'Sunday Night in America' panelists Jason Chaffetz and Byron York discuss the redistricting and gerrymandering debate nationwide. #foxnews #usnews #politics #elections #redistricting #news #us #fox #usa #uspolitics #government #gerrymandering #election #map #political #politicalnews #vote #voter #voters #breakingnews #media #world
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00:00Jason Chaffetz and Fox News contributor Byron York, welcome to you both, gentlemen.
00:05Byron, is this what the framers had in mind, drawing lines to maximize political advantage?
00:12I mean, the framers didn't even mention political parties.
00:15They feared factions, and now both seem to be dominating the discussion.
00:21Well, they did fear factions, but they also realized that factions would be an inevitable part of politics.
00:27And I think that a lot of efforts to take the politics out of politics have failed over the history of the country.
00:34So I think, no doubt, it would be better if after the census, every 10 years, every state in a fair and reasonable way redrew its lines.
00:44But it doesn't really work that way.
00:46And in this case, you briefly alluded to the fact that Republicans say that the 2020 census was messed up.
00:53And in fact, in 2022, the Census Bureau admitted that it had undercounted six states and overcounted eight states.
01:01And among the undercounted states were mostly red states, including Texas and Florida.
01:07And among the overcounted states were blue states, including Massachusetts and New York.
01:14So listen to Democrats.
01:15They'll say the people in Texas are doing it entirely for Donald Trump.
01:19I do believe that's part of it.
01:20But it's also part that they think that they were kind of screwed in the 2020 census.
01:28All right, Chairman Chaffetz, if the 2020 census was wrong, and you've just heard from me and Byron that it was, so you don't need to hear any more, why wait a decade to fix it?
01:38If 40 percent of a state is Democrat, what percentage of their House members should be Democrat?
01:44Well, it's never going to be a one to one.
01:49It's never going to be a direct ratio.
01:51But what I think is important in principle is that state legislatures should be driving this.
01:56I've never bought into this idea that this independent commission would ever be independent.
02:02That's just not true.
02:03If you bring the vote as close to the people as possible, you would do that through your state legislature.
02:10And if you're not happy with the way they're operating, go talk to your local representative or your state senator or even your governor.
02:16So states have the ability to do that.
02:18That's what they did in Texas.
02:19That's not what they're doing in California, by the way.
02:22But that's the best way to do it.
02:24And then when all else fails, judges get involved, which they don't want and, frankly, we don't want.
02:31Byron, pressure will come to nearly every state now.
02:35Donald Trump won South Carolina overwhelmingly, but Kamala Harris got 40 percent of the vote.
02:40And there's talk of redrawing lines solely to eliminate the one Democrat House member in South Carolina.
02:47Do you think that's where this is headed, to eliminate all minority views, ignore the 40 percent?
02:54And if you were in charge of the world, and you may be one day, what is the right way to draw these political lines?
03:02I'm still waiting for that day.
03:03It has not come yet.
03:05Look, I think the best way to do it, even though it's a flawed way, has been to do it on the basis of the census every year.
03:12I agree totally with Jason.
03:14It should be a matter of the state legislature.
03:17On the other hand, in California, they decided to go another route.
03:21And they created a redistricting commission, allegedly nonpartisan.
03:28The voters voted for it twice.
03:30So it's something that voters in California wanted.
03:33And now, because of what happened in Texas with Republicans, Gavin Newsom, the Democratic governor of California,
03:39who is running for president, said, well, we have to do something to redistrict California to get more blue votes and counterbalance what was done in Texas.
03:49So what we're going to do is we're going to take that independent commission that all of you voters approved of,
03:54and we're going to put it aside for 2026 and 28.
03:58And then after the 2030, we'll bring it back and we'll start doing it by the rules then.
04:03That's a really bad way to do things.
04:05All right, Chairman, when you and I served together, there were probably 100, 120 seats that were kind of flip seats that could go either way.
04:15And that number consistently gets smaller.
04:18And it's now, I think, down to maybe a couple of dozen.
04:21Is that, in your judgment, healthy, long term for the republic, that everything's a primary now?
04:29Or how would you kind of decrease the polarization that exists in the House?
04:36It's a little different from when you and I served.
04:39Yeah, something like 98 percent of the people that run for a re-election get re-elected.
04:44And I don't think it's healthy.
04:45And I think until the Congress gets the political guts, as well as state legislatures, to implement term limits, you're going to continue to have this.
04:54I think the power has shifted so big.
04:58These districts are nearly 900,000 people.
05:02The ability to raise money of an incumbent is just off the charts.
05:06Look, I unseated a 12-year incumbent Republican.
05:09You unseated a Republican who is sitting in Congress.
05:13So it can be done, but we were sort of anomalies out there.
05:17And so there is a way to do this.
05:19But I think term limits, you should be able to get in, maybe serve 12 years and you're out.
05:25Two terms in the Senate, six terms in the House, and get out of there.
05:28They put term limits on the president, and they should do so with governors and state legislators as well.
05:34You know, J.C., you and I also left unindicted and undefeated, which is unusual.
05:40Byron, I'm going to let you call Gavin Newsom and let him know that Mike Johnson has nothing to do with redistricting.
05:47So I'll let you give the civics update.
05:50Otherwise, both of y'all have a great remainder of your weekend, and thank you for loaning us your expertise on a Sunday night.
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