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00:00All right, welcome everybody and welcome to Inside the Locker Zoom featuring two great
00:07members of the 1993 National League Championship team, the Philadelphia Phillies. We have Mickey
00:13Morandini and Tommy Green and some wonderful folks joining us thanks to our friends at T-Mobile,
00:19your ticket to the Phillies with America's largest 5G network. Now we're going to do this
00:25is when it's basically an open forum. Everybody that's on the chat can ask questions to Mickey
00:30and Tommy. I have some thoughts of my own. We'll talk about the team this year. We'll talk about
00:35their team in the past. So is everybody ready to go? I'm ready. Rock and roll. All right, let's
00:42first start out with getting opinions from the great Tommy and Mickey on this year's team and
00:48where the Phillies stand right now. It's an expanded playoff. It's a weird year, of course,
00:53and the Phillies look good early on at 9-10 and then they slump a little bit and then they come
00:58back. What do you see you guys right now with their future? I mean, I look at it right now. It's about
01:06health. They got to get healthy quick. I mean, but everybody needs to step up and, you know, it's
01:15just like Girardi said, you know, everybody is next up, next in line. We need help. You know,
01:20they got to come in and do the job. People from, you know, they bring him up from the
01:25squad in Lehigh Valley. They got to come in to do the job until we can get some of these
01:33guys back. You know, hopefully we can stay healthy.
01:35Let me ask you about the situation starting pitcher. I mean, you know how valuable that
01:39is and the Phillies looked like they were okay from one to three and then Howard gave
01:43them a little help. So right now, it's a tenuous situation. You got Nola and then you really
01:47don't know what you got. Wheeler's got the fingernail problem. Arietta pulled the hamstring
01:51the other night. Howard's now probably shut down for the rest of the season.
01:56Eppelin has been kind of waning a little bit. Do they have enough starting pitching to get
02:00this thing done?
02:02The way I'm looking at right now, no. You know, unless some of these guys miraculously
02:06get healthy and, you know, but I mean, I was counting on, I thought Arietta was the big
02:11guy, you know, counting because I was already chewing Nola and Wheeler in.
02:17But Arietta was the big guy I thought that needed to step up and be consistent. It had
02:25to be great. You needed to be consistent. That third guy is huge. You know, when you're
02:31talking about giving your team of three guys, you win three out of five all the time, you're
02:36making headway. You know, and that's sort of what we did back in 93. I mean, we'd never
02:41had more than two guys going bad at one time, it seemed like. If we were, the other three
02:46we're dealing with pitching well, then give us a chance to win. And that's what, that's
02:50what bottom line it comes down to. They, people got to come in and, you know, do the job now.
02:56Vince Velasquez, he's got, I mean, he's, to me, I think he's on his last leg a little
03:01bit, you know, because they're giving him chance after chance after chance. It's time
03:05to put up or shut up. Mickey, let me ask you, Tommy, of course, that especially applies
03:11in three starters when they get to a playoff situation. Right now, they don't have three
03:15reliable. Mick, when you look at their offense, they've been able to score some runs. But
03:19lately, the big guys now have kind of shut down a little bit. And we know what's happening
03:24with Maurice Hoskins, whether he might be out for the rest of the season. And Harper is in a
03:28major slump right now. And they're going, like, they're taking them out of the lineup.
03:32They're VH'ing them, the rest of them. When you look at players, you've seen players over
03:37a long period of a season. Does he look like he's hurting right now?
03:41Yeah, I've had that question asked a few times. There may be some health issues with him. I
03:47know he's hit the fence a few times and done some things. I mean, he plays hard, obviously,
03:52and he's been playing every day, but he just doesn't look the same. But he's going to have
03:59to play well if they're going to get into the playoffs. Because, you know, with Hoskins
04:04out, you know, hopefully Riomuto gets back in a day or two. But they need those big guys
04:09in the middle to carry this lineup. And, you know, we need Kingery to start hitting. The
04:15bottom of the order has been pretty good with Haisley and Quinn's had some nice moments.
04:20But we need a healthy and productive Bryce Harper if we're going to move forward with this
04:26team, no question about it.
04:27All right, I welcome all the folks. Also, one, a spot in the Zoom chat. If you guys
04:33have a question, just chime in and the Zoom will pick you up. Let me talk a little bit
04:40about Boehm, Alec Boehm, who he's reluctant to bring up, thinking that maybe he wasn't
04:45ready. But he seems to be a guy who understands how to hit up here. What have both you guys
04:51have seen with Alec Boehm?
04:53I tell you what, I've seen exactly what I needed to see. I mean, the guy's come up and done the
04:56job. I mean, he uses, I mean, he goes to all fields. And he's done an adequate job
05:02defensive-wide. He can move him. He's playing a good job at first replacing Hoskins right
05:07now. But he's showing me he's ready to play. I mean, that's, I didn't know why they hesitated,
05:12you know, to bring him up. Even think about it. Because I thought he was ready to begin
05:16with. He can hit.
05:17Yeah. Mickey, when you look at the way he's hit, you obviously came up from a minor league
05:22background and you had hit major league pitching. What has surprised you most about his ability
05:28to adapt to major league pitching?
05:29Well, I'm very impressed with his calmness. He seems like not very rattled out there, which
05:34is, you know, unlike a rookie. But for a big guy, his swing is very compact. It's very
05:40quick, very short ball. And that's why he's having success. And anytime you have a short
05:46swing and you use the entire field, there's not going to be a lot of weaknesses in your
05:50swing. So I think that's part of the reason Kings can't figure him out and figure out ways
05:54to get him out because he's got such a short swing. He uses the entire field. Occasionally,
06:00he'll show a little pop right now. And, you know, for about a week there, he really carried
06:06this team with some big hits late in the game to win games. So, obviously, he's going to
06:11have to continue to produce the way he's been playing.
06:16Mickey, let me ask you about that short swing because he looks like he's a big strapping
06:20kid who looks like he's got some power. The short swing, they may like to get a little
06:25more home run production out of him. Will he have to change that as he adapts to this
06:30league and change that short swing up a little bit and get more of a power swing?
06:34How can he hit in 320? You know, for me, I'm not as concerned with hitting home runs as
06:39just being an RBI guy and driving in runs. I don't care how you're doing it as long as
06:44you're driving in runs. And, you know, I don't know what he's hitting right now, but
06:47I know for about a week ago, he was in about 430 with guys in scoring positions. So, as long
06:53as he's continuing to do that, I'm going to be honest with you.
06:58Yeah, I got you.
07:00Let me add. I want to add to that as a pitcher on the side of what I look and see as a pitcher
07:06pitching to this guy. And Mickey hit it on the head. That short, compact swing, he can
07:11stay inside of it, use all fields. And I don't think there's nothing that needs to be done
07:18other than he just keeps doing his work and working during the offseason when he gets a
07:23full offseason. And he keeps maturing and getting stronger. That's all he needs. He's
07:28got that big frame to put stuff on. He can put on 10, 15 pounds of muscle and not even
07:34know it. And that's a huge, huge thing. I mean, he's a guy that drives pitchers nuts.
07:41I mean, those guys, I love the guy with a big, powerful swing. Those guys, to me, are
07:45more outs than others. That guy's not an out as much as the other guys are because he's
07:50willing to do the same, compact and short to it. And when he gets a little stronger,
07:53he's going to run into it and it's going to carry. It's going to go.
07:56As a pitcher, obviously, young kids come up, they don't get really a book on them. They
08:01don't get their weaknesses. As a pitcher, what would you attack? What do you think the
08:07rest of the league is looking at to attack him?
08:10Well, I mean, I know the way I went about things a little bit when you had a guy come up
08:15I would always come out early and watch guys if I hadn't seen them, if they were
08:20working, taking extra BP, see what they're working on. With that type of stroke that
08:25he's got, I mean, I'm going to challenge him in and see if he can do it to let him
08:28know. I've got to let him know I'm going to come in. I can come in on him and that
08:34he just can't look in one area to attack me. And I think that's the key to pitching
08:38a little bit. You've got to know how to pitch in. It takes time, you guys, to learn how to
08:45pitch in, I think. And then, I mean, to get these guys to notice things, to get them to
08:50open up the outside part of the plate to let them know they can't have both sides of the
08:54plate. And, you know, it's that cat and mouse. One day, I mean, he's going to struggle a little
08:58bit. As long as you mix your pitches up, that's the way I would attack him. And it's
09:02all about your mistakes. If I throw a ball in a good area where I want to throw it, I got
09:07a chance to get him out. And if he gets a base hit, you tip your hat to him. Now, if you hang
09:11one over the middle plate, you're going to get your running in, backing up bases. You
09:15know, you should get hit. But that's the game of baseball. Sometimes, I mean, I've thrown
09:18balls right down the middle to guys. And I'm asking, how did they miss that guy? I could
09:21hit that. But they did. And they pop it up for a swing and miss it. But that's just, I
09:27mean, that's the nature of the beast.
09:29All right. We have a question from Matthew, who is on the Zoom chat for Mickey or Tommy.
09:34Matt, you want to give you a question live or you want me to read it? Is Matt on the call?
09:39Yeah, there's Matt. Yeah, you can read it. You can read it.
09:42All right. So, Matt's question is, what do you guys, what do you think the Phillies need
09:47to do with Real Muto? And why is this contract situation lingering on?
09:54Well, it lingered on because of COVID for a while. We didn't know if we were going to have
09:59a season and he was going to be a free agent. And we didn't know what was going to happen.
10:05And then all of a sudden, he's hotter than heck. But, you know, you only hit free agency
10:11once pretty much in your career, one big time. This is his opportunity. So, he really has
10:17nothing to gain now. Signing right now. So, he may as well just play it out. Let the bidding
10:23begin. And, you know, the Phillies are probably end up going to have to overpay for him now.
10:29But I can't see them letting him walk. I mean, we see what Sixto's been doing down in Miami.
10:35And we need to have something here, you know, because of the trade. So, they're going to have
10:44to sign him. But I'm sure JT's counting the money up in his head. That's for sure.
10:49Oh, he's definitely driving that Ferrari right now. He's in the driver's seat, as far as that's
10:54concerned. I think. But just, hey, we want that guy to stay healthy. You know, I wanted
10:59to see him play. So, it's like, you know, the little nagging stuff. But COVID affected
11:04a lot of things. I thought they might have, might have could have gotten something, or
11:09trying to do something a little sooner. But, you know, with all this stuff happening, Mickey
11:14hit it on the head with being, you know, they're going to let it play. He's let it play
11:17out and test it, you know.
11:20Let's explore this a little bit. Because, you know, I've been told from some people that
11:23he is pretty perturbed by their lack of wanting to talk about the contract. They really haven't
11:30been talking to his agent at all. And that's not sitting well. Now, I think the Phillies
11:34taking this gamble here, thinking that the money for him as a catcher was not going to be out
11:41there to the extent that he wanted. So, that was a gamble. But now, the landscape has changed
11:47a little bit with the two New York teams. Because you've got the Yankees now, Gary Sanchez flopping
11:51all around down there. And you've got the Mets with this new owner who's a zillionaire.
11:56So, have they played this the wrong way? Because now, his price, if the Phillies are
12:00going to, I mean, they may have to go to $25 million a year to keep this guy.
12:05Well, that's what I heard, Nick. Yeah.
12:08Oh, it's looking that way. And they need catching up in New York. We know that. Especially the
12:14Mets. I mean, their catching has been abysmal. So, I don't know if JT's a New York kind of
12:20guy or not. But, you know, when you're getting paid, you know, $25 million a year, I guess
12:24you can learn to love New York. That's for sure. But, obviously, they're going to way
12:29overpay than what they would have paid him, say, you know, six months ago. That's for sure.
12:34Yeah.
12:34All right. Let's go back in time a little bit. Because, obviously, you guys played for one
12:39of the teams that the city loves and always will brand there and connected with people.
12:45So, the 1993 Phillies, the question I have for both of you guys is, what made you guys
12:53click like you did? And you clicked early that season. It wasn't like it, you know, it came
12:58out of nowhere. You guys, from spring training on, the way you started the season, seemed to
13:04have a special win. Try to explain that to us.
13:07What do you think? Mick, you want to go first with me?
13:09I'm going to bring – I always bring up your story, Tommy, in spring training.
13:13The first – and Tommy tells his story great, but I'll just do it real quickly.
13:17We had a big brawl against the Cardinals. And it really brought the team together, both
13:21pitchers and position players. And we really bonded from that point on. It was a huge brawl,
13:26guys getting thrown at in the head and things like that. And Tommy was on the mound at the time.
13:31So, he obviously can relive it pretty vaguely, or pretty good like it happened
13:38yesterday. Right, Tommy?
13:39Oh, yeah. I remember.
13:43So, give me the details, Tommy. What happened?
13:45All right. Yeah, it was obviously – you know, and the year before, Dave Hollins had
13:53been hit like 40 times or something like that. It was something ridiculous he'd been.
13:57But David doesn't move. He's like the stone man. He's in the box. He ain't moving.
14:02Well, we were facing the out of an Osborne, left-handed pitcher. And Dave's a switch
14:08hitter, so he switches over to the right side. He gets two strikes on him. He's 0-2.
14:14And this is the first time I've ever seen David on his back. I mean, he was on his back.
14:20There's a ball right up here in his ear hole. I mean, his neck. All right.
14:23He had to get out of the way. And he went down on his back. And the first thing I did
14:30was I looked at him right, and Dutch was sitting about a guy – it was a guy in between me
14:34and Dutch. I leaned back and looked at Dutch. He said, first guy. I said, you got it.
14:40And I went out there, and I was getting loose. You know what I said? I didn't even know who
14:45was coming up. It didn't really matter. You know? I mean, you know, I was going to attack
14:50the way I was going to pitch anyway. But it so happened to work out, it worked out to
14:56be the perfect scenario. Who was up to bat? Donovan Osborne, the pitcher.
15:01He's a left-handed batter. Dutch sits on the inside corner, not to be so obvious about it
15:07to the umpire. And gives me – he didn't give me the middle finger, but he sat down to one
15:13the inside. And Donovan was as far away from home play. His toes were in the box. That was it. His
15:22heels were outside the box. He knew – I mean, he wasn't taking a chance, but it didn't matter.
15:27I hit him – I hit him as good as you could possibly hit him. In the right way. I didn't
15:32throw it his head. I hit him right underneath his elbow and hit right in his rib cage right there
15:37and went straight down. The ball didn't leave the batter's box. I threw it as hard as I could
15:41and it got him good. And he walked – he was hurting going down to first and I was
15:49amped up and I walked the next guy. He started walking to second base and he didn't make it
15:55to second base. He crumbled. They had to come get him. They got him off. Put a runner in
16:01for him. I get a double play ball in the strikeout and get out of the inning. And the next time
16:05up, I get up. I'm facing a left-hander. They throw at me four times and missed me all four
16:12times down here in the right – you know, in the good area. And then the next time up,
16:16I faced another left-hander and this guy threw one over my head. And I ducked and I looked
16:22over – I looked over at the dugout where – because during spring training, the coaches
16:26and stuff stood outside the dugout a lot back then. And it was – who was managing?
16:33Sean. Joe Torrey and the pitching coach Red. We called him Old Red. He was – you know,
16:41Old Red Ass is what he was. And I looked at them. I said, if he hits me in my head, I'm
16:47coming there. You better handle it. You know? I mean, I'm a freaking pitcher. I hit their
16:53guy in the right way. You know? The next pitch he threw me, I hit a double off the
16:58freaking wall. And then I pitched seven minutes. Didn't give up any runs. That was
17:03my day to go up to 100 pitches. Interviewing the dugout. Had my back to the field. But
17:08the TV was up in the corner of the dugout in that little – that stadium. And Ricky
17:12Jordan come up and they hit Ricky. Ricky charged the mound. I threw the stuff down. There
17:18we go. Out on the field. And I mean, that's the way that game went and started. But
17:23you know, you hit about, you know, in spring training how this team gelled. And
17:27Mickey could vouch for all the guys that, you know, Lee Thomas and them did a great
17:31job of bringing in some guys that spring. Veteran guys. And we had good – we had a
17:37good mix of young guys there. And obviously veteran guys that were there too. But the
17:44personalities and off the bat, everybody clicked. And that spring training was one of the
17:52best spring training as far as just me gelling together. And I think – and that was just
17:56one of the games that made a difference. I think it was, you know, kind of bonded us
18:00even more. Because we were – I was told flat out by Dave Hollins before that game, you
18:05know, he said, Tommy, you were hurt a little bit last year. Do you want – yeah. I said,
18:09but I got a problem with as many times – many times I got hit last year and nobody
18:13taking up for me. He said, I know I got no issues with you. I knew you were hurt a lot.
18:16But he said, I'm just letting you know, do you want me in your corner or you don't?
18:21And that's all I needed to hear from David Hollins.
18:24I don't want that guy about a foxhole.
18:26It's really funny. You don't hear a lot of the way – that kind of ball today.
18:31But that's what kind of gilded you guys. You guys were all tough guys that cared about
18:38the game playing it the right way and playing it hard. And that was a big edge for you guys.
18:43Yeah, that was – I mean, that was just – it was a great story. Something I think
18:47needed to happen for a lot of us. I mean, it needed for me to happen. I mean, you got
18:51to go out there with a little bit of attitude, you know, and play. And I think that's what
18:55we had a little bit – Atlanta Braves had swagger. They expect they dressed to the part,
19:02you know, they wear the suits on the road. Yeah, they told – I don't think I saw
19:07Williams on the road. He wore – he always carried it over his arm. You know, we had to
19:13story one. You never saw him do things. We had – we had an attitude a little bit.
19:18Nothing bad, but, you know, we're going to play the game hard and the right way.
19:22And if you don't like it, that's all right. We don't beat you on the field. We'll kick
19:25your ass in the parking lot. You know, type attitude.
19:28Mickey, that's just me.
19:31Go ahead.
19:33We had the best clubhouse leader ever in Darren Dalton. Every player in that locker room had
19:39respect for him. And when you have a unity like that, and you can look at a guy like
19:43that to be your leader, I mean, he really brought us together as a team. He really did.
19:49And let's – talk about the offensive part, because, you know, you guys were a very good
19:53offensive team. A lot of people, I think, don't realize how good the pitching staff was
19:57that year. But what made you guys good offensively? You saw a ton of pitches. You wore pitches
20:02out. And it started from the top. I mean, you know, Dykstra would see a lot of pitches.
20:08But all you guys were like that, working counts and getting really good pitches to hit.
20:13Did you kind of glom onto that from all these guys like Kruk and Dykstra and all these guys
20:19that would see a lot of pitches? Is that how it shaped your at-bats also?
20:23I just think that was the philosophy of the team, and that's the type of hitting team we were.
20:28We liked to see pitches. We waited for fastballs up out over the zone. We had four guys walk
20:34over 100 times that year, I believe. And obviously, Lenny had an MVP year.
20:39But, you know, to have a year like we had, you have to have guys have career years.
20:44You know, Lenny had a career year. Dutch had a career year.
20:47Holland's had a career year. Schilling, Tommy had a career year.
20:52Ben Revere had a career year. I mean, we had guys have career years.
20:55But, you know, we won all kind of different ways. We won with homers. We won with speed.
21:00We won with defense. We won with pitching. We did the little things to help teams win.
21:06Yeah, Tommy, 16-4 that year, 3.42 ERA, 200 innings, 167.
21:12Mickey brought up Darren Dalton, Tommy. I know he's near and dear to all of us,
21:16especially here at the radio station doing the show with it all really well.
21:19And I know you have a really special bond with Dutch. Talk about that a little bit,
21:25the major impact he had on your life.
21:27Well, I'll tell you what, I can't explain it, I mean, enough. I can't tell the story enough.
21:32But, I mean, obviously, starting out with baseball, what he did as a professional,
21:38you know, on my professional side of things, for helping me grow and grow up as a pitcher,
21:43he challenged me, being that leader he was in the clubhouse.
21:46And, you know, me and Shield were younger. He challenged us to be better, you know,
21:52each time and try to do. I mean, you can't do nothing about your health a lot of times,
21:57but he made me a better pitcher to understand. I mean, I got a chance to play with Dutch,
22:03you know, when I came over in 92, when my last year was in 95, and it was a pleasure playing with him.
22:10I got to know Dutch more so after my career, obviously, and when he retired and stuff, we got closer,
22:19especially when I, he ended up running into my current wife now, up here near where we live,
22:28at Nebraska Steakhouse, went out at a function.
22:30And the way I tell the story is, my wife, I met my wife now, back in 1986.
22:38She was on spring break from her sinus, and I was in my first spring training.
22:42Her name is Wendy Darling. I was a big Peter Pan guy, Walt Disney, so that helped, I mean,
22:47we all remembered each other. It was 12 girls from her sinus, and a day's in,
22:52and that's where the Braves housed 130 minor league guys, the same hotel. So we met,
22:58so they got, she's got pictures of all us when we were young, and we were 18, 19 years old.
23:04And so that's when we first met, but she run into them at a function up here,
23:08and she went and asked Dutch about me, function, and he told her what was going on in my life,
23:19because I'd just lost my first wife to cancer. And she was, I mean, and it devastated her,
23:24because she knew we were the same age. She knows she must have been younger.
23:28And, but my thought was, you know, when I always tell the story is,
23:33what woman on the face of the planet goes up to Darren Dalton and asks about another dude?
23:40And I'm like, what is that? You know, I told that to my wife. I said, what were you thinking anyway?
23:45And, but no, she'd come back later. And, I mean, you know, Darren, Darren's got this side to him.
23:52I mean, he, I call it a sixth sense a little bit. I called it, that's what I called it.
23:56He saw something in her. He knew where I was at in my life, and she was telling me a little bit about her life.
24:03And, and at the end of the night, she came up, gave the card, said,
24:06you remember me by my maiden name, Wendy Darling. And here, here's my number.
24:11And he, and she touched him and he said, here's my, and he took the card and said, oh, wait a minute.
24:14Took out his phone, wrote my number down, gave it to her. And we don't give out numbers like that.
24:20So, he said, you tell Tommy, you text Tommy, tell him I told you to.
24:24Changed my life. He changed my life that night.
24:27I mean, and in a way I said it before he did, he saved my life, you know,
24:30because I couldn't be happier and in a better place now than I've ever been.
24:34So, that's how he gave my life.
24:36Yeah, great story. We have a question from Chuck for you, Tommy.
24:39And it's, Chuck says, I watched every pitch from you over the years.
24:45And your no-hitter in 1991 against the Expos was amazing to see.
24:49Was that the ultimate highlight of your baseball career?
24:52Or, you know, was there another one that stands out more than that?
24:56Oh, okay.
24:57I get this asked quite a bit.
25:01I'm going to tell you two reasons I'm going to say that.
25:08Ninety-three.
25:09For us to get to the pennant, the path, the whole course of the year was the highlight forever.
25:18I mean, probably the highlight the whole year.
25:21How many things have to go right for you to get that spot?
25:25And that was the last year you had to win your division card after that.
25:30You know, it wasn't no getting in.
25:31You had to win.
25:32And that's what was so special about that year.
25:35But I tell a story about the no-hitter a little bit.
25:39But people don't know because I was in the minor leagues.
25:42But I had three in the minor leagues.
25:44I had two outs, two strikes on the last guy and lost all three of them.
25:47A ball, double-A, triple-A.
25:51So I'd been to the last part and been to that part.
25:53Nothing in the big leagues like that.
25:55But I was happy I got that one there.
25:58But the game that really, I mean, you know, means so much to it was five days later.
26:06I threw the no-hitter.
26:06That was great.
26:07It changes your life.
26:08It changed.
26:08I mean, people remember that.
26:11But five days later, I pitched against the same team in Philly.
26:14They got another look at me.
26:16You know, I give up two hits in the first and one in the sixth.
26:19And I pitched a three-hit shutout.
26:22Three-hit shutout and didn't walk nobody in this.
26:24It was a validation game.
26:26And that meant more to me than, I mean, it was just invalidating things.
26:32I mean, they got four more looks at me, the same lineup,
26:34and they really didn't do nothing.
26:36Guys, let me ask you this question.
26:37It was asked by one of the guys on the Zoom chat.
26:40And it's about Curt Schilling.
26:42You can't find a player that evokes more mixed feelings, I think,
26:45in this town than Curt Schilling because, on one hand,
26:48he was just a killer when you gave him the ball to win a game.
26:51And now, I mean, he's kind of taking his life in a different direction.
26:55He's made a lot of enemies.
26:56So, the question is, was he – the question actually is,
27:01was he as much of an asshole in the locker room as I think he was?
27:07Now, I know him in a different direction.
27:09You guys know him in a different direction.
27:10But when you brought about Darren talking to you and talking to Curt,
27:13he talked to you guys a different way.
27:16What was the dynamic with Schilling in that locker room?
27:20Oh, I mean, being a pitcher, I mean, guys that know me,
27:25if you can't get along with me, you don't get along with nobody.
27:28You know, you just don't want to push me to corner
27:29and push them buttons too often to make me come out of that corner.
27:32But Schilling, me and him had a good relationship.
27:38We were able to talk.
27:40Schilling, if he got out of line or was going the other way,
27:43there was one guy in that clubhouse that got his attention, really, too,
27:47really, if you ask me.
27:49Danny Jackson would get him.
27:51But Dutch would, you know, because, I mean, you look at that team.
27:57We weren't a media-based team.
27:59You know, we didn't go hunting to be out there, you know,
28:03on the radio and go do different things.
28:05We weren't that type.
28:07Now, Schilling was.
28:09And that's where I think it kind of crossed some hairs, you know,
28:14got tangled up a little bit with some of the guys.
28:17You know, they didn't want to run in this trap too much, you know,
28:19because what happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse type thing.
28:23Yeah, Mickey, you probably do.
28:24That's just what I feel in it, you know.
28:26Yeah.
28:27Yeah.
28:29You obviously had a social relationship with him for a lot of years.
28:33So, in a clubhouse, I guess he could be kind of bratty,
28:38and he did absorb a lot more attention than Tommy says the players were willing
28:42to go.
28:44You understand him, right?
28:46What is he?
28:47He's a sarcastic, opinionated person.
28:50But that drove him.
28:52I mean, that's what made him so good was his desire to be great,
28:56his desire to go out there and pitch nine innings and pitch complete games.
29:00And no one watched more video or prepared more for a game or start than Kurt Schilling.
29:08He was on that video every day for hours and hours,
29:13and he knew every pitch that he wanted to throw to every batter in every situation.
29:18And, you know, I know Kurt takes a lot of flack for being a bad teammate,
29:22but I'll tell you what.
29:23He was one hell of a pitcher, and he prepared to be a – you know,
29:27his job was to go out and do exactly what he did.
29:31He was sarcastic in the clubhouse.
29:34Sometimes, yes, he was an ass.
29:36But I'll tell you what, I'll take him on my team anytime.
29:41Oh, yeah.
29:41What was the making?
29:42Did you ever hear what – I can't remember what you – one of the GMs.
29:48It was Ed Wade.
29:49Ed Wade said.
29:50Ed Wade said.
29:51I mean, what was Kurt Schilling.
29:54He said when he pitched, he was a horse, and when he did pitch, he was a horse's ass.
29:58Yes.
29:58That's what he said.
30:00Yeah.
30:02But you're right.
30:02If you're a player behind him, and whether you like him or not,
30:05you knew you were going to get an effort.
30:08You know, that Braves series, for example, when you guys beat the Braves,
30:12he answered the bell.
30:13And so if you're a player, it's kind of a comfort zone to play behind him.
30:18Right, Nick?
30:18Oh, absolutely.
30:19He's fun to watch.
30:21He's fun to play behind him because he spots that 95-mile-an-hour fastball,
30:25the split finger drop, you know, three feet.
30:29He had a nasty slider.
30:31He knew how to pitch inside.
30:32But the one thing he did to perfection is he could paint that outside corn
30:37with the best of them, with the best of them.
30:40Yeah.
30:41Yep.
30:42One of the best big-game pitchers – one of the best big-game pitchers you're ever going to see.
30:46I mean, he's one of those guys you want to have the ball when it's a big game.
30:50I'm going to ask you this question about a manager because we get through various stages here.
30:55And, like, Charlie Manuel was a perfect manager for that particular team in 2008
30:59that won the championship.
31:00Fregosi was probably a perfect manager for his guys in 93.
31:05Tell me why.
31:05Do you see the guys on that team with the different personalities?
31:11Bye.
31:13So what does a manager have to do to read his club?
31:16What was it?
31:17Some of the people – the papers in Atlanta, a bunch of gypsy champs and thieves is what we were.
31:22You know, that's what they said we were.
31:24You know, but he was one of the best that I think with the personality of getting, you know,
31:28to communicate with the different people.
31:30He knew how to do that.
31:31But it was – I mean, I never had a manager like that.
31:35And I played for Bobby, too.
31:37And Bobby – Bobby was good, but Fregosi was the best at that.
31:40And no one being able to get – and get through to his guys to get him to play.
31:46You know?
31:46And how would he do that?
31:48He would just read your personality, whether you needed a kick in the butt or be left alone?
31:53Well, I'll tell you what.
31:54Fregosi was good.
31:55I mean, he was honest.
31:57He was straightforward.
31:58He didn't sugarcoat it, you know.
31:59And his tone, the way he talked to you.
32:02He didn't talk at you.
32:04He talked – he just – you know, he talked with you, you know.
32:07And when he's getting a point across, I know with me, you know, being a younger guy,
32:12he had me – when he first took over, I mean, he was young coming up in there, you know.
32:16And it's about, you know, challenging your young guys to be better sometimes, you know,
32:22not without hurting their feelings too much.
32:24But sometimes you need to be taken up by the collar sometimes.
32:28And I think he had a good core of coaches around him for that too.
32:32One of the guys in particular, I think, what Fregosi did so well,
32:36they had there was John Vukovic.
32:38I miss that.
32:39I miss that.
32:39I miss both of them dearly.
32:41But John really, really made a difference in me.
32:43He helped me grow up to be a man, really, on the baseball field and challenged me.
32:47Because he wasn't going to let me go down that other road.
32:50You think you're – when you're going good, you think you're bigger than the game itself.
32:53He said, that wasn't going to fly with John Vukovic.
32:56And he said, I love you too much with that.
32:58And he said, man, you're going to go to war.
32:59That's what he told me.
33:01He jumped me pretty good.
33:03So, that made – and I love the man for it.
33:05You know, you look back and look at the things that changed you a little bit.
33:08That was one of the – one of the men that changed you, along with Fregosi.
33:12Let's talk about both of your paths to get to that 93 team.
33:15And Mickey came – obviously, he came through the system.
33:18And that really wasn't a system team as much as they – a collection of guys
33:24that Lee Thomas went out and got.
33:25So, when you got up to the Phillies from the minor leagues and you looked at that team,
33:31what was your impression of what was going to happen?
33:34Because 92 was a bad year.
33:36All of a sudden, 93 comes around.
33:38You get these guys.
33:39Nobody has any idea how you guys are going to gel and play.
33:42It turned out everybody had their best season.
33:44They came together.
33:44But when you're coming up through that system –
33:48what kind of nation did you think you were joining, Nick?
33:52One that hadn't won in a while, for sure.
33:55I mean – but, you know, when you're a young player in the minor leagues,
34:00you're just trying to go out and make an impression.
34:03That's your big – your big thing.
34:05You just want to get to the big leagues.
34:06I don't think you're really concerned with, is the team good, is the team bad.
34:11You just want to get to the big leagues and stay there.
34:13And I was pretty fortunate.
34:15I got to the big leagues in just over two years.
34:18And the Phillies had traded Tommy Herr in September and out of the September call-up.
34:23But it was – I loved – you know, I hated the Phillies growing up
34:28because I grew up in Pittsburgh.
34:29I was a huge Pirates fan.
34:31You know how the Phillies went at it in the 70s and 80s.
34:34They couldn't stand each other.
34:35But, you know, I couldn't be happier with this organization.
34:40And for me, the biggest part of this organization was Dave Montgomery.
34:44He had a huge impact on my life.
34:47He still does.
34:48And we miss him every day.
34:50But he really taught me a lot of things about the Philly way
34:53and taught about, you know, giving back to the community, you know,
34:58dealing with the media, all kind of different things.
35:00And this is a great organization because of him.
35:04All right, the people that are on the Zoom chat, if you have a question,
35:07feel free to speak up or you can type your question in.
35:11Tommy, your path to the Phillies that year, kind of interesting
35:14because you were obviously a highly tallied prospect with the Braves.
35:18And you came here kind of on a – after being injured,
35:23and this was a chance to resuscitate your career.
35:26Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you came as a player to be named
35:29in the – when they got Dale Murphy from the Braves.
35:32You came along that year, right?
35:34Am I right about that?
35:35That's what you said.
35:36I was the guy to be named later.
35:37You were the guy to be named later with the acquisition of Dale Murphy.
35:41But you were a highly tallied prospect, if not for the injury.
35:46So you came here.
35:47It was kind of a new lease on life for you as a pitcher here.
35:50How did you put that together?
35:52You were finally healthy, and what turned it around for you?
35:56I'll tell you, it comes from the Braves organization, and I'd like that.
35:59I mean, obviously, the Braves organization is a great organization too.
36:03They draft some good athletes.
36:05I mean, not just in general, but, I mean, pitchers they do draft,
36:09it seems to be they're good athletes, all-around athletes.
36:12You know, they can handle the bat.
36:14They can do the little things and being a National League pitcher.
36:19But you find yourself sometimes – you know, I was drafted out of high school.
36:23I was a first-round pick.
36:24So people sort of mature, I guess, the way I look at it,
36:29I look at it at different rates a little bit.
36:32Physically, I was a man.
36:34Mentally, I was a little maybe slower developing.
36:38And what I needed to do to play at that high level,
36:43you can sometimes see the attitude in me now when I start talking about pitching
36:47and stuff, I didn't have that, you know, at the beginning.
36:51I was more, you know, humble, didn't want to step on nobody's, you know,
36:54shoes or hit anybody type thing.
36:57You know, even though I had a pretty good arm and got drafted where I did,
37:01I had to learn to pitch with that little, you know, vinegar in me.
37:05And it took a little bit to get that.
37:08And when I got it finally, it was – I was on the verge –
37:12you know, I was on the verge of being out, you know, with the Braves.
37:15And that's what sort of happened a little bit.
37:17I read the writing on the wall.
37:19And it changed me.
37:21I was – I mature – it helped me mature.
37:24And also, I got what I needed about that situation to get that little bit of
37:30vinegar in me and use it in the right way.
37:34Not outwardly, but use it, you know, to attack the hitters with
37:39and use that aggression, you know, that I needed to get because I didn't pitch
37:43with that.
37:43So, you hear guys talk about, you know, when they – you know, turning on the switch
37:47and when they crossed the white lines, it was sort of like that a little bit.
37:53You know, because that's what I needed was a little bit of vinegar in me
37:56and pitch like that.
37:58So, when I got traded, it was just at the right time because we – you know,
38:02look at the Braves organization.
38:03We had a boatload of guys.
38:05You know, you had Smoltz and Glavins and Pete Smith and Avery and Merker
38:09and, you know, a lot of guys with great arms, you know,
38:12and along with Zane Smith and stuff that were there at the time that we got the –
38:17you know, that was – I was sort of getting pushed back a little bit
38:20because I wasn't necessarily pitching the greatest.
38:22But I still had, I think, ability.
38:24That's why, you know, sometimes a new lease on life or a change in scenery
38:29is a good thing because I believed I could do it
38:33and the Braves wanted me to pitch one way with a breaking ball
38:36and I felt like I needed to do it another way.
38:39And I finally told them, I'm going to do it my way.
38:41And it wasn't – you know, a month later I was traded.
38:43You know, but it was – but it was the best decision I ever made.
38:47I manned up and I said, I'm going to throw this.
38:50You know, this is the breaking ball I'm going to throw.
38:52And I felt, you know, throwing it between a curveball and a slider,
38:55I wanted to throw a slider because I could throw it behind an account for a strike
38:59and I had just learned it.
39:00So it was getting better.
39:02And I had more confidence in it than I had a curveball I've been trying to throw
39:06for three years or four years.
39:08You know, so I took it upon myself to do that.
39:11And I tell you what, it was the best decision I ever made
39:13because I ended up – my curveball got better from it.
39:15I didn't – you know, because I had another breaking ball.
39:20And, you know, I got a new lease on life.
39:23And my attitude was right when I come over here.
39:25So I got a chance to pitch.
39:27You know, you should get your foot in it.
39:29When they say that door opened, don't let it shut.
39:31Stick your foot in it.
39:32And that's exactly what I did.
39:33All right, we have a couple questions from the people on the Zoom chat here.
39:36Of course, the Zoom chat is courtesy of T-Mobile,
39:40your ticket to the Phillies with America's largest 5G network.
39:44First question from Mike.
39:45Mike, at what point – Mike's asked, at what point did you guys know
39:50that you were going to be a playoff contender in 1993?
39:53You already told the spring training story.
39:54The season started out, and you guys were on a pretty good run,
39:58starting out in Houston.
39:59When – exactly – at what point of the season did you think you guys
40:03were a playoff contender and maybe a World Series contender?
40:06For me, there were two games.
40:08We went out on the West Coast in May, and we played the Padres and Dodgers.
40:12And the last game of the series to get the Padres,
40:15Milt Thompson leaps over the fence to save a grand slam.
40:18We end up winning that game.
40:19And then this night, I dived for a ball up the middle that Sharperson hit.
40:25It kept double up Mike Piazza at second base with Mitch on the hill,
40:29and we win that game.
40:30So it was back-to-back games.
40:31We probably should have lost and ended up winning.
40:35And I think it was like 35-12 or something like that, 35.
40:41I don't even know the exact numbers.
40:42But from that point on, I knew that we had a really good team.
40:45It was going to be a special team because when you're winning games like that,
40:49you know good is happening.
40:52And, you know, the dunking grand slam off of Lee Smith.
40:55Oh, that's amazing.
40:56The Brian Hickerson game against the Giants at home,
40:59and we're down 7-0, and Wes Jamerland hits an absolute P-rod at his face,
41:04and he just sticks his glove up and stabs it, and he stares into the dugout
41:07and slams the ball down in front of us.
41:09And we come back and win that game.
41:11I mean, when you're winning games like that,
41:13you know it's going to be a special season.
41:14So, Tommy, how about you?
41:16When did you feel that that was going to happen?
41:20Oh, man.
41:24Probably after the All-Star break.
41:27I mean, I look back.
41:28I mean, you start in that September push.
41:30There was a series late with the – because I know it's like throwing a no-hitter.
41:35I mean, it's not over to Tushy Sings, man.
41:38You can have two strikes on the last batter, and you can give up a hit.
41:41But there was a series with Montreal, and they were making a run at us.
41:45You know, it was – I can't remember if it was late August or 1st of September.
41:49Mick, I don't know if you remember that.
41:51It was early September.
41:52We had a big game up there like that, a series up in Montreal,
41:57and they were making a push.
41:58They got within like three games or so, I think.
42:01And we had a game up there where – I mean, Mitch ended up coming in late in the game.
42:07I know.
42:08I was starting it.
42:09I started and went into the eighth and had two – I gave up two broken bat hits
42:14with one out and had like a 12-pitching bat against Will Cordero,
42:20and he ended up hitting a three-run homer off of me to make it 5-4.
42:25And it was the loudest place I think I'd ever heard.
42:28You know, it had like 54,000 people in there of all places in Montreal
42:33because they had the top on it.
42:36And it was the loudest place I'd ever heard.
42:39And Mitch come in in the ninth and abruptly does a Mitch – basically a Mitch thing.
42:44Bases loaded.
42:46Bases loaded, nobody out.
42:47Bases loaded, you know, walks – I mean, he gives up a hit, walks a couple –
42:50hits a guy, walks a guy or something like that.
42:53Bases loaded.
42:54It's a pop-up to the infield, strikeout, you know, whatever,
42:58and it gets out of the bases loaded jam.
43:00We win 5-4.
43:01You know, to separate and give us that another game separate.
43:04To me, I mean, because that's the way I look at it.
43:06I didn't count my chicken before the head, but I knew we had a special club.
43:10But I thought that was really there at the end, that push,
43:13that winning a game like that.
43:15But, you know, it's what Mitch did all – I mean, he did a lot in his career.
43:20I mean, not just that year, but in general.
43:23I mean, it was never over.
43:25I mean, it looked like they were going to score to tie it and possibly win it.
43:29But we win anyway.
43:30Mitch had that knack about it, you know.
43:32All right.
43:33So, we have Jeremy on Zoom, speaking of Mitch,
43:36who wants to ask the question that you guys all read,
43:38and we all remember, and it was the horror moment.
43:43So, the question is, what was your reaction when he chose Mitch
43:49to go into that game six in the National League Championship Series?
43:55He'd done it all year.
43:56So, there was no reaction.
43:59That's what got us there.
44:01And that's what we were going to go with.
44:03And, you know, you can look back in the baseball season.
44:09And if Roger Mason stays in that game and gives up a three-run home run,
44:13everybody's going to say, well, how can you not bring in Mitch there?
44:15So, I'm not going to go there.
44:17It is what it is.
44:21He just happened to make a bad pitch.
44:23He made a pitch.
44:24He wanted to go up and away, and it went down and in, and it happened.
44:28So, yeah, I guess the question is, since we all knew he was kind of running
44:35out of, it was like a battery running out of energy at that particular time,
44:39didn't have the same velocity.
44:41And so, I guess the second-guessing comes from, well,
44:45he just wasn't Mitch at that point.
44:47So, I mean, you look at, look at today's game, look at, you know,
44:52look at the pitching staff that they have now, just in a regular year.
44:56They're carrying a 13-man staff, right, Mick?
44:59Yeah, at least.
45:00Back then, we carried 10.
45:03Five starters, five relievers.
45:06You know, so that bullpen, those guys in the bullpen down there,
45:10a lot of times they're getting up.
45:13A lot of more appearances and stuff like that.
45:15Mitch, I mean, it wasn't just Mitch that was running on low fuel, you know,
45:19down there.
45:20But it's not about how good you are when you're at your best.
45:22It's how can you survive and get by when you're not.
45:25It's like your golf game, you know.
45:28I mean, if you hit it down the middle and on the green,
45:30five people in the cup every time, hey, the game's pretty easy.
45:33It's when you do it the other way, can you survive.
45:36It's the same way in baseball.
45:37Yeah, I pretty much do the way you first described it.
45:40Yeah.
45:42It's an easy game.
45:43All right.
45:44So, do we have any – we're good?
45:47All right.
45:47Listen, this has been fun, man.
45:49I love it.
45:50Thanks, you guys.
45:51Thanks to Tommy Green and Mickey Mordini for doing this for us.
45:56And I hope everybody that was on the Zoom chat enjoyed it.
45:59And thanks to our friends at T-Mobile, your ticket to the Philippines,
46:02to America's largest 5G network.
46:04Thanks, guys.
46:04We really appreciate it.
46:05Thanks, Chris.
46:06I enjoyed it.
46:06I enjoyed it.
46:08All right, guys.
46:08Have a good night, everybody.
46:09Have a good night.
46:09Have a good night.
46:09Have a good night.
46:11Have a good night.
46:13Have a good night.
46:13Have a good night.
46:13Have a good night.
46:17Have a good night.
46:17Have a good night.
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