, unhealthy category of obesity.
04:16And I want to do something about it.
04:20Do you have food noise?
04:21I always want a savoury treat.
04:25At this clinic, there's wraparound support.
04:28Miriam is a dietician.
04:31Well, I think Wigovi gives you the space to make really healthy food choices and to change your habits.
04:38Wigovi acts as a circuit breaker.
04:41By mimicking a hormone we have in our gut, it makes you feel full.
04:46You'll eat your three meals a day.
04:47In between meals, you're just not hungry and it won't cross your mind.
04:51Hi, Doc.
04:52Next door, I find Dr. Lara Courtney, a weight loss specialist and my soon-to-be Wigovi dealer.
05:00She explains why my weight has always fluctuated.
05:04And our body's actually really good at what we call protecting our set weight and our set weight is the heaviest weight we've ever been.
05:11No matter how you lose weight, including these medications, your body is going to try to drag the weight back up to that set weight.
05:20No prescription is handed over without a warning of side effects.
05:24And Wigovi is no exception.
05:27There's a risk of pancreatitis, while nausea and constipation are common.
05:32So reward is greater than the risk.
05:34Totally.
05:34And so, like, the pancreatitis risk is super low.
05:38Still, I was probably slightly too excited when a couple of hours later, I've got the goods.
05:45Expensive things do have a habit of hiding in small boxes.
05:50And this one, housing a month's worth of Wigovi and some very scary needles, is no exception.
05:57It's all feeling very real.
06:00I've got to tear this off.
06:02Whoa, needle.
06:02Oh, okay.
06:04So this is £459.99.
06:07It's a lot of money to be about to inject into my body.
06:12The dosage is reviewed monthly, starting at 0.25 milligrams.
06:17We are good to go.
06:19We are all clear for liftoff.
06:23Oh my gosh, that is so stressful.
06:26Beginner's hysteria, also a common side effect, I'm told.
06:32Okay, ready?
06:33Steady.
06:34F***.
06:35Oh, sorry for the swearing.
06:37Okay, now I hold it down.
06:41Oh, okay.
06:42It was unbelievably easy.
06:45Um, done.
06:47Now I guess we wait for the magic to happen.
06:53Whoa, so that was seven weeks ago.
06:56How's it all going?
06:57Yeah, it's honestly been the craziest ride.
07:00And I think, honestly, when I reflect, I definitely had underestimated what I was getting myself in for.
07:05Yeah, now we talked about food noise there, but what's the science behind it?
07:09It seems fascinating.
07:10Yeah, it is so, so interesting, Patty.
07:12These drugs mimic a natural hormone in the gut called GLP-1, and that helps to control your blood sugar levels, reduce your appetite.
07:20Essentially, it's telling your brain, I'm not hungry, I'm really, really full.
07:23And Wagovi and the more famous Hollywood version, Ozempic, are brand names of the same basic drug called semaglutide, and they're made by a Denmark-based pharmaceutical company, Novo Nordisk.
07:35So how has that manifested itself in you?
07:38Well, if you take something like ice cream, which I just love, we took a trip to Duck Island as a friend group, and I just wasn't interested in it at all.
07:46And that's just one example of seven weeks of craziness.
07:51Have a look at my Wagovi diary.
07:53It's just taken me an hour to eat a bowl of soup that I usually would demolish in probably five minutes.
08:06It's the end of my first full day.
08:09Side effects, I'm totally fine.
08:11I've just got up to get ready for work, and I just feel unbelievably nauseous.
08:17No, but I do just go for it up.
08:19And usually I would always have hot chicks at halftime, and honestly I've just haven't found the desire at all, which is so weird.
08:30I've just woken up, felt overwhelming nausea, and vomited.
08:34The mornings suck, and obviously I've never had a child, I've never been pregnant, but it's giving morning sickness.
08:42I'm walking around like a lost puppy.
08:45I have no inspiration because I'm just, I can't even think about food, and all I've got in my drolly is toilet paper and tuna.
08:52So, I'm at the Pie Awards tonight, and Imogen is devastated.
08:57Why?
08:57There's no pies.
08:59There's no pies.
08:59Not a problem for me.
09:00Wouldn't be having one anyway.
09:02Not hungry.
09:03Turns out I could fit in a pie.
09:04Okay, the update, update is actually I was all talk, and that's probably as much as this pie that I'm interested in.
09:13No disrespect to the supreme pie winner.
09:16What's quite weird now doing this week too, is that I know what's coming, so I'm even less interested.
09:22Can confirm I'm still vomiting.
09:23One of the side effects that you're warned about is the loss of muscle, especially extra motivation I guess to get to the gym.
09:29Tomorrow is jab day, so I've definitely felt my hunger returning.
09:33I feel better about doing it this week.
09:36I think it's maybe because I'm starting to see some results.
09:39Yeah, power to the needle.
09:41For those of you wondering what a birthday on Wigovi looks like, it looks like a cauliflower cake instead of a cheesecake.
09:47We've all been drinking all day.
09:50Everybody else has gone out to get burgers for dinner.
09:53I'm just not hungry at all.
09:55Obviously a change.
09:57I don't know, I've just had a bad day.
09:58I'm in a bad mood, and I want some delicious food.
10:02A few regrets.
10:04It's almost 1am, and I just can't get to sleep.
10:08Bachelor.
10:10Oh my god.
10:11Week six, and I'm still vomiting.
10:14I'm like three days into my higher dose, and it's making such a huge difference.
10:20Overall, definitely feeling more energised, obviously eating better, obviously losing a bit of weight.
10:26Today I had my first experience with like a judgement around taking Wigovi.
10:32I'm starting to get a bit nervous about ever coming off this drug, which is weird how quickly I've become attached to it.
10:43But here we go.
10:47Oh, that was awesome.
10:49Now, time for the big reveal.
10:53You're going to take your clothes off?
10:55No, I won't be taking my clothes off.
10:57How much weight have you lost?
10:58As of this morning, in just under seven weeks, 11 kgs.
11:04Wow.
11:05Whoa, that is incredible.
11:07Yeah.
11:07Yeah.
11:07It is unbelievably effective.
11:10It is a super, super powerful drug.
11:12I guess the problem with me and the risk now is I can come off it and very quickly pile that weight back on.
11:18And the thing with Wigovi is it targets your muscle.
11:21So you're losing a lot of muscle, and then when you put that weight back on, it's typically going to be fat gain.
11:26So you're potentially doing more harm than good if you don't make good decisions and really establish some better healthy eating habits.
11:34So the question is, will you keep going on at the set?
11:37I honestly don't know.
11:39The reality is it's so expensive.
11:42Super, super expensive.
11:43And I don't think I can justify or afford it.
11:47I have done some maths and I definitely am saving money food-wise.
11:50My grocery bill is down probably not $500 a month worth, but maybe half that.
11:56Wow.
11:57Wow.
11:57So you're not sure by the sounds of things, but we'll get more into that soon.
12:01But coming up, we meet a Kiwi who has been on a trial for a future weight loss drug and saw a dark side.
12:09And airlines are insistent your carry-on bag has to be seven kgs, but Aaron and Lauren say their scales are wrong.
12:17So Karen weighs in.
12:20Welcome back to Paddy Gower Has Issues, and we are talking about weight loss drugs.
12:33And now it is time to go behind these issues.
12:40Okay, remember, we have got a massive obesity problem in this country.
12:45The third highest rate of obesity in the OECD, with one in three adults and one in eight kids considered obese.
12:55And being that overweight can lead to major health issues like diabetes, heart and liver disease, and much, much more.
13:02And the government says it is costing the country as much as $9 billion a year.
13:08Now, remember that figure, $9 billion.
13:12Now, Wagovi isn't taxpayer-funded right now, and that is why it is so expensive.
13:17And Pharmac, our drug buying agency, need the drug company Novo Nordisk to make a formal application before it can even consider funding it.
13:27Now, for a third of those obese adults we've been talking about, the ones most at risk of serious health complications, that is 500,000 Kiwis, by the way.
13:37At $6,000 a year per person, it would cost us $3 billion annually.
13:42Now, that is a lot of money, but it is a lot less than that $9 billion that obesity is currently costing us.
13:50Now, this is obviously paddy maths, but it shows us that the cost-benefit analysis does stack up.
13:58Now, the weight loss drug game is only just beginning.
14:02There are new, more advanced versions coming down the pipeline all the time.
14:07And you may not know it, but here in NZ, we are at the forefront of it all, because as a nation, we are considered one of the best places to test new medications.
14:18So, what can we expect in the future?
14:21Well, I met one Kiwi participant who has tested the next big weight loss drug that isn't even on the market yet.
14:29You know, it's really hard looking at yourself and thinking, I don't want to look like that, but what can I do?
14:44Neil Wilkinson has struggled with his weight for two decades.
14:4820 years of not being able to look at yourself in the mirror?
14:52Yeah, yeah.
14:53Wow.
14:55It's a long time, eh?
14:56A really long time, Neil.
14:57He tried all kinds of diets.
15:00None of them worked.
15:02So I thought, you know, there's a weight loss trial.
15:08Maybe this can help me.
15:10His wife, Cara, was not convinced.
15:13My first initial reaction was like, no.
15:16No, why do you need to inject yourself or put a drug into your system to lose weight?
15:20But Neil signed up.
15:22He was one of around 500 people on the trial worldwide.
15:26You're out in the future, trialling something.
15:30It's not even here yet.
15:32Did it feel exciting or what was the vibe?
15:35It felt really exciting.
15:37One of the issues with the current drugs is that patients can lose muscle mass.
15:43This trial combined two medications, a weight loss drug and a second to preserve muscle mass.
15:51They provided a lot of support.
15:54I knew it was a wonder drug, but I didn't expect what would come from it.
16:01Three months in, Neil's weight started to drop dramatically.
16:07All up, I dropped 30 kgs.
16:09Incredible.
16:10119 kgs down to 89.
16:13Yeah.
16:1330 kgs, gone.
16:15Yeah.
16:16But the drug came with side effects.
16:18Headaches, being lethargic, not wanting to do anything, nausea, acne.
16:28He was short-tempered.
16:30The responsibility fell on me to do a lot more around the house because he didn't have the energy.
16:36And just the whole losing your husband, losing your partner.
16:40You felt that that happened, that you lost him?
16:42The person he was, yeah.
16:44He was always such a happy person.
16:48I don't see that.
16:50And you couldn't even tell that was happening?
16:52No.
16:53I was checking my weight daily.
16:56If I didn't lose weight, I would basically stop eating.
17:01So that would force my weight to drop.
17:06I was looking back at previous photos and I could actually see how gaunt I was looking.
17:16So you became obsessed by weight loss?
17:18Yeah.
17:19Obsessed is the word, yeah.
17:21Mm.
17:22The weight loss became an addiction.
17:24Christmas Day was the nightmare.
17:26Mm.
17:26Because I had all the food I wanted, but I was just picking.
17:30I was picking like a sparrow.
17:32The only enjoyment that I could actually see was looking at myself in the mirror and seeing
17:41how much weight I had lost.
17:43But outside of that, there was no enjoyment.
17:47That's really sad, Neil.
17:49If I didn't have the understanding I have on mental health and lifestyles in general,
17:54we wouldn't be together.
17:56I would have walked away, but I was there to support my husband through something.
18:01Because it wasn't his fault.
18:02Look what was happening.
18:06When the trial ended, Neil's weight shot up.
18:10Four or five months after I'd stopped the medication, then the weight started to pack on.
18:19And it packed on very fast.
18:21And there was nothing I could do to stop it.
18:25I hadn't changed my eating habits.
18:27Within six months I was back at my starting weight.
18:30So within six months you were back to 119 kg.
18:34Yeah.
18:35You got heavier after coming off weight loss drugs.
18:39Yeah.
18:40You were gutted.
18:41I was gutted, yeah.
18:42And I think this is where people need to be aware of how these wonder injections actually work.
18:53You know, once you start it, you've got to stay on it.
18:56There is no magic bullet as such.
19:03Yeah.
19:03Important to remember, of course, that Neil is just one person's experience on a very,
19:09very big drug trial.
19:10And, of course, he was in the unfortunate position because it was a trial that he was not able
19:15to keep going on the drug.
19:16I mean, I found that whole thing really heartbreaking.
19:19Like, you know, they just both looked really sad.
19:21He was trying to do something positive for himself and for his whānau, and it looked like
19:24he got the complete opposite almost.
19:25Yeah.
19:25Can you see any parallels there, Lisette, with your experience?
19:29Yeah, I can a little bit.
19:30No one in my family knew I was doing this.
19:32And I had one day recently, I'd spent with them, and I got a message afterwards from
19:37one of my sisters, which was quite unusual, asking me if I was OK because I just didn't
19:41seem myself, which was quite confronting for me.
19:45When I reflected on it, I probably was a little bit flatter than usual.
19:50Yeah, an incredibly, incredibly powerful drug.
19:52And coming up, what chance is there, though, to properly fund weight loss drugs for others?
19:58I sit down to face the one man who can answer that question.
20:03And if two scales say your carry-on is under 7kgs, but the scales at the gate say 8kgs,
20:10should you have to pay?
20:11Well, Karen takes it all the way to the top.
20:24Welcome back to Paddy Gower Has Issues.
20:27We are investigating weight loss drugs.
20:29And what comes next, Lisette?
20:30Yeah, look, I'm very aware that I'm super privileged to have access to this drug.
20:35It is so, so expensive.
20:37And I don't really need it.
20:40Apart from some mental health benefits and feeling better, I don't have obesity-related
20:45health issues.
20:46And the reality is, those who do need it most in this country will not be able to afford
20:51it.
20:52It's just so expensive.
20:53So I went to see the kind of people that need it, but just can't get it.
20:58Three, two, one.
21:00Time on.
21:0230 minutes of work.
21:03Don't forget to take breaks.
21:04Don't forget to drink your water, all right?
21:06This gym is full of grit.
21:12Excellent.
21:13It's full of hurt and heart and hard work.
21:17Turn it on, then on to the next one.
21:19It's full of mana.
21:20It's full of determination.
21:22It's dripping in sweat.
21:25Nice, guys.
21:26It's full of beasts.
21:29They call themselves the old beast crew, and not one of them can afford a govi.
21:38Nice.
21:39If money wasn't a factor, Terimawana would be first in line for the weight loss drug.
21:45How much has weight weighed on your mind over the years?
21:50A lot.
21:52Because when you wake up in the morning, oh my gosh, a story.
21:54Yeah, that kind of thing.
21:56But also you feel it in your body and the way you move.
22:00You know, when you're walking past shop mirrors and you see your figure.
22:03Can you tell us how many kilograms you're hoping to lose?
22:07Let me see.
22:09Goal weight is 75.
22:12Wow.
22:13Talking about over 40.
22:15Over 40?
22:17You're on a mission.
22:18Yeah.
22:18You guys get to 10.
22:19You guys go back down to 8.
22:216, 6, 6, 7, 6.
22:22Renata couldn't afford to wait for weight loss medication to be funded.
22:26So she shows up here and sweats day after day.
22:3130 minutes of this, all right?
22:33I was actually two numbers off pre-diabetic, high cholesterol.
22:37The pains I had in my body, I couldn't actually get up off the bed.
22:42I wasn't motivated.
22:45Financially, I couldn't get to work.
22:50Tash has forked out for cheaper medication in the past.
22:54I was always the bigger kid.
22:56But my heaviest, I was almost 200 kilos.
22:59And that was too much for me.
23:02She wasn't on it for long, and her weight rebounded as soon as she stopped using it.
23:08Where we are now, we can't afford all these fancy things that someone else that has a big pay packet can do.
23:15And if it is going to help, then it needs to be funded, because why not?
23:19Why not give everybody else the equal opportunity?
23:23New Zealand's obesity rates are significantly higher among Maori and Pasifika.
23:29Is it getting worse?
23:32We are finding more and more children, young people, with obesity and diabetes,
23:37you know, diseases that were originally seen just in adults.
23:43So yes, it is getting worse.
23:46The cause is complex.
23:48Stress, poor sleep, genetics, hormones, medical conditions, finances, advertising,
23:53all pile on the weight gain.
23:55You know, I don't think people intentionally go out of their way to be obese, you know.
24:02Is LaGovie a wonder drug?
24:04It is for those who can afford it.
24:07It's really designed for those who, you know, have the money.
24:10So it really is just perpetuating that inequity in society.
24:17It does nothing for those who need it the most.
24:18It does nothing for those people who need it the most.
24:21That's pretty grim, isn't it?
24:22It is. It is.
24:24Listen to when you fall and stop eating.
24:29Dr. Oli Schmidl is one of New Zealand's top weight loss doctors.
24:33And we had recent blood tests which look actually really good.
24:36He says obesity needs to be treated as what it is, a brain disease.
24:41We still blame people for their weight.
24:46That we think that it's basically laziness and gluttony that people are responsible for their own obesity.
24:52But we should know better, we do know better, that actually it is a condition that is genetically determined,
25:00that people who are born heavier will always be heavier.
25:04He believes drugs like Wegovy could ease the burden on the health system.
25:10I would probably say around 30% of people who are in hospital have something related to their weight.
25:18Doing something, especially for the very heavy people, would save quite a bit of money for the health system.
25:24Rewind 50 years and it was smoking choking New Zealand's hospitals.
25:32Oli thinks the obesity epidemic calls for a smoke-free style movement.
25:37We have an unhealthy advertising and fast food culture that has permeated very much through the society.
25:52Oli's patient, Vanessa, has grappled with obesity since she was a child.
25:58After bariatric surgery, she struggled to keep the weight off, so turned to Saxenda,
26:04a diabetes medication used for weight loss.
26:08I think I was paying around $600 a month for Saxenda at the time.
26:12How do you afford that?
26:13And I couldn't, so it was a real sacrifice for me and my family.
26:17And I remember at one point being really embarrassed to be spending money on that.
26:23But with the food noise gone, she was able to reset before it escalated.
26:29Now living her healthiest, happiest life.
26:32What would 16-year-old Vanessa think if you told her that Wiggovy was available?
26:40Sorry.
26:41Oh.
26:4416-year-old Vanessa would have, um, just been really relieved.
26:49I think what's really important with this is that absolutely nobody is saying that this is a one-stop magic shop.
26:58They're saying that Wiggovy is a really powerful tool in the toolbox when we're fighting obesity.
27:03And when it comes to who might get it funded, the resounding feeling is to start with those who are most critical first.
27:11For example, funding it for people who are too heavy to get bariatric surgery.
27:16Yeah, something that really stood out for me was the doctor saying 30% of hospital admissions might be linked to obesity.
27:22That's the kind of thing that we could really bring down, but we would need it to be funded so that people could get it.
27:29So I got a hold of Novo Nordis, who make Wiggovy, and I wanted to know when and if they are going to apply to Pharmac to have their drug publicly funded in New Zealand.
27:41I can't give you the timelines, but what I can tell you is that the company and we are in discussions with Pharmac.
27:49When that will happen, I unfortunately wouldn't have the aid, but hopefully this year, towards the end of the year, we will aim to have something.
27:59Okay, well that's a bit of news there.
28:02Basically, they are going to apply.
28:03It's going to be towards the end of this year, and they're talking to Pharmac right now.
28:07So time to talk to the Minister responsible for Pharmac, the Associate Health Minister and Deputy Prime Minister, David Seymour.
28:15Thank you for joining us today.
28:17New Zealand has an obesity problem.
28:19That's a huge cost to our health system.
28:21Should drugs like Wiggovy be publicly funded, in your view?
28:26Well, what gets publicly funded is decided arm's length by Pharmac.
28:30If politicians decided these things, everything would be a popularity contest.
28:35But if you just ask me, finger in the wind, basic principles.
28:40We need more technology to keep up with demand in medicine.
28:44The numbers don't work otherwise, because there's more people getting old, requiring health care.
28:49There's not enough people to look after them.
28:51Got to have more technology.
28:53This, on the face of it, seems like a good example of that.
28:56You just need to make sure that the professionals down the other end of Wellington at Pharmac have checked out the numbers.
29:01Deputy Prime Minister, Nova Nordisk, the company that owns Wiggovy, has just told us it is in talks with Pharmac right now, and it will.
29:11It will place an application for that drug to be funded by the end of this year.
29:15What would you say to that?
29:17See, I'm not even sure I knew that, but that sounds awesome.
29:20I keep it arm's length, but I'm pleased to hear it, if that's what you're telling me.
29:24Because, you know, in the last few years, there's been a few medical companies that have actually pulled out of New Zealand.
29:30They've decided that maybe New Zealand's not a good bet for them anymore.
29:33That makes me really sad.
29:34One thing I didn't know when I came into this job is that we don't go out and ask them to sell to us.
29:41The companies actually have to come to Pharmac and ask to be funded.
29:45So we can't make them do that.
29:47But when they do, that's great news, because it means if the numbers stack up and we can afford to fund it, that's another option for New Zealanders.
29:55So it's awesome.
29:56Yeah, I think it is awesome that New Zealanders may have the opportunity to have another publicly funded drug.
30:02It may turn out to save the taxpayer money, which is sort of the two things I like.
30:07Yeah, so the potential public funding through Pharmac of weight loss drugs is awesome, in your view, or could be awesome?
30:15It could be awesome, depending on what the highly independent Pharmac say about the numbers, and I always respect their independence.
30:23Yeah, but your personal opinion as the Minister responsible for Pharmac, personally, is that it would be awesome if they were funded.
30:29Oh, I personally think it's awesome, but I don't expect anyone to take any account of that.
30:35I want them to do the numbers the right way.
30:37All right, thank you very much for your time, Deputy Prime Minister David Seymour.
30:43No worries, Patty. Pleasure.
30:47That's sounding pretty promising then, isn't it?
30:49The application's going in by the end of the year, and a Minister who probably shouldn't have an opinion thinks it's pretty awesome.
30:54Yeah, in his opinion. All right, now, tonight, my issue was with these weight loss drugs, and for me, after everything we've seen, it goes like this.
31:04It is quite obvious what we need to do here.
31:06We need to think that our health system is sick, sick from being overloaded, and we need to think of obesity as a chronic disease.
31:14There is a treatment now, a drug, a medicine, and it can help with that chronic disease, but it can also help with our sick health system.
31:22Let's not be the last in the world to fund these drugs as we always seem to be.
31:27Let's be one of the first for once, but let's start cautiously by subsidising it for the most obese and see what it does from there.
31:35But a warning. It is going to come with so many problems.
31:38These weight loss drugs might fix people's weight, but it won't fix their brains.
31:43It is going to change people, and it is going to change us as a society.
31:48Weight loss drugs might be a solution to some of our issues, but mark my words, everything won't be awesome.
31:56Weight loss drugs will cause issues of their own.
31:59All right, coming up, it is time now for what we've all been waiting for, Karen O'Leary's investigation,
32:09and Karen's mission is to get justice for Lauren and Aaron, and it leads her to another couple with exactly the same complaint.
32:17Welcome back to Paddy Gower Has Issues.
32:29We are moving on from weight loss now.
32:31Karen O'Leary, what are you serving up for us this week?
32:35Well, obviously there has been quite a bit of talk about weight in this episode,
32:38and I have also been accused of just only touching on kind of light-hearted topics,
32:41but I can assure you tonight this is a real heavy issue.
32:45What is it?
32:46It's baggage scales.
32:47Okay, yeah.
32:50Look, look, look, bear with me.
32:52No-one likes having to line up just before you're about to get on your plane
32:55and having to worry about weighing your bag just before you get on.
32:57It's even worse when you get pinged for being like a few grams over and get charged $65.
33:02But what, just what, if the scales are wrong?
33:06Like most New Zealanders with their own primetime TV show,
33:10I spend most of my days in and out of airports, and I relish every moment of it.
33:14But some people, like my best friend Aaron, don't have the smoothest transits.
33:17So, Aaron, obviously the question I've got for you is, what is your issue?
33:22My issue is with Jetstar's scales.
33:24Where scales are reading wrong and they're overcharging people.
33:29Aaron booked a Jetstar flight from Wellington to Auckland with a carry-on allowance of 7 kilos,
33:34which he confirmed at the check-in scale.
33:36The first weight was 5.44 kilos.
33:39To be extra safe, he re-weighted it in the boarding lounge.
33:42I thought, oh, I might chuck my bags on those scales and just re-check them,
33:44and it came up at 6.18.
33:47So well under 7.
33:48Well under 7, and then they were re-checking people's bags before we boarded,
33:52and it threw us over the 7-kilo margin.
33:55It was 7.5 kilos.
33:58Wow.
33:58I mean, that's a pretty big difference.
34:00Yeah, it's a massive difference.
34:01Yeah.
34:01That's a kilo.
34:02Yeah.
34:03For the extra kilo, Aaron was stung with a $65 fee.
34:06And I said, no, I'm not paying for this, because I know my bag's under.
34:10And I said, I've got photographic evidence of all these scales that are reading different.
34:15And she said she'll go and get her supervisor.
34:17Yeah.
34:17The supervisor turns up and hands me the F-Post machine.
34:20I started arguing with him, and my wife intervened and just paid for it.
34:25I mean, Aaron being Aaron, I don't back down to anything if I know I'm right.
34:29Yeah, it's like Karen being Karen.
34:30I don't back down either.
34:31I say, where's your manager?
34:32What would you say if I told you that my best friend Lauren actually had the exact same
34:36thing happen a month or two ago?
34:38It wouldn't surprise me.
34:40Four months after Aaron, Lauren found herself at the same airport, on the same airline,
34:44with the same scales.
34:46We arrived at the airport, and I said, oh, let's quickly weigh on the Jetstar scale.
34:52The weight was just on 7 kilos.
34:54Got into the boarding lounge, and again, I was like, well, just weigh one more time.
34:59From memory, it was the same weight, so we knew we were okay.
35:01And once again, staff arrived with the portable scales.
35:04I put my bag on the scale.
35:06It rolled off.
35:08It rolled off what should have been a flat scale.
35:09Correct.
35:10Right.
35:10And it weighed 8.06 kilos.
35:14She said that I had to pay the $65, and I sort of said, well, no, that ain't happening.
35:19But Karen, we were so confident we were within the 7.
35:22You've weighed.
35:23Yeah.
35:23Twice.
35:23Yeah.
35:24Yeah.
35:25While some crappy repacking helped Laura get out of her fine, Karen wasn't so lucky.
35:30And I said, I've got photographic evidence.
35:33I will be sending an email to your head office, which I did, and I heard nothing.
35:38I've reached out to Jetstar three times, contacted the Commerce Commission, and I've raised the
35:44issue with the Civil Aviation Authority in New Zealand.
35:47But with no success so far.
35:49Correct.
35:49This company's getting away with scales that are not calibrated, and they're reading the
35:54wrong weights, and they're just charging people money that they shouldn't be.
35:58What's the weight on Jetstar's shoulders for doing all this ripping off?
36:01I mean, it'd be, well, it depends which pair of scales you use to measure that, I guess.
36:05Yeah.
36:05Well, that's exactly right.
36:06So, Lauren, what would you like me to do about it?
36:08For me, it's about principle, and it's about acknowledgement.
36:12I mean, I want money back.
36:13Yeah.
36:13Because I've paid for something that I shouldn't have.
36:15And actually, how long has this been going on for, and how much has Jetstar made with
36:20dodgy scales?
36:21When you think about these airports, how many people go through those airports a day?
36:24Thousands.
36:24About 15,000 people pass through Wellington to the airport each day, and often, I'm one
36:30of them.
36:31If Jetstar's problem is plaguing even a fraction of those passengers, I need to chuck my weight
36:35behind it and figure out what's going on.
36:41So, who's in charge of making sure the scales follow the rules?
36:44I can't wait to tell you the answer when we go behind the issue.
36:51It's MB!
36:54Sorry, I just was expecting a round of applause there for that.
36:56But, you know, you're right.
36:57The answer is actually incredibly boring.
36:59No offence to people working for MB, obviously.
37:01The catchily named Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment's Trading Standards
37:06team is in charge of weighing instruments.
37:08And if a scale is used to charge passengers, they are subject to a law, a very exciting law,
37:12called the Waits and Measures Act.
37:14So, at an airport, this means the courtesy scales in the terminal don't need to be verified
37:19because they aren't used to get money from you.
37:21But any scales that charge you for luggage, like Jetstar's portable ones, must follow the
37:26official rules.
37:28Every scale has to be verified and get a cute little official seal by an official verifier.
37:32In addition to compulsory verification, businesses can choose to get a certificate of accuracy to
37:37which shows they've been calibrated correctly, which is valid for 12 months, but they aren't
37:41mandatory after the initial verification.
37:44And now, a slightly exciting thing.
37:47MB officers can conduct random checks to ensure tradery scales are up to standard, or they can
37:54follow up on complaints about scales.
37:56And they have the ability to fine up to $30,000 for dodgy instruments.
38:03And one final rule, if a business has the reason to think their scales are no longer accurate,
38:08they should get them retested and re-verified immediately before using them again.
38:13BOM BOM BOM!
38:17OK, so, are Jetstar testing their scales, Karen?
38:22Well, you'd like to think so, and that's obviously something I'm going to find out when I do talk
38:25to Jetstar.
38:26But, I mean, first after the break, I'm going to go undercover, as myself, so it's not really
38:30undercover, it's just me being myself, to stage a bit of a sting and find out what's
38:33going on with these scales.
38:34Yes, well, coming up, Karen needs answers about the scales of injustice she packs for
38:40a fight, a long trip, and a confrontation with the man.
38:45Welcome back to Paddy Gow Has Issues, where Karen is looking into some potentially dodgy
39:01Jetstar scales.
39:04Jetstar scales, yes.
39:05So, look, I mean, Wellington's my patch, so obviously I had an obligation to go and check
39:09it out.
39:09I want to speak with someone who understands the airports and their scales.
39:14Who's in charge of all the airport scales?
39:16Is that you guys?
39:18It'll be a little bit of a mix.
39:19So, most of the scales at airports I'd expect these days will be run and managed by the airlines
39:25themselves.
39:26Both times, for Aaron and for Lauren, the bags that they had weighed in the terminal, which
39:30weighed under seven kilos, all of a sudden weighed over eight.
39:33Yeah.
39:34What do you think they should do about that?
39:35We would expect a bit of variation between scales, wear and tear, just age, different
39:42models, all of those kinds of things.
39:44But I probably wouldn't have expected much more than, say, a few hundred grams or a bit
39:50of a marginal difference.
39:51We can't conclude whether there's a particular bad culprit in scale here, but we can certainly
39:59follow up and do a little bit of testing.
40:01Maybe Billy can't conclude, but I want certainty.
40:04What do I need to take to Auckland?
40:07Seven kilos isn't much, but it's enough for all my travel essentials.
40:12Some light reading, something to pass the time, suitable footwear, and some baking essentials.
40:22Hydratage.
40:24To test my hypothesis that Jetstar's boarding scales are wrong, I first need to check that
40:28my bag is the right weight.
40:30Definitely seven kilos.
40:30Seven kilos.
40:39Seven-oh-five.
40:40Yes.
40:42What's the call in eight off?
40:44Seven-oh-six.
40:45Thanks.
40:49Seven, exactly.
40:56Seven-oh-four.
40:57Seven-oh-four.
40:57Okay, so Dean, obviously, can I just, could I use your scales to see how huge my bag is?
41:13Um, you can, but you've got to put these on.
41:21And 705.
41:22So five different scales gave me pretty much the same result.
41:26But what will I get?
41:27At the airport.
41:29This is the first scale that Aaron used.
41:36708.
41:37Close enough.
41:427.1.
41:476.9.
41:48But it's minus 0.2 without a bag.
41:50So, 7.1.
41:51It's very confusing, all this weighing.
41:54And with that, we bid adieu to our camera operator.
41:56I've, um, just got here and get my bag weighed.
42:02So, um, wish me luck.
42:04Here's the boarding lounge scale Aaron and Lauren used.
42:07708 again.
42:08If you've not had your carry-on baggages weighing measured all day.
42:11That's what I'm doing right now.
42:11How do I turn the camera around?
42:14How do I flip it?
42:14Hi.
42:15So Jetstar wheels out two of their portable scales, and we get...
42:18Oh, it's a bit wobbly.
42:19Sorry.
42:207.05.
42:22That's a pass once I take out five grams.
42:24But while my scales were correct, I heard some commotion from passengers using the scale
42:28next to me.
42:29Our bags, we got them to 6.9 outside, and then we came to the Jetstar.
42:35It was apparently 8.something.
42:37Is that the same as your bag?
42:38So two bags and 6.something, all of a sudden 8.5.
42:47So Lauren, Aaron, and Kevin and Sarah all say Jetstar's portable scales are wrong, but they
42:53were well behaved for me.
42:55Sarah and Keav used a different set of scales to me, and it's possible Lauren and Aaron did
42:59too.
43:00Lauren asked to see the scales calibration records, but Jetstar wouldn't release them.
43:05And Aaron's heard nothing back from his complaint.
43:08So why would some scales be reading correctly and others incorrectly?
43:15Great investigation.
43:16So, Karen, the scales were right for you, but they were wrong for those other passengers
43:21that showed up.
43:22Yeah, that's right.
43:22It's important to note that obviously there was two sets of these mobile scales wheeled
43:25out.
43:26Two queues.
43:26I was in one, and then my bag was apparently exactly the same as I thought it was.
43:30But right next to me, at just that time, I mean, what are the chances?
43:33Sarah and Keav had exactly the same problem that Lauren and Aaron had.
43:36My takeaway from all of this is that if I'm going to do a weight loss check, then I should
43:39do it on Air New Zealand scales.
43:43That's probably a fair call.
43:44Look, so what is making these scales so temperamental?
43:46I went to get answers.
43:48This issue is beyond my weight class, so I need some help from the experts.
43:52Luckily for me, they're all inside this building.
43:55In this room are the people responsible for creating, calibrating, and maintaining scales
44:06throughout Aotearoa.
44:08So a scale should be calibrated annually.
44:11I would say probably once a quarter, every three months.
44:13They really need to be at least double checked.
44:15What we would recommend is if you're using it daily, we'd recommend you check it daily
44:19and go, I know my scale has not gone out since it's been calibrated.
44:23What kind of thing can throw scales off?
44:25Largely misuse.
44:26Not being on zero to start with.
44:27Temperature variation.
44:28Moving around.
44:29You might get bags dropped on.
44:30If you calibrate something in Auckland and then put it in Invercargill, it's actually out
44:33of calibration by the time it gets there because of gravity.
44:36When they bring out those mobile ones, the one that I went to put my suitcase on, it
44:39rolled off because it's on an angle.
44:41That's not good, is it?
44:41Once you put wheels on something and you roll it to a different level, it may rock around.
44:44And then in theory, is it trade certified at that point?
44:46Say no.
44:47No.
44:47Thank you, Stuart.
44:48Very informative.
44:50Before I stow away this investigation in the overhead compartment, there's one last person
44:54I need to speak with.
44:56We've had people saying they've weighed their bags down here, they've gone up and all of
45:00a sudden it's different.
45:00I mean, how could that be true?
45:02Obviously, the majority of our customers will be self-weighing here at the scales and unfortunately
45:07we can't monitor everyone who is self-weighing.
45:11All we can do is offer a promise that our scales are accurate and they are regularly checked
45:17and maintained.
45:18So, the scales in question, sadly for me, are in Wellington.
45:21Can you assure me that all of the scales across the country are in fact the same?
45:25We actually employ a contract company that service, maintain and calibrate our baggage scales
45:32throughout the country every year.
45:34We also have a ground team that specifically checks the scales every day pre-flight or pre-use
45:40to make sure things are working as they should.
45:42These people have said, you know, without a shadow of a doubt, their bags are different.
45:46They got charged the $65 for excess baggage.
45:50I mean, what could they have done about that in the moment?
45:53What I would say to customers is perhaps give yourself a little bit of wriggle room before
45:57you leave home.
45:58Make sure you've got that little bit of space in your baggage just to give yourself the
46:01fairest chance.
46:02And we do stand by the integrity of our scales.
46:06Now, the measurement of truth.
46:07One last weigh-in.
46:09One last thing, though, Simon.
46:10Like, this obviously, this is my bag.
46:12If you don't mind, just because you've got experience, could you just tell me, lift this
46:15up and tell me how heavy you think it is?
46:17Oh, I'd say that's definitely under or just on seven, probably less.
46:22Oh, what do I know?
46:23So you're over by four.
46:24You shouldn't get on the plane without actually paying extra for it, Karen, to be honest.
46:29I can take some things out.
46:30Hang on.
46:30You're going to have to make some decisions, Karen.
46:32Well, I could take this out.
46:34Oh, what's that there, Karen?
46:35Um, just baking.
46:37Now, what are you working about the weight on that?
46:39Four hundred.
46:39Four hundred.
46:40Let's lose one of those.
46:41Okay.
46:41Thank you so much.
46:42That's an absolute pleasure.
46:42Great.
46:43I'll travel happily now.
46:44Looking forward to welcoming you on board.
46:45Oh, yeah.
46:46I'll take those home for dinner.
46:47Right, all right.
46:47Cheers, Karen.
46:48Thank you so much.
46:48See ya.
46:53So, I mean, not surprisingly, perhaps, no real acknowledgement for Jetstar about, you
46:58know, doing anything wrong.
46:59All they could do is assure me that they check their scales, like, every day.
47:03You know, now, what I've actually realised is I now travel with this, which is a one, what?
47:08It's a one kilo weight.
47:09Feel that.
47:09So, I do use that now so that I can check.
47:11I've only got six kilos now in my luggage, but I do know that the scales are absolutely
47:15correct, because I can test them with this thing.
47:17I've also heard that Lauren is going to take her complaint to MB, so hopefully she gets
47:21some traction there.
47:22I went back to Jetstar and said, look, come on, guys, you know, what can you do for my
47:25friends who have had a bit of a rough time?
47:27Funnily enough, they said, can't be bothered doing anything.
47:29So, then, I went to Air New Zealand and said, come on, guys, what can you guys want to
47:33come to the party?
47:34And you know what?
47:34They said, yes, of course, we feel their pain, so I've managed to get a $500 voucher
47:38for all of my lovely people, and I'm going to give Lauren to this right now, because
47:41she's right here.
47:42Yeah.
47:42Keep going.
47:42Whoa.
47:43Whoa.
47:43Whoa.
47:43Whoa.
47:43Whoa.
47:47Thank you, Karen.
47:48You never, ever stop fighting for Kiwis, and thank you, Lisette.
47:51What an amazing, amazing investigation.
47:53You look fantastic.
47:54And thank you to everyone who shared their issue with us tonight.
47:59Thank you so much to our studio audience as well, and thank you for watching.
48:04I'm Paddy Gower, and I still have issues, because we still have issues.
48:09See you next Tuesday.
48:12Cheers.
48:12Cheers.
48:13Cheers.
48:13Cheers.
48:14Cheers.
48:17I've got no issues with New Zealand On Air.
48:22Thank you, New Zealand On Air.
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