Sadiq Khan talks theatre with Dylan Jones

Evening Standard

London Mayor Sadiq Khan sits down with London Standard Editor Dylan Jones to talk all things theatre, arts and culture.

Transcript

00:00How has London managed to retain its crown as the theatre capital of the world?

00:04Why is that?

00:05How? Because you mentioned people thinking about leaving,

00:08thankfully in the theatre world they're not.

00:10From the Macintoshes to the Underlord Robbers,

00:13these are people who invest Sonia Friedman in our great theatres.

00:17And one of the points I made to the previous government that frustrated me

00:21is that it realised the impact we have for the good around the country.

00:24Because we subsidise theatre, national theatre,

00:27ballet, royal opera, English National Ballet,

00:31but also the commercial theatre.

00:32And that enables these shows to take place around the country.

00:35The previous government turned the taps off in relation to many of our,

00:39from the Donmar to E&B and so forth,

00:42which caused English National Opera House as well,

00:44which was big, big problems.

00:47And so I'm hoping working with the government,

00:48we can carry on the genius of London again.

00:50The biggest reason we've got the best theatre in the world

00:53is because of the pipeline of artists, the writers.

00:56And so forth.

00:57That pipeline has slowed down, combination of pandemic,

01:00but also the inability of people to,

01:03from ordinary backgrounds, to afford to be freelancers.

01:06Because often, you know this better than I do

01:08because of the friends you've got,

01:09you're often out of work in between jobs.

01:12And so unless you've got, again, banker mum and dad or middle class families,

01:14it's a big risk to take.

01:16During the pandemic we saw many freelancers getting jobs in Tesco's

01:19or other places because they needed to pay their bills

01:21or their mortgage and so forth.

01:23So the great news is those in the commercial theatre

01:26understand the ecosystem,

01:27understand the importance of the pipeline,

01:29and it's really important.

01:30And so I speak often to Americans on Broadway,

01:33not Broadway, and they say,

01:34ours is the best theatre that there is in the globe.

01:37We've got to carry on that pipeline going really important.

01:39Americans never say that.

01:41No, I'm going to Akram Khan's Giselle this week at Sadler's Wells.

01:45I'm really pleased we're moving Sadler's Wells to East Bank,

01:48the new East Bank, right?

01:49Good example of bringing culture to underserved communities.

01:53The BBC is going to move there as well.

01:54V&A is moving there.

01:56You go to other countries around the world, including America.

01:59Theatre is quite far away from ordinary folk, not in London.

02:04What makes a good Londoner?

02:06Oh, good question.

02:10I've always thought, and I talk about this a lot,

02:13something I call the London promise,

02:14which is you work hard, you get a helping hand,

02:16you can achieve anything.

02:18I think what makes a good Londoner is that work ethic,

02:21wanting to do well.

02:22Nobody comes here to sit on their bum.

02:24You want to do well.

02:25Whatever job you do, you want to give your utmost.

02:28But also in London, I think what we do,

02:30which is really remarkable when I visit other parts of the country,

02:33other parts of the world,

02:33is we don't simply tolerate difference.

02:36We respect it, we embrace it, we celebrate it,

02:39which is very different to tolerating difference.

02:41You know, you tolerate a toothache or a backache.

02:43I don't really tolerate it as somebody who's different.

02:45And that's a lovely joy of being a Londoner.

02:50You understand that when it comes to being a Londoner.

02:52You talk about culture, and it is the city's greatest IP, I think.

02:56But what can we do to protect its growth?

02:59Because you've discussed the problem.

03:03Apart from subsidies, which is not likely, not at the moment,

03:08what can we do to protect it?

03:09Oh, lots of things we can do.

03:10Look, park subsidy, we've got to protect our venues,

03:14really important.

03:15So what we've done in our London plan is,

03:17if you're, as a developer, and I work in development,

03:21want to build new homes, and on that piece of land,

03:26there happens to be a theatre or a live music venue,

03:29you're now required, if you want to build homes,

03:32to keep a venue there.

03:34The heritage of our culture sector is sacrosanct.

03:37So that's a new condition we've put into the London plan.

03:39Includes pubs, by the way.

03:41You speak to Ed Sheeran, the number of gigs he played in pubs

03:44before he became famous is remarkable.

03:46He played 100 pub gigs in the year

03:48before he got a record deal.

03:49So we've got to preserve what we have.

03:51Really, really important.

03:52Don't take it for granted that that would have happened,

03:55but for our intervention in the plan.

03:58Secondly, we've got to make sure we give people role models.

04:01You can't be if you can't see it.

04:03We've got to be talking up our Ed Sheerans, our Adeles,

04:06Idries Elbows, and so forth.

04:08Thirdly, we've got to give them a helping hand

04:09in relation to opportunities, whether it's

04:12venues to perform in, or whether it's schools like the Brit,

04:15whether it's one of Keir's passions to make sure

04:17children who can't afford to play an instrument at schools

04:19get to play an instrument at school,

04:20because you never know who the next Idries Elbow is going to be,

04:24who the next Adele is going to be,

04:27who the next Ed Sheeran is going to be.

04:28By giving everyone an opportunity,

04:30free musical instruments, we've got the music fund,

04:34which gives you free tuition.

04:35If you're somebody who's gifted and talented and so forth,

04:37that's really important.

04:38Now, your pipelines are very good,

04:40but you talk about culture and you espouse culture,

04:44and I firmly believe that you believe what you say,

04:46but culture is not part of this government's manifesto.

04:49They've been very quiet on culture.

04:51And if you look at what happened with the likes of Bailey Gifford,

04:54where they were forced to withdraw funding from Hay,

04:57from Cheltenham, from Edinburgh, et cetera, et cetera,

05:00there are only so many Vivian Duffields in this world.

05:02Where is this money going to come from

05:04to support all these small arts institutions?

05:07Okay, I'll come to sponsorship in a second.

05:08And the final part of your answer about culture is,

05:11we've got to celebrate success.

05:12It's a very British thing,

05:14is we talk people down rather than putting them on a pedestal.

05:16We've got to celebrate the successes there are

05:18of people successful in British culture.

05:20One of the projects we had was unpack the credits.

05:23So if you go to the cinema, you have all these credits at the end.

05:27How many people know in our city, across the country,

05:29that actually a successful film requires accountants and carpenters

05:33and costume makers and so forth and so on?

05:35So that's part of the equation as well.

05:37Relation to finance in culture,

05:39there are some things which have got to wash their face,

05:43some things that need to make a profit,

05:45some things that need to be subsidized,

05:47whether it's a taxpayer,

05:49very difficult because of the state of the economy we've inherited,

05:52or the private sector, really important in my view.

05:55There are questions about the sort of sponsorship

05:57that cultural places take money from.

06:03That's really a question for them.

06:04I think it's wrong for me as a politician

06:06to dictate to you who's somebody trying to make ends meet,

06:09trying to build an extension to your gallery and so forth,

06:13what you can and what you can't do.

06:14I think examples, by the way,

06:15of the fashion week holding events in the National Theatre,

06:17in the Tate, in the Cupbox, is great.

06:20Why? Because people around the globe

06:22see these wonderful jewels in our crown.

06:25It brings people in, brings footfall in.

06:27But you speak to Trist at the V&A.

06:30He's got a really good model,

06:32where he's also got some shows, some exhibitions,

06:34where you've got to pay for,

06:36whether it's the current Naomi Campbell show, whatever.

06:42That helps cross-subsidise other parts of the V&A.

06:45You speak to Lloyd Dorfman at the Royal Opera House.

06:48He relies a huge amount on philanthropy, as you know,

06:51as well as patrons paying for theatre prices there.

06:54I am concerned though, and it's been said by actors as well,

06:58the cost of tickets has gone up and up and up.

07:01The reason why it's gone up and up and up, frankly speaking,

07:02is because they've got to make ends meet.

07:04And that's a real source of concern.

07:05So we're working with theatres, by the way,

07:07things like the Monday deal,

07:08and other deals to make sure theatre's accessible

07:11to people from different backgrounds.

07:12I've always instinctively felt that London

07:15is a far more exciting city than New York.

07:18Do you agree?

07:19Absolutely.

07:19I mean, I always tease whenever I see

07:21whether it's Eric Adams or Mike Bloomberg

07:23or Bill de Blasio or Giuliani, I always say,

07:26you know, listen, it must be great

07:28being the mayor of the second-right city in the world.

07:30But also, look, a number of things, you know,

07:33were bigger in terms of population,

07:35were more diverse in terms of not just ethnicity and religion,

07:40but look at our city, it's not just finance,

07:42it's not just higher education,

07:42it's not just culture, it's not just tech,

07:44it's not just life sciences,

07:46it's, you know, think of the languages and so forth.

07:48But also post-pandemic, you know,

07:51say it's not in a sort of jingoistic nationalist way,

07:54our recovery compared to New York's

07:56is, you know, just chalk and cheese.

07:58Many women and some men I know

08:01think you're a sex symbol.

08:02Discuss.

08:04The people you speak to have got great taste.

08:07No, listen, it's obviously very sweet and stuff.

08:10I saw, by the way, brag that you put me

08:14the 48th best-dressed man in GQ of the year.

08:18So yeah, I'm sure that was a mistake.

08:20I'm sure that was a mistake.

08:22I was out of a tiny temper.

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