- 6 months ago
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00:00You're in there for ages, what happened?
00:15Drive. Now, now.
00:19Just go, go, go, go.
00:25What is it?
00:26Just go, go, go, go.
00:27What's wrong? What happened?
00:30What did he say?
00:38No, listen, everything's under control.
00:39Just, if it comes to it, if it comes to it,
00:42just stick to the same story as with Kevin, all right?
00:44We met through work.
00:46We talked about my niece.
00:48You asked my advice because of my contact insecurity.
00:52That's it. End of story.
00:54I'll say exactly the same thing.
00:57Do we need to call the police?
00:58No, just trust me, Yvonne.
01:02Trust me.
01:03We'd better not be in touch for a while.
01:19It's weird. We'd better not be in touch for a while.
01:34Just in case, give me your phone. Give it to me.
01:49Everything's gonna be okay. Don't just stick to the story.
01:52Okay.
01:53All right?
02:01It's gonna be fine. I'll see you in Upper Tree Yard.
02:08Mark?
02:37I don't know if Estado is going to.
03:12I'm, um, going out for a bit.
03:28Right.
03:29Are we still on for tonight?
03:36It's Aethnum's birthday.
03:38Well, are you all right?
03:40Oh, God.
03:41Yeah.
03:42I'm sorry.
03:43I'm sorry.
03:45Hormone brain.
03:46Yes.
03:47I've booked a table.
03:49All you can eat.
03:52Great.
03:59Mind me what we've got him again.
04:00That speaker he wanted.
04:02It's the same one we've got in the kitchen.
04:04Oh, yes, yes.
04:05Excellent.
04:06Excellent.
04:07You should know this thing with Rosa.
04:14Whatever it is, it's not serious.
04:17Right.
04:18Right.
04:19She knows how I feel about you.
04:21I've made it very clear.
04:25Right.
04:26I'm sorry.
04:27Well, I'm sorry.
04:28Well, I really am.
04:34Been through worse.
04:36Mm-hmm.
04:37With Adam.
04:38I'm sorry.
04:39I'm sorry.
04:40Well, I really am.
04:43Been through worse.
04:45Mm-hmm.
04:46With Adam.
04:51With Adam.
05:08Get a broom, you two.
05:10Hey, how are you doing?
05:13Happy birthday.
05:14Happy birthday.
05:16Thank you very much.
05:17I didn't know you were coming.
05:18Stealing the limelight from Sathnam.
05:19He is much too popular in this family for my liking.
05:22Last time you were keeping our sofa.
05:23Do we need another place to surprise?
05:24Do we need another chair?
05:25Right.
05:26We've done it.
05:27Hola.
05:28Hi.
05:29Hi.
05:30Hi.
05:31Hi.
05:32Hi.
05:33Oh we've done it.
05:34Hola.
05:35Yvonne Carmichael.
05:50Yes.
05:51I'm DI Cleveland, West Thames Murder Investigation Unit.
05:53This is my colleague DS Brown.
05:55I'm arresting you on suspicion of the murder of George Selway.
05:58Murder?
06:05I'm sorry.
06:08Hang on.
06:09Hang on.
06:10There must be some.
06:11Wait, no.
06:19Wait, no.
06:20All right, all right.
06:21It's just a mistake.
06:22Grab your stuff.
06:23Grab your stuff.
06:24Grab your stuff.
06:25Get your car.
06:26Come on.
06:27Tell us what you did this morning, Yvonne.
06:28I took some clothes to the recycling depot.
06:30Then went for a drive.
06:32You just fancied a drive?
06:34That's right.
06:35After I'd done the recycling.
06:40Where?
06:43Just around.
06:44I don't remember.
06:45Around?
06:47I see.
06:48Was anyone in the car with you?
06:50No.
06:53You do know we've arrested Mark Costley?
06:59Were you there when Mark Costley beat and kicked George Selway to death, Yvonne?
07:03No.
07:07No.
07:09No.
07:10It's very easy for us to check all this out.
07:12You know, who was in the car with you, where you were.
07:14That's even before we've had a proper chat with Costley.
07:16God knows what he'll have to say for himself.
07:18Me.
07:19So, are you telling me that's not you?
07:20In your car?
07:21What's your relationship to Mark Costley, Yvonne?
07:22He's a friend.
07:23What kind of friend?
07:24Just a friend.
07:25I haven't known him very well.
07:26Would you describe him as a good friend?
07:28He's become quite a good friend, yes.
07:29A lover?
07:30A lover?
07:31No.
07:32I...
07:33I met him when I was working in the House of Commons.
07:35Um...
07:36He asked my advice about a niece of his wife.
07:37He's a good friend.
07:38He's a good friend.
07:39He's become quite a good friend, yes.
07:40A lover?
07:41A lover?
07:42A lover.
07:43No.
07:44I...
07:45I met him when I was working in the House of Commons.
07:48Uh...
07:49He asked my advice about a niece of his who was considering a career in science.
07:54So, why was he in your car, going to George Selway's house?
07:57A lover?
07:58A lover.
07:59A lover.
08:00A lover.
08:01A lover.
08:02A lover.
08:03A lover.
08:04A lover.
08:05A lover.
08:06A lover.
08:07A lover.
08:08A lover.
08:09A lover.
08:10Celaway's house.
08:15A lover.
08:16Since Mark worked in security I asked him for advice.
08:24He agreed to help me out.
08:26To wander herself up.
08:29Why would you want him to do that?
08:40George Selway attacked me.
09:00So, you and Mark costly were an item. You were sleeping together.
09:04No, I've told you.
09:06You were having an affair and he went nuts when he found out about you and George, isn't that right?
09:12There was no me and George.
09:14I told you George Selway attacked me.
09:17And then he started stalking me.
09:20And I went to Mark costly because of his background in security and asked for his advice.
09:25That's not what he told us.
09:36Just stick to the story. Trust me.
09:42We weren't sleeping together.
09:45And if he told you we were, I think you'd be confronting me with details.
09:48Just for that moment, I doubted you. Just for that split second.
10:02Forgive me, my love.
10:03Just for it, Dylan. Dylan Johnson and Waterford. You can call me Jazz.
10:10I can tell you, your husband is an extremely persistent man.
10:18Gary contacted you.
10:19Yeah, not just the ones either.
10:21Now, good news. We've started your bail application.
10:26How long is that going to take?
10:28That's the less good news.
10:30Magistrates hearing first, probably a couple of nights in Holloway.
10:33Then bail hearing proper.
10:36We'll get you home if we possibly can.
10:38Oh, thank God.
10:40Sorry.
10:44Would you like some water?
10:46They keep talking about murder, but I wasn't even in the house.
11:01Surely forensics will tell them that.
11:04It doesn't matter, Yvonne.
11:05The prosecution will argue that you and Costley cooked up the idea to kill Selway together.
11:12That you drove the car, the getaway car, effectively.
11:14That is not what happened. I didn't even know he was dead.
11:17I swear I didn't.
11:19The worst I thought was...
11:22Mark might have knocked him about a bit.
11:26And we'll establish all that when the case comes to court.
11:28For the moment, let's focus on bail, yeah?
11:34I'm just about persuaded to give bail in the particular circumstances of this case,
11:38despite the seriousness of the charge,
11:40due to the defendant's previous excellent character and everything else that's been said.
11:45You're to reside at your normal address,
11:47and you must surrender your passport and pay into court a security in the sum of £100,000.
11:53I understand it's all in hand, m'lady.
11:55You will also abide by a curfew between the hours of 8pm and 8am.
12:01Above all, Dr Carmichael, you are not to contact directly or indirectly Mark, Liam, Costley,
12:08or any of the prosecution witnesses.
12:11Is that clear?
12:12Yes, my lady, thank you.
12:43How on earth did you get hold of £100,000?
12:47Cashed in those bonds.
12:50And Ray and Tita have come up trumps, actually.
12:53Of course, you didn't ask them, did you?
12:55Well, what else could I do?
12:58People have been amazing.
13:03Adam.
13:04He's been a bit old for six.
13:12But fine.
13:14I've talked to him quite a lot.
13:20What about Kerry?
13:34This is lovely. Thank you.
14:04It's delicious.
14:05Hmm.
14:10Why didn't you go to the police about the rape?
14:13Carrying up.
14:14Maybe your mum's not ready to talk about that right at the moment.
14:18I haven't had a chance to talk to Dan about it properly yet.
14:29I had my reasons.
14:31But, erm, I mean, didn't you feel a responsibility
14:36to the other women this man was working with to come forward
14:39if he was a threat to them?
14:42And this other man, what's his name?
14:44Mark Costley.
14:45Just roping in some random weirdo.
14:46What was that about?
14:47He's not a weirdo.
14:48But you didn't even know him properly.
14:49What were you thinking?
14:50I don't know. I don't know.
14:57Kerry.
14:58I wasn't thinking about my responsibilities.
15:02I could barely put one foot in front of the other.
15:08And sometimes women aren't served brilliantly by the legal system.
15:13Whatever they say about new approaches
15:15and the caring face of the force.
15:21I just couldn't face it.
15:23I didn't have the courage.
15:33I'm just trying to understand it.
15:40I'm going to go and have a bath.
15:41I just don't get why you went to him.
16:02Of course, Lou.
16:03I knew that if I told you what had happened, you'd want me to go to the police.
16:19When did it happen?
16:20It was that party at Central.
16:26Jonathan's leaving too.
16:28He was a senior researcher there.
16:31You'd probably heard me mention him.
16:35Oh, Jesus.
16:36Jesus.
16:40You're fine.
16:42I mean, the police, I understand what you're saying to Carrie, but surely we could have spoken about it.
16:51At first, I didn't want the rest of my life to be contaminated by what he did.
17:04As long as I didn't bring it into the house, then I could pretend it never happened.
17:10And then I took advice.
17:13From Costley?
17:16No.
17:18From a police officer that he put me in touch with.
17:24I see it all the time.
17:27Women like me, who don't want to have their lives dragged through the courts.
17:32Yeah, thank God we're not going to be dragged through the courts.
17:35Thank God you spared us from that.
17:39I'm sorry.
17:43Wow.
17:44This all comes so wrong.
17:51Oh my God, he's dead.
17:54He's actually dead.
18:04It's not your fault, none of this.
18:07It's your fault.
18:10That's not true, Gary.
18:12It isn't.
18:15You aren't even there when it happened.
18:18Were you?
18:20No.
18:22No.
18:28George, so he raped you.
18:32And it goes from there.
18:33We're going to do everything.
18:34Everything we can, okay?
18:36We're going to do everything.
18:38Everything we can, okay?
18:40We're going to do everything we can, okay?
18:42We're going to do everything we can, okay?
18:43You're going to do everything we can.
18:44I'm going to do everything we can to do everything we can, okay?
18:47That's it.
18:48It's not.
18:50I'm going to do everything.
18:53Apparently lolly sticks are good.
18:54Apparently lolly sticks are good, for scratching.
19:13Stalish.
19:14We had word from Mark Hossley's team about his plea.
19:26Looks like he's going for diminished responsibility.
19:29He's saying he's not guilty of murder.
19:32Well, good. Because he isn't. He couldn't be.
19:36Do you know that?
19:38Well, it makes no sense. Why not self-defence?
19:41Vaughn, I have to say Mark Hossley's defence is a matter for him and his solicitors.
19:45My job is to defend you.
19:47But if we're being charged together...
19:49Hossley's effectively pleading guilty to manslaughter
19:52by going for diminished responsibility as his defence.
19:55So we'll both be charged with always manslaughter?
19:58No. If they accept Hossley's plea, and that's by no means guaranteed,
20:02they still can come after you for murder.
20:05Because your defences are entirely separate.
20:07But it's not all doom and gloom.
20:10At the very least, if they accept a minister's responsibility,
20:13it makes our lives easier.
20:14You're saying you had no idea Hossley was going to kill George Selway,
20:17and Hossley is admitting that he acted on a reckless impulse of his own.
20:22You...
20:24You are my knight in shining armour.
20:34You've admitted you acted alone, keeping me safe again.
20:46You're my knight in shining armour.
20:48You've admitted you acted alone, keeping me safe again.
20:58You've sorted Khons наш hill.
21:02How manyож avatar are you made to sex?
21:04I don't know.
21:05They don't know.
21:07You're my knight and you're bylifting volte
21:09ages.
21:10While you're in shining armour
21:12you and my dear CRASZ
21:13MUSIC PLAYS
21:26Come on, come on. How are you?
21:27Good.
21:28Can you see her, love?
21:34Seth and him's going to go part-time after the baby's born.
21:38It's his baby too.
21:40Of course it is. That's great.
21:43I'm... I'm a bit jealous, actually.
21:49Well, your dad does a lot for the two of you when you were babies,
21:53but it was always basically assumed that you were my territory.
22:02I'm so sorry. All of this is such terrible timing for you.
22:07I mean, no timing would be good, but this is god-awful.
22:13I don't know.
22:14I don't know.
22:23Ajay, Asafnam's brother, he has this friend from uni trained as a barrister.
22:26We've got a barrister.
22:27Well, he does consultancy now, sort of PR, helping people to make a good impression in court.
22:33Dad asked me to get his number.
22:38The two of you have discussed it?
22:41You really think that I need help making a good impression?
22:44Shall I send it to you or Dad?
22:45The thing to remember is I'm innocent.
22:49Of course you are.
22:50Of course you are.
23:03He seems quite young.
23:05Yeah, well, he would be.
23:07Just remember, love, he's costing a fortune.
23:24Don't get all competitive with him.
23:27Vaughan?
23:28Vaughan?
23:33Competitive.
23:35Can't let him do his job, let me help you.
23:37That's what he's here for.
23:39Yeah.
23:40So, Yvonne.
23:54Are you guilty?
23:56No, Lawrence.
23:58I am not.
24:02Cool.
24:04That's what we want to see in court.
24:06Firm, but polite.
24:07No hint of doubt.
24:09First impressions are incredibly important.
24:11Aren't they just?
24:13So on that subject, is there anything Yvonne should be thinking of in court?
24:19The jury.
24:21Always.
24:23Little tip, when you're in the witness box, point your feet towards the jury, then you'll automatically address your answers towards them.
24:29It's all about making a connection.
24:32You might want to jot this down.
24:34Anything in particular she should be wearing?
24:38Well, we want the jury to see your feminine side.
24:41Oh, Jesus.
24:43Ribbons? Lace?
24:45Perhaps a blouse with a bit of embellishment.
24:49Nothing too low cut, obviously.
24:52Something that's appropriate to your age under a suit.
24:55But not to Flash or designer.
24:58We don't want people thinking you need taking down a peg or two.
25:02People only judge you 30% on what you say.
25:0570% is how you look.
25:08The women, particularly, can be very hard on other women.
25:11Talking of, I don't know if the prosecuting counsel will be a man or a woman, but if it is a woman, the jury will be more likely to think you're guilty during cross-examination about the rape.
25:20You know, this nice lady barrister wouldn't be taking this on if she really thought this man had done something terrible.
25:28I also imagine this strategy won't have escaped Mr. Costley's defense team.
25:35He may well have a female silk.
25:37You do know how violent the rape was?
25:39Yes.
25:41I've got the details.
25:44I'm sure your solicitor has been through this with you, Yvonne, but legally speaking, I'm afraid it does make your case rather worse.
25:54An attack of this severity gives you such a strong reason for killing Selway.
25:59So, basically, everything that should be in Yvonne's favor is going to go against her?
26:07Exactly.
26:12Of course, one thing the rape doesn't explain is why Mark Costley killed Selway.
26:22Why did your co-defendant act as he did?
26:25He was warning off George Selway as a favor to me.
26:29Quite a favor.
26:32You hadn't known each other that long, had you?
26:35No, a few months.
26:37Hmm.
26:40The prosecution could try to claim you were lying about the whole thing.
26:44That you and Selway had consensual sex and you were spinning costly a yarn to get him into trouble.
26:50Why the hell would have undoed that unless you was a lunatic?
26:55Who knows? You were annoyed with Selway because he didn't call you afterwards, da-da-da-da-da-da. The usual.
27:00The usual?
27:02I'm just playing devil's advocate here.
27:04Why didn't you report the rape in the first case if there was evidence? It's a big problem.
27:08And if there wasn't evidence, does that mean you didn't fight back?
27:12Why not?
27:14We see it the whole time. You ladies do make our job rather difficult.
27:17What are you thinking, Laurence?
27:21Shall I tell you what's going on in your head biologically?
27:24There's a part of your brain, the amygdala, it's telling you to do whatever you need to do to survive.
27:29It's like a siren. Survive, survive.
27:31So loud, in fact, it's drowning out your cerebral cortex, your logical brain.
27:36Your cortex knows I'm not gonna cut your throat. Why would I do that?
27:40My family's in enough trouble as it is. But the amygdala, it's pure instinct.
27:46It feels the damage this can do.
27:49There's no bigger than a peanut.
27:52You're taken by surprise.
27:55Afraid for your life.
27:57For your life.
28:00We're programmed to do whatever will ensure our survival.
28:06And sometimes...
28:09That's nothing.
28:10There's nothing.
28:31Carrie...
28:41It's gonna be okay.
28:44It's all gonna be okay.
28:48I'm sorry.
28:52I'm sorry.
28:53Sorry.
29:10I'm sorry.
29:12I'm sorry.
29:13I'm so sorry, it was the time for you.
29:43I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry.
30:13I don't want you to be there.
30:16I want you to promise that you'll stay away.
30:21But you know I want to be there for the whole thing.
30:25Please.
30:26And from what Jas has said, and that little shit tale about making the right impression,
30:32it's important.
30:33I'm seen to be standing by your side.
30:36I know.
30:37But I don't think I could bear it.
30:40If I have to talk about what George Selway did.
30:42Please.
30:51Look okay.
31:02What you have seen it is the betrayal of Gary and I had made love.
31:05Because one thing I do know
31:11You haven't betrayed me
31:35You don't have to talk about it if you don't want to
32:04Thank God, but if you do, I'm here
32:07I wish I'd talked to you
32:10I wish I'd talked to you about everything
32:13Well, like my mum says, still waters run deep
32:18She doesn't know the half of it
32:20I'll get it
32:24Yvonne?
32:27Yvonne Carmichael, I'm arresting you for breaching the conditions of your bail
32:32I'll call Jaspreet
32:33You might want to get a few things together for it
32:36What are you doing?
32:37Look, there is no need for that
32:38It's crazy
32:39I haven't done anything
32:40I haven't done anything
32:41I'll be right behind you in the car, love
32:42Suze, could you give me a hand?
32:47Mark Costley sent you a text from prison and you replied
32:50Is that right?
32:51I got a text from a number that I didn't recognise
32:54And I just asked who it was
32:57And you sent a second text
32:58It doesn't matter, the point is
33:03He made contact and you responded
33:05Which is breaching the conditions of your bail
33:07He's not even supposed to have a phone in prison, is he?
33:10Well, clearly you've got hold of one
33:11I'm sorry, Yvonne
33:12You'll be kept in Holloway on remand
33:15At least we're close to a trial, though
33:25It could be deliberate on Costley's part
33:29Tit for tat
33:30He's in prison, so why not you?
33:32He's not like that
33:33Isn't he?
33:46He has a niece that's good at science, is that right?
33:50Yeah
33:50My oldest daughter's into science
33:54It's always good to hear
33:55Yeah
33:56Yes, she showed me this thing
34:00I'm not sure she should be
34:02Watching it, to be honest with you
34:04But, uh, I suppose it's educational
34:07You've probably seen it
34:09This American who did experiments with monkeys
34:12In the 1950s on animal behaviour
34:14Rice, I think he was called
34:16It's not really my field, animal behaviour
34:18There's a mother, uh, with a baby
34:20And, uh, there's a heating element
34:24On the floor of the monkey cage
34:25Pretty horrible, actually
34:28No Wi-Fi
34:30I think it's supposed to be an experiment in altruism
34:40They keep increasing the temperature of the cage floor
34:43The worst thing is, in the end
34:45When its feet are burning
34:46I suppose it's in so much pain
34:48The monkey
34:50It just drops its baby
34:53And stands on it
34:54Jesus
34:55It still was interesting, though
35:01The tipping point
35:03And self-preservation
35:05You think Mark Horsley's reached his tipping point?
35:12That's worth bearing in mind
35:14The text Mark Horsley sent you
35:23What did it mean, anyway?
35:26The Vedicid experiment?
35:27Oh, um
35:28Well, it was just an experiment
35:30That I was involved in early on in my career
35:32I-I must have told him about it
35:36When we were talking about his niece
35:39The one who's interested in science
35:42Like your daughter
35:45You were definitely
36:00The first person
36:03To qualify
36:05The Vedicid experiment
36:07No tipping point
36:20For either of us
36:21You wanted to let me know
36:25That you're keeping the faith
36:27How can I blame you for that?
36:37How can I blame you for that?
37:07So, the order of the prosecution witnesses?
37:20Feeling okay, Yvonne?
37:22I'm relieved that we're starting, but I'm dreading it.
37:26Of course. But do bear in mind, the jury will be able to see you throughout.
37:30Just try to stay composed if you can.
37:32What are special measures?
37:38Yes, that's the witness that needs to retain anonymity.
37:41The MI5 man, yes?
37:42Yeah.
37:44Exciting times.
38:02The MI5 man, yes.
38:03I was顔 hablando, I was under the memo.
38:10If I try to stay, I'm not alone.
38:16If I try to stay, it's good.
38:21It's done.
38:23There's no way to stay.
38:25I've got a lot of data.
38:25I feel good.
38:26I feel good.
38:27I feel good.
38:27I'm not alone.
38:28I feel good.
38:28I feel good.
38:30I feel good.
38:31Oh, my God.
39:01All persons having anything to do at the Central Criminal Court
39:29draw near and give your attendance.
39:32Oh, my God.
40:02You fucking bitch!
40:14You deserve everything you get!
40:17You bitch!
40:18You evil bitch!
40:20Look at what you're doing to all of us!
40:21I have two children at home who have broken their hearts
40:26because their father is there that you have brought into your mess!
40:32My Lord, ladies and gentlemen,
40:46you will hear two defences being offered in this court.
40:50You will hear medical evidence concerning the claim of the first defendant, Mark Liam Costley,
40:56that he shall be found not guilty of murder on grounds of diminished responsibility,
41:02that he is not responsible for the killing of George Selway
41:05because he has a personality disorder.
41:08His defence will argue that he is mentally unstable.
41:11You will also hear evidence from the second defendant, Yvonne Carmichael,
41:16that she is entirely innocent,
41:19that she knew nothing of Mr. Costley's intentions
41:22when she drove him to the doorstep of a man who had viciously assaulted her.
41:27When questioned by the police,
41:30this eminent scientist claimed that she had no idea what might be going on
41:36when she sat waiting in her car outside that property.
41:41Waiting.
41:43And waiting.
41:45And waiting.
41:48The police were told that she had no thought whatsoever
41:51something might be amiss
41:52when Mr. Costley took so long to return,
41:55having changed some of his clothing,
41:58but having neglected to change his shoes.
42:01The shoes that transferred blood to the mat
42:04in the footwell of her car.
42:08The prosecution's case,
42:10he says, this is all nonsense.
42:13Mark Liam Costley and Yvonne Carmichael
42:15planned and connived quite coldly and in advance
42:18that one would do the deed
42:20and the other would drive the getaway car.
42:22Each encouraged and facilitated the other's behaviour.
42:26And each, therefore, is as guilty as the other
42:29of the murder of George Simon Selway.
42:38It might be an idea to get something down,
42:40if you can, Dr. Carmichael.
42:42After lunch, we're in for the long haul.
42:44Ladies and gentlemen, may I invite you
42:46to turn to the first page of the jury...
42:48Maps, photographs, forensic diagrams.
42:53There's nothing to worry about.
42:54Smoke and mirrors.
42:58Prosecution just won a hammer at home,
43:00essentially guilty, guilty, guilty.
43:02The woman you saw sitting in the car
43:03outside George Selway's flat,
43:05can you point her out to the court, please?
43:07I'm afraid Miss Bonnard, Mr. Costley's barrister,
43:13might pile on the agony a bit as well.
43:15Brand new silk.
43:16They always want to cross-examine every single witness.
43:19Isn't that what you'll be doing?
43:21No.
43:22I have no questions for the witness, my lord.
43:27No cross-exam from us.
43:29An innocent woman doesn't need to get bogged down
43:31in the sordid details.
43:32That's our message.
43:38Can you clarify, Dr. Weatherfield,
43:40what kind of force would have been needed
43:42to cause this level of injury
43:44to the victim's neck area?
43:46It would have to be a blunt trauma injury
43:48of some force, consistent with stamping,
43:51while the victim was face up on the floor.
43:53And how can you tell that this force
43:55would have been considerable?
43:57The bruising.
43:58You can see the clear imprint
44:00of the attacker's trainer
44:01on the torso
44:02and the victim's voice box was shattered.
44:06In order to sustain that level of injury,
44:09I would say that the person applying the force
44:11would perhaps have been jumping
44:13while he or she stamped on him.
44:17What was the extent of the injury to the nose?
44:19The nose was almost certainly broken
44:21by a blow before the victim was on the ground,
44:24perhaps as a way of initiating the attack.
44:27There was considerable blood from the nose
44:29on the victim's clothes.
44:31Once he was on his back,
44:34that wouldn't have flowed vertically down his clothes.
44:39No further questions, my lord.
44:41My lord, I have no questions for this witness.
44:43How did it go so far?
44:56Did he provoke you?
44:59Is this what you've been trained to do?
45:01It looks different to how I imagined.
45:13Do you know this, um, experiment?
45:29Rice.
45:30Um, animal behaviour.
45:32It's 1950s, I think.
45:34Rice?
45:35Yeah.
45:36Um,
45:36Is that the one with the monkeys?
45:40Hmm.
45:41What's that got to do with anything?
45:43It's just been in my head,
45:45and I don't really get to talk to anybody in here.
45:48I'm not in court for that matter either.
45:51Have you seen the footage?
45:53Yeah, I'm...
45:53I'm not sure.
45:56Maybe years ago.
45:58It's the one with the heated cage, right?
45:59Mm.
46:01Um, yeah, but it's extraordinary.
46:03Really?
46:04That's not the word I'd use.
46:05Well, I mean, the experiment's horrific.
46:07They wouldn't get away with it these days,
46:09but the outcome is...
46:10is pretty amazing.
46:12The power of maternal love.
46:14You're kidding her.
46:14I thought the whole point was that the monkey drops the baby.
46:16No, she saves the baby.
46:19I remember reading about it.
46:20She holds the baby in the air
46:22and lets her feet burn.
46:26If it's the same experiment.
46:33I wish I could make you feel safe.
46:50I do.
46:52I feel safe here.
46:54With you.
46:55I know you.
47:03You're not a monster.
47:08And once everyone else knows what you are,
47:11they'll understand.
47:14Members of the jury,
47:16this witness is to give evidence behind a screen.
47:18You'll be able to see the witness,
47:20however, the defendants and the gallery will not.
47:24Thank you for your patience
47:24while we make the necessary adjustments.
47:29Witness A,
47:30can you please tell us what your job is?
47:33My title is Chief Training Operative MI5.
47:36And can you explain for us
47:37what a Chief Training Operative is or does?
47:40There are various roles,
47:41but my particular responsibility
47:42is to oversee the testing we put operatives through,
47:44both physical and psychological,
47:47as part of the selection process for MI5.
47:50And how do you go about finding out
47:52whether or not a given person
47:53is suitable for a career in MI5?
47:55I understand that the precise methods
47:57are confidential,
47:59but if you could please
48:00give the court a general idea.
48:02Well, we begin with, um,
48:04psychological questionnaires,
48:05interviews and so on.
48:06Physical tests?
48:07Well, yes, of course.
48:09Then candidates who make the first cut
48:11move to a more extended period of training.
48:14Witness A,
48:15do you know the defendant, Mark Costley?
48:18Yes, I met Mr. Costley in the autumn of 2008
48:20when he applied to join the security services.
48:22He made the first cut, as you would say.
48:25Yes.
48:26I was responsible for assessing his application,
48:28not exclusively,
48:29but I was the supervising officer.
48:31Could you tell us a little more
48:32about the training Mr. Costley underwent,
48:34so far as you're permitted to say?
48:36Well, candidates attend seminars, lectures,
48:39and they also undergo a period of
48:40more what you might call interactive training.
48:42Does this include combat training?
48:45There's a basic level of combat training.
48:47No, of course, Mr. Costley
48:48had spent some years in the police force,
48:49so he was already familiar
48:50with some of the principles.
48:52Indeed.
48:53Would this level of training
48:54give an individual an advantage
48:57over what you might call
48:58an average citizen in a fight?
49:01Well, that's rather what it's designed to do, yes.
49:03To be clear,
49:05does combat training,
49:06as opposed to what Mr. Costley
49:08would have been taught
49:09as part of this police officer safety training,
49:12include a technique
49:13for breaking an assailant's nose
49:15with the palm of one's hand?
49:17That's one of the techniques disseminated, yes.
49:20And in assessing Mark Costley,
49:22did you find him suitable
49:23to the physical requirements
49:24of an MI5 officer?
49:26Yes, we did.
49:28During the time you were assessing Mr. Costley,
49:30did you ever feel sufficient concern
49:32about his mental stability
49:34to raise the issue
49:36with his line manager
49:37in the Metropolitan Police Force?
49:39His mental stability?
49:41I'm sorry, I don't...
49:43quite see where you're heading with this.
49:45I mean, it really wasn't my road...
49:46I'm asking if you were happy enough
49:48with Mark Costley's mental state
49:50to allow him to continue working
49:52as a police officer
49:53and then to move on
49:54into a sensitive position
49:56involving the security
49:57and the safety
49:58of our members of Parliament
50:00despite your final decision
50:02to reject his application
50:03to join MI5.
50:14Yes, it was purely for me
50:16to turn him down
50:17as an unsuitable candidate
50:19for the security services.
50:20I wasn't fucking a spook.
50:32The spooks didn't want you.
50:39All the ways you made yourself mysterious.
50:42Facing the wrong way.
50:44Risk assessment.
50:45The phones.
50:47The safe house.
50:53Why?
50:55I believed you.
50:58Everything about you.
51:00Who are you?
51:02Really?
51:07What have I done?
51:08Well, yeah.
51:19What have I done?
51:20How can I do?
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