- 1 year ago
Should the NFL rename the Lombardi Trophy to the 'Brady
Trophy'? Do you agree with Belichick on this idea
Trophy'? Do you agree with Belichick on this idea
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00:00I wanted to talk, Curtis, because you brought it up,
00:03about Bill Belichick on the Let's Go pod last night.
00:07Yeah, so he was on with Jim Gray.
00:10And Jim Gray is just getting around Bill and Tom.
00:14I don't know who he loves more these days.
00:16But interesting conversation that we
00:18had during They Said It with Ted Johnson,
00:21talking about how much of the credit
00:22goes to the coaching staff.
00:24A very magnanimous Bill Belichick
00:26was on discussing this.
00:27Players win games.
00:28You can't win games without good players.
00:31I don't care who the coach is.
00:32It's impossible.
00:33You can't win without good players.
00:35I found out when I had Taylor and Banks and Harry
00:37Carson, Pepper Johnson, Jim Burtt,
00:40Everson Walls, all those guys, the Giants.
00:42And same thing when we got good at Cleveland
00:45and then at New England.
00:47It's Brady.
00:48It's McGinnis.
00:49It's Fabel.
00:50It's Bruschi.
00:51It's Corey Dillon.
00:52It's Randy Moss.
00:53It's Troy Brown, Lawyer Malloy, Ty Law, Rodney Harrison.
00:57Those are the guys that won the games.
00:59Man, I didn't make any tackles.
01:00I didn't make any kicks.
01:01That was Vinatieri that made that kick in four inches
01:03of snow.
01:04You've got to have good players.
01:06And as a coach, you want to give your players a chance to win.
01:09You want to put them in a position
01:11where if they go out there and play well,
01:13they'll have a chance to win.
01:14That's what Coach Parcells taught me,
01:15is there's always a way to win.
01:16You just got to figure out what it is.
01:18And you have to give the players a chance.
01:19They don't name it the Star Trophy.
01:21It's named the Lombardi Trophy.
01:23Maybe they should name it the Brady Trophy.
01:26He won seven of them.
01:28OK.
01:28All right.
01:30I'd be down with a name change.
01:32I mean, the man already has the, what does he have?
01:34The AFC Championship MVP Trophy.
01:38Tom Brady, was that given to him?
01:40I don't know.
01:41I don't want to say yes or no.
01:42It should be the Super Bowl MVP, maybe?
01:46Because it doesn't Bill Russell.
01:47Isn't Bill Russell the finals MVP?
01:50And then Larry Bird and Magic are, you know, the AFC.
01:53Did I dream that about Tom Brady?
01:56Yeah.
01:57I was like, that's breaking news.
01:58You must be confused with the Bill Russell, Bird, and Magic.
02:00And the All-Star Game MVP is Ted Williams.
02:03Yes.
02:04Bird recently got the Eastern Conference MVP, correct?
02:10I think so.
02:10And Magic Johnson is the Western Conference MVP, I believe.
02:15And then the finals MVP, I believe, is Bill Russell.
02:19Right.
02:20And the NHL gives out the Marshand Award
02:22to the one that had the biggest potential but failed.
02:25Oh my gosh.
02:27So then if you have, yeah, you are.
02:31Oh, maybe I'll do a five-minute press conference about how
02:33we should lose this job.
02:34Jeez.
02:36Anyway, I thought this was great.
02:38I really did.
02:38So then that means players at 90% of it
02:41and then coaches at 10% in the world of Bill?
02:46Yeah, I mean, I think Ted was actually giving Bill more
02:50than he would give any other coach.
02:52I mean, he said, he basically, in that audio
02:54that we played from yesterday's show,
02:57Ted Johnson said that he doesn't give coaches any percentage
03:03of it.
03:04Am I right about that?
03:05I don't want to speak for him, but.
03:06Yeah, he said, basically, he said that with Bill Belichick,
03:10he gives 10%.
03:11Whereas, how many times would you give a coach 2%, 4%, 6%,
03:138% at all?
03:15At all.
03:16So then I guess it would be 45% to Brady?
03:23The other 45% to the others?
03:25And then 10% to Bill?
03:27Right, I would just say that Bill Belichick told Ian O'Connor
03:31that he could win with any top 15 quarterback.
03:34So this is a bit of revisionist history.
03:36But you're throwing me for a loop.
03:38You keep changing.
03:39Like, it's clear the percentages that Ted said.
03:41Yeah, yeah.
03:42Like, you know what they are.
03:43Like, we talked about it 10 times.
03:45But I also said that the.
03:47You keep throwing these weird numbers out.
03:48I can't follow you.
03:49Well, because.
03:50So what are you, Wiggy?
03:51If you had to do it, how would you, Jermaine Wiggins,
03:55allocate the percentages for the Patriots' double dynasty?
03:58We tried this earlier.
03:59But I'm up for trying it again.
04:00I told you.
04:01I feel like, because I've seen plenty
04:04of teams that are talented but don't have the right coaching.
04:07Yeah, but we're just asking about very specific.
04:09We're just asking you, as a part of the dynasty, you.
04:13The only one here that's won a Super Bowl.
04:15As a part of the dynasty, I would say,
04:20that the players on that team, we probably were.
04:26I'll agree with him.
04:29Why is it so difficult?
04:30Because it doesn't.
04:31Because I don't think you can separate.
04:33Who are you afraid of offending?
04:35No, no, I don't think you.
04:35Because I don't think.
04:36I would be afraid of Willie McGinnis.
04:37I don't want to be on that guy's bad side.
04:39No, I don't think you could separate the players
04:41from the coaches putting together a great game
04:43plan for those players.
04:46Well, see, you give way more credit to coaching
04:48than Ted Johnson does.
04:49Yeah, I give more credit to coaching than Ted does.
04:51That's why I said, I feel like, if you're going to say,
04:55it is about having good players.
04:57But we've seen so many teams with good players,
05:02but they don't have the right coaching.
05:04But if you have the right coaching, and you, like,
05:08were we a better team on paper than the Rams?
05:13No.
05:14No, you were not.
05:15But we were a better coach team.
05:18So then you would give coaching more than the players.
05:20That's what I said.
05:21That's the brilliance of, Curtis, cover your ears.
05:24That's the brilliance of Bill Belichick.
05:26And that's what I said when I, when I.
05:28That's why I disagree with Ted Johnson.
05:31So don't I.
05:31He deserves way more than 10% credit for the dynasty.
05:36So how much would you give him?
05:37I would give Bill, like, 50%.
05:39OK.
05:40And then the players would be the other 50%.
05:42And you lump all the, you, and this is understandable.
05:45I think it often gets overlooked because people
05:48say Brady, Brady, Brady, Brady.
05:50Like, you, as a player who was a part of that,
05:53would lump all the players in together.
05:56Yes, especially in the first three dynasties.
06:00The first three, the first three championships.
06:04Because Brady wasn't what Brady became.
06:06Yeah, Brady, Brady.
06:07That team was 5 and 13 without Brady as its quarterback.
06:10I understand that.
06:11But Brady became, would you say Brady carried the Patriots
06:16in the first three Super Bowls?
06:18Yeah, you don't win those Super Bowls without Tom Brady.
06:19I said, did you, do you think?
06:20No, no.
06:21Right.
06:22So in the second.
06:23I mean, the first one, you can't overlook
06:25Ty Law's interception, which he gives credit to Rabel for.
06:29Antoine Smith rushed for like 1,300 yards.
06:32We were a really good running team.
06:34And then when they got Corey Dillon, they were still.
06:36I would say that this.
06:38If you flip the quarterbacks in the Super Bowl
06:40that you lost with the Panthers, who wins?
06:43If you flip the quarterbacks, I would say, I mean,
06:46Brady is a better quarterback than Jake Dillon.
06:48Daylight come, you got a Dillon.
06:49Yeah, he's a better quarterback.
06:51But I think when you look at, when
06:53you look at the first three Super Bowls,
06:55and I was only part of one, and Ty was part of all three,
06:59and we talked to Ty, the first three
07:01were about playing great defense, running the football,
07:05and then having a quarterback that didn't make mistakes.
07:10That didn't make mistakes.
07:12The second three Super Bowls, I would
07:14give Brady more of a credit for that
07:18because he carried those teams.
07:20Yes.
07:21When it comes to the dynasty, Texter points out,
07:24you also give Joe Mazzola 7% credit.
07:28But no, I would love the players in there.
07:29I mean, we have to catch the ball that Tom throws to us.
07:33This is Tim from Hanover.
07:35Hey, Tim.
07:37Hey, good morning, guys.
07:38What's up?
07:39I would give the players 80% of it.
07:42And then the other 20% that's left
07:45goes to the coaching staff, which
07:47would probably get like 15%.
07:50And the other 5% would be the guys pulling the trap down
07:53and acquiring all the new guys that
07:55can make that team happen without one or two parts
07:59missing to get to the Super Bowl.
08:00Yeah, I mean, Wiggy would tell you differently.
08:03And he was actually there and a part of it.
08:06So I-
08:07Ted Johnson would tell you differently.
08:08He was actually there and was a part of it.
08:10True, yes.
08:11Because I just, I look at it, I've
08:13been on plenty of teams where the coaching stunk.
08:18And that affected us because they couldn't come up
08:20with the right game plan.
08:21They weren't putting us in the best possible position
08:24to be successful.
08:25That affected how we performed as a football team.
08:30Even though we might have a lot of talent, excuse me,
08:34if you don't put that talent in the right position as a coach
08:38to come up with a great game plan, it doesn't matter.
08:41And I've seen teams that had talent
08:44and the coaching wasn't great, not do well.
08:46And I've been part of teams where we weren't as talented,
08:50but the coaching was better.
08:52And as players, we bought into that and we performed better.
08:54Let me get Joe quick.
08:56Hey, Joe.
08:58Hi, how you doing?
08:59What's up?
09:01Listen, so Belichick, they want to give them 10% of the credit
09:06that Krafts paid him $25 million a year for 10%.
09:12Number one.
09:14Number two, Brady's the greatest quarterback of all time.
09:19And he won Super Bowls and he should
09:21get all the credit he deserves.
09:22But if he had gotten drafted by Cleveland back then
09:26and spent his career there, does he win six Super Bowls?
09:29I don't know.
09:30He won one in his first year with a new team.
09:32And Bill Belichick has a decade without Joe.
09:35That new team was better than Cleveland was.
09:37The new team was better than Cleveland.
09:39The Bucks hadn't won a playoff game in 15 years.
09:42Yeah, but Brady was already Brady.
09:44I don't care.
09:44And Joe, I would ask you this.
09:46Why did Bill Belichick win one playoff game in 10 years
09:49as a head coach without Tom Brady?
09:50Why?
09:52Because he didn't have a good team.
09:54Oh, who put the team together?
09:57He did.
09:58Who put the Patriots together?
09:59Who drafted Tom Brady?
10:00That would be Bill Belichick in the sixth round of 199.
10:05So he knew what he was doing.
10:06Well, that's a great case.
10:07Oh, yeah, he knew he was the greatest quarterback
10:09and he passed him five times?
10:11Curtis, what percentage do you give Bill Belichick
10:14when it comes to that?
10:15I mean, I think he did a great job.
10:16I probably do 1.8%.
10:19No, I'm being serious.
10:20I would say 20% for Bill Belichick.
10:23I'll double Ted Johnson.
10:25Yeah.
10:25Wow.
10:26See, because what people forget is because Tom Brady became
10:30the greatest quarterback, we view his performances
10:33in a different light.
10:34What Tom Brady did when he came in in 01
10:38was he removed the mistakes.
10:41He eliminated the interception, the back-breaking pick,
10:44the bledsoe patting of the ball, getting focused on one receiver
10:48before getting sacked.
10:50He enabled that team to compete because of his ability
10:54to work within an offense and not
10:56make mistakes on a team that had a great defense.
11:00But if you look at those games and you go back, in hindsight,
11:04we can all say things.
11:05Bill Belichick was on the verge of losing his second job
11:10in his second year, if not for Mo Lewis.
11:13So we can all look back.
11:15And now we have the rest of the NFL
11:17showing us in living color what they think of Bill Belichick.
11:21But going back, you can argue a billion different points.
11:26There are 90% of the coaches who would have
11:29given Drew Bledsoe's job back.
11:31Right.
11:33So if it's not for Bill, you might never
11:36know who the hell Tom Brady is.
11:38Because if Bill doesn't say, you know what,
11:41part of it is Mo Lewis.
11:43If Mo Lewis doesn't have the hit and Bill says,
11:47I'm going with Brady, where like you said, 90% of the coaches
11:51would have went back to Drew.
11:52Who gave Drew Bledsoe $100 million deal?
11:55Not the team, but Curtis.
11:56Well, who was on the team?
11:57Who was the head coach?
11:59Listen.
12:01Was that done before Bill got here?
12:03No.
12:04Parcells drafted him.
12:05I can't really remember.
12:06It was right in the 90, I want to say that was the 2000
12:11season or something like that.
12:13But the point is, because people always have this discussion.
12:17In March of 2001, Bledsoe signed a 10-year $100 million
12:22contract.
12:23Belichick was hired the month before.
12:25Right.
12:25So it was a Kraft thing.
12:27So Kraft gave him that money.
12:29But the thing is.
12:30I love how where we allocate bad decisions to good decisions.
12:33No, but that was definitely a Kraft decision.
12:35But we don't know what Brady would
12:37have been without Belichick.
12:40If he goes to Cleveland.
12:42If he goes to Cleveland.
12:44Tom Brady learned nothing from Bill Belichick.
12:47I think Brady's a great quarterback.
12:48What we've seen is when they're separated, one's great.
12:51The other's out of the league.
12:52Curtis, you cannot do that.
12:53Because when Brady was separated from Belichick,
12:58he had became this god of quarterbacks.
13:02How many Super Bowls did Belichick
13:04win as a head coach before Brady was there?
13:06Let me ask you this question, because the caller
13:08makes a great point.
13:09If he's drafted by the Cleveland Browns,
13:11are we still talking about Tom Brady as is?
13:13No.
13:14I don't agree with you, Courtney.
13:16But I can tell you for a fact that Belichick would never
13:20be known as a great coach.
13:21And listen, I agree that if Bill Belichick doesn't
13:27put Tom Brady in and stick with Tom Brady,
13:30he's probably not the same Bill Belichick.
13:32And I think they both know that.
13:34Wait, wait, can we just finish the Gletzo thing quickly?
13:36They traded first round picks for Bill Belichick
13:39to get him from the Jets to be the head coach of the Patriots.
13:43Bill Parcells and Robert Kraft had a falling out
13:45about shopping for the groceries.
13:47Do we honestly think that Bill Belichick
13:50gets that haul of picks to the Jets, he comes to the Patriots,
13:54and he and Robert Kraft disagree
13:56on the signing of their franchise quarterback
13:58to $100 million deal?
13:59No, no, I don't think they disagree, but I think.
14:01So then don't say it's Kraft.
14:02I don't think he even had any, probably
14:04had very little say in the matter.
14:06He's a month into the job.
14:07Right.
14:07But the whole purpose of his hiring was the fact.
14:09Do you think they just negotiated the deal in a week?
14:12I mean, come on.
14:13What are you talking about, Greg?
14:14They've been talking about the deal for six months?
14:17Right.
14:18Before he was there.
14:19Right.
14:19I don't think it takes six months to negotiate a deal.
14:22I don't think it takes to do a $100 million deal, professor.
14:26Long enough to know, Greg, if you
14:27want to be condescending that Bill Belichick was hired,
14:31there's no way they give that haul to Bill Belichick
14:33if he's not on board with the quarterback.
14:36It's nonsense.
14:37So as the new head coach, Bill could walk in and in a week
14:39be like, we're not doing this deal with Drew Budsoe.
14:41Yes, because the team just gave up all that haul.
14:45Listen, listen, that just sounds dumb.
14:49He wouldn't let Bill get away with not wanting
14:51Mac Jones anymore 30 years into it.
14:54At that point in time, at that point in time,
14:57Bledsoe was known to be one of the best
15:01quarterbacks in the NFL.
15:03So when Bill gets here, he's inheriting a guy
15:08that, in the opinion of the NFL and the owner,
15:11is one of the best quarterbacks in the league.
15:13He was the first overall pick.
15:15Right, and the owner's saying, hey, listen.
15:17I like when I do the high voice.
15:18Yeah, me too.
15:20The owner, Robert Kraft, is making the decision and going,
15:23I'm giving Bledsoe this money.
15:25I don't think he's saying to Bill, Bill,
15:28if you don't agree with it, well, then we won't do it.
15:30Like, Robert Kraft made the decision before Bill got here
15:34to give Bledsoe that money because Bledsoe, at that time,
15:37was a franchise quarterback.
15:38I think in order to only give him 10%,
15:41you have to overlook a lot of things
15:43that he was able to do when it came
15:45to players like Ted Johnson.
15:47You have to not like him.
15:48Or like Rob Nikovich.
15:50Or guys like Wes Welker, who were meh,
15:55or a little above meh elsewhere.
15:57He was meh in Miami.
15:59And became what they became here,
16:03doing a large part to Bill Belichick.
16:04Because Bill, this is why, and this
16:07is why I give credit to Bill.
16:08Because Bill, like a Wes Welker, Bill goes,
16:13I'm going to use you as a slot guy,
16:15and I'm going to use you similar to the way I use Troy Brown
16:17and the way Charlie Weiss and Parcells used Wayne Corbett
16:21when he was with the Jets, and I was there with Wayne Corbett.
16:26Rather than another team going, hey, Wes,
16:29you're going to come here, and you're going
16:30to do what Terrell Owens does.
16:32No.
16:34That's why Bill was able to make guys like Danny Woodhead.
16:38Because he wasn't one of those coaches,
16:39and this is why I give him credit.
16:41He wasn't one of those coaches that said, OK,
16:44you're going to have to fit into what we do.
16:47The new head coach is a great example of it.
16:50Guy was a special teams player before he got there.
16:53Bill says, we're going to take what you do well,
16:56and that's what we're going to use you in that role.
16:59And the development of Mike Vrabel as a player
17:02has no disrespect to the guy, but it has
17:04nothing to do with Tom Brady.
17:05Listen, I think Tom Brady's the greatest
17:07quarterback of all time.
17:08I think he's the GOAT.
17:09I played with him.
17:11I just don't think that if he's drafted by the Cleveland
17:15Browns in the sixth round, he's what we see now.
17:20This is Steven.
17:20Hello, Steven.
17:22Hey, I've been trying to get this beat for a while now.
17:25I got Rob Parker.
17:26I believe that Curtis is the reincarnation of Rob Parker,
17:30except with Belichick.
17:32Because it's like, Belichick's the greatest coach ever.
17:35Tom Brady's the greatest quarterback.
17:36Both can exist.
17:39Great call.
17:42Was Rob Parker, is that a, what reference is that?
17:44He's a guy on Fox Sports who was like,
17:46I'll move to Mexico if the Patriots win.
17:48And then they kept winning, and he never moved.
17:51I mean, the head coach of the Cleveland Browns
17:53was Chris Palmer.
17:55I mean, you think Brady's Brady for playing
17:57for a guy like that when his rep?
17:58Well, Ricky, why don't we just stick with the facts?
18:00If the Patriots continue on that track
18:02and Mo Lewis doesn't hit Drew Bledsoe,
18:03Bill Belichick is fired and likely to be kicked out.
18:05Stop.
18:06Can I finish the sentence?
18:08But you don't listen.
18:09Your dumb ass doesn't listen.
18:11I said.
18:13You see what happens is we get personal, which is OK.
18:15I'm not getting personal.
18:16Dumb ass isn't personal?
18:18No, dumb ass is not a personal thing.
18:19It's like an observation.
18:20It's like, yeah, you're a moron.
18:21One day we'll finish the percentages.
18:23We'll add it up to 100.
18:24No, but if you listen, I said that if what made.
18:29You agreed with the Mo.
18:30Mo Lewis thing.
18:32I said, if Bill didn't put Brady in,
18:34he probably is not what we see.
18:36So I agree with you on him making the decision
18:40to stick with Brady.
18:41We have evidence of Brady.
18:43So we have evidence of Bill without Brady.
18:46One would have been out of a job, a great coordinator.
18:48My point is that Bill made the best decision of his life
18:52to play Brady because Brady worked out for him.
18:55So but Bill, but Brady also was in a great position
19:02because he was drafted by Belichick.
19:05I agree.
19:05You make it sound like.
19:06But let me just finish here.
19:08Did anybody think when the Patriots played the Colts
19:11in week three of the 2001 season
19:13that Tom Brady was entering a great situation?
19:17No.
19:18That was the dregs of the league.
19:20So the notion that he was there and was elevated as opposed
19:24to elevating is rewriting history.
19:26But no, I was there.
19:28That's the point.
19:29You don't understand.
19:29You were five and 13.
19:30I was there.
19:31You had lost to the Bengals and the Jets in week one and two.
19:34I was there.
19:35And let me tell you something.
19:37If Tom Brady gets drafted in the sixth round
19:40by the Cleveland Browns, he is not.
19:43Listen, no, I think he's a great quarterback.
19:45But he's not the same Tom Brady.
19:48Curtis is saying it wouldn't matter who drafted him
19:51because he then goes, look what he did when he went to Tampa.
19:54That's the point that you're upset about.
19:56Yes, because when he goes to Tampa, he's already made.
19:59Yeah, he's already this made.
20:00He's already the GOAT.
20:01He's already a quarterback gone.
20:02He's already been GOATed.
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