- 3 months ago
On Thursday's edition of Zolak and Bertrand, the guys reacted to the Red Sox 3-2 win over the Baltimore Orioles last night. Following the team's continued success, the guys questioned whether or not the Red Sox are true World Series contenders.
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00:00Three-two winners yesterday. You just heard, sit down, Raffaella.
00:03Two-run home run in the ninth inning.
00:05Another dramatic win for the Boston Red Sox as they keep it rolling down in Baltimore.
00:10They'll look to complete the sweep this afternoon.
00:13I thought last night, though, Thundero, summed up this season as a whole perfectly.
00:18That was the Boston Red Sox of 2025 rolled up into one game.
00:23That was my big takeaway from that one.
00:25Don't let this team off the hook.
00:27Too many people are letting this team off the hook.
00:30I don't care that it's been fun.
00:33It has been fun.
00:34I'm enjoying some of these wins.
00:35Don't let them off the hook.
00:37I don't want them to be closer to what they used to be.
00:40I don't want them to dabble in what they used to be.
00:42I want them to be what they used to be.
00:45So I'm sorry.
00:46I'm not going to get all up.
00:48I'm going to still keep my eye on the prize, which is, to me, still the World Series.
00:54And they're still not doing everything that they could do to win the World Series.
00:59They've gotten closer.
01:00That's better.
01:01So I'm happy with the progress.
01:03But we're not there yet, and I'm not letting them off the hook.
01:06We right now, I feel like we're in the late 90s.
01:09And it was good.
01:10It was better than what it was in the early 90s.
01:12We're in the late 90s.
01:15We got, you know, Pedro.
01:16That was a nice signing.
01:18You know, they got Manny.
01:20Nice signing.
01:21They did not, in the late 90s, though, do anything and everything to win.
01:25They got a couple big names.
01:26And it was like, wow, we could actually do this.
01:28And we're going to actually start contending.
01:30And you remember what happened.
01:31They made the playoffs.
01:32They lost to Cleveland.
01:33They made the playoffs.
01:34They lost to the Yankees, which was fine.
01:37Then they figured out, you know what, dammit, we could do what we need to do to win.
01:41And they got shilling.
01:42And they were savvy with different moves and did what they had to do at the time, 2003 and on, to win it all.
01:51Okay?
01:51We are getting back to that, but we're not all the way there.
01:54Trade deadlines.
01:55I need more to trade.
01:56I didn't get it this year.
01:58Okay?
01:58Roman Anthony.
01:59Nice deal.
02:01But not every, I mean, that was still a deal I felt like to save money.
02:04That wasn't doing everything and anything.
02:06Well, if you really wanted to bring him up earlier, too, you could have.
02:08Correct.
02:08Because clearly he did not need the seasoning that they made it sound like in AAA at the time, for sure.
02:14Rafael Devers.
02:15Okay, I was thinking about this earlier today.
02:17Now, I understand every team dynamic is different, but back in the day, you had the infrastructure in place to keep a player like that.
02:23Wasn't Manny Ramirez a little bit like that?
02:25Manny was a little bit of a pain in the ass.
02:27Manny was a little bit of a space shot, but they had Tito.
02:29They had David Ortiz.
02:30They had a leadership group, Jason Veritek, whomever, that helped keep him just enough in line so you could yield the fruits of his beautiful offensive labor, whatever you want to say, because he was such a good offensive player.
02:43They couldn't do that this year.
02:44They didn't have the infrastructure.
02:45They had to trade the guy.
02:45Now, it's worked out, but you could have had Anthony and Devers, because that's what they had back in the day at Ortiz and Ramirez.
02:52I just don't want them to get comfortable and become the Tampa Bay Rays, where, hey, they figured out how to win on a budget, and they're good, but never great, or they're there, but never can get it done and win the World Series.
03:05Don't fall for it.
03:06It's good.
03:07That's been progress.
03:08Crochet, you know, good progress.
03:11Alex Bregman, good progress.
03:12They're not all the way there.
03:14They're not all the way back, and I'm not letting them off the hook until I see it in every which way.
03:19Trade deadline, offseason, inseason, everything.
03:23They need to be all in like they used to be, or I don't think they're going to win the World Series.
03:27They always did stuff at the trade deadline.
03:30Gagne, obviously the Nomar trade, PV, even Steve Pierce.
03:34Yeah, you can go down the list.
03:35Yeah, absolutely.
03:36I want more of that.
03:37I just need it from every which way, and I'm not getting it, so I'm not going to fall for it.
03:41I'm happy.
03:42It's been good.
03:43They're contenders, but it's not all the way back.
03:46Yeah, look, it's hard to argue with what you're saying in terms of the front office not going all the way in on this season
03:50because I don't think that they've had the sense of urgency that a normal contender would be,
03:55and I think big picture when you look at this team, you can squarely look at the big picture in the American League
04:01and say that this is a team that can contend to win the American League.
04:06I think they're absolutely squarely in that conversation, and if you had done more throughout the year
04:12to bolster this lineup, you could really make a real run at it and potentially be the favorite moving forward.
04:18I don't know what to make of this team coming off of yesterday just because you had the highs of a two-run,
04:25go-ahead, home run in the ninth inning, and you also got some of the worst baseball that I have seen
04:32at the major league level from this Red Sox team.
04:34It is a dumb, dumb team at times, and it is a team that can't execute at times,
04:41and it drives you absolutely crazy.
04:43Can we go through some of the stuff that took place yesterday?
04:46Sure.
04:46So to start off, you get Roman Anthony, again, home run.
04:51Yep.
04:52A lot of people I saw on social media, by the way, talking about how the crack of the bat sounded different.
04:56That was actually the sound of T-Bone throwing his remote at the TV when he actually hit that home run.
05:00Not enough power, five homers in 15 games.
05:02But after that, you had Baio in the second inning.
05:07Gives up a base hit with two outs.
05:12Shrug your shoulders, whatever.
05:14Then throws what I think should have been called a strike at the time, but you know what?
05:18And even Lou brought this up.
05:20But Connor Wong, it looked like a Little League catcher that hadn't broken in his glove completely.
05:25The ball pops out, runner winds up at second base, then there's a pop up to shallow center
05:31where Sedan Rafaela makes that play, I mean, like 999 times out of 1,000.
05:36And honestly, I thought he broke his wrist, Milliken, on that play.
05:39Didn't have to dive.
05:40Probably not, to be totally honest with you.
05:43Ball drops in.
05:44They score a run.
05:45And you're looking at it going, how did Baltimore?
05:47Baltimore just did nothing there.
05:49And they tie this thing up at one.
05:51Fast forward into the seventh inning.
05:53Cruising, two outs.
05:55Baio walks a guy.
05:56All right, no big deal.
05:57Fly ball into left center.
05:58Looked it up, Milliken, because we talked about this before.
06:00Catch probability for Durant on that play.
06:0395% catch probability for Sedan Rafaela on that play.
06:0785%.
06:08That's 180% chance of catching the ball.
06:11And I know it doesn't work like that, but you know what 95% plus 85% actually means
06:16when you talk about catch probability, it means you should catch the ball.
06:19They didn't.
06:20It was an average of about 90%.
06:22Two to one.
06:24And you're going, how are they trailing in this game at this point?
06:28Fast forward to the eighth inning.
06:29Runners on first and third.
06:31Nobody out.
06:33Roman Anthony, Alex Bregman up.
06:35You just got to put it.
06:36You're two sluggers.
06:37You're two best hitters.
06:38You just got to put it in play.
06:40Strikeout, strikeout, Trevor Story, ground out.
06:42Two to one.
06:44And then you get to Sedan Rafaela.
06:46Two run shot.
06:47And then you bring in 64-year-old Oralda Chapman, who right now is making Mariano Rivera look
06:51like John Wosden.
06:53They're the best reliever I've ever seen in my life right now.
06:55Unhittable.
06:56So, I don't know what to make.
06:59You have a young, exciting player, Roman Anthony, coming into his own.
07:02You have Brian Bale emerging as a legit number two starter.
07:05You have Sedan Rafaela coming through in the clutch again like we've seen in the past.
07:09You have a lights-out closer right now who could be everything you want and more.
07:13And still, there are moments in that game where you go, I don't know if the Boston Red Sox know
07:18what they are doing.
07:19I don't know what to make of the whole thing, Dundaro.
07:21First of all, I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong.
07:25Aroldis Chapman is a Hall of Famer.
07:27Isn't he?
07:28I mean, he's two World Series.
07:30He's got a bunch of All-Star games.
07:33He was an elite-level reliever at the time.
07:35I don't think anybody expected anything close to this when they signed him in the soft season.
07:40No, I guess not.
07:40I mean, his slider has been good.
07:42He has had a good slider, especially the last few outings.
07:46Look, I don't know what to tell you.
07:48Roman Anthony, he's awesome.
07:51That pitch in the eighth inning, that's too close to take.
07:53You know, whatever.
07:54That happens.
07:55It was inexcusable what happened in left-center field.
07:59You had both guys looking at each other.
08:00Now, I think that should have been, say, Don's ball.
08:02He's a center fielder.
08:03You have priority.
08:06I'm not saying I don't trust Jaron Duran to make that catch, but I would know that I'm
08:10the plus fielder there, and if I have a chip to 85% or whatever, I would be going to make
08:14that catch.
08:15So that was an embarrassment, especially with a guy that could score.
08:19You're not wrong.
08:20I just, you know, they find ways to win, and that's the fun part of what we're doing
08:25right now.
08:26They're finding ways to win, and I think that's just kind of what they are.
08:29They find ways to win, and that's great, and I do think that you can ride that into the
08:33postseason, but with the way that they play sometimes, I also think that one of these
08:36back-breaking mistakes or not being able to get a runner in from third with nobody out
08:40could come back to bite you when the postseason begins.
08:43It is going to come back to bite them.
08:44Not could, it will.
08:45Yeah.
08:45I mean, they have their best hitters 21 years old.
08:47You're not going to ride that guy to a World Series championship.
08:50That's another reason why I'm upset.
08:53They had a chance.
08:54They were right there.
08:54They have the infrastructure.
08:55They have the ace.
08:57They've got some veterans now with Bregman.
08:59If they had found a way to build this team better, they would have been right there,
09:01but now they're not, and now they're good, but they're not great, and it's fun, but they're,
09:07you know, it's not great because they could have been better, and that's why I'm not letting
09:12them off the hook.
09:13That was a fun.
09:13I love Sadan Rafi, and we were talking, Tyler and I were talking about the comparison between,
09:17um, say, Don and Jackie Bradley Jr., which is a debate I'm loving, um, because it's,
09:23I, you know, both guys were kind of frustrating, but they were both, they had their moments,
09:26these unbelievable moments.
09:28Um, if he could do some of the things he's done in the regular season, in the postseason,
09:31that could be a difference maker.
09:33But again, now I'm, I'm, I'm waiting and hoping for this type of unbelievable hot streak
09:39that a guy that's maybe not capable of sustaining it has to get on for them to really go to a
09:45different level.
09:45And that's what I'm worried about.
09:46No doubt.
09:47What do you got, Millican?
09:47No, and I think that's where you go back to the offense and the loss of Rafael Devers.
09:50You go since the all-star break, they're 16th in OPS.
09:52You go back to when the day Devers was traded, June 15th, they're 15th in WRC+.
09:57So this is a very average offense in a lot of ways.
10:00And that's what makes it so scary when you take them out of Fenway Park.
10:03You have to play in a place like Camden yesterday.
10:04That is huge.
10:05The outfield you're going to see, you're going to fly out to the warning track a bunch of different
10:08times.
10:09But I do think these are some of the characteristics you see of a young baseball team as well,
10:12where some moments you see the vision, you're like, it's all coming together.
10:15And then they do some of these stupid things.
10:17I think what you kind of cling to is that through the first 23-1 games they played this year,
10:22they were 6-17.
10:23They're 13-7 in their last 20.
10:25So there's been real growth in that department.
10:27They're showing they can win some of these close games.
10:29I think that's some of the stuff that you cling to in some of these moments.
10:32And it's that, and it's a combination of what the American League is right now.
10:35When you're talking about the teams you're going to go up against here, the Tigers are
10:38in big, big trouble.
10:40I don't know if people know this, but outside of Tarek Skubel, they don't have anything.
10:43Casey Mize has fallen off a cliff since the All-Star break.
10:46Jack Flaherty, he is not the Jack Flaherty from a year ago.
10:48You start to look around.
10:50The Mariners, the Yankees, these are teams that dominate at home, but they aren't very
10:54good on the road.
10:55The Mariners are four games below .500 on the road.
10:57You get them at home, they're going to pitch their ass off because that's what they can do.
11:00The Yankees, we saw, if they can't hit homers to right field, it becomes a pretty
11:03significant problem for them.
11:04And those teams, I think the Mariners have better pitching than you.
11:07The Yankees right now, they have two starters they feel good about, and it's Max Fried
11:10and Carlos Rodon.
11:11You have two starters you feel good about, and that's right now with Crochet, and that's
11:15with Brian Baio.
11:16I think Lucas Giolito's been up and down since the All-Star break, but I don't know how you
11:19don't look at yesterday and you have to clap for Brian Baio quite a bit because there
11:23are a lot of things in that game that used to spiral him.
11:25He would have fallen off.
11:26How about the Trevor Story play where the ball just rolled underneath his glove?
11:28Great point.
11:29Another one in there where he usually, when those moments happen where the Raffaella ball
11:33pops out of his glove, he'd give up four, five runs, and he'd start getting mad on the
11:37mound.
11:38What did he do?
11:39He should have got through seven innings if you catch that ball in the outfield, but
11:41still, he now has a sub-three ERA.
11:44This is a guy who's showing up every single day and giving you number two production, and
11:47when you have the best ERA in the sport since June 8th, that's what changed everything for
11:52this Red Sox team, and they continue to show that that is not a fluke.
11:55That is something they're able to hold on to between that and the bullpen.
11:58You buying them as World Series contenders, Dundaro?
12:00No.
12:00Like Kevin Millar just said in that clip?
12:02I don't think, I don't, I mean, I don't know.
12:04As a contender, I don't think they, I don't think they're going to win it.
12:09I don't think they've done enough to win it.
12:12What's this team missing?
12:14Well, I would have liked, first of all, you know what, honestly, I would have liked?
12:19Just the effort.
12:20They're probably missing a bat.
12:22They're probably missing a starter, or at least a bullpen, or like one more arm.
12:29Brian Bale, I will say this, and correct me if I'm wrong, anybody in this room, he's not
12:35Eduardo Rodriguez, is he?
12:37I think he's better.
12:38Is he better?
12:39Do you see him as better?
12:40Like, I think the potential, obviously there's still future potential there.
12:43I think he's better than Eduardo Rodriguez.
12:45I trust him more than I ever trusted Eduardo Rodriguez.
12:48For sure.
12:48Absolutely.
12:49So that's good.
12:49I think he's a legit, right now, number two.
12:52So that might take you off the hook for some of what you might have gotten from a guy like
12:56Joe Ryan.
12:57I still don't trust the entire staff in a postseason.
13:00I don't trust the process.
13:02I don't think their process was that of a true World Series contender.
13:06I don't know what to tell you.
13:07Maybe I'm wrong.
13:08I'll happily be wrong.
13:10The process doesn't say World Series contender to me, and that's why I'm upset, because
13:14they have the pieces to put them there.
13:17Their process failed them, and that's what I think is going to fail them.
13:20Yeah, the missing piece for me was a sense of urgency from the front office with a team
13:23that did have the pieces when everything kind of came together, and I think they're probably
13:27surprised at the output that they've gotten with some of the players on this roster for
13:31sure, and the emergence, continued emergence of some of these players.
13:35Look, I think we all thought Roman Anthony was going to be good.
13:38I think they thought Roman Anthony was going to be good.
13:40And I'm sure the front office is a little surprised at how well he is playing right
13:44now, and arguably their best bat in the lineup probably has them surprised a little bit,
13:50because I think if you look at it, the bat, one more bat to me makes them a legit, legit
13:57contender.
13:57It still feels like that lineup is going to be a bat short, Milliken.
14:01It worked well last night.
14:02Sedan Raffaella hit fifth.
14:03It worked well.
14:04I know Alex Corr after the game gave Ramon Vasquez all this credit, and hey, it worked
14:08out.
14:08But Sedan Raffaella was hitting fifth.
14:10We know in the ideal lineup, it's between seven and nine.
14:12That's where he should be most nights.
14:14If you could imagine a world where Rafael Devers was in the middle, you feel great.
14:17I also think you're short a game three starter.
14:20I think Baos emerges that number two.
14:21You just don't have faith in Giolito.
14:23I'm worried about him innings-wise, just coming after having elbow surgery from a year ago.
14:28He's been up and down in the second half.
14:29I do think there's some concerns, and what was great about him the other night, he got up to 96.
14:33The last time he had done that was the Houston start, which was four starts ago.
14:37For him, if the fastball isn't playing up, all of a sudden the changeup doesn't work,
14:40and his whole arsenal kind of falls flat.
14:42And they knew.
14:42That's why they were so disappointed at the trade deadline when they weren't able to get
14:46a Joe Ryan or a Sandy Alcantara, whoever you wanted, because they knew that if you could
14:50go and get that guy, you could go head-to-head with any team in the AL.
14:53It feels like you're a few bullets shy.
14:55And I also think there's something about a young team getting into the playoffs, and a lot of
14:58these guys are not only going to be playing at a time of the year they haven't played
15:01in before, but at stakes they haven't played before.
15:03That brings new energy.
15:04That brings new pressure.
15:05And I think that's part of the reason why home field advantage is so important, and that
15:09first wild card.
15:10Baseball's a finicky game.
15:12And I don't want to preach.
15:14But you have guys that will go in and out of production.
15:18There's slumps.
15:18There's hot streaks.
15:20You go in and out all the time.
15:22And the best way to combat that is to have dudes.
15:27And you have to have those guys, because when the other players around them don't hit, you
15:32need the ultra-talented guy for his talent to rise up and become the most stable thing.
15:38I mean, that's what we always saw with Manny Ramirez.
15:41Even when he slumped, he wasn't really, because he was so good, he could get out of it so quickly.
15:45I just, I'm worried that, yes, it's been fun.
15:48There's been moments where Baio has been electric, or not Baio, Raffaella.
15:53And it's just, eventually, if a couple guys go cold, I think it's a completely different
16:00lineup.
16:00And you're in a completely different spot.
16:02And you need your process to back that mentality, where it's not about the analytics and the
16:06numbers and the data and all that.
16:08You need dudes.
16:09And they just haven't prioritized getting enough of those guys.
16:12That's why the Dodgers are always there.
16:14It's no secret.
16:15You get all the best talent, you're going to win.
16:17You need a team aspect to it.
16:19You know, that's what Theo was good at.
16:20That's what some of the best teams were able to do.
16:22But you have to have the, like, if Devers was still here, it would be a completely different
16:26team.
16:27Bregman's a dude.
16:28He's a dude.
16:29He's got one of them.
16:29He's a dude.
16:30In Bregman.
16:30But I also look at it, and just the lack of a sense of urgency, and you have a nice young
16:35core that you're going to be able to build around moving forward, right?
16:38Talk about Crochet, Baio, both in the rotation.
16:42Roman Anthony looks like he's going to be a pillar of the franchise for years to come.
16:45I get that.
16:46But you also have a year right now where you're getting an unbelievable season out of Chapman.
16:52Bregman's everything you possibly could have wanted.
16:54You have Giolito pitching well.
16:56You have Trevor Story back.
16:57You have Crochet pitching like a legit ace.
17:01Cash in the chips, man.
17:02Go for it.
17:03They didn't do that.
17:05You don't know how long that stuff is going to last.
17:08Bregman might opt out.
17:10Giolito might opt out.
17:11You have Chapman, going to be a free agent.
17:13Trevor Story.
17:14Like, I just hate when you squander potential windows here.
17:19And it feels like this team, to me, didn't really believe in this year's team.
17:23Didn't go all in the way we talked about.
17:25And now you have a team that, when you look across the American League, like you just said,
17:29Millican, last segment, there's a real opportunity here.
17:31You just said the key word.
17:34The fact that we even had to bring windows.
17:36There used to never be windows.
17:38Every year was the window.
17:39Now we're talking about, whoa, we can't squander the window.
17:42We got this one with a window.
17:43We got to think of it.
17:43No.
17:44There were never windows.
17:45Every year, you reload Boston Red Sox.
17:48John Henry.
17:49Okay.
17:50You reload every year.
17:52If you don't get it done this year, no problem.
17:54You reload.
17:55And you do it next year.
17:56And you go find people.
17:57And you have, you know, guys coming up.
17:59Or guys you get in free agency.
18:01You're trade free.
18:01That's what this team should be.
18:03That's what the best teams do.
18:05And the process has failed them.
18:07And they're better.
18:08It's better.
18:09But it's not what it needs to be.
18:10It's not what it was.
18:11I do think the return of Justin Slayton starting today is going to be massive for that bullpen.
18:14If you're talking about a bullpen that's been arguably the best in baseball for over two months at this point in time.
18:19Best in the American League.
18:20Number three in all of baseball.
18:21You add Slayton.
18:22I think he's as good as Whitlock.
18:24You have Chapman at the top.
18:25That bullpen should be in better shape.
18:27And you're going to get Willier Abreu next week.
18:28I think the real focus that's going to start to happen here is with David Hamilton coming back up and doing his thing.
18:33How long is it before they tell Masa to go, you know, hey, you're not giving us anything at the DH spot.
18:38Appreciate it.
18:38We'll put Duran at DH who continues to look awkward in left field and just doesn't read the ball well.
18:43Isn't very commanding.
18:44I think back to that Giants game earlier in the year where he wouldn't call off Nate Eaton and that ended up blowing up in your face.
18:49I think that's the next thing you start worrying about with the Red Sox is how those pieces fit and where Peyton Tully factors in.
18:54Yeah.
18:55So Millican, yesterday we got the news that Tully was going to get pushed back.
18:58Correct.
18:59And that they was either going to start or he was going to piggyback off of someone else's start.
19:03But is there a chance that we see him sooner rather than later up in Boston?
19:07I think sooner rather than later is the right way to frame it.
19:09I don't think it's going to be this turnaround.
19:11I think Kyle Harrison, who they took out early on Tuesday, only through 38 pitches through three innings.
19:16I assume they're going to go to him, but I don't think that's something that locks him into the next rotation spot.
19:20Because Alex Corris told you hit and miss.
19:22They are not impressed with him.
19:23Justin Willard, when he initially got here, was like a couple weeks down in the minors.
19:27We're going to bring him up.
19:27His secondaries haven't developed.
19:29He has an okay cutter.
19:30That's really all he's working with there.
19:32It's a bad slurve.
19:33And it's a nice fastball, but it isn't Peyton Tully's fastball.
19:36To me, they know Tully gives them their best shot to win.
19:39I would pair him with another reliever out there.
19:41You can pick your poison.
19:42If you want a righty, Richard Fitz would have really been a nice matchup there.
19:45But I think Bernardino, overall, what he's done as an opener the last couple years, it's a sub-120 ERA.
19:51He's good in that opener role.
19:52If Tully can't throw more than 70 pitches, cool.
19:54Give him four.
19:55Give Bernardino one.
19:56That's five innings.
19:57I'll take that as my number five starter.
19:59I'd like to see Tully involved.
20:01And just one other thing, because you talked about this guy, and I just can't escape.
20:04Maybe I'm blinded by the World Baseball Classic, but I can't escape it.
20:08I feel like if the Red Sox were going to do anything in the playoffs, Masataka Yoshida will make his presence felt.
20:14I just feel like he's going to be a pinch hit, a big series, a big stretch.
20:17Class half full here.
20:19I just think that that's going to be a guy, for some reason, who he's kind of sucked.
20:25He's flown under the radar.
20:27I feel like just this feeling where if they get into the playoffs, if they're going to have some success, a part of it will be because Yoshida won them a game or two.
20:36It got hot or something.
20:37I have the complete opposite feeling as you.
20:39Whenever he's up at the plate, I'm like, this guy is going to do absolutely nothing.
20:43No, I hope I'm wrong.
20:44If he's just what he was the last two years where he had a 109 OPS plus and a 115, you would do backflips.
20:50You'd be so thankful.
20:51It's just whether he's going to have the amount of time.
20:52Because if David Hamilton keeps doing what he's doing, we know this team regrets not dealing him over the offseason.
20:57He plays a great second base, too.
20:59We know they need the defensive help, and that's where this team thrives with their pitching staff.
21:02I think they'll lean into that a bit more.
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