- 7 weeks ago
In this episode of Newstrack, watch as top legal eagles from the opposition and government -- Abhishek Manu Singhvi and Ravi Shankar Prasad share their perspectives on the contentious bill.
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00:00Fiery sunset showdown over criminal Leta's build.
00:14Game changer bill to oust criminals in power.
00:23Prime Minister, Chief Ministers, Ministers, PACE Acts if held for 30 days.
00:29Center's new bill vows political clean-up.
00:53Opposition brands it a draconian overreach.
00:56We are going back to medieval times when the king could just remove anybody at will.
01:03There is no concept of what an elected person is.
01:06He doesn't like your face so he tells ED put a case.
01:10And then democratically elected person is wiped out within 30 days.
01:14This is new.
01:18Criminal Neta's will.
01:20That is our top focus on NewsTrack.
01:26Good evening.
01:27You are watching NewsTrack with me.
01:29Maria Shaquille.
01:30Parliament today witnessed a stormy session.
01:34And the session storm was because of a crucial legislation.
01:39Tone papers flew across the Lok Sabha.
01:42Opposition MPs stormed the well.
01:44And slogans echoed as Union Home Minister Amit Shah sought to introduce three key bills,
01:50including the 130th Constitution Amendment Bill, now dubbed as the Criminal Neta Bill.
01:57At the heart of the approach is a game-changing proposal.
02:01Any minister, chief minister, prime minister jailed for 30 consecutive days on serious charges
02:08would automatically lose office on day 31, even without conviction.
02:13The government calls it a bold step towards accountability and zero tolerance for crime in politics.
02:20The opposition says that this is unconstitutional, dangerous, and a political weapon aimed at destabilizing elected governments.
02:30The bills have now been referred to a joint parliamentary committee.
02:35But the NDA will need a two-thirds majority to ensure that this bill is passed.
02:41We have top lawmakers lined up for you on the show.
02:44But first up, here's what happened today.
02:47A stormy day in Parliament.
03:04This bill is squarely destructive.
03:08The other two bills are strongly opposed.
03:11When he was the Prime Minister of Gujarat.
03:13Unprecedented scenes, torn papers, and loud protests.
03:23At the heart of it, three explosive bills.
03:28Introduced by Union Home Minister, Amit Shah.
03:31The Constitution, 130th Amendment Bill.
03:36The Government of Union Territories, Amendment Bill.
03:38And the Jammu and Kashmir, Reorganization Amendment Bill, 2025.
03:54The moment Home Minister Shah rose to speak, kiosk erupted.
04:01Opposition MPs stormed the well of the House, tore up copies of the bills, and hurled them towards the Home Minister.
04:14Nearly snatching away his mic amid sloganeering.
04:18But opposition leaders allege that female MPs were pushed and heckled by BJP members.
04:25At least one big notice is needed for institutional bills.
04:29आज देश से हम पूचते हैं कि नईतिकता क्या है?
04:32क्या देश जेल से चल सकती है? नहीं चल सकती है?
04:37यही ये विधेप कहता है. जिसको फाड करके हमारे स्पीकर के साथ दूर्वेभार करने की कोशिश की कई?
04:43foreign
05:13The flashpoint, a sweeping provision that could disqualify even the Prime Minister,
05:23a Chief Minister or any Minister if they remain in custody for 30 consecutive days
05:29on charges carrying a minimum sentence of 5 years.
05:34No conviction required.
05:36Removal would be automatic on day 31.
05:43When he was the Prime Minister of Gujarat, he had been arrested.
05:49Whether he took the morality of that political party.
05:52Whether he took the morality of that political party.
05:54Karamantu ji.
05:55Karamantu ji.
05:57I want to clear the record.
06:01I had a few years ago.
06:04Congress warned it violates the presumption of innocence.
06:18We are going back to medieval times when the King could just remove anybody at will.
06:38There is no concept of what an elected person is.
06:43He doesn't like your face, so he tells ED, put a case.
06:49And then democratically elected person is wiped out within 30 days.
06:54This is new.
06:56The bills have now been referred to a joint committee of parliament.
07:01But the NDA will need a two-thirds majority to push through the constitutional amendment.
07:07With Mossimi Singh, Bureau Report, India Today.
07:11And let me go straight to Dr. Abhishek Manu Singhvi, Senior Counsel, Fourth Term Congress MP and Chair of several Parliamentary Standing Committees, who joins us live.
07:25On India Today, you have said that this bill is a tool to destabilize opposition governments.
07:31But don't citizens deserve a guarantee that ministers facing serious charges cannot continue in office, sir?
07:39All the words you've used earlier, unconstitutional, destabilization, all apply.
07:45But were it not so tragic, this would be a comic, a very remarkably comic bill, which has been brought, conceived in haste, utterly distorted in design and obviously brought for ulterior motives.
07:58Let me give you a few facets which your viewers may not be aware of.
08:01But let me start by saying this is a fantastic new idea to let a police constable, actually not the poor police constable, but the political master of that police constable, remove elected governments right, left and center or facilitate defections by destabilization, but always of the opposition alone.
08:22Why do I say that?
08:23Why do I say that?
08:24Why do I say that?
08:25And Maria, you will appreciate, first and foremost, this is what it relies on an executive act, not even an executive act, a lowly police officers act of arrest, which is completely uncertain, completely arbitrary, because there is no legislative determination prior to that.
08:46Anybody can come and arrest any time. And over the very small threshold of 30 days, the minister elected, the chief minister elected will lose his seat, 0.1.
08:57There is no trial. There is no process. There is no charge. There is no charge sheet. There is no external judicial element.
09:09Arrest is on suspicion, on probable cause. I keep you for 30 days and the entire government can be destabilized. Now, the third aspect, this is very delightfully putting the prime minister's name in the bill.
09:28Do you really think that any central minister or prime minister will ever be arrested by a police force of that central agency? Is it not absurd?
09:40So, clearly, this is to be used and misused. And do you really think it will be used against a CM of a BJP rule state?
09:46It is to be used. It is to be used only against ministers or CMs of non-BJP, non-NDA states. It is more obvious. Thirdly, you have actually invented an amazing recipe to encourage and engineer defections.
10:07Just that threat or a temporary disappearance even for three months of the chief minister or the minister can lead to a flood of defections.
10:16You have seen already without this bill, the BJP's track record in making and unmaking governments where they have lost the elections.
10:24You can imagine how this can be used. Fourthly, you know the kind of biased non-level playing field you have for the so-called allies of the government, the agencies.
10:36Be it ED, be it CBI. They are arresting right, left and center. But wherever a politician is involved, 99% are only that of the opposition.
10:50And more than that, the balance 1% or whoever else is there will become completely laundered and whitewashed by the time it goes through the laundry machine.
10:58One more thing, just one more thing. There is a presumption of innocence. A presumption of innocence means that at the very minimum without charges being framed by the court but actually after conviction only will you take action like this.
11:16Now, there is a hilarious thing. The law already provides that if you, Ms. Shakil is convicted on anything more than two years sentence, you will immediately lose your seat.
11:29That the law provides. But today, you have given a go-by to the entire legislative section so-and-so of the representation of people's act. By the mere below executive act of arrest, you will completely lose your ministership.
11:45Now, this thing adding about being reinstated is another farce. If you keep you arrested for two months, six months is a small time, there are many people languishing without bail for one year.
11:58Do you think the government will survive?
12:00Dr. Singhvi, then would the Congress support a version of this bill because it has been sent to the JPC if additional safeguards against arbitrary arrests and agency misuse were built in?
12:13Absolutely not. This is against the fundamental tenets of democracy that an executive act of arrest, which is ultimately an executive thinking domain, can lead to the removal of the elected representative.
12:27Indeed, it is a direct assault on basic structure for the simple reason that you are allowing the mandate of the people, quay that minister or quay that chief minister to be nullified.
12:38Suppose you are the government in X state, you and two ministers of your, and you are obviously an opposition government, non-NDA, are arrested for 45 days, 3 months, 6 months.
12:49But obviously, the government will fall. So, you will change governments in this manner. There can be no safeguards on arrest which can prevent this. It is a ridiculous bill.
13:00I hope and trust the select committee, the joint committee does not pass it. If it is passed, it will be struck down as violating basic structure. It will be struck down as violating federalism because this is the maximum use for opposition states across India.
13:17Okay.
13:18And thirdly, it will be violative of all the articles of the constitution in part 3, 14, 21, etc, etc.
13:23Dr. Singhvi, then how do you balance the principle of presumption of innocence with the need for constitutional trust in ministers who hold high public offices?
13:33Why? The presumption of innocence means that I make an allegation. There is the proof of any kind. I can understand one thing. See, there are two answers to your question, Maria.
13:44Number one, there is already a law. A law, mind you, not an executive act of arrest, which says if you are convicted, so conviction is a determination of, at the primary level, of the probability and the certainty and the beyond reasonable doubt that you have committed a crime.
14:02So long as it carries a sentence of more than two years, you will go to jail and you will lose your seat. What is the problem? There is a law there already. What is the need for this silly law with an executive act?
14:12Secondly, if you are so much concerned, you may, I am not saying I agree, but you may consider a model where you say that in one, two, three, four categories of serious serious crimes, rape, kidnapping, some serious ones,
14:27where in that category of four or five crimes, murder, etc., where the court has framed charges, not charge sheet, court has framed charges, you may consider the minister if involved will step down.
14:41Nothing of that is happening here. You are ignoring the existing law of the representation of people's act. You are not having any other model where you have a select list of venous charges with the charges being framed by the court at least.
14:53You are having no test, no criterion. You are playing to the galleries. This has no chance of being passed in the first place. But if passed, I can tell you with certainty to be struck down.
15:03Okay. So it is somebody's hobby horse. It is somebody's fear mongering. It is somebody's ulterior motive model. It is somebody who is trying to dangle something as a threat or something.
15:14Okay. Dr. Singhvi, my last question. Is the opposition's resistance more about protecting political space than genuinely debating the constitutional morality that Amit Shah argues this bill upholds?
15:26The constitutional morality is not upheld by removing elected governments through a police constable acting under the Honorable Home Minister's Department.
15:39Is that constitutional morality? Constitutional morality is not upheld by destabilizing not that minister or chief minister but his whole government by keeping him behind bars and delaying bail by three to six months?
15:51Is it constitutional morality in the current context when everybody knows on proven track record every day in the press the way the ED and the CBI is going haywire?
16:02What is arrest? The arrest is nothing. You can arrest anybody anytime in today's world under this BJP government.
16:08That will mean that if you are a politician with a chief minister, is that all political morality, constitutional morality, any morality of any kind which the Honorable Home Minister is addressing?
16:17No. This is threat. This is intimidation. This is control freakism. This is running a system where you can say, look, I must have the power of doing and undoing democratically elected governments. And that is completely antithetical to every known spirit, letter and soul of the Constitution.
16:36And that you are supporting it by reference to constitutional immorality. It is the height of constitutional immorality.
16:43All right, Dr. Abhishek Manu Singh, we really appreciate your time here on the news track tonight.
16:49Joining me now is former law minister and senior BJP leader Ravi Shankar Prasad.
16:55Mr. Prasad, the government says that this bill strengthens constitutional morality and ensures that ministers facing grave charges cannot remain in office.
17:04But doesn't it risk undermining the principle of innocent until proven guilty?
17:11I just heard my good friend Amishek Manu Singhvi. It was more of a political speech than one dealing with the whole obligations to adhere to constitutional morality in public life.
17:29But on a lighter note, Maria, welcome to your new channel. Good luck. I am talking to you for my legal library.
17:38I have also a big library of books of autobiography to others. Politicians do study also. I thought I must remind you gently.
17:49Now, coming to the issue in question. Yes, sir.
17:52What this whole bill is about and the background cannot be lost sight of. When Mr. K. Jirival refused to resign in spite of months in office, the matter was taken to the Supreme Court.
18:05And the Supreme Court said he cannot govern from the jail. But as far as his removal as the chief minister is concerned, we are sorry, there is no provision like that for us to intervene.
18:18Remember that. Remember that. It was widely debated observations of the court. We will stop him from functioning as the chief minister, as the head of the government from Tihar jail.
18:31But we cannot compel him to resign because there is no law like that. Second thing you must remember, and that's very important. I want your viewers to know it.
18:42When the Section 8 was there, in the event you have been unseated in election petition, stay was a matter of course. The Supreme Court said, in serious offenses, you have been disqualified. Why stay is a matter of right?
18:56They set aside that provision. And thereafter, do you remember that ordinance came and the great Rahul Gandhi in the great press conference of press club said, I will tear it away. Remember that?
19:08Yes, I do. Mr. Manmohan Singh was in a marriage. I was covering that, sir.
19:13I will throw it in dust. I am very happy to hear that from you. I hope Abhishek records that, the great, very moralizing eloquence of Mr. Rahul Gandhi, which he has completely forgotten.
19:26When the bill was prepared, I remember late Arun Yeti and myself, we took the lead, no, we will not support it.
19:33And all the political leaders we tried to persuade our party, and ultimately it was not passed. Today, if you are convicted, you are disqualified.
19:44Okay. This present law is not against disqualification. The basic thing you must remember, Maria, this is if you are arrested, will you operate the government from jail?
19:58Okay.
19:59That is the height of constitutional immorality.
20:03Okay.
20:04And let me tell all the congresspeople and those of the opposition, when the constitution was framed, they never expected,
20:12that one day will come to jail and the government will go to jail.
20:17They trusted the morality of political leaders.
20:19Yes. But the question here is…
20:21Now, let me just complete… I will ask… reply. I will reply to all your queries.
20:27Go ahead, sir.
20:28Did it not… the gentleman in… in TMC, education minister, his bill was rejected, he remained in minister for so long.
20:37Do you remember that?
20:38Yes.
20:39Yes.
20:40Yes.
20:41Do you remember that?
20:42No.
20:43Yes, you remember that?
20:44Yes, teacher's…
20:45No.
20:46To the teachers scam?
20:47Is there appointment scam?
20:48I mean, he had the cases were there.
20:49Therefore, you are in a position, mind you, five years of beyond is the cut-off, that is heinous offenses, not ordinary offenses.
20:54Sure.
20:55But sir, here the question is…
20:57a whole range of attempt to murder, kidnapping, kidnapping for ransom, corruption.
21:01But sir, here the question is that the government faces the charge…
21:04Therefore, there is a proper safeguard.
21:06…that you are misusing investigating agencies,
21:10that they are being weaponized to engineer the arrest of opposition leaders
21:14and dislodge elected governments.
21:20Let me… let me… let me reply to that question straight away.
21:24You will move for bail in the court, na?
21:28Is it your case that the court is also being weaponized?
21:31I am asking very blunt question.
21:33The court will examine everything.
21:35And by the way, in all the cases of scam, corruption, etc.,
21:41the consequences have been clear.
21:44You are talking to Ravi Shankar Prasad,
21:46who has argued the lead PIN, the fordress scam in Pattai court,
21:50seeking a CBI inquiry in the bitumenous scam.
21:53And all big, big leaders, I.S. officers, income tax commissioner,
21:58went to jail and conviction happened or not.
22:00Therefore, this sweeping comments is something not to be appreciated.
22:05But the larger issue is…
22:07…maryah,
22:10…zoomuniyat…
22:11…loog class…
22:12…so you mean to say we will forget all the issues of morality,
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25:20Now, that's a very good question. Allow me some time to reply to it. First of all, when
25:28the bill will be finalized after the joint parliamentary committee feedback, surely these
25:34issues will be addressed. But I have a larger question. Potential of abuse has never been
25:42a benchmark of any law. Income tax law is being abused by certain income tax officers.
25:47Should we abandon all the income tax laws? Many SHOs do arbitrary arrests. They do. But
25:53should we do away with the penal code? You don't do like that. Therefore, existence or
26:00apprehension of abuse cannot become the ground for that because there is a corrective mechanism
26:06in the entire judicial process against that. And that is therefore the bail. You can go
26:11for caution. You can say there is nothing like that. And the courts are there. The Supreme
26:15Court is there. Therefore, the whole process of legal aspect to address these concerns and
26:22all this fanciful argument is nothing but designed to shield corruption and shield corrupt leaders.
26:30That is the point. All right. All right. Mr. Ravi Shankar Prasad, former law
26:37minister of India, always pleasure speaking to you, sir. Thank you for your perspective and
26:41thank you for sharing your thought on the show tonight. That's all from me on this
26:45edition of the news track. Remember this bill, which has been tabled in the Lok Sabha will
26:50be sent to the Joint Parliamentary Committee. In all, 31 MPs will be part of this JPC. 21
26:56from the Lok Sabha, 10 from the Rajya Sabha. There are several chapters that will be unfolding,
27:01particularly in the JPC discussion. We'll continue to track that story very, very closely.
27:06That's all from me. Thanks so much for watching.
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