US-Israel Gaza plan: 'With int'l admin in Gaza, Palestine, Palestinians are going to disappear'

FRANCE 24 English

Visit our website: http://www.france24.com  Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English  Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/France24_en

Transcript

00:00And joining us from Rommel on the West Bank is Francesca Bori,

00:04journalist for Italian daily newspaper La Repubblica.

00:08Thank you for being with us here on France 24.

00:11The endorsement of the plan, well, it runs wide.

00:14You have the latest being the UN Secretary General, the leaders of France and the UK,

00:19a joint statement by Arab and Muslim countries welcoming the proposals,

00:24even though the details for now are hazy. What about where you are?

00:30Morally, not just politically, morally, whoever is not in Gaza right now

00:40can't say no to a ceasefire. Everybody wants a ceasefire in Gaza, out of Gaza.

00:47I mean, all Palestinians want a ceasefire. The point is, what about Hamas?

00:55And Hamas can't say yes and can't say no. It is really in a corner. It is discussing now,

01:04in these hours, the plan. And somehow, you know, this plan has been decided in a way

01:12to force Hamas to say no and to be blamed for the collapse, you know, of talks.

01:23But if you read the plan, it's really, you know, just think about Tony Blair running Gaza.

01:30Some of the points really go, you know, beyond imagination.

01:36The proposal of Tony Blair running Gaza. Have you spoken to Palestinians this morning?

01:44Look, you can't even mention Tony Blair, not only in Palestine. I would say across the Middle East.

01:50You can't even mention Tony Blair.

01:55What about the way this has all come about? Because like you say, there's this feeling that

02:03there's going to be once again this moment where before the meeting yesterday in Washington,

02:10Trump is forcing Netanyahu's hand. He forced him to speak on the telephone with the Emir of Qatar.

02:16And now that the plan's been unveiled, and he says that they'll be going to hell if they don't accept it.

02:26Does it feel like a win for Israel's prime minister?

02:35I wouldn't use, you know, the word victory for nothing, neither for Israel nor for Hamas,

02:44even if, you know, there is Iran, for example, you know, that says that, you know, Hamas is

02:50winning because basically Israel has been accused of genocide. So I wouldn't really speak of victory

02:57for anyone. And I think, you know, that what is really new, you know, in this plan, there is something

03:06very old. As usual, I mean, once again, basically, what is asked to Palestinians is very, you know, detailed.

03:18So Palestinians, not only Hamas, also the Palestinian authority in this plan are asked to do this and

03:23that. And if they don't comply, there are, you know, effects and consequences. While on the Israeli side,

03:30on the other side, you don't have, you know, clear commitments, you don't have clear obligations,

03:37you know, and this has been the Oslo story and the story of all, you know, the ceasefire proposals.

03:45The point is the real new, you know, thing is that, you know, now you have, as you said, you know,

03:51basically all the Arab Muslim world behind this plan, except for Iran. And it's something like,

04:00you know, Arab countries are basically fed up with Palestinians and not just with Hamas,

04:08also with the Palestinian authority, you know. So they're just saying, okay, it's enough,

04:13because basically with this plan, with an international administration in Gaza,

04:18Palestine is going to disappear. Palestinians are going to disappear.

04:25So Arab nations who want to just move on to other things. In Europe, though, the political reaction

04:32has been different the past few weeks. We've seen this conference on a two-state solution,

04:38champions by the likes of France and the UK. We've seen the Italian position, which has become more and

04:44more outspoken for stopping the war in Gaza. Does that matter?

04:54Yes. You have basically two Italys now, because as you know, you know, our prime minister,

05:02Giorgia Meloni, is, you know, one of the best friends of Trump. So Giorgia Meloni supports,

05:09you know, Trump in everything, you know. And she said a few days ago that, of course,

05:15Italy didn't recognize the state of Palestine. She said that Italy will recognize the state of

05:24Palestine if, and you know, there are a few conditions that Hamas, as usual, has to respect.

05:30On the other hand, you have Italians, most of Italians, who are taking the streets, you know,

05:39in solidarity. And there is much more of what, you know, you see in the media. There are demonstrations

05:45every day, there are strikes every day, here and there. And of course, you know, it's not enough.

05:53But there's even another initiative. Italy hosts the community of experts that is working with

06:04Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank for a bottom-up reconstruction plan of Gaza, that basically

06:10can also revive the civil society. This is called Gaza Fenix, which is, you know, the plan that media

06:17basically overlooked in the last months, a plan that, you know, really Palestinians believe in.

06:25And the community of experts, you know, which is developing this plan is based in Italy.

06:31So you have the government on one side and Italians on the other side. And this is more or less what you

06:38what you see, not just in Italy, but increasingly everywhere, except that, you know, in the Middle

06:46East, in Arab countries, where, you know, think of it, you don't see demonstrations anywhere,

06:53you don't see, you know, Arabs taking the streets.

06:58Italy, there's also the Catholic Church. And we heard the Prime Minister of Italy saying,

07:04for instance, that the aid from this flotilla that's still trying to reach Gaza,

07:09maybe they should hand it over to the church to bring it over, to bring it, to bring it in.

07:16Yes, of course. So we have Cardinal Pizzaballa, who is really, you know, a left man of the church in

07:23Italy. And he's the, basically has the church in Jerusalem. And he went to Gaza and he's involved in

07:32the talks. And yes, he's trying, you know, to negotiate for the freedom flotilla. Actually,

07:38tonight, this is the last night, because at two, tonight, so 2am tonight, the flotilla will cross,

07:47basically, will enter, let's say, Israel occupied waters, because in theory, you know,

07:55we are speaking of Palestinian waters, but you know, will pass from international waters into,

08:01let's say, Israeli controlled waters. So at 2am tonight, the IDF, I mean, should stop, basically,

08:12the flotilla. We don't know what will happen, because the flotilla, you know, there are so many

08:19different kinds of activists on board, not all Italians, and the majority would like to

08:29to continue as much as possible and to break the blockade. And there is a minority that already

08:36said that, you know, they will stop as soon as they see an IDF light. So we will see, we will see

08:43what happens. But actually, you know, we should focus on Gaza and not, you know, on international

08:52activists, honestly. And focus on Gaza, because? Well, because of what is happening.

09:04It's a sideshow, is what you're saying. This is a sideshow.

09:06No, I think, you know, that the point is, let's say, I will quote, you know, Palestinians,

09:17as Palestinians say, it's better than nothing. The point is, after two years of war, after 66,000

09:24dead, and all, you know, that we know, well, symbolic actions are not enough, and really very,

09:34very, very little, especially, especially, because, you know, one of the critical points,

09:40you know, in the ceasefire talks is the future government of Gaza. No, we know that, you know,

09:46because Israel says, what is the alternative, you know? If you don't have, you know, Hamas,

09:52what is the alternative? There is no alternative, no? So we have an international administration. Now,

09:58the Palestinian Authority should be the alternative, or should, you know, call for elections and allow

10:03an alternative. The Palestinian Authority is fully funded by the European Union, by European countries.

10:09So, you know, European and European activists, you know, have much more power than, you know,

10:17they believe. So they should rather work, you know, to change the Palestinian Authority,

10:23or to force the Palestinian Authority to change, instead of, you know, just, well, taking the sea.

10:30Francesca Bori, many thanks for joining us today from Ramala.

Category

Transcript

Be the first to comment

Recommended