- 9 months ago
Director Rian Johnson talks about his upcoming sequel to "Knives Out", his love for Agatha Christie mysteries, and that small independent Star Wars movie you might remember.
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00:00we're excited to have our next guest back in our studio last time he was here is promoting
00:05knives out this time around uh it's the sequel to that film a knives out mystery titled glass
00:12onion you got a case there we go thank you please welcome ryan johnson our show this morning sorry
00:20i had a last second audible on the song i'm like do we have glass onion from the Beatles we gotta
00:24get that on right now nice to see you ryan that's so it makes me so happy to be back i had such a
00:29good time last time i walked in i was just like ah we're glad you had a good memory yeah pizza all
00:35kinds of stuff so with that song that we we let into that that actually obviously it was as part
00:41of your psyche as you're putting together the movie how how uh how much of a sway did the Beatles
00:45influence have over your decisions in the movie uh it's pretty huge and if any Beatles nuts who
00:50watched the movie you keep your eyes really peeled because we planted a ton of little Beatles easter
00:55yay i tell you what knives out was so sensation i've seen it so many times there's this genre in
01:02particular i i i don't know anyone who can't get amped up for for a a murder mystery with a with a
01:09cast of characters one of them is guilty maybe multiple parties are guilty it's like again it goes
01:15back to my take on horror movies even even bad ones are good you're doing state-of-the-art top level
01:20ones which makes them so fantastic um this has always been a a big love of you of yours genre
01:27wise since the beginning correct yeah this was i mean all of this comes from me having memories of
01:32watching those old agatha christie movies like death on the nile and murder on the orange express
01:37and around the tv with my family watching those and just thinking this is the best thing ever and
01:43wanting to do that but like set it like in the modern world that's kind of the whole premise the great
01:47thing is also and and with the reviews are sensational for the movie by the way um is that
01:54um they the ones that are done right and as you did with knives out they employ humor because the
01:59situation itself lends itself to that and um all the reports back and i watched a number of interviews
02:05with the cast and so on and so forth that uh they really loved that this is a little bit more infused
02:10with humor than perhaps knives out was yeah our philosophy with these movies is we want the audience to be
02:16having such a good time they forget they're supposed to be solving the mystery but you but like with
02:22knives out you kept the meticulous nature of see i and we i think we talked about this last time it's
02:27such a letdown when um there hasn't the architecture of the the plot hasn't really been thought out you
02:34know and sometimes they'll just phone it into last yeah the way everything wrapped up in knives out was
02:38so perfect and so i have to ask you do you do you start with the conclusion and retro write it or how
02:46do you go through the process kind of i have a really weird process i spend the first 80 percent of
02:51writing working in little notebooks just drawing out like almost like architecture like the structure
02:55of the story right so i've got to have the road map in front of me before i sit down the very last
03:00thing i do is i sit down i type out the script at that point i've got the whole thing kind of
03:04planned out like a blueprint in my head how many times from the time that you finish that too
03:08i mean this would seem to be a kind of a hard movie to call an audible on the the set and say
03:15we're going to change it because you have to be surprised really it happens yeah yeah it happens
03:20and on this one in particular there was one thing that was a small thing but the small thing in this
03:24this type of movie becomes a big thing that someone brought up to me and i was like oh dang
03:29yeah was it a continuity no it was like a logic thing with the mystery thing and that happened
03:35and that's your nightmare by the way on the set of these movies is anytime an actor's coming up to
03:38you think this is going to be the question that unravels the entire thing oh my god that's right
03:43that didn't have they i think it's this has the same pleasure as the first one i hope where where
03:48it feels really satisfying at the end because we put a lot of work into making sure the mystery all
03:52holds together excellent who do you turn to when when you're in that that storyboard process when
03:56you're getting this together and eventually you have your you have your your linear path and this
04:00is going to go from a to b um once you have it all written out who do you trust to to go through
04:05that and go make sure that uh that you covered all your bases because no matter how you uh uh you
04:12test things until you beta test it and throw it out there you're like oh my god we didn't think of
04:16that how did i miss that how did i miss that you know yeah i've got i've got a couple of really
04:20good writer friends that are really close to me who aren't going to bs me and so um yeah i got two
04:26friends dan and stacy sheridan they're like the first people i show any script to and a couple
04:30other good buddies and i think that's what you gotta do you gotta show it to friends who aren't
04:33gonna yeah yeah you're actually gonna say yeah this still needs work did they find anything
04:38in this particular one i mean i think it's less about like finding mistakes in the mystery it's more
04:43about this the middle of this is boring okay or i don't really care about this character or it's
04:48story stuff and that again that's kind of the whole thing in this movies is hopefully they work as
04:52just really fun movies right uh first and foremost i wanted to ask as a uh as a fan as a fan of of
05:00actors and what they do when you have an ensemble cast because obviously both of these films have
05:05incredible ensemble cast and you're getting people together that maybe haven't uh they're maybe just
05:11meeting for the first time yet there are these big well-known stars do you sometimes sit back and
05:16just kind of watch that and go watch their personal interactions not the work part but the personal
05:22thing and go wow this is really happening over here well we would i mean we shot the first half
05:26of the movie in greece second half in belgrade in serbia and it was during the delta surge so we were
05:31all really locked down in the hotel together so to blow steam on the weekends we would rent out the
05:36rooftop bar and we would go up there with the whole cast and play murder mystery games oh my god
05:41that'd be awesome we played mafia or some people call it werewolf yeah yeah yeah yeah and so it that was
05:46amazing to watch this cast of actors uh you know who were in this murder mystery all get super drunk
05:52together and play mafia together the dynamics were fascinating who was really good at it you know uh
05:59kate hudson and leslie odom jr took it really seriously yeah but janelle monet she would show i don't know
06:06how she did it she would show up in full costumes like sherlock holmes cape and like fake mustache and
06:11pipe she would have created a detective character and she would stay in character for she was just
06:16amazing so it's like it's like you get a group of actors together to blow off steam they're gonna act
06:21it's wild that that happened this way during uh you know the the delta surge i've heard i'm a massive
06:27bond fan loved uh daniel craig and um you know obviously this is a new series for him a new six
06:33hopefully you know which is the second film i don't want to pressure you uh but um the uh the legend is
06:39is that when you're on set uh and daniel craig is an actor like he was with the bond movies he throws
06:44these parties oh yeah and did that okay leave the legends so how how ornate and how wonderful were
06:53they oh so and so the first day that we were liking because we started in greece you can just imagine
06:58like everyone he invited everyone over to like his the house he was renting right on the ocean for
07:03like a cocktail party it felt like a scene from the bond movie yeah yeah it was incredible it's amazing
07:10yeah so uh no he's i mean it it you know they say that it all comes from the top and i think
07:16daniel being kind of the anchor of all of these casts i think that's a huge part of the reason we've
07:20had such a good time he's so talented the benoit character is so um is so great uh and uh but again
07:27you have all these different high powder you have uh katherine han leslie odom jr dave bautista uh
07:33kate hudson ed norton yeah now ed norton we've heard and i i love ed norton but ed norton
07:38is um is very precise and and likes to give his input to directors that he feels aren't up to the
07:45test i can't imagine he had that situation with you we had the time of our lives oh that's great and
07:51we we were like two kids playing in a sandbox together it's just i i love edward so much he's
07:57so good he's so funny in the movie he's he's playing kind of like a tech billionaire and he
08:02has so much fun with the part just roasting that type of person right right so yeah yeah no we had
08:08a blast man uh and even um daniel craig's choices as an actor in the beginning of the movie you're like
08:13wait a second this isn't the same guy that i remember from knives out and then uh you know you
08:19you sort of start to understand why and it wasn't you know my wife my wife my daughter
08:25my daughter and i were not touching that with me neither me neither my daughter and i were discussing
08:30because we saw the film on on um on monday we were discussing on the way home and that's when i was
08:34able to sort of dissect for her you know like the difference in in the character and it's the same
08:39person but you know you know why those choices were made he's doing everything in it for a reason
08:43that that's part of the fun of this movie not to get ahead of ourselves but it's it's almost made to be
08:47seen a second time more than like there's a lot of stuff that you'll see a second time and realize
08:52oh that's why he's doing this oh that's why that yeah hopefully that's how it's fine uh if you're
08:57just jumping in it's uh director ryan johnson uh who's here and uh it's a glass onion a knives out
09:02mystery that we're talking about the uh show the film is coming out on netflix in december but there
09:08is a screening tonight nice uh it is part of the 31st uh philadelphia film festival uh so you can go to
09:14filmadelphia.org are you doing q a i am gonna do an intro q a i can't i can't wait we had such a
09:20good time at the screening lat with the last one here to the precision of what you were just talking
09:23about here's a review that says another masterful murder mystery from ryan johnson just like his
09:27first film glass onion will warrant multiple viewings as you just said to fully soak in the
09:33wild amount of precision and passion that went into the filmmaking um i mean you obviously make films for
09:38the audiences but it doesn't hurt seeing reviews like that right i mean that's nice the best thing though
09:43and i'm looking for the screen tonight but i'll tell you if you can see this movie in the theater
09:48with a crowd yeah um it's a really fun ride it is and that's the thing murder on the orange express
09:54i remember seeing the original version in the theater yeah you know sean connery with everybody
09:58in that and the audience was dialed in yeah and we were laughing i mean like the the crowd that i was
10:04watching with we were laughing it's not a comedy yeah but it is there are very funny points that aren't
10:10forced i'm like this is this is like legit funny and and just very you know subtle jabs and stuff
10:16that's what you try for you try for humor not from like sticking jokes in it but just because the
10:20situation or the character is yep that's the best yeah you have a very um interesting um uh issue with
10:26this film not an issue i should say it was kind of an honor you have cameos from two giants uh who uh have
10:32since passed it's gotten out in the news so everyone sort of knows and they are angela lansbury and
10:38steven sondheim right two huge wow huge heroes heroes of mine yeah yeah how did you how did you
10:44um successfully orchestrate that we just approached them and i don't it's it's just a tiny little cameo
10:50in the movie it's just like one little really fun moment but um i'm so i mean they're two heroes of
10:54mine i'm grateful they're in it but more than that i'm grateful because when i filmed the cameos with
10:59them i got like you know 10 minutes with each of them and just just the fact that i was able to tell
11:02both of them like what their work meant to me i mean that's yeah but yeah we just reached out i mean
11:06steven sondheim i guess had seen the first one he's a big murder mystery nut and so he was into
11:11it and angela lansbury was so like generous and patient and i came over to her house with my laptop
11:17and it was it was pretty great did she so you we kind of just recorded some stuff and did she have
11:23any idea i mean she had she gotten the script or no i don't think she read the script she there's i
11:28don't want to spoil it but she's well i'll spell what the heck she's in the game she's like playing a
11:32video supposed to be playing a video game okay over in the movie and she's not angela lansbury
11:37was not a gamer she was many things that's a shock that's a shock she's on a call of duty but she was
11:42so sweet she was just like you know what that is not my thing but you just talk me through it and let
11:47me know and she was she was so lovely well you're getting a papal blessing from uh the murder she wrote
11:51uh god yeah yeah exactly so um you were talking about watching the movie again for just to catch things
11:58that maybe you didn't catch the first time and little easter eggs i want to watch it again because
12:02the set was so beautiful i mean just so many aspects of it the glass onion itself was just
12:10gorgeous i i mean and just breathtaking and uh you know so i i would like to do that again i mean just
12:15you know the the um when they sit down for dinner you know that that whole room and you know can you
12:20talk about the set design yeah my so our production designer rick heinrich he did uh the star wars movie
12:25that i made we we worked with him on that that little indie film that little thing that little
12:28thing was in a few theaters uh but the he's he's re he and he did a bunch of movies with tim burden so
12:34he's really good at doing really nuanced artful design but on a huge scale which is kind of what
12:40we needed for this movie because because the lead character is a tech billionaire he's gonna do
12:44everything huge so yeah and there's sort of the and you said the tech billionaires and and so there's
12:49there's a uh uh sort of a light social commentary that that runs its way through it which is you
12:54know and i love as you talk about humor shouldn't be sledgehammered yeah this shouldn't be sledgehammered
12:59as well everyone gets where you're going yeah but at the end of the day it's just a a solid
13:04murder mystery and you know yeah that's just a that's just a crowd pleaser you you mentioned
13:09steven sondheim being a fan has anyone else of of that ilk or that level uh let you know what a fan
13:16they are of of what you're doing with these films well if they are please reach out
13:20you're not going to find him in philly yeah yeah yeah yeah no i yeah yeah no i've gotten some
13:26really nice notes from really some of my heroes any mystery writers that you yourself or uh well
13:31i i mean this all comes from me loving agatha christie but recently i've discovered john dixon
13:36carr if anyone's a mystery nut i'd encourage you to go explore some of his books right he had a great
13:41detective named gideon fell who's a total jerk and really funny so john dixon carr and look him up
13:48very cool for a good mystery you also brought up uh that independent star wars movie that you did
13:52that was in a few theaters and i was i'm curious ryan if you uh watched a she-hulk uh no i haven't
13:58yet a friend of mine wrote on it i've got cute i have so much stuff lined up i haven't watched andor
14:02yet i've got andor piling up i keep hearing it's fantastic it is if you like i cannot wait if you
14:07liked rogue one uh it's just very much in that vein uh but the season finale if and when you watch
14:12she-hulk i heard about this okay so it just it made me think of you and and i it also made me think
14:17like kevin smith and just people essentially being dicks to be dicks about pop culture stuff and and
14:22and i'm you got a ton of it for last jedi i happen to love the movie if you don't i i get it but like
14:27it's it's just interesting it's for me yeah it's new star wars stuff that i'm alive to watch and enjoy
14:33and andor's the same way and mandalorian and and i love the the three movies including the one that you
14:38did so i don't care if you the listener don't like it i liked it you know and so it's just interesting
14:44to me to see how people take it so damn seriously well look i grew up as a star wars fan you know and
14:50i grew up just as a kid the whole deal was you argue with your friends on the playground what you
14:54liked and then like and man i was in my 20s when the prequels come out you want to talk about arguing
15:02so for me it's part of the star wars experience and i think the key is people like different things
15:06people dislike different things that's all a great part of the fan base i think there's a there's a
15:11toxic element that can we can slip in and turn into abuse online and that we gotta we gotta stamp
15:16the hell let me ask you about that yeah should the tact be to not give that oxygen because i'll see
15:21you guys shut it down i'll see promotional like the the they'll put all this effort into getting these
15:27tweets that might not ever have been seen totally big coverage and and to me that's almost seems
15:33antithetical you're actually satisfying the beast by doing that yeah maybe i don't know look i i think
15:39we're all feeling our way through it but i think there's a real feeling right now where because
15:42i'll tell you my experience with the star wars fan base has been so positive yeah and so lovely the
15:48best fans in the world and just so much positivity and so i know what an exception to the rule that
15:55small group yes and i'm not talking about who liked the movie or didn't like the movie i'm talking
15:58about toxic i'm talking about abuse right yeah different different thing so um no and i i think though
16:04all these fan bases are slowly realizing you know what it's not enough to just ignore this stuff
16:09you've got to make it clear to everybody that this is not welcome in our community right and this is
16:16not who we are again we have to shun it and push it out not like or dislike no this is not about what
16:21you know for instance uh you know you know she had taken a ton of abuse and and i wasn't down with
16:28that at all and first of all i love their character but uh yeah um i want to ask about uh what i think
16:34might be the greatest television show of all time and you have a fingerprint on that and that is
16:38breaking bad and you directed three i think of of the best episodes that came out fly uh 51 and ozymandias
16:46so this time one month ago i was in albuquerque and so so these guys allowed me to drive across the
16:52country um and do it in live check-ins on the show and i ended up in albuquerque and i knew that i was
16:57going to drive past walter weiss house i knew that i was going to do that but as i was driving there
17:03i was thinking i wonder if the car wash is actually in albuquerque as well and then i looked to my left
17:09and then there was a car was it and i got the car wash there and it was for me i was so i think that
17:15was the most excited i was for the entire trip was just being in that area because i mean the show was
17:21just i think perfect um how did you end up um directing any of the episodes well vince gilligan
17:29and you know it was it's his show he had seen my first movie brick which was this kind of weird
17:34little indie detective movie um and he liked it he gave me he gave me a call and and so we just stayed
17:39in touch and yeah i've man i felt so lucky to get to be be ride that bus for a couple of stops and you
17:45got two of the episodes in in the final season i still can't believe that i can't believe it i
17:50did i tried not to leave any fingerprints on it i tried to be a thief in the night and just kind of
17:54deliver it you know and uh just tried to get what was on the page that was so good up there on the
17:59screen you know it's it's always interesting uh in that case i think when you're called into something
18:03that has a um you know the legend precedes it um and as a good director and obviously you're a
18:08phenomenal director um you want to come in and serve that plot but also put a little bit of you in it
18:14and finding that balance between both is that difficult not i mean i don't actually i i even
18:20with my own you know i don't you know i don't think it's healthy to sit down and think how do i
18:24get my stamp or my personality right it's gotta all just be about telling the story the best you can
18:29now in doing that it's almost like speak with your speaking voice you have your natural accent
18:33from where you grew up right very naturally your voice is going to come through because it's you
18:37telling it but you don't give any purposeful thought to this is my kind of shot i do or something
18:42it's it's natural it's going to come through anyway you just try and tell the story as best
18:45you can i think yeah one of our i know nick murphy is a massive fan of this as am i looper is i love
18:51the movie you worked with bruce willis um since then we've heard about his health and and issues have
18:56have you had any chance to communicate with him or i haven't i haven't directly no yeah but um god i had
19:02such a good time with he was so sweet and wonderful when we made looper and he just worked so hard on that
19:08part and he's phenomenal when he was doing promotion for it yeah you could see how proud he
19:13was of the movie yeah rightly so he he his performance that movie is so good and i had
19:18such a good time working with him and yeah my heart goes out to his family yeah i'm happy to hear you
19:23talking about how nice these people are yes seriously it was it was great it was great yeah yeah we we
19:29you know we do a little entertainment segment where we you know run through what's going on in hollywood
19:33and it's just littered with stories and and lately of uh people reporting uh you know what a jerk that
19:37person was it was really hard to work with that person 20 years ago and they're finally starting
19:40to to say these things it's refreshing to hear that everybody's having a good time with ryan johnson
19:45there's good people yeah i try and create an environment on my set where you have to really
19:50want to be a jerk to be a jerk i guess is you would you wouldn't suffer it quick though for a long
19:58though right but not it's not like i like you have to have like a heavy fist or something you just i
20:03create an environment where everybody feels good everyone feels so you don't have a writing crop
20:07as you're directing it he actually reminds me of nick murphy yeah quite a bit who's just kind of
20:13this yeah whatever yeah okay everybody good we're good oh man yeah good good good that's what he yeah
20:18yeah yeah good good good yeah uh yeah be nice be kind work together until it's time to not be nice
20:27is uh joseph gordon levitt awesome because i love him as an actor so it's funny we we've you know we've
20:33stayed really good friends since looper and i always find a way to work him in in glass onion
20:37he's got a little like voice thing that he does he's the hourly dong this one he's dong he's dong
20:44nothing to you now you have to see the movie just figure out what we're talking about
20:47oh my god that's great yeah but i just i'm making my first tv show actually i'm making this show with
20:52natasha leone oh oh she's great it's coming out of getting him next year it's kind of like a uh
20:57uh rockford files colombo like case of the week like her solving crime i love those sunday night
21:04mystery movies you'd have colombo rock uh uh um um magnum pi rockford files oh kojak uh who was
21:12the millen and mccmillan and wife mcleod uh who was basically a coogan's bluff that character there
21:17was a slew of a ton of them and they were cranking out let me ask you this my wife and i and i think
21:23i i can bring your expertise to this conversation like a fight that you had with your okay i i can
21:33i state for the record that um uh that uh colombo mysteries for me the big joy is you know who did it
21:42you know you know the trick is watching him ensnare yeah she says she prefers the ones where you don't
21:50know who did it and there were some of those yeah until the end yeah do you acclaimed mystery
21:58agree with me or my wife i'm making both because the movies are you don't know who did that like
22:03glass onion and knives out the show i'm making is the colombo style of how did it where we show the
22:08killer at the beginning and it's about natasha and that for a tv show i like because that means you
22:13don't have to spend your time getting to know a slew of suspects you can concentrate on the relationship
22:18between the detective and the killer and i still i mean look i'm a colombo nut i found it so
22:23satisfying seeing thank you for endorsing my opinion you're both right i take the sides here
22:31where are we going to watch this which uh uh this is going to be on peak poker phase is going to be
22:35on peacock and i don't think there's a date yet but it's the beginning of next year so joseph gordon
22:39levin did that oh so he's in an episode of it that's the other fun thing every episode is like
22:43its own little movie with a guest star who's the killer that's why not in the sunday night mystery
22:49and joe plays one of them in one of the episodes i directed so great so what's natasha leone's
22:54story is she's the is she the detective yeah she's i don't give it too much she's not actually a
22:58copper detective in it it's a little bit like murder she wrote where she's just a person who has
23:03a specific gift where she can tell if people are lying or not poker face and she ends up solving
23:08crimes and then another actor that we all love tim blake nelson oh my god he's in it he's so good
23:13yeah he's great yeah we had a great conversation with him he stopped by and he looked he walked
23:19in the studio like oh a morning show yeah and at by the end of the interview i'll never forget what
23:26he says he goes now don't take this the wrong way he goes but that was surprisingly substantive
23:34and i was like that's a great compliment thank you yeah yeah i love it um with uh with this being
23:41released uh with uh glass onion being released on netflix i i don't know the specifics is it
23:46exclusively uh or is it going to run in theaters we're going to do a special thing in netflix i'm
23:50so happy netflix is doing this um one week on thanksgiving we're going to put it into theaters
23:56and this is the first time they're working with like amc and regal and cinemark and putting it into
24:01those chains so it's going to have a one week run tickets are on tickets on sale now but you can
24:06actually buy your tickets now for thanksgiving we almost as a family almost always end up at a
24:12theater yeah right at right at thanksgiving absolutely and this is i mean and i feel like
24:16i've suddenly turned into a pitch man i'm sorry but this is a great movie i watch with your family
24:20this is true okay yeah no yeah absolutely i mean certainly uh knives out was not anything you know
24:26unless you're hypersensitive it's absolutely a family could watch that oh no i i that's the other
24:31thing because like i said my memories are watching those movies i grew up with with my family right i really
24:35aim with these to give it's pg-13 and it's something that it's you know it's not too intense i think
24:41but yeah but yeah it's made to be watched with the whole family i love this um going back to knives
24:46out uh because i have to bring this up i don't really have to but i want to um how to darmas oh my god
24:57she's yeah she's perfection yeah i don't know if i could ever work with her because i just i wouldn't
25:03be able to i think i would be so worried like i just would want her to like me as a person
25:14don't be creepy don't be creepy don't be creepy um but she just seems um like she's just perfect
25:19she's amazing yeah you know it's wild and she got she so she's this more you know sort of um
25:26awkward person in knives out at with daniel craig and then in the final bond movie she gets to play
25:32that seductress spy kick-ass badass with daniel craig so yeah he's seen multiple sides of her
25:39capabilities who says right now she's playing marilyn monroe yeah yeah yeah it's crazy you um i also saw
25:45on your imdb you got another knives out um sequel coming up well yeah i got to write it you guys got any
25:50ideas but no wait i mean daniel and i we have like we have so much fun doing you can probably
25:59tell we have a lot of fun making these movies and for me what's exciting is you know this movie it's
26:04daniel is the detective but other than that it's a whole new deal new cast new mystery new setting
26:09everything they like a new agatha christie book so it's not a continuation of the last one i mean
26:14that's what's exciting going forward it is yeah will you do so with agatha christie you had hercule
26:19perot you had all the different you know all the different uh characters that populated her books
26:24um uh would would you keep um add additional characters and keep it under the knives out
26:30umbrella as well or i don't think so i mean yeah no to me to me it's not about like creating some
26:35like umbrella or franchise to me it's just movie by movie i just want i just sit down i want to
26:39i want to make a great movie well it's clearly working yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well wonderful well
26:44tonight uh is a screening uh at the philadelphia film festival uh it's at 7 15 you can get all the
26:50details at uh filmadelphia.org uh but we'll look for that release uh coming up in around thanksgiving
26:57and then uh it will be out of netflix in december correct uh yes december on netflix see it in the
27:02theaters well yeah but go see it in the theaters for sure yeah multiple times ryan great to talk to
27:07you again unsurprisingly substance i love it thank you brian johnson
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