We interview Shadh Hammouri, doctor and lecturer at Kent Law School, UK, to analyze the First Summit of The Hague Group’s importance and relevance. teleSUR
00:01And we go to Bogota, Colombia, where an emergency ministerial meeting on Palestine of the Hague Group is underway.
00:07And to go deep into the relevance of this event, we are joined now by Dr. Shad Hamouri, lecturer at Kent Law School in the University of Kent.
00:15Welcome, Shad, to From the South. Thank you for joining us.
00:18Thank you for having me.
00:20Shad, what's the importance of this event taking into account in the current international context?
00:25So this event comes in a moment of despair where an ongoing genocide for two years has shaken the very core of the international legal system.
00:40Nothing that the people, the majority of the people that have been protesting have been able to do.
00:46And we've reached a diplomatic deadlock that is almost maintained consistently by the U.S. imperial power protecting Israel.
00:57But at the same time, this comes at a moment when we see a change in the system, where we see cracks happening in the hegemonic system where we live,
01:05whereby U.S. empire is falling into extremity.
01:10It is showing the teeth behind the veneer of liberalism that it has upheld for very long.
01:17We're seeing the violence that is so embedded into the system now rise up to the surface on so many multiple levels.
01:24Palestine is indeed a case of extremity that sheds power relations bare and shows us the world that we live in,
01:33the normalized exploitation and the normalized domination.
01:36The fact that powerful states can get to have their call on whatever they want to do,
01:42including upholding a genocide for over two years that included the most atrocious and horrible things that people could imagine.
01:52So this meeting comes at a moment where there is a breadth of multilateral work between states
02:00that seeks to build an alliance so as to take measures to take international law forward
02:07and do something to stop the ongoing genocide.
02:12And perhaps it plants the seeds for a new imagination of what the world could be going forward.
02:19International law, as we know it, is no longer there.
02:24It has indeed become very clear what colonized people knew for very long.
02:28International law only applies when it appeals to power.
02:32But now it is very clear that it can no longer uphold its legitimacy.
02:37It has no grounds to say that it serves any semblance of justice.
02:44So we come here today to ask states whether or not they will take the longer vision of understanding
02:52that since the world system is changing, will you stand up for Palestine now to do something to end the genocide,
03:01stand in a united front to help end this genocide and also start a new movement
03:06that seeks to also respond to the voice of the majority of the world?
03:11In this scenario, what roles are social movements precisely playing in this international meeting?
03:19Why their presence matters?
03:22Well, the thing is, the voices of social movement is just in the background.
03:26And sadly enough, the structure of state discussion and diplomatic and bureaucratic discussion
03:31really limits where we can take this, which opens up a lot of questions about representation.
03:36Even the Palestinian people themselves are not represented here.
03:40The Palestinian Authority does not represent the Palestinian people.
03:43And the Palestinian civil society has tried to make its way into this meeting
03:48and establish a representation for itself.
03:51And it is facing a lot of problems because of protocol, because of diplomacy,
03:56because of the borders that have been placed.
03:59And the fact that the world still doesn't understand that the Palestinian people are not represented.
04:03And also the majority of the world is not really represented
04:06in the fact that very few governments are responding to their people.
04:10What we are seeing now is that they push for a good deal of measures that aren't new.
04:15It's not that these states are coming in with anything new or even revolutionary
04:20in terms of a reading of international law.
04:23So in terms of international law, really what's happening here is very much the bare minimum.
04:27But in terms of geopolitics, what is happening here is a semblance of rebellion.
04:34And some governments here are the reason why they are here.
04:38They do have some some of them have some left leaning that has been pushed for by social movements.
04:46Others are coming here to respond to their people.
04:48But then we are really afraid that what a lot of governments might do is to come here,
04:54say a few nice words and leave, but not really respond to people.
04:58So sadly enough, even though the voice of the people has led us here
05:02and also created this need for states to respond,
05:06it is very questionable of how far and how genuine will this voice be transferred
05:11into this ministerial conference.
05:13Specifically, this is felt among the Palestinians themselves,
05:17who are really trying to have their voice heard.
05:21But whenever they put their voice forward, what they're met with is diplomatic words,
05:27pressure, and indeed the specter of American and Israeli imperial force
05:33stands here as a deterrence for any collective action.
05:39And sadly enough, what states do not understand is that their duty towards the majority of the world,
05:46not just Palestine, starts with holding a united front against the big bully of the U.S.
05:52And if they manage to do something today and tomorrow with resolutions,
05:56then they are able to put cracks in a system where the U.S. can call things the way they want
06:05or basically bully the whole world into doing whatever they deem is the status quo.
06:11So we are hoping also in this moment that social movements all across the world
06:17keep on pressing their states into fruitful engagement.
06:21And really, there is currently very clear leadership by very strong Palestinian voices
06:26who for decades have been buried.
06:29And not only, of course, by the whole world, but also by the fragmentation of the Palestinian society itself
06:34through colonization.
06:36But it's clear what is needed to take forward the Palestinian cause.
06:40And when taking the Palestinian cause forward, we are able to also call for wider social movements.
06:47By following this lead where people are asking their states to engage seriously with the process here,
06:54to build these coalitions and also to engage seriously with the U.N. General Assembly,
06:59there is a semblance of perhaps movement going forward.
07:04And it's a new way of trying to imagine, really, the goals of social movements.
07:10But I think it's quite necessary at the moment that we also keep an eye on the priorities
07:16and lobbying our states and our parliamentary members towards pushing as much as possible.
07:22And actually, today wouldn't have been possible had it not been for the very strong work
07:27of different social movements across in ensuring that their states are represented.
07:33But if I may go into a small caveat, a little bit of it might be a little bit destructive
07:39because what happened is we got European states on board,
07:43but now the European states are not genuinely engaging.
07:47So they're not representing the voices of the people who lobbied for them to be here,
07:50but also almost working as a deterrence towards more hopeful, more ideal agendas.
07:57So it's quite a complex positionality for social movements.
08:01But indeed, there is a growing voice.
08:03There is a growing coalition among the majority.
08:05And perhaps if we don't come out of this victorious in the sense of concrete measures
08:10out of the ministerial conference, perhaps something good that we might come out of
08:15is actually a very strong coalition and also a very strong front and a united front
08:22that allows us to also further imagine how political work will go on a global solidarity
08:28movement of global south and workers, the global majority going forward.
08:33Chad, there is a growing voice and also a strong front indeed, a forum thanks to this meeting.
08:41And thank you very much for helping us get through the main highlights of this event.
