- 6 weeks ago
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PeopleTranscript
00:00You're in there for ages, what happened?
00:15Drive. Now, now.
00:19Just go, go, go, go.
00:25What is it?
00:26Just go, go, go, go.
00:27What's wrong? What happened?
00:30What did he say?
00:38No, listen, everything's under control.
00:39Just, if it comes to it, if it comes to it,
00:42just stick to the same story as with Kevin, all right?
00:44We met through work.
00:46We talked about my niece.
00:48You asked my advice because of my contact insecurity.
00:52That's it. End of story.
00:54I'll say exactly the same thing.
00:57Do we need to call the police?
00:58No, just trust me, Yvonne.
01:02Trust me.
01:03It's weird. We'd better not be in touch for a while.
01:08It's weird. We'd better not be in touch for a while.
01:33Well, just in case, give me your phone.
01:36Give it to me.
01:49Everything's going to be okay.
01:51I'll just stick to the story.
01:52Okay.
01:53All right.
02:01It's going to be fine.
02:03I'll see you in another tree yard.
02:08Mom?
02:08I'm sorry.
02:23I'm sorry.
02:24I'm sorry.
02:25I'm sorry.
02:26I'm sorry.
02:27I'll see you in the other tree.
02:30I'll see you in another tree yard.
02:31PIANO PLAYS
03:01I'm, um, going out for a bit.
03:28Right.
03:30Are we still on for tonight?
03:31It's Arthnum's birthday.
03:39If one, are you all right?
03:40Oh, God, yeah.
03:41I'm sorry.
03:42I'm sorry.
03:44Um, hormone brain.
03:46Yes.
03:48I've booked a table.
03:49All you can eat.
03:52Great.
03:53Remind me what we've got him again.
04:01Uh, that speaker he wanted.
04:03It's the same one we've got in the kitchen.
04:05Oh, yes, yes.
04:06Excellent.
04:09Excellent.
04:09You should know this thing with Rosa.
04:27Whatever it is, it's not serious.
04:31Right.
04:32She knows how I feel about you.
04:35I've made it very clear.
04:38Right.
04:39I'm sorry.
04:41One, I really am.
04:50Been through worse.
04:51I thought I'd done.
04:57I thought I'd done.
04:57Get a room, you two.
05:11Hey.
05:11Hey.
05:12Hey.
05:12How are you doing?
05:13Happy birthday.
05:14Happy birthday.
05:16Thank you very much.
05:16Thank you very much.
05:17You're not coming.
05:18Stealing the limelight from Sathnam.
05:19Thank you, sir.
05:20Thank you, sir.
05:20Thank you, sir.
05:21Thank you, sir.
05:21Thank you, sir.
05:22Thank you, sir.
05:23Thank you, sir.
05:23Thank you, sir.
05:24He is much too popular in this family for my liking.
05:27Thank you, sir.
05:27Last time you were keeping on our sofa.
05:28We need another place for surprise.
05:30Do we need another chair?
05:31Right.
05:32We've done it.
05:33Oh, I'll ask.
05:34What do you think about these people coming from the tree?
05:48Yvonne Carmichael.
05:49Yes.
05:50I'm DI Cleveland, West Thames Murder Investigation Unit.
05:53This is my colleague, DS Brown.
05:55I'm arresting you on suspicion of the murder of George Selway.
05:57Murder?
06:07Hang on.
06:08Hang on.
06:09There must be something wrong.
06:10Wait, no.
06:11You're just...
06:12All right, all right.
06:13It's just a mistake.
06:14Grab your stuff.
06:15Grab your stuff.
06:16Grab your stuff.
06:17Grab your stuff.
06:18Get your car.
06:19Come on.
06:20Come on.
06:21Tell us what you did this morning, Yvonne.
06:22I took some clothes to the recycling depot.
06:23Then went for a drive.
06:24You just fancied a drive?
06:25That's right.
06:26After I'd done the recycling.
06:27Where?
06:28Just around.
06:29I don't remember.
06:30Around.
06:31I see.
06:32Was anyone in the car with you?
06:33No.
06:34You do know we've arrested Mark Costley.
06:35Were you there when Mark Costley was there?
06:38No.
06:39No.
06:40No.
06:41No.
06:42No.
06:43No.
06:44No.
06:45No.
06:46No.
06:47No.
06:48No.
06:49No.
06:50No.
06:51No.
06:52No.
06:53No.
06:54No.
06:55No.
06:56No.
06:57No.
06:58No.
06:59No.
07:00No.
07:01No.
07:02No.
07:03No.
07:04No.
07:05No.
07:06No.
07:07No.
07:08No.
07:09No.
07:10No.
07:11It's very easy for us to check all this out, you know, who was in the car with you,
07:14where you were.
07:15That's even before we've had a proper chat with Costley.
07:17God knows what he'll have to say for himself.
07:19Me.
07:20One, two, three, two, three.
07:21No.
07:22No.
07:23No.
07:24No.
07:25No.
07:26No.
07:27No.
07:28No.
07:29No.
07:30No.
07:31No.
07:32No.
07:33No.
07:34No.
07:35No.
07:36No.
07:37No.
07:38No.
07:39No.
07:40No.
07:41What's your relationship to Mark Costley, Yvonne?
07:42What's your relationship to Mark Costley, Yvonne?
07:47He's a friend.
07:48What kind of friend?
07:49Just a friend.
07:50I haven't known him very well.
07:51Would you describe him as a good friend?
07:53He's become quite a good friend, yes.
07:55A lover?
07:56No.
07:57I met him when I was working in the House of Commons.
08:02He asked my advice about a niece of his who was considering a career in science.
08:07So why was he in your car going to George Selway's house?
08:11Since Mark worked in security, I asked him for advice.
08:24He agreed to help me out.
08:27To warn George Selway off.
08:29Why would you want him to do that?
08:41George Selway attacked me.
08:44So, you and Mark Costley were an item. You were sleeping together.
09:03No.
09:04I've told you.
09:05You were having an affair and he went nuts when he found out about you and George.
09:10Isn't that right?
09:11There was no me and George.
09:14I told you George Selway attacked me.
09:17And then he started stalking me.
09:20And I went to Mark Costley because of his background in security.
09:23And I asked for his advice.
09:25That's not what he told us.
09:27Just stick to the story.
09:38Trust me.
09:39We weren't sleeping together.
09:44And if he told you we were, I think you'd be confronting me with details.
09:56Just for that moment, I doubted you.
09:59Just for that split second.
10:02Forgive me, my love.
10:07Just for it, Dylan.
10:08Dylan Johnson and Waterford.
10:09You can call me Jazz.
10:12I can tell you your husband is an extremely persistent man.
10:18Gary contacted you.
10:20Yeah.
10:21Not just the ones either.
10:22Now, good news.
10:25We've started your bail application.
10:27How long is that going to take?
10:28That's the less good news.
10:30Magistrates hearing first, probably a couple of nights in Holloway.
10:33Then bail hearing proper.
10:36We'll get you home if we possibly can.
10:39Oh, thank God.
10:40Sorry.
10:44Would you like some water?
10:57They keep talking about murder, but I wasn't even in the house.
11:01Surely forensics will tell them that.
11:04It doesn't matter, Yvonne.
11:05The prosecution will argue that you and Costley cooked up the idea to kill Selway together.
11:11That you drove the car, the getaway car, effectively.
11:14That is not what happened.
11:15I didn't even know he was dead.
11:17I swear I didn't.
11:18It...
11:19The worst I thought was...
11:21Mark might have knocked him about a bit.
11:25And we'll establish all that when the case comes to court.
11:28For the moment, let's focus on bail, yeah?
11:34I'm just about persuaded to give bail in the particular circumstances of this case,
11:38despite the seriousness of the charge, due to the defendant's previous excellent character and everything else that's been said.
11:44You're to reside at your normal address, and you must surrender your passport and pay into court a security in the sum of £100,000.
11:53I understand it's all in hand, my lady.
11:55You will also abide by a curfew between the hours of 8pm and 8am.
12:01Above all, Dr Carmichael, you are not to contact directly or indirectly Mark, Liam, Costley, or any of the prosecution witnesses.
12:11Is that clear?
12:12Yes, my lady, thank you.
12:15How on earth did you get hold of a hundred grand?
12:45I cashed in those bonds.
12:50And Ray and Tita have come up trumps, actually.
12:53Of course. You didn't ask them, did you?
12:55Well, what else could I do?
12:58People have been amazing.
13:03Adam.
13:08He's been a bit old for six.
13:12But fine.
13:13I've talked to him quite a lot.
13:19What about Kerry?
13:20I'm coming to her.
13:30I've got him.
13:30I've got him.
13:31I've got him.
13:32I've got him.
13:33I've got him.
13:33This is lovely, thank you.
14:03It's delicious.
14:10Why didn't you go to the police about the rape?
14:13Carrying up.
14:14Maybe your mum's not ready to talk about that right at the moment.
14:17I haven't had a chance to talk to Dan about it properly yet.
14:28I had my reasons.
14:31I mean, didn't you feel a responsibility to the other women this man was working with
14:37to come forward if he was a threat to them?
14:41And this other man, what's his name?
14:43Mark Costley.
14:44Just roping in some random weirdo. What was that about?
14:46He's not a weirdo.
14:47But you didn't even know him properly. What were you thinking?
14:49I don't know. I don't know.
14:52Carrie, I wasn't thinking about my responsibilities.
15:02I could barely put one foot in front of the other.
15:08And sometimes women aren't served brilliantly by the legal system.
15:12Whatever they say about new approaches in the caring face of the force.
15:17I just couldn't face it.
15:23I didn't have the courage.
15:29I'm just trying to understand it.
15:35I just don't get why you went to him.
16:03Of course, Lou.
16:07I knew that if I told you what had happened, you'd want me to go to the police.
16:15When did it happen?
16:19It was that party at Central.
16:25Jonathan's leaving too.
16:27He was a senior researcher there.
16:29You'd probably heard me mention him.
16:31Oh, Jesus.
16:35You're fine.
16:40I mean, the police, I understand what you're saying to Carrie, but surely we could have spoken about it.
16:50At first, I didn't want the rest of my life to be contaminated by what he did.
17:03As long as I didn't bring it into the house, then I could pretend it never happened.
17:09And then I took advice.
17:13From Costley?
17:15No.
17:16No.
17:17From a police officer that he put me in touch with.
17:24I see it all the time.
17:27Women like me, who don't want to have their lives dragged through the courts.
17:31Yeah, thank God we're not going to be dragged through the courts.
17:35Thank God you spared us from that.
17:38I'm sorry.
17:43It's all gone so good.
17:50Oh, my God, he's dead.
17:53He's actually dead.
17:56It's not your fault, none of this.
18:06It's your fault.
18:07Here.
18:09It's not true, Gary.
18:12It isn't.
18:15You weren't even there when that happened, were you?
18:19No.
18:21No.
18:27George, so he raped you.
18:31It all goes from there.
18:35We're going to do everything.
18:40Everything we can, okay?
18:56Apparently, lolly sticks are good.
19:08For scratching.
19:13Stalish.
19:14We had word from Mark Hossley's team about his plea.
19:24Looks like he's going for diminished responsibility.
19:29He's saying he's not guilty of murder.
19:32Well, good.
19:33Because he isn't.
19:34He couldn't be.
19:35Do you know that?
19:37Well, it makes no sense.
19:39Why not self-defence?
19:40Well, I have to say Mark Hossley's defence is a matter for him and his solicitors.
19:45My job is to defend you.
19:46But if we're being charged together...
19:49Hossley's effectively pleading guilty to manslaughter by going for diminished responsibility as his defence.
19:55So we'll both be charged with always manslaughter?
19:57No.
19:58If they accept Hossley's plea, and that's by no means guaranteed, they still can come after you for murder.
20:04Because your defences are entirely separate.
20:07But it's not all doom and gloom.
20:10At the very least, if they accept him as responsibility, it makes our lives easier.
20:14You're saying you had no idea Hossley was going to kill George Selway,
20:17and Hossley is admitting that he acted on a reckless impulse of his own.
20:21You...
20:40You are my knight in shining armour.
20:46You've admitted you acted alone.
20:50Keeping me safe...
20:55Again.
20:56Even though you use a sighting and alienation.
20:57I was scared to keep them out of your?
21:01We used to succeed.
21:02That uses the semi neighbourly...
21:04You end up with the semi neighbouring and he could revolt out.
21:07And he had a THEY REVIEW.
21:09You Mach ox.
21:13You're selling lower.
21:15But your head is Oklasmита,
21:18so he wants to reboot.
21:20Why are you responsible for youraimer?
21:22I blew my mind up on that one.
21:24Oh, love, love. How are you?
21:27I can't see you.
21:28Daddy's here, love.
21:34Seth and him's going to go part-time after the baby's born.
21:37It's his baby too.
21:39Of course it is. That's great.
21:42No, that's great. I'm...
21:45I'm a bit chance, actually.
21:49Well, your dad does a lot for the two of you when you were babies,
21:53but it was always basically assumed that you were my territory.
22:02I'm so sorry. All of this is such terrible timing for you.
22:07I mean, no timing would be good, but this is god-awful.
22:12Ajay, Asafnam's brother, he has this friend from uni trained as a barrister.
22:26We've got a barrister.
22:27Well, he does consultancy now, sort of PR,
22:29helping people to make a good impression in court.
22:32Dad asked me to get his number.
22:34The two of you have discussed it.
22:39You really think that I need help making a good impression?
22:43Shall I send it to you or dad?
22:45The thing to remember is I'm innocent.
22:47Of course you are.
22:50He seems quite young.
23:04Yeah, well, he would be.
23:07Just remember, love, he's costing a fortune.
23:23Don't get all competitive with him.
23:26Vaughan?
23:28Competitive.
23:29Can't let him do his job, let me help you.
23:30That's what he's here for.
23:31Yeah.
23:32Hi, Lawrence.
23:33Yes, that's right.
23:34Hi, I'm Gary.
23:35I'm Lamont.
23:36So, Yvonne, are you guilty?
23:41No, Lawrence.
23:42I am not.
23:43Cool.
23:44That's what we want to see in court.
23:48Firm, but polite.
23:49No hint of doubt.
23:50First impressions are incredibly important.
23:52I'm not.
23:53I'm not.
23:54I'm not.
23:55I'm not.
23:56I'm not.
23:57I'm not.
23:58I'm not.
23:59I'm not.
24:00I'm not.
24:01I'm not.
24:02I'm not.
24:03I'm not.
24:04I'm not.
24:05I'm not.
24:06I'm not.
24:07I'm not.
24:08I'm not.
24:09First impressions are incredibly important.
24:11Aren't they just?
24:12So, on that subject, is there anything Yvonne should be thinking of in court?
24:19The jury.
24:20Always.
24:21Little tip.
24:22When you're in the witness box, point your feet towards the jury.
24:26Then you'll automatically address your answers towards them.
24:29It's all about making a connection.
24:32You might want to jot this down.
24:34Anything in particular that she should be wearing?
24:37Uh, well, we want the jury to see your feminine side.
24:40Oh, Jesus.
24:41Uh, ribbons?
24:43Lace?
24:44Uh, perhaps a blouse with a bit of embellishment.
24:48Uh, nothing too low cut, obviously.
24:51Uh, something that's appropriate to your, uh, age under a suit.
24:55Uh, but not to flash or designer.
24:58We don't want people thinking you need taking down a peg or two.
25:01People only judge you 30% on what you say.
25:0470% is how you look.
25:07Uh, the women particularly can be very hard on other women.
25:10Talking of, I-I don't know if the prosecuting counsel will be a man or a woman.
25:15But if it is a woman, the jury will be more likely to think you're guilty during cross-examination about the rape.
25:20Uh, you know, this nice lady barrister wouldn't be taking this on if she really thought this man had done something terrible.
25:27I also imagine this strategy won't have escaped Mr. Costley's defense team.
25:34He may well have a female silk.
25:36You do know how violent the rape was?
25:39Yes.
25:40I've got the details.
25:44I'm sure your solicitor has been through this with you, Yvonne, but, uh, legally speaking, I'm afraid it does make your case rather worse.
25:54An attack of this severity gives you such a strong reason for killing Selway.
25:59So, basically, everything that should be in Yvonne's favor is going to go against her?
26:06Exactly.
26:12Of course, one thing the rape doesn't explain is why Mark Costley killed Selway.
26:19Why did your co-defendant act as he did?
26:24He was warning off George Selway as a favor to me.
26:28Quite a favor.
26:30You hadn't known each other that long, had you?
26:34No, a few months.
26:36Hmm.
26:38The prosecution could try to claim you were lying about the whole thing.
26:43That you and Selway had consensual sex and you were spinning Costley a yarn to get him into trouble.
26:50Why the hell would the Bond do that unless you was a lunatic?
26:53Who knows?
26:55You were annoyed with Selway because he didn't call you afterwards, da-da-da-da-da-da. The usual.
26:59The usual?
27:00I'm just playing devil's advocate here.
27:03Why didn't you report the rape in the first case if there was evidence? It's a big problem.
27:07And if there wasn't evidence, does that mean you didn't fight back?
27:11Why not?
27:13We see it the whole time. You ladies do make our job rather difficult.
27:17What are you thinking, Lawrence?
27:20Shall I tell you what's going on in your head biologically?
27:23There's a part of your brain, the amygdala, it's telling you to do whatever you need to do to survive.
27:28It's like a siren. Survive, survive.
27:31So loud, in fact, it's drowning out your cerebral cortex, your logical brain.
27:36Your cortex knows, I'm not gonna cut your throat. Why would I do that?
27:41My family's in enough trouble as it is.
27:43But the amygdala is pure instinct.
27:46It feels the damage the skin do.
27:49There's nothing good than a peanut.
27:52You're taken by surprise.
27:55Afraid for your life.
27:59We're programmed to do whatever will ensure our survival.
28:05And sometimes...
28:08That's nothing.
28:22It's gonna be okay.
28:23It's all gonna be okay.
28:27I'm sorry.
28:28I'm sorry.
28:29I'm sorry.
28:33I'm sorry.
28:34I'm sorry.
28:35I'm sorry.
28:38I'm sorry.
28:39I'm sorry.
28:40I'm sorry.
28:45I'm sorry.
28:52I'm sorry.
28:53I'm sorry.
28:54I'm sorry.
28:55I'm sorry.
28:56I'm sorry.
28:57I'm sorry.
28:58I'm sorry.
29:30Oh.
29:33Oh!
29:36Oh!
29:38Oh!
29:40Oh, my God!
29:41I'm so sorry.
29:42It was the time.
29:43Oh, my God.
29:45Oh, my God.
29:48Oh.
29:51Oh.
29:53Are you OK?
29:58Are you okay?
30:10If at any point during the trial, I don't want you to be there.
30:16I want you to promise that you'll stay away.
30:21But you know I want to be there for the whole thing.
30:24Please.
30:26And from what Jas has said, and that little shit-tail about making the right impression, it's important.
30:32I'm seen to be standing by your side.
30:35I know.
30:37But I don't think I could bear it.
30:39If I have to talk about what George Selway did.
30:47Please.
30:50Okay.
30:55Would you have seen it as the betrayal if Gary and I had made love?
31:09Because one thing I do know, you haven't betrayed me.
31:12Don't betray me.
31:13Don't betray me.
31:14Don't betray me.
31:15But this is too scary.
31:16Welcome to the hospital.
31:17I have no idea.
31:18You're a great person.
31:19I have no idea.
31:20You don't have to cater.
31:21I know.
31:22Do you see the problem?
31:23It's a small family.
31:24It's a great person that she has made.
31:25It's a great person.
31:27I know.
31:28It's a great person.
31:30It's a great person.
31:31No, ma'am, that's a great show, isn't it?
31:38It was me that lost it.
31:41Yeah, I know we had to be here again.
31:44Babe.
31:46Oh, I'm so sorry.
31:49I'm so sorry.
31:52I'm so sorry.
31:55I'm so sorry.
31:58You don't have to talk about it if you don't want to.
32:03God.
32:04But if you do, I'm here.
32:07I wish I'd talked to you.
32:10I wish I'd talked to you about everything.
32:13Well, like my mum says, still waters run deep.
32:18She doesn't know the half of it.
32:21I'll get it.
32:24Yvonne!
32:27Yvonne Carmichael, I'm arresting you for breaching the conditions of your bail.
32:31I'll call Jaspreet.
32:33You might want to get a few things together for it.
32:35What are you doing?
32:36Look, there is no need for that.
32:37It's crazy.
32:38I haven't done anything.
32:39I haven't done anything.
32:40I'll be right behind you in the car, love.
32:42Suze, could you give me a hand, please?
32:46Mark Costley sent you a text from prison and you replied.
32:49Is that right?
32:50I got a text from a number that I didn't recognise and I just asked who it was.
32:56And you sent a second text.
33:00It doesn't matter.
33:01The point is, he made contact and you responded, which is breaching the conditions of your bail.
33:06He's not even supposed to have a phone in prison, is he?
33:09Well, clearly you've got hold of one.
33:11I'm sorry, Yvonne.
33:12You'll be kept in Holloway on remand.
33:15At least we're close to a trial, though.
33:27It could be deliberate on Costley's part, tit for tat.
33:29He's in prison, so why not you?
33:31He's not like that.
33:34Isn't he?
33:45He has a niece that's good at science, is that right?
33:48Yeah.
33:52My oldest daughter's into science.
33:54It's always good to hear.
33:55Yeah.
33:57Yes, she showed me this thing.
34:00I'm not sure she should be watching it, to be honest with you, but I suppose it's educational.
34:08You've probably seen it.
34:09This American who did experiments with monkeys in the 1950s on animal behaviour.
34:14Rice, I think he was called.
34:15It's not really my field, animal behaviour.
34:17There's a mother with a baby, and there's a heating element on the floor of the monkey cage.
34:26Pretty horrible, actually.
34:29No Wi-Fi.
34:37I think it's supposed to be an experiment in altruism.
34:40They keep increasing the temperature of the cage floor.
34:43The worst thing is, in the end, when its feet are burning, I suppose it's in so much pain, the monkey, it just drops its baby and stands on it.
34:54Jesus.
34:55The colour of the monkey, it's in so much pain.
34:56Jesus.
34:59It still was interesting, though.
35:01A tipping point and self-preservation.
35:04You think Mark Horsley's reached his tipping point?
35:09just a bit more.
35:12That's worth bearing in mind.
35:20The text Mark Horsley sent you,
35:23what did it mean, anyway?
35:26The Vedicid experiment?
35:27Oh, um, well, it was just an experiment
35:30that I was involved in early on in my career.
35:34I must have told him about it
35:36when we were talking about his niece.
35:40The one who's interested in science.
35:44Like your daughter.
35:59You were definitely
36:00the first person
36:03to qualify
36:05a Vedicid experiment.
36:07No tipping point
36:20for either of us.
36:24You wanted to let me know
36:25that you're keeping the faith.
36:27How can I blame you for that?
36:29I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
36:30I'm sorry, I just don't know
36:32what you're doing.
36:32I'm sorry.
36:33I'm sorry.
36:34But I guess what you
36:36wanted to have,
36:37to start up in my career
36:38and one of the worst
36:39may be箱awan
36:40ever,
36:42��mono
36:43and the best
36:45ever.
36:45Or does it have changed
36:46just because of course
36:47and the world
36:49is appropriate.
36:50But then what you
36:52have is a Конечно
36:54good
36:55too.
36:56So the order of the prosecution witnesses
37:17Feeling okay, Yvonne?
37:22I'm relieved that we're starting
37:24But I'm dreading it
37:26Of course
37:27But do bear in mind
37:28The jury will be able to see you throughout
37:30Just try to stay composed if you can
37:32What are special measures?
37:38Yes, that's the witness that needs to retain anonymity
37:41The MI5 man, yes?
37:42Yeah
37:43Exciting times
37:54The MI5 man, yes?
38:09I don't know.
38:39I don't know.
39:09All persons having anything to do at the Central Criminal Court, draw near and give your
39:31attendance.
39:32I don't know.
39:33I don't know.
39:34I don't know.
39:35I don't know.
39:36I don't know.
39:37I don't know.
39:38I don't know.
39:39I don't know.
39:40I don't know.
39:41I don't know.
39:42I don't know.
39:43I don't know.
39:44I don't know.
39:45I don't know.
39:46I don't know.
39:47I don't know.
39:48I don't know.
39:49I don't know.
39:50I don't know.
39:51I don't know.
39:52I don't know.
39:53I don't know.
39:54I don't know.
39:55I don't know.
39:56I don't know.
39:57I don't know.
39:58I don't know.
39:59I don't know.
40:00I don't know.
40:01I don't know.
40:02I don't know.
40:03I don't know.
40:04I don't know.
40:05I don't know.
40:06I don't know.
40:07I don't know.
40:08I don't know.
40:09I don't know.
40:10I don't know.
40:11I don't know.
40:12But you know you're going to leave.
40:13You fucking bitch.
40:15You deserve everything you get.
40:18You bitch.
40:19You evil bitch.
40:20Look at what you're doing to all of us.
40:21I have two children at home who have broken their hearts because their father is there
40:27It's there that you have got into your mess!
40:42My lord, ladies and gentlemen,
40:46you will hear two defences being offered in this court.
40:50You will hear medical evidence concerning the claim
40:53of the first defendant, Mark Liam Costley,
40:56that he shall be found not guilty of murder
40:58on grounds of diminished responsibility,
41:02that he is not responsible for the killing of George Selway
41:05because he has a personality disorder.
41:08His defence will argue that he is mentally unstable.
41:12You will also hear evidence from the second defendant,
41:15Yvonne Carmichael, that she is entirely innocent,
41:19that she knew nothing of Mr Costley's intentions
41:22when she drove him to the doorstep of a man
41:25who had viciously assaulted her.
41:28When questioned by the police,
41:30this eminent scientist claimed that she had no idea
41:35what might be going on
41:36when she sat waiting in her car outside that property.
41:41Waiting.
41:41The police were told that she had no thought whatsoever
41:51something might be amiss
41:52when Mr Costley took so long to return,
41:55having changed some of his clothing,
41:58but having neglected to change his shoes,
42:01the shoes that transferred blood to the mat
42:04in the footwell of her car.
42:07The prosecution's case,
42:10this is all nonsense.
42:13Mark Liam Costley and Yvonne Carmichael
42:15planned and connived quite coldly and in advance
42:18that one would do the deed
42:20and the other would drive the getaway car.
42:22Each encouraged and facilitated the other's behaviour.
42:26And each, therefore, is as guilty as the other
42:29of the murder of George Simon Selway.
42:38It might be an idea to get something down,
42:40if you can, Dr Carmichael.
42:42After lunch, we're in for the long haul.
42:44Ladies and gentlemen,
42:45may I invite you to turn to the first page of the jury...
42:48Maps, photographs, forensic diagrams.
42:51There's nothing to worry about.
42:54Smoke and mirrors.
42:58Prosecution just won a hammer at home,
43:00essentially guilty, guilty, guilty.
43:02The woman you saw sitting in the car
43:03outside George Selway's flat,
43:05can you point her out to the court, please?
43:11I'm afraid Miss Bonnard, Mr Costley's barrister,
43:13might pile on the agony a bit as well.
43:15Brand new silk.
43:16They always want to cross-examine every single witness.
43:19Isn't that what you'll be doing?
43:21No.
43:22I have no questions for the witness, my lord.
43:27No cross-exam from us.
43:29An innocent woman doesn't need to get bogged down
43:31in the sordid details.
43:34That's our message.
43:38Can you clarify, Dr Weatherfield,
43:40what kind of force would have been needed
43:42to cause this level of injury
43:44to the victim's neck area?
43:46It would have to be a blunt trauma injury
43:48of some force,
43:49consistent with stamping
43:51while the victim was face up on the floor.
43:53And how can you tell that this force
43:55would have been considerable?
43:57The bruising.
43:58You can see the clear imprint
44:00of the attacker's trainer on the torso,
44:02and the victim's voice box was shattered.
44:05In order to sustain that level of injury,
44:09I would say that the person applying the force
44:11would perhaps have been jumping
44:13while he or she stamped on him.
44:16What was the extent of the injury to the nose?
44:19The nose was almost certainly broken by a blow
44:22before the victim was on the ground,
44:24perhaps as a way of initiating the attack.
44:27There was considerable blood from the nose
44:29on the victim's clothes.
44:32Once he was on his back,
44:33that wouldn't have flowed vertically down his clothes.
44:39No further questions, my lord.
44:41My lord, I have no questions for this witness.
44:43How did it go so far?
44:56Did he provoke you?
44:59Is this what you've been trained to do?
45:01Do you know this, um, experiment?
45:29Rice.
45:29Um, animal behaviour, it's 1950s, I think.
45:34Rice.
45:35Yeah.
45:36Um, is that the one with the monkeys?
45:40Hmm.
45:41What's that got to do with anything?
45:43It's just been in my head,
45:45and I don't really get to talk to anybody in here.
45:48I'm not in court for that matter either.
45:51Have you seen the footage?
45:53Yeah, I'm not sure.
45:56Maybe years ago.
45:57Yeah.
45:58It's the one with the heated cage, right?
45:59Mm.
46:01Um, yeah.
46:02But it's extraordinary.
46:03Really?
46:04That's not the word I'd use.
46:05Well, I mean, the experiment's horrific.
46:07They wouldn't get away with it these days,
46:09but the outcome is pretty amazing.
46:12The power of maternal love.
46:13You're kidding her.
46:14I thought the whole point was that the monkey drops the baby.
46:16No, she saves the baby.
46:19I remember reading about it.
46:20She holds the baby in the air and lets her feet burn.
46:26If it's the same experiment.
46:27I wish I could make you feel safe.
46:46I feel safe.
46:50I do.
46:52I feel safe here.
46:54With you.
46:59I know you.
47:03You're not a monster.
47:04And once everyone else knows what you are,
47:11they'll understand.
47:14Members of the jury,
47:16this witness is to give evidence behind a screen.
47:18You'll be able to see the witness,
47:20however the defendants and the gallery will not.
47:23Thank you for your patience
47:24while we make the necessary adjustments.
47:28Witness A,
47:29can you please tell us what your job is?
47:33My title is Chief Training Operative MI5.
47:36Can you explain for us
47:37what a Chief Training Operative is or does?
47:40There are various roles,
47:41but my particular responsibility
47:42is to oversee the testing we put operatives through,
47:45both physical and psychological,
47:47as part of the selection process for MI5.
47:50And how do you go about finding out
47:52whether or not a given person
47:53is suitable for a career in MI5?
47:55I understand that the precise methods are confidential,
47:58but if you could please give the court a general idea.
48:02Well, we begin with psychological questionnaires,
48:05interviews and so on.
48:06Physical tests?
48:07Well, yes, of course.
48:09Then candidates who make the first cut
48:11move to a more extended period of training.
48:14Witness A, do you know the defendant, Mark Costley?
48:18Yes, I met Mr. Costley in the autumn of 2008
48:20when he applied to join the security services.
48:22He made the first cut, as you would say.
48:25Yes.
48:26I was responsible for assessing his application,
48:28not exclusively, but I was the supervising officer.
48:31Could you tell us a little more about the training
48:33Mr. Costley underwent,
48:34so far as you're permitted to say?
48:36Well, candidates attend seminars, lectures,
48:39and they also undergo a period of
48:40more what you might call interactive training.
48:43Does this include combat training?
48:45There's a basic level of combat training.
48:47Now, of course, Mr. Costley
48:48had spent some years in the police force,
48:49so he was already familiar with some of the principles.
48:52Indeed.
48:52Would this level of training give an individual
48:56an advantage over what you might call
48:58an average citizen in a fight?
49:01Well, that's rather what it's designed to do, yes.
49:03To be clear,
49:05does combat training,
49:06as opposed to what Mr. Costley would have been taught
49:09as part of this police officer safety training,
49:12include a technique for breaking an assailant's nose
49:15with the palm of one's hand?
49:17That's one of the techniques disseminated, yes.
49:19And in assessing Mark Costley,
49:22did you find him suitable
49:23to the physical requirements of an MI5 officer?
49:26Yes, we did.
49:28During the time you were assessing Mr. Costley,
49:30did you ever feel sufficient concern
49:32about his mental stability
49:34to raise the issue with his line manager
49:37in the Metropolitan Police Force?
49:39His mental stability?
49:41I'm sorry, I don't...
49:42quite see where you're heading with this.
49:45I mean, it really wasn't my road...
49:46I'm asking if you were happy enough
49:48with Mark Costley's mental state
49:50to allow him to continue working as a police officer
49:53and then to move on into a sensitive position
49:56involving the security and the safety
49:58of our members of Parliament,
50:00despite your final decision
50:02to reject his application to join MI5.
50:05Yes, it was purely for me
50:16to turn him down
50:17as an unsuitable candidate
50:19for the security services.
50:28I wasn't fucking a spook.
50:29The spooks didn't want you.
50:39All the ways you made yourself mysterious.
50:42Facing the wrong way.
50:44Risk assessment.
50:46The phones.
50:47The safe house.
50:53Why?
50:54I believed you.
50:58Everything about you.
51:00Who are you?
51:02Really?
51:07What have I done?
51:08What have I done?
51:08What have I done?
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