Russia, largely excluded from international sports, hosts BRICS Sports Games 2024 in Kazan

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00:00Tens of millions are tuning in to watch the tournament. Russians among them, despite the

00:04fact their team isn't taking part, it is of course banned from FIFA competitions

00:09because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. What you may not know is that Russia is hosting its own

00:15international sporting tournament. Right now, this Sunday, is the final day of the BRICS games in

00:21Kazan, but it's not enticing as many viewers. To discuss it we can welcome Simon Roth, who's a

00:28sports diplomacy expert and associate professor of international politics at the University of

00:33Leeds. Thanks for speaking to France 24. Good morning, pleasure to be here. Morning, so are

00:39Russians simply more interested in the Euros because they love football? Well it seems to me

00:46that the appeal of sport is universal and it's often been the case that politics will trump the

00:52reality of sporting fandom. But on the ground, the fans will watch and consume sport in all sorts

01:00of ways. And the Russians who are tuning in to watch top level sport in the centre of Europe

01:05have also been tuning in to watch the NBA finals. They've also been tuning in to watch the games in

01:12Kazan. So the appeal of sport really is something that we shouldn't underestimate. It's one of the

01:18reasons why politicians throughout the ages, not just at the moment, will utilise sport to be part

01:26of their experience and to shape their own ends. And is this ban on Russia's participation

01:35in everything but friendlies, has had a sort of effect of bitterness on the fans'

01:42appetite to watch or are they still just tuning in and enjoying the tournament regardless?

01:48I think the fans are still interested in sport and the outcomes. They're still going to be

01:52supporting teams and players and the opportunity to watch that high level competition. The

02:00opportunity that sport presents to be used in a political way, you know, the use of boycotts,

02:06the 1980 and 84 Olympic Games, which in themselves gave birth to the World Athletics Championships,

02:13because sport was such a strong driver that even despite these boycotts at a high level,

02:19which were from the then Soviet bloc and the Eastern bloc, the West, they still created

02:26a sporting event that enabled them to compete. And the appeal of competition is something that

02:33we shouldn't underestimate. So I think these are difficult decisions for, in some senses,

02:38for the athletes participating and for the authorities. The IOC, the International Olympic

02:45Committee in Lausanne in Switzerland, is dealing with these issues on a daily basis. And the

02:52compromise outcomes when it comes to Paris 24, independent neutral athletes competing,

02:59this is how these things are reconciled. It's a challenging environment. And the use of sport for

03:06political means is again, something that is not new. Well, let's talk about then that Russian

03:11participation under a neutral banner, or should I should say Russian athletes participating in the

03:16Paris Games. Do you have a take on this? Do you think there is a solution which is preferable

03:20for you? It's obviously a controversial topic. I mean, there's precedence here. Neutral athletes

03:27have competed in recent Olympic Games. Politicians have sought to perhaps exploit that. But we've

03:36also seen it work in terms of the cause of peace. Remember the 2019 Pyeongchang Winter Olympics,

03:42where North Korean and South Korean athletes competed alongside each other. And the opportunity

03:48that there is in Paris to provide some reconciliation to the difficult decisions and

03:54difficult scenarios we see in Ukraine and in the Middle East. Sport has a role to play. It's not

04:01the panacea, it's not going to provide all the solutions. But it's a reason to have a conversation.

04:07And if nothing else, the sort of central tenets of sport diplomacy is about having a conversation,

04:12providing a space for dialogue. And in those circumstances, we have the opportunity,

04:17one that isn't always realised, but we have the opportunity to be able to engage in a diplomatic

04:24practice which can resolve our differences. And tell us a bit more about the the BRICS Games,

04:29then. Athletes from almost 90 countries have taken part, even though some of these nations

04:34don't actually recognise these games. And perhaps, what do these games mean for the

04:38Russian athletes that get to take part? Well, these are games that come with a

04:46heavy dose of political patronage. But then sport has always done that. The BRICS Games provides

04:54opportunities for other participating nations. It's a platform, the sporting, in certain sports,

05:01the sporting level will be very high because of the nature of those competing. Equally,

05:07we shouldn't underestimate how much the alternative, you know, this is a precursor

05:12to the Olympic Games in some athletes' eyes. And the quality of some of the teams that have been

05:19sent, you know, represents that second tier of competition. That's by no means to denigrate any

05:26of the athletes and their endeavours. But simply to say that, you know, one of the functions of,

05:31you know, a major sporting event is to blend that cultural, sporting, political dimension.

05:38And therefore, if you've got 190 countries, then, you know, that's approximately half of the members

05:45of the IOC. So you've got half the level of competitors. And we've just seen the games,

05:53these BRICS Games wrapping up this Sunday. Would you say overall, they've been a success for Russia?

05:59Well, I think in some senses, they're a success if we're talking about them. So, you know,

06:02the fact that they're worthy of discussion, they provide an opportunity to talk about Russia that

06:07isn't talking about the campaign in Ukraine. It provides an opportunity to talk about something

06:14other than Mr. Putin himself. This is an opportunity. And sports, you know, whether

06:22you agree with it or not, provides that space for an alternative dialogue. Now, the impact on

06:28Russian athletes is an opportunity to compete at a high level. And, you know, that's to their

06:35benefit. Whether they're able to take this competition to other spaces, to work in other

06:41ways, we'll wait and see. All right, Simon Roth, thank you very much for taking part

06:47in this discussion on France 24. Thank you. Take care.

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