- 5 months ago
Today on Power House, we are bringing you a fantastic conversation between HousingWire’s Senior Director of the Content Studio, Zeb Lowe, and Jennifer Beeston, the EVP of National Sales at Rate and a veteran loan originator. Jennifer took the stage last month at The Gathering to talk about reviving the American Dream, and we caught her right after to dive a bit deeper into her work in the VA space.
Jennifer and Zeb talk about the moment that led her to specialize in VA lending and the why behind her mission to educate people about the product’s true value. They also talk about the misconceptions around VA loans, why social media alone won’t build a lasting business, and how AI is reshaping the mortgage space, including where it falls short.
Here’s what you’ll learn:
Why VA loans are still misunderstood and how Jennifer is changing that
Why originators should focus on clients, not just real estate agents
How Jennifer built a personal brand through social media
Social media is a fantastic tool, but not a strategy in and of itself
AI can streamline tasks, but it can’t replace trust and human connection
Related to this episode:
Rate's Jennifer Beeston urges LOs to 'protect the American dream' | HousingWire
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/jennifer-beeston-rate-mortgage-loan-officers-homeownership-gen-z/
Jennifer Beeston | LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferbeeston/
The Power House podcast brings the biggest names in housing to answer hard-hitting questions about industry trends, operational and growth strategy, and leadership. Join HousingWire president Diego Sanchez every Thursday morning for candid conversations with industry leaders to learn how they’re differentiating themselves from the competition. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
Jennifer and Zeb talk about the moment that led her to specialize in VA lending and the why behind her mission to educate people about the product’s true value. They also talk about the misconceptions around VA loans, why social media alone won’t build a lasting business, and how AI is reshaping the mortgage space, including where it falls short.
Here’s what you’ll learn:
Why VA loans are still misunderstood and how Jennifer is changing that
Why originators should focus on clients, not just real estate agents
How Jennifer built a personal brand through social media
Social media is a fantastic tool, but not a strategy in and of itself
AI can streamline tasks, but it can’t replace trust and human connection
Related to this episode:
Rate's Jennifer Beeston urges LOs to 'protect the American dream' | HousingWire
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/jennifer-beeston-rate-mortgage-loan-officers-homeownership-gen-z/
Jennifer Beeston | LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferbeeston/
The Power House podcast brings the biggest names in housing to answer hard-hitting questions about industry trends, operational and growth strategy, and leadership. Join HousingWire president Diego Sanchez every Thursday morning for candid conversations with industry leaders to learn how they’re differentiating themselves from the competition. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
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NewsTranscript
00:00The military community has embraced me. The fact that I'm blunt, the fact that I don't dance around,
00:07the fact that I say the truth as I see it, they relate to that. And they've tested me time and
00:12time again and know that myself and my team are legit. We care. Like, we're going to make a
00:17difference in the VA space, and I'm not retiring until we do.
00:19Hello, everyone. My name is Zeblo. I'm the senior director of the content studio here at HousingWire
00:31at the Final Offer podcast booth at The Gathering. And today I'm joined with LO extraordinaire,
00:38Jennifer Beeston. Jennifer, thank you for joining me. When did you wrap up your session? When was
00:43that? When? Like a couple hours ago? It was a couple hours ago? I've been recording all day,
00:47so I didn't get a chance to sit in on it. Yeah, it was a couple hours ago. Yeah, I got a little spicy.
00:51Did you? I did. I did. I challenged the whole room.
00:54That is in keeping with most of my interactions with you. So for those of you that don't know,
01:02Jennifer has been a contributor with us for, you didn't contribute before I reached out.
01:07You reached out, Seb. You made it happen. Yeah, actually, there was a piece that went out that
01:11I think that you, there was an initial miscommunication on the delivery that you got
01:17the, the, the, the article, but you scoured it. And then that made us want to reach out and ask
01:23you to write for us. Oh yeah. That was a funny way we met, isn't it? Yes. And so, so you did a
01:30session with us. I wanted to talk to you, but you've got some other activities that you're
01:33participating in, which I found quite interesting. Previously, you're going falconing, right?
01:39Yeah. So, um, my son and a couple of people from guaranteed rate, we're going to be, uh,
01:45playing with birds of prey very shortly. So I've, I've dressed, I've, I had to change and
01:50I've dressed appropriately for my, uh, birds of prey session as one does. I don't know if
01:55I taught about it, but that looks like the kind of outfit that someone going falconing.
01:58I mean, I work with real estate agents, so, you know, same deal. All right. So I, I, as,
02:04as long as we've been communicating, kind of working together, I have wanted to ask you
02:08how you got into the VA space specifically, kind of carved out a niche with the, with VA
02:15loans. Can you walk me through that? Yeah. So I didn't start out in VA. So I've been a lender
02:21for 18 years and I was predominantly a local lender in Sonoma County, California. There's not
02:27a lot of veteran business there. I would always do like maybe a million, 2 million. And then about
02:32six years ago, six to seven years ago, I had a client and I quoted them. And then they showed me
02:40what another lender quoted them. And I was like, is this an old quote? No, we just got it today.
02:47It was a percent higher. There was $6,000 higher in fees. And I was like, what is going on? You know,
02:55because as a conventional lender, you don't see spreads like that. That's not normal, you know?
03:01And at the time, Northern California, I'm dealing with some jumbo loans. Like it's a fierce competition.
03:07So I saw this and I was like, what's going on here? And, you know, my dad's former Navy,
03:12but it's never been something we've really talked about. I talked to him about it. I started digging
03:16with the industry, you know, talking to people at guaranteed rate, what is going on? And I started
03:23learning about how there's lenders that step on VA pricing in order to make up for the discounts
03:28that they give jumbo loans or conventional. They're making veterans pay more than they should
03:33so that rich people get discounts. I didn't like that. So I was already doing YouTube at that time.
03:40And, you know, my YouTube journey has been very much what happens and what I think needs to change.
03:49So I started talking about it. I started doing VA Wednesday, every single Wednesday,
03:55I would teach about VA and it started off just being outraged about the pricing and wanting to
04:01make a change there because veterans are known to not shop and the industry takes advantage of them
04:06because of that. So my theory was if I raise my voice at some point, this will stop, but then
04:13it's like a rabbit hole, Zev. You can't escape it. Then I'm like, oh my God, there's so many
04:19misconceptions about VA loans. There was stuff I didn't even know. So I just, every single Wednesday,
04:24educated, educated. Now I have a no stress VA.com. It's a free course. It's for veterans, their spouses,
04:32real estate agents, mortgage lenders, anyone who wants to learn about VA, the blueprints there.
04:37And the military community has embraced me. The fact that I'm blunt, the fact that I don't dance
04:48around, the fact that I say the truth as I see it, they relate to that. And they've tested me time
04:53and time again and know that myself and my team are legit. We care. Like we're going to make a
04:58difference in the VA space and I'm not retiring until we do.
05:01So what do you, for LOs out there, what do you, what, not the biggest misconception, but
05:06sweeping aside the, those with malicious intent, right? LOs that are, that they want to serve
05:15veterans and they want to originate VA loans, you know, well, what is the most important bit of
05:22information that you could share with them? What bit of guidance could you share with them?
05:25Um, I think that like, here's the thing. My dad was in the Navy, but it was limited. Like I was born
05:32after that. You know, I didn't go on my first base until three days ago. I've never been on base. I
05:40went on base. We went on base here in Colorado Springs and it was really interesting to me. And
05:44I think there's this big misconception with VA loans that you need to be a veteran or you need
05:50to understand the military or you have to know how they speak. No, they're just people trying to buy
05:56a house. There's no riddle to it. And it's not a hard loan. You just need to learn your guidelines.
06:02That's it. And if you're going into it going, Oh, well, if I do VA, I can make more because I can
06:07charge more. Just leave. Cause I'm going to take you out. Right. You love how, how embracing I am.
06:14Yes. Well, that's yeah. If you've been saying, come on in, I'll, I'll, you know, go check out the
06:19course. It'll teach you what you need to know and take care of veterans, please. Okay. So you added
06:23that to your YouTube channel, but your, you had a YouTube presence before that. How long have you
06:28been doing your YouTube channel? I probably about seven years now. So VA Wednesday was probably within
06:35the first two years, you know, and like we covered in my session, but I didn't get any calls from
06:42YouTube for the first three years. Um, but there is an audience that's hungry for education. And if
06:49you can give good education, I think you'll always do fine. Right. What led you to start your YouTube
06:55channel? Uh, it's such a multitude of factors, but literally my son was like, you should be on YouTube.
07:01He was, I don't know, probably 10 or 12 at the time, 12. And, uh, he was watching a lot of YouTube.
07:07He was learning how to get into shape from YouTube. So I definitely saw the value. Um,
07:12and at the same time I was sick of real estate agents asking me for money. You know, I was so,
07:18it's like, you do a great job. You close in 10 days. You like, you know, you have a 30 day close,
07:24but you close in nine days and they're like, Oh, but they still want money for Zillow or money for
07:29their marketing. And I was like, what if I just invest my money in myself and my clients?
07:34And that's where we went. When you said that you didn't want to, uh, uh, share your money with,
07:41uh, with realtors, what was it exactly that you said? No, I wouldn't share your money. You didn't
07:45want to give your money to realtors. I didn't want them to shake me down. Yeah. So my pocket
07:48robbed me blind. So one of the most interesting, uh, and well-received articles that you wrote,
07:55actually I had to ask you to write a follow-up for, which was how to say, it was like, just say no,
08:01or how to say no to realtors. Because I think most loan originators, I mean, I certainly was
08:07conditioned whenever I got into the industry is that you, there's a couple of different routes
08:12to, to, to building a referral relationship with realtors. None of them are beneficial really
08:17for the LO until way down the line. But, but even at that inception of, of that, of, of,
08:25of creating that relationship, it's still kind of very much a one-way street. And so one of the,
08:30I mean, one, you can find a realtor that is relatively new themselves and then you educate
08:34them and they rely on you for basically every, I mean, in many regards for their half of the job.
08:42And look, they'll leave you if some lender comes along and says they'll pay $2,000 for Zillow.
08:47Sure. And then the other is if, is a, finding an established realtor and then they just give
08:53you part of my language, just to shit loans. Yeah. Right. And then, uh, but you're at their
08:57every beck and call and even the realtors that you bring up, right. Or the, that you start when,
09:03when they're new into the industry, like you said, they'll still leave you. And there's always that
09:06fear that they will leave you if you say no, right. Or if you don't return a call fast enough,
09:12or if you displease them. And so your article was like basically how to say no to realtors and,
09:17and, and, and put yourself in at least in a position of like 50, 50 equity in a relationship.
09:22I think our industry is confused as to who the client is. And I've seen it get worse over the
09:27last 18 years. LOs coming into the business now are taught real estate agents are your clients. No,
09:35they're not. The people getting the loan are your clients. And if you want to have a good long-term
09:39business, look, be nice to real estate agents. If you meet one, that's really good at their job,
09:44embrace them, help them as much as you can. Don't go into debt doing it, but you know,
09:49encourage them, but you can go get clients just as easily as they can. And that's the big disconnect
09:56is it's like, look, I've met a lot of LOs. We're not all hobgoblins that need to be hidden from the
10:02public. Like if a real estate agent is going to networking events in the community or, you know,
10:08however, the real estate agents getting their business, you do that. And then you get the
10:13leads and you can determine what real estate agent it goes to. Just don't be a scumbag and try to pick
10:19the realtor's pocket. Where in your, I guess, journey as a loan originator, did you make that
10:25decision? I mean, did you go in? Cause that's just not advice. I mean, obviously it's worked out
10:29fantastically for you, but that is not advice or guidance that is normally given to a loan originator
10:34when they're getting into the industry. No, I mean, look, when you start out,
10:39let's see here. I started out in 2000, end of 2007. Okay. So I grew up in the foreclosure days.
10:46My business was built on going to those foreclosure houses, saying if they'd be financeable,
10:53giving value. In terms of paying for real estate agent stuff, I was never,
10:58I was never into that. I had one real estate agent that was my biggest agent. And we grew up
11:07together in the business. Like we had done everything together. And then at some point he
11:11came to me and he's like, Jen, I need you to pay this to still work with me. And I had this moment
11:18where I'm like, bro, I close all of your deals really fast, but you want me to pay to work with
11:24you. The only way I can do that is if I increase my rates, they're my client, not going to do it.
11:31So I think loan officers, instead of like, just develop your own business, stop counting on
11:37realtors to go get the business, go get it yourself. You have the same power. It's easier to get a client
11:41than it is to get a real estate agent. Like I strongly believe that. And look, an established
11:48real estate agent, if I was one, would I want to work with a brand new loan officer? Oh my God,
11:53no, no way. So that's not super realistic. And then it's like, you've got the new agents,
11:58but you're both learning at the same time. Learn your stuff, go for the clients direct.
12:03That is the future. The future, you know, we'll see what happens with Zillow and Rocket. And
12:08it'll be interesting to see how Compass and everybody fights back.
12:12Well, this actually leads to two parts or two paths, really. And I know we got limited time. So I'm
12:18trying to figure out which one to go down. But let's, when you said, you know, build a business
12:24and go to your clients or customers directly. Yeah. So that is all dependent upon you being
12:34authentic, you being genuine, because you're developing real relationships, right? And then,
12:38and especially in this context, it's like a lifelong relationship, because you can go back for their,
12:43for a refinance or a multitude of reasons. So how do you now getting into the industry or in LOs that
12:52have not adopted like the social media influencer type are being pushed into, into that, right? You've
12:58got a bit of a legacy. You've been online for, you know, YouTube presence or so, and you've built
13:03out consumer education beyond just mortgages, right? So, but you and I have had conversations where,
13:10you know, kind of pushing against the idea for a new LO or people that aren't maybe built for a
13:19social media presence or built for a YouTube. Not everybody has to have one of those. So how do
13:24you recommend, how do you recommend people kind of navigate? It could be new LOs or LOs that have
13:30been in the game for, for a while, but there is a new wave coming, right? There's a, the, the modern
13:35loan originator. How do they bridge this? Like I need to be authentic and be, be genuine, go get new
13:41business. But then the push for the social media influencer type, uh, box that not everybody is
13:48made. Can we just be honest about social media? Like, here's the thing. There's a lot of people
13:56on social media where they get a lot of views and they get a lot of followers, but you look at their
14:01numbers and they're not converting. Social media is not the Holy grail. Okay. The way that I've built
14:08my business, I convert, but that's because before I even started social media, I was a 50 to $70
14:15million producer. Like I knew what I was doing and I knew what I was talking about. The problem right
14:21now is these baby LOs are getting on social. They're talking about stuff. They don't know if they start
14:27getting an influx of calls. Like I've had people say, Oh, I reached out to XYZ. They never called
14:31me back. They didn't know this. They didn't know that. I would say, learn your guides and find your
14:37people. So like, uh, you and I were talking the other day about Matt Weaver, right? Totally different
14:42business model than mine. Like he's in person, he's doing lectures. I think that, you know, for new
14:48loan officers, I think it's valuable to find someone who's established in the field. Like, look,
14:53Sean does business different than I do different than Matt does. Yeah. Everybody's doing well. Ben
14:59Cohen does a business different than everybody else. So figure out who the person you're most like
15:06and look at what their business is. Everybody's pretty darn transparent these days. I think
15:10what made you decide to start branching out from just mortgage specific education to
15:17consumer financial advice at like large, where did that come from?
15:23So look, I came out of college with no financial education and I've covered that before. Like,
15:29you know, the reason I'm so passionate about what I do is because I ended up house poor,
15:33you know? And then when I became a lender, I was like, why doesn't everybody know this?
15:37And you look at people's, uh, debt loads and their bank statements and their pay stubs,
15:43and you do it for so long, you start to notice patterns. Right. And I wrote brain hacked,
15:48which is my book about how big tech is training people to spend because as an early social media
15:54adapter, I watched it. So I started moving more into finance as well, because look,
16:01mortgage lenders, I don't even know how this hasn't like happened before, but we have a front
16:07seat to America's finances. Our whole job is talking about how they spend money, what the thinking is
16:15behind it. And our job is to help them alter it so they can reach their goals. So it was just a
16:21natural progression based on the amount of data, conversations, everything I've seen. Like,
16:28I don't know a job that's more in the weeds with Americans day-to-day finances.
16:34Right. Yeah. I used to, uh, but I haven't, obviously I haven't originated in, in many years,
16:39but I used to say that if you give me someone's credit report, if I've been to someone's credit
16:43report and I can tell you who they are, like, I know that person because you can tell everything
16:47through their spending habits, what they choose, their late payments, their loans, and that you can
16:53identify people in, you know, several different categories, types of people, and just, just through
16:58their credit report, if you've read enough of them. And look, I don't judge. Like, as I covered before,
17:02I was that financial mess. So it's like my team and I, the way we have everything structured,
17:08you know, one of the heartbreaking things is if we have a decline, we always call, we go through
17:14what's a plan. Hey, this is what we think you can do. And nine out of 10 times, they say,
17:19you're the only one that called me back. And they applied with 10 lenders.
17:26Like, how are we in that world? And you know what the messed up part is like a couple of those,
17:31once you talk to them and you get through everything, they're not declines, but we're just
17:37in this culture, especially as we move more towards AI, we move more towards mortgage companies
17:42pushing tech, tech, tech. Who's reviewing these apps? Because sometimes you need that human touch
17:49to go, oh, you filled it out like this. That's not right. Let me fix that box.
17:54Right. So what do you think is, what do you think is being, well, I was just thinking about that,
18:00you know, just with automation and speed, efficiency, and what could be lost looking at,
18:05just looking at a credit, just looking at a credit score, and not going through the credit
18:09report, and then just a phone call of like, you're not even doing credit repair, but like, hey,
18:12if you just do this, fix a couple of these things, and then we'll, I'll give you a call back in a
18:17couple of months. Like, I would feel like that's, again, because I'm not doing it anymore, but it
18:23seems like that's being lost to a certain extent. That's a good chunk of my business.
18:26Or inevitably going to be lost. What do you think is the most important factor in the relationship
18:32between a loan originator and their client that is in danger of becoming extinct with this push
18:38for AI automation efficiency? I think that we're going to see more and more lenders try to move
18:46into a transactional relationship. And I think that the ones that do will ultimately perish unless the
18:54whole industry goes that route. People want guidance. People need guidance. Like,
19:00it's just so heartbreaking. You know, that's the thing is that, and look, there's loan officers like
19:06that too, where they're like, oh, they're not ready now. I'm not going to call them back.
19:10Okay, they shouldn't be in the industry either. But I do worry a lot about with systems,
19:17what is being declined or not focused on that could be an approval, pretty short. And look,
19:24I do a lot of VA manual underwrites too. A bad credit score isn't necessarily a bad credit history.
19:30Right.
19:31So I think that a smart, any smart LO boots on the ground is going to be important for the next five
19:37to 10 years. I think helping your clients and caring about your clients is important. And I think you
19:43need to build your business just as a real estate agent would do. They can do it just as well.
19:48They just have to invest in themselves.
19:50I got one last question for you. Where do you see, because if it wasn't for your online presence
19:57and all the media that you do, your social media presence, YouTube chat, the way that you speak
20:04could come across as kind of like a stodgy old timer that doesn't even have a phone. You just have
20:10like a rotary phone or something at your house, but you're not at all. You're very much engaged and
20:14you have an online presence. And so I think you'd be the perfect person to ask, where do you see
20:19AI's role? Because that's what everybody is. Everybody is talking about it. And the majority
20:24of the time it's all sunshine and roses and it's not, you know, but everything has its place and AI
20:33inevitably is going to have its place. It has its place now. Where do you see AI's role fitting into
20:38the day-to-day life of an originator?
20:42Look, the way that I'll be utilizing it, you know, and I'm at rate. Rate's an early adopter of
20:48everything. We're always building our own tech. I think that AI is incredibly useful in automating
20:54tedious tasks. I don't think that AI should be calling your clients. I don't think that AI should
21:01be an assistant that doesn't take bathroom breaks. I think that AI as a tool on the back end is amazing,
21:09but I think that customers deserve real people because like, look, the most powerful calls I have
21:17with clients, it's the pause that they take when they're saying something. It's listening to them
21:24telling me what they're looking for, but hearing something like they say something negative about
21:28the neighborhood three times, you know, is AI going to pick up on that and be like, hey, where do you
21:34actually dream of living? Like, let's game plan that. What do you do for a living? Can we move to a
21:40different city? Like, let's think big. But it'll be, it'll be, I think it's going to be interesting to
21:46see. Like, I think a lot of the lenders that do trigger leads will definitely be trying to deceive
21:54consumers. Um, and I look forward to taking them down. I had to, someone had to do it. I'm so sick
22:03of trigger leads. No, that's an excellent answer. Jennifer, thank you for your time and we'll be in
22:08soon. Sounds good.
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