- 2 hours ago
In this episode of Democratic Newsroom, the focus is on two major stories – the Chief Election Commissioner's (CEC) directive for verification of burqa-clad voters at polling booths during the Bihar assembly elections, and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Bawal over Bihar's Burkha Verification
00:06CEC Order Sparks Political Storm
00:30Vipaksh Sees Insult to Faith
00:33E.C. Speaking BJP's Language
00:40Bajpaa Jho Bahasa Bola Rahi Hai
00:43Wahi Bahasa Chunao Ayo Ke Dwarah Bola Ja Raha Hai
00:47Ye Toh Kisi Ke Bhi Dharamik Bhaavnao Ko Aahat Karne Baali Baat Hai
00:53B.J.P. Opposition Stoking Communal Fire
01:00R.J.D.R. Kongolese के लोग बेबज़ा इसे साब परदाई के रंग देने की कोशिश में है
01:04लेकिन भाजपा नहीं हमांग इसलिए रखी है
01:07ताकि चुनाओ की पार्दसिता और चुनाओ का सुधी करफ दो सके
01:10Parties Putting Politics और India First
01:23Good evening, Parda Nashi women will have to show their faces and identity cards
01:31Aanganwadi workers in Bihar, they will identify should there be an issue
01:38and this is to ensure that elections in Bihar are pure and that there is no bogus voting
01:45There have been allegations that Parda Nashi women are in the garb of wearing a burqa
01:51or a hijab or a niqab or a parda or a gungat, fake voting has happened
01:57Allegations, counter allegations and this is now escalating
02:00because the opposition is saying that the election commission or the CEC is speaking the BJP's language
02:06The BJP is accusing the opposition of vote bank politics or communal politics
02:11But what's the truth? Has the election commission said something that's bad in law
02:18or it's a reiteration of rules that have always been followed?
02:22We have a full house here
02:24The best team of political reporters, diplomatic reporters, vote reporters and business reporters
02:31anchors with me on this broadcast, let's start
02:34Maria Shakil has been covering Bihar extensively as has Preeti Chaudhary, Anisha Mathur, Gita Mohan, Siddharth Zarabi, Soya Shah Savant and Preeti Chaudhary
02:43A little role reversal so I am anchoring the Democratic Newsroom today
02:46Preeti joins us since she's been reporting extensively but Maria, take it away, explain this furor
02:51Does the election commission have data to suggest that women wearing burqa or women who are Pardhanashi
03:01are actually conducting electoral fraud in the name of their attire?
03:05If the election commission has such data then they should put it out
03:11Does it also mean that the elections in Bihar in 2024 was conducted with this issue in mind and also the 2020 Bihar Assembly elections, these are most recent elections
03:24Because Gora, let's not forget that it's alright for political parties to raise constant bogeys that there are infiltrators who are part of the electoral list
03:35But election commission is a constitutional body, it has to back its arguments or SOPs with rationale
03:42Which is not happening here, first
03:44Second, before an individual goes to cast his or her ballot, there are three or four checkpoints
03:55The checkpoints of verification happen three times inside a polling booth and once outside
04:01Whenever there are elections, in general there will be more deployment of police
04:06This SOP will lead to bias and will lead to harassment of a particular community
04:13If it is conducted in the manner in which it will be
04:16Because the verification nobody is running away from
04:21Verification should happen
04:22But then the election commission cannot become a political party
04:26Election commission is a constitutional body
04:28And it has to back its arguments with data
04:31And it doesn't have that data that women wearing burqa or women who are parda nashi
04:37Are actually conducting electoral fraud
04:39Okay, so Yesha, is there merit in the contention that
04:43Just to ask a woman that
04:46Okay, you want to vote, show us your face, match it with the eye card
04:49This is a bias on the part of the election commission
04:52I don't understand why identification should be deemed as vilification or targeting a certain community
05:00I mean, it is about identification
05:02A Muslim woman who travels, who goes to the airport
05:06You are carrying a passport, your picture, your ID cards, your documents
05:09They have your picture
05:11What is the problem if the identification is carried out?
05:14And here the election commission is laying very clear guidelines
05:17Of how the identification should be
05:19Anganwari workers, women polling staff
05:23Who will conduct this check
05:24They are very clear that it's not the cops
05:26Not that any random person can tell you
05:28Oh, lift your burqa and show us your face
05:30And we have to identify you
05:31Okay
05:32It is being done in a proper manner
05:33In a secluded manner
05:34And if that is the case, why not?
05:36In fact, I was going through a lot of comments
05:38Some Muslim women have said that
05:40When, and by the way, they are burqa clad women
05:44Who have said that according to Islam, it is important you align your religion with the ideals of the nation that you live in
05:49And if the election commission has asked for our pictures, we have no objection to it
05:54Another woman who has gone on to say that uncovering the face for identification is fine
05:58As long as you are not saying that we should remove the burqa and cast our vote
06:02There should be no problem
06:03And if Muslim women are asked to go to Mecca
06:06Any which way you are travelling with a passport, you are showing a picture
06:09The two aren't the same
06:11Let's not, you know, women going to Mecca, I have been to Mecca, I have done Hajj
06:15So, you know, I have not covered my face
06:17What is the problem with identification?
06:18The problem here is that the identification already happens
06:23There are four checkpoints where identification happens
06:27Where verification happens
06:29It's a state where women outnumber men in overall casting of the vote
06:35That's how aware women in general in Bihar are
06:38They have been following all the processes in casting their vote
06:42Which is okay
06:42Anisha wants to come in and pretty quickly
06:44Random checking is not something that they are doing
06:46Just clarify just one point
06:48The entire debate, the entire political argument that is being made
06:54At the moment about women of a particular religion being targeted
06:58Or that the CEC is doing the line of a political party
07:04The political argument itself is on a very, very fallacious point
07:08A politician cannot legally, illegally look, verify a voter
07:16It is not allowed under the law
07:18No, but it's being done
07:19Here it is being done by the Anganwadi Mahila worker
07:22That is what I am saying
07:22Let me make my point Gaurav
07:23When you have instances of politicians
07:26And which has happened in the last few elections
07:28Of politicians going out and looking at the line of voters waiting
07:32Saying please lift your burka, we want to verify
07:35That is completely and patently illegal
07:37Look at what the election commission rules are saying
07:39And for once I will say that what the CEC has said about putting in Anganwadi workers
07:46Is actually what the law says
07:48What is the law?
07:50At the polling booth
07:51And I am reiterating again
07:52At the polling booth
07:54When you get your finger inked
07:56The polling officer
07:58Who has to be a lady officer
08:00Mind you
08:01The rules say it must be
08:03And only must be a lady officer
08:05Can and should take a woman
08:08Who is Parda Nashi
08:09To a secluded section
08:11That is created specifically
08:13So that happens already
08:14That has been happening all through
08:16Absolutely
08:16You look at the 1980s ka rules
08:19The 1990s ka rules
08:20So what is the furor all about, Freethi?
08:22Then is this actually
08:24Notanki before elections?
08:27You know, Gaurav
08:28What your opening remarks were
08:29Right?
08:30That bogus voting
08:32Allegedly has been happening
08:33By politicians
08:34What you said
08:35No, to stop bogus
08:37Bogus voting
08:38Which many politicians
08:40Allege have been happening
08:41By burka-clad women
08:42And women in ghungats
08:43Was the word ghungat
08:45Mentioned by the election commission?
08:47Absolutely not
08:48See, when you are sitting
08:49In newsrooms
08:50It's very benign
08:51That the election commission
08:52Has made what seems to be
08:54Perfect protocol in SOP
08:55That why shouldn't a woman
08:57Whose, you know
08:59Whose face is covered
09:01Veiled
09:01Not be allowed
09:03Or should not be checked
09:05Verified
09:05Right?
09:06It sounds
09:06This is
09:07You know
09:07Should be definitely
09:08I would want
09:09Every person
09:10Who is going into vote
09:11Be verified
09:12Why should
09:13Muslim women
09:14Just because
09:15They are wearing a burka
09:16Not go through
09:17That same process
09:18So it sounds very benign
09:19It sounds
09:19It's going by the SOP
09:21And it's going by the rules
09:22Right?
09:22But look at it now
09:24In a broader context
09:25Because A
09:25Also on a subtext to it
09:27Did the election commission
09:28Mentioned
09:29Because like in states of
09:30Rajasthan
09:32Like Rajasthan
09:32Haryana
09:33There are lots of women
09:34In Bihar also
09:35Who might not cover
09:36Their faces
09:37Because they are Muslims
09:38But wear the Gungad
09:39And cover their faces
09:40Okay
09:40Was that also mentioned
09:41That wasn't mentioned
09:42So therefore
09:43The political interpretation
09:45Of this is clearly
09:46Dog whistling
09:46Right?
09:47Oh you see this as dog whistling
09:48I don't see
09:49No no no
09:49One second
09:50Hear me out
09:50I don't see the EC's dog whistling
09:52What is it happening
09:53In the backdrop of an SIR
09:54Where
09:55What was the biggest fear
09:56That there will be disenfranchisement
09:57Of a lot of Muslim votes
09:59But wasn't that fear
10:01Mongering again
10:02Hear me out
10:02Go all the way to 2024
10:04Where you had West UP
10:06Where you had East
10:07Portions of East UP
10:08Where multiple women
10:10Came out with the same charge
10:11That we were not allowed
10:12To vote
10:12Lot of these women
10:14Come from not as
10:15Privileged backgrounds
10:16Like us
10:17Right?
10:18They are not as educated
10:19Like most of us
10:20Okay
10:20So this somewhere down the line
10:22Also gets in a barrier
10:23Where they won't even come out
10:24Which is a deterrent to vote
10:26Which goes against
10:26What the EC is supposed to do
10:28All the time
10:29But by the way
10:29In principle
10:30Are we saying
10:31Unless
10:31If Muslim women
10:33Are asked to show
10:33Their identity cards
10:34Allow me to finish
10:35Asked to show their face
10:36They feel scared
10:37They will not vote
10:37No
10:37Because there is context to it
10:40Gaurav
10:40It happened
10:41No
10:41There are multiple women
10:42Who came out in Sambal
10:43Who came out in Western UP
10:44And said that we were not allowed
10:46To vote
10:47Right?
10:47There were multiple women
10:48Who came out in Eastern UP
10:49In 2024
10:50That we were not allowed to vote
10:51Under the garb of identification
10:52Let me just finish
10:53Okay
10:53Right?
10:54Now in midst of all of this
10:55Now you have
10:56Fears of disenfranchisement
10:58Where one Muslim community
10:59Is concerned
10:59You have fear of disenfranchisement
11:02At the back of 2024 elections
11:04Then
11:05You are not even mentioning
11:06Women who wear the Gungat
11:07At all
11:08So therefore
11:09In this context
11:10Somewhere down the line
11:11It is going to be viewed
11:13As possible
11:13Whistling
11:14Why?
11:15Because
11:15Protocol
11:16As per protocol
11:18It is already being followed
11:19All these women
11:20Who go into a booth
11:22Did the EC need to
11:23Verbalize something
11:24Which was already happening?
11:26There is a question
11:26That has been asked
11:27There is a question
11:28That has been asked
11:29There is a fear
11:29That has been raised
11:30By a political leader
11:31In the past
11:31But Siddharth
11:32You wanted to come in
11:33Which political leader?
11:34You wanted to come in
11:34Bihar BJP chief
11:36Raised this issue
11:36Exactly
11:36So therefore
11:37So that's wrong with some politics
11:41And our constitutional body
11:43Is fear
11:44Is this fear
11:44It's all right
11:44For political parties
11:46To raise these concerns
11:47Because
11:47Because that's part
11:49Of democratic exercise
11:50In which you level charges
11:52Their counter charges
11:53That's all right
11:53That's the duty
11:54Or responsibility
11:55Of political party
11:56They will create that narrative
11:57Sure
11:58But what about
11:59The constitutional body
12:00Called election commission
12:01No but
12:01Are we not saying
12:03That if a Muslim
12:04Mahila
12:05Identity card
12:06Then they say
12:06Oh I'm scared
12:07I don't want to vote
12:08But what is
12:08Muslim Mahila
12:09That is the point
12:10But God
12:11Mahila
12:11Only
12:12Quality
12:12So let's stick
12:17To the legal facts
12:18In 2006
12:20The Madras High Court
12:21Gave a judgment
12:22Which was subsequently
12:23Referenced
12:24Upheld
12:25And further elaborated
12:26By a 2010
12:27Judgment
12:29Of the Supreme Court
12:30That made it clear
12:33That
12:33Burka
12:34Has to be checked
12:36And verified
12:37As far as
12:37Identity is concerned
12:38Now let's step
12:40Now let's step back
12:40For a moment
12:41The voter ID card
12:43Also has a photograph
12:44Even that has been
12:46Debated and ruled upon
12:47That unless you provide
12:49Your photograph
12:50Regardless of your
12:51Religion
12:52Or gender
12:53You cannot be issued
12:55A voter EPIC
12:56The card
12:57Now let's come
12:59To the point
13:00Between Ghoongat
13:01And Burka
13:02The Court
13:04Of India
13:05The Supreme Court
13:05Of India
13:06Has upheld
13:07The Burka
13:07As part of
13:08Essential
13:09Religious practice
13:11The courts
13:12The courts have
13:12Repeatedly clarified
13:13And elaborated
13:14The Ghoongat
13:15Is not considered
13:17As a mandated
13:18Statutory requirement
13:20Of Hindu faith
13:21Or practice
13:21It is a tradition
13:23Which is prevalent
13:24In communities
13:25But it is not
13:26Held at the same
13:28Power of religious
13:29Belief
13:29That the court
13:30Has held the Burka
13:31To be
13:32Therefore
13:33It is very clear
13:34That there cannot
13:35Be any argument
13:37Against the election
13:38Commission's move
13:39To buttress this
13:40Now we can
13:41Quibble about
13:42The language
13:42Timing the politics
13:43The law of the land
13:45Including election
13:47Commission
13:47Rules
13:48Guidelines
13:49And norms
13:49And the Supreme Court
13:51Have made it clear
13:52Let me just finish
13:53That point
13:53That if you want
13:56To vote
13:57Which is
13:58A statutory right
14:00It is not
14:00A fundamental right
14:02Then you have
14:03To both provide
14:04Your photograph
14:05In your eye card
14:06And you have
14:07To show your face
14:08But the
14:09Parabid is
14:10Show your face
14:10About the timing
14:13And it is also
14:14About the fact
14:14That you are
14:15Singling out
14:15The community
14:16And that
14:16There are
14:17Other communities
14:18Who follow
14:19Parda
14:19No I am going
14:19To ask
14:20That is your
14:21Supposition
14:22That's not
14:22Supposition
14:24I come from Kashmir
14:26I come from Kashmir
14:27And that law
14:30Has been
14:30Upped
14:30Thankfully
14:31It took us
14:32Three decades
14:33To get elections
14:34If we are going
14:34To get into
14:35Where we come
14:35From
14:35I come from
14:36Haryana
14:36Where 80%
14:37Of the women
14:37Are in
14:38Parda
14:39Now they are
14:39Not Muslims
14:40There are
14:41Jaat women
14:41There are
14:42Hindu women
14:43In Parda
14:43It might not
14:44Have been
14:44Recognized
14:45As a right
14:45Might not
14:46Have been
14:46Recognized
14:47As a right
14:47Of part
14:48Of their
14:48Religion
14:49To do so
14:49But
14:50A lot of
14:51Them
14:51Do they object
14:54Show me
14:55A case
14:55Of objection
14:56Show me
14:58A case
15:00Filed
15:01By a
15:01Hungat
15:02Or a
15:02Parda
15:03Hindu
15:03Woman
15:04You like
15:04To complete
15:05Your point
15:05Without any
15:06Interjection
15:06But you will
15:07Turn around
15:07And interrupt
15:08Somebody who is
15:08Trying to
15:08Make the same
15:09Okay
15:10One by one
15:10Allow me
15:11To moderate
15:11Allow me
15:14To come in
15:15So the fact
15:15Is a lot
15:16Of women
15:16Do vote
15:17In Haryana
15:18In Rajasthan
15:20Lots of
15:20Parts of
15:21Madhya Pradesh
15:21Where they
15:22Are in
15:22Gungat
15:23Siddharth
15:23And they
15:24Are not
15:24Asked to
15:25Lift their
15:25Will
15:26Or to
15:27See who is
15:27There
15:27A lot
15:28Of times
15:28It happens
15:29A lot
15:29Of times
15:30It happens
15:30It's easy
15:30To sit
15:31I have to bring
15:31In Gita
15:31There is so much
15:34To rebut
15:35No no no
15:36I was making
15:39The exact same
15:40Point
15:40You are conflating
15:41Your perceptions
15:43Versus fact
15:44And law
15:44The Gungat
15:46Now Parda
15:47Is not equated
15:48With a
15:48Burka
15:49In law
15:49It is
15:50Different
15:50I mean
15:51We shouldn't
15:51Even be
15:52Talking about
15:52The opacity
15:53Of the veil
15:54The cloth
15:55What is
15:55Defined
15:55I mean
15:56What are we
15:56Saying
15:56We can't
15:57Conflate
15:57These two
15:58Things
15:58Practice
15:59Of a
16:00Gungat
16:00Are we
16:01Saying that
16:02There has
16:02Been a
16:02Court case
16:03Where a
16:03Gungat
16:03Woman
16:04Has said
16:04Sorry
16:05I will
16:05Not lift
16:06The
16:06Gungat
16:06To
16:06Vote
16:07Who
16:08Has
16:08Filed
16:08These
16:09Cases
16:09Because
16:09They have
16:11Not been
16:12Stopped
16:13Because
16:13They have
16:13Not been
16:14Stopped
16:14Can I
16:15Can I
16:15Can I
16:16Just intervene
16:16Can I
16:17Intervene
16:17For one
16:18Instance
16:19And just
16:19For a
16:20Moment
16:20Because
16:20Why do
16:21Some of
16:21These issues
16:22Come up
16:22February
16:232022
16:24Up elections
16:26Rampur
16:26Burkha
16:27May
16:27Farsi
16:28Vote
16:28Dal
16:28Ne
16:28Ma
16:29Beti
16:29Giravtar
16:30There have
16:30Been
16:31Instances
16:31Like
16:31This
16:32A few
16:33Instances
16:33Here
16:34A few
16:34Instances
16:34There
16:35Allegations
16:35Have
16:36Been
16:36Made
16:36And I
16:36Have
16:36A
16:36Whole
16:37List
16:37Of
16:37Allegations
16:38When
16:39You have
16:39That
16:40List
16:40Can you
16:40Also
16:40Look at
16:41The fact
16:41That
16:42There have
16:42Been
16:42Cases
16:43Where
16:44Women
16:44Are
16:44Being
16:45Asked
16:45To
16:45Lift
16:45Their
16:46Veil
16:46And
16:46Identify
16:46Themselves
16:47Outside
16:47Of
16:54So
16:56Nobody
16:56Is
16:56Saying
16:56Don't
16:57Follow
16:57The
16:57Law
16:57The
16:58Problem
16:58That
17:00Comes
17:01In
17:01Is
17:01When
17:01You
17:01Create
17:02This
17:02Entire
17:02Perception
17:03That
17:04Fake
17:05Voters
17:06Are
17:06Coming
17:06From
17:06A
17:06One
17:07Community
17:07And
17:07That
17:08Somebody
17:09Has
17:09The
17:09Right
17:10To
17:10Check
17:10Who
17:11Has
17:11The
17:11Right
17:11To
17:12Check
17:12The
17:12Rule
17:13Is
17:13Very
17:13Clear
17:13Anganwadi
17:14Workers
17:15Appointed
17:16By
17:16Election
17:16Commission
17:17Only
17:17Election
17:18Commission
17:18They
17:18Have
17:19Put
17:21A
17:21System
17:21In
17:21Place
17:22Why
17:22Point
17:22Elections
17:23At
17:23The
17:23Election
17:23Commission
17:24Saying
17:24That
17:24They
17:24Are
17:24Siding
17:25A
17:25Certain
17:25Party
17:26The
17:26Timing
17:26Is
17:27Questionable
17:27The
17:27Timing
17:28Is
17:28Questionable
17:28Even
17:30With
17:31The
17:31Opposition
17:32Is
17:33Where
17:33To
17:33Speak
17:33Against
17:34Women
17:34In
17:34Ghoonghat
17:34But
17:35Again
17:35The
17:35Whole
17:36Point
17:36Is
17:36That
17:36Practice
17:37Is
17:37Not
17:38Entailed
17:38For
17:38Women
17:38In
17:38Ghoonghat
17:39For
17:39Women
17:40In
17:40Hijab
17:41It
17:41Is
17:41Clear
17:41That
17:42They
17:42Say
17:42They
17:42Don't
17:43Want
17:43To
17:43Show
17:43Their
17:43Face
17:44That
17:53Siddharth
17:59Siddharth
17:59Siddharth
17:59Siddharth
17:59Siddharth
17:59There
17:59Are
17:59Different
18:00Forms
18:00Of
18:00Head
18:01Dress
18:01Which
18:01Are
18:02Part
18:02Of
18:02Islamic
18:03Religious
18:04And
18:04Cultural
18:05Practice
18:05You
18:06Should
18:06Not
18:06Mix
18:06Them
18:06Up
18:07There
18:07Are
18:07Different
18:08Grades
18:08And
18:09You
18:09Know
18:09Let's
18:10Let's
18:10Not
18:10Just
18:10Bring
18:11It
18:11All
18:11Together
18:11Into
18:12Calling
18:12Everything
18:12A
18:13Burka
18:13Okay
18:13And
18:14I
18:15Just
18:16One
18:19By
18:19One
18:19By
18:20One
18:20So
18:20Okay
18:21First
18:21Gita
18:21Gita
18:22Gita
18:23Just
18:23Gita
18:23Complete
18:24Point
18:24I
18:25Am
18:25Just
18:25Saying
18:25Burka
18:26Is
18:26Burka
18:26But
18:27There
18:27Are
18:27Other
18:27Pardas
18:28That
18:28And
18:29Pardas
18:29Systems
18:29That
18:30Is
18:30Practiced
18:30Across
18:31India
18:31And
18:32Where
18:32You
18:32Don't
18:33See
18:33Them
18:33Actually
18:34Questioning
18:34That
18:34Pardas
18:35System
18:35And
18:35It
18:36Happened
18:36In
18:36Every
18:36Debate
18:37That
18:37We
18:37Have
18:37Seen
18:37Through
18:38Years
18:38Now
18:39Burka
18:40System
18:40Is
18:41Actually
18:41Singled
18:42Out
18:43Let's
18:46Bring
18:46In
18:47France
18:47And
18:49Proving
18:50Your
18:51Identity
18:51You
18:52Can
18:52Talk
18:53About
18:53What
18:53The
18:53Opposition
18:54Should
18:54Bring
18:54Or
18:55Not
18:55Opposition
18:58Or
18:58What
18:58The
18:58Government
18:59We
18:59Are
19:00Talking
19:00About
19:00Any
19:01Question
19:01And
19:02Constitution
19:03Body
19:04And
19:04Constitution
19:05Body
19:05And
19:06We
19:06As
19:06Journalists
19:08Over
19:08Here
19:08Discussing
19:09That
19:09Can
19:10The
19:10Opposition
19:10Do
19:11What
19:11They
19:11Want
19:11Or
19:11If
19:12They
19:12Are
19:12Doing
19:12Their
19:13Job
19:13It
19:13Not
19:14My
19:14Problem
19:14I
19:15Have
19:15A
19:15Question
19:15How
19:16Does
19:16How
19:17Does
19:17Election
19:18Officer
19:19Verify
19:20That
19:25Who
19:25Is
19:26Qualified
19:27To
19:27Vote
19:27With
19:27A
19:28Voter
19:28Eye
19:28Card
19:28What
19:29Is
19:29The
19:29Process
19:30To
19:30Do
19:30That
19:30There
19:30Are
19:30Four
19:31Checks
19:31Right
19:31Before
19:32You
19:32Enter
19:32Four
19:33Checks
19:33If
19:34Burka
19:36Is
19:37Lifted
19:37Outside
19:38That
19:38But
19:38If
19:39It
19:39Is
19:39Lifted
19:39Inside
19:40What
19:40Are
19:41You
19:42Saying
19:42What
19:43Are
19:43You
19:44Saying
19:45One
19:45By
19:45One
19:46By
19:46One
19:47Excuse
19:47Me
19:55What
19:55Are
19:55Those
19:56Checks
19:56What
19:56Are
19:57Those
19:58Checks
19:59Are
20:00Those
20:01Checks
20:02Are
20:03Those
20:03Checks
20:03Okay
20:03Preeti
20:04Is
20:04Coming
20:05In
20:05On
20:05The
20:05Fact
20:06If
20:06You
20:06Lift
20:06It
20:07On
20:07The
20:07Roadside
20:07Is
20:07That
20:07Okay
20:08Then
20:09What
20:09Is
20:09The
20:09Checks
20:10Explain
20:10The
20:11Checks
20:11Tell
20:11Me
20:12The
20:13Checks
20:13What
20:14I
20:14Want
20:15It
20:15Inside
20:16But
20:16It
20:16Inside
20:17Not
20:17On
20:17The
20:17Roadside
20:18First
20:19Is
20:20Right
20:20Third
20:20Is
20:21Not
20:21Right
20:21Okay
20:22Yes
20:25Only
20:28Preeti
20:28Only
20:29Preeti
20:29Only
20:30Preeti
20:32Only
20:33Preeti
20:33Preeti
20:34Go On
20:34What
20:34The
20:34Facts
20:35Are
20:35Siddharth
20:35One
20:35Second
20:35Calm
20:36Down
20:36Siddharth
20:36Number
20:36One
20:37And
20:37I'll
20:37Tell
20:37You
20:37What
20:37The
20:37Facts
20:37Are
20:38What
20:38Is
20:38There
20:38To
20:38Get
20:39Right
20:39Already
20:40There
20:40Were
20:40SOPs
20:40In
20:41Place
20:41Which
20:41Were
20:41Being
20:41Followed
20:42Number
20:42One
20:42Number
20:43Two
20:43For
20:43The
20:43Election
20:43Commission
20:44To
20:44Right
20:44Now
20:44When
20:45We
20:45Speak
20:45I'm
20:45Not
20:45Saying
20:46The
20:46Election
20:46Commission
20:46Is
20:47Dog
20:47Whistling
20:47But
20:47It
20:47Sounding
20:48Like
20:48Dog
20:48Whistling
20:49So
20:50You're
20:50Saying
20:50It's
20:50The
20:51New
20:51SOP
20:51No
20:51I'm
20:52You
20:53Tell
20:53Me
20:53Is
20:54It
20:54New
20:54What
20:54Was
20:54The
20:54Need
20:55Of
20:56The
20:57Election
20:57Commission
20:57To
20:58Come
20:58Out
20:58And
20:59Say
20:59Because
21:00Muslim
21:00Voters
21:01Where
21:01Women
21:01In
21:02Burkaz
21:02Are
21:02Concerned
21:02They
21:03Will
21:03Be
21:03Checked
21:03By
21:03Aangan
21:03Wadi
21:04When
21:04It
21:04Was
21:06Already
21:07Being
21:07Followed
21:07Is
21:08It
21:08A
21:08New
21:08SOP
21:08Or
21:09Old
21:09SoP
21:09What
21:09Was
21:10The
21:10Need
21:10No
21:11One
21:11Second
21:11What
21:12Was
21:12The
21:12Need
21:12I
21:12Rest
21:12My
21:13Case
21:13Always
21:14Reterated
21:14Why
21:15Reiterate
21:17It's
21:17Being
21:17Reterated
21:18What
21:18Was
21:18The
21:19Need
21:19For
21:19SIR
21:19Okay
21:20Ask
21:20That
21:21Question
21:21Valid
21:21Question
21:22Now
21:22Let
21:22We
21:22Take
21:22It
21:23Forward
21:23But
21:23No
21:23New
21:24Law
21:24Has
21:24Been
21:24Created
21:25No
21:25New
21:25Procedure
21:26Has
21:26Been
21:26Created
21:27Three
21:27Checks
21:28Are
21:39What
21:40Is
21:41Only
21:43Checked
21:43Inside
21:44Yes
21:45So
21:45If
21:47There
21:48Is
21:48Privacy
21:48Then
21:49What
21:49Is
21:49The
21:49Problem
21:49Why
21:49We
21:50Support
21:50You
21:50There
21:51You
21:51Are
21:51Absolutely
21:51Right
21:52And
21:53The
21:53One
21:54Second
21:54I
21:55Want
21:55To
21:56Say
21:56This
21:56Is
21:59Creating
21:59A
21:59Question
22:00Why
22:01This
22:02Kind
22:02Of
22:02Reiteration
22:03Is
22:09Separately
22:10But
22:10I
22:10Am
22:10Just
22:11Saying
22:11Trust
22:11The
22:11Judiciary
22:12Trust
22:12The
22:12Election
22:13Body
22:13To
22:13Say
22:13That
22:14They
22:14Have
22:16A
22:16Set
22:16Of
22:16Guidelines
22:17To
22:18Ensure
22:18That
22:19When
22:19These
22:19Women
22:20Under
22:20The
22:20Burkas
22:21Are
22:21Checked
22:22When
22:22Their
22:22Identification
22:23Is
22:23Checked
22:24It
22:24Is
22:24Done
22:25Keeping
22:25In
22:25Mind
22:26Religious
22:26Sensitivity
22:27And
22:28That
22:28Is
22:28A
22:28Term
22:29That
22:29Has
22:29Been
22:29Quoted
22:29Again
22:30And
22:30Again
22:30In
22:31The
22:31Madras
22:31High
22:31Court
22:32Verdict
22:32That
22:32Sir
22:32Mentioned
22:33In
22:33What
22:33The
22:34Supreme
22:34Court
22:34Said
22:34In
22:352010
22:35And
22:36In
22:36What
22:36The
22:36Poll
22:36Body
22:37Is
22:37Saying
22:37Now
22:37You
22:38Could
22:38Have
22:38A
22:38Problem
22:39With
22:39Why
22:39Come
22:39Out
22:40With
22:40It
22:40Separately
22:40That
22:41Is
22:41Separately
22:41That
22:42We
22:42Don't
22:43Let
22:43Let
22:43Me
22:44One
22:44More
22:44Point
22:45You
22:47Can
22:48Say
22:48Why
22:49This
22:49Happens
22:50There
22:50Are
22:51No
22:51Plumbing
22:51Out
22:52We
22:52Don't
22:53As
22:53The
22:54S.O.P.
22:54Here
22:54Outside
22:55My
22:56Problem
22:56Is
22:56With
22:56What
22:56Preeti
22:57Pointed
22:57Out
22:57That
22:58There
22:58Are
22:58Women
22:59Voters
23:00Being
23:00Turned
23:00Back
23:01By
23:02Polling
23:03Agents
23:03My
23:04Problem
23:04Is
23:05That
23:05When
23:05There
23:06Is
23:06A
23:06Rule
23:06Clearly
23:07To
23:07Say
23:07That
23:07Decency
23:08And
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23:09Must
23:10Be
23:10Maintained
23:10That
23:11A
23:11Calling
23:12Officer
23:12Must
23:13Be
23:13There
23:13Why
23:14Is
23:14It
23:14That
23:14We
23:14Are
23:14Creating
23:15This
23:15Kind
23:16Of
23:16Dramatic
23:17Scenes
23:18By
23:18Political
23:19Leaders
23:19Saying
23:19Abhi
23:20Burka
23:20Uthake
23:20Dikhhao
23:21Then
23:21Action
23:22It
23:22To
23:22Be
23:22Taken
23:22Against
23:23Those
23:23Political
23:24Leaders
23:24And
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23:25This
23:26Entire
23:26Process
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23:27Bring
23:27The
23:27Process
23:28In
23:28Question
23:28Because
23:29I
23:29Also
23:30Want
23:30To
23:30Respond
23:32To
23:32What
23:32Suyesha
23:33Said
23:33That
23:33Is
23:34This
23:34Selective
23:35Outrage
23:36Because
23:36You
23:37Know
23:37Like
23:37You
23:37Mentioned
23:37You
23:38Been
23:38On
23:38Hajj
23:38There
23:39Are
23:39You
23:39Know
23:39Muslim
23:40Women
23:40Have
23:41No
23:41Problem
23:41Lifting
23:41Their
23:42Whale
23:42Getting
23:43A
23:43Picture
23:43Clicked
23:43For
23:44A
23:44Passport
23:44For
23:45A
23:45Visa
23:45For
23:45Immigration
23:46Why
23:47Should
23:47There
23:47Be
23:47A
23:47Problem
23:48At
23:48The
23:48Polling
23:49Booth
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23:50Been
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23:51Case
23:51In
23:51Which
23:51A
23:52Woman
23:52Wearing
23:53A
23:53Burka
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23:54A
23:54Parda
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23:55Denied
23:56Lifting
23:57Whale
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23:59Said
23:59That
23:59I
23:59Will
23:59Not
24:00Go
24:00Through
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24:00Process
24:00Of
24:00Identification
24:01Well
24:01The
24:01Lawyers
24:02In
24:02Courts
24:03Have
24:03Many
24:03Times
24:03It's
24:04Against
24:05Our
24:05Fructors
24:05Has
24:06There
24:06Been
24:06A
24:06Case
24:06Of
24:07This
24:07Nature
24:07We
24:09Do
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24:09Know
24:09Of
24:09Any
24:10Such
24:10Case
24:10If
24:11The
24:11Election
24:12Commission
24:12Has
24:13Data
24:13To
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24:14It
24:14They
24:14Should
24:14Actually
24:14Put
24:15That
24:15Out
24:15Rather
24:16Than
24:16Indulge
24:17In
24:17A
24:18SOP
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24:18This
24:19Nature
24:19We
24:20Are
24:20Looking
24:20At
24:21A
24:21State
24:21Where
24:21Women
24:22Out
24:22Number
24:23Men
24:23In
24:24Terms
24:24Of
24:25Vote
24:2550
24:26Percent
24:30That's
24:31The
24:31Huge
24:31Number
24:31That
24:32We
24:32Are
24:32Looking
24:32At
24:32And
24:33Then
24:33You
24:33Are
24:33Talking
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24:36Vail
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24:37Or
24:37You
24:38Know
24:38In
24:39Burka
24:39Do
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24:40Buy
24:40The
24:40Argument
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24:41Something
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24:43Electoral
24:43Process
24:43They
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24:44Come
24:44Out
24:44And
24:44Vote
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24:45Won't
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24:46With
24:46That
24:46Why
24:46Because
24:47There
24:47Would
24:47Be
24:47A
24:47General
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24:49This
24:49Process
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24:51They
25:00One
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25:02Moment
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25:02You
25:02Have
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25:03Lata
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25:04Court
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25:13The
25:13Back
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25:14Elections
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25:18I'm
25:18Not
25:18Wrong
25:18And
25:19I
25:19Think
25:19I
25:19Am
25:19Correct
25:19Three
25:20Different
25:20PIL
25:21Which
25:21These
25:22Women
25:22Have
25:22Claimed
25:22That
25:22They
25:23Were
25:23Not
25:23Allowed
25:23To
25:23Cast
25:24Their
25:24Vote
25:24Right
25:25Now
25:25Let
25:25Me
25:25Come
25:26Back
25:26To
25:26Where
25:26I
25:27Began
25:27See
25:27When
25:28You
25:28Hear
25:28When
25:29You're
25:29Sitting
25:29In
25:29Plush
25:30Studios
25:31Where
25:32You're
25:32Sitting
25:32Outside
25:32It
25:33Seems
25:33Completely
25:33Benign
25:34When
25:34You
25:34Hear
25:34The
25:35Election
25:35Commission
25:35Say
25:36For
25:36What
25:36He
25:36Is
25:36Siddharth
25:37Suwesha
25:38Both
25:38Talk
25:38About
25:39The
25:39Letter
25:39In
25:39Law
25:39There
25:40Are
25:40So
25:40Many
25:40Things
25:40That
25:40Have
25:41Been
25:41Laid
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25:41The
25:41Letter
25:41Of
25:42Law
25:42Do
25:42We
25:42Really
25:42Follow
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25:43On
25:43Ground
25:43Or
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25:44We
25:44See
25:44It
25:44Happen
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25:45It
25:45Doesn't
25:46Work
25:46Like
25:46That
25:46So
25:47When
25:47You
25:47Juxtapose
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25:48The
25:48Election
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25:49Said
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25:50The
25:50Backdrop
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25:55Like
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25:55Certain
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25:57Election
25:57Commission
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25:58Backdrop
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25:59SIR
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26:012024
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26:06Trust
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26:07There
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26:09There
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26:11Oh
26:11Your
26:12Vote
26:12Will
26:13Your
26:13Passport
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26:15Mongering
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26:16Is
26:17Political
26:17Fear
26:18Mongering
26:18Like
26:19Madhavi
26:20Lata
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26:21On
26:21The
26:21Street
26:22In
26:22Hyderabad
26:23During
26:23The
26:23Election
26:24And
26:24All
26:25Women
26:25Action
26:26Was
26:26Taken
26:27Again
26:27Sir
26:28What
26:28Action
26:29Was
26:29Taken
26:29What
26:30Whatever
26:32Legal
26:32Action
26:33Follows
26:33Hold
26:34On
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26:37There
26:37Is
26:37Something
26:37Wrong
26:38You
26:38Take
26:38Action
26:39Against
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26:39But
26:39Because
26:40Somebody
26:40Did
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26:41This
26:42Should
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26:42Happen
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26:44This
26:46Not
26:47A
26:47Victim
26:47Card
26:48There
26:49Is
26:51No
26:51Victim
26:54Card
26:54Here
26:54The
26:55Question
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26:55Muslim
26:55Women
26:56Vote
26:56In
26:56India
26:57If
26:57You
26:57Can
26:58Do
26:58I
26:59Don't
26:59Know
27:00I
27:00Don't
27:01Know
27:02Identification
27:03Process
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27:04Verification
27:05Process
27:05Through
27:05This
27:06Is
27:06Part
27:06Be
27:07Jai
27:07And
27:07Let
27:08We
27:09Circle
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27:10To
27:10A
27:10Question
27:10Which
27:11We
27:11Raised
27:11In
27:11The
27:11Beginning
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27:12Like
27:12Even
27:13Siddharth
27:13Pointed
27:13Out
27:13And
27:13Correctly
27:14So
27:14That
27:14The
27:14Supreme
27:15Court
27:15Recognizes
27:15The
27:16Burka
27:16As
27:16A
27:16Part
27:16Of
27:16Following
27:17A
27:17Religion
27:17It
27:18Doesn't
27:18The
27:18Ghungat
27:18But
27:19If
27:19Tomorrow
27:19I
27:20Come
27:20Like
27:20We
27:20All
27:20Talking
27:20About
27:21The
27:21States
27:21That
27:21We
27:21Come
27:21From
27:22Siddharth
27:22Speaks
27:22About
27:23Coming
27:23From
27:23Jammu
27:23And
27:23Kashmir
27:24I
27:24Come
27:25From
27:25Haryana
27:26Right
27:2660%
27:27Of
27:27The
27:27Women
27:27In
27:28Rural
27:28Haryana
27:28Will
27:29Not
27:29Raise
27:29Their
27:30Will
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27:31Not
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27:31Their
27:32Will
27:32Do
27:32We
27:32Have
27:33The
27:33Election
27:34Commission
27:34Right
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27:35Going
27:35Into
27:35An
27:35Election
27:35Seem
27:36To
27:36Suggest
27:36That
27:37We
27:37Bring
27:37In
27:37Anganwadi
27:38Workers
27:38To
27:39Check
27:39These
27:40Women
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27:40Are
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27:41Haryana
27:41Because
27:42Why
27:42I
27:43Say
27:43I
27:43Am
27:43Not
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27:44The
27:44Supreme
27:44Court
27:44Is
27:44Dog
27:45Whistling
27:45Why
27:45I
27:45Say
27:46It
27:46Interpreted
27:46As
27:47That
27:47Is
27:48Because
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27:48That
27:48You
27:49Will
27:49Never
27:49Have
27:49The
27:49Election
27:50Commissioner
27:50Say
27:51We
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27:51Bring
27:52An
27:52Anganwadi
27:52Worker
27:53To
27:53Check
27:53The
27:54Women
27:54From
27:54Haryana
27:55We
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27:55Them
27:56Their
27:57Privacy
27:57That
27:58Will
27:58Not
27:58Be
27:58Said
27:58In
27:59Context
27:59Because
27:59You
27:59Stereotype
28:00Then
28:01You
28:01Stereotype
28:02These
28:02Women
28:02In
28:02Burkas
28:03Who
28:03Coming
28:03In
28:04Where
28:04You
28:04Stereotype
28:05Them
28:05That
28:05They
28:05May
28:05Be
28:06Trying
28:06To
28:06Come
28:06In
28:06And
28:07Cast
28:07Bogus
28:07And
28:08Maybe
28:09SOPs
28:09Are
28:09Followed
28:10In
28:10Both
28:10States
28:11There
28:11Has
28:13Been
28:13Checks
28:14And
28:14Valids
28:14There
28:15Have
28:15Been
28:15Identification
28:16Processes
28:17There
28:17Have
28:18Been
28:18Processes
28:18Of
28:18Verification
28:19Why
28:20Bring
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28:21It
28:21Has
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28:24Be
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28:24Each
28:24Time
28:25It
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28:28Not
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28:31It
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28:32State
28:33It
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28:34Issue
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28:36That
28:36Issue
28:36Is
28:37Addressed
28:37No
28:37But
28:37I
28:38Don't
28:38I
28:38Am
28:38Just
28:39Wondering
28:39That
28:39You
28:39Know
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28:40That
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28:45A
28:46Democracy
28:46And
28:47We
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28:51Everyone
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28:52Card
28:52Vote
28:53Let
28:54Everyone
28:54Follow
28:55The
28:55Law
28:55Of
28:55The
28:55Land
28:55Even
28:57The
28:57Supreme
28:57Court
28:57Free
28:57And
28:58Fair
28:58Elections
28:58Happened
28:59Across
28:59The
28:59Country
29:00It
29:00Happened
29:01In
29:01Bihar
29:01As
29:032020
29:03Free
29:03And
29:04Fair
29:04Election
29:04Happened
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29:05The
29:05Country
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29:06Bihar
29:08Assembly
29:08It
29:08Pointed
29:08Out
29:08350
29:09Women
29:09They
29:10Weren't
29:10All
29:10To
29:10Vote
29:11It
29:11It's
29:11A
29:12TIL
29:122020
29:13Bihar
29:142020
29:15Bihar
29:16No
29:16Such
29:17SOP
29:182015
29:19Bihar
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29:20Such
29:20SOP
29:212010
29:21Bihar
29:22No
29:22Such
29:23SOP
29:23Show
29:24Me
29:25Those
29:25SOPs
29:26And
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29:26Say
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29:27So
29:27It's
29:27An
29:27SOP
29:28Which
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29:29Are
29:29You
29:29Saying
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29:30Bihar
29:31Elections
29:31So
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29:32Should
29:32Not
29:32Have
29:32SOP
29:33You
29:33Can
29:34Have
29:34It
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29:34Other
29:34Parts
29:35Of
29:35The
29:35Country
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29:36Seriously
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29:41That
29:41SOP
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29:44The
29:45SOP
29:47Okay
29:47Siddharth
29:48Siddharth
29:48Siddharth
29:49Siddharth
29:49Five
29:50Point
29:51Fingers
29:51Against
29:52Who
29:53Against
29:54The
29:54Election
29:54Commission
29:55Siddharth
29:56Siddharth
29:56Siddharth
29:57Siddharth
29:58On
29:58A
29:59Lighter
29:59Note
30:00On
30:00A
30:01Lighter
30:01Every
30:02Time
30:02A
30:02Cricket
30:03Match
30:03Is
30:03Played
30:04A
30:04Fresh
30:04One
30:05The
30:05Pitch
30:05Is
30:05Set
30:06Again
30:06Okay
30:07So
30:08Political
30:09Pitch
30:09Which
30:11Should
30:14Not
30:14Be
30:14The
30:15Pitch
30:15On
30:15Which
30:15The
30:15Election
30:16Commission
30:16Which
30:16Is
30:16A
30:16Constitution
30:17Body
30:17Should
30:17Play
30:18The
30:18Election
30:18Is
30:20The
30:20Election
30:20Commission
30:21Is
30:21The
30:22Election
30:22Commission
30:25Actually
30:25The
30:26Third
30:26Empire
30:26And
30:27The
30:27Empire
30:27In
30:28This
30:28Pitch
30:28Who
30:29Is
30:29Very
30:29Clearly
30:29Saying
30:30It's
30:30The
30:30Soul
30:30Empire
30:31It's
30:31You
30:31That's
30:32That's
30:32The
30:32Nature
30:32Of
30:33Our
30:33Constitution
30:33But I want to read, you know, just bring out what the Supreme Court had said in 2010.
30:38The bench actually remarked, if you have such strong religious sentiments that do not want
30:41to be seen by members of public, then do not go out and vote.
30:45If you're coming out to vote, if you're coming out to vote, then also the court has, in that
30:502010 order, said that there should be some sort of SOP.
30:56And that SOP is here.
30:57It is.
30:58It is.
30:58You know, it is like, chit be merry, pat be merry.
31:01Is that the best way to go?
31:03But we leave it for you to decide in our democratic newsroom, that decision.
31:08If you're sitting here, Kesha, I'd ask you to say that there are women who have not been
31:09allowed to vote, then that's a separate point.
31:11We are married women, there is a section.
31:13Okay.
31:14Time out on this one.
31:15Thank you very much.
31:16There is a very interesting debate coming up on the other side of a quick break.
31:21And that is Gaza.
31:23It's two years of that Hamas terror attack on Israel.
31:29Will there be peace?
31:30And is Trump's plan feasible?
31:32That debate and lots more coming up.
31:33Stay with us on India.
31:36It's been two years exactly this time.
31:39The 7th of October in 2023, you had Hamas terrorists who attacked Israel from land, sea
31:46and air and massacred 1,200 innocent people, abducted more than 250.
31:52For the past two years, Israel has been attempting to bring back as many of those 250 hostages as possible.
32:00We are told 48 are still in the custody of Hamas, perhaps only 20 still alive.
32:07But the retaliatory action that's been taken by Israel, that's left over 67,000 people, unfortunately dead.
32:17More than half women and children.
32:19The battle still rages on.
32:22There are many questions.
32:24Will there be peace?
32:25Can there be peace?
32:26The effort that's on at that resort at Sharm al-Sheikh in Egypt, will it bring peace, this Trump 20-point agenda?
32:33And will Hamas have to leave the Gaza Strip for peace to prevail?
32:38Joining me are my colleagues on this special broadcast.
32:41Pranay Upadhyay joins us, all my other colleagues with me.
32:45Geeta, your take on what's happening right now, the effort for peace.
32:49And will Hamas have to let go of Gaza for peace?
32:53Well, Hamas will have to disarm itself.
32:56Of course, the talks are underway.
32:58But it's a question of trust.
33:01There is a huge trust deficit when it comes to Israel.
33:05And whether if Israel will go through the promises made in the deal,
33:10should there be an agreement between Hamas and Israel.
33:13And that's where the matter is stuck in Egypt,
33:17where complete disarmament is something they're still reluctant about,
33:20uncomfortable about, and the promises that are being made by Israel.
33:25But on the other hand, hostage release, first and foremost,
33:29is something that America and Israel are looking at,
33:32with a lot of pressure on Netanyahu in Israel.
33:35That's where it is at today.
33:37But the larger picture, two years hence,
33:39we're looking at 70,000 Palestinians dead.
33:4420,000 of them are children.
33:47Is this what it takes for peace and normalcy to return?
33:51And there's neither peace nor normalcy.
33:53And I don't know if there will be.
33:54And we don't know whether there will be.
33:56But, Maria, if I could quickly draw you in,
33:59Hamas will have to leave Gaza if there is to be peace.
34:02Is this the only way forward?
34:05How do you look at this?
34:06Yes, absolutely.
34:07It has to.
34:08I'm being reminded of that doctor who was there for the humanitarian work,
34:14Dr. Ala Al-Najar, who was a Palestinian physician,
34:17who spoke about the situation in Gaza and actually gave us the image which is harrowing
34:25and how everyone seems to have been completely stripped of basic human dignity.
34:32It has to, that peace has to prevail,
34:35even if it comes at the cost of Hamas leaving Gaza.
34:41But, there has to be a way forward out of this crisis.
34:45And let's look at the Palestinian cause here in a more sympathetic manner.
34:50I think the children of Gaza, the women of Gaza deserve an answer here.
34:54Oh, absolutely.
34:55Treeti, is there lack of sympathy or not adequate sympathy in the way Palestinians are suffering?
35:04Or, is it time for the entire world to actually unite and say,
35:10let Hamas leave, perhaps there will be peace?
35:13You know, Gaurav, is it time is actually, I think, that's laughable.
35:17Because, at least where I come from,
35:19you know, one can get into discussions and debates of displacement, occupation, decades over,
35:25and we can keep talking about the conflict.
35:27But, if you're human today and you do not recognize what is happening right now in Gaza
35:30and don't call it for what it is, which is genocide,
35:33then I don't think any of us, even with the view of being a journalist, can sit here.
35:39What is happening is genocide.
35:42You know, one might claim the Hamas started it, they lit the fire,
35:45or didn't start it, but at that point of time,
35:48aggraviated a conflict which was already on.
35:51And then, it's for them, you know, it was coming.
35:55But I am sorry.
35:56I think we haven't said enough.
35:57I think as humanity, you know, if you want to get into cliches,
36:03as a race, we need to be ashamed that we have sat through what we have sat through
36:07and looked the other way.
36:09And I am not surprised because there are political compulsions today,
36:12as, you know, and it might not be diplomatically correct for me to say it.
36:17It might not be politically correct.
36:18No, I will say a few things.
36:20I don't think it's politically correct for me to say it.
36:23Leave alone what's happening in Gaza, which I think is nothing but genocide.
36:26But what is, what are we doing?
36:27We are now courting the foreign minister of Taliban,
36:30where we know exactly what is happening to the women of Taliban.
36:33When there was an earthquake, women were not even pulled out of the debris.
36:37Why?
36:37You're not allowed to tell the women.
36:39Forget about it.
36:39Women are not allowed to speak.
36:40Taliban is another debate.
36:41No, it's not.
36:42I'll come to Taliban.
36:43Let's hear Gaza.
36:44It's humanity.
36:45It is humanity.
36:46Women are not allowed to speak.
36:48Women are not allowed to hear music.
36:50Women are not allowed to be seen.
36:51Women are not allowed to be rescued.
36:53Okay.
36:53Pranay wants to comment because today we will debate Taliban at another time,
36:57but right now it's Gaza.
36:59Respond.
36:59Gaurav, as far as the Gaza case is concerned,
37:01definitely it's a humanitarian crisis.
37:03But the history tells us that historically the citizen perspective or the geopolitical perspective
37:10have always differed.
37:12The fate of common people have always been decided in the chambers and the tables,
37:15where they do not have any representation.
37:17And we know how the boundaries have been drawn on this planet and how people's fate have been decided.
37:23If you see, Preeti was talking about the humanitarian crisis.
37:26Did anyone talk about the humanitarian crisis of Afghanistan?
37:29How many people died since the U.S. invasion?
37:31Did anyone talk about the Iraq invasion and the humanitarian crisis of Iraq?
37:35Over 2 lakh people died in over 1 lakh 76,000.
37:40As per the accounts of the official number is 1 lakh 76,000 people lost their life in Afghanistan.
37:47Were they not Muslims or were they not common people?
37:50Who made the distinction?
37:50So you're saying these are all agenda peddlers.
37:52These are, look, geopolitics will always go by the real politic.
37:55They will decide their own agenda.
37:57Politics always, you know, they think with their own perspective.
38:00But people's perspective will always remain.
38:02Is anyone concerned about the plight of Gaza people?
38:06And as far as the Hamas is concerned, forget about the name.
38:09But the same sentiment.
38:11After 2 years, will that sentiment go away?
38:13No.
38:14Yeah, because there was celebration, sadly, even today, Siddharth.
38:17Absolutely.
38:17It's so painful.
38:19Everyone has sympathy for the people of Palestine and people who are suffering.
38:23But in that same Gaza Strip, there are chaps who are celebrating the massacre of Israelis.
38:29In Germany, Gora, how did they release the hostages?
38:33Nobody is celebrating the death of anyone.
38:36And they should be condemned.
38:36Some people in Palestine are.
38:38They should be condemned, Gaza.
38:38Mementos, goody bags, is it the way they are going to?
38:41Look, they are using it as a moment of their victory.
38:46Whatever you will do, we will say.
38:48Gaza has become a face of resistance.
38:50So resistance means like they are going to resist.
38:53Whatever Israel might be doing, Israel has also lost in the last 2 years.
38:57Because the intent with which they started this operation, like eliminating Hamas, are they able to eliminate?
39:03No.
39:04If you go and see the idea of social media tweet, it says that even today, Hamas has the capacity to launch a rocket.
39:11This remains a reality after 2 years.
39:12They already did.
39:14And they did.
39:14And they did.
39:15Which is what McCross said.
39:1625,000 soldiers at the beginning of the war, they still have 25,000 commanders.
39:21Nothing has changed on the ground.
39:23Which means, even after 2 years, the world hasn't been able to come together on one single platform to say, get rid of Hamas.
39:32There can be no room for terror.
39:34There has to be zero tolerance for terror.
39:36And zero tolerance for civilian killing.
39:37You know, the tragic loss of civilian life in the last 2 years is absolutely horrific.
39:44There can be no two stands on that.
39:46The fact is that Hamas launched an unprecedented, brutal attack only against civilians on that fateful day.
39:57Nearly 5,000 rockets were fired.
40:003,000 Hamas armed fighters crossed the border, committed unspeakable atrocities and took away people.
40:09And many of them are still in confinement.
40:12Israel has responded.
40:13Obviously, the power differential between Israel as a nation state and the Hamas as a terrorist organization was always imbalanced.
40:22It has retaliated in the same manner that the United States wiped out whatever PAKA construction existed in Afghanistan or attacked Libya.
40:32But let's also focus on what are the objectives of a nation state when it defends its people and sovereignty and borders versus what an armed terror group did.
40:43Okay.
40:43Did Hamas expect this kind of response?
40:46They have to answer.
40:47And one final point, Gaurav.
40:49Our humanity and the concern for so many people, thousands and thousands of people dying subsequently, should be most important.
40:58But there is a big question.
40:59Had the Hamas released the hostages, including the young ones among the hostages, including the women, including those who had been injured, raped, defiled, whatever else.
41:11Had they released them, perhaps many thousands of lives in Gaza could have been saved.
41:17Anisha?
41:18That's a hypothesis.
41:19No, but the point is, no, but the point is, why would we want to give any leeway to a terrorist organization like Hamas?
41:30Anyone across the world?
41:31No, but it's not.
41:31May I?
41:32Why isn't the world uniting to say Hamas disarm now what Donald Trump is saying finally now?
41:38There have been attempts to solve this Palestine-Israel issue for decades.
41:43This is not a new thing.
41:45Yes, the current war is two years old.
41:47Yes.
41:47The actual conflict is about a hundred years old.
41:50Sure.
41:50Let's remember that there have been multiple instances of attempts to sort it out.
41:56There have been multiple agreements, accords, conventions, what have you.
42:02What, however, right now you also need to remember is that when Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu sit down and say Hamas must disarm,
42:11they're not even talking to the Palestinian Authority.
42:13The so-called government of Palestine that was created for the civilians to help the people to actually run a government,
42:23they're not even talking to them.
42:25Who exactly are Trump and Netanyahu coming to an agreement with?
42:29Hamas, let's face it, is a terrorist organization.
42:33Why have you undermined the Palestinian Authority?
42:35That's exactly what I'm saying.
42:37You are not talking to the Palestinian Authority.
42:39You are not talking about the civilians.
42:41You are actively stopping any and all humanitarian aid from entering.
42:46You are actively stopping the flotillas which are carrying medicine and food for children from entering the place.
42:54Are you seriously telling me that by creating this kind of absolute horror and violence,
43:01you expect that whoever is left standing in that devastated, bombed out crater will want to go for peace with you?
43:10Does that really actually work?
43:13So there are no two ways as far as the trust deficit is concerned and it is on both sides, needless to say.
43:20There are again no two ways about the fact that this is a conflict that is not two years old.
43:25It actually ranges into hundreds of years and that is where the problem primarily stems from.
43:30But again, we are talking today on the 7th of October and I'm sure all of us had broken hearts when we saw those pictures of what happened at the music festival.
43:41And when those people were scrambling, running from one corner to the other, more than 1,200 people died, 250 hostages.
43:51Again, I want to raise the point that he did.
43:53That fact also remains that in the two years, the negotiations that have happened, those hostages have still not been released and many of them have also died.
44:02And coming to your point of how the people are not being taken into account when it comes to all these negotiations that are happening,
44:11there was a three-phase ceasefire that was announced from January 19 to March 18, 2025, this year.
44:18But that failed so much so that the civilians were happy that things have started settling down and they had even started clearing the rubble.
44:28But that again, that again was a sparring because then the Hamas again...
44:35No, so right now we are talking about Gaza and I want to...
44:37No, no, no, wait. I am talking about Gaza for a moment.
44:41I want to conclude that as far as Trump's plan is concerned, needless to say, Hamas obviously has to disarm.
44:48And again, Netanyahu has made a statement saying that, you know, with Trump's plan of rebuilding Gaza,
44:55how we will de-radicalize people and this whole point of making it conducive for the people.
45:01Again, the trust, defensorism from Netanyahu and Netanyahu are not agreeing.
45:05I was in shock on 7th October 2023 and I've been in shock ever since, every day since then.
45:12My heart bled on the 7th of October and every day since then it's been bleeding.
45:18Because if you don't see the visuals and if it does not hit you what's happening to children in Gaza,
45:23then there's a problem as journalists.
45:25We have to look at what's happening on the ground.
45:28Collateral damage and the disproportionate way in which the response has been has to be accounted for.
45:35What's the way forward, Pranay, because, you know, Gita and I have also reported from there, as many of us.
45:40What I want to understand is, if Hamas is hiding in an underground bunker, okay, using civilians as hostages.
45:48Hospitals?
45:49Under hospitals.
45:50How does the Israeli security forces, how do they carry out an operation without there being collateral damage?
45:56They're actually issuing notices saying, leave this area.
45:59Collateral damage which has led to the biggest humanitarian crisis.
46:02They might say, leave this area, they're not allowing them to leave.
46:06Okay.
46:06They're not allowing people to leave.
46:09You're not allowing people to leave where young children don't have food to eat.
46:14You've shut the gates.
46:15You've shut the gates.
46:16You've created a famine and, you know, you're really shooting people.
46:19It's what happened on 7th October was terrible.
46:22It is terrible.
46:23It's the worst thing.
46:24I still remember that picture of that young girl who was pulled away on a motorcycle.
46:28It still gives me goosebumps.
46:29I think most of us.
46:30Yes, yes.
46:31But, you know, the rest of, there are so many people who might call it bleeding hearts, but with what Gita said.
46:36But, Piti, for long Gaza has remained an open prison.
46:40This is the irony.
46:41How are we then?
46:42Exactly.
46:43So, who's interested in solving the problem?
46:45Is it the Gaza peace plan is only...
46:47Rane, all I'm talking about is in the last two years, if any of us is going to sit here and defend what is going on right now in Gaza,
46:55whether you call it bleeding heart or inhuman, this is genocide.
47:00So, we are trying to figure out...
47:02This is genocide.
47:02Please accept it.
47:03We are trying to figure out a way forward.
47:05Is everyone on the same page here, at least, that Hamas needs to go?
47:10There is...
47:10Terror cannot be a road to solution.
47:12Absolutely.
47:12Whether it's Hamas...
47:13Absolutely.
47:14Hamas there or Lashkar-e-Terra here.
47:15I agree with what you...
47:16If you're looking at a long-term solution, are we looking at a long-term solution or with this Gaza peace plan?
47:22Are we going to get a long-term solution?
47:23Nobody has an answer because...
47:25Look, you might have...
47:26Like, PIJ is already there.
47:28Palestine Islamic Jihad is already there.
47:29And there are many other organizations that still exist within the same community.
47:33How are you going to make that distinction?
47:35Nobody knows.
47:36Because it is so intertwined.
47:38It is so there that Hamas tomorrow, it might crop up with...
47:41Because the same organization.
47:42Hamas under another name.
47:44Look, Gaurav, it was PLO.
47:45It used to be Yasser Arafat.
47:46Yes.
47:46Palestine Liberation Organization.
47:48They formed a political party.
47:50It became Fatah.
47:50Then someone, for their own political reasons, they propped up Hamas.
47:54Now Hamas became a villain.
47:56Now they want to...
47:57It's about Benjamin Netanyahu.
47:58Benjamin Netanyahu.
47:59Benjamin Netanyahu.
48:00The political reason.
48:01No, the political reason was to undermine the Palestine authority.
48:04Look, it's the state...
48:05If it's the state and non-state actors, the way the state play this game, then truth has always remained a casualty on a battlefield.
48:14See, how they are peddling their narrative, nobody knows.
48:16But is anyone seriously interested?
48:18I don't see a hope unless there is a proper representation.
48:22See the Arab world.
48:23How are they behaving?
48:24Look, the kind of pressure which was created on Benjamin Netanyahu to say sorry to Qatar, did they create similar kind of pressure for Benjamin Netanyahu to say sorry?
48:34What explains that, Maria, in your view?
48:36Let me bring in Maria also and Preeti into this conversation.
48:39What explains the Arab world also unable or unwilling to put pressure on Israel when it comes to its actions in Gaza?
48:48It is known Arab hypocrisy.
48:51I mean, it's not happening for the first time.
48:53They haven't done so for the longest time.
48:56They know that they can be the peacemakers.
48:59But the Arab world has chosen this path because there was that deal which is almost on the verge of signing the Saudi-Israel deal which did not really go through because of this war which started.
49:12I think the entire spotlight has to be on those 2.2 million people who are facing disease, facing famine, facing hunger amidst this entire destruction.
49:26And the entire world has to come together for this.
49:30Gaza peace plan should be given a chance.
49:33We do not know long term how it will be playing out.
49:36But whatever, peace has to be given a chance for the sake of the children of Gaza.
49:40In fact, Preeti, right now when you look at the way this crisis is unfolding or an effort to find a solution is being sought.
49:49Step one, Hamas has to go.
49:51Everyone is on the same page on that.
49:53Of course.
49:53We are all on the same page on that.
49:54Of course.
49:55Yeah, absolutely.
49:58I don't think there is a debate.
49:59No, no.
50:00Everyone is on the same page.
50:02Very, very happening.
50:03There is however a but.
50:04Okay.
50:05And a however.
50:06Yes.
50:06Hamas must go.
50:08Yes.
50:08Clearly.
50:09Disarm, go, leave Gaza.
50:10Go, leave Gaza.
50:11But how do you de-radicalize the elements who may crop up under some names?
50:14No, I'm not even talking about it.
50:15Like Lashkar-e-Taiba.
50:16No, I'm not even talking about that right.
50:17You know, Lashkar-e-Taiba came up as the resistance front.
50:20So Hamas will come up with some secular resounding name.
50:22Should Israel withdraw?
50:23Should Israel withdraw?
50:24Because when you're talking about the Trump-Netaniyahu peace plan?
50:26So should we look at statehood for Palestine?
50:29Okay.
50:29And unless there is statehood, there is going to be no equality.
50:32It's always going to be Israel above Palestine.
50:35So there should be two clear states living in harmony with each other without terror, which
50:42is India's stated position.
50:43Because for decades we've seen, and we've seen, and you may have whatever view you have
50:48of the international community and of the UN, you have an ICJ, the International Court
50:54of Justice saying that Israel has been illegally occupying territory that it has no business
51:00occupying after the Oslo Accord.
51:01Sure, but Israel has actually released all that territory, had moved out of Gaza, it moved
51:06out of Gaza, lock, stock and barrel, Hamas took over, Hamas took over, this is a great
51:13narrative, because withdrawing from the territory and having control over exit and entry are very
51:21different things.
51:22If Israel still controlled the exit and entry, and Gazans were dependent on Israel to see
51:28whether they can leave or not, they'd say Egypt was open, but hardly, everything was controlled.
51:33But Egypt also has so many restrictions on people from Palestine coming in, so does Jordan.
51:41Because they do not want refugees anymore, but that aside, if the exit and entry are controlled,
51:48Palestinians will also have to think about, why is it that even Egypt and Jordan don't
51:52want land.
51:53After Hamas was elected, there was a blockade.
51:55We can't even discuss the fact that Israel has an existential threat there.
51:59So that the country has always remained in existential threat, and Hamas has always fired.
52:03Because if you keep doing this, you will always be against that.
52:05Priti, an existential threat, so Israel will do whatever it takes to keep itself safe.
52:08They will keep doing what Israel does to Palestine, they will always be existential.
52:13The irony runs so deep, because Israel and the Jews have gone through so much to turn
52:18around on what's happening right now, I think is a writ on the wall.
52:21But Gaurav, like I said, I don't want to get into it.
52:24It's a conversation you don't want to have, because if it is humanitarian, we're rolling
52:27up the red carpet for the Foreign Minister of Farah.
52:29Taliban is in debate, we'll have another time.
52:31No, we must have it.
52:32Today it's purely.
52:33We must have it.
52:34There is another democratic newsroom on that, with Priti moderating that very soon.
52:40But this is…
52:41And hopefully you're taking the side of the women of Afghanistan.
52:44I will always take the side of whatever keeps my country safe and Indian interests supreme.
52:49I'm very clear about that.
52:50He is acting like the Arab world.
52:52No, I'm acting as somebody, I want to look after my country's interests.
52:57My country's interests are supreme as far as I am concerned.
53:01That's exactly what every country did during the Gaza war.
53:05India first and Indian interests supreme.
53:07That is all I can say.
53:09That's all we have for you on this democratic newsroom.
53:12Great conversation.
53:13We'll be back with lots more.
53:14Many thanks for watching.
53:15News and updates continue on India today.
53:17Stay with us.
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