- 5 months ago
Alex Barth is joined with Marc Bertrand to recap the 11th day of training camp, providing their takeaways from everything throughout camp ahead of the Patriots' first joint practice.
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00:00Welcome in to the Patriots training camp practice report brought to you by Safety Insurance.
00:04Alex Barth back up here today after practice with Mark Bertrand.
00:07No Zoe today, but we got Beatle here after the Patriots had a walk-through practice.
00:12You enjoy that walk-through, Beatle?
00:13It's a lot more formal today than it was yesterday, Barth.
00:16Oh, yeah.
00:18Shit.
00:19The practice or me?
00:21Not you.
00:22Oh, fuck.
00:22Sorry.
00:23Yeah, that's just how I've been opening it.
00:28No, you guys were good yesterday.
00:29I love the fucking internet.
00:31This is the best.
00:32This needs to be how we do it all day, every day, Barth.
00:35We might need to figure out a way to make this like an in-season thing.
00:38We might because the reviews have been very positive.
00:42So that's the thing.
00:43When I do it, I start like that because that's actually how I start, and then it kind of devolves like this.
00:47And we want to, again, reference our great friends at Safety Insurance.
00:50That's the thing because I want to make sure I get that.
00:51Yes.
00:52And then we can have all the fun we want.
00:54Not a ton of fun stuff today, just kind of procedural, getting ready for the joint practice tomorrow,
00:59which we'll get to.
00:59But a couple notable things today.
01:00First off, I got to take a minor victory lap here because I said after the first week, I said,
01:05hey, just keep it in the back of your mind.
01:08I don't know that it means anything.
01:10Lowercase G, good start to camp for Javon Baker.
01:13People jumped all over me.
01:14What are you buying in on Javon Baker again?
01:17He was repping with the ones today.
01:18Kendrick Bourne's out.
01:19There's another spot in that rotation.
01:21It didn't go to Jalen Polk, who was drafted to Ironham.
01:23It didn't go to Afton Chisholm.
01:25It went to Javon Baker.
01:26Does that ultimately get him on the team?
01:27I don't know, but clearly they saw something.
01:30Well, I agree with you that it was lowercase G for him, the start.
01:34And I would even give him an uppercase G good to this point for him, right?
01:39For him, like compared to expectations.
01:41Sure.
01:41He was going against the threes, but what do you want him to do?
01:43He has exceeded any expectations I had for him as a player in this camp so far to this point.
01:49And he's had, he's probably had three, maybe four pretty good days over the course of how many practices is it now?
01:59This is 11.
02:0011?
02:00Eight, not including the walkthroughs.
02:02Okay.
02:03So half the time you can look and say, oh yeah, he had a decent day.
02:07He had a couple of plays.
02:09And today was another one of those days.
02:11And I think it's notable probably more so that it's him and not Polk making any sort of headway in terms of proving that he belongs on the roster.
02:22No, I think that's exactly it.
02:24And I think that's the story that of those two players from a year ago that were drafted in that draft that there were high expectations for coming out of last year's draft.
02:32Well, Baker's at least made it look like he put in enough work in the spring to get himself ready for this camp.
02:39Now you're hitting it right on the head.
02:41I don't know that it means anything.
02:44In fact, if you were asking me to predict what it means for him, it doesn't ultimately mean much.
02:49And his roster situation is probably the same as it was coming into this camp, which is unless they are in need of bodies, he's not on the team.
02:59If Kendrick Bourne is back and healthy in a few days, in a week's time, whatever that might be, Kendrick Bourne makes the team.
03:06Baker doesn't.
03:08And I just think that's a predetermined thing from McDaniels and Vrabel already going into this.
03:13But in terms of doing everything you can do and showing up to work every day, he has certainly done that.
03:19I mean, he's had some catches that you see.
03:21And you're like, well, there's the reason why they drafted him.
03:24Because there's some ability there.
03:26I don't know that he's able to follow it up with the ability to stay within the offense and know exactly what to be doing on every play and all of that.
03:35But I do know that credit where credit is due, he's had a good camp.
03:38So the mental mistakes have been less.
03:40There haven't been zero, but they've been less.
03:42You mentioned the catches.
03:43If he does make the team, that's what it's going to be.
03:45They don't really have another jump ball receiver.
03:48So if they want that element or who and look, this ultimately isn't necessarily the best case scenario for a guy you took in the fourth round last year.
03:57If he balls out in the preseason against twos and threes like he has been in this camp, do you get something for him?
04:02Can you trade him at cut down day, a late day three pick instead of cutting him?
04:06Again, it's not ultimately what you want for a guy you took there.
04:08That might be what they have to do with the second round pick.
04:12So, you know what I'm saying?
04:14Like, at least that's something.
04:15And you absolutely, I think it's natural to compare and contrast the two.
04:20And when Polk was missing that time early and Baker was out there, if I had asked you at the beginning of camp, and we thought from the beginning, both these guys were on the outside looking in.
04:29But like, which one, if one is going to make a push for the roster, who do you think has a better chance?
04:34I think we all would have said Jalen Polk.
04:36Yes.
04:37And here's Javon Baker doing what I think some people thought Polk would do, which is kind of just resetting himself and collecting himself.
04:44At least make a case.
04:45Putting up a fight.
04:46Polk has made no case for himself whatsoever.
04:48And I still believe, if you're asking me today, do either one of them make it?
04:53I say no.
04:54No.
04:54If I had to bet on it today, I'm betting no.
04:57But at least Baker's building something.
05:00He's showing up and doing the job.
05:02I feel comfortable with, usually after the second preseason game, and obviously we have a little bit to go until we get there.
05:07After I write my, like, who's on the bubble thing, I'd put Baker on the bubble.
05:11I'd include him in that.
05:12I still might have him off, but I'd include him in that.
05:14I didn't think I'd be doing that at the start of the summer.
05:16The other kind of newsy update today, Morgan Moses didn't participate after leaving practice yesterday.
05:22They rotated the right tackles.
05:24It had been mostly Demontre Jacobs stepping in for him when he was out earlier in camp.
05:28Now we're seeing some of Marcus Bryant, the rookie as well.
05:31I said this on Felger and Maz yesterday.
05:33I'm more worried about right tackle than left tackle.
05:35And what I'm really worried about is the depth.
05:37Because this thing's a house of cards across the line.
05:39You lose one, two guys, and it can get ugly pretty quickly.
05:42Yeah, I think you're right to feel like Morgan Moses' availability is a major question for this team.
05:49And that's just given his age and the stage he's at in his career at a position at either tackle spot that's prone to guys getting hurt.
05:58It's just his life in the NFL playing tackle in this league.
06:00So I think you're right to feel like that could be a big question mark because the depth is non-existent really at tackle.
06:10Who's their backup left tackle?
06:11I don't know.
06:12That's the correct answer.
06:13Like, there isn't one.
06:15We talked a little bit about it today, and I said to Phil, I said, let's assume Will Campbell's healthy and he plays.
06:21Yeah.
06:22And he's out there every week.
06:23But they're going to have to account for the fact that, well, he's a rookie and he's not perfect.
06:28Like, best case scenario, rookie and not perfect, but proves he can play the position.
06:33Looks like he belongs.
06:33But they're going to give him help at times.
06:35Yeah.
06:36Where can they afford to give all the help from?
06:39Because now, this is assuming Bradbury's your center.
06:42Assuming everybody's healthy, yeah.
06:43Okay, Bradbury's healthy, he's your center.
06:45And Phil said, yeah, they were lucky to get him in the offseason.
06:49I said, one of your guards is a guy who's supposed to be a rock in Michael Wenham.
06:54Yeah.
06:55Fine.
06:55Check that box.
06:56We knew what that would be coming into the end of the year.
06:59Did we know that Wilson was going to be their starting left guard as it appears right now?
07:04I thought there was a chance he'd be the starting center.
07:06So did I.
07:07And I actually think that they might be better with him at center and Cole Strange playing at guard.
07:12I don't know.
07:13I wonder where they're at with Cole Strange.
07:15Yeah, I don't think he's looking like a guy who's definitely on this roster now.
07:20Ben Brown playing guard is not good for Cole Strange.
07:23So between, and I'm just talking, coming into this case.
07:26Yeah, yeah, yeah.
07:26If you had told me, hey, they're going to find a way that Cole Strange is playing guard again,
07:29I'd say, well, he's shown the ability to play guard at times.
07:33So anyway, they go into this.
07:35Wilson might be your best center, and he might end up playing left guard.
07:38Yeah.
07:39He's also a rookie now next to the rookie left tackle.
07:41Is there not a domino effect in here in terms of how they make this all work over the course of the season?
07:47Not to mention, as then we got to the point, Morgan Moses being the age he's at and now out today after getting banged up yesterday.
07:56Well, me and so that's a line still a problem for this team.
07:58Me and so talked about this when they started moving Wilson to guard.
08:01He's good, man.
08:03He is good.
08:04But what risk would you rather take, the two rookies next to each other on the left side or a rookie center in this complex offense?
08:13Either way, people are going to point to it and be like, that's a risk.
08:15That makes me nervous.
08:17I don't hate the veteran center.
08:20I like Wilson better as the center.
08:21If he's going to play center here long term, I want him to develop there.
08:24They did way too much cross training last year, and it's kind of turned me off on the whole idea entirely.
08:29Let guys develop at their positions.
08:31But I do think young quarterback, you're going to have two rookies on the line either way.
08:36I don't hate the idea of having a veteran center in there to kind of air traffic control things.
08:41Unless he can't block.
08:42Unless he can't.
08:43Well, if he can't block, he can't block.
08:44Because at that point, what is it worth?
08:47That's true.
08:47If he's getting beat in pass protection, well, then what's the point of this?
08:51Because he's a veteran and can, what, set the protections for his line?
08:54Like, forget it.
08:55If he can't block, it's not worth it.
08:57It'd be worth dealing and suffering through the mistakes of a rookie at the position.
09:03I mean, David Andrews made it work as a rookie, didn't he?
09:05He did.
09:06Well, not our player's David Andrews.
09:07If Jared Wilson's David Andrews, it's a home run.
09:09What do you make of the workload in this camp?
09:11Because it's now becoming a storyline for Mike Rabel in this camp.
09:13They seem to be prioritizing rest days for certain players.
09:18I don't hate it for some guys.
09:20Like, Carlton Davis, see a weak one.
09:23It's not an overly complex defense for him.
09:25They're going to play a lot of man coverage.
09:27It's study the receiver every week and go man up on him.
09:30It's a guy that has an injury history.
09:31I don't hate him being fresh.
09:33For some other guys, for some of the receivers that have done a little less,
09:36we just talked about Morgan Moses, and you've got to build the continuity on the line.
09:40You know, today being a walk-through day, like, I'd like to see them out there in that side.
09:45Are you just talking about the number of injuries?
09:47Oh, no, I'm talking about the walk-through days, the whatever that was today,
09:52which was the slowest practice I feel like we've seen to date here.
09:57So, oddly enough, today was the day it felt right.
10:00Because I've seen them in the past, the day before the joint practice,
10:02you treat it like a walk-through for a game.
10:04Like, we're going to get ready so we can go full-go tomorrow.
10:06Doing them just randomly in the middle of camp was new to me.
10:10So, today was the one day I was like, okay, I walk-through.
10:12I get that.
10:13The one where, I mean, they had the really focused third-down install day.
10:17That was new.
10:18I hadn't seen that.
10:19And we'll see.
10:20Look, it's the last year was we're going to stretch.
10:23We're going to have one period of individuals because we have to let the media shoot something.
10:28And then we're into 11-on-11s, and boom, we're full speed for two hours, and we're done.
10:32That's all they did.
10:33It was a very exciting camp to watch.
10:35I don't think it worked.
10:36This is a pretty stark opposite to that.
10:39There's a lot more purpose to what they're doing.
10:42There's a lot more focus on the details, the finite things, and that means more individual periods, more slower periods, seven-on-sevens, walk-throughs.
10:48So, will it ultimately work?
10:50I don't know.
10:51It is just very apparent to me that I think this is the polar opposite to how Mayo ran camp last year in that sense.
10:57Yeah, it is.
10:58And so, we'll see if it pays dividends when we get to September.
11:01Do they look just as ready to go?
11:03Do they look less ready to go?
11:05Oh, all of that is a question.
11:06One matchup you're looking forward to tomorrow.
11:08I know what mine is.
11:09It's Will Campbell and Dietrich Wise.
11:11Well, Dietrich Wise is very long arms.
11:13We looked up his arms today.
11:14Did you?
11:15Yeah.
11:16Phil, right off the top of his head, goes, I think he's got 35-inch arms.
11:19It's got to be a lead's bat.
11:2035 and 5-8ths and 11-inch hands.
11:23He is one of the biggest people.
11:24That's a condor.
11:25I've ever met.
11:26Big wingspan.
11:27I'm going to go kind of off the board on this one.
11:29Of course you are.
11:31Elliot Wolfe, Adam Peters.
11:32I am fascinated by the fact.
11:35I'm sorry.
11:35I can't.
11:36But I'm fascinated by the fact that with all the stuff going on with Debo.
11:40With all the stuff.
11:40Not Debo.
11:41With all the stuff going on with Terry McLaurin.
11:43And this holdout just seems a little different.
11:45Because there's no leverage for Washington.
11:47None.
11:47None.
11:48And they still aren't paying.
11:49Young quarterback.
11:50Your wide receiver room fucking blows.
11:52Oh, Barthi off the top rope.
11:54This guy, he's like 37.
11:56F-bomb Barthi.
11:57He's 30.
11:58And then you have a Patriots team that is sort of in the exact same situation that is desperate
12:02for a guy like that that has been playing the wide receiver market.
12:05And just as he holds out.
12:06Yeah.
12:07That team happens to be coming here.
12:09I'm sorry.
12:10I am fascinated by that.
12:12I am.
12:12If we see the two of them talking on the sideline, I'm going to be binoculars out trying to
12:16read lips like that is I don't know, Barthi.
12:19That's actual actual football matchup for me that I'm watching would probably be I want
12:27to see Kyle Williams get going.
12:28And I don't know if maybe the corners here just kind of used to the nuances of his game
12:31at this point.
12:32He had that good start and there hasn't been much since good opportunity for him to really
12:36get going.
12:37I was going to say that's a hammer and a nail, but I'd probably have to switch it up and
12:40say that's a sledgehammer and a nail Peters and Wolf standing side by side.
12:46Come on.
12:46Listen, or who if that deal gets done, Washington first has to open themselves up to it.
12:52Yeah.
12:53And have legitimate conversations.
12:54And I don't know we're there yet.
12:56It's still only the first week of August.
12:58Right.
12:58Well, it's not.
12:59They're not there yet.
13:00Calling each other back and forth.
13:01You're both right there.
13:02And I would say, number two, it's going to require the Patriots to get stupid.
13:06It's going to require them to give up more than what people will consider a good deal
13:10or a fair deal.
13:11It's going to require them to get stupid and overpay and tell them they're going to
13:14pay him like DK Metcalf got paid, which is an overpay for him.
13:18He's not DK Metcalf.
13:19You got to overpay for receivers in this league.
13:21That's what you got to do.
13:22No kidding.
13:22But the thing I would tell the Patriots to do is to use some motivation from last year
13:29not getting a return phone call when they tried to pull off a deal like this to being
13:34basically told by Chris Godwin that their money was useless and he had no interest in
13:40them, that they could have offered him, I don't know how many more tens of millions
13:44of dollars.
13:45It didn't matter.
13:46He wouldn't even consider it.
13:48So if you want to build back and you want to get aggressive and you want to be good and
13:52you want to maximize not paying your quarterback right now and not paying your best player
13:57in Christian Gonzalez, well, then I would get on the phone, get stupid, offer up more draft
14:02capital than you want to and offer up more money to the player than you'd like to and
14:06actually do the damn thing with your 60 million in space.
14:09Yeah, second, fourth and Kay Sean booty for McLaurin.
14:12You give him 110 over three years.
14:13You don't think that's enough?
14:14Not enough.
14:15There are deals with guys who have been in contract situations that went beyond the
14:20second and got into first round pick territory.
14:22Who's the last receiver to go for first?
14:24It's funny.
14:24I think it's Tyree Kell.
14:26He's not.
14:26I think he is the last, but I rattled off a bunch of names today that went for first
14:30going back to I mentioned Keyshawn Johnson.
14:31Do you remember when Keyshawn got traded?
14:33Yeah, that's way back.
14:34It's 25 years ago.
14:35It's not like it's 1960.
14:37No, but like the reason his two firsts for him.
14:39He was in a dispute.
14:40Not a top five guy.
14:42OBJ got a first when he went to Cleveland.
14:44So that might be.
14:45No, that was before Hill.
14:46Marquise Brown went from the Ravens to the Cardinals and got a first.
14:50There was something else in that deal, wasn't there?
14:52Yeah, like swap of late round.
14:54I thought there was something else.
14:55No, no, the prime first rounders moved in those.
14:58So I look at the last couple.
14:59First rounders do move in these deals.
15:00Well, Diggs, when he went to Buffalo, was worth the first.
15:02Diggs wasn't the best receiver in the sport.
15:05He was one of the better guys in the sport.
15:07He was a top 10 guy, which is where McLaurin is now.
15:10So Diggs, when he went to Houston, was a second.
15:12Metcalf was a second.
15:13Yeah, that was later on.
15:13When he went to Buffalo, he got a first.
15:15I think, but Diggs was like 25.
15:17Then he's 30 now.
15:19McLaurin's 30 now.
15:20Age is not on McLaurin's side.
15:21Listen, if this is how you want to negotiate it, Bart, you're going to end up the same way you did the last two times.
15:28So if you want to get off your ass and you want to get a deal done as one of the dogshit teams in the league over the last two years, right, four wins back-to-back years, and the players in the league won't even pick up your calls, well, guess what you do?
15:41You've got to do something.
15:42You've got to get uncomfortable.
15:44You've got to get stupid.
15:45Didn't I describe it right off the top as getting stupid?
15:49You did.
15:49You did.
15:49If you want to win the deal, then go ahead and win the deal.
15:52That's what the Red Sox like to do.
15:54They want to be efficient and win the deals.
15:56If you want to win some fucking football games, then go make a deal.
16:01Get off your ass.
16:02That's my rant.
16:04Get stupid.
16:05And you're not going to like what you give up.
16:07But you have been unable to get any of these deals done because nobody wants to play here.
16:13These receivers don't want to go to New England.
16:16Give a guy a reason and give a team a reason to send their guy to New England.
16:19That's it.
16:21And you're going to hate the deal, Bart.
16:22And we're all going to be able to say, yeah, it was an overpay.
16:25What the hell was plan B?
16:27You know what?
16:28If they get him, I'll be happy.
16:29I'll say that.
16:29You'll be thrilled.
16:30And you won't give a shit about the pick.
16:32Fair.
16:32You'll say they have Terry McLaurin now, and they just paired him with their young quarterback,
16:36and that's awesome.
16:37Let's go win some football games.
16:39Let's compete for the division again.
16:41Let's start there.
16:42Or we could talk about their cap spending and building through the draft for the next three
16:47to five years with Mike Rabel.
16:48I don't know if you want to do that, but I've seen enough bad football games over the last
16:52several years to say, I don't give a damn about their first rounders anymore.
16:57I don't.
16:57In fact, they just used the fourth overall pick on a guy we're not sure can be a great
17:03player.
17:03He might be a starter.
17:05I don't know if he's a great player.
17:06You think he's a great player?
17:08I don't know.
17:09You don't even know yet.
17:11You don't even know.
17:12I said I was going to try to keep it in eight minutes because he had to get out of here.
17:15We went like 10 over that.
17:15Take that.
17:16Good stuff, Beatle.
17:18Get the clicks on that shit, Bart.
17:20That's it for the training camp practice.
17:22Poor problem.
17:22My safety insurance.
17:23It's for you.
17:24Zoe and who tomorrow?
17:26Beatle and Zoe tomorrow.
17:27Oh, my hosting?
17:28To wrap it up.
17:30Chef Zoho, see what happens.
17:32Thank you again, Safety Insurance.
17:33Thanks, everybody, for tuning in.
17:34Well, I have more on 98.5thesportshub.com.
17:37We'll talk to you next time.
17:38Bye.