- 2 months ago
In this special Merdeka Day episode of Life Confessions, he reflects on the defining moment that turned his climb into a national triumph, the doubts and vulnerabilities he faced along the way, and the emotions of standing on the world’s highest peak.
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00:00As soon as I reached the summit, you know, tears just rolled down. I pulled out my walkie-talkie.
00:04I just informed a climbing leader, Major Risan, who was stationed at Camp 2 at the time,
00:09that I am talking from the summit of Mount Everest. I told myself, if I don't try, I will
00:15probably be regretting for the rest of my life that I could have made it. So we have to be careful
00:20not to make any mistakes because mistakes at that altitude can be fatal. We have seen climbers
00:25died in the sleep at the base camp. You know, anything can be achieved as long as we are
00:30working on it wholeheartedly.
00:39Welcome to another episode of Life Confessions and yet another amazing guest joins us. Today
00:47we have the first Malaysian to summit Everest, Datuk Magindran, who is also known affectionately
00:55as Datuk Magindran. Thank you for joining us.
00:58Thank you. Thank you for having me here today.
01:00I'm sure, Datuk, that so many people have spoken to you about your amazing experience having
01:05summited Everest in 1997, right? What do you think was the defining moment when you first
01:12realised that summiting Everest was more than just a personal goal, that it would carry symbolic
01:18weight for all Malaysians under the Malaysia Buleh spirit, you know, during that time?
01:23that all Malaysians were so proud of you.
01:27When you talk about Malaysia Buleh, right, it is actually a motivational catchphrase.
01:34And it is also a pride of, it's a national pride, right? So to instil values like, you know,
01:44Malaysians can do anything. Malaysia Buleh was initially established to boost the pride of national
01:55spirit among Malaysian athletes who participated in the various international events, international
02:00sports. That's how Malaysia Buleh phrase actually came about. And it is, when you translate Malaysia
02:07Buleh, it is about unity, it's about teamwork, it's about determination, it's about
02:14efforts, overcoming odds through efforts, and so on and so forth. So Malaysia Buleh is actually not just a
02:27simple phrase, but it means much more than that. Yeah. You know, and Malaysia Everest 97's success is just that.
02:35Right. You know, when we successfully submitted Mount Everest in 1997, it was a showcase of all the elements,
02:45all the values that I just mentioned. Yeah. You know, so without hard work, without determination, without
02:52perseverance, without the unity, unity teamwork, you know, Malaysians wouldn't have successfully submitted
03:02Mount Everest in 1997. Right. It was a team effort. Yeah. It was a clear message to all Malaysians,
03:09especially the young ones, the Malaysian youth, that with hard work, determination, and all those
03:17elements, we can achieve anything. So that became a very impactful event among the Malaysian youth. Yeah.
03:29And the success of Malaysia Everest 97 can be considered as a pioneering feat that has actually
03:38motivated many Malaysians to explore into areas where, you know, Malaysians have gone before and
03:45succeed. So like what we have seen after Malaysia Everest 97, like swimming across the English channels,
03:53and then we have a Malaysian who sail around the world. Yeah. We have Malaysians who
04:01tracked, tracked, explored to the South Pole, North Poles, and many more. So everything started from
04:11Malaysia Everest 97. Yeah. Yeah. So it gave like a lot of people the inspiration and drive to also
04:19achieve greater things. Yes. Initially, it was, it was, people are skeptical. Can, can Malaysians do this?
04:28Yeah. Can we do this? Uh, isn't this just for, for, uh, certain race? Hmm. You know, certain group of
04:36people, not us. We don't have, we don't have snowcap mountains in Malaysia. Yeah. We don't have this,
04:41we don't have that. Uh, this is, this kind of activities are not for us. Yeah. But when we
04:48successfully submitted Mount Everest, that whole mindset changes, changed. And, and, and today,
04:54uh, we have many Malaysians. We have at least, uh, 29, 30 Malaysians who have successfully submitted
05:00Mount Everest. Wow. Right. In the, in the last 28 years. Yeah. And not only Mount Everest, but,
05:05you know, and many other mountains. Hmm. Bringing up the, the challenges that you faced as well,
05:12when you, uh, managed to summit Everest in 1997, during your training, right? Did you ever doubt
05:21your physical or mental limits? Like at points where you worried, maybe I can't do this, you know,
05:26how, how did you overcome those feelings? Right. Initially, uh, when, uh, we applied to join the
05:35training program, uh, uh, towards the Malaysia project, uh, Malaysia Everest 97 project, uh, there
05:41were at least, uh, 100 applicants. Right. You know, gathered at a spot where we were briefed on, uh,
05:49what we will be looking, uh, looking at next. Hmm. All right. So during that meeting, I was there
05:55and I was one of the smaller sized person. Hmm. All right. And I was sitting there against all those,
06:01uh, tough, muscular bodies. Hmm. And I was thinking at that time, are you sure? Seriously?
06:08Uh, that sort of thing, actually. That was the beginning. That was the beginning. So, and I was
06:13like, I need to really work hard if I, if I, uh, were to, you know, continue being in the training
06:20program. Otherwise, I'll be eliminated. Hmm. So, so I had to make a very tough decision, whether to go
06:26for it or just to drop the whole idea of even thinking of climbing Mount Everest. Hmm.
06:30And I made my choice to go for it because I told myself, if I don't try, if I don't try,
06:39I will probably be regretting for the rest of my life that I could have made it if only
06:43I had tried. Right. So I decided that day that, you know, I'm, I'm going to give, I'm going
06:50to go all out and I'm going to give my best. Right. And I started training, uh, extremely
06:56hard. Hmm. And, uh, of course, uh, uh, we had to go through many phases of training sessions
07:05locally and also abroad. Right. And, and, uh, skill training, uh, hiking, just to keep
07:11up with the, with the altitude. Hmm. So it was, it was, uh, it was, uh, two and a half
07:17years of full-time training. Yeah. So every time, you know, the, every, uh, month there
07:21will be this, uh, screening, you know, uh, physical fitness test. Hmm. And I was doing
07:26better. Hmm. I was doing better. And I, I, I could see the list is becoming smaller and
07:31smaller and smaller until there were only about 35 members left. Some, some gave up
07:36not because they could not keep up with the training program, but because of other commitments.
07:40Okay. They were good. In fact, many of them were much, much more experienced than me.
07:45You know, I am sitting there as a person who has only climbed the highest was Mount Kinabalu
07:49at the time. Hmm. But there were others, uh, who have been to, who had already tracked in
07:54Nepal. So they know the terrain, they know the, the weather condition, you know, in Nepal,
08:00they know what life is in, in the mountains in Nepal. So they were, they were actually
08:04very much experienced. Hmm. So, and I'm sitting there with them, trying to compete with them.
08:10So when they speak, they can speak a whole lot of, uh, mountain stories than me. Right.
08:16Right. So. A bit more experience. Yes. They didn't climb Everest, but they've been close.
08:21At least they have been to the base camp, you know, at the time. Right. So, um, I had to
08:27work extra hard. And that's, that's what I did. And, and to work extra hard, I need to
08:31sacrifice a lot of things. Hmm. All right. So I had to put in a lot of hours, many, many
08:37hours in training just to keep up. And, uh, I was lucky because I was with the government.
08:44So it was easier for me and I was teaching at the time. So I only work half day. So, so
08:50I could start training my, uh, I could start my training much earlier.
08:54Can I ask what were you teaching? English language, English language, and also physical
09:00education at the time. In a secondary school? In a primary school. In a primary school.
09:04That is a challenging job already. Yeah. Right. So I had, uh, a lot of, uh, free time to
09:11concentrate on my training. Hmm. So, so, so many gave up because of commitments, other
09:16commitments. So you had to continue the teaching while you were training. Yes, that's right.
09:20So, so, so I used to travel to Kuala Lumpur. Right. From Klang, uh, at least three times
09:26a week. Right. To be with my other friends to train at the clubhouse. Right. Uh, and, and
09:31during the weekends, we will, uh, we will get together and we will start tracking. Hmm.
09:35Tracking. We will climb Gunung Nuang. We'll go, you know, to Saramban and we'll go to Rambau.
09:40We'll climb Gunung Dato. Hmm. You know, just to, just to, uh, we, we need to maintain
09:46our stamina. We need to maintain, you know, our muscular strength, cardiovascular endurance.
09:52Hmm. We need to do all that. Other, otherwise we cannot go on training. You know, it's, it's,
09:57it's actually tough and vigorous. Yeah. So that's what we have been doing. And, uh, uh,
10:03every, every time when we go through this fitness, uh, training program, you know, you know,
10:07the, the, the fitness level has been increasing and increasing. Besides that, we have, uh, also
10:13been given a chance to travel abroad and climb mountains in New Zealand and in India. Initial,
10:20our initial trainings were all in India. Our first, even my first snow and ice, uh, climbing
10:27exposure was also in India, the Northern part of India. Right. So we have been to India several
10:32times to New Zealand once to, uh, train, uh, skills as well as to get used to the weather,
10:39the, the, the, the ice, the snow. How long was the training process? Two and a half years. Two
10:45and a half years. Two and a half years. So as, as, as we were preparing, the list became
10:50shorter and shorter. And, um, uh, finally on the 28th day of December, 1996, the sports
10:58minister then, uh, at the time announced the final 10 climbers who will take up the Malaysia
11:03Everest 97 challenge. Right. So when my name was mentioned, I was already standing on the
11:07summit of Mount Everest. That's how it felt. Yes. Because the, you know, it was, uh, it
11:12was two and a half years of agony. Wow. You know, it, the, the, the training part of it
11:17and the selection process. Right. Uh, that was the first Everest you climbed to get to be
11:23able to climb Everest. So of course I, I, I had my, uh, limitations earlier. I, I doubted,
11:30but then I put that aside and I started training. Uh, just like what I mentioned earlier, I just
11:36don't want to regret a letter, you know, it is okay if I don't make it. At least I've
11:41tried. Yeah. That's the thing that I want to have in my, in me. Right. Where was another
11:46moment during that whole process that you thought, you know, a, a big moment that you
11:52thought, I may not be able to do that. Was there a point in the middle of it all where
11:57you thought maybe, maybe I can't, or were you so focused that that never came into your
12:01mind? You see, um, uh, we were actually training, uh, we were told that, you know, we are going
12:09to climb Mount Everest. Right. So there's, there's a long history behind this. Um, back
12:16in 1983, back in 1983, a group of Malaysians, uh, they, with the, with some funding from
12:24the Ministry of Youth and Sports, they went over to Nepal and climbed a mountain called
12:27Mount Kalapatha. Okay. So Mount Kalapatha is actually at the base of, uh, uh, Mount Everest
12:32and, and the, the, the peak of Mount Kalapatha is about the same height with the Everest base
12:38camp. Right. So 16 members, uh, went there to climb this mountain and out of this 16, 12
12:46summited Mount Kalapatha. Okay. On the 11th day of January 1984. 84. Right. So, and then
12:52they came back to Malaysia with a vision that is to form a Malaysian mountaineering
12:58association and to, uh, prepare a team to climb Mount Everest 10 years from then. Right.
13:05Okay. That, that, that, that's how the whole thing started. That long ago. Right. So when
13:09this group of Malaysians came back to Kuala Lumpur, they formed the Malaysian mountaineering
13:13association in 1984. And from then on, they have been working towards realizing the
13:18Malaysia Everest dream. All right. And in 1988, the association signed a memorandum of
13:26understanding with the ministry within sports to jointly undertake Malaysia Everest 97 project.
13:30Right. All right. And, and up and up and some, uh, deposit was paid to the, uh, ministry
13:39of tourism Nepal to book a slot to climb Mount Everest in 1997. So that was a deadline. Yeah.
13:45That was a deadline. Yeah. So in 1988, a sum was already paid. Right. To the Nepal government
13:51to climb Mount Everest in 1997. Right. Okay. So, and, and from then on, uh, the association
13:58members, I was not there yet. I was not even in the picture at the time. So from then on,
14:03they have been trying to, uh, get fundings to, to, to, to get this project going. Because of
14:13course they, you know, the ministry has given the green light, but the ministry cannot support
14:18100%. Right. So they, they want the association to also get committed to the project and somehow
14:25look for fundings. Yeah. Right. So, uh, we were actually training when, when the project started
14:31in 1994, uh, we were training, but we weren't sure at the time that whether this project will
14:38even materialize. Right. Sometimes we get some fund and we use the fund to go for some training
14:43and then, and then, and then we have to wait for some more funding from, uh, either private sector
14:48or sponsorships. Right. So it was like, eh, jadi kata jadi? Jadi kata jadi? Right. Even while you
14:55were actually already training? Yeah. Wow. Even, even when we were training. So we, we, and then,
15:00and then, uh, uh, uh, we got some funding from some, some sectors. Uh, we went to India
15:06for our very first, uh, snow and ice climbing experience. Uh, we were there, we were there
15:11in the mountains for about 30, uh, a month, 30 days. Uh, we came back and we had to do local
15:17training because, uh, to, to go for the next overseas training, we don't have money. Right.
15:22So that's how it was for some time until, until, uh, uh, early 1996 when the Ministry
15:30of Youth and Sports stepped in and they pumped in the money. Right. For us to continue, continue
15:36training. And only then, yes, we are climbing Mount Everest now. And that was just a year
15:41before the actual climb and things were confirmed for real. Yes, that's right. That you were
15:47actually, wow. So up till that moment, you were still. Yeah, we are training. Yeah. Spending
15:50so much money on our own. Yeah. And, and training, but we weren't sure in the beginning
15:55that whether the, the project is going to take place. And you've been training so hard
15:59for years. Yes, yes. For years up to that point. Right. And people would think that the
16:04toughest thing about climbing Mount Everest initially would be the training itself. But
16:09for you, it was whether you'd be able to even get there ultimately because you weren't
16:12sure about the, but it's going to take the takeoff or not in the first place. Yeah. But
16:15of course, history has showed now that you did do it. Right. You're the first
16:19Malaysian to summit Everest. And you know, when you did it, right, in those first few
16:24moments of standing there on top of the world, what thoughts or emotions were like going through
16:31your head? Was it purely just happiness? Or was it also like this feeling of, oh, I'm
16:36the first Malaysian. Does this mean that there's so much weight on my shoulders now? What did
16:40you feel when you were standing there? It was a moment of truth. Right. It was, of course,
16:45the joyous moment, not only for me, but for the team, for the entire Malaysian people. Yeah.
16:51All right. So we were told that, you know, the final moments will be televised life.
16:57Televised life on TV and the public is going to be glued to the TV. Yeah. Glued to the TV
17:04because 30 years ago, 28 years ago, we never had this digital technology yet. All right.
17:11Not even, uh, phone, uh, Android, Android and whatnot. So everything is, you know, by, by
17:18today's standard, uh, quite primitive. Yeah. Right. So people had to, uh, you know, watch
17:27the television, television to get the news. Yeah. Right. So, uh, so it was, you know, and,
17:34and, uh, the moment when I was, when I reached the summit, I reached the summit, I just pulled
17:41out my walkie talkie because as, as, as I was climbing towards the summit, you know, uh, we,
17:47we had our oxygen masks, you know, that, that, that covered, uh, my face and then with the
17:53goggles. Right. So, uh, there, there is no way of me talking to anybody. Right. Right.
18:00So it's, it's, uh, I'm talking about, uh, uh, at least 12 hours of climbing. Yeah. The
18:06last 800 meters from camp four to the summit is 12 hours at 12 and a half hours of climbing
18:11in silence. So, so you can imagine the amount of things that was playing in my mind while
18:19I'm just climbing and breathing. All I could hear was my, my breath, you know, uh, so, so
18:26I was climbing and I was thinking of everything that I have went through to be there. Yeah.
18:32You know, that was the final day of the climb and I'm there climbing. I was thinking of my
18:38family members. I was thinking about my students at school because I, I, I like my students every
18:44now and I leave, I leave them every now and then because of my training. Yeah. Because
18:48besides my, my training outside schooling hours, working hours, you know, we also have to
18:54go abroad and train. Yeah. So sometimes a month, a month and a half. So this was what
19:01was going through your mind. Yeah. So unrecorded leaves. Yeah. Uh, you know, and then my students
19:06will, you know, that sort of thing. You know, that sort of thing. So, uh, and, and, and I,
19:16I used to talk to them about, about hard work, about how not to give up, you know, those sort
19:22of things. So now that I'm climbing, uh, uh, two of my friends who are supposed to be with
19:28us have given up, you know, due to health reasons. So, and I'm climbing there, uh, and
19:33my partner, Dato Mohan is, is probably 50 meters, uh, at the back of me. I'm climbing towards
19:39the summit. Uh, the, the, the, the, the, my team member, the other team members are at
19:44the base camp, you know, with their walkie talkies, anxiously waiting to get, you know,
19:48to, to, to get some good news. All right. And, but I can hear them because we all had
19:53our walkie talkies, you know, our personal walkie talkies, and I could hear them speaking.
19:57Uh, there was a radio base at camp two. There was a, you know, and, and, and base camp. So
20:02they were communicating. They said, uh, eh, Mac ni kamana, Mohan ni kamana. You know, uh, they
20:08are not, they are not responding. So we do not know exactly where they are. So what's the
20:13condition? So there was another, uh, group of climbers at camp two, you know, they were
20:18meant, they were actually at, uh, uh, taking care of the radios, radio base at, at camp
20:23two at 6,500 meters above sea level. So, so that I could hear them speaking and they,
20:30and they were also, uh, motivating us. Don't give up. You know, you can do this. You can,
20:35we can do Malaysia Boleh and whatnot. So I was climbing and I was thinking about all this.
20:40And then I also know that the, uh, the, uh, uh, our ministers, you know, who supported
20:46us. Yeah. Uh, uh, uh, he's also there in Kuala Lumpur waiting, waiting there in front
20:52of the TV in a big screen in RTM. Yeah. All that is happening. I can only imagine, you
20:56know, uh, how all this is going through your mind there at the top. Like, wow. I was
21:01because, because I was, you know, it was in silence. We are climbing in silence. A lot of
21:05things that was, you know, I, I must somehow, uh, make it to the summit. And I was also
21:11chanting my prayers at the same time, just to make sure that, you know, I will be okay.
21:16All right. So as soon as I reached the summit, you know, tears just rolled down. I pulled
21:20out my walkie talkie. You know, I just informed, uh, the climb, uh, climbing leader, major
21:27reason who was stationed at camp two at the time that I am talking from the summit of Mount
21:33Everest. So he congratulated me, tears rolled down and I could hear, uh, a major reason
21:39actually, uh, relaying the message because the people at the base camp could not hear
21:43me. Right. Sometimes because of a strong wind, they cannot hear. That is the reason
21:48why we even had a radio base at camp two. Yeah. So I could hear major reason relaying
21:53the message, Max sudah sampai puncak, Max sudah sampai puncak. Yeah. All right. So I could
21:57hear them, uh, screaming. So it was, it was a joyous moment. Yeah. Uh, not only for
22:03me, for the team, for, for the people of Malaysia, but it was not just that. Remember
22:08your very first question, uh, about Malaysia Boleh? So it's, it's, it's, it's about
22:12that, you know, it's about, uh, the, the struggle that we went through just to
22:19everything that you've been through. Yeah. Just to get to the peak. And it's not just
22:23me and my team, but it is a message, a clear message to the people of
22:29Malaysia, you know, uh, what the success meant. Yeah. You know, in a bigger scale,
22:34in a bigger picture. Right. So not only that, uh, I also informed major that, you
22:40know, Dato Mohan will, you know, be joining me. It's, it's already on the way and he
22:46should be reaching the summit anytime. And, and then, uh, the other thing that sat
22:51into my mind was, uh, this is only half the battle. Yeah. It's only half the
22:56battle. You know, it's not, the, the game is not over. It'll go down, is it? So we
23:00have to get down. We have to get down to actually celebrate. Yeah. Because if you
23:05look at the statistics, uh, of success or, or, or the statistics of, of failures and,
23:12um, accidents, right? Mishaps. Most accidents that happen on the way down, not on the way.
23:19Oh, okay. So we have to be extremely careful because we are already exhausted. Right.
23:24After 12 and a half hours of climbing, we are exhausted and, uh, we have to get down
23:30to the safety of base camp. So we have to be careful, uh, not to, uh, not to make any
23:36mistakes because mistakes at that altitude can be fatal. So that's what happened. And,
23:42uh, you know, after spending about an hour on the summit, so we, and then, uh, Mohan
23:47was there with me for 45 minutes and together we went down and it took us about another six
23:51hours to get down to Camp 4. Right. To, to, and where, uh, my other two friends, Gary and
23:59Fauzan, late Fauzan. Yeah. Uh, they were there at the tent and, you know, as soon as I reached
24:04the tent, I was so exhausted that I could not even remove my shoelaces. So they had to help
24:10me remove the shoelace and I just, I just pulled, I went into my sleeping bag and that's
24:17it. I was, you know, I was gone. Knocked out. Knocked out. Wow. You deserve, that was a sleep
24:23that you definitely deserve. That's right. You know, hearing you talk about it is so inspiring
24:28as well to hear what you went through to get to that point. And I'm sure during the climb,
24:33whether it was the ascent or the descent, there were many moments or there were some moments
24:38where they were incredibly, you felt maybe vulnerable or there were moments that was
24:43scary. What was the moment that stands out that makes you feel, uh, that that could have
24:49been a moment that you may not have achieved what you wanted? You see the, the journey from
24:56base camp all the way to the summit and back was vulnerable. It was something that we have
25:01never experienced before. Although we have climbed mountains in New Zealand and in India,
25:05right. But climbing Everest, especially from base camp to us, to the summit and back was
25:11totally different. Yeah. And, uh, uh, uh, we could have just died anywhere to be honest.
25:19Right. Because we have, yes, we have seen climbers just, uh, we, we have seen climbers died in
25:26the sleep at the base camp. You know, the first day he was there at our, uh, base camp tent, you
25:33know, uh, having a chat. Uh, and then the next day he was not there, he was gone. And then we heard
25:39and, uh, uh, a British, uh, climber, British expedition leader, Malcolm Dove, his name.
25:45All right. Uh, so he did not wake up in the morning. He, he vomited. Uh, that's what I heard.
25:50He vomited. He choked and, uh, he was gone. So, uh, people have died while, uh, maneuvering
25:57through the Kumbu Ice Fall. Kumbu Ice Fall is, is, is, is a block of ice that they need
26:02to navigate through from, uh, and it is situated between base camp and camp one. It is one of
26:08the most dangerous, uh, part of the mountain, section of the mountain where many climbers fall
26:14to their death. Uh, you know, so, and, and this, uh, this giant ice blocks, you know, they are like
26:21ever shifting. Right. It's ever shifting. It is shifting downwards, uh, you know, because of the
26:26gravity. Because you can't track the same route. Yeah. Yeah. So every time when we cross this Kumbu
26:32Ice Fall, you know, the, the path is slightly different because there, there are a group of
26:37Sherpas. Uh, they are called the Ice Fall Doctors. Uh, you know, they are assigned to mend the route
26:43through the ice fall throughout the expedition. So every time when we cross the ice fall, you know,
26:49it is slightly different. Sometimes, you know, the gap between the ice blocks will closed or sometimes
26:54it, it opens up and becomes wider. So, uh, that's, and, and, uh, towards our very last attempt before,
27:03you know, before submitting, uh, we, uh, the four of us, the five of us, we were actually crossing
27:10uh, one section of the Kumbu Ice Fall and, uh, we were, we were just, you know, we were, we just
27:15missed, you know, a, a falling ice block. You know, it just, just fell. It like collapsed or fell
27:21from up there? It just collapsed. It just collapsed. Wow. You know, we, and we just turned back. Wow.
27:24We were, we were there just seconds ago. You know? It could have been, that could have been it.
27:29Yes. We could have been there. It is just that we were lucky. And, uh, that's one section. So,
27:35there are many sections along, along the way towards the summit that are very dangerous.
27:40Mm-hmm. Like, uh, there is this, after Camp 1, towards Camp 2, there's this place called
27:48Western Kumbu. They call it the Valley of Silence. There are many crevasses there. And we need to,
27:54at one, at one look, you know, it's just a plain ice field, but actually there are hundreds of crevasses
28:00that we need to cross. Mm-hmm. And sometimes we can't see the crack. The crevasses are the cracks.
28:04Right. All right. Deep cracks. Yes. Okay. We can't see because of heavy snowfall. You know,
28:10the snow will form a bridge. Mm-hmm. It's like a snow bridge. So, it looks just like it's covered.
28:14It's covered. All right. Sometimes if we step on it, it can, the ice bridge can just collapse,
28:19and we can go down. So, that's why we need to be roped up. Right. And there was a time when the ice
28:23bridge collapsed and I fell in. But since I was anchored, I was, you know, I was, uh, I was using this
28:31safety rope. Mm-hmm. You know, I just fell just above the, I was just venting a little bit. Right.
28:36But, but, uh, that caused a great pain to my left knee. Right. I thought that I, I broke my leg,
28:43but luckily I didn't. Wow. Right. So, when I was climbing towards the summit, I had my left knee wrapped
28:49up with bandage. Mm-hmm. Right. So, so these are the things, uh, the, the danger that we have to face.
28:55And then, uh, from camp two to camp three, this is, uh, the, the, the section is called the Lodsi face.
29:00Mm-hmm. Lodsi face is exposed to, uh, avalanches. Mm-hmm. And we have to camp there. Mm-hmm.
29:07Okay. On, on, on, on this, uh, very hard ice. Right. On, on, on the, on the face. And then,
29:15after, after camp three, it's the, it's camp four. Camp four is also known as south call. Mm-hmm.
29:20It's the, it's the saddle between the two highest mountains. Okay. Mount Everest and the fourth
29:25highest mountain in the world, Mount Lodsi. Mm-hmm. The saddle between the two mountain,
29:29that is called the south, uh, the, the camp four is, is, is established there, and it is called the
29:33south call. Right. And that is already the dead zone. They call it the dead zone. And, uh, as soon as we reach
29:41camp four, uh, it is, uh, we, we cannot, like, uh, recover. Uh, we cannot recover and recuperate. Okay. So,
29:50we have to, uh, spend as little time as possible above camp four and try to, uh, go for,
29:58You have to move forward. Move forward. Okay. Reach the summit and get out of there as quickly as
30:03possible. Right. All right. So, and of course, from camp four all the way towards the summit,
30:07it is very highly exposed to jet streams, uh, blizzards because so exposed and we are already on
30:14the knife edge reach towards the summit. So, each section of the mountain, you know, can be,
30:19can be extremely dangerous and we have seen many climbers have perished. Right. Uh, before,
30:25before. So, it's hard to point out one particular instance because you're constantly in harm's way.
30:31There's constantly danger lurking around every corner. Exactly. It's lurking everywhere. You
30:36mentioned two specific ones already. Yeah. Like, one where the ice fell just where you were at
30:41moments ago and at another point you had actually fallen through an ice bridge which had collapsed under
30:47you and you were just lucky and fortunate enough to be using safety equipment that you were safe.
30:52That's right. And even then, you still injured your, your leg and had bound, had a bound knee
30:57to make it to the summit. You know, Dr. Mak, you're so well known for being the first Malaysian
31:05to summit Everest, but you're not just that. You're more than that. You're a man, you're a father,
31:11you're a full human being, right? How have your prolonged expeditions, you know, mountaineering
31:19shaped your relationship at home? And what, like, conversations have you had with your family that
31:25stand out with you when it comes to, because you, you've grown a family along with this
31:30amazing life that you've had as a mount, as a climber as well, right? So, what, what are those
31:35conversations like to make sure that you have a strong family as well? Of course, I, I share a lot
31:40of this every story to my family members, especially my wife and three children, right? So, the happy
31:47moments, the sad moments, but mostly the values, the values. Of course, the, they, they all know the joyous
31:56moment. Okay. That's, that's the 23rd day of May, 1997, when we reached the top and, and the 3rd June, 1997,
32:05when we returned to Malaysia and we were greeted by more than 5,000 people at the airport. So, I think
32:15to date, no other sporting team have ever had that many fans and supporters waiting for the team to
32:24return at, you know, at the airport. So, that was, it was organized by the government. You know, we had
32:31lion dance, we had this Indian classical music, we had Kompang groups, you know, cheering, cheering
32:39our return. So, these are some of the, the happiest moment that we have seen, that I have shared with
32:45them. But besides that, the, the hardship that we went through, the struggle that we went through,
32:50the, the Sherpa we lost. You know, we lost one Sherpa while we were attempting to climb on Everest.
32:58Right. So, that, that was our first attempt. The first, our first attempt failed. We lost one
33:04Sherpa. And, and, and then later, we successfully submitted Everest during our second, second attempt.
33:11Right. Right. Right. So, that, that sad story. And, of course, there were four of us at the final stage
33:20of the climb and two could not make it. So, these, these are the things, these are the things that,
33:26that I used to share with my children and, and the lesson, most importantly, the lesson. Right.
33:31Right. Uh, hard work pays off. Yeah. You know, anything can be achieved as long as we, we, we, we, we are
33:38working on it wholeheartedly. Yeah. How many children do you have now? Three. Three. Three. And how old are their
33:43ages? My eldest one is, uh, 26. My second daughter, my eldest son, 26. My second daughter, 25. Yeah. And my
33:51youngest son is 20. Have any of them shown an interest in wanting to also, you know, conquer mountains?
33:59Um, I do not know whether it is right to say conquer mountains, but, uh, my, my second son,
34:07the last one, he's 20 now. And, uh, he is showing interest in, uh, auto activities. And last November,
34:13we climbed Mount Kinabalu together. Father and son. Yes, that's right. How did that feel for you to
34:18be on that journey? Yeah. I have climbed Mount Kinabalu, uh, many times. But, but, but, uh,
34:24last November was something special. Hmm. You know, I have, um, guided many students. Yeah.
34:31Hundreds of students up Mount Kinabalu since 1999 up to last year. And last year when I had my own,
34:38uh, you know, with, with the team of other students, uh, you know, it was somewhat very special. Yeah.
34:44Yeah. Right. Do you feel that, is there a part of you that steers your children to try this activity
34:52or do you leave it up to them to decide whether it's something? Yeah. I left it to them. Yeah.
34:57You said that you have to have the passion. Yeah. You have to have it. You have to have it here
35:01in your mind. Yeah. I cannot just force you to do things. Right. And what does your wife think about
35:07this, this life that you have, that this, this adventurous life that you have? Is she a part of
35:14the adventure as well? Family life? How does that play? Uh, she, she supports. Yeah. She supports.
35:19She never says no. Whenever I plan on, on a climbing trip. Yeah. All right. She never says no. Um,
35:26but she will always insist that, you know, you should also expose your children. Hmm. That's what I'm
35:30doing now. That's what I'm doing now. At least now, uh, my little one is, uh, already into it. And yeah.
35:36Yeah. And, and he wants to do more. Hmm. Yeah. You know, nowadays you, I'm sure you've noticed
35:42among the youth, there's, um, bouldering is becoming quite popular. You see these rock
35:47climbing, um, activities happening in malls. They set up rock walls and they climb these
35:54rock walls. It's not quite the same as, um, climbing a mountain. This is more of a, a different
36:00possible skillset. But do you, do you think that this itself, this popularity of bouldering,
36:06does it appeal to young climbers and inspire them then to climb mountains as well? Do you
36:12think this is a natural progression for that? Yeah. Since, uh, we can't go into the jungle,
36:16uh, to climb the natural wall. So we do it at the, at the clubhouse or shopping complexes
36:22where we have these, um, uh, climbing walls. Right. Right. Climbing walls. So, uh, it's, it's,
36:30it's, um, it's a good exercise to, to enhance our climbing skills, you know, to strengthen
36:36our, uh, fine muscles. Uh, you know. Right. So you're actually excited about this. Like,
36:43this is something that brings you joy to see more people. Yeah. It is also about, uh, rope
36:47management, the, the, the usage of safety equipments, you know. So, so, uh, it gives us
36:53the edge to use these climbing gears. Yeah. When, when we, when we climb wall and, you
36:59know, uh, the balance, you know, to the balancing act. Yeah. All that, all that. Because it, it
37:04actually strengthen the fine muscles. Hmm. You know, sometimes we need to, there'll be
37:09a, a fine, uh, uh, hand hole. You know, there will be, sometimes there will be, we, we, we,
37:15we need to use only two fingers to pull ourselves up, you know, when, when we're climbing
37:20these walls. Right. So, uh, so. So it's a great training. Like, it's, it's a very good
37:25training. You probably look at these people, these youth climbing walls, and it fills you
37:28with a bit of, like, excitement knowing that, wow, these could be people who would be making
37:33that next step as well. That's right. It, it, it is very different from climbing mountains,
37:37but these are the added skills that we need, you know, to develop. Yeah. Uh, to be a better
37:43climber. Right. And, I mean, it goes without saying, you are a very, very experienced, um,
37:49climber as someone who has seen like the highest and among the highest points in Malaysia and
37:55the world, right? How do you envision the future? Well, when you look forward, how do
38:00you picture Malaysian mountaineering from youth engagement and training to balancing commerce
38:06as well? Because we need to, I mean, it needs to be monetarily viable as well with conservation,
38:12right? You want to do well, you want it to be popular, but you want the conservation efforts
38:17to be maintained? What role do you see yourself playing in, in this move, this journey forward?
38:25Right. See, the future is now, right? When you say envision, but it is, this is the future.
38:33Right. When we climbed Everest 20, 20, 28 years ago, you know, as I mentioned to you earlier,
38:39uh, there were a handful of people, uh, exploring the jungles, right? Not many people. It wasn't
38:49popular at all. But after the climb, after the successful climb, uh, we went around on a road
38:56show to every state, uh, there, there were states without association. So we helped form
39:02associations. Some states already had climbing associations. I mean, mountaineering associations,
39:06state level associations. So that was developed. And then now, if you, if you see there are hundreds
39:13of climbing clubs, private, uh, hiking groups, the many, and, and, and climbing and hiking has become
39:21a lifestyle. And we have at least 29 Malaysians who have climbed the Mount Everest. Yeah. And,
39:30and, uh, there are, uh, others who have climbed the other 8,000 meter peaks. If you know, there are
39:36eight, there are 14 mountains, which are more than 8,000 meters in height. Right. 14 mountains.
39:42They call it the big 14. And Malaysians have already started climbing some of these mountains.
39:47Right. The second highest mountain K2 in Pakistan has been climbed by Malaysians. Uh, Mount Lodse has
39:52been climbed and a few other Manaslu, Choyu. These are the 8,000 meter peaks, which has been
39:57climbed by Malaysians. You know, they are not only looking at Mount Everest, but they are also looking
40:02at climbing other mountains as well. There are Malaysians who have climbed all the seven
40:06highest mountain in the seven continents. I think we have got two so far. Wow. Two so
40:11far. So this is the future. Uh, climbing is one thing, you know, uh, the other thing is
40:19of course, uh, conservation, conservation, uh, preserving the biodiversity of the mountains.
40:25More and more people are, uh, climbing, not only locally, but also abroad. Uh, did, this
40:32has also brought great concern. Right. Uh, about, about, uh, ecotourism, uh, about waste
40:39management. Right. Uh, there were also articles about, about Mount Everest, then the amount of
40:45climbers climbing Mount Everest and, you know, and the amount of waste that are being left on
40:50the mountain. Yeah. All right. Uh, so, uh, if we don't manage properly, uh, it is, it
40:58is going to be a huge problem. All right. So, but of course, when you say the future is
41:03now, that makes sense. Everything that you think, uh, when you, when you, that you think
41:08you'll be doing in the future, you're actually already doing it now. All the efforts are
41:11happening now. All the, um, right. All the efforts, you're already involved in them now
41:17as well. You're already doing what you want to be doing. Exactly. Very recently, very
41:21recently, I think about a few weeks ago, there was already an article I read about, uh, the
41:26state of Selangor. They have already implemented permits to climb any, any of the mountains,
41:31uh, uh, within the state. Yeah. Uh, it is no more like, you know, you can just, uh, drive,
41:38drive to a, uh, to a foothill, park your car and start climbing. You cannot do that anymore.
41:42You need to apply a permit online. Right. So that works for safety as well.
41:47Exactly. Exactly. Because then people will know, authorities will know who, who is out
41:52there. Sometimes people take these mountains and forests for granted. You know, they think
41:56that they can just go in and come out as they wish. But then we have, uh, seen, uh, people
42:02get lost, you know, and their bodies are found days later. So these are already happening.
42:07So to make sure that, uh, you know, uh, the public, the people, the, the hikers, the nature
42:14levels, uh, getting, go, go into the mountains safely and back safely. So measures needs to
42:21be taken and it is being taken. Yeah. It is being taken by the forest department and the
42:26authorities, uh, to manage, to, to control and manage, uh, the ecosystem.
42:32And you are already highlighting it now as well. So thank you so much for also being a part of this
42:38and making sure that you highlight the issues that need to be brought forth because as the first
42:44Malaysian to summit Everest, I think hearing it from you makes it even more important and it has,
42:51it carries more weight. Now we're coming to the final close, closing in the final part of this,
42:56we're going to go into the rapid fire questions. Okay. So this way we ask you the question and you answer
43:01what comes to mind right now. Okay. That means for this moment, this is what you're thinking about
43:06in the future, maybe you might change your mind. So whatever comes to mind. Okay. When you're at
43:10base camp, tea or coffee? Tea. Tea. Okay. Um, do you prefer group climb or solo track? Group climb. Group climb.
43:17Group climb. Okay. Biggest mountain fear, is it heights or weather? Both. Both. I believe, I believe you
43:24because you have a hundred times more experience than me or maybe more. In fact, um, Kinabalu sunrise
43:31or Everest sunrise? More spectacular. Definitely. Everest sunrise. Right. But, but I, I, I would say even
43:38Kinabalu sunrise is spectacular. Amazing also. Yeah. Right. Now what's your next big goal? Climb a new peak
43:44or new conservation project? Both. Both. Yeah. So they're already, I'm guessing this is something
43:48that's going to be happening already. Yes. Okay. Um, summit moment or base camp celebrations,
43:55which is more unforgettable? Both. Both. Because, uh, summiting is, uh, summiting is the ultimate,
44:04but it is only half the battle. You know, I, because we have seen climbers
44:09summiting successfully, but they failed to return to the base camp. Oh, wow. Two years ago,
44:15that's what happened to one of our malaysian. Yes. Right. The first, uh, uh, uh, deaf and mute
44:20climber. Yeah. He successfully submitted, but, uh, he just perished. Yeah. And, uh, even, even this
44:27year, you know, the, there was a team at the base camp, uh, trying to locate. This remains. Right.
44:35So, and, and the government has already spent more than a million ringgit. Right. On, uh, uh, search and
44:41rescue operation. Yeah. To locate. So, these are the things that can happen. So, summiting,
44:46of course, it's the ultimate, but it is only half the battle. And being back to the base camp
44:53for a victory, welcoming, that's another awesome, awesome, you know, uh, moment. You make it so much
45:01more relatable because you've had that experience. Yes, that's right. Yourself. Yeah. And this final
45:07question we have for you, we ask our guests all the time is, imagine this, if you had the opportunity
45:13to make one change as prime minister of Malaysia for one day, what would that change be and why?
45:21I think I will make education equal for each and every Malaysian. All right. Of course, uh, primary
45:28and secondary is already, uh, for all Malaysians, but after SPM, I will, I will, uh, probably make a policy
45:36to make sure that education, tertiary education is, is, is equal, equal for every Malaysian. Simply
45:44because education is the fundamental basic thing for human development, human capital. And when,
45:52when they have that, we don't, the government don't have to be worrying about subsidies as, you know,
45:58once they leave, uh, education, when they start working, we don't have to be worrying about
46:03subsidies, subsidy Sydney, you know, you, you know, we don't have to worry because when we give them the
46:09basics, when we give them the tool to survive, then they will be able to survive and we don't have to be
46:14worrying about subsidies or how, how, how to find ways and means to, give them the tools to build their life.
46:21Yes. Right. So the only tool is education. Yeah. So give them the best. If they are good, give it to them.
46:28Wow. Don't deprive them from, you know, their basic rights. Yeah. That's what I think. And as an educator
46:32yourself, you were a teacher for a very, very long time. I mean, that, that is the truth coming to you.
46:40Someone who has seen kids come through your classrooms and seen the difference that education can make if
46:46they can experience that all the way through tertiary. Yeah, that's right. Because if they are less
46:50skillful, they are less skillful, they are less educated, you know, they are struggling their entire life
46:55and the government has to think of a way to support them all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for giving
47:00us more to think about actually, right? In terms of education, in terms of achieving goals, in terms of
47:07success. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me here today and you're most
47:12welcome. Absolutely. With us today, of course, has been Dato Mak or Dato Magendran, who is the first
47:19Malaysian to Summit Everest here on Life Confessions and make sure you join us for our next episode as well.
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