- 4 months ago
In this edition of Newstrack, the focus is on Prime Minister Narendra Modi's address at the RSS's 100th-anniversary event in New Delhi.
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00:00This is the News Track and I'm Maria Shakil. At the RSS's 100th anniversary event, Prime Minister Narendra Modi warned that India faces a serious challenge not just from outsiders but from changes within its own population.
00:15He said that while India's strength lies in its unity despite diversity, growing divisions based on caste, language and religion are weakening that unity. The Prime Minister has also called these demographic changes a threat to social equality and has warned that they could harm India's harmony, country's harmony and progress if not addressed.
00:41And he has stressed that there is a need to be alert and work together to protect India's unity for the future.
00:49And while the warning was national in tone, it hits particularly close to home in states like Assam and Bengal where rapid demographic shifts have already triggered political tensions and long-standing fears about identity and infiltration.
01:06We will decode the population politics on News Track tonight. But first up, let's listen in to what the Prime Minister said.
01:14Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Wednesday attended the centenary celebrations of the RSS at the Dr. Ambedkar International Centre in New Delhi.
01:40To mark the occasion, the Prime Minister released a commemorative post-state stamp and coin.
01:51Prime Minister Modi, a long-time member of the sangh, praised the organization's legacy and values, calling RSS a symbol of discipline, service and sacrifice.
02:01Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Thursday for all.
02:03Prime Minister Modi, a strong member of the song, asked to say, multi-partits of religion.
02:08Prime Minister Modi, a branch of religion has been multiplied by its celui-ci as a symbol of tradition.
02:15Prime Minister Modi, an excellent part of the conservative and political opposition.
02:19The Prime Minister also spoke emotionally about historical injustices done to RSS
02:49leaders.
03:19The Prime Minister also spoke emotionally about historical injustices done to RSS.
03:56He also warned a new age threats pointing to demographic changes and attempts to divide
04:17the country's unity.
04:18The Prime Minister also spoke emotionally about historical injustices done to RSS.
04:25The Prime Minister also spoke emotionally about historical injustices done to RSS.
04:32The Prime Minister also spoke emotionally about historical injustices done to RSS.
04:39The Prime Minister also spoke emotionally about historical injustices done to RSS.
04:46The Prime Minister also spoke emotionally about historical injustices done to RSS.
04:53The Prime Minister also spoke emotionally about historical injustices done to RSS.
05:00The Prime Minister also spoke emotionally about historical injustices done to RSS.
05:07The Prime Minister also spoke emotionally about historical injustices done to RSS.
05:08The Prime Minister also spoke emotionally about historical injustices done to RSS.
05:13The Prime Minister also spoke emotionally about historical injustices done to RSS.
05:14The Prime Minister also spoke emotionally about historical injustices done to RSS.
05:19But the centenary celebration wasn't without political heat.
05:38The Congress launched a scathing attack accusing RSS of having played no role in the freedom struggle.
05:44We all know that RSS was not part of the Quit India Movement.
05:49They were not part of the Indian National Army with Netaji also.
05:53They were with the British.
05:54When we read about the Quit India Movement, what history we are going to say?
06:00It's going to be only absenteeism of RSS there.
06:04The debate around RSS legacy is far from over.
06:08With Himanshu Mishra, Bureau Report, India Today.
06:14Professor Rakesh Sina is RSS ideologue and former member of Parliament.
06:18Sudhata Paul is the spokesperson of the Congress.
06:21And Amitabh Tiwari is political strategist and commentator.
06:25Rakesh Sina, when the Prime Minister links demographics to social harmony,
06:31there are two readings of that linkage.
06:34Many would say that this is preparing the ground for divisive identity politics,
06:39that is the opposition's charge.
06:42Others would say that this is about uniting the country.
06:46Could you explain the entire pitch and the platform on which this pitch becomes significant?
06:54I know when the Prime Minister says that he began the demographic research,
06:59and he talks about the kind of demographic engineering in the country,
07:04he is highlighting three important factors.
07:07First, that there is a concerted effort by certain people, knowingly and unknowingly,
07:15to increase their population.
07:17That is going against the balance in the country, that is demographic balance.
07:22That is against the sociological balance.
07:24That is also against the cultural norms of the country.
07:29Even during the Indira Gandhi regime, there was family planning and family welfare schemes.
07:34That was considered that it would not be an authoritarian-like emergency,
07:39but the people would go by the norms of the replacement level.
07:43But this is not happening.
07:45If any discussion on any law, it is said that it is going against the minorities,
07:51or particularly the Muslim community,
07:53you just go and see the situation in Assam.
07:56The demographic change after 1950.
07:59How could it change?
08:01The almost 30 to 40 percent of a particular community,
08:04which was just 10 to 11 percent.
08:0730 percent increase in a particular community.
08:10Other communities decrease.
08:12You know, the demographic imbalance is not only the change in the numerical status of the community.
08:19When demographic imbalance makes an impact on the culture,
08:24makes an impact on the perspective of the nation,
08:27it becomes very, very serious.
08:30Will India be India or not?
08:32Will Bharat be Bharat or it will not be Bharat?
08:35That is the main vision.
08:36That is the main concern for the Prime Minister.
08:38Being the guardian of the country.
08:40He is the Prime Minister.
08:41He is the guardian of the country.
08:42He naturally highlights the issue.
08:44It is not going against a particular community or a particular region.
08:47It has nothing to do with the election.
08:48The election will come and go.
08:50But India has to stay as a nation-state.
08:52So, it is the demographic imbalance which led to the partition of the country.
08:58This is the fact.
09:00Nobody can ignore this fact.
09:03Therefore, I consider that.
09:05Okay.
09:06Then, Sujata Paul, if this demographic challenge is a reality on the ground in certain states,
09:15then it should not be seen from the political prism.
09:18Why is the Congress calling it divisive?
09:21If there are cultural changes happening, then it's a matter of a larger concern.
09:27It should not be seen as manufactured, as you often say, that it's an electoral tool in states.
09:33Well, I don't need to say it.
09:35If you read the bunch of thoughts written by their Guru Golwalkar,
09:39it is very clear that they have always considered three enemies.
09:43The first, Muslims.
09:45Second, Christians.
09:46And the third, leftists.
09:48That is why the Prime Minister uses the word urban naqsal so loosely.
09:54The fact of the matter is that from both chores, they have become itihaz chores.
09:59And that is why today they are trying to reject the RSS in such light that people might forget what their past has been.
10:08Nobody will forget it because these are the people who have never believed in the constitution of the country.
10:14They have never believed in the national flag, in the democracy, in the secularism, in federalism.
10:20And that is a fact that they cannot run away from.
10:23And clearly, if they were involved even in, you know, in the past, let's say, before I come to the present about demography,
10:30they should tell us, is there one picture of one leader of theirs taken by the Britishers, which was published in any newspaper,
10:38with their flag, whichever flag they believed in, fighting for the nation?
10:42So they do not understand the spirit of this nation.
10:44And therefore, what they want is a one India, which is oneness in known form, not oneness in unity, in diversity.
10:55That is the reason why they are going to be questioned.
10:58And the fact that when the Prime Minister says nation first, is it not going to be a question on them as to why is it that they have been in power for 11 years,
11:08but now the Prime Minister is saying that you have to be worried about demography changes.
11:13And this is a word which has come in ever since the BJP came to power, and they have not been able to do anything and not given it to us.
11:20Could this demographic change, if it is a real social challenge, could this have been addressed in these 11 years that you have been in power, Rakesh Sina?
11:29And then I bring in Amitabh Tiwari.
11:31You are asking me?
11:36No, that's a question to Professor Rakesh Sina.
11:39Yeah.
11:40You know, I am really surprised.
11:43Some literate people, educated people behave like an illiterate ideologue.
11:49And what she is speaking?
11:51I don't understand.
11:52RSS believes in the three internal enemies or Guru Gulbakar wrote in a bunch of thought.
11:57You made debate on Guru Gulbakar in a bunch of thought.
12:00Nobody stops you.
12:01Nobody stops you.
12:02Here, there is a pointed question and pointed issue Prime Minister raised.
12:07The demographic imbalance, whether it is fact or not.
12:11Whether in Assam, Golpalar district, there is a great demographic transformation.
12:17Is it fact or not?
12:19In Malda and Mursida, Araria and Purnia and Katihar, the demographic imbalance is highlighted like the rage of the sun.
12:28And you are seeing that the Prime Minister is trying to divide the country.
12:31He is highlighting the RSS role.
12:33Then whom he will highlight.
12:35Guru Gulbakar, he talked about that.
12:38He was in jail.
12:39In 1950, Nehru started a food campaign program.
12:43There was a great scarcity of the food in this country.
12:46The food secretary wrote Nehru.
12:47This is all recorded history.
12:49That we require to solicit the help of RSS.
12:53Nehru said, you take help, but be clever.
12:56They are very stupid.
12:58Look at Nehru.
12:59And the RSS joined the food campaign.
13:01The government which banned the RSS.
13:03Thousands of workers were jailed.
13:05Even the 11 children were jailed.
13:11And about this comment, I have one quote for the AGK.
13:16You are the congressman and minister in the United Provinces.
13:20That is .
13:24I am coming to you ma'am.
13:25I have one question to Amitabh Tiwari.
13:26Because, you know, he will be able to give us the real ground picture.
13:37Amitabh Tiwari, to what extent does this demographic challenge, narrative, reflect actual ground realities?
13:47You know, because many would say it's manufactured.
13:50But give us the ground picture.
13:53What exactly is the truth on the ground?
13:56No, see, essentially we have to look at this statement in continuation with what the prime minister spoke on the independence day about the demography mission.
14:05Clearly linked to infiltration.
14:08And immigrants, whether legal or illegal, are an issue globally now.
14:12We have seen in Europe, US, there is a big protest against infiltrators, legal or illegal.
14:19Because everywhere it is a realization that outsiders put pressure on resources.
14:25They take land, jobs, etc.
14:26As the prime minister mentioned in the independence day speech.
14:29Now this issue, again, of infiltration is largely centered around border areas.
14:35We have a very tight border with Pakistan.
14:38So there is negligible infiltration there except for maybe in form of terrorism between POK and JNK.
14:47But the larger issues remain in Assam, West Bengal and nearby states.
14:53We do not have the census number because census has been delayed.
14:57So we will get to know the changes between 2011 and 2526.
15:02Then, however, despite it being a very big issue and the government mentioning that there are two crore illegal immigrants.
15:11What I fail to understand is that one and a half months has passed since the independence day speech.
15:18We still do not have the contours of this mission.
15:21This is a big security risk.
15:24We need to tackle this.
15:25But we need the steps from the government as to how do we stop infiltration?
15:29How do we identify the current infiltrators?
15:32And what do we do with them?
15:34We deport them.
15:35We put them in camps, etc.
15:38So I think these things need to come out clearly if the government is serious about this.
15:43Sujata Paul, comment.
15:44Yes.
15:45Clearly, this is not an issue.
15:46This is a manufactured issue.
15:47Because this is something that they are going to be talking about to create a Hindu-Muslim divide, a Hindu-Christian divide, all kinds of divides.
15:58That is the problem of the RSS because coming from what my previous panelists have said, it is very clear that when you talk about infiltrators, who has been in power for the last 11 years and who has been in power in Assam even before that.
16:14So, clearly, the border security forces are under you, the armed forces are under you.
16:19And you need to explain to us how is it that these infiltrators have infiltrated the country and the demography has changed?
16:25No.
16:26We have seen what they are doing.
16:27They are trying to make sure that people fight with each other.
16:30This is what happened in Manipur when the Metis were given tribal status.
16:35This is what is being done in various parts of the country because let me explain here that when you have the SCST Act and if in that you have a community which has been marginalized and then you get another community which is considered to be the upper caste of that particular area and they get the tribal status, they will not have the SCST Act applied on us and atrocities will be unleashed on people.
17:02I want to understand that these are the same people who are talking about Akhand Bharat on the one hand.
17:08So, what was this Akhand Bharat?
17:09So, clearly, there is a confusion and you will not be able to explain anything because there is no data.
17:15Where is that data?
17:16Should the data not have been collected?
17:18Should there not be a census?
17:20Should there not be a caste census to determine who resides in this country and how much of the resources are available for that particular community so that they can benefit and the country can prosper?
17:31But that is not something that they will do because it's a failure of a government and the Prime Minister from being not biological to what he wanted to be, he has been made biological.
17:41Professor Rakesh Sina, this is an effort to divide the country.
17:45Okay.
17:46Professor Rakesh Sina, the point that was made by Amitabh Tiwari perhaps would be seen as valid.
17:52Do we have the numbers of the infiltrators?
17:55Do we have the numbers of those who are trying to disturb the country, you know, the social harmony being impacted here as the Prime Minister is highlighting?
18:04And because 15th August has passed and we are now looking at 1st of October, is there some kind of mission which is, you know, if it is continuity, do we have that picture or the roadmap of that mission?
18:18Dr. Rakesh Sina, I completely endorse Prime Minister's statement, not because I am a member of his party and SMP. I introduced a bill on population stability in 2019. It was discussed today in the Rajya Sabha. And I studied the demographic situation in the country. I am telling you why Prime Minister said so.
18:43Dr. Rakesh Sina, there are 72 districts in this country where the fertility rate is poor. The average fertility rate is 1.8. Now the gap between 1.8 and 4, it is reproducing something, a new kind of sociological thing in the country.
19:01Dr. Rakesh Sina, you go to Meibath, you will find. The person who says that what is the cultural impact, I am requesting that. I am not against a particular community.
19:09This thing I am telling that there are so many enlightened people but their voices is suppressed by those elements who are very orthodox and oligarchy of a particular community is projecting that community, particularly the Muslim community.
19:23Dr. Rakesh Sina, I am reaching the very fundamental question. No Muslim has a problem in a Hindu majority area. He or she can stay, a single member family stay in an apartment where 190 Hindu families are. But vice versa is not true.
19:38It may be an exception but generally it is not true. So sociological change, we have nothing to do with which community is going more and which community is less. It is not important.
19:48Important is the nation first. Important is accepting the cultural legacy of the country. Important is accepting the things which are far behind the edges of your religion.
20:01Suppose I form a particular religion and my followers would say that I would consider only things which start after Rakesh Sina was born. It is not true.
20:11We can have many religions, many sects in India. India is a land of diversity. Without diversity, India cannot be imagined. The idea of India is the one thing which explains the idea of India. This is the diversity.
20:24That is the essence. Nothing more, nothing less. That's why I am telling you that if you want to discuss a particular topic, you should be well studied, homework.
20:33And I am telling you one thing more. The Hindu population has decreased to 1.8 average, 1.7 average. National population average is 1.7. It is 2011 data. But still Muslim population average is more than 2. So question is not the Hindu Muslim.
20:49The question is creating a balance. Which are the elements which are stopping the balance.
20:54Okay. So Jantapal, quick response to Rakesh Sina and then I will give the last word to Amitabh.
20:59You know, the Prime Minister said, Mangal, Sutra, Chin ke sab kuch de denge unke jinkke zyada bachche hote hain. So what is Mr. Sina talking about? I don't understand. And when you talk about fertility rate, please remember that it is people's choice also and you should be concerned about the overpopulation also.
21:18So there are people who are also, there are lots of young couples who do not want to have children, who want to have one child. And here the RSS expects everybody to have at least two children, but, and three also.
21:29But let me come to the NRC, which was being done in Assam. 19 lakh people were put in detention centers. And out of those 19 lakh, only 30,000 were proved to be infiltrators and foreigners and sent back.
21:44If this is a fact, then you have to explain why are you demonizing people? Why are you putting people in detention centers when you do not have proof? And clearly you have been in power for the last 11 years at the center and you are responsible for any kind of change, any kind of infiltration.
22:03I have just enough time for Amitabhtiwari. Amitabhtiwari, of course, you know, many would say that this is a calculation which has been done, keeping in mind electoral interests, particularly states which are going to polls next year, keeping in mind Assam and the state of Bengal.
22:20But if it is a threat, it has to be addressed and it has to be addressed right from the top of the government, which the prime minister himself is doing.
22:27Of course, it's a national security risk point and it needs to be addressed. The prime minister has been continuously making statements about this demography mission and it's high time that we need some roadmap of this mission as to what the objectives it will have and how it will be achieved.
22:47See, culturally also, if you see the infiltration in Assam or West Bengal does create issues between the Assamese Muslims and the Bengali-speaking Muslims.
22:57There is a cultural issue also which is happening and we need to be very, very cognizant of the fact.
23:03I think we need to have a clear roadmap now as to how to stop infiltration, identify the people and deport themselves.
23:10Fine enough. Thank you so much for joining us. Professor Rakesh Sinha, always pleasure having you on my shows.
23:15Sujata Paula, Amitabhtiwari, thank you for your time here.
23:18That's all from me on this edition of the news track. Thanks so much for watching.
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