Russian president hosts global South leaders in Kazan

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00:00It's 10.30 p.m. here in Paris and time to take a closer look at one of our main

00:04stories this evening.

00:10This is Apropos. Well it's the largest international gathering hosted by

00:16Vladimir Putin since the start of the war in Ukraine. China's Xi Jinping, India's

00:21Narendra Modi and other world leaders have arrived in the Russian city of

00:25Kazan for a summit of the BRICS block of developing economies. The Kremlin is

00:29hoping to turn the three-day event into a rallying point for defying Western

00:34influence in global affairs and to demonstrate the failure of US-led efforts

00:39to isolate Russia over its actions in Ukraine. Emerald Maxwell has more.

00:46Welcoming his professed dear friend Xi Jinping to the 16th annual BRICS summit,

00:52Vladimir Putin said Moscow and Beijing would work towards creating global

00:57security and a just world order. The Chinese leader hailed their country's

01:03ties. The world is undergoing profound changes unseen in a century and the

01:08international situation is becoming chaotic and intertwined but I firmly

01:12believe that the profound friendship between China and Russia from generation

01:15to generation will not change. As this year's host, the Russian leader is eager

01:22to show that he isn't that isolated on the world stage. Heads of state from over

01:2820 countries gathering in the city of Kazan were greeted off the plane with

01:32traditional Russian cakes. The BRICS grouping of Brazil, Russia, India, China

01:37and South Africa has now expanded to include Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran and the

01:42United Arab Emirates. Saudi Arabia has also been invited to join the block

01:47seen as a counterweight to the West. Over the past 15 years of its existence

01:52our BRICS association has created a special role for itself and today many

01:58countries want to join. The summit is the biggest such meeting in Russia since it

02:03ordered troops into Ukraine. India has avoided explicit condemnation of Moscow's

02:08actions while casting itself as a potential peacemaker. South African

02:13President Cyril Ramaphosa, who has also urged an end to the conflict, praised

02:17Moscow as a valued ally and friend in his meeting with Putin. The Russian

02:22president was forced to abandon plans to attend last year's summit in South

02:26Africa after the International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants against him.

02:33For more on the significance of the summit we're joined now by economist

02:37Jean-Francois de Melio, president of the Paris-based Asia Center think tank. Thank

02:42you so much for being with us on the program this evening Jean-Francois.

02:47Firstly the fact that this summit is being held in Russia with the eyes of

02:51the world looking on despite the war in Ukraine, what message does that send to

02:55the rest of the world? Well of course this is a lot of publicity for Vladimir Putin.

03:03Well that was his turn to organize the meeting this year but of course it's

03:09quite a good opportunity to show that he has lots of friends, he can invite lots

03:13of people. You have to remind us so that the Secretary General of the United

03:17Nations will be there on Thursday. So that means that indeed a lot of people

03:23are joining, a lot of people are coming to Kazan. Now what's the substance of it?

03:28The substance, of course, after all the speeches we have heard, is quite shallow

03:32because you don't know really what it leads to. Of course it leads to more talks,

03:38more alliances on certain topics, possibly on the economy, on financial

03:44matters, on monetary matters, but there is nothing really substantial after such

03:50meetings. And Russia, it's really been framing this summit as part of its fight

03:55against the West, helping it to overcome the sanctions imposed over the war in

03:59Ukraine. What exactly are Vladimir Putin's priorities here? Yeah of course

04:05Russia is under sanctions and you have lots of countries which are not under

04:11sanctions and the interesting game is for those countries not to fall into the

04:17trap of being sanctioned as well, just because they are friends to Russia. So

04:23it's a delicate exercise, difficult balance for countries like China for

04:27example, which of course has intention and the ambition to lead this group and

04:33also to remain a good friend or to remain a support entity to Russia. So

04:40there is a balancing act to be made by many countries. And a lot of talk as well

04:45about dollar transactions, BRICS members seeking to speed up ways to reduce the

04:50number of them, mitigating thereby the US ability to use the threat of

04:55sanctions. Do you expect to see anything in terms of what they're planning, in

04:59terms of a new currency? A lot of speculation about that at the last BRICS

05:03summit but it wasn't discussed in the end. Do you think it's going to come up

05:06this time around? Well yeah there are lots of speculation but those countries are

05:14helping speculations if I may, because if you look at them, many of them

05:20starting with India, they all have a foot in one alliance, like for example India

05:26has a foot in the Quad alliance and also another foot in this alliance which is a

05:32BRIC, which is not even an alliance, it's a club, it's an insurance against what

05:36could happen back to those countries but it's all what it is. And is it possible

05:42that if such a currency were to be introduced that it could actually work

05:45on a practical level or would it be the case that it would just be used for

05:50international trade payments? How do you think it would work in practice? Well

05:54it's a very difficult exercise to build. There will be progress on this front,

06:00that's for sure, but once again you have to build a new architecture, an

06:08architecture which still works. If you look at China for example, everyone is

06:14speaking about de-dollarization of China but one has to remember that most of the

06:19foreign reserves of China are in the dollar currency, so on the financial front

06:25that would be very difficult to organise as well. And China of course is one of

06:29Russia's largest trading partners. There were reports a few months back of delays

06:33in transactions between Russia and China because Chinese banks had been

06:38tightening compliance because of those Western sanctions. Has the Kremlin moved

06:43on at all from there? How concerned is it by that? Yeah of course, trade between

06:49China and Russia has ballooned since the start of the Ukraine war, that is for

06:54sure. So the commercial links between the two are very important and in some ways

07:00the two economies are complementary because Russia has the commodities, the

07:07natural resources, and China needs them. Now you also have another balance which

07:13is quite interesting. In spite of this relatively small size of its economy,

07:18Russia has clout in international relations and China has very strong

07:24clout in global economy. However, China's experience in diplomatic relations, its

07:32diplomatic history is quite shallow compared to Russia. China's also trying

07:37to increase its power and influence here though, particularly in Africa, isn't it?

07:42Yes, here again they do have conflicting interests. Russia has made a big push to

07:51Africa. India has as well. You have a very strong historical presence of India

07:57in Africa, but also a new presence of India in Africa. So those countries are

08:03also conflicting or competing rather in Africa in spite of, once again, their

08:09convergence in some topics. And you've mentioned as well India as being a

08:13country one foot in the BRICS club, one foot in the G20. How do you expect or do

08:18you expect anything at all from Narendra Modi following or during this summit?

08:24Well, India has a slogan which is multi-alignment. And Modi, since he has

08:33started, has a big ambition for his country to be a leader in diplomatic

08:38relations, in international relations. So that makes India's position very

08:43specific, very special in this group.

08:45And the BRICS group, it's expanded from its original founding members. Is it

08:51likely to continue to get bigger, do you think? Turkey and Saudi Arabia are also

08:55seeking membership, aren't they?

08:57Well, Saudi Arabia was supposed to join, is supposed to join at one point in time.

09:02Turkey is also a candidate. So that definitely means that the group has a

09:09big reach and a huge potential in terms of image. It goes beyond a region, it

09:17goes beyond a certain type of economy. It reminds us, of course, of non-aligned

09:22countries, which gathered in 1955 in Bandung in Indonesia. But of course, in

09:31spite of this diversity, in spite of the momentum which has created, there is

09:37still a long way to go before it really becomes a strong power in international

09:42relations.

09:43And Jean-Francois, if the BRICS group continues to expand, are there any risks

09:49there? Does it risk perhaps losing its ideological cohesion?

09:53Well, look at what China has tried to do. If we just take another example, China

10:01had this group which used to be called 17 plus 1 in Eastern Europe. And this

10:07group has an ambition to grow and to be bigger and bigger. Now, what happened?

10:14China has lost France in Eastern Europe, has lost Lithuania, has lost Poland, and

10:22is about to lose Czechoslovakia as well. So yes, there is a momentum, there is a

10:27possibility that this group increases, but there are also tensions against such

10:32an increase and such an expansion.

10:35Jean-Francois, we'll have to leave it there for now. But thank you so much for

10:37your time on the programme. That's Jean-Francois de Melio, President of the

10:41Paris-based Asia Centre think tank.

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