00:00thank you very much have been with us on the ground in the Gaza Strip this Thursday the
00:13killing of Palestinians by the Israeli army continues this week the policies of Benjamin
00:18Netanyahu in Gaza were qualified as a genocide by the international genocide scholars adding
00:24a reasoned assessment to what others have been saying very loudly for almost three years dissent
00:30inside Israel has made Prime Minister Netanyahu hit out at protesters who were demanding an end
00:36to the war in Gaza he's branded them as this is the word that he used fascists as families of the
00:43remaining Israeli hostages held by Hamas rallied near his home Netanyahu claimed the ongoing mass
00:48demonstrations against his government were destructive and threatening and had crossed
00:53every boundary he said that now then facing ever-growing pressure from the tireless movement
00:58to end the war and bring the hostages back but the government and military determined it seems to
01:03go ahead with a full-scale ground invasion of the north of the Gaza Strip and don't forget of course
01:10it's been declared around Gaza City that that is now a zone affected by famine here at France 24
01:17the boiling anger towards Benjamin Netanyahu and his government continues on Wednesday thousands of
01:28Israelis marched in a new day of protest amid fears the military's next steps in Gaza could put the remaining
01:35Israeli hostages in danger they marched near the Prime Minister's residence in Jerusalem prompting Netanyahu to go on
01:43the attack you talk about democracy but you speak and act exactly like fascists they threatened day
01:53after day to murder me the Prime Minister and my family they've also said they would surround my home with a ring
02:00of fire just like fascist militias families of the hostages 22 of whom are believed to be alive in Gaza were outraged
02:10I heard that the Prime Minister has just issued a statement to the media that he fears for his life
02:18I want to remind him that we fear for the lives of my son Matan of Ghali and Ziv Berman of Ram Braslavsky of Nimrod Cohen
02:33shame on you Prime Minister shame on you I will not let you bring my son back in a plastic bag this
02:42is a disgrace how can you watch him die and do nothing this is a holocaust it's on your watch
02:49but alongside those from the international community Israelis pleas and demands to end
02:56the war are falling on deaf ears the Israeli military is readying a full-scale ground offensive in northern Gaza with the aim
03:04of taking over Gaza City that's on top of the relentless bombardment and destruction the famine the almost 64,000
03:13Palestinians killed according to the Gaza health authorities none of it has brought the remaining Israeli hostages home
03:21that was Siobhan Silk with that report let's bring in some guests to give us some context on the situation
03:28joining us in the studio is Bertrand Bizancenot former French ambassador to Qatar and Saudi Arabia
03:34and we're joined from the flotilla destined for the Gaza Strip by James Smith who is a lecturer at UCL in London
03:42James great to see you there if you can bear with me I'm going to start with the former ambassador here in the studio
03:48because there is an issue involving diplomacy which we need to bring up with you and probably get your take on the situation
03:53Israel's Foreign Minister Gideon Sarr saying that any visit by Emmanuel Macron to Israel will be blocked stopped forbidden
04:02unless France drops Palestinian state recognition give us your reaction to that sir I think it is a ridiculous statement
04:10of course nobody's expecting that France would change its policy because you have this policy from some members of the Israeli government
04:18putting pressure or threats but of course this is not
04:24very very serious we know very well that there will be this month at the end of this month this conference on the solution of two states
04:34which is a joint initiative between Saudi Arabia and France and I think this is a unique opportunity to put in the mind of the people that the
04:45the quasi majority of all countries in the world are recognizing the state of Palestine and we have to rally the broadest possible coalition in order to make clear that there is no other solution that the solution of the world is not
05:01there is no other solution that the solution of two states we know that of course this is not acceptable to Mr Netanyahu and his government we know also that even the American government is apparently giving a free hand to Mr Netanyahu but at some point there will be a necessity to find a solution and there is no other solution than the solution of two states
05:30and this is why the Saudi French initiative is very important because we know that President Trump wants to have what he calls a coalition between Israel and the Gulf state in front of Iran and for that reason he find that it would be a priority it is a priority for his government to have the recognition of Israel by Saudi Arabia but the Saudis know that they have a key card in their hand and it is a priority for his government to have the recognition of Israel by Saudi Arabia
05:56but the Saudis know that they have a key card in their hand and of course the Prince Mohammed bin Salman who will be the next king of Saudi Arabia and as a guardian of the Holy Mosque wants to have something serious significant for the Palestinians
06:14the Palestinians so there will be at some point negotiation between the Americans and the Saudis on how to find a proper solution so it is important that we strengthen the Saudi hand in this negotiation by this initiative where it will be clear to everybody that the quasi majority of the world is in favor of this solution and the other option is not a real one
06:42it is even dangerous for the future of Israel so
06:46this this this I hear what you're saying and it does stack up and make sense if you analyze it in as a concept but
06:54Benjamin Netanyahu has consistently ignored calls to stop what has been going on and now it's finally it's classified as a genocide by international scholars but other people have been saying that for a long long time that this is genocide against the Palestinian people
07:09is there any further pressure that can be brought to bear on Benjamin Netanyahu to make this stop
07:15I know there are a discussion among the European states nowadays to put for example sanctions on ministers or on settlers who are violent in the in the in the West Bank
07:27or to suspend the association between the EU and Israel
07:34I'm not sure that even that will be seen as sufficient to the problem is that the only person who can really make a pressure on Netanyahu and Israel is of course President Trump
07:49because of course the Israel is depending a lot on the military and financial assistance of the US
07:58now so what is the more important is to convince President Trump that if he wants to have the big contracts in the Gulf if he want to if he wants to become one day a pre-nobel de la paix
08:13there are no other ways than to find a fair and durable solution on the Palestinian issue otherwise it won't work
08:22indeed he says he's sold seven walls or stop seven walls but if you analyze it he's not really stopped any of them for definite and he's made no impact in Ukraine
08:30he's making no impact on the situation in Gaza
08:32Mr Ambassador bear with me for a second I'll bring him from the flotilla in Katania in Italy James Smith James is a lecturer in humanitarian policy
08:40and practice at UCL in London James you're about to set off as I understand it I hope you have a safe voyage
08:47tell us about what the voyage is about tell us what you're hoping to achieve but most of all tell us where you think there could be some kind of impact
08:57made by this towards resolving what is going on in the Gaza Strip so over to you
09:02let me tell you a little bit about the flotilla and then I have a few reflections on what's just being said
09:08so we're talking here about approximately 50 boats participants from over 40 different countries
09:18approximately 500 people that are registered to participate
09:23and then of course tens of thousands internationally that have shown support in one way or another if not more of course
09:31this is the latest and the largest in a long line of civilian led flotilla initiatives that have attempted to break Israel's illegal siege on Gaza on the Gaza Strip
09:48this is a coalition of several citizen led initiatives civilian led initiatives
09:54I can see some of the footage there of some of the boats big and small that as I say are attempting to break the illegal siege
10:01bring humanitarian aid into Gaza but also demonstrate really what is politically possible
10:09I think the question we need to be asking ourselves as we look at this footage is why has it fallen to regular folks
10:17citizens from as I say 40 plus different countries to do the work of states which are legally and politically and of course morally obliged to do this work themselves
10:31to break Israel's illegal siege to force Israel to uphold its obligations under international law
10:39with respect to other pressure points
10:42I mean the EU Israel trade agreement you know Israel has been in breach of article 2 of the trade agreement the moment that it was signed
10:51this is the article that requires that Israel is compliant with its obligations and upholds human rights
10:59well of course this is an illegal occupation of Palestine so the moment that the agreement came into effect it was broken
11:06and still that that agreement is in place
11:09we have countries the world over the the British government my own government that have suspended fewer than 10% of their arms licenses with Israel
11:21we have now growing calls that that effectively are making very clear that European politicians American politicians
11:31in fact many politicians the world over are complicit
11:34and may well be held legally responsible for Israel's commission of atrocity crimes the atrocity crime of genocide in Gaza
11:44so it's now falling to regular folks citizens and civilians from the world over to take action and to take matters into their own hands
11:58as we as we say here when global leaders fail citizens of the world set sail
12:02and that's exactly what's happening now with with the flotilla
12:05what have you got on board supplies aid a lot of goodwill obviously
12:11a huge amount of goodwill political determination
12:14the the weight of compliance with international law behind us of course
12:20Francesca Albanese has been very clear that the flotilla adheres to international law
12:27and yes humanitarian aid food water medicines
12:31I joined the the last flotilla the Handala flotilla in Gallipoli a few weeks back and I was on the boat there
12:37this was a boat of course that was illegally boarded and intercepted in international waters
12:43the crew illegally detained and imprisoned in Israel before they were all eventually released
12:50and that was a boat that was carrying nappies medical equipment water and food
12:55you know what threat to Israel the nappies and food pose
13:02unless of course your objective is to intentionally starve a population
13:08and indeed that's what we're now seeing in Gaza
13:12the flotilla is not about the people on it
13:14it is about the conditions that Israel is imposing on the Palestinian people
13:18and those are the conditions of genocide and the conditions of famine
13:22and the conditions of ethnic cleansing
13:24James I'm meant to play devil's advocate and give you a counter argument but I can't
13:28thank you sir for joining us and explaining what is happening where you are
13:31safe journey to you I hope all goes well at sea
13:33and the flotilla gets to give the essential supplies to the people in need
13:38thank you James Smith lecturer in humanitarian policy and practice at UCL in London
13:42about to set sail for Gaza
13:44and thanks also to our guest here in the studio
13:47the former ambassador to Qatar and Saudi Arabia better on
13:52Bernon Senor
13:53thank you sir for your analysis and your thoughts on the diplomatic and other aspects of this story
14:00it's a pleasure to get to both sides so well expressed
14:03and we're of course watching for all developments as we can get them
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